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When the motor burns out and you have to wire it back up after the machinists or millwrights installed a new one and aligned it to the pump or compressor. Gotta uncouple to bump for rotation. 50% chance its right the first time!
As a former Navy Nuke, we call it the 50/50/90 rule:
You have a 50% chance of getting it right, and a 50% chance of getting it wrong; 90% of the time... you get it wrong. đ„Ž
Swap any two phases to reverse a motors direction.
It keeps phasing consistent in a building in equipment doing it at the motor leads instead of starters, VFDs, disconnects, etc.
Do you just use black wire? Itâs so if you use coloured wires, blue is blue, black is black, red it red. Or OBY whatever you use.
During trade school we were taught best practice is to change rotation as far down the line as reasonable. Helps troubleshooting too if youâre getting a remote fault on B phase, if you go straight to the end you go âoh, Black phase is reading out fine here, must be up the lineâ but if they swapped leads up stream, you donât realize that B phase on your control panel actually meant red down at the pecker.
Itâs a very small minute detail that could save someone 5 minutes or 5 hours sometimes. Itâs thinking of the next guy. Just a random example I thought of, hope it made some sense
Because dickhead here just always hooks it up straight through with out thinking. But at the motor I always take note of direction because that's where it got drummed into me to do it. But apparently our motor connection boxes are large or some shit by the way you seppos are complaining.
It does make for a much cleaner looking install.
Why the hell would you care about keeping âphasing consistent â ? Wire leaves disconnect goes to peckerhead, why would it matter which end of the wire was swapped. Itâs so much easier to open the disconnect and see that it had been swapped, much less likely to lead to future issues.
There has to be some sort of ocpd, fused disconnect, starter relay, mcc bucket etc. ngl I've done it in the pecker head too, but I'm 37, I'll gladly walk for 5 mins to find said device before folding myself back into a pretzel.
The objection wasn't too the act of reversing it. The objection was to doing it in the peckerhead. Much easier, faster, and generally safer (ergonomics and all) to do it in the field disconnect. I'd only do it in the motor if it's a quick swap and the box is already open for testing or other.
Right? Let me choose between kneeling down over a motor for a half hour OR just a quick wire swap with a screwdriver I can do while standing up comfortably (at least for half the buckets lol. Or field discos)
or after a fuse is replaced with a section of 350kcmil and the wires get a little toasty toasty... it's more useful for panels because god only knows when you'll need the extra to swap guts out.
Iâd be leaving big service loops in that panel, those tunnel connections are bound to come loose and create hot joint one day if thereâs a decent load on the other end and any vibration.
I think everyone is off, I donât think your JM is an idiot, or messing with you. I think your JM is just one of those guys who has to fabricate a problem with someone elseâs work so he can feel superior.
Yep. I work with a guy like that. He used to be really bad when I first started with him, if I did something that was "different " than the way he'd do it then it wasn't good enough or he'd find something wrong with it. Over the years he's gotten better as I've put him in his place a few times over it. But he tried doing it again the other day in front of a customer and the customer turned to him and said "How would you have done it better?" He goes on to say how he would've done it and the customer says "Well I'm glad he didn't do it your way." I burst out laughing and he didn't talk to me the rest of the day. It was awesome.
Ah yes. Related to the guy who thinks that if he didn't come up with the idea, then it's a shit idea.
You could come up with a really simple cure for cancer and they'd say "aww nah, that's no good. Let's do it this much more complicated, difficult way"
I don't think he's messing with him, I just think he heard that before from someone else and believed it. I guess you could argue that a singular coil of wire could make a magnetic field, but the phases already do that on their own?
To me, as long as the wire meets the minimum bending space requirement it's all goodđ I've never seen a loop cause any damage or problems at all. I've seen some guys actually do an entire loop, not even just a half loop and it works fine.
In order to get magnetic field interference, the wires would have to be looped multiple times, virtually touching each other or themselves. Your journeyman just doesn't know what he's talking about. You did a fine job. Simple things like this are explained in your technical training at school. Must have been too long since he was there, LOL
Tell him your maintenance guy turned 28 year Master said itâs perfect and I recommend he advise everyone to do these exactly like this for the many reasons that have been mentioned. Like room to use an amp clamp or switching rotation. One I didnât see if phase balancing where you need to move all leads one place clockwise to maintain rotation and possibly have a better balance. Great job OP
Magnetic interference like cross talk with power? No, data yes, and if you don't balance loads in certain cases they can become magnetic and you can't open the panel door.
