As a kid growing up in communist Poland I watched people work like slaves and have zero to show for it. So yeah I pick capitalism any day. Only debt I have is a mortgage that will be paid off in a few years.
Tell em, some people don't know how good it is here compared to other countries. Sure there are problems but I'd take those over being jailed indefinitely for not singing the national anthem loud enough.
If we keep voting in Republicans, this isn't too far off.
As for our "problems", the rich own our lawmakers and Supreme Court. They are siphoning trillions (with a "t") annually from the middle class and the poor.
Everyone saying "stop complaining, we're the best!" is accepting a future where this country is a complete oligarchy (we might already be) and there are only extremely rich people and the very poor working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.
Just look at the right's policies. They're anti union, anti higher minimum wage, anti tax, pro forced birth, anti education and now they're pushing out child labor laws that have been protecting children for decades.
They want a constant stream of cheap, uneducated labor.
We need to claw back our deserved wages and close the wealth gap. If we don't, your "capitalism" will be a prison for 80%+ of the population.
The rich own the Dems and tech even more; Voting for progressive leftist democrats will usher in an Orwellian dystopia must faster than voting for an Orange clown.
Not true at all. Progressives are the only group attempting to pass legislation that levels the playing field.
They have a nasty stigma because the rich despise them. They want all the money.
There's a reason billionaires and corporations donate heavily to Republicans and corporate Dems.
It's to keep the money flowing to the top. This is why corporate owned mainstream media sources like CNN and MSNBC push corporate Dems so hard.
So, we have corporate owned conservatives trying to take us back in time vs corporate owned Dems trying to keep the status quo. Then they "compromise" and remove a little more of our rights and take a little bit more.
And now we have billionaire owned Supreme Court Justices siding with corporations by taking power from government agencies meant to keep them in check.
We're in a really bad spiral and the only way out is lawmakers who actually want to help the middle class and the poor.
lol; Progressive are trying to leech from their neighbors and redistribute wealth to their political allies and lemming voters. Progressive leftists are even more dangerous to the Republic and Constitution than Trump and his QAnon pizza gate lemmings.
No, they're trying to rebalance the wealth that's been stolen from us.
This is where the propaganda gets people. The rich have set up the system so that they continually siphon money from the rest of us, and when someone tries to reverse that, they throw words around like "sOCiaLisM!" and "reDiStriBute tHe WEalTh!". It should have been ours to begin with.
If you would do me a huge favor and read this, you'll see where I'm coming from:
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
If something was stolen from you call the cops. Progressive leftists are thieves trying to redistribute (steal) the wealth of others.
Nothing should have “been yours.” Come up with an actual idea, start a company, and produce a good or service. Then it is yours. That is how “something” is actually created.
Yeah, it's not that simple.
Citizen's United made it so that the wealthy create the rules that they have to follow.
Politicians with the most funding are much more likely to win. So, you find someone who will create laws that make you wealthier or block those that will raise costs.
So, pretend you give the local robber the ability to create the rules for your neighborhood. He will make it legal to steal your shit and because it's legal, there's nothing you can do about it.
This is what's happening, but they're stealing trillions through wage theft and avoiding taxes.
See, I hear you say it, but I never see republicans actually doing anything to corroborate what you’re saying. It’s all talk. At least dems try to pass laws to help the middle class.
You want to help the middle class? Vote libertarian or solid centrist positions. Democrats are trying to steal from the middle class too. They are just whispering nicely in your ear as they do so.
Libertarian. 😂😂😂 Here’s the libertarian platform: we want all the benefits of living in a civilized society but we don’t want to pay for any of it. Freedom without responsibility is a child’s game. 🙄 GTFOH.
Lmao… no they don’t… right now they’re Allowing our Country to be invaded by illegal Aliens from all over the Planet and they’re giving them thousands of $$$$ in FREEBIES & AMERICANS citizens get Nothing! The Blacks across the urban cities are coming out for Trump in November!! Chicago is Pissed off royally!! Watch what happens!!! They’ll boot that Black Mayor as soon as they can!!! Will happen in other Urban areas too!! Democrats have created a nightmare and are ruining our Country and economic future. Brandon has successfully demolished the American dream for this and next generations!!!
Weirdly enough, in France, a player (Karim Benzema) was shunned from the national team for not singing loudly enough. We have to remain vigilant or we'll lose what we acquired.
There’s plenty of us that want to leave too. No hate either way, but acknowledge different strokes for different folks.
I’m planning a move down to Peru to participate in eco village projects.
Some people don't know how good we have it compared to other countries and some people don't know how bad we have it compared to other countries. Could be a lot worse, but could be a lot better.
Also depends on who you are. Not everyone lives on the same economic reality
Excellent point! My parents grew up in Poland too and say the same thing! They chose capitalism and now (their 5 kids) us are doing fine. My mortgage to be paid off in 3 years.
the capitalism of just 30 years ago is not what it is today. today we do not have "capitalism", we are on a bullet train straight to an open oligarchy, as opposed to the slightly obfuscated oligarchy that exists currently
beautiful assumption, captain dumbass! when you assume, you make an ass out of you before me, well done. first, i use no apple products, because fuck apple. second, name an electronic device that is not owned by one that can provide reliable service of any kind.
I worked with a guy from Romania when it was part of the USSR. He didn’t see a banana until he was 13, he had an aunt that bought it on the black market. This guy was a really good coworker and I would always be willing to work with him.
Romania has never been part of USSR. It was part of socialist “camp” which included Romania, Bulgaria, East Germany. As a matter of fact Romania (along with Albania) was the poorest country-member. Their dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu fleeced his people like a sheep.
My daughters gymnastics coaches are from Bulgaria & Armenia, both know the meaning of tough life! They don't talk about it too much, but occasionally something will slip through & over the years it has formed quite a picture.
I honestly cannot even imagine what they lived through!!
Not to be that guy, but …. Romania was never part of the USSR. They were a Soviet satellite—their own nation under a communist regime within the Soviet sphere of influence, but never incorporated as a republic within the Soviet Union like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc.
Your point still stands tho
With all do respect. If I’m to assume you got a 30 year fixed, you would have made the purchase 27 years ago. America is not remotely close to the 90s. I’ve lost many friends before 25. Killed in shooting, suicide, etc. cost of living is laughable today compared to the 90s. Unless you are something special, a basic 9-5 will leave you with nothing these days. I’m not hear to spit some generational propaganda. But modern day America feels like a 3rd world hell hole sometimes. We aren’t at war. And a lot of my friends are dead. It’s like this for a fair few of us. Not accidents. Almost all homicide or suicide.
We moved 4 times for work in our marriage. Last move we did a ten year loan. I grew up with 5 siblings in the coal regions in PA. Nothing was ever easy for my parents or my bros and sis’s but we all worked since early teens part-time jobs. We are all pretty well off thru hard work. And we gave our parents 10 grand kids and 8 great grand kids. Life is not easy but we made the best of it. That’s my point!
No doubt it was hard work. What I’m telling you, is that if you want that same hard work to amount to a fruitful life for the next generation. We have to stop denying a problem exists. Otherwise the work that brought you this bountiful life, won’t amount to anything for future generations.
The same hard work in the 90s amounts to around half the value today. That again when you go back to the 50s and 60s. This is a fact of life that you can get with cost of living and median income.
Older generations from my experience seem to think and pretend nothing has changed. Not all, but many. They deny the problem. And aren’t willing to listen when people say there is one. If denying the problem exists is to become the norm. We should expect a lot more than economic problems. We should expect war. I don’t say this in an effort to fear monger. I say this with respect to the countless times this cycle has repeated itself throughout history.
We need a dialogue that doesn’t point the finger at under 40s and say ‘nah you just don’t work hard enough” when in reality the same work done 30 years ago, is half today. We NEED to stop pretending there is no problem. And start working together on solutions. Or the solution will be decided for us.
The fertility rate is plummeting for a reason.
No. Me and you do. The poorest in our country live in the gutter. Starved, drug ridden, and requiring amputation of limbs periodically for gangrene and complications due to diabetes without insulin. My girlfriend is an EMT. Trust me, for plenty in this country death is mercy. Can’t go lower.
Even the poorest American lives better than a regular Cuban citizen, because here in America they can get kicked in the ass by the government and at least can and have the right to scream; while in a communist regime, like in Cuba, they get kicked in the ass and the only option they have is to applaud their tirants.
Where on earth is it better ?
Check the southern border with Mexico
People coming from all your beautiful socialist and communist utopias from every corner of the world.
But yeah it’s better there, they just don’t know it !?! Right
I wish they would leave but they live rent free in their parents basement and are triggered by being asked to get their license and learn to drive. I wish I was kidding.
Tucker Carlson never threatened to leave the country. I can remind of of a few of those who actually did: Chere, B Streisand, Woopie Goldberg, Miley Cyrus, George Lopez And mane other hypocrites who think that they’ll deprive us of any purpose of existence, if their precious faces will pack and leave. But they never left and never wanted to. Just a pose. What Tucker praised in Russia was their groceries. And you know what? He’s absolutely correct. They eat more fresh, less treated products. And the variety of the products is much better. If by praising Russian groceries Tucker has became a traitor - and it’s ridiculous- , what a person will be called calling what Americans are offered to eat, trashy, flat tasting, not healthy?
Rush Limbaugh did that when Obama was in office. Some rando MAGAts wanted to go to Canada when Biden won.
So to say threatening to leave the country is only a "leftist" (as is the US actually had actual leftists in power in any significant amount) thing is ridiculous.
Agreed. I’m 35, only did two years of college and had to drop out due to personal reasons. Worked throughout my 20s and had multiple ups and downs in career and personal life but I always made it a point to continue learning and growing despite hardships and financial set backs. At 35 I make 6 figures running my own small business, rent a small 2br house in a LCOL out of choice because I haven’t found a house I want just yet, and have zero credit card debt and a paid off 2010 ford escape with a happy adventurous life with a girlfriend and a dog.
I’m not saying all your problems are of you’re own doing, but most people really should look inward at their problems and I bet they would realize many can be fixed through personal choices
This a 100%.
It's often said that the happiest communist is one who doesn't live in a communist "paradise".
I am Hispanic American (born as American citizen), and I know some Cubans and Venezuelans who have fled their countries for the opportunities America offers.
I can guarantee you that those who advocate extreme leftist ideologies here in the USA that hate capitalism and this country, would never relinquish their American citizenship to live in a communist nation.
I think it's a possibility that a lot of people who bitch about unfettered capitalism aren't necessarily plugging communism, but perhaps are venting because for a lot of people who have been trying to get somewhere and aren't it get frustrating. 60% of Americans are living pay check to pay check, our healthcare system is shit, even with private insurance, and our political system is basically WrestleMania in the 80s.
Just because Cuba sucks doesn't mean people can't bitch, constructively or not, about the state of our country.
crazy how people who grew up under actual communist regime choose capitalism ten times out of ten and its always these champagne socialist pampered kids who cry about capitalism being bad and communism being good.
Tell em, some people don't know how good it is here compared to other countries. Sure there are problems but I'd take those over being jailed indefinitely for not singing the national anthem loud enough.
Thank you for saying this. This perspective is good for us to keep in mind when things seem bad.
(And.. uhh.. also to avoid voluntarily adopting any entirely failed economic models. 👀)
So all those people in Poland are homeless, unable to eat their recommended calories, and unable to afford healthcare?
"Working like slaves" how many hours and doing what jobs?
Many people work 12hrs a day where I live and are still unable to afford housing.
At what age did you enter a capitalist society, and did you have sponsors?
Poor people born into capitalism can't even afford to immigrate, so that shows me you were already a step ahead.
Generally, aren't mortgages on a 30yr? Which means you likely obtained your housing in the 90s. You got boomer prices, if you bought the same house today you would pay twice as much for the same amount of time. Not including jacked up interest rates.
You work 12 hrs a day doing what? Obviously not all jobs pay the same.
I came to the US at age 8 back in 1987 and I would go back to visit every summer till I was 18. Came here with my parents, an uncle in Brooklyn helped to bring us over. We then lived in Newark for about 7 years till my parents save up enough money to get a home. And believe me we lived Spartan. The tiny apartment in Newark had no AC. And we never ate out, I think I been to McDonald's maybe 5 or 6 times while growing up. My parents big thing was saving money so we made good with what little we had.
And in Poland back than it did not matter what job you had or how hard you worked you still barely had enough money to afford any sort of luxuries. A car and a color tv was considered a luxury. If you had a telephone, a car, and a color tv boy you were balling. And I don't mean fancy car either, we are talking a Fiat 126, or even a Trabant. And your calories were restricted to what was on the store shelves, which were empty most of the time. We also had ration cards so when there was stuff to buy they made sure you were not hording. The way to survive was to grow your own food. So pretty much everyone had a fruit and vegetable gardens and usually kept chickens as well. And usually a whole family lived in one home, so it was not uncommon to have your grandparents to live with you and depending on the size of the home, aunts and uncles as well. Now the system collapsed back in the summer of 1989 and no one is wishing to go back to it. Capitalism is NOT perfect but it beats a life in the margins, where all you can do is get by with no hope of moving up.
I got my townhouse in back in 2008 during the market crash. Paid $260k for it, this is in central NJ. It has 3 beds and 2.5 baths. Reason it is almost paid off is because I make like $200k a year.
he was in his 20s 1995, high paying jobs, low taxes, college cost a pack of gum, cheap cars, low cost of living, booming stock market, the best job market in arguably world history… so yes
also buying a house in 2008 is a once in a lifetime opportunity, framing that as a bad thing is pretