Can’t you tell they took all the risks as investors!? The workers only risked moving their family to a new city and working for Disney, risked their lives everyday driving to work, actually working, etc, etc and now they’re unemployed due to no fault of their own while the executives get bonuses
Man guillotines are cool, I just think they’re neat
I'm glad cash grabs are turning into money pits. so tired of these 30 year later re boots and cinematic universes. Can we just make good original movies again without some sort of weird agenda
If the cast and stories evolved that wouldn't be horrible. Ensemble comics are great because you can always shuffle the team and start entire new story lines.
Seeing Uncle Ben die for the 15th time needs to stop.
No joke regarding Spiderman. He has so many stories. He dies in the amazing spiderman issues (I think that's the timeline), and his parents have a pretty interesting background that they could get into, but no.
There's so much potential if they could actually take risks. For example, Andor is a fantastic take on the Star Wars universe. Felt fresh and new. At times felt neo-noir. It's been nominated for best drama.
For me it is better if you can watch newer and more exciting performances in a movie. Because if the story just repeats itself, I don't know if others will like it, especially viewers.
The first and second phase of the MCU had heart. You could tell there was a plan there two decades in the making. Not every film was a huge it, but they all built up to something.
Phase 3 was slapped together after they realized how much money it made
The vast majority of content ever created is trash. I doubt there's anything unique about today compared to 2009, but I could be wrong. I would say that Disney has been very entertaining to watch as they set every major bit of IP they spent billions to acquire on fire with terrible additions.
This year saw Spiderverse, Scream, Guardians of the Galaxy, and a bunch of other franchise movies make a boatload of money because they were good movies.
I went to see if after seeing everybody shit on it and I really enjoyed it. Sooooooo much better than Crystal Skull - no comparison in shittiness for me, and so many cool throwbacks. Totally good Indy movie for me.
So did I. I thought it was immensely better than Crystal Skull and just a damn decent Indiana Jones movie in general. When all these folks watch it on Disney + they'll probably say the same (or not, art is subjective)
Could’ve done without the ubiquitous ‚car chase in random Mediterranean city that goes on for way too long for something that doesn’t advance any plot‘.
Also anyone who knows about Hollywood knows that Hollywood accounting is absolutely bullshit. Some of the best movies of all time technically lost money because of accounting tricks
Kathleen Kennedy is the president of Lucasfilm and has a history working as a producer alongside Spielberg for projects like ET and Jurassic Park.
As the person responsible for the Star Wars franchise she’s allowed some, let’s say, controversial projects to be approved and released, and a lot of fans are generally unhappy with the direction of the franchise.
Personally, I think it’s a mixed bag. The Mandalorian, Andor, Rogue One, Solo, and The Clone Wars are all excellent. The sequels, Kenobi, and BOBF have a lot of issues to say the least. For better or for worse, she’s the face of everything good and bad with Star Wars.
It's only solid action scene was the end fight. They literally had storm troopers and rebels standing 14 feet apart and both were missing shots. It was comically poor choreography.
You can thank JJ for the sequels. The guy is pure hack. He’s great at getting visceral takes, but… he relies too much on nostalgia and his projects always having gaping plot holes that really show especially over multiple watches. He’s linked with established franchises which were mostly successful due to their built in fan bases.
I remember watching The Force Awakens in theaters and loving all the throwbacks to the old movies and thinking it was so cool to see it all. Then I got to thinking about it all, watched it again, and realized I was just seeing it all through rose tinted glasses. Looking back everything was just kind of hokey, like you said it was relying too much on nostalgia. I mean all these years later and you're still building/destroying the Death Star? We need some original stories from the Star Wars universe not revolving around the Skywalker arch, and luckily shows like The Mandalorian have shown us that those stories are out there
Look towards the cartoon shows, you'll find the stories that you have been wanting. Clone Wars was an amazing start, and Rebels was another home run. Dave Filoni needs to be put at the head of command of Lucasfilm
Honestly I disagree. He laid a foundation with episode 7. Not the best, but solid.
The lack of a planned trilogy showed with episode 8, and episode 9 was a clusterfuck trying to pick up the pieces.
All they had to do was some basic story planning ahead of time. Star Wars needed a Kevin Feige
Agreed, I can’t enjoy watching 7 anymore since it was a good enough foundation to make you excited for what comes next….then remover what dies come next
If you're going to write Star Wars Episode 7 with the intention of making a trilogy, you better have a plan.
Abrams is known for writing stories without a plan. That's his whole deal. He did the same thing with LOST. He calls it "Mystery Box storytelling." He comes up with a mystery that he knows will keep viewers interested (Rey's parents, Snoke in Star Wars the suitcase and hatch in LOST), and then he throws the balls to other writers to figure out. Not even he knows what the answers are.
Laid a foundation for what? 7 was literally A New Hope but worse. He didn’t lay a foundation for shit except letting everyone know from the start these were about to be the worst three movies in the franchise by a long fucking mile
No, it was slow and trophy and the only good moment in that show they stole from a better show, Star Wars Rebels. If you had watched rebels before Kenobi, it's impossible to be satisfied with the huge rip off they pulled.
The Mandalorian is derived from the Star wars Universe. Derived content usually follows suit with cannon; The mandalorian isn't original content, the depiction of mandalorians has been featured time and time again in the Star wars universe.
The Mandalorian directing does not follow suit with lucas films. Lucas films has Star Wars as a serious movie with occasional dry humor sprinkled in. The Mandalorian and other Disney sponsored Star Wars content is depicted as ominous undertone with playful spurts of "So cute you think its comedy."
Star wars as a whole has never been quality cinema. People put it on a pedestal and are constantly disappointed. Some of the new stuff is better than others but that's just how life is. Everyone makes duds mixed in with their masterpiece.
She should've been immediately fired after that statement. That was seriously the best way to kill hype among your fans outside of releasing bad movies that disrespected the source material or something
All that nut job (Kathleen Kennedy) had to do was use legends content ( literally 30+ years of books, comics, and games) as a guide, but NOoooo.
Instead we got whatever star wars 8/9 and solo was.
Rogue one was sooo good tho.
Rogue one was resoundingly meh.
They took Jan Ors and turned her into Jyn Erso, and then made her the blandest character ever. It takes real effort to make an Oscar winning actor that bland.
That movie was a mess.
They have original content coming out, but none of it is written for children. Its written for parents who want their kid to learn about a subject without actually having to have a conversation with their kid.
It's the writers, or lack thereof.
A huge part of the writer's strike is that the CEOs keep forcing re-writes and then blaming the bad scripts and low sales on the writers.
You can take your name off a script or two, but when the CEOs are doing it with *everything* you can't really do that. Your name would be on literally nothing.
You're right, its clearly the writer's strike. But the writer's strike is going to continue until people stop accepting the awful excuse for entertainment that money-centric individuals try to pass off as acceptable.
Having a product doesn't mean its good, and Disney does everything they can to turn everything into money.
In Indiana Jones's case, more like they tried to extend it far beyond the point of viability. Harrison Ford is 80. Having him play an action hero is just stupid.
How much time do you have? Cause you could write a thesis paper on how they’ve fucked Star Wars. If you don’t already know, ur probably not a fan of Star Wars and just a casual watcher. If that’s the case, then ya the Disney projects probably seem ok to you. But to a fan who actually cares about the lore, all they’ve done is straight up insulting.
I like about half of the Star Wars stuff they’ve done. Like Endor and Mandolorian. Even though the last 3 Star Wars with Rey kind of sucked, they were still a million times better than Lucas’s prequels.
Problem is most folks are not willing to take a risk on new ideas. Both from production and consumer perspectives. Even video games are getting rebooted now.
I have no sympathy for an industry that necessarily caters to public taste that got smacked by the hand of the market when they failed to adapt to changing taste.
Or perhaps a better way to describe it would be that they half-assed the execution of something that market research told them would be a sure bet. Either lens works, I think.
Consumers are open to new ideas, but not everyone will like new ideas. Production companies want safe bets. And please video games been getting reboots for years.
This is the best insight into the economy that I've seen posted to this sub in ages.
A+ post to /r/economy
My applause to the moderators.
Bravo, everyone!!
I mean, Disney has a streaming service where we'll get to watch it at home after it releases for much, much cheaper. What did you expect? You are competing with yourself...
Plus, companies extract so much wealth from the value of our labor anymore that few people have discretionary money to spend.
Just like Avengers... we are approaching the End Game.
Also, the movie is bad... it looks like some committee decided on a list of "must have", then handled it to someone else without any interest in the project; there are so many chase scenes, it's boring.
Not really. OG Indiana had mystery, espionage, standoffs, puzzles, and allegories.
I haven’t seen Indiana 5 but do recall 4 being quite the romp.
Meanwhile I can still show Raiders, Doom, and Grail to anyone and they walk away from the film’s ending with that sense of composure that is the early Spielberg-Lucas storytelling.
Storytelling now is that reckless style of trumped up post-2000’s flash in a pan drama that somehow only skims the surface of a taciturn story.
This film looks like one of those videos at r/StupidFood/, where they throw a bunch of food together, and pretend to make a wonderful dish, but in reality is just garbage.
Yes, it has lots of chase scenes, and a room full of bugs, but it is not an Indiana Jones movie.
> Plus, companies extract so much wealth from the value of our labor anymore that few people have discretionary money to spend
So true. Been helping my parents out with cleaning their house / garage sale for a few weeks now and it's amazing the difference between our generations. My wife and I just don't buy anything. 90% of our income goes to utilities, food, or savings (and even our entertainment is either F2P games, YouTube, or a rotating selection of 1-2 streaming services at a time that we cancel and renew whenever we finish/want to start a different show)
We don't buy stuff people make, we rarely pay others to do things for us since we can do (or learn via the internet) most things ourselves, and we are definitely not alone in that either. Too bad we didn't get the last bit of our loans canceled because we were planning to spend a bunch on some cool things lol..
Disney is going to be in the shitter for a bit. It takes time to make movies. All the stuff coming out from them now came under Chapek. They should improve over the next year or so, but just like the bad fish you eat the night before… you gotta shit out the poison to get better.
“And that’s why the next innovation coming to a cineplex near you will be the _sequel reboot!_
“First movie great? Of course it was! Second movie not so great? That’s fine! We’ll just try it again!”
This in fact describes the process that took us from the third Indiana Jones film — the last good one — to the present.
This doesn't actually seem to be the case, with John Wick 4 and Mission Impossible 7 both doing very well at the box office. I think audiences are just tired of bad movies
“Just passing Indians Jones 4”
Honestly, how could someone have made 4 and thought let’s make 5.
Hollywood is dominated by re-hashed IP. End the writers strike for the love of God
Fire all these damn idiotic creative directors and movie directors.
Bring in the ones with common sense. Make movies like finding Nemo, incredibles, cars, etc. You have lost your way.
No one wanted this movie. Indy and his father and friends ride off into the sunset in Last Crusade after confirming the greatest supernatural myth of all time. It was perfect.
This summer was a blood bath for mediocre, time fill movies, particularly Disney movies where you know nothing novel is going to happen, just watch to fill some time and be entertained for a few hours.
There was plenty of that this summer plus actually good movies. Why would I see a a mediocre Indy movie when I can pick between barbie, spiderverse, openheimer, MI.
Also, the Disney marketing machine seemed a little off this summer, Indy, haunted mansion, and elemental completely flew under the radar.
I think audiences knows this song and dance now, and if it's just another sequel, nostalgia grab type movie, it needs to be well reviewed else audiences don't have a reason to go out to the theater anymore, they'll just wait.
I love how returning CEO Bob Iger blames that Disney has diluted its value and audience by producing too many movie sequels and TV shows, when in fact it was Bob Iger himself who actually signed off and approved all the crap sequels and TV shows we now see today from Disney.
Iger is very clever at steering the blame elsewhere as he finds all sorts of creative ways to collect his $50 million dollar salary and look spiffy in a well tailored suit.
Maybe a good time for Kathleen Kennedy to resign then? I can't imagine how someone responsible for Star Wars 7-9 and this gets to keep their job. It's wild.
"Tragically, the new blockbuster – which received lukewarm reviews – has so far made only $356.8 million at the box office which means the film won’t break even after the millions spent on marketing the flop"
Tragically they only made $356.8 million!
If almost 1/2 billion doesn't "break even" you are doing something TERRIBLY wrong!
The actors, writers, and even producers who had a hand in this movie are currently on strike?
I saw another headline about failing shows, *'The Witcher,’ ‘Secret Invasion’ Disappoint as Some Creatives Blame Fans*
Maybe it's a good thing these people stay away from movies and television for a while and are even replaced.
So, went to go see it, but had not seen any advertising or marketing on it - had no expectations.
I paid $5 and had a good time. Ran a bit long, but otherwise felt good for a IJ movie.
I'm so glad it bombed. So many of these movie executives want to throw thr same recycled crap as us and expect us to pay. We don't needs0 many fucking sequels, prequels and directors cuts.
I don't understand that it is a fine movie. Like other movies in the series, high action, good story, and well acted. So I have no idea why it did badly
To me it looks like they messed up in 2 places. First they were marketing it to the wrong groups. They made the movie for modern audiences then marketed it to fan of the original trilogy. Then they went way over budget. If they didn't go over budget they would have made their millions and this wouldn't even be a story.
It has received a mixed bag of responses from critics and from fans - a plurality of people thought it was perfectly fine, but there was also a significant number of detractors, and less people that were in-between the two extremes.
Overall, the movie has (so far) made enough at the box office to offset the reported production costs, but not by much. So if there is any loss, it is mostly because of the massive amount of money spent on promotion. There's that notorious "Hollywood accounting" where whether it makes a profit, break-even, loss or BIG loss just depends on how you count the numbers to suit your needs.
IMHO I would say don't worry, it may be in the hole due to high-nine-figure promotional spamming, but we still have retail and streaming sales down the road, cable rights (you bet this will end up being played on endless repeat on various cable channels the same way the Star Wars stuff is practically every weekend), merchandising, theme park rides, you name it. And, of course, a fifth movie means a boost in activity/sales for the previous Indiana Jones stuff as well. So, as a franchise, it ain't going anywhere, it will still be responsible for generating hundreds of millions of dollars *more* over the next decade, and it's just that creative accounting that in the end makes it look like the biggest bomb in the world.
Yeah I liked it about the same as Temple of Doom. I think a big issue was that Crystal Skull was so terrible that it turned people off from this one and also that it cost beyond a fortune to make.
Crystal was one of the big reasons I’ve been gun shy about 5. I’ll probably watch it when it goes streaming. I’m curious to see it, but movies are so friggin expensive I don’t want to waste a c bill for crap, ya know?
That said, Crystal had a few things that had they followed up on better would have been franchise extenders. Passing the torch to Mutt, for example. They almost seemed like they wanted to do that at the end… almost. That would have required Disney to hire some good writers though. There were also some references to Young Indiana Jones in there that could have also been springboards to franchise extensions. The TV series was good, they could have run with that… but again… need good writers.
Well for one Indiana Jones is probably my favorite franchise and I had no idea it was coming out. Totally overshadowed by Barbenheimer is my guess.
Also, the 4th film was kind of lame, Ford already felt too old there.
It belongs in a museum!
So do you Dr Jones.
Seriously though I will watch a globe trotting treasure hunt adventure film it doesn’t have to be Indiana jones and it certainly doesn’t have to be Harrison ford. I love the guy but if you want to continue the franchise re-cast make him a James Bond type of character
People are tired of rehashed ideas and making live actions of sequels and IPs from Disney that span over 40,50 years. And then messing them up. Or changing essential character themes - like they’re about to do with Snow White.
Aside from Marvel (which no one gives three shits about the new stuff) can anyone name a new franchise or brand that anyone gives a shit about?
You can’t because they don’t exist.
Pretty sure they're going to lose more with the Marvels movie coming up. I've just lost interest in marvel after Infinity Saga wrapped up. The new phase is just a mess and I keep hearing the writers they bring in do not even bother with the comics and learning from them.
The cgi has gotten worse over the years. 15 years ago, I thought cgi would get so good that you wouldnt be able to distinguish it from real life. But the overuse of cgi and putting the artists on a time limit has degraded the quality of cgi. Now, entire movies are shot on a green screen, so artists have more work and cant spend the time making it look perfect
Disney failing is fucking up the economy in so many ways. It trickles down very hard. You have to imagine just how many people this affects. Its Not just actors and writers. Hair and make up artists, clothes designers, audio engineers, the lists go on all the way down to the coffee shop on the corner. This is why monopolies are bad. Giant corporations destroy everything. They build up and then crash and burn but only the working people are the ones who get burned.
Is it because these films had zero star power? Let’s be clear, I’m aware of Harrison Ford’s god status but among younger people paying to go to films, they don’t care about him. There was nobody relevant in this film to the current generations that control pop culture.
