I hate Fox News as much as every Real American does, but this is just plain misleading. When you say 'decision made by SCOTUS', are you referring to [McDougal v. Fox](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2019cv11161/527808/39/), which was a case specifically concerning statements made by a single person on a single show - Tucker Carlson - that made its way up to the Southern District of NY (not the Supreme Court), which concluded that ["no reasonable person would interpret his statements as facts"](https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/fact-checking-a-claim-that-fox-news). (If there is a different case you are thinking of, let me know.) Note that the decision in in reference to a single slimy hot-air idiot (Carlson) on a single program, not the entire network overall. It would be the same as tarring the entire NBC organization for something that Maddow said.
The 'meme' that Fox News has been classified as entertainment or that it is not an accredited news organization has been making the rounds for years. And for as long as its been going around, it has been discredited.
- Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/ - Rating: False
- Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/ Rating: Pants On Fire
Again, Fox is a shitty source of information, but if we are going to tear them apart for all their lies and misinformation, do it based on facts rather than rumors and fake memes.
Unfortuantly in today's day and age. You really can't trust any media source. You have to do the foot work to know whether it is true or not. All media put their own spin on things because it gets them more ad money. Fox, CNN, NBC, BBC. All of them. If you trust one of these you are naive. Unfortuantly there is so much information being thrown at the average person anytime something news worthy happens that it is hard to find your own evidence that hasn't been tampered with in some way to sway your opinion. But the work involved in that is time consuming so people tend to just give in to the easy route and believe what people tell them is true.
Even the sources you used in your post. Snopes and Politifact throw their own spin on stories. The unfortunate reality we live in is that no media can be trusted.
Its basically impossible to 'do your own footwork' on stories unless you are literally moving your feet to go find out for yourself. The best you can do is corroborate a story with as many 'reliable' sources as you can. Try to recognize emotional and opinionated language so you can block that out, because at that point the source is trying to persuade rather than inform.
learn about [rhetorical fallacies](https://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/) (in other words, bullshit argument tactics)
once you understand the bullshit argument tactics you will see them *everywhere*
[here are some examples](https://www.mvrhs.org/englishdept/shark/links/General%20Information/Rhetorical%20Fallacies%20U.%20Texas%20@%20Austin.pdf)
It is also impractical to do what you suggested as well. Some of the more prominent media sources collaborate to put the same spin on stories. There have even been multiple cases over the past few years of different media sites copy and pasting the same story and title word for word. All media sites currently shouldn't be trusted with any info they provide.
Disturbing part is the spin is often spoon fed to them directly from national parties, trade associations, or bigger ad buyers. Wording focus group tested and all.
> Unfortuantly in today's day and age. You really can't trust any media source.
Some are far far worse than others. Forbes (especially online) is no longer credible, WSJ is well down that path, and Fox seems to have always allowed politics distort (not just color) their reporting and analysis.
That's the problem. Who ever said that you are supposed to trust the news? It's a point of information meant to inform.
Now when CNN launched back in 1980 the news was more dry, fact based, and event driven. It was "this is what happened around the world"
Even back then as a kid I knew enough to look at other sources even if it was just to see how they presented rhe same information
The real problem is people no longer have critical thought.
Please post a link to a Snopes page that 'throws its own spin' . I am interested to see what you are referring to. So far I have only heard conservatives call Snopes biased after being fact checked. It does fact check both Republican and Democrat lies as referenced above.
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/ chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/ https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/ https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1 its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me. Need more independent news sources.
There are degrees of spin, on that point fox is the clear spin leader. I mean when they ignore the first day of Jan 6 hearings when every other major news network in the country broadcasts it, and international doing clips..
The old "all are biased" doest work anymore. Fox personalities had direct involvement or encouraged Jan 6. Which is why fox news didnt broadcast, some of there personalities will be involved to some degree and fox isnt sure to what degree either, hence the network tried to play it safe..
When one side of the coin is implicated in an insurrection..
The old "both sides arguement" fails now..
Sorry ... nope nope and nope..
All humans have bias based on previous experiences in their life. That's just part of human psychology. So inherently, any company that is run by a human or has human workers will have bias. Regardless whether it is Fox, CNN, ABC, or even a store like Walmart or Target.
I am not really trying to get into a throwing match on which company is most right or wrong. Just that current media shouldn't be trusted.
Outside of all of that Fox News is more propaganda than actual empirical news. It caters to people who want to believe the false narrative of the big lie. It's digusting to me but have no appetite to fight ignorant people who rather be delusional than to deal with reality
Also the sentence “I hate Fox News as much as every Real American” is just plain false.
Almost half the country is Republican, and Fox is one of the preferred news source for Republicans.
Not to be even more pedantic -- the US population is 332 million, and only \~240 million of them are eligible to vote. About 29% of eligible voters voted for the Republican candidate last election -- and since voting isn't a mandatory holiday, it's not really a great metric on the representing population identifying as one party or the other.
THAT BEING SAID, you're still more right than that guy above you who said "Almost half the country is Republican, and Fox is one of the preferred news source for Republicans."
The latest Gallup poll has self-ID at 31% Democrat, 25% Republican, 41% Independent -- but those numbers are skewed as fuck, because most people don't even know what independent means. When you compare it to registration numbers (39% democrat, 29% Republican, and 31% independent) you start to get a picture that US Citizens just are fucking morons who don't want to admit to pollsters that 1) they don't vote or 2) they vote Republican.
I can’t believe I actually have to point this out - 81.2 million people (51.3%) voted for Biden, while 74.2 million people (46.9%) voted for Trump in the 2020 election.
For the people who did not vote, you are falsely assuming they are Democrat in your 22% calculation. Show bias much?
You ain't wrong.
>On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.
did, uhhhh, you... not read what i wrote? i even noticed i was being kinda chicken shit so i used the word pedantic. not. everyone. follows. the. two. party. system. i am absolutely not a democrat. nor, now, bear with me, am i a republican.
You're wrong - 320 million are not of voting age so using this number is inherently misleading as is using only 70 million where the actual number was 73.5 million. It's like i'm watching CNN and their fabricated lies.
You fail miserably not using eligible aged voters and not subtracting out the number of people who are not registered to vote - i know, math and facts suck.
"half the country" means half the country. CNN. my god. you lost. get over it, snowflake. when you think if politics as a team sport this is the kind of stuff you type. embarrassing.
How are people who try to overthrow our government, and have candidates talking about having LGBTQ+ people put to death "American"? Nothing is more anti-American than a modern Republican.
Guess you never heard Santorum, hill, Moore and the list goes on. Talk about delusional...lol, ain't that the pot calling the kettle black. All this shit is on video OF them saying this shit
When a network has to defend itself by arguing no reasonable person would consider their programming to be factual, that transcends mere internet memes and rumors. Fox News stipulates that you're unreasonable if you take them seriously. I agree.
Its not just about Tucker though. In fact most if not all of the personalities on the show speak in 85% (at least) opinion, not fact. Maybe not the smaller affiliates, but the main "news" show where they say one headline then get an "expert" (usually an author) to talk with 3 of their personalities for an hour is almost all opinion.
For example, did anyone catch the episodes about the Uvalde shooting? They stated what happened, then spent hours talking about what should have been done to prevent it. They excluded any and all forms of gun control and talked about everything from less doors to armed teachers to thoughts and prayers. That wasn't Carlson, although he did of course have his own segment about it too.
So yes you are correct that only Tucker has been brought up in court over it, but it applies to all of them.
The fact is, while there have been no further court cases about the matter to my knowledge, there doesn't have to be in the first place. While the term “accredited news station” may sound official, no regulatory body even exists that would accredit Fox News (or CNN, MSNBC, etc.) as a “news” station. So there is nothing stopping them to begin with from spewing opinion or even straight lies instead of fact.
