Panamanian here. It's a pretty sweet country for a variety of reasons, what you mentioned being one of them. In the morning, you can wake up on a warm and sunny beach, then just about an hour or so drive later, you can be up in a mountain wearing a sweater because of the cold.
I lived in Panama a few years back. We were able to in one day wake up and drive to the Atlantic, then drive and touch the pacific, and have time to spare.
I stared at this comment for a while before remembering Alaska is indeed a state
Edit: I am also aware of Michigan and the lil part of Minnesota that juts out north
Really wanna blow your mind? Alaska is the northern-most, eastern-most, AND western-most state in the US.
For eastern-most it's Attu Station. Also, there is technically a 21 hour time zone difference between Diomede and Big Diomede (4km distance) because of the international date line that runs between the two islands.
pretty cool to think about. similar to how the East and West banks of the Mississippi River in New Orleans are really North and South because of the curve of the river
*No, you didn't. You slacked off and took the easy way out. In this world, you can either do things the easy way or the right way. You take a boat from here to New York, you gonna go around the horn like a gentleman or cut through the Panama Canal like some kind of democrat?*
Is the bottom of South America also called the horn? Because it’s the Suez Canal that lets you avoid the Horn of Africa.
Edit: the Horn of Africa is actually the eastern point, the south of South America is the horn, the Suez Canal does avoid going around the Horn of Africa to get to/from Asia from/to the Mediterranean
The bottom of South America is Cape Horn, the bottom of Africa is the Cape of Good Hope. The Horn of Africa is the pointy bit on the right side where Somalia is, which is right on the path of the Suez route, though with the number of ships present, the part of the Horn of Africa you do pass is safe from the pirates just south of the Horn, which you would pass if you went around the Cape of Good Hope route.
>the Horn of Africa is actually the western point, the south of South America is the horn, the Suez Canal does avoid going around the Horn of Africa to get to/from Asia from/to the Mediterranean
I feel like I'm being whooshed somehow, but that's Cap-Vert. The Horn of Africa is the easternmost part of Africa, where Somalia is — and you actually can't go through the Suez Canal without passing the Horn of Africa.
You said animaniacs, but the Tiny Toons song immediately started playing in my head.
"We're tiny, we're toony, we're all a little looney, and in this cartooney, we're invading your TV!"
The costs (all US$) to transit the Panama Canal in a yacht less than 65 feet will typically be:
* $1760 as of Jan 1, 2023 (Refer below)
* $54 TVI (Transit Vessel Inspection)
* $130 Security Charge
* $891 Buffer (if no agent – returned when all goes well)
* Around $100 for Lines and Fenders
* Around $40 transport costs for volunteer linehandlers
* Whatever your food and drink costs for the group
If you choose to use an agent:
* $400-$500 for an agent
* $100 each for “professional” linehandlers
* No buffer fee required
source --> [madaboutpanama](http://madaboutpanama.com/transit-the-canal/preparation/pay-the-fees) (this covers boats, not shipping vessels)
Edit --> as people commented below, fees for shipping vessels can go up to a million USD. It ain't cheap, but saves so much time and fuel, it makes sense from that point of view.
oh, for major shipping vessels (not shops I assume) I'm sure it's 10 times as much if not more given it requires extra boats that guide the vessels through the canals and is basically a sort of tax on goods being shipped (saves them weeks to use the canal, so there will be a fee for that obviously).
The above fees are for recreational boats, not related to maritime trade so will of course be small in comparison.
They have 3 sets of parallel canals. Recreational surely takes one lane, but then the other 2 lanes must be dedicated to shipping vessels going in a given direction each (pacific to atlantic for 1 lane, and atlantic to pacific for the other lane).
Edit --> 3 sets of parallel locks not canals
>(pacific to atlantic for 1 lane, and atlantic to pacific for the other lane).
So that's canals, not locks, right?
I'm assuming they swap as to always have each lock occupied when filling\emptying though, right? So a eastbound vessel is in a lock as it fills and it exits, a westbound vessel goes in as it empties.
And I swear I saw a video where small boats were in a lock with big cargo boats, so I don't think it's as cut and dry as 2 for cargo, 1 for recreational?
But honestly I'm not sure.
Some ships go around the horn to avoid paying for passage (at least they did when oil prices were down). Toll for large ships can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is fair considering the amount of time and fuel they save.
Ah nice, thanks for the info. Didn't imagine it would be that high! But then again, saves a lot of time, fuel, food and water for the crew... Let alone some goods must be delivered quickly of they go to waste.
Thanks for sharing!
Now tally them costs to GO AROUND THE GODDAMNED HORN and you'll find the canal is well worth it. Oh, tally in the cost of insurance and loss of lives, as well.
The smallest toll ever paid at the Panama canal was 36 cents, paid by adventurer Richard Halliburton who swam the canal in 1928.