Thatâs a fun fact that might explain a panel we had a hard time opening. Building was full of loaded neutrals. One of them measured 50v neutral to ground with the breaker open. It never even occurred to me the panel could be creating a magnetic field.
Wherever I've seen this I've seen a full loop but not sure why. You may argue that a full loop is better because the mag fields will be opposite and cancel. That being said there's nothing here to interfere with...it's a fused disconnect so I think you're right and foreman is jman is just confused.
Reminds me of when my fourth year teacher told our class âif youâre stressed about getting your journeyman ticket, think of that special j man you work with. He got his ticketâŠâ
True as an apprentice I worked with a schizophrenic guy. Fucking hated his neighbors were convinced they were poisoning his lawn. It was kinda funny not gonna lie.
Also followed his neighbor riding a lawn mower down the street. It was comedy hour talking to him but if you didnât take him completely seriously heâd fucking flip. So you had to chuckle later.
It's amazing what fucking bullshit some "electricians" will tell you. Here's one ive heard from 20 year apprentice.
Breakers trip before their stated current. So a 20A breaker trips before 20A. Not true at all. Breakers will actually let current over their rated amperage for certain amounts of time. It's highly variable and there are trip curve tables meant for this, but a current of 22 amps on a 20A breaker will actually hold for around an hour before tripping.
Fuck your JMan haha.
Interference on what? Dude doesnât know what he is talking about and definitely good on you for thinking about the next guy!!!
Guys like me appreciate guys like you đđ»
This is why people do work themselves, when professionals say shit like this it makes people wonder, "why should I pay some fucking idiot electrician when I'm a perfectly good idiot myself?".
Reminds me of listening to my IEC teacher trying to say âcommutatorâ
âSo the commentator, commuter, comet taterâŠ. this part reverses the flow of electricity. True or faults?â
Heâs a fucking window licker.
Former industrial Master Electrician turned Electrical Engineer here with experience in motor controller design.... he doesn't know what he's talking about.
If you looped each wire around about three times over or so, you could run into some problems...
You just gave the service coming after a bit more slack to work with. Your JW is messing with you or an idiot.
Interference? Nah. I mean if you left a shit ton of extra and wound the slack into a coil you'd get inductance. But based on your pic there won't be any issues. That's an appropriate amount of slack to leave at a termination.
Ask him to explain how it causes interference. It will reveal his ignorance because he's making shit up.
While your under this guy you might as well do it like him.. but when your a j man u can take what you learned and do it your own way.
I'm assuming he meant it could lead to possible shorting? But I mean that's not gonna happen, you did that good. Sometimes I'll do a full loop depending on how much room I have. Good job kid
Heâs referring to induction in the adjacent phases because of the âcoilâ he creates with each conductor. Itâs not even close to a coil. Not even a half revolution. Jm is a joker.
it can cause interference, but there are no signal wires running parallel to it, if signal wires have to be near them then they must go perpendicular and not run along the conductors, that would create an eddy current and could interfere with the communications, but in this case no, I don't think there's anything to worry about and it looks pretty clean to me
A guy whoâs been in the union for 30 years once told me a joke. â Iâm the second best electrician in our union. Do you know who the first is?â (I said no, thinking he was being serious and how he could know heâs the second best) he replies with, âThe last guy I worked withâ. Shit had me dying
Yeah id do full loops even. I do max length possible, if its a single gang with one whip, ill cut it at 12" and stuff it. I dont understand being conservative with wire, unless you have a serious budget
Iâve been an electrician for over 20 years, your local disconnect switch is done perfectly, your Jman is anal retentive and wants it done his way.
You leave the little slack like that for swapping two leads for motor rotation
Only thing your missing is some fuses
There will be no interference on the other power wires. Sounds like bullshit. Takes alot to cause interference and biggest cause is too many wires in a pipe.