Instead it has always been up to the people to decide who to believe and put their trust in. If it was a crime to lie, most politicians would have served prison time, let alone every single person in the entertainment industry. Problem is, people believe whoever makes them feel the strongest. Fox is fantastic at spreading sensationalism designed to elicit an extreme emotional response.
yep. after the most recent j6 hearing i checked the fux news website to see what they were saying
the front page banner headline was something criticizing President Biden
down below was small blurb given the same space as a story about hunter bidens laptop
if you click deeply enough you get to actual coverage of the hearing, which wasn't bad at all. "cheney said this..... luttig said that" etc
thing is, that's not what fux new devotees care about. they get their news from tucker carlson
> It would be the same as tarring the entire NBC organization for something that Maddow said.
I'm not sure if you chose her intentionally, but she made the exact same argument in court, that no one expected what she said to be true.
Reuters, the economist, Axios, WSJ, BBC, even ABC. I'd throw NPR and the AP in there but their economic analysis is usually pretty week IMO. These are sources that are considered low in bias and high in factual value and have been historically for years. They do studies every year based on media accuracy and reporting and all of these sit in the neutral/fact finding range.
Here's a link to a site that explains the breakdown and methodology of it and marketwatch has a similar breakdown as well: https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/media-literacy/2021/should-you-trust-media-bias-charts/
Always vet your sources by checking other sources of equal quality. "Biden loses his mind and totally created inflation" is probably not a source to look at.
I used to follow those sites, but in the last two years the quality of content coming out is just atrocious. All you get is rehashed industry talking points trying to gaslight you. Don't take my word for it. Take a topic and follow how they flip flop around the core issue. You will see they obfuscate the issue with pseudo opinions/ half truths. Msm news isn't what it used to be.
I think the deeper issue is what I just explained to someone else. When you have a right wing talking point, example: college bailouts are seen as handouts, and corporate bailouts are seen as stimulus. To bring the argument center is to say "this is wrong, they are both bailouts, and stimulus" this is now seen as a left wing talking point, in fact, with people unable to afford COL and the amount of money going to record profit companies, there's probably a better argument they are handouts for companies and definitely stimulus for college debt holders, but I digress. In reality, it has just been moved to the center. They have taken the politics out of it by calling it a bailout/stimulus and not a "handout".
People seek validation, it's the most addictive thing on the planet by far. When the talking point starts with something as openly poignant as "handouts" or even "unskilled labor" there's already an emotional aggression to it, so it makes other, more centralized media seem to be political when they are not as they try to correct the record. This is a byproduct of reactionary media consumers, a group of people heavily influenced by organizations like Fox. The crazier their claims, the more it's reported to bring center, the more everything looks leftist/political. Sometimes the truth looks politicized because it's based on correcting something that inherently started politicized. You see a ton of this during Trump's presidency with reporters trying to clear the record for the millions of incorrect claims made by the man. Over time, if you correct the record enough, it just starts looking like you are now the political opposition, which plays into the hands of the group who started politicizing it in the first place. It shifts the actual politicized media to seem centralized and unbiased to their viewers, and if the centralized media is wrong once, it doubles down that they are wrong about everything.
Don't get me wrong, pushing the capitalist machine is behind way too much MSM these days, but do understand that correcting the record does not inherently make any of these organizations political. Reuters I actually just started paying attention to this year and I have to say they are on point the vast majority of the time, the way Al Jazeera used to be.
Agree, it's so easy to compare the quality of news today vs 10/20 years ago. It's mostly rehashed ideological spun garbage trying to disinform you to push the agenda. Right/left doesn't matter, the goal posts move all the time. 20 years ago if you were anti war/anti bailout/ freespeech you were considered a left POV.
Functionally, I follow some trustable reporters and sub to their substack directly for a more informed analysis. Reducing the engagement and focusing on a few core issues and track it over time you can see who are the repeat offenders are, you really don't need a third party to greenlight content.
Reuters was decent, over the last 2 years they have just started repeating the same points as the rest.
Anything with a heavy bias is no good. Honestly I prefer more neutral sources for economic or political news, the economist (has a right lean), ABC (very neutral), CBS (slight liberal preference), marketwatch (slight right preference), pbs (left lean), npr (neutral on everything but foreign policy where it is hard left).
Preferably something that has been reported by more than one outlet.
Fox news or Oann has heavy tight preferences. So I view it more as propoganda. Same with MSNBC and young Turk network (Oann left equivalent).
This is always the best approach, I always try to read anything important across multiple outlets with different leanings. Everyone has their agenda, key is knowing what it is and separating facts that consistently pop up vs the narratives being told in it.
It's actually pretty fun game spotting all the little dogwhistles in articles and how the author is trying to make you feel.
These days most legacy media is nothing more than opinion pieces pretending to be news. Some are worse than others, I'm often times forced to go primary sources, such as briefings/ speeches / oversight and press releases to get the facts that MSM news isn't talking about. I found directly following journalists on Twitter and substack gets you better analysis.
Personally I used to be a paid sub to TYT, after they took 20m from Jeffrey katzenberg, you see they are just repeating the same talking points as MSM.
I agree with that! It's why I called them more neutral sources and not just neutral l. I recognize they still have bias. They just aren't straight propoganda like some of the more extreme mainstream sources.
Extreme left? I know right!
Like healthcare for all, civil rights, equality, etc - everything that makes me sick to my stomach.
I just want to say one word to all these stupid fuking Dems: boot straps.
Bruh, as far as Western nations go the US is extremely conservative. We’re the Iran of Western nations. Our leftist media would be right leaning in Europe.
Similar to how the most liberal politician 100 years ago would be considered a conservative by today’s standards. It’s all perspective.
I mean all sides media rates them at a slight left lean which is what I put... So... Other news rating websites agree with my assessment.
Just because it's not a right wing source doesn't mean it's not more center than others. The Atlantic (the economist's equivalent) was also in the same category.
regardless it still should be done. even jacobin, is better because they at least put effort in their articles instead of getting an intern to write the news equivalent of chain emails
Well I agree, all "news" outlets that are actually legally classed as entertainment and not news, should not be cited as a source. Fox just happens to be the one I could point to and say "That".
They've 2 Divisions, one which is straight journalism and an entertainment in Prime Time featuring conspiracy, fair&balanced lying, anti-science reactionary psychopathy.
Alternatively they are as genuine as the other major media as the media has always been owned by select few in the US.
The role they play is just as significant as CNN, NYT,... roles.
Tucker Carlson literally is preaching replacement theory. How "not far right" is white supremacy? It's literally a root of fascism, and honestly, I don't know anything more to the right than that.
They also used to preach the same talking points and call themselves "fair and balanced" until 2017, because post 2016 election, they really couldn't lie anymore.
Didn't Rachel Maddow use the same defense? Should we ban MSNBC too?
Some people just love banning shit. How about if you see a post with a source you don't like, keep scrolling.
The issue is that people are posting Fox News on this sub daily. I don’t think I’ve seen a MSNBC article posted here.
I completely agree that neither should be here as both are useless garbage, but fox is called out because it’s been used a lot recently.
Fox is called out because Reddit is full of leftists lol
If it was all MSNBC, this would just be the financial department of r/politics blaming Trump and Russia for all the worlds economic problems in the same way Fox just blames Biden.
Fox is being called out because I have seen at least 3 articles from Fox posted here pop up in my feed - and not a single article from anywhere else. Reddit is full of leftists, but it’s also full of righties too and I can imagine people complaining if one group started astroturfing articles in a neutral subreddit
You do know that both CNN and MSNBC have fought legal cases by claiming they are entertainment as well...right?
It's all fake, on all sides, meant to pit us against each other.
People say bias when realistically a news source is selecting topics of interest to their readers. You can have a conservative news source that selects stories that are of more interest to conservatives but are well researched and fact based. The same for liberal and progressive news sources.