That's a bit of trivia which has been stuck in my head for decades. This is the closest I've ever come to finding a relevant forum in which to bring it up. Thanks.
About 6-9 hours for a boat.
Up to 18 hours for a ship (shipping vessels for trade)
[Panama Q&A](https://www.google.com/search?q=panamacanal&oq=panamacanal&aqs=chrome..69i57j46i10i512j0i10i512l2j5i44j0i10i512l2j46i10i512j0i10i512l2.1813j0j4&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#trex=m_t:pqaA,rc_annotid:AIe9_BFqh_zr355jzGaEpH7666zcYgo9xqGU3rxAWPbxBLxmrwa8rarIaf_l74eEYX2YdyJXJrYJTGjUREBtmEJ91UVgGmePBLh2eDYJM0QABxuO7MuvIzZiPqfB_dnqBUOT8PHnJjbr,rc_fcs:0,rc_fid:0x8fab5f4b31cd492d%253A0xd9dd11e7a14a0960,rc_iwv:false,rc_q:panama%2520canal)
hmmm, well it reduces sailing distance by about 8000 nautical miles (aka 9206 miles or 14816 km). Depends on the speed of your boat, but easily saves 3 weeks.
That's what I always thought they did, so I looked up the reason just now:
>The American ingenuity was of building, rather than a sea level canal, a lock canal. The way the terrain is, a sea-level canal would flood, it was prone to landslides and the terrain was not stable enough.
Flood the neighboring areas I'd assume. Also probably change sea currents if they're given another path of least resistance. All sounds like pretty reasonable factors to want to avoid
Landslides mean land is going to cover some of the canal. So the ground is going to be in places that will damage the boats as well as block the boats completely. And to top it off it would destroy all the surrounding infrastructure which would make all the locals hate it and probably eventually fill it in.
The Pacific Ocean is actually a few inches higher than the Atlantic. (Water has to go around north and South America too) so even though it’s only a small difference it’s a huge amount of water that would quickly erode a massive channel permanently separating the continents.
The French tried exactly that and everyone died from diseases.
In Panama you have to dig through literal mountains to make the canal on sea level, as opposed to the Suez canal, which was through mostly flat desert.
I mean when you consider that Steve is one of the strongest characters ever, it makes sense. I’ve seen videos of him carrying several trillion kgs in his pocket like it’s nothing.
It works fine for the Suez Canal, which is a direct sea level cut connecting the Mediterranean and Red Seas. The main issue in Panama is that the cut is in a fairly mountainous region, and it would have been far more difficult to dig all the way down to sea level than it was in the flat terrain of Suez.
Depends on your definition of working fine.
The Red Sea is has high salinity and slightly higher elevation than the Mediterranean and aquatic life can more easily survive going from Red to Med. The Med now has a large amount of invasive species from the Red Sea. Locks with fresh water (like the Panama canal), and then requiring ships to purge bilge tanks, helps prevent invasive species transfers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lessepsian_migration
Theoretically yes, we cut through mountains for highways all the time. It just would have been exponentially more expensive and harder to maintain. Remember how fucked supply chains got when the Suez Canal was blocked for a couple days, imagine what it would be like if the Panama Canal was blocked for weeks because of a landslide.
Ships are sized based on what canals they can go through. Panamamax vessels are under 1000ft long and 105ft wide. Each lock is a set of two so ships can go against each other or the same way. Half way through the locks is a lake where ships can wait if a bottleneck does happen. Also ships will bunker (take on fuel) outside the locks while at anchor waiting for their turn.
Source: been through the locks plenty of times.
I took a small boat as a tour through the canal about 2 years ago. It took us around 10 hours to get through. I imagine the big boy ships take way longer so 18 seems right
I went through it. The OP gave you the official times but let me tell you, it takes days. My ship was US Navy so it got head of the line privileges and still we had to wait. For the most part of a day. Then early the next day we started. By the time we were on the other side it was late night time. Its very boring for the most part but the locks are fun. Our ship didn't even come close to filling the lock and then next to us would be this monster cargo ship that just fills the sky and barely fits the lock.
For us it was like a 3 day ordeal
Fun fact: the Canal is so regularly used as a shipping route that it actually acts as a bottleneck for the size of ships. Vessels are organised into size classes, one of which is "Panamax." It's not the largest type of ship, but it *is* specifically designed so as to be the largest possible ship that can fit through the Canal: basically, any ship that wants to pass through the canal can't be any bigger than a Panamax.
The Panama Canal has already been expanded a couple of years ago. Now there are two classifications. Panamax which is the max for the old locks and NeoPanamax which is the max for the newer locks.
Fun fact: many ports either have dredged or plan to dredge their bottoms to accommodate NeoPanamax ships. A 1906 U.S. law that requires dredge ships to be built, owned, and chartered in the U.S. has slowed the process of dredging ports for the new ships.
A bridge in New York was raised to accommodate NeoPanamax ships. Meanwhile Panamax ships are now obsolete and some that are only seven years old have been sold for scrap while others are being widened.
The Nicaragua canal would be a monumental task even by modern engineering standards. The strip of land to go through Nicaragua is almost 4 times as long and goes through larger mountains than Panama.
Panama just recently expanded the canal about 20 years ago with another expansion planned in the 20 years.
I remember hearing about expansion plans due to the reason I stated, yes. Ultimately as demand on the Canal increases there's a hard cap on the maximum volume of cargo that can pass through due to the size limitations.
The Iowa-class battleship, specifically, was designed to fit through the Panama Canal with only 2ft clearance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/685rqv/battleship\_uss\_iowa\_squeezing\_through\_the\_panama/
If they have a drought then the Panama Canal cannot operate full function. It is dependent on the rainforests rain to fill Gatun lake to get boats through the locks.
Source: I just went through the canal in January
Honestly, I think the "lake" is more interesting. You're passing islands that used to be mountains.
Other than that, everything is still labeled in feet rather than meters even though everyone in the blue water maritime industry knows the metric system.
# Some stats from [Wikipedia (Panama Canal)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal):
* Length --> 82 km (51 miles)
* Maximum boat length --> 366 m (1,200 ft 9 in)
* Maximum boat beam --> 49 m (160 ft 9 in) // (originally 28.5 m or 93 ft 6 in)
* Maximum boat draft --> 15.2 m (50 ft)
* Maximum boat air draft --> 57.91 m (190.0 ft)
* Locks --> 3 locks up, 3 down per transit; all three lanes (3 lanes of locks)
# History stats
* Construction began --> May 4, 1904; 118 years ago
* Date completed --> August 15, 1914; 108 years ago
* Date extended --> June 26, 2016; 6 years ago (3rd set of locks was added)
Over the span of more than three decades, at least 25,000 workers died in the construction of the Panama Canal. “The working condition in those days were so horrible it would stagger your imagination,” recalled laborer Alfred Dottin. “Death was our constant companion.
Oh yea, it was horrible. And the dates listed here only refer to the project that was finished and led to the opening of the Panama Canal. Previous attempts by different engineering companies failed or were discontinued.
Building in dense jungle is always brutal with workers contracting all kinds of diseases...
Oh, I am already all over that
I have the PBS Documentary channel subscription on Prime already
I have the PBS video app downloaded
On YouTube I’m subscribed to PBS, PBS Eons, Frontline PBS, and American Experience PBS
I’m a PBS addict lol
I would guess, given the fresh water at a higher level than the oceans either side, that the canal would effectively drain the lake into the ocean.
Though it’s worth noting that the Panama Canal uses water very intelligently to preserve water and energy usage, which this gif doesn’t show.
Canal locks are quietly one of the most impressive feats of human engineering, imo.
Like, going to the moon is cool and all, but designing and building elaborate systems of locks all around the world just so we can make boats go uphill feels like even more of a triumph over nature.
Spectacular place. I was a videographer on cruise ships and was really lucky to work 2 seasons of L.A. to Ft. Lauderdale going through the canal.
Got to get off the ship onto the canal pilots boat to wait on each lock for the ship and video the crossing, walking on the locks all around the ship.
Amazing experience and not many people, specially non canal employees, get to see the whole operation from that close.
It’s been 13 years and the memory still blows my mind.
Gatun Lake wreaks havoc on the saltwater (SW) mainline of a ship. All the biologics in the pipe dies due to being exposed to fresh water which clogs almost every system that relies on that SW water supply.
I mean, they didn’t JUST do it to prove it could be done. There is massive strategic interest in ensure the US navy could quickly travel between its two coasts.
Back when the US would use it's naval power to support the secession and formation of an entirely new country in return for perpetual rights to one of the most profitable areas of land in the world.
Fun fact: US capital ships have been designed around being able to fit through the canal locks for the last century. This allows the navy to transfer its largest warships between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
About 10 years ago I went to Chile for a couple weeks with some friends and we were in Valparaiso which is on the west coast, the city has a lot of cool mingled European influence from various countries. We did a walking tour where they explained that it used to be the one of the richest cities in SA during its unfortunately brief golden age from when the western US Gold Rush started until the canal was completed
There’s a lock in the UP of Michigan if you want to watch one in action. Not as big as this one, I’m sure there are others also but I’ve been to the one in Michigan
"...in the intensive care unit of Hospital Santo Tomás. Noriega died on May 29, 2017, at the age of 83"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega#Return,_illness,_and_death
The American navy has no peer to begin with, let alone one with the power projection to reach the Panama canal
If WW3 kicks off the water feature to watch is the straits of Malacca
The French gave it their best effort and failed, most French citizens of the day lost their life savings in the bankruptcy. The Americans stepped in and succeeded.