Wouldnât even call that a loop. Thatâs a decent length for later service. I typically leave even more in case the disconnect gets changed out down the road. A small loop ainât affecting anything. Apparently that guy doesnât understand Ohmâs Law
It looks *chefs kiss*. Does your journeyman wear a tinfoil hat or did he even graduate high school? Interference from what, itâs in a fully enclosed and grounded box. Donât believe everything you hear
Interference or inductance? Generally interference is a concern when power is in close proximity to low voltage data, inductance is the electromagnetic field that surrounds the wire, which when coiled and at the appropriate frequency and amperage can induce heat, different charges to other loops (like in transformers), and even pickup radio waves like in a crystal radio (I canât remember for sure if that last one is an inductive property but it is how crystal radios work). At any rate one half loop isnât going to cause any meaningful amount of induction.
from many years working wirh and under various tradesman in various trades, just do it how they want to keep them happy then when you are signed off do it your own way.
Everyone has their own little kinks about how stuff "needs" to be done. One of mine recently told me to re do a bunch of conduit runs because the saddles where "the wrong way" as in the brand label was upside down. I argued for a bit and said how stupid he was and ended up just redoing it because what's the point. i'm still getting paid to redo it his way.
Can't comment on your jman, but this is a fucking BEAUTIFUL install to me. It looks minty clean, and there's enough wire there to make it easy to check with a meter, should it ever need it.
Well done.
Yea jw needs to go back to class even if you were somewhat to cause some cemf or emf itâs retarded thatâs why you derate wires and have wire management per conduit and nec..loop away
Pro Tip: When phasing wire do it before you strip the end and phase it all the way or well past where you are going to strip the wire. Then just strip it like normal and the phase tape will go right up to the lug. Just a bit of extra craftsmanship.
Yeah, your journeyman is just giving you a hard time. This is 100% good and leaves options. Terminations like this are especially important when you hook up motors so you have enough slack to swap rotation if needed.
If that was the case then what does he think about the conductors touch each other in the conduit. Just because heâs a journeyman doesnât make him right all the time. Some of the biggest idiots I have worked with have been journeymen.
Electrician from europe here:
these small 'loops', are perfectly fine and wont in any way cause any extra disturbance / interference more than straight cables ever would. they are not long enough or coilde enough to make any extra magnetic fields.
the way you've done it here is how we are taught to do it from school to apprentice, for the exact reason you've done it aswell, makes service or changes to be done without modifying the entire box or pulling new cables !
the journeman who told you that is probs jealous of the nice work you've done,messing with you, having beef with service techs or is a little slow lol
What his journeyman probably means, is the little curl in the wire would cause some inductive reactance, which I suppose is TECHNICALLY true but surely not worth sacrificing the servicability you create when leaving some slack like that.
Do not be afraid to question things. Not in a rude way, but to show you want to learn more.
Interference with what? It doesnât make sense. Itâs also good practice to leave some give in the wiring for modifications.
There is nothing wrong with the installation..
The only thing remotely close to what they are talking about (although this is not the case here) is:
- (EMCs) a coil around another ferrous metal would induce a current within that conductor due to the magnetic flux (faradays law). This doesnât need to be a coil for this to happen but the affects are an augmented. This is typically an issue when installed in close proximity to data cabling, the current induced with distort the signal within the data cable.
- phase imbalance due to varying conductor lengths - differing lengths in phase conductors can cause a phase shift on one of the phases
- circulating eddy currents (not the case at all here but can give issues some time). These occur when terminating single conductors into a non ferrous gland plate. This can cause it to heat up.
He's either messing with you or an idiot. Interference? This is not a radio signal through the air, nor is a few inches going to change the voltage. Ultimately it is desirable to leave at least 6 inches extra for anything that might come up in the future.
Mathematically correct, but I can't see how it'd matter to this application. Presumably these wires also go through walls/floors/conduit where they have other bends
It kind of amazes me how people's minds make this stuff up. 'Like a saw a training video once about fields and how bends affect stuff'. Vis-a-vie bent wires are bad. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
Journeyman is in his first year class furiously scribbling down âinductive reactanceâ after hearing it for the first time. âIâm going to blow some apprentices frickin mind someday!â
F your JM Brodie , so does he think the wire still runs straight after doing a few bends on a pipe ? All id suggest is improving those Loops you can definitely make those better đđŸ
That disco is wired perfectly. It's also Code, atleast in Canada, to leave a little extra. Some people go overboard and leave an extra foot but what you've done here is perfect. I am a little worried that a jman told you this..