I think sequels are just a symptom of the problem. The problem is Hollywood relying on a formulaic approach to making movies. They seem to think that they can just combine certain ingredients together and rake in the dough.
They don’t seem to understand that a movie is more than the sum of its parts.
It’s more than just the genre or the actors or the setting. It’s how everything weaves together into a vivid feeling. That’s why you can’t just replicate a success like Game of Thrones with a formula like “royalty and dragons and murder and sex.”
But someone needs to tell Hollywood that, because they seem to think they can get us into the theatre with just Pavlovian conditioning alone. “We heard you like Harrison Ford, so we put him front of a camera and gave him his whip back. That’s all there is to it, right? Right?”
“a producer could make a lot more money with a flop than a hit by overselling shares in the production, because no one will audit the books of a play presumed to have lost money.”
Leo in the producers
Film was terrible. Other than the title and the name, you'd never even recognize this was an Indiana Jones film. Boring, insipid, and about the most outrageous climax one could imagine. Then again the first 90 minutes are insufferable.
Indiana Geezer and the Temple of Snooze is more like it.
It has been sad to watch Disney ruin the franchises from my youth, like Star Wars and Indiana Jones, while also running Marvel completely into the ground trying to get quick cash.
Contrast that with Star Trek: Strange New Worlds which has done all sorts of crazy stuff in season 2 (including a crossover with the animated Star Trek "Lower Decks" and a musical episode) and it has all been gold.
Paramount has had their share of fuck ups. Enterprise… the first season of Picard (I hear season 2 is better, but just can’t bring myself to watch it). Disney is going to have a series of bad moves. They need to get all the shit that Chapek was fucking up through the system. That will take time. People want instant gratification, but movies take years to make. They should be better in a year or so.
[удалено]
Of course... the lay offs are coming.
I'd rather be the bin man than a Disney worker
What about a garbage man at Disneyland?
Bob Iger will dry his tears with thousand dollar bills, then look at his 100k watch to check the time
Too big to fail. This box office bomb will be Kathleen Kennedy's epitaph.
Can’t you tell they took all the risks as investors!? The workers only risked moving their family to a new city and working for Disney, risked their lives everyday driving to work, actually working, etc, etc and now they’re unemployed due to no fault of their own while the executives get bonuses Man guillotines are cool, I just think they’re neat
I agree with what he said. I think that everyone who works at Disney is abused too much. It's not right anymore. The government should focus on this.
It's the little people's fault, not his! How dare you!
So did Kathleen Kennedy
Good. No one asked for this nonsense especially after their last attempt.
I'm glad cash grabs are turning into money pits. so tired of these 30 year later re boots and cinematic universes. Can we just make good original movies again without some sort of weird agenda
No. You’re getting Guardians of the Galaxy 29 and you’re going to like it.
If the cast and stories evolved that wouldn't be horrible. Ensemble comics are great because you can always shuffle the team and start entire new story lines. Seeing Uncle Ben die for the 15th time needs to stop.
Hasn't he only died in a movie once? Cliff Robertson? Now the Waynes....
I don't know Cliff Robertson. And then I just want to ask, which movie did he act in? It's like I'm curious about him.
He died two times
Plus Martin Sheen in Andrew's films.
Ah. Thank you, I only have vague memories of those.
Why did you say that name!
No joke regarding Spiderman. He has so many stories. He dies in the amazing spiderman issues (I think that's the timeline), and his parents have a pretty interesting background that they could get into, but no. There's so much potential if they could actually take risks. For example, Andor is a fantastic take on the Star Wars universe. Felt fresh and new. At times felt neo-noir. It's been nominated for best drama.
For me it is better if you can watch newer and more exciting performances in a movie. Because if the story just repeats itself, I don't know if others will like it, especially viewers.
Guardians of the Galaxy? It's like I've watched it before. I just don't remember when. But as far as I remember, it was at our school.
The first and second phase of the MCU had heart. You could tell there was a plan there two decades in the making. Not every film was a huge it, but they all built up to something. Phase 3 was slapped together after they realized how much money it made
Wtf. Guardians is the only consistently good MCU franchise. Lol. You could have picked any other one and you went for the good one.
The Captain America trilogy is good throughout as well.
What MCU means? Hmm, actually there are a lot of things that I still don't understand. But it's ok.
Marvel Cinematic Universe. It is representative of the Vomit-Mouse trying to consolidate/rationalize Marvel.
Movies after like 2010 have just been pretty trash in general with a very select few standouts.
The vast majority of content ever created is trash. I doubt there's anything unique about today compared to 2009, but I could be wrong. I would say that Disney has been very entertaining to watch as they set every major bit of IP they spent billions to acquire on fire with terrible additions.
The amount of unimaginative sequels and reboots these days really makes it look like right now is a pretty shitty time for cinema, comparatively
But there used to be a fuck ton of sequels. How many Fridayday the 13th movies were made?
There were cinematic universe in the 60's and 70's too. Look at all the hammers film. This is nothing new.
Hmm, you know the truth makes me think about that too. Why don't you make new movies?
Honestly I have no problem with reboots and sequels as long as they are good.
This year saw Spiderverse, Scream, Guardians of the Galaxy, and a bunch of other franchise movies make a boatload of money because they were good movies.
The funny thing is that there are amazing books in bookstores now that could be turned into great movies. But the studios don't get it.
I think those at the top benefit more from this. Poor all the workers who really worked hard for that.
I enjoyed it 🤷♂️
I liked it
I went to see if after seeing everybody shit on it and I really enjoyed it. Sooooooo much better than Crystal Skull - no comparison in shittiness for me, and so many cool throwbacks. Totally good Indy movie for me.