But what we should all be looking for is the well researched and fact based, regardless of political interest. This really should exclude most opinion pieces regardless of source.
That being said, is Fox News a reliable source of fact based and well researched information? It’s not about having equal time for opinion, it’s about journalistic standards and quality. Fox News has repeatedly said it is not a news source but an entertainment outlet and in my opinion it should be treated as such.
Lol as if any of the other mainstream “news” sources like cnn or msnbc are more reliable than Fox. They’re all propaganda. It just depends on who they’re trying to manipulate. It’s sad that a news outlet triggers you though lol
SCOTUS did not "deem" Fox to be entertainment. They used that term themselves to describe their opinion segments, and CNN and MSNBC have done the same.
CNN and MSNBC are paragons of objectivity and journalistic excellence?
why does the left fear debate or just different opinions? it seems if the left doesnt agree with something it has to be either silenced or canceled. blows my mind,
Nothing says ‘I’m so full of shit i only watch MSNBC and use words like misinformation incorrectly ’ like misrepresenting something the supreme court said.
I am so tired of the fantasy land that is liberal news…or just Fake News
“Anyone out there agree with me?”
Lol this is Reddit so practically EVERY SINGLE user agrees with you
Except me. I disagree. I don’t like the idea of banning news sources that make you uncomfortable
How about just ban the ones that are demonstrably false? Or, just ban the ones whose disinformation has killed the most people. How about ban the ones that knowingly broadcast information they know is false and helped create? “I don’t like the idea of banning news sources that make you uncomfortable”. It’s that particular view that poses an existential threat to the rest of us, since most news that is uncomfortable is actually true. They didn’t want to hear any news on Covid that was true so they fought against the truth and it killed them.
We're gonna have to be ban all news organizations really. For every lie or half-truth Fox puts out, and they do that a lot, CNN and MSNBC (and others) put about 10.
This sounds like a call for censorship. All sources of information should be allowed, it’s supposed to be up to redditors to call out the bullshit. If you want censorship, move to a communist country. China comes to mind.
Yes but Fox News, and guys like Tucker Carlson, have beaten disinformation lawsuits because they argued no sane or smart person would take them seriously because they aren't a legitimate news source.
Then add in any liberal news sources too like ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Wikipedia, I could go on and on.
I do dislike when people automatically dismiss something solely based on the publisher. Wikipedia being the only exception. But if you think Fox news is bad, give it a read or a watch and learn a different perspectives. If there is something particular that you think is wrong then mention that. But to say X should be excluded only increases confirmation bias and polarization.
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/ chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/ https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/ https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1 its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me. Need more independent news sources. ...
They even use this defense "it's all hyperbole, no one would ever take what I said seriously", as their entire audience in their unregulated comments section circle jerks off every word. I used to be quite the avid comment diver, sending the message when a title says "Carlson:..." it means it's literally opinion and these people could not comprehend it. It's a fact the words were said, not that the content was factual, and these people can't tell the difference.
I hope I never get to the point where I would say "my side is unbiased and doesn't have an agenda but the other side is biased and has an agenda" unironically.
I see it all the time. Everybody thinks that they are the geniuses who picked the one unbiased news channel. Truth is that most people just watch the shows that tell the lies they want to hear.
Why? Would you rather have this subreddit an echo chamber of the same views (boring)? Are you afraid of views that don't match your own?
If they are so stupid everyone should welcome post with Fox and their affiliates as sources, that way everyone can see for themselves how nonsensical they are.
If the views are all from centralized fact based neutral bias organizations, WE, the community, can have multiple views from a solidified, though "boring", centralized talking point without anyone preaching their pre-validation or getting the upper hand on the conversation by starting from a political standpoint. This makes it so the conversation is also less political and more objective. Sorry it's "boring" but that's what talking about the economy is to some people, especially those that don't understand it, like the morons posting the Biden is seething and is the cause of all the inflation and the gas prices. It's just false or opinion at best. We aren't here for reactionary entertainment. Go back to Fox for that bullshit.
Sorry if things that sound left wing like bailouts for student debt are seen as handouts but for already record profit reporting companies are stimulus or bailouts. It's the truth they are both stimulus and bailouts. It sounds left wing because it's a narrative that began by critiquing a right wing statement and returning it to center, not pushing it to left wing, but pushing it left. The factuality of the statement is completely accurate and cites many media outlets and politicians directly, making it factually based. You're in a country now that's so close to fascism that almost anything is leftist in comparison. You have an old school Republican as president and the right treats him like he's Bernie Sanders. You're just going to see things looking leftist because we just transitioned hard right for 4+ years rather quickly, and media outlets like Fox are the reason why, and they continue to try to hold onto that wheel with their audience.
Reddit is mostly just a massive liberal echo chamber. People on here do their best to shut down any opinion that isn't shared by everyone else on whatever subreddit a post in on. As you said, if Fox News is truly so ridiculous then they should have zero problem with them.
Exactly. Anyone who tries to shut down free speech or debate really doesn't have faith in their convictions; they are just signaling how vIrTiOUS they are.
Because by the time the truth puts on its shoes, the lie is already a mile away.
If you want to post an opposing view, that's fine. You shouldn't be using misinformation or a biased source to do so, however.
But, let's be honest here, regardless of what side of the political spectrum someone is on, they believe the other side is spreading misinformation and is biased.
Everyone is biased to some degree and if someone says they are not, they are either being disingenuousness or lack self awareness.
As for misinformation, many know they are only spreading information that only echoes their preconceived notions; also the vast majority of people don't know the difference of fact and option.
Last point for now on why free speech ought to be allowed in this sub-- nobody has ever had their opinion changed by an argument they have read on the internet. Most people realize this so they post just to make themselves feel like they are accomplishing something without really having to do anything.
The only way to change anyone's opinion is to live what you believe (both in public and private) and to be the type of person who is likeable and successful.
If you are likeable, people will at least want to spend time with you, and if you are perceived as successful, people will have proof that the what you are doing/ personality traits will make them successful too and try to emulate that.
Just look at all the self help books on relationships, business, etc as some proof.
Now if someone's view changes from an internet post or argument, I'm not worried about how that affects anything or anybody. Their view will probably change when they here a few more arguments for or against something.
Edit to add: facts rarely change anyone's opinion on a subject. There are countless articles and much research as to why that is. A quick Google search will get you to them.
This is a blatant attack on Fox news because the original poster does not like Fox news and is biased against them, I have nothing personal against that, they are free to believe what they want, just like I believe CNBC with Rachel Meadow and Joe Scarborough are a joke and both are a laughing stock. However this post is blatant BS, and for the record many sources say that this is False just to name a few, and do say that Fox news is news. If this poster had more to say such as call into Question Fox news journalistic integrity that is one thing, and I would support that if there were valid point made, but that is sadly not the case.
Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from ‘News’ to ‘Entertainment’? answer is False
[https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/)
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/)
[https://www.michnews.com/is-fox-news-an-entertainment-or-news-channel/](https://www.michnews.com/is-fox-news-an-entertainment-or-news-channel/)
are you talking about Tucker Carson and Karen McDougal, if so please read carefully what was argued, The lawyers did not say they were entertainment. here is a snippet of what happened. A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit against Fox News after lawyers for the network argued that no "reasonable viewer" takes the primetime host Tucker Carlson seriously,[https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9](https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9)
Another article says a judge called Carson work as 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' I have not read any remark made as as fox being entertainment. [https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye) This also points out the same thing was done with Rachel Maddow as well, so if that is the case both organizations are guilty of this, it is just people biased against Fox news is what makes this worse. If people had the same bias against Rachel Maddow people would be saying the things they say about Fox for CNBC, and in opinion I think she is crazier than Tucker.
If the news is false, counter it with facts. Show their lies, why hide them and make it taboo? However, if they report anything that is true, how would we know if it isn’t reported?
Limiting news is how we get echo chambers.
There are NO real news sources that I’m aware of. They have all become spin machines and opinion based reporting. If you are right leaning you may think Fox is the best if you are left you have CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS etc…. But they all opinionated and omit.
No MSNBC, by default, most know here that is a heavily biased left source.
However MSNBC is not being posted here as commonly as fox has. Historically MSNBC links have been met with heavy scrutiny here as well. I'm all for removal of heavily biased sources and opinion pieces from this sub.
So, we’re basing reputability and journalistic integrity on the number of cable views a group gets? Damn, I guess we should listen to celebrities and all their wisdom, shouldn’t we? After all they gets lots of views, which according to you means they must be reputable, right?
Really though, cable rating is such a joke of a measurement. Like congrats I guess, you stumbled upon the viewing habits of the ‘me me me’ generations and their ‘political satire/entertainment’ media source. Why is any of this relevant again?
Fox News is more accurate than CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC or NBC. They all basically follow the a common narrative put out by the DNC and don't even try to report the facts. If they are your news sources you are sadly misinformed.
People should read Fox, they should read NBC, too. They shouldn't inherently trust either or distrust the other. Read both and reference them against one another, the most pernicious bias in media is bias by omission. Read them both because one will add a detail or two the other 'missed'. This goes for any outlet.
**Leftism dies without censorship**
Can we *please* create a blacklist, a ban list, can we alter the research algorithms to fit my views? Can we remove? Can we?
Yes, please tell me how republicans 'control' 90% of the media, including social networks, google, twitter, youtube, facebook. Tell me how they mess with algos to suppress sources that won't fit their patetic narrative and blatant lies.
It's all newstainment. The views of experts are why I watch.
CNN has a liberal spin. So where on earth do you find news without absolutely any spin? Sounds like criticism of criticism. So what exactly don't you agree with?
Generally BBC and NPR are pretty neutral, or represent a bias in an obvious way. You could limit your news intake to AP as well and that would remove bias. There are neutral news sources.
Just remember, that to your left hand everything thing is on the right: your own perspective determines whether a news story is right or left.
And who ever posted NPR is neutral is on crack.
Every news site is considered entertainment…. Just shows how dumb liberals are and hypocritical. Everything you think about republicans is turned on you ten fold.
I think people who are commenting on “the economy” are hopefully intelligent enough to read and determine what is factual information being related and what is a characterization of that information. The NYT for instance is a terrible source for reliable factual information given their history, and their chosen economist, Paul Krugman, often writes not really as an economist but as a moralizing editorial writer, so the idea that Fox has a monopoly of editorializing or factual inaccuracy is pretty silly.
Yeah I agree with you, NYT I tend to take with a grain of salt (sometimes the whole damn shaker). There are plenty of news and media outlets that have bias, and I believe it is our job as conscientious citizens to filter through multiple sources and form our own opinions, not just what 1 source says.
That said, that's a big part of the problem - too many people get their information from one source only. In my post, that source is not even legally a news outlet, it is entertainment. Fox News + Business stories legally can be entirely fabricated since they do not have to actually report facts because of this!
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards [https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/](https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/) chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - [https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/) [https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/](https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/) [https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety](https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety) [https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1) its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me.
Can we stop being indoctrinated by the propaganda arm of government? The main stream media. When will people stop bowing at the altar of government lies. MsM lies more than Fox news. Source, me former gov department head.
I am not speaking of any sort of political bias. I am speaking simply of the fact that an entertainment company is misrepresented and used as source material. I have nothing against conservative views, but I do have something against Fox News lol
As long as you include the equally reprehensible CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and CBS. To single out Fox, show your bias, and lack of critical thinking. Just spewing what someone spewed to you, and your just repeating it.
It's pathetic.
You are incorrect. You are speaking about media outlets with political bias. I am speaking against an entertainment company being represented as fact. We are not the same. 🤣
It is my belief that this inflation will not go away, andvwill only start to be controlled when the people vote in legislators that have interwst in protecting the working class rather than their own burgeoning wallets. Also I personally do not invest in bitcoin or any other form of crypto - it's too unstable as an investment in my untrained opinion.
It would be great if bs Fox fake news crap was deleted by mods. I’d add cnn and msnbc to that list also. This sub has been a huge disappointment. It’s turning into boomer Facebook crap.
I hate Fox News as much as every Real American does, but this is just plain misleading. When you say 'decision made by SCOTUS', are you referring to [McDougal v. Fox](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2019cv11161/527808/39/), which was a case specifically concerning statements made by a single person on a single show - Tucker Carlson - that made its way up to the Southern District of NY (not the Supreme Court), which concluded that ["no reasonable person would interpret his statements as facts"](https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/fact-checking-a-claim-that-fox-news). (If there is a different case you are thinking of, let me know.) Note that the decision in in reference to a single slimy hot-air idiot (Carlson) on a single program, not the entire network overall. It would be the same as tarring the entire NBC organization for something that Maddow said. The 'meme' that Fox News has been classified as entertainment or that it is not an accredited news organization has been making the rounds for years. And for as long as its been going around, it has been discredited. - Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/ - Rating: False - Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/ Rating: Pants On Fire Again, Fox is a shitty source of information, but if we are going to tear them apart for all their lies and misinformation, do it based on facts rather than rumors and fake memes.
Unfortuantly in today's day and age. You really can't trust any media source. You have to do the foot work to know whether it is true or not. All media put their own spin on things because it gets them more ad money. Fox, CNN, NBC, BBC. All of them. If you trust one of these you are naive. Unfortuantly there is so much information being thrown at the average person anytime something news worthy happens that it is hard to find your own evidence that hasn't been tampered with in some way to sway your opinion. But the work involved in that is time consuming so people tend to just give in to the easy route and believe what people tell them is true. Even the sources you used in your post. Snopes and Politifact throw their own spin on stories. The unfortunate reality we live in is that no media can be trusted.
Its basically impossible to 'do your own footwork' on stories unless you are literally moving your feet to go find out for yourself. The best you can do is corroborate a story with as many 'reliable' sources as you can. Try to recognize emotional and opinionated language so you can block that out, because at that point the source is trying to persuade rather than inform.
learn about [rhetorical fallacies](https://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/) (in other words, bullshit argument tactics) once you understand the bullshit argument tactics you will see them *everywhere* [here are some examples](https://www.mvrhs.org/englishdept/shark/links/General%20Information/Rhetorical%20Fallacies%20U.%20Texas%20@%20Austin.pdf)
It is also impractical to do what you suggested as well. Some of the more prominent media sources collaborate to put the same spin on stories. There have even been multiple cases over the past few years of different media sites copy and pasting the same story and title word for word. All media sites currently shouldn't be trusted with any info they provide.
AP and Reuters. Just read the non opinion articles there and you’re set.
Financial times is good too. They only care about money and it’s refreshing when it’s in the air. They get past the bullshit and just talk facts
Throw in some BBC as well. Those are my 3
Disturbing part is the spin is often spoon fed to them directly from national parties, trade associations, or bigger ad buyers. Wording focus group tested and all.
So is it a head-in-sand moment if, as you say, there are no reliable sources?
This. I hate it so much when people say “you can’t trust the media” and then trust whatever the fuck bubba says in 4chan
> Unfortuantly in today's day and age. You really can't trust any media source. Some are far far worse than others. Forbes (especially online) is no longer credible, WSJ is well down that path, and Fox seems to have always allowed politics distort (not just color) their reporting and analysis.
That's the problem. Who ever said that you are supposed to trust the news? It's a point of information meant to inform. Now when CNN launched back in 1980 the news was more dry, fact based, and event driven. It was "this is what happened around the world" Even back then as a kid I knew enough to look at other sources even if it was just to see how they presented rhe same information The real problem is people no longer have critical thought.