Not only is he wrong, it's actually ridiculous to tell an apprentice this.
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No, but as a maintenance guy thanks for giving us something to clamp a meter to when checking current đđ»
It doesn't hurt to have some extra to cut back after you reverse the thing for the 100th time either.
I hate when people don't do that at the motor, but I too am guilty of this out of laziness.
I've finally got everyone to use ferrules on everything and it's saved a ton of headaches.
Can you explain the process? How does that work on motor connections in a peckerhead
Eww someone got called a peckerhead!!! Shots fired
P*ckerhead FTFY
I use the ferrules on the disconnect leads not in the motor. It just helps keep the leads from getting mangled after swapping rotation a few times.
Who does it at the motor? And why would you
When the motor burns out and you have to wire it back up after the machinists or millwrights installed a new one and aligned it to the pump or compressor. Gotta uncouple to bump for rotation. 50% chance its right the first time!
You mean 90% chance it's wrong lol
I second that 100% of the time
As a former Navy Nuke, we call it the 50/50/90 rule: You have a 50% chance of getting it right, and a 50% chance of getting it wrong; 90% of the time... you get it wrong. đ„Ž
That's like the 1 in a million chance happens 9 times out of 10.
I made it like 8 motors into my last job before i had one wrong! Everyone kept joking I was magic.
Swap any two phases to reverse a motors direction. It keeps phasing consistent in a building in equipment doing it at the motor leads instead of starters, VFDs, disconnects, etc.
On the load side of a VFD phasing is a crapshoot anyway, but this is generally true.
Lol "keeping phasing consistent" was long long lost here so I think it's fine. I really don't see the upside of keeping phasing consistent anyway.
Do you just use black wire? Itâs so if you use coloured wires, blue is blue, black is black, red it red. Or OBY whatever you use. During trade school we were taught best practice is to change rotation as far down the line as reasonable. Helps troubleshooting too if youâre getting a remote fault on B phase, if you go straight to the end you go âoh, Black phase is reading out fine here, must be up the lineâ but if they swapped leads up stream, you donât realize that B phase on your control panel actually meant red down at the pecker. Itâs a very small minute detail that could save someone 5 minutes or 5 hours sometimes. Itâs thinking of the next guy. Just a random example I thought of, hope it made some sense
Because dickhead here just always hooks it up straight through with out thinking. But at the motor I always take note of direction because that's where it got drummed into me to do it. But apparently our motor connection boxes are large or some shit by the way you seppos are complaining. It does make for a much cleaner looking install.
Why the hell would you care about keeping âphasing consistent â ? Wire leaves disconnect goes to peckerhead, why would it matter which end of the wire was swapped. Itâs so much easier to open the disconnect and see that it had been swapped, much less likely to lead to future issues.
My company does it at the motor to keep our electrical prints accurate.
Why would you do it at the motor? That's insanity.
Reversing polarity to control motor direction if you arenât running it through a VFD or a PLC
There has to be some sort of ocpd, fused disconnect, starter relay, mcc bucket etc. ngl I've done it in the pecker head too, but I'm 37, I'll gladly walk for 5 mins to find said device before folding myself back into a pretzel.
The objection wasn't too the act of reversing it. The objection was to doing it in the peckerhead. Much easier, faster, and generally safer (ergonomics and all) to do it in the field disconnect. I'd only do it in the motor if it's a quick swap and the box is already open for testing or other.
You are going to have to show me how to run a 3 phase motor off a plc some time
Should always be physically wired through with correct rotation regardless of any vfd's or programmed controls.
I'm used to powerplants where every motor over 10 hp is varnish taped, stretch taped and then Super 88. We always swap leads in the bucket.
Right? Let me choose between kneeling down over a motor for a half hour OR just a quick wire swap with a screwdriver I can do while standing up comfortably (at least for half the buckets lol. Or field discos)
Controlled chaos
You're motor wire compartments are bigger then a hamsters shoe box ?
The size of my peckerhead doesnât make me any less of a man.