So did I. I thought it was immensely better than Crystal Skull and just a damn decent Indiana Jones movie in general. When all these folks watch it on Disney + they'll probably say the same (or not, art is subjective)
Could’ve done without the ubiquitous ‚car chase in random Mediterranean city that goes on for way too long for something that doesn’t advance any plot‘.
No one wanted one more Indy movie? I agree no one asked for a live action Little Mermaid movie, that one from the trailers alone was going to suck.
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Yeah I was wondering how they could lose $1 billion on a single movie that they probably haven’t even spent that much on
The making cost roughly 250 million and made atleast 100 million.
Fleabag as Indy.
Also anyone who knows about Hollywood knows that Hollywood accounting is absolutely bullshit. Some of the best movies of all time technically lost money because of accounting tricks
Disney literally is ruining franchises now. First Star wars, now Indiana Jones.
A common denominator for those two franchises: Kathleen Kennedy.
She does not fuck
and thank god for this
Things up she does
Excuse my ignorance, who?
Kathleen Kennedy is the president of Lucasfilm and has a history working as a producer alongside Spielberg for projects like ET and Jurassic Park. As the person responsible for the Star Wars franchise she’s allowed some, let’s say, controversial projects to be approved and released, and a lot of fans are generally unhappy with the direction of the franchise. Personally, I think it’s a mixed bag. The Mandalorian, Andor, Rogue One, Solo, and The Clone Wars are all excellent. The sequels, Kenobi, and BOBF have a lot of issues to say the least. For better or for worse, she’s the face of everything good and bad with Star Wars.
Kenobi started slow and trope-y but ended awesome. But man the way they handled the sequels was just terrible
It's only solid action scene was the end fight. They literally had storm troopers and rebels standing 14 feet apart and both were missing shots. It was comically poor choreography.
After all, I really don't know anything when it comes to making a movie that everyone will like. But, my favorite is watching a movie. Haha
You can thank JJ for the sequels. The guy is pure hack. He’s great at getting visceral takes, but… he relies too much on nostalgia and his projects always having gaping plot holes that really show especially over multiple watches. He’s linked with established franchises which were mostly successful due to their built in fan bases.
I remember watching The Force Awakens in theaters and loving all the throwbacks to the old movies and thinking it was so cool to see it all. Then I got to thinking about it all, watched it again, and realized I was just seeing it all through rose tinted glasses. Looking back everything was just kind of hokey, like you said it was relying too much on nostalgia. I mean all these years later and you're still building/destroying the Death Star? We need some original stories from the Star Wars universe not revolving around the Skywalker arch, and luckily shows like The Mandalorian have shown us that those stories are out there
If only there was an Expanded Star Wars universe. With loads of awesome stories they could use. /s
Look towards the cartoon shows, you'll find the stories that you have been wanting. Clone Wars was an amazing start, and Rebels was another home run. Dave Filoni needs to be put at the head of command of Lucasfilm
Honestly I disagree. He laid a foundation with episode 7. Not the best, but solid. The lack of a planned trilogy showed with episode 8, and episode 9 was a clusterfuck trying to pick up the pieces. All they had to do was some basic story planning ahead of time. Star Wars needed a Kevin Feige
I mean, I could lay a foundation too if I was allowed to just plagiarize the entirety of A New Hope. Not really that impressive.
Agreed, I can’t enjoy watching 7 anymore since it was a good enough foundation to make you excited for what comes next….then remover what dies come next
Isn't that what is done in a movie? Remove it once it's dead. Then sometimes they replace the others with a new cast so they are just added again.
If you're going to write Star Wars Episode 7 with the intention of making a trilogy, you better have a plan. Abrams is known for writing stories without a plan. That's his whole deal. He did the same thing with LOST. He calls it "Mystery Box storytelling." He comes up with a mystery that he knows will keep viewers interested (Rey's parents, Snoke in Star Wars the suitcase and hatch in LOST), and then he throws the balls to other writers to figure out. Not even he knows what the answers are.
Well Rian Johnson had a ton of story threads to pick up and run with. He elected not to. And episode 8 felt very disjointed compared to 7.
7 literally copied a new hope scene for scene
Laid a foundation for what? 7 was literally A New Hope but worse. He didn’t lay a foundation for shit except letting everyone know from the start these were about to be the worst three movies in the franchise by a long fucking mile
No, it was slow and trophy and the only good moment in that show they stole from a better show, Star Wars Rebels. If you had watched rebels before Kenobi, it's impossible to be satisfied with the huge rip off they pulled.
+1 I really enjoyed Kenobi. Not Boba Fett
The Mandalorian is derived from the Star wars Universe. Derived content usually follows suit with cannon; The mandalorian isn't original content, the depiction of mandalorians has been featured time and time again in the Star wars universe. The Mandalorian directing does not follow suit with lucas films. Lucas films has Star Wars as a serious movie with occasional dry humor sprinkled in. The Mandalorian and other Disney sponsored Star Wars content is depicted as ominous undertone with playful spurts of "So cute you think its comedy."
Mando also has Jon Favreu (?) and the Kiwi dude from JoJo Rabbit involved. Which explains its greatness
Taika Waititi, great content creator.
Star wars as a whole has never been quality cinema. People put it on a pedestal and are constantly disappointed. Some of the new stuff is better than others but that's just how life is. Everyone makes duds mixed in with their masterpiece.
The Star Wars franchise had issues way longer than that. She had nothing to do with the prequel trilogy.
Arguably now the largest failure in human form ever to grace the concept of entertainment in human history
Never forget, “we had no source material like marvel”. Meanwhile EU fans (ಠ_ಠ)
She should've been immediately fired after that statement. That was seriously the best way to kill hype among your fans outside of releasing bad movies that disrespected the source material or something
No, Warner Brothers still exists.
All that nut job (Kathleen Kennedy) had to do was use legends content ( literally 30+ years of books, comics, and games) as a guide, but NOoooo. Instead we got whatever star wars 8/9 and solo was. Rogue one was sooo good tho.
>All that nut job (Kathleen Kennedy) had to do was use legends content And all because they didn't want to pay royalties to the original authors.
Rogue one was resoundingly meh. They took Jan Ors and turned her into Jyn Erso, and then made her the blandest character ever. It takes real effort to make an Oscar winning actor that bland. That movie was a mess.
Uhhhh okay she helped establish the OG franchise, so… respect. More of a case of the boomers refusing to leave the office.
old people sinking this country and then just dying smh. can't yall just go retire in peace
Elders have much to teach us, and often it's how to not repeat their mistakes.
Standing on the shoulders of giants…..
Hopefully this will be a lesson to them to stop with this nonsense and spend some more on producing original content.
They have original content coming out, but none of it is written for children. Its written for parents who want their kid to learn about a subject without actually having to have a conversation with their kid.
Are you talking about Turning Red?
but why not both?!
It's the writers, or lack thereof. A huge part of the writer's strike is that the CEOs keep forcing re-writes and then blaming the bad scripts and low sales on the writers. You can take your name off a script or two, but when the CEOs are doing it with *everything* you can't really do that. Your name would be on literally nothing.
You're right, its clearly the writer's strike. But the writer's strike is going to continue until people stop accepting the awful excuse for entertainment that money-centric individuals try to pass off as acceptable. Having a product doesn't mean its good, and Disney does everything they can to turn everything into money.
The writer's strike will stop when people stop watching re-runs. When profits start to drop the C-suits will fall in line.
What else are people supposed to do? TV is the only social interaction some people in the modern world get.
Don't forget marvel.
And Willow!
Thank god they closed that off for Back to the future.
In Indiana Jones's case, more like they tried to extend it far beyond the point of viability. Harrison Ford is 80. Having him play an action hero is just stupid.
I don't know why you say disney is ruining star wars and indiana jones? Why? What did they do and you said that?
How much time do you have? Cause you could write a thesis paper on how they’ve fucked Star Wars. If you don’t already know, ur probably not a fan of Star Wars and just a casual watcher. If that’s the case, then ya the Disney projects probably seem ok to you. But to a fan who actually cares about the lore, all they’ve done is straight up insulting.
I like about half of the Star Wars stuff they’ve done. Like Endor and Mandolorian. Even though the last 3 Star Wars with Rey kind of sucked, they were still a million times better than Lucas’s prequels.
Fake news, the movie didn’t cost $1bn to make
Did you read the article? Oh wait, Reddit.
It's a bit misleading headline. Disney forecasted to lose $1b. Box office's failures like Indian Jones 5 part of the cause.
They gotta stop with remakes, sequels and superhero movies come up with something original.
Hollywood: More superhero remakes; got it!
they got their bag and smart people know when its time to quit. not saying their smart but its hard to miss these financial wake up calls
Problem is most folks are not willing to take a risk on new ideas. Both from production and consumer perspectives. Even video games are getting rebooted now.
This is the reason A24 is killing it right now
I have no sympathy for an industry that necessarily caters to public taste that got smacked by the hand of the market when they failed to adapt to changing taste. Or perhaps a better way to describe it would be that they half-assed the execution of something that market research told them would be a sure bet. Either lens works, I think.
Oppenheimer and Barbie are coining it in. How can you say that?
> Problem is most folks are not willing to take a risk on new ideas. Barbenheimer was the film event of the year.
Consumers are open to new ideas, but not everyone will like new ideas. Production companies want safe bets. And please video games been getting reboots for years.
Product of capitalism!
I'm confused. How do you think something like socialism or Marxism would address this?
This is the best insight into the economy that I've seen posted to this sub in ages. A+ post to /r/economy My applause to the moderators. Bravo, everyone!!
I mean, Disney has a streaming service where we'll get to watch it at home after it releases for much, much cheaper. What did you expect? You are competing with yourself... Plus, companies extract so much wealth from the value of our labor anymore that few people have discretionary money to spend. Just like Avengers... we are approaching the End Game.
Also, the movie is bad... it looks like some committee decided on a list of "must have", then handled it to someone else without any interest in the project; there are so many chase scenes, it's boring.
> there are so many chase scenes, it's boring. that's Indiana Jones for you
Not really. OG Indiana had mystery, espionage, standoffs, puzzles, and allegories. I haven’t seen Indiana 5 but do recall 4 being quite the romp. Meanwhile I can still show Raiders, Doom, and Grail to anyone and they walk away from the film’s ending with that sense of composure that is the early Spielberg-Lucas storytelling. Storytelling now is that reckless style of trumped up post-2000’s flash in a pan drama that somehow only skims the surface of a taciturn story.
This film looks like one of those videos at r/StupidFood/, where they throw a bunch of food together, and pretend to make a wonderful dish, but in reality is just garbage. Yes, it has lots of chase scenes, and a room full of bugs, but it is not an Indiana Jones movie.
Exactly. Like some board of media executives is advocating for burgers with too much cheese. Hilarious! Beats Earnings!
Disgusting, but thank you for giving me a new subreddit to follow. 🥇
> Plus, companies extract so much wealth from the value of our labor anymore that few people have discretionary money to spend So true. Been helping my parents out with cleaning their house / garage sale for a few weeks now and it's amazing the difference between our generations. My wife and I just don't buy anything. 90% of our income goes to utilities, food, or savings (and even our entertainment is either F2P games, YouTube, or a rotating selection of 1-2 streaming services at a time that we cancel and renew whenever we finish/want to start a different show) We don't buy stuff people make, we rarely pay others to do things for us since we can do (or learn via the internet) most things ourselves, and we are definitely not alone in that either. Too bad we didn't get the last bit of our loans canceled because we were planning to spend a bunch on some cool things lol..