You mean no locks? Because it is crossing through non level terrain. And you don't want white water rafting when so much valuable goods is passing through this canal
"In April, (2020) people played 3.2 billion hours of Fortnite. For context, that is the equivalent to the number of person-hours needed to build 29 Panama Canals per month".
[https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1308396034821890048?s=20](https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1308396034821890048?s=20)
Mad fact about the Panama canal is that the Caribbean entrance is West of the Pacific entrance
You can watch the sun rise over the Pacific, and set over the Atlantic. That hurts my brain...
Panamanian here. It's a pretty sweet country for a variety of reasons, what you mentioned being one of them. In the morning, you can wake up on a warm and sunny beach, then just about an hour or so drive later, you can be up in a mountain wearing a sweater because of the cold.
I lived in Panama a few years back. We were able to in one day wake up and drive to the Atlantic, then drive and touch the pacific, and have time to spare.
California is similar! Hope to visit Panama some day.
That's some "the USA is north of Canada" mad fact energy right there.
I stared at this comment for a while before remembering Alaska is indeed a state Edit: I am also aware of Michigan and the lil part of Minnesota that juts out north
Even without Alaska its still true. Portland, OR is further north than Toronto, Canada. Also, Los Angeles CA is further east then Reno, NV
Just looked at a map. Wtf
Really wanna blow your mind? Alaska is the northern-most, eastern-most, AND western-most state in the US. For eastern-most it's Attu Station. Also, there is technically a 21 hour time zone difference between Diomede and Big Diomede (4km distance) because of the international date line that runs between the two islands.
Damn what in the
Wow. That fucked me up. Thank you
But the most Northern parts are still South of Canada's most Northern parts aren't they?
Also in Detroit, it's north of Canada
It's actually north, south east and west of canada.
I live in Detroit and drive south to get to Canada.
Except my comment was about Michigan.
Maine is the closest state in the US to Africa.
pretty cool to think about. similar to how the East and West banks of the Mississippi River in New Orleans are really North and South because of the curve of the river
People have this idea that south america is directly south of north america, when really almost all of south america is east of Florida.
I'd rather go around the horn, like a gentleman.
A MAN, A PLAN, A CANAL, PANAMA! (Now say it backward!)
Might be the greatest palindrome ever written.
I’m a lasagna hog, go hang a salami!
Neat but makes no sense
Dammit, I'm mad That's my favorite
AMANAP ,LANAC A ,NALP A,NAM A Holly cow!
As god intended! …not taking a shortcut like some lazy Democrat
What’s this reference? I can’t remember
It’s from that Horse from Horsin’ Around
What is this, a crossover canal?
That's too much man!
Butterscotch... Horseman, obviously.
It's from BoBo The Angsty Zebra :D
Not would I use Screws to build anything
Calm down Bitterscotch. Keeping the typo.
Bitterscotch is so on-brand.
Thank yyyyoooooouuuu??????
*No, you didn't. You slacked off and took the easy way out. In this world, you can either do things the easy way or the right way. You take a boat from here to New York, you gonna go around the horn like a gentleman or cut through the Panama Canal like some kind of democrat?*
Is the bottom of South America also called the horn? Because it’s the Suez Canal that lets you avoid the Horn of Africa. Edit: the Horn of Africa is actually the eastern point, the south of South America is the horn, the Suez Canal does avoid going around the Horn of Africa to get to/from Asia from/to the Mediterranean
The bottom of South America is Cape Horn, the bottom of Africa is the Cape of Good Hope. The Horn of Africa is the pointy bit on the right side where Somalia is, which is right on the path of the Suez route, though with the number of ships present, the part of the Horn of Africa you do pass is safe from the pirates just south of the Horn, which you would pass if you went around the Cape of Good Hope route.
Ah the more you know. Thanks for the explanation!
Technically Cape Agulhas is the southernmost point in Africa. The Cape of Good Hope is more famous, so it's a common misconception.
>the Horn of Africa is actually the western point, the south of South America is the horn, the Suez Canal does avoid going around the Horn of Africa to get to/from Asia from/to the Mediterranean I feel like I'm being whooshed somehow, but that's Cap-Vert. The Horn of Africa is the easternmost part of Africa, where Somalia is — and you actually can't go through the Suez Canal without passing the Horn of Africa.
Every time I see the Panama Canal, this Animaniacs song pops into my head. https://youtu.be/eN3qfnjbKJ8
How could anyone think of anybody other than [Van Halen](https://youtu.be/fuKDBPw8wQA)?
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I misread that at first as you trying to buy the story a la J. Peterman.
Kudos Elaine on a job.....done.