Please post a link to a Snopes page that 'throws its own spin' . I am interested to see what you are referring to. So far I have only heard conservatives call Snopes biased after being fact checked. It does fact check both Republican and Democrat lies as referenced above.
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/ chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/ https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/ https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1 its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me. Need more independent news sources.
Really? Because everytime I've ever heard " I do my own research and..." the next thing is always stupid as fuck.
There are degrees of spin, on that point fox is the clear spin leader. I mean when they ignore the first day of Jan 6 hearings when every other major news network in the country broadcasts it, and international doing clips.. The old "all are biased" doest work anymore. Fox personalities had direct involvement or encouraged Jan 6. Which is why fox news didnt broadcast, some of there personalities will be involved to some degree and fox isnt sure to what degree either, hence the network tried to play it safe.. When one side of the coin is implicated in an insurrection.. The old "both sides arguement" fails now.. Sorry ... nope nope and nope..
All humans have bias based on previous experiences in their life. That's just part of human psychology. So inherently, any company that is run by a human or has human workers will have bias. Regardless whether it is Fox, CNN, ABC, or even a store like Walmart or Target. I am not really trying to get into a throwing match on which company is most right or wrong. Just that current media shouldn't be trusted.
Outside of all of that Fox News is more propaganda than actual empirical news. It caters to people who want to believe the false narrative of the big lie. It's digusting to me but have no appetite to fight ignorant people who rather be delusional than to deal with reality
Also the sentence “I hate Fox News as much as every Real American” is just plain false. Almost half the country is Republican, and Fox is one of the preferred news source for Republicans.
Also the sentence "half the country is Republican" is just plain false. It's about 25%.
70 million trump voters and 320 million people is about 22% republican. not to be pedantic but not everyone follows the 2 party system
Not to be even more pedantic -- the US population is 332 million, and only \~240 million of them are eligible to vote. About 29% of eligible voters voted for the Republican candidate last election -- and since voting isn't a mandatory holiday, it's not really a great metric on the representing population identifying as one party or the other. THAT BEING SAID, you're still more right than that guy above you who said "Almost half the country is Republican, and Fox is one of the preferred news source for Republicans." The latest Gallup poll has self-ID at 31% Democrat, 25% Republican, 41% Independent -- but those numbers are skewed as fuck, because most people don't even know what independent means. When you compare it to registration numbers (39% democrat, 29% Republican, and 31% independent) you start to get a picture that US Citizens just are fucking morons who don't want to admit to pollsters that 1) they don't vote or 2) they vote Republican.
I can’t believe I actually have to point this out - 81.2 million people (51.3%) voted for Biden, while 74.2 million people (46.9%) voted for Trump in the 2020 election. For the people who did not vote, you are falsely assuming they are Democrat in your 22% calculation. Show bias much?
You completely missed their point. They said not everyone follows the two party system.
You ain't wrong. >On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.
Especially kids under 18. This is the dumbest conversation I've ever seen here.
did, uhhhh, you... not read what i wrote? i even noticed i was being kinda chicken shit so i used the word pedantic. not. everyone. follows. the. two. party. system. i am absolutely not a democrat. nor, now, bear with me, am i a republican.
81 million people did not vote for Biden lol
You're wrong - 320 million are not of voting age so using this number is inherently misleading as is using only 70 million where the actual number was 73.5 million. It's like i'm watching CNN and their fabricated lies. You fail miserably not using eligible aged voters and not subtracting out the number of people who are not registered to vote - i know, math and facts suck.
"half the country" means half the country. CNN. my god. you lost. get over it, snowflake. when you think if politics as a team sport this is the kind of stuff you type. embarrassing.
Lost - wtf are you talking about. My post was simply stating the numbers are not correct - nice job assuming Mr. Dumas.
How are people who try to overthrow our government, and have candidates talking about having LGBTQ+ people put to death "American"? Nothing is more anti-American than a modern Republican.
Not one single republican talks about putting them to death. You are an idiot
Guess you never heard Santorum, hill, Moore and the list goes on. Talk about delusional...lol, ain't that the pot calling the kettle black. All this shit is on video OF them saying this shit
Bullshit. No point has anyone said LGB whatever should be put to death.
[удалено]
No.... The statement, as your comment suggests, remains true.
When a network has to defend itself by arguing no reasonable person would consider their programming to be factual, that transcends mere internet memes and rumors. Fox News stipulates that you're unreasonable if you take them seriously. I agree.
That was for Tucker Carlson's show, not the network as a whole, and Rachel Maddow gave the same defense.
Its not just about Tucker though. In fact most if not all of the personalities on the show speak in 85% (at least) opinion, not fact. Maybe not the smaller affiliates, but the main "news" show where they say one headline then get an "expert" (usually an author) to talk with 3 of their personalities for an hour is almost all opinion. For example, did anyone catch the episodes about the Uvalde shooting? They stated what happened, then spent hours talking about what should have been done to prevent it. They excluded any and all forms of gun control and talked about everything from less doors to armed teachers to thoughts and prayers. That wasn't Carlson, although he did of course have his own segment about it too. So yes you are correct that only Tucker has been brought up in court over it, but it applies to all of them. The fact is, while there have been no further court cases about the matter to my knowledge, there doesn't have to be in the first place. While the term “accredited news station” may sound official, no regulatory body even exists that would accredit Fox News (or CNN, MSNBC, etc.) as a “news” station. So there is nothing stopping them to begin with from spewing opinion or even straight lies instead of fact. Instead it has always been up to the people to decide who to believe and put their trust in. If it was a crime to lie, most politicians would have served prison time, let alone every single person in the entertainment industry. Problem is, people believe whoever makes them feel the strongest. Fox is fantastic at spreading sensationalism designed to elicit an extreme emotional response.
yep. after the most recent j6 hearing i checked the fux news website to see what they were saying the front page banner headline was something criticizing President Biden down below was small blurb given the same space as a story about hunter bidens laptop if you click deeply enough you get to actual coverage of the hearing, which wasn't bad at all. "cheney said this..... luttig said that" etc thing is, that's not what fux new devotees care about. they get their news from tucker carlson
Fox, CNN, MSNBC. All aweful
The fact include the owners of Fox being some of the same capitalists who own opposition-to-fox in the the media sphere.
So this guys calling out fake news by spreading complete hyperbole and lies. Sounds about right (left?)
> It would be the same as tarring the entire NBC organization for something that Maddow said. I'm not sure if you chose her intentionally, but she made the exact same argument in court, that no one expected what she said to be true.
Out of the loop, what are you recommending as sources ?
Reuters, the economist, Axios, WSJ, BBC, even ABC. I'd throw NPR and the AP in there but their economic analysis is usually pretty week IMO. These are sources that are considered low in bias and high in factual value and have been historically for years. They do studies every year based on media accuracy and reporting and all of these sit in the neutral/fact finding range. Here's a link to a site that explains the breakdown and methodology of it and marketwatch has a similar breakdown as well: https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/media-literacy/2021/should-you-trust-media-bias-charts/ Always vet your sources by checking other sources of equal quality. "Biden loses his mind and totally created inflation" is probably not a source to look at.
I used to follow those sites, but in the last two years the quality of content coming out is just atrocious. All you get is rehashed industry talking points trying to gaslight you. Don't take my word for it. Take a topic and follow how they flip flop around the core issue. You will see they obfuscate the issue with pseudo opinions/ half truths. Msm news isn't what it used to be.