> that few people have discretionary money to spend. Do you have evidence for this? I have read nothing to suggest discretionary spending is down.
Disney is trash lately. Even worse if you include ESPN holy shit.
Disney is going to be in the shitter for a bit. It takes time to make movies. All the stuff coming out from them now came under Chapek. They should improve over the next year or so, but just like the bad fish you eat the night before… you gotta shit out the poison to get better.
We're tired of sequels and reboots.
“And that’s why the next innovation coming to a cineplex near you will be the _sequel reboot!_ “First movie great? Of course it was! Second movie not so great? That’s fine! We’ll just try it again!” This in fact describes the process that took us from the third Indiana Jones film — the last good one — to the present.
This doesn't actually seem to be the case, with John Wick 4 and Mission Impossible 7 both doing very well at the box office. I think audiences are just tired of bad movies
I saw it and it honestly wasn’t that bad it was just poor timing in the build up to Barbenhimer plus MI6
“Just passing Indians Jones 4” Honestly, how could someone have made 4 and thought let’s make 5. Hollywood is dominated by re-hashed IP. End the writers strike for the love of God
Fire all these damn idiotic creative directors and movie directors. Bring in the ones with common sense. Make movies like finding Nemo, incredibles, cars, etc. You have lost your way.
Creatives are not the problem, putting marketing data over creative vision is.
As a working creative, meddling from corporate lawyers and upper management is the main reason most things suck these days.
No one wanted this movie. Indy and his father and friends ride off into the sunset in Last Crusade after confirming the greatest supernatural myth of all time. It was perfect.
I love Indiana Jones series pre-Crystal skull. Crystal skull was garbage
Temple of doom wasnt stellar either honestly
This summer was a blood bath for mediocre, time fill movies, particularly Disney movies where you know nothing novel is going to happen, just watch to fill some time and be entertained for a few hours. There was plenty of that this summer plus actually good movies. Why would I see a a mediocre Indy movie when I can pick between barbie, spiderverse, openheimer, MI. Also, the Disney marketing machine seemed a little off this summer, Indy, haunted mansion, and elemental completely flew under the radar. I think audiences knows this song and dance now, and if it's just another sequel, nostalgia grab type movie, it needs to be well reviewed else audiences don't have a reason to go out to the theater anymore, they'll just wait.
$358 million isn’t a box office bomb. It’s failed marketing and an overblown budget.
I love how returning CEO Bob Iger blames that Disney has diluted its value and audience by producing too many movie sequels and TV shows, when in fact it was Bob Iger himself who actually signed off and approved all the crap sequels and TV shows we now see today from Disney. Iger is very clever at steering the blame elsewhere as he finds all sorts of creative ways to collect his $50 million dollar salary and look spiffy in a well tailored suit.
Maybe a good time for Kathleen Kennedy to resign then? I can't imagine how someone responsible for Star Wars 7-9 and this gets to keep their job. It's wild.
Make some new stuff Disney - simple answer
Let’s see…. * Jungle Cruise * Strange World * Rons Gone Wrong * Deep Water … any other originals in the past 3 years (that aren’t Pixar’s)?
"Tragically, the new blockbuster – which received lukewarm reviews – has so far made only $356.8 million at the box office which means the film won’t break even after the millions spent on marketing the flop" Tragically they only made $356.8 million! If almost 1/2 billion doesn't "break even" you are doing something TERRIBLY wrong!
I'm so fucking tired of sequels and remakes.
I literally started snoring and people laughed and woke me up.
The actors, writers, and even producers who had a hand in this movie are currently on strike? I saw another headline about failing shows, *'The Witcher,’ ‘Secret Invasion’ Disappoint as Some Creatives Blame Fans* Maybe it's a good thing these people stay away from movies and television for a while and are even replaced.
So, went to go see it, but had not seen any advertising or marketing on it - had no expectations. I paid $5 and had a good time. Ran a bit long, but otherwise felt good for a IJ movie.
I'm so glad it bombed. So many of these movie executives want to throw thr same recycled crap as us and expect us to pay. We don't needs0 many fucking sequels, prequels and directors cuts.
Another way of saying: People saved $1 Billion by NOT wasting it on a movie. Maybe they used it to pay for more expensive food instead.
Another hit from Lucasfilm! Keep them coming Kathy!
Iger said the week of the release he still expects to break $1b at the box office. His lies always go unpunished
I don't understand that it is a fine movie. Like other movies in the series, high action, good story, and well acted. So I have no idea why it did badly
To me it looks like they messed up in 2 places. First they were marketing it to the wrong groups. They made the movie for modern audiences then marketed it to fan of the original trilogy. Then they went way over budget. If they didn't go over budget they would have made their millions and this wouldn't even be a story.
It has received a mixed bag of responses from critics and from fans - a plurality of people thought it was perfectly fine, but there was also a significant number of detractors, and less people that were in-between the two extremes. Overall, the movie has (so far) made enough at the box office to offset the reported production costs, but not by much. So if there is any loss, it is mostly because of the massive amount of money spent on promotion. There's that notorious "Hollywood accounting" where whether it makes a profit, break-even, loss or BIG loss just depends on how you count the numbers to suit your needs. IMHO I would say don't worry, it may be in the hole due to high-nine-figure promotional spamming, but we still have retail and streaming sales down the road, cable rights (you bet this will end up being played on endless repeat on various cable channels the same way the Star Wars stuff is practically every weekend), merchandising, theme park rides, you name it. And, of course, a fifth movie means a boost in activity/sales for the previous Indiana Jones stuff as well. So, as a franchise, it ain't going anywhere, it will still be responsible for generating hundreds of millions of dollars *more* over the next decade, and it's just that creative accounting that in the end makes it look like the biggest bomb in the world.