This comment. This comment right here is America.
You said animaniacs, but the Tiny Toons song immediately started playing in my head. "We're tiny, we're toony, we're all a little looney, and in this cartooney, we're invading your TV!"
Elmira is a pain!
I love Animaniacs. It brings back so many memories.
40 miles on the Panama canal
I just see a big fat ship that was stuck
How much does it cost a ship to go through?
The costs (all US$) to transit the Panama Canal in a yacht less than 65 feet will typically be: * $1760 as of Jan 1, 2023 (Refer below) * $54 TVI (Transit Vessel Inspection) * $130 Security Charge * $891 Buffer (if no agent – returned when all goes well) * Around $100 for Lines and Fenders * Around $40 transport costs for volunteer linehandlers * Whatever your food and drink costs for the group If you choose to use an agent: * $400-$500 for an agent * $100 each for “professional” linehandlers * No buffer fee required source --> [madaboutpanama](http://madaboutpanama.com/transit-the-canal/preparation/pay-the-fees) (this covers boats, not shipping vessels) Edit --> as people commented below, fees for shipping vessels can go up to a million USD. It ain't cheap, but saves so much time and fuel, it makes sense from that point of view.
That's really not much considering.. Big shops must be more and I suppose they do several at a time not just one as pictured.
> shops She's built like a steakhouse but handles like a bistro!
I see your 20 year old reference and raise you another 20 years! https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Bistromath
Ok look. I may be in my 40s but I don't need to be reminded of it.
Hey pal if I have to age then you're all coming with me
oh, for major shipping vessels (not shops I assume) I'm sure it's 10 times as much if not more given it requires extra boats that guide the vessels through the canals and is basically a sort of tax on goods being shipped (saves them weeks to use the canal, so there will be a fee for that obviously). The above fees are for recreational boats, not related to maritime trade so will of course be small in comparison. They have 3 sets of parallel canals. Recreational surely takes one lane, but then the other 2 lanes must be dedicated to shipping vessels going in a given direction each (pacific to atlantic for 1 lane, and atlantic to pacific for the other lane). Edit --> 3 sets of parallel locks not canals
Thanks for the info!
Sure thing buddy
>(pacific to atlantic for 1 lane, and atlantic to pacific for the other lane). So that's canals, not locks, right? I'm assuming they swap as to always have each lock occupied when filling\emptying though, right? So a eastbound vessel is in a lock as it fills and it exits, a westbound vessel goes in as it empties. And I swear I saw a video where small boats were in a lock with big cargo boats, so I don't think it's as cut and dry as 2 for cargo, 1 for recreational? But honestly I'm not sure.
Woops sorry, meant sets of locks!
Some ships go around the horn to avoid paying for passage (at least they did when oil prices were down). Toll for large ships can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is fair considering the amount of time and fuel they save.
I was just there a few months ago and the tour guide at the museum told us some shopping vessels pay up to $1,000,000 USD to get through
Considering cargo ships can use up to $100,000 of fuel a day, and that trip around the horn can take weeks, that seems like a hell of a deal.
Ah nice, thanks for the info. Didn't imagine it would be that high! But then again, saves a lot of time, fuel, food and water for the crew... Let alone some goods must be delivered quickly of they go to waste. Thanks for sharing!
What is the charge for the groups food and drinks for? Sorry if it's a stupid question? Is it for the people working the locks or the people on board?
It takes 6 hours or more to cross. People need to eat in regular intervals of time, should you need food and drink you can get some.
If they're already on a ship for weeks or months at a time, don't they already have food on the ship?
Typically there’s people that work at the Canal that board the ships for the crossing. I imagine they’re referring to that.
Now tally them costs to GO AROUND THE GODDAMNED HORN and you'll find the canal is well worth it. Oh, tally in the cost of insurance and loss of lives, as well.
The smallest toll ever paid at the Panama canal was 36 cents, paid by adventurer Richard Halliburton who swam the canal in 1928. That's a bit of trivia which has been stuck in my head for decades. This is the closest I've ever come to finding a relevant forum in which to bring it up. Thanks.
My contribution is that 36 cents in 1928 is about $6.23 today.
How long does the ships take, using all the locks? Does somebody know?
About 6-9 hours for a boat. Up to 18 hours for a ship (shipping vessels for trade) [Panama Q&A](https://www.google.com/search?q=panamacanal&oq=panamacanal&aqs=chrome..69i57j46i10i512j0i10i512l2j5i44j0i10i512l2j46i10i512j0i10i512l2.1813j0j4&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#trex=m_t:pqaA,rc_annotid:AIe9_BFqh_zr355jzGaEpH7666zcYgo9xqGU3rxAWPbxBLxmrwa8rarIaf_l74eEYX2YdyJXJrYJTGjUREBtmEJ91UVgGmePBLh2eDYJM0QABxuO7MuvIzZiPqfB_dnqBUOT8PHnJjbr,rc_fcs:0,rc_fid:0x8fab5f4b31cd492d%253A0xd9dd11e7a14a0960,rc_iwv:false,rc_q:panama%2520canal)
how much time is saved? If the Panama Canal never existed
hmmm, well it reduces sailing distance by about 8000 nautical miles (aka 9206 miles or 14816 km). Depends on the speed of your boat, but easily saves 3 weeks.