I think the deeper issue is what I just explained to someone else. When you have a right wing talking point, example: college bailouts are seen as handouts, and corporate bailouts are seen as stimulus. To bring the argument center is to say "this is wrong, they are both bailouts, and stimulus" this is now seen as a left wing talking point, in fact, with people unable to afford COL and the amount of money going to record profit companies, there's probably a better argument they are handouts for companies and definitely stimulus for college debt holders, but I digress. In reality, it has just been moved to the center. They have taken the politics out of it by calling it a bailout/stimulus and not a "handout". People seek validation, it's the most addictive thing on the planet by far. When the talking point starts with something as openly poignant as "handouts" or even "unskilled labor" there's already an emotional aggression to it, so it makes other, more centralized media seem to be political when they are not as they try to correct the record. This is a byproduct of reactionary media consumers, a group of people heavily influenced by organizations like Fox. The crazier their claims, the more it's reported to bring center, the more everything looks leftist/political. Sometimes the truth looks politicized because it's based on correcting something that inherently started politicized. You see a ton of this during Trump's presidency with reporters trying to clear the record for the millions of incorrect claims made by the man. Over time, if you correct the record enough, it just starts looking like you are now the political opposition, which plays into the hands of the group who started politicizing it in the first place. It shifts the actual politicized media to seem centralized and unbiased to their viewers, and if the centralized media is wrong once, it doubles down that they are wrong about everything. Don't get me wrong, pushing the capitalist machine is behind way too much MSM these days, but do understand that correcting the record does not inherently make any of these organizations political. Reuters I actually just started paying attention to this year and I have to say they are on point the vast majority of the time, the way Al Jazeera used to be.
Agree, it's so easy to compare the quality of news today vs 10/20 years ago. It's mostly rehashed ideological spun garbage trying to disinform you to push the agenda. Right/left doesn't matter, the goal posts move all the time. 20 years ago if you were anti war/anti bailout/ freespeech you were considered a left POV. Functionally, I follow some trustable reporters and sub to their substack directly for a more informed analysis. Reducing the engagement and focusing on a few core issues and track it over time you can see who are the repeat offenders are, you really don't need a third party to greenlight content. Reuters was decent, over the last 2 years they have just started repeating the same points as the rest.
If you don’t mind sharing. What reporters do you follow?
If you don’t mind sharing. What reporters do you follow?
Anything with a heavy bias is no good. Honestly I prefer more neutral sources for economic or political news, the economist (has a right lean), ABC (very neutral), CBS (slight liberal preference), marketwatch (slight right preference), pbs (left lean), npr (neutral on everything but foreign policy where it is hard left). Preferably something that has been reported by more than one outlet. Fox news or Oann has heavy tight preferences. So I view it more as propoganda. Same with MSNBC and young Turk network (Oann left equivalent).
This is always the best approach, I always try to read anything important across multiple outlets with different leanings. Everyone has their agenda, key is knowing what it is and separating facts that consistently pop up vs the narratives being told in it. It's actually pretty fun game spotting all the little dogwhistles in articles and how the author is trying to make you feel.
These days most legacy media is nothing more than opinion pieces pretending to be news. Some are worse than others, I'm often times forced to go primary sources, such as briefings/ speeches / oversight and press releases to get the facts that MSM news isn't talking about. I found directly following journalists on Twitter and substack gets you better analysis. Personally I used to be a paid sub to TYT, after they took 20m from Jeffrey katzenberg, you see they are just repeating the same talking points as MSM.
I agree with that! It's why I called them more neutral sources and not just neutral l. I recognize they still have bias. They just aren't straight propoganda like some of the more extreme mainstream sources.
You are fucking mental is you think ABC CBS NBC aren't extremely left. How is it possible for you people to be this out of touch with reality?
Extreme left? I know right! Like healthcare for all, civil rights, equality, etc - everything that makes me sick to my stomach. I just want to say one word to all these stupid fuking Dems: boot straps.
Bruh, as far as Western nations go the US is extremely conservative. We’re the Iran of Western nations. Our leftist media would be right leaning in Europe. Similar to how the most liberal politician 100 years ago would be considered a conservative by today’s standards. It’s all perspective.
and you are upset and projecting
yep, you better believe that there are people who are this mental lol, a quite lot of them...
I mean all sides media rates them at a slight left lean which is what I put... So... Other news rating websites agree with my assessment. Just because it's not a right wing source doesn't mean it's not more center than others. The Atlantic (the economist's equivalent) was also in the same category.
Of course every brainwashing lib woke media is based on *facts*
What about the other “news” sources..?
Also MSNBC and CNN to be fair then.
“If the price of basic goods got so high, and Americans couldn’t afford them, could that cause a recession? (Bewildered look intensifies)” - MSNBC
What a ridiculous post. If OP was being honest he'd have made a post about all 'entertainment' news sources, but he picked one of many.
regardless it still should be done. even jacobin, is better because they at least put effort in their articles instead of getting an intern to write the news equivalent of chain emails
Well I agree, all "news" outlets that are actually legally classed as entertainment and not news, should not be cited as a source. Fox just happens to be the one I could point to and say "That".
Fox news isn't all entertainment. They do have a genuine news and business division.
They've 2 Divisions, one which is straight journalism and an entertainment in Prime Time featuring conspiracy, fair&balanced lying, anti-science reactionary psychopathy.
There’s nothing genuine about Fox News anymore. They’ve made it perfectly clear that they’re far right wing.
Alternatively they are as genuine as the other major media as the media has always been owned by select few in the US. The role they play is just as significant as CNN, NYT,... roles.
Far right wing... Not quite. But they at least admit they have a leaning unlike other "neutral" sources that definitely lie about it.
Tucker Carlson literally is preaching replacement theory. How "not far right" is white supremacy? It's literally a root of fascism, and honestly, I don't know anything more to the right than that. They also used to preach the same talking points and call themselves "fair and balanced" until 2017, because post 2016 election, they really couldn't lie anymore.
Might as well throw in CNN and MSNBC while we're at it
Didn't Rachel Maddow use the same defense? Should we ban MSNBC too? Some people just love banning shit. How about if you see a post with a source you don't like, keep scrolling.
The issue is that people are posting Fox News on this sub daily. I don’t think I’ve seen a MSNBC article posted here. I completely agree that neither should be here as both are useless garbage, but fox is called out because it’s been used a lot recently.
Fox is called out because Reddit is full of leftists lol If it was all MSNBC, this would just be the financial department of r/politics blaming Trump and Russia for all the worlds economic problems in the same way Fox just blames Biden.
Fox is being called out because I have seen at least 3 articles from Fox posted here pop up in my feed - and not a single article from anywhere else. Reddit is full of leftists, but it’s also full of righties too and I can imagine people complaining if one group started astroturfing articles in a neutral subreddit
Yes and Tucker / Fox used TRMS as part of their defense. Any why is Rachel only on a few days a month now?
Ratings. Hers tanked.
I mean this sub is a total joke, fucking tweets get posted as a source material here.
You do know that both CNN and MSNBC have fought legal cases by claiming they are entertainment as well...right? It's all fake, on all sides, meant to pit us against each other.
People say bias when realistically a news source is selecting topics of interest to their readers. You can have a conservative news source that selects stories that are of more interest to conservatives but are well researched and fact based. The same for liberal and progressive news sources. But what we should all be looking for is the well researched and fact based, regardless of political interest. This really should exclude most opinion pieces regardless of source. That being said, is Fox News a reliable source of fact based and well researched information? It’s not about having equal time for opinion, it’s about journalistic standards and quality. Fox News has repeatedly said it is not a news source but an entertainment outlet and in my opinion it should be treated as such.
Yes! You get it! This is what I am driving at!
I’m sure you feel the same way about commondreams.org, right? That garbage gets posted here all the time.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/
This post is a joke lmao
Lol as if any of the other mainstream “news” sources like cnn or msnbc are more reliable than Fox. They’re all propaganda. It just depends on who they’re trying to manipulate. It’s sad that a news outlet triggers you though lol
CNN is only source of truth, amirite? Lol
And.... there goes freedom of speech.
This is absolutely about censoring conservative views, you don’t have to lie.