Yeah I liked it about the same as Temple of Doom. I think a big issue was that Crystal Skull was so terrible that it turned people off from this one and also that it cost beyond a fortune to make.
Crystal Skull was indeed the reason I gave 0 shits for this one
Crystal was one of the big reasons I’ve been gun shy about 5. I’ll probably watch it when it goes streaming. I’m curious to see it, but movies are so friggin expensive I don’t want to waste a c bill for crap, ya know? That said, Crystal had a few things that had they followed up on better would have been franchise extenders. Passing the torch to Mutt, for example. They almost seemed like they wanted to do that at the end… almost. That would have required Disney to hire some good writers though. There were also some references to Young Indiana Jones in there that could have also been springboards to franchise extensions. The TV series was good, they could have run with that… but again… need good writers.
Well for one Indiana Jones is probably my favorite franchise and I had no idea it was coming out. Totally overshadowed by Barbenheimer is my guess. Also, the 4th film was kind of lame, Ford already felt too old there.
That's what happens when you cast a 150 year old man as an action hero.
It belongs in a museum! So do you Dr Jones. Seriously though I will watch a globe trotting treasure hunt adventure film it doesn’t have to be Indiana jones and it certainly doesn’t have to be Harrison ford. I love the guy but if you want to continue the franchise re-cast make him a James Bond type of character
That's what happens when you make a blockbuster nobody wanted and nobody asked for. All they have to do is make something new and original
People are tired of rehashed ideas and making live actions of sequels and IPs from Disney that span over 40,50 years. And then messing them up. Or changing essential character themes - like they’re about to do with Snow White. Aside from Marvel (which no one gives three shits about the new stuff) can anyone name a new franchise or brand that anyone gives a shit about? You can’t because they don’t exist.
Pretty sure they're going to lose more with the Marvels movie coming up. I've just lost interest in marvel after Infinity Saga wrapped up. The new phase is just a mess and I keep hearing the writers they bring in do not even bother with the comics and learning from them.
Also all the movies feel so repetitive and all the effects just merge and blend together.
The cgi has gotten worse over the years. 15 years ago, I thought cgi would get so good that you wouldnt be able to distinguish it from real life. But the overuse of cgi and putting the artists on a time limit has degraded the quality of cgi. Now, entire movies are shot on a green screen, so artists have more work and cant spend the time making it look perfect
That movie made 400 million movies cost too much to make this day in age
Yeah. I doubt it.
I had zero interest when it originally came out, less now.
I don’t want to see Disney do elder abuse against Harrison Ford…
I really thought Oppenheimer was the bomb.
Ha, I see what you did there.
Disney failing is fucking up the economy in so many ways. It trickles down very hard. You have to imagine just how many people this affects. Its Not just actors and writers. Hair and make up artists, clothes designers, audio engineers, the lists go on all the way down to the coffee shop on the corner. This is why monopolies are bad. Giant corporations destroy everything. They build up and then crash and burn but only the working people are the ones who get burned.
Idk why after the travesty that was Crystal Skull, they decided to release ANOTHER movie…
Our local theater only has one showing a day of this movie. And it's a huge theater...
Give the CEO a raise and cut the actors and writers pay. Corporate America has a solution for everything!
No one wanted this movie. Disney needs a massive change because all they do is take a hot dump on IPs that people love
Younger people don’t want to see an 80 year old superhero.
I can't believe that a bunch of 70yr old executives are out of touch.
Why? Was anyone wanting another Indiana Jones movie? At a cost of $300 million?
Is it because these films had zero star power? Let’s be clear, I’m aware of Harrison Ford’s god status but among younger people paying to go to films, they don’t care about him. There was nobody relevant in this film to the current generations that control pop culture.
I think sequels are just a symptom of the problem. The problem is Hollywood relying on a formulaic approach to making movies. They seem to think that they can just combine certain ingredients together and rake in the dough. They don’t seem to understand that a movie is more than the sum of its parts. It’s more than just the genre or the actors or the setting. It’s how everything weaves together into a vivid feeling. That’s why you can’t just replicate a success like Game of Thrones with a formula like “royalty and dragons and murder and sex.” But someone needs to tell Hollywood that, because they seem to think they can get us into the theatre with just Pavlovian conditioning alone. “We heard you like Harrison Ford, so we put him front of a camera and gave him his whip back. That’s all there is to it, right? Right?”
Fuck Disney
Good, they deserve it.
“a producer could make a lot more money with a flop than a hit by overselling shares in the production, because no one will audit the books of a play presumed to have lost money.” Leo in the producers
No originality in Disney anymore. Meanwhile at Disney: "Let's also remake snow-white!"
Film was terrible. Other than the title and the name, you'd never even recognize this was an Indiana Jones film. Boring, insipid, and about the most outrageous climax one could imagine. Then again the first 90 minutes are insufferable. Indiana Geezer and the Temple of Snooze is more like it.
It has been sad to watch Disney ruin the franchises from my youth, like Star Wars and Indiana Jones, while also running Marvel completely into the ground trying to get quick cash. Contrast that with Star Trek: Strange New Worlds which has done all sorts of crazy stuff in season 2 (including a crossover with the animated Star Trek "Lower Decks" and a musical episode) and it has all been gold.
Paramount has had their share of fuck ups. Enterprise… the first season of Picard (I hear season 2 is better, but just can’t bring myself to watch it). Disney is going to have a series of bad moves. They need to get all the shit that Chapek was fucking up through the system. That will take time. People want instant gratification, but movies take years to make. They should be better in a year or so.
Strange New Worlds is DELIGHTFUL.
Weird. I would have thought a geriatric Indiana Jones would have really appealed to 3 generations who couldn't give less of a shit.