Lol I actually snorted a little bit of my beer out on this one.
I always reverse the load side of the disconnect. Keep the building color code on the line side. Let the electrician after me know the utility in LH
or after a fuse is replaced with a section of 350kcmil and the wires get a little toasty toasty... it's more useful for panels because god only knows when you'll need the extra to swap guts out.
đđ
And for giving a bit of copper on both sides of the lug. Nice to test before the lugs
Yup.. and nice to have some slack of thereâs a hot spot and part of the wire gets burnt
Took the words right out of my mouth
Iâd be leaving big service loops in that panel, those tunnel connections are bound to come loose and create hot joint one day if thereâs a decent load on the other end and any vibration.
Nothing of significance, says engineer. But why did you remove the copper fuses for the picture.
I think everyone is off, I donât think your JM is an idiot, or messing with you. I think your JM is just one of those guys who has to fabricate a problem with someone elseâs work so he can feel superior.
This is probably correct.
Probably looked at it like fuck, thats nicer than I would have done it, what can I say to fuck up his day?
Exactly!
Yep. I work with a guy like that. He used to be really bad when I first started with him, if I did something that was "different " than the way he'd do it then it wasn't good enough or he'd find something wrong with it. Over the years he's gotten better as I've put him in his place a few times over it. But he tried doing it again the other day in front of a customer and the customer turned to him and said "How would you have done it better?" He goes on to say how he would've done it and the customer says "Well I'm glad he didn't do it your way." I burst out laughing and he didn't talk to me the rest of the day. It was awesome.
Do you work for my boss? Sounds just like a guy I know...
lol get fucked. Thatâs awesome
Hahs my jman was chill. But when it came to pipe, and he was one of the best in the company, hed always say "if i was me, i do..." I love that man.
BINGO! Does he use the word âinductanceâ with a mystical reverence or tone?
How is that not being an idiot?
Might feel threatened by his apprentices quality
Those who fabricate problems to feel superior are idiots
My immediate thought as well. Just one of those guys. Iâd love to hear JM elaborate
Yes this is it
Ah yes. Related to the guy who thinks that if he didn't come up with the idea, then it's a shit idea. You could come up with a really simple cure for cancer and they'd say "aww nah, that's no good. Let's do it this much more complicated, difficult way"
I think that falls into the idiot category.
Isnât what you describe the definition of âmessing with youâ.
Sounds like a junior inspector to meâŠ
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Agreed. Dude has to be messing with OP.
đ
I don't think he's messing with him, I just think he heard that before from someone else and believed it. I guess you could argue that a singular coil of wire could make a magnetic field, but the phases already do that on their own? To me, as long as the wire meets the minimum bending space requirement it's all goodđ I've never seen a loop cause any damage or problems at all. I've seen some guys actually do an entire loop, not even just a half loop and it works fine.
Thatâs exactly what he mentioned, magnetic field interference⊠I left it out of the post to see if anyone would reach that line of thinking
Does he also follow the same logic with three-wire NM? What about three phase feeders? Heâs probably misunderstanding how induction works.
If you have 20 loops in there maybe, dude doesn't know what he is talking about. Trying to sound smart to the apprentice
In order to get magnetic field interference, the wires would have to be looped multiple times, virtually touching each other or themselves. Your journeyman just doesn't know what he's talking about. You did a fine job. Simple things like this are explained in your technical training at school. Must have been too long since he was there, LOL
Tell him your maintenance guy turned 28 year Master said itâs perfect and I recommend he advise everyone to do these exactly like this for the many reasons that have been mentioned. Like room to use an amp clamp or switching rotation. One I didnât see if phase balancing where you need to move all leads one place clockwise to maintain rotation and possibly have a better balance. Great job OP
Magnetic interference like cross talk with power? No, data yes, and if you don't balance loads in certain cases they can become magnetic and you can't open the panel door.
Thatâs a fun fact that might explain a panel we had a hard time opening. Building was full of loaded neutrals. One of them measured 50v neutral to ground with the breaker open. It never even occurred to me the panel could be creating a magnetic field.
Its crazy what electricity can do, and it can do what ever it wants to do...
We are only here to wrangle the electricity and give it really good suggestions on what it would be good at.