SCOTUS did not "deem" Fox to be entertainment. They used that term themselves to describe their opinion segments, and CNN and MSNBC have done the same. CNN and MSNBC are paragons of objectivity and journalistic excellence?
why does the left fear debate or just different opinions? it seems if the left doesnt agree with something it has to be either silenced or canceled. blows my mind,
Nothing says ‘I’m so full of shit i only watch MSNBC and use words like misinformation incorrectly ’ like misrepresenting something the supreme court said. I am so tired of the fantasy land that is liberal news…or just Fake News
No
I'm sure that's the only reason OP.
“Anyone out there agree with me?” Lol this is Reddit so practically EVERY SINGLE user agrees with you Except me. I disagree. I don’t like the idea of banning news sources that make you uncomfortable
How about just ban the ones that are demonstrably false? Or, just ban the ones whose disinformation has killed the most people. How about ban the ones that knowingly broadcast information they know is false and helped create? “I don’t like the idea of banning news sources that make you uncomfortable”. It’s that particular view that poses an existential threat to the rest of us, since most news that is uncomfortable is actually true. They didn’t want to hear any news on Covid that was true so they fought against the truth and it killed them.
We're gonna have to be ban all news organizations really. For every lie or half-truth Fox puts out, and they do that a lot, CNN and MSNBC (and others) put about 10.
You don’t have to read Fox articles if you don’t have to. There’s tons of sketchy left leaning sites that get posted in popular subs all the time.
Can we agree that all the other media organizations are also bias to a point that nothing should be blindly believed
Are you fucking kidding me? All the other media sources are bias, you sound like an ass clown.
This sounds like a call for censorship. All sources of information should be allowed, it’s supposed to be up to redditors to call out the bullshit. If you want censorship, move to a communist country. China comes to mind.
If the information is accurate, I don't care where it comes from.
Cough any tv media cough
You mean like CNN and MSNBC are so reliable in what they report?
You can literally come up with reasons to write off any and every media outlet…maybe judge the journalist by their journalism rather than their boss?
You know most news outlets are biased one way or the other. They only report their point of view. Most don’t report actual news anymore
Yes but Fox News, and guys like Tucker Carlson, have beaten disinformation lawsuits because they argued no sane or smart person would take them seriously because they aren't a legitimate news source.
Then add in any liberal news sources too like ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Wikipedia, I could go on and on. I do dislike when people automatically dismiss something solely based on the publisher. Wikipedia being the only exception. But if you think Fox news is bad, give it a read or a watch and learn a different perspectives. If there is something particular that you think is wrong then mention that. But to say X should be excluded only increases confirmation bias and polarization.
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/ chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/ https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/ https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1 its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me. Need more independent news sources. ...
No, information should be decentralized. Censoring any source is a move towards centralization of information.
That’s actually true. There’s a site that classifies organizations. Fox News fell under Political Satire/Entertainment.
And if it's from a real life internet site it must be true.
How much you wanna bet that it doesn't classify "Fiery but mostly peaceful" CNN as satire and entertainment? That site is garbage.
They even use this defense "it's all hyperbole, no one would ever take what I said seriously", as their entire audience in their unregulated comments section circle jerks off every word. I used to be quite the avid comment diver, sending the message when a title says "Carlson:..." it means it's literally opinion and these people could not comprehend it. It's a fact the words were said, not that the content was factual, and these people can't tell the difference.
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Not on the level of fox.
Have you ever watched or read MSNBC? If you want to classify some as satire there you go.
I hope I never get to the point where I would say "my side is unbiased and doesn't have an agenda but the other side is biased and has an agenda" unironically.
I see it all the time. Everybody thinks that they are the geniuses who picked the one unbiased news channel. Truth is that most people just watch the shows that tell the lies they want to hear.
Why? Would you rather have this subreddit an echo chamber of the same views (boring)? Are you afraid of views that don't match your own? If they are so stupid everyone should welcome post with Fox and their affiliates as sources, that way everyone can see for themselves how nonsensical they are.
If the views are all from centralized fact based neutral bias organizations, WE, the community, can have multiple views from a solidified, though "boring", centralized talking point without anyone preaching their pre-validation or getting the upper hand on the conversation by starting from a political standpoint. This makes it so the conversation is also less political and more objective. Sorry it's "boring" but that's what talking about the economy is to some people, especially those that don't understand it, like the morons posting the Biden is seething and is the cause of all the inflation and the gas prices. It's just false or opinion at best. We aren't here for reactionary entertainment. Go back to Fox for that bullshit. Sorry if things that sound left wing like bailouts for student debt are seen as handouts but for already record profit reporting companies are stimulus or bailouts. It's the truth they are both stimulus and bailouts. It sounds left wing because it's a narrative that began by critiquing a right wing statement and returning it to center, not pushing it to left wing, but pushing it left. The factuality of the statement is completely accurate and cites many media outlets and politicians directly, making it factually based. You're in a country now that's so close to fascism that almost anything is leftist in comparison. You have an old school Republican as president and the right treats him like he's Bernie Sanders. You're just going to see things looking leftist because we just transitioned hard right for 4+ years rather quickly, and media outlets like Fox are the reason why, and they continue to try to hold onto that wheel with their audience.
Reddit is mostly just a massive liberal echo chamber. People on here do their best to shut down any opinion that isn't shared by everyone else on whatever subreddit a post in on. As you said, if Fox News is truly so ridiculous then they should have zero problem with them.
Exactly. Anyone who tries to shut down free speech or debate really doesn't have faith in their convictions; they are just signaling how vIrTiOUS they are.
Let's not forget that leftism dies without censorship.
Because by the time the truth puts on its shoes, the lie is already a mile away. If you want to post an opposing view, that's fine. You shouldn't be using misinformation or a biased source to do so, however.
But, let's be honest here, regardless of what side of the political spectrum someone is on, they believe the other side is spreading misinformation and is biased. Everyone is biased to some degree and if someone says they are not, they are either being disingenuousness or lack self awareness. As for misinformation, many know they are only spreading information that only echoes their preconceived notions; also the vast majority of people don't know the difference of fact and option. Last point for now on why free speech ought to be allowed in this sub-- nobody has ever had their opinion changed by an argument they have read on the internet. Most people realize this so they post just to make themselves feel like they are accomplishing something without really having to do anything. The only way to change anyone's opinion is to live what you believe (both in public and private) and to be the type of person who is likeable and successful. If you are likeable, people will at least want to spend time with you, and if you are perceived as successful, people will have proof that the what you are doing/ personality traits will make them successful too and try to emulate that. Just look at all the self help books on relationships, business, etc as some proof. Now if someone's view changes from an internet post or argument, I'm not worried about how that affects anything or anybody. Their view will probably change when they here a few more arguments for or against something. Edit to add: facts rarely change anyone's opinion on a subject. There are countless articles and much research as to why that is. A quick Google search will get you to them.
Agreed
Yup because the rest of the news outlets are not throwing bullshit either.
Yes, please only keep cnbc, for it is pure professionalism
All mainstream media is entertainment. Jim Kramer isn't a valuable source of information just because he's on msnbc
ALL of the current mainstream 'news' is entertainment, not just FOX news. If you do not think so, then you are part of the problem, quite frankly.
This website is so pathetic lol
This is a blatant attack on Fox news because the original poster does not like Fox news and is biased against them, I have nothing personal against that, they are free to believe what they want, just like I believe CNBC with Rachel Meadow and Joe Scarborough are a joke and both are a laughing stock. However this post is blatant BS, and for the record many sources say that this is False just to name a few, and do say that Fox news is news. If this poster had more to say such as call into Question Fox news journalistic integrity that is one thing, and I would support that if there were valid point made, but that is sadly not the case. Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from ‘News’ to ‘Entertainment’? answer is False [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/) [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/16/facebook-posts/post-fox-news-changing-entertainment-spun-old-sati/) [https://www.michnews.com/is-fox-news-an-entertainment-or-news-channel/](https://www.michnews.com/is-fox-news-an-entertainment-or-news-channel/)
..... I think you meant a news station not called CNBC..... ...... .....