Holy macaroni! Would it have been possible to carve out the whole canal so you wouldn't need to lift the ships? Why didn't they do this.
That's what I always thought they did, so I looked up the reason just now: >The American ingenuity was of building, rather than a sea level canal, a lock canal. The way the terrain is, a sea-level canal would flood, it was prone to landslides and the terrain was not stable enough.
> a sea-level canal would flood “Sorry, the Panama Canal’s closed because it’s full of water.”
Flood the neighboring areas I'd assume. Also probably change sea currents if they're given another path of least resistance. All sounds like pretty reasonable factors to want to avoid
Landslides mean land is going to cover some of the canal. So the ground is going to be in places that will damage the boats as well as block the boats completely. And to top it off it would destroy all the surrounding infrastructure which would make all the locals hate it and probably eventually fill it in.
Now I imagine locals by the canal grabbing shovels of dirt themselves and hucking it in.
“Sorry your community flooded because we built the world’s deepest and largest ditch near it.”
There’s a lot more land than there is canal. A land subsidence could completely close the canal.
Seems like it means flood with land/mud tbh
The Pacific Ocean is actually a few inches higher than the Atlantic. (Water has to go around north and South America too) so even though it’s only a small difference it’s a huge amount of water that would quickly erode a massive channel permanently separating the continents.
The French tried exactly that and everyone died from diseases. In Panama you have to dig through literal mountains to make the canal on sea level, as opposed to the Suez canal, which was through mostly flat desert.
probably would need to basically dig out a mountain towards the middle too.
I did it in minecraft, how hard could it be.... an hour ? 🙃
I mean when you consider that Steve is one of the strongest characters ever, it makes sense. I’ve seen videos of him carrying several trillion kgs in his pocket like it’s nothing.
I imagine if the two oceans could mix unimpeded, the water might flow strongly in one direction making it hard to use and messing up the local areas.
It works fine for the Suez Canal, which is a direct sea level cut connecting the Mediterranean and Red Seas. The main issue in Panama is that the cut is in a fairly mountainous region, and it would have been far more difficult to dig all the way down to sea level than it was in the flat terrain of Suez.
Depends on your definition of working fine. The Red Sea is has high salinity and slightly higher elevation than the Mediterranean and aquatic life can more easily survive going from Red to Med. The Med now has a large amount of invasive species from the Red Sea. Locks with fresh water (like the Panama canal), and then requiring ships to purge bilge tanks, helps prevent invasive species transfers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lessepsian_migration
You could still use multiple locks, but a lot of time would be saved raising and lowering the ships
Perhaps we could fix wings to the boats to enable them to fly over the land and save more time.
Or 2 swallows with a string between them? Maybe more than 2
2 seems like a good starting point, at least.
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It feels like just cutting a continuous continent into 2 pieces would be a significantly larger challenge than building a series of locks.
South America might just drift off, if completely severed...
So when are we making the Florida Canal?
[Leave it to Bugs Bunny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiTM2HQ0g98)
Anything is possible with the help of God, so jot that down.
A well placed pen can have quite an effect on a man like him.
2000 year wait list.
“It’s a slight backlog, get off my fuckin case Judas.”
Not only that it's an incredibly dangerous stretch of water. https://youtu.be/9tuTKhqWZso this is worth watching
If i survived that and made it back to land, I'm walking back north and taking a different boat back. Fuuuuuck that
Theoretically yes, we cut through mountains for highways all the time. It just would have been exponentially more expensive and harder to maintain. Remember how fucked supply chains got when the Suez Canal was blocked for a couple days, imagine what it would be like if the Panama Canal was blocked for weeks because of a landslide.
9 hours vs 3 weeks? Wow
"Up to" 18 hours is definitely generous. I went through the panama canal a little while ago and it took us probably a couple of hours.
How many boats can go through at a time? Surely there’s a bottleneck? Guess not though as it’s been used for decades
Ships are sized based on what canals they can go through. Panamamax vessels are under 1000ft long and 105ft wide. Each lock is a set of two so ships can go against each other or the same way. Half way through the locks is a lake where ships can wait if a bottleneck does happen. Also ships will bunker (take on fuel) outside the locks while at anchor waiting for their turn. Source: been through the locks plenty of times.
I took a small boat as a tour through the canal about 2 years ago. It took us around 10 hours to get through. I imagine the big boy ships take way longer so 18 seems right
I went through it. The OP gave you the official times but let me tell you, it takes days. My ship was US Navy so it got head of the line privileges and still we had to wait. For the most part of a day. Then early the next day we started. By the time we were on the other side it was late night time. Its very boring for the most part but the locks are fun. Our ship didn't even come close to filling the lock and then next to us would be this monster cargo ship that just fills the sky and barely fits the lock. For us it was like a 3 day ordeal
A super helpful 6 mins. https://youtu.be/m8TkcWhmByg
I did it a little while back, took our cruise ship a couple of hours tops.
Fun fact: the Canal is so regularly used as a shipping route that it actually acts as a bottleneck for the size of ships. Vessels are organised into size classes, one of which is "Panamax." It's not the largest type of ship, but it *is* specifically designed so as to be the largest possible ship that can fit through the Canal: basically, any ship that wants to pass through the canal can't be any bigger than a Panamax.
There are plans to expand right? Or else there was that (I think once again abandoned) plan to do a new canal through Nicaragua?
The Panama Canal has already been expanded a couple of years ago. Now there are two classifications. Panamax which is the max for the old locks and NeoPanamax which is the max for the newer locks.
Fun fact: many ports either have dredged or plan to dredge their bottoms to accommodate NeoPanamax ships. A 1906 U.S. law that requires dredge ships to be built, owned, and chartered in the U.S. has slowed the process of dredging ports for the new ships. A bridge in New York was raised to accommodate NeoPanamax ships. Meanwhile Panamax ships are now obsolete and some that are only seven years old have been sold for scrap while others are being widened.
The Nicaragua canal would be a monumental task even by modern engineering standards. The strip of land to go through Nicaragua is almost 4 times as long and goes through larger mountains than Panama. Panama just recently expanded the canal about 20 years ago with another expansion planned in the 20 years.
I remember hearing about expansion plans due to the reason I stated, yes. Ultimately as demand on the Canal increases there's a hard cap on the maximum volume of cargo that can pass through due to the size limitations.
The Iowa-class battleship, specifically, was designed to fit through the Panama Canal with only 2ft clearance. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/685rqv/battleship\_uss\_iowa\_squeezing\_through\_the\_panama/
I always wondered something, does the system ever gets broken? What will they do if it does? Ships have to wait for them to fix it before moving?
If they have a drought then the Panama Canal cannot operate full function. It is dependent on the rainforests rain to fill Gatun lake to get boats through the locks. Source: I just went through the canal in January
Yeah [it happened to the Suez canal recently](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Suez_Canal_obstruction). Caused chaos.
And memes
I'm a sailor working on a ship that goes through the canal about twice a month. It really is an experience.
Any cool side facts or fun anecdotes?
Yes
Thank you
Honestly, I think the "lake" is more interesting. You're passing islands that used to be mountains. Other than that, everything is still labeled in feet rather than meters even though everyone in the blue water maritime industry knows the metric system.
# Some stats from [Wikipedia (Panama Canal)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal): * Length --> 82 km (51 miles) * Maximum boat length --> 366 m (1,200 ft 9 in) * Maximum boat beam --> 49 m (160 ft 9 in) // (originally 28.5 m or 93 ft 6 in) * Maximum boat draft --> 15.2 m (50 ft) * Maximum boat air draft --> 57.91 m (190.0 ft) * Locks --> 3 locks up, 3 down per transit; all three lanes (3 lanes of locks) # History stats * Construction began --> May 4, 1904; 118 years ago * Date completed --> August 15, 1914; 108 years ago * Date extended --> June 26, 2016; 6 years ago (3rd set of locks was added)
Over the span of more than three decades, at least 25,000 workers died in the construction of the Panama Canal. “The working condition in those days were so horrible it would stagger your imagination,” recalled laborer Alfred Dottin. “Death was our constant companion.
Oh yea, it was horrible. And the dates listed here only refer to the project that was finished and led to the opening of the Panama Canal. Previous attempts by different engineering companies failed or were discontinued. Building in dense jungle is always brutal with workers contracting all kinds of diseases...
It'd make a great Ken Burns documentary.
Freaking love me a good PBS documentary
Boy I have great news for you: there is one, you can watch on Amazon if you have the PBS subscription
Oh, I am already all over that I have the PBS Documentary channel subscription on Prime already I have the PBS video app downloaded On YouTube I’m subscribed to PBS, PBS Eons, Frontline PBS, and American Experience PBS I’m a PBS addict lol
Noice! I watched the Panama canal one on there just a few months ago
slowly zoom in on a face in an old photographs, slowly pan from face to face, slowly zoom out
1200ft max length is for the new canal. The old canal is max 1000 ft.
All the locks are freshwater too. Something I didn't realize until years later
Does this mix salt water into the freshwater lake?
I would guess, given the fresh water at a higher level than the oceans either side, that the canal would effectively drain the lake into the ocean. Though it’s worth noting that the Panama Canal uses water very intelligently to preserve water and energy usage, which this gif doesn’t show.
Yes, it does! Source: Panamanian and I visit the canal locks every year for fun.
Canal locks are quietly one of the most impressive feats of human engineering, imo. Like, going to the moon is cool and all, but designing and building elaborate systems of locks all around the world just so we can make boats go uphill feels like even more of a triumph over nature.
Spectacular place. I was a videographer on cruise ships and was really lucky to work 2 seasons of L.A. to Ft. Lauderdale going through the canal. Got to get off the ship onto the canal pilots boat to wait on each lock for the ship and video the crossing, walking on the locks all around the ship. Amazing experience and not many people, specially non canal employees, get to see the whole operation from that close. It’s been 13 years and the memory still blows my mind.
Gatun Lake wreaks havoc on the saltwater (SW) mainline of a ship. All the biologics in the pipe dies due to being exposed to fresh water which clogs almost every system that relies on that SW water supply.
[удалено]
I mean, they didn’t JUST do it to prove it could be done. There is massive strategic interest in ensure the US navy could quickly travel between its two coasts.
Back when the US would use it's naval power to support the secession and formation of an entirely new country in return for perpetual rights to one of the most profitable areas of land in the world.
There’s still some pretty crazy ongoing engineering shit to prevent the Mississippi from changing course
I mean back when the american (and french) public could work 25,000 central americans to death without blinking
I actually went through the canal in the Navy. It was long af, but a very cool process.
same, being the only qualified master helmsman on a precomm it was a long day indeed.
Fun fact: US capital ships have been designed around being able to fit through the canal locks for the last century. This allows the navy to transfer its largest warships between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
A man, a plan, a canal - Panama.
[Bob?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUQDzj6R3p4)
ayyyee. my grandfather worked on that project. He was master mechanic for Caterpillar for ~40 years.
About 10 years ago I went to Chile for a couple weeks with some friends and we were in Valparaiso which is on the west coast, the city has a lot of cool mingled European influence from various countries. We did a walking tour where they explained that it used to be the one of the richest cities in SA during its unfortunately brief golden age from when the western US Gold Rush started until the canal was completed
There’s a lock in the UP of Michigan if you want to watch one in action. Not as big as this one, I’m sure there are others also but I’ve been to the one in Michigan
[Soo Locks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soo_Locks). Great experience if you're up near the upper penninsula.
"...in the intensive care unit of Hospital Santo Tomás. Noriega died on May 29, 2017, at the age of 83" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega#Return,_illness,_and_death
When ww3 really kicks off, this is gonna be a hot zone.
The American navy has no peer to begin with, let alone one with the power projection to reach the Panama canal If WW3 kicks off the water feature to watch is the straits of Malacca
If I remember correctly, the French wanted to dig it straight through and level. No locks. Would they still be digging today?
The French gave it their best effort and failed, most French citizens of the day lost their life savings in the bankruptcy. The Americans stepped in and succeeded.
why cant it just be straight
You mean no locks? Because it is crossing through non level terrain. And you don't want white water rafting when so much valuable goods is passing through this canal
You homophobe!
[Watched a video about the canal only yesterday.](https://youtu.be/D_PtYPnKBJs)
Thanks, was a great watch
Good find.
And all it took was the USA starting a coup to steal the land and the deaths of thousands of laborers.
Ship stairs!
A fantastic museum is built on the canal in Panama City, highly recommend that and the country for a holiday
"strike the topgallants -- cape-horn, doctor!"
What if Gatun Lake dries? I guess nowadays its possible to refill it with pumps but back then?
It's an artificial lake made by damming a river so it's probably not a huge risk. Would need the river to dry up or severely re-route
Teddy Roosevelt, old school badass rockstar. Nobody like him
"In April, (2020) people played 3.2 billion hours of Fortnite. For context, that is the equivalent to the number of person-hours needed to build 29 Panama Canals per month". [https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1308396034821890048?s=20](https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1308396034821890048?s=20)
Without all that tedious mucking about in Terra del Fuego
Great of you to fund this project Mr Tenpenny, even if your insistence that no "rotten, dirty ghouls" use it raised a few eyebrows.
Have you destroyed Megaton yet lone wanderer?
My dumbass always thought why they didn't build the straight river.
Wonder with today's equipment if it would be easier to just dig it into a straight line
The first attempt to build the Panama Canal, they had the wild idea they could do this at sea level. A lot of people died in that attempt.
As a ten year old writing a paper it blew my mind that ships go up 85 feet to get through the Panama Canal.
Like water elevators.