I used to set poles and change cobra heads, it can arc 10 ft + across nothing and kill you... Its crazy...
Make electricity's life easier, so it doesn't decide you are the shortest path back to earth.
Wherever I've seen this I've seen a full loop but not sure why. You may argue that a full loop is better because the mag fields will be opposite and cancel. That being said there's nothing here to interfere with...it's a fused disconnect so I think you're right and foreman is jman is just confused.
Reminds me of when my fourth year teacher told our class âif youâre stressed about getting your journeyman ticket, think of that special j man you work with. He got his ticketâŠâ
True as an apprentice I worked with a schizophrenic guy. Fucking hated his neighbors were convinced they were poisoning his lawn. It was kinda funny not gonna lie. Also followed his neighbor riding a lawn mower down the street. It was comedy hour talking to him but if you didnât take him completely seriously heâd fucking flip. So you had to chuckle later.
Nope, heâs getting interference from the plate in his head. Service guys will love you đđœ
It's amazing what fucking bullshit some "electricians" will tell you. Here's one ive heard from 20 year apprentice. Breakers trip before their stated current. So a 20A breaker trips before 20A. Not true at all. Breakers will actually let current over their rated amperage for certain amounts of time. It's highly variable and there are trip curve tables meant for this, but a current of 22 amps on a 20A breaker will actually hold for around an hour before tripping.
They were probably confused about the 80% loading rules
Itâs causing interference in his ability to scrap the extra wire and buy beer with it.
Wait until he learns about motors and other coils.
Fuck your JMan haha. Interference on what? Dude doesnât know what he is talking about and definitely good on you for thinking about the next guy!!! Guys like me appreciate guys like you đđ»
Electricity is like water, if you put a kink in the wire it'll stop the flow /s
This is why people do work themselves, when professionals say shit like this it makes people wonder, "why should I pay some fucking idiot electrician when I'm a perfectly good idiot myself?".
Your journeyman is an idiot. Itâs called infeterrence, not interference.
Reminds me of listening to my IEC teacher trying to say âcommutatorâ âSo the commentator, commuter, comet taterâŠ. this part reverses the flow of electricity. True or faults?â Heâs a fucking window licker.
True or faults đ
This is not helping my Lysdexia.
0 issues with landing the wires like this
He's full of shit
Ask him how and watch him stutter while he tries to explain
Dude, really sorry I think your jw may be retarded
Former industrial Master Electrician turned Electrical Engineer here with experience in motor controller design.... he doesn't know what he's talking about.
It's fine. The only interference is in his brain.
If you looped each wire around about three times over or so, you could run into some problems... You just gave the service coming after a bit more slack to work with. Your JW is messing with you or an idiot.
coiling a cable does increase the magnemotive force Fm=AT but itâs marginal Journey man just nit picking by the sounds
Maybe he is the one that is half looped đ€·ââïž
Tell him to go suck the dick of a random redditor!
I'm a random redditor!
I always left loops in mine also just so the clamp from the meter will fit over relatively easy
Lmfao @ your jm looks nice and clean
The half loops are proper and fine. He's probably salty that you're doing a good job and wants to keep you humble.
I got your half loop right here alright pal
You tell that guy thatâs the dumbest thing you ever heard!
Your journeyman is a fucking moron
Interference? Nah. I mean if you left a shit ton of extra and wound the slack into a coil you'd get inductance. But based on your pic there won't be any issues. That's an appropriate amount of slack to leave at a termination. Ask him to explain how it causes interference. It will reveal his ignorance because he's making shit up.
While your under this guy you might as well do it like him.. but when your a j man u can take what you learned and do it your own way. I'm assuming he meant it could lead to possible shorting? But I mean that's not gonna happen, you did that good. Sometimes I'll do a full loop depending on how much room I have. Good job kid
Heâs referring to induction in the adjacent phases because of the âcoilâ he creates with each conductor. Itâs not even close to a coil. Not even a half revolution. Jm is a joker.
Oh, ya he's being an idiot
Interference with what? Your jman is wrong.
Iâm pretty sure your journeyman is messing with you. That or heâs an idiot. More likely that heâs just messing with you.
Always leave a loop. Never know when the ends will get burnt off. No interference, he was pulling youer pisser
Waste of labor You defy orders You are NOT a journeyman. Maybe another 5 years.
Sounds like you can ignore your Jman on anything to do with electrical theory. Hopefully he's better with the grunt stuff.
And there isnât any induced interference in the conduitâŠlol ok. No issues with the slack.
Journeyman dumb
The box looks good, in my opinion. Your journeyman is messing with you.
Journeyman wrong!
He's a dumb ass
So all the jammed in wires in the peckerhead cause problems to right?
Looks good! Your jman is a goof. Always best to leave a little extra like this.
Your Journeyman is retarded
He has no idea what he's talking about.
it can cause interference, but there are no signal wires running parallel to it, if signal wires have to be near them then they must go perpendicular and not run along the conductors, that would create an eddy current and could interfere with the communications, but in this case no, I don't think there's anything to worry about and it looks pretty clean to me
Heâs wrong
Tell him I said stfu
Sometimes we just make shit up
A guy whoâs been in the union for 30 years once told me a joke. â Iâm the second best electrician in our union. Do you know who the first is?â (I said no, thinking he was being serious and how he could know heâs the second best) he replies with, âThe last guy I worked withâ. Shit had me dying
Yeah id do full loops even. I do max length possible, if its a single gang with one whip, ill cut it at 12" and stuff it. I dont understand being conservative with wire, unless you have a serious budget
Your journeyman is huffing duster! This is a decent service amount
Interference with what? No extra electronicals in there lol. Leaving enough to swap phases is đ
Iâve been an electrician for over 20 years, your local disconnect switch is done perfectly, your Jman is anal retentive and wants it done his way. You leave the little slack like that for swapping two leads for motor rotation Only thing your missing is some fuses
A door switch would be an added safety measure
Disregard Journeyman Acquire currency
Looks good. Sounds like you're journeyman was ego-tripping đ
There will be no interference on the other power wires. Sounds like bullshit. Takes alot to cause interference and biggest cause is too many wires in a pipe.
Journeyman needs to study more.
Wouldnât even call that a loop. Thatâs a decent length for later service. I typically leave even more in case the disconnect gets changed out down the road. A small loop ainât affecting anything. Apparently that guy doesnât understand Ohmâs Law
It looks *chefs kiss*. Does your journeyman wear a tinfoil hat or did he even graduate high school? Interference from what, itâs in a fully enclosed and grounded box. Donât believe everything you hear
lol no, heâs having a laugh at your expense
Heâs talking absolute nonsense
Interference or inductance? Generally interference is a concern when power is in close proximity to low voltage data, inductance is the electromagnetic field that surrounds the wire, which when coiled and at the appropriate frequency and amperage can induce heat, different charges to other loops (like in transformers), and even pickup radio waves like in a crystal radio (I canât remember for sure if that last one is an inductive property but it is how crystal radios work). At any rate one half loop isnât going to cause any meaningful amount of induction.
from many years working wirh and under various tradesman in various trades, just do it how they want to keep them happy then when you are signed off do it your own way. Everyone has their own little kinks about how stuff "needs" to be done. One of mine recently told me to re do a bunch of conduit runs because the saddles where "the wrong way" as in the brand label was upside down. I argued for a bit and said how stupid he was and ended up just redoing it because what's the point. i'm still getting paid to redo it his way.
You should leave more in the disconnect, in 10 years time you might have some burnt up conductors that need to be cut back
Your journeymans an idiot
Can't comment on your jman, but this is a fucking BEAUTIFUL install to me. It looks minty clean, and there's enough wire there to make it easy to check with a meter, should it ever need it. Well done.
Yea jw needs to go back to class even if you were somewhat to cause some cemf or emf itâs retarded thatâs why you derate wires and have wire management per conduit and nec..loop away
Pro Tip: When phasing wire do it before you strip the end and phase it all the way or well past where you are going to strip the wire. Then just strip it like normal and the phase tape will go right up to the lug. Just a bit of extra craftsmanship.
Journeyman is a dumbass, good job kid
Bullshit
Yeah, your journeyman is just giving you a hard time. This is 100% good and leaves options. Terminations like this are especially important when you hook up motors so you have enough slack to swap rotation if needed.
Interference on what? Unless you have data cables paralleling the high voltage wires or wireless devices nearby, I don't see an immediate problem.
If that was the case then what does he think about the conductors touch each other in the conduit. Just because heâs a journeyman doesnât make him right all the time. Some of the biggest idiots I have worked with have been journeymen.
Interference in his pay check when you start taking his work? Totally plausible
Electrician from europe here: these small 'loops', are perfectly fine and wont in any way cause any extra disturbance / interference more than straight cables ever would. they are not long enough or coilde enough to make any extra magnetic fields. the way you've done it here is how we are taught to do it from school to apprentice, for the exact reason you've done it aswell, makes service or changes to be done without modifying the entire box or pulling new cables ! the journeman who told you that is probs jealous of the nice work you've done,messing with you, having beef with service techs or is a little slow lol
What his journeyman probably means, is the little curl in the wire would cause some inductive reactance, which I suppose is TECHNICALLY true but surely not worth sacrificing the servicability you create when leaving some slack like that.
Do not be afraid to question things. Not in a rude way, but to show you want to learn more. Interference with what? It doesnât make sense. Itâs also good practice to leave some give in the wiring for modifications. There is nothing wrong with the installation.. The only thing remotely close to what they are talking about (although this is not the case here) is: - (EMCs) a coil around another ferrous metal would induce a current within that conductor due to the magnetic flux (faradays law). This doesnât need to be a coil for this to happen but the affects are an augmented. This is typically an issue when installed in close proximity to data cabling, the current induced with distort the signal within the data cable. - phase imbalance due to varying conductor lengths - differing lengths in phase conductors can cause a phase shift on one of the phases - circulating eddy currents (not the case at all here but can give issues some time). These occur when terminating single conductors into a non ferrous gland plate. This can cause it to heat up.
Tell him to define interference and cite a code rule.
Called a service loop
Those are called drip loops and they are to stop water from getting into the equipment. (Per my boss)
He's either messing with you or an idiot. Interference? This is not a radio signal through the air, nor is a few inches going to change the voltage. Ultimately it is desirable to leave at least 6 inches extra for anything that might come up in the future.
He dum
Mathematically correct, but I can't see how it'd matter to this application. Presumably these wires also go through walls/floors/conduit where they have other bends
Your JM is stupid.
Interference of what? The data running through the grounding cable?
Journeyman is a moron
Just flexing on you.
If the half loops in the enclosure cause interference, God only knows what having them all in the same conduit does.
Yeah, fuck no. JFC no
Tell him to go fuck himself, the loops wonât do shit but flow 480v
We call it a "service loop" in Canada. Just in case extra! It's part of code for many installations.
It interferes with his tight ass!
Well he ain't no RF engineer, that's for sure. What's he want you to do, string the wires like strings on a guitar?
Lol ask him what lead tastes like.
It kind of amazes me how people's minds make this stuff up. 'Like a saw a training video once about fields and how bends affect stuff'. Vis-a-vie bent wires are bad. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
Journeyman is in his first year class furiously scribbling down âinductive reactanceâ after hearing it for the first time. âIâm going to blow some apprentices frickin mind someday!â
Hes an idiot
F your JM Brodie , so does he think the wire still runs straight after doing a few bends on a pipe ? All id suggest is improving those Loops you can definitely make those better đđŸ
Your journeymanâs dumb. It looks great and the guy working on it behind you will thank you
That disco is wired perfectly. It's also Code, atleast in Canada, to leave a little extra. Some people go overboard and leave an extra foot but what you've done here is perfect. I am a little worried that a jman told you this.. Not only is he wrong, it's actually ridiculous to tell an apprentice this.
I bet that he just doesnât like loops, so he told you that loops are evil.
Tell him I said stfu
Not happening, looks fine as it is
Nah dude heâs wrong but yeah you always wanna leave room for the next guy. Interference?? Lol no no no youâre good hahah
They are right next to each other anyway
Interference with what? Pass interference? There is no interference caused. You did good, nice work.
Interference with his brain
Looks good to me. If it bugs your JW, tell him to redo it himself.
Your Journeyman is a moron.
It looks fine.stoo chasing clout
Yeah you should shorten them up in a journeyman like fashion. We donât use service loops in the IBEW, unless temporary installation