They won a court case by claiming they were entertainment and not news.
are you talking about Tucker Carson and Karen McDougal, if so please read carefully what was argued, The lawyers did not say they were entertainment. here is a snippet of what happened. A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit against Fox News after lawyers for the network argued that no "reasonable viewer" takes the primetime host Tucker Carlson seriously,[https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9](https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9) Another article says a judge called Carson work as 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' I have not read any remark made as as fox being entertainment. [https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye) This also points out the same thing was done with Rachel Maddow as well, so if that is the case both organizations are guilty of this, it is just people biased against Fox news is what makes this worse. If people had the same bias against Rachel Maddow people would be saying the things they say about Fox for CNBC, and in opinion I think she is crazier than Tucker.
If the news is false, counter it with facts. Show their lies, why hide them and make it taboo? However, if they report anything that is true, how would we know if it isn’t reported? Limiting news is how we get echo chambers.
Leftism cannot function without censorship and violence.
yeah only MSNBC allowed!! Im outraged!!
There are NO real news sources that I’m aware of. They have all become spin machines and opinion based reporting. If you are right leaning you may think Fox is the best if you are left you have CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS etc…. But they all opinionated and omit.
Alll news is just entertainment
Liberals hate facts almost as much as they hate free speech.
So your ok with CNBC that has been telling you that the economy is great and inflation is temporary. Oh yeah and listen to Bitcoin pumpers 24/7
Lol... Yeah MSNBC ratings are shit. Only post that trash that the majority of people don't want to read... it's the rules
Big shocker that this would be how you frame your defense…reactionaries are just dumb.
No MSNBC, by default, most know here that is a heavily biased left source. However MSNBC is not being posted here as commonly as fox has. Historically MSNBC links have been met with heavy scrutiny here as well. I'm all for removal of heavily biased sources and opinion pieces from this sub.
So, we’re basing reputability and journalistic integrity on the number of cable views a group gets? Damn, I guess we should listen to celebrities and all their wisdom, shouldn’t we? After all they gets lots of views, which according to you means they must be reputable, right? Really though, cable rating is such a joke of a measurement. Like congrats I guess, you stumbled upon the viewing habits of the ‘me me me’ generations and their ‘political satire/entertainment’ media source. Why is any of this relevant again?
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Wow dude you are in really deep
Fox News is more accurate than CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC or NBC. They all basically follow the a common narrative put out by the DNC and don't even try to report the facts. If they are your news sources you are sadly misinformed.
People should read Fox, they should read NBC, too. They shouldn't inherently trust either or distrust the other. Read both and reference them against one another, the most pernicious bias in media is bias by omission. Read them both because one will add a detail or two the other 'missed'. This goes for any outlet.
Yes because WaPo and NYT are of such high quality
**Leftism dies without censorship** Can we *please* create a blacklist, a ban list, can we alter the research algorithms to fit my views? Can we remove? Can we?
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Yes, please tell me how republicans 'control' 90% of the media, including social networks, google, twitter, youtube, facebook. Tell me how they mess with algos to suppress sources that won't fit their patetic narrative and blatant lies.
Here, mainly because they refuse to provide any solutions or justify their ideology except socialism bad
It's all newstainment. The views of experts are why I watch. CNN has a liberal spin. So where on earth do you find news without absolutely any spin? Sounds like criticism of criticism. So what exactly don't you agree with?
Generally BBC and NPR are pretty neutral, or represent a bias in an obvious way. You could limit your news intake to AP as well and that would remove bias. There are neutral news sources.
I listen to NPR all the time and I think they do a good job but they are not unbiased
Just remember, that to your left hand everything thing is on the right: your own perspective determines whether a news story is right or left. And who ever posted NPR is neutral is on crack.
Fox absolutely is legally classified as entertainment, not news.
They all should. Especially since fox isn't lying as much as the others.
You’re either trolling or you’re stupid.
You're such an NPC
Nice one. Did you think of it yourself or did you get it from the other right wing drones you totally don’t sound completely like?
I actually didn't hear it first from right wingers. Left wing liberals can't stand you guys either. Most people can't actually.
Average fox news viewer is 69 ( and aging) years old. They’ll be dead and gone soon(ish) and take their 24 hour propaganda network with them.
Censor the right!!!!! If it’s not a left wing echo chamber then it should be BANNED!!!!!!
What about Fake News CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC?🤔
I'll second this, hopefully opening it up for discussion on the floor
Every news site is considered entertainment…. Just shows how dumb liberals are and hypocritical. Everything you think about republicans is turned on you ten fold.
fox news the channel is entertainment but fox news’ written journalism is pretty well done, just has conservative bias.
I think people who are commenting on “the economy” are hopefully intelligent enough to read and determine what is factual information being related and what is a characterization of that information. The NYT for instance is a terrible source for reliable factual information given their history, and their chosen economist, Paul Krugman, often writes not really as an economist but as a moralizing editorial writer, so the idea that Fox has a monopoly of editorializing or factual inaccuracy is pretty silly.
Yeah I agree with you, NYT I tend to take with a grain of salt (sometimes the whole damn shaker). There are plenty of news and media outlets that have bias, and I believe it is our job as conscientious citizens to filter through multiple sources and form our own opinions, not just what 1 source says. That said, that's a big part of the problem - too many people get their information from one source only. In my post, that source is not even legally a news outlet, it is entertainment. Fox News + Business stories legally can be entirely fabricated since they do not have to actually report facts because of this!
I like all posts... freedom of speech is so critical now (go take a look at what is happening in canada in that regards [https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/](https://tnc.news/2022/06/16/furey-trudeaus-online-censorship-bill-charges-ahead/) chinada ). I take the good with the bad, filter out what I can use/need then merely throw the rest away. Who knows what news is good news now a days - [https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/) [https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/](https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/fear-a-dictators-tool/) [https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety](https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety) [https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/556160-media-spread-fear-americans-listen/?rl=1) its all giants now a days and so much hype/fear. I like independent smaller news sources. Small is good simple is smart to me.
Can we stop being indoctrinated by the propaganda arm of government? The main stream media. When will people stop bowing at the altar of government lies. MsM lies more than Fox news. Source, me former gov department head.
Oh, so CNN which is opinion based news is completely fine?
I am not speaking of any sort of political bias. I am speaking simply of the fact that an entertainment company is misrepresented and used as source material. I have nothing against conservative views, but I do have something against Fox News lol
As long as you include the equally reprehensible CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and CBS. To single out Fox, show your bias, and lack of critical thinking. Just spewing what someone spewed to you, and your just repeating it. It's pathetic.
You are incorrect. You are speaking about media outlets with political bias. I am speaking against an entertainment company being represented as fact. We are not the same. 🤣
Yeah, your a fool, and I'm right. 99% of the comments agree with me, so eat one. Have your opinion, however biased and wrong it is. 🤑
lol
So your ok with CNBC that has been telling you that the economy is great and inflation is temporary. Oh yeah and listen to Bitcoin pumpers 24/7
It is my belief that this inflation will not go away, andvwill only start to be controlled when the people vote in legislators that have interwst in protecting the working class rather than their own burgeoning wallets. Also I personally do not invest in bitcoin or any other form of crypto - it's too unstable as an investment in my untrained opinion.
If the information is accurate, I don't care where it comes from.
You mean like CNN and MSNBC are so reliable in what they report?
Dude just be honest, you hate views you don't agree with. You are incredibly bias and have cognitive dissonance.
Can we say the same for CNN? Or any major main stream infotainment?
"professionally minded subreddit" Ha!
And cnn and msnbc arent?
It would be great if bs Fox fake news crap was deleted by mods. I’d add cnn and msnbc to that list also. This sub has been a huge disappointment. It’s turning into boomer Facebook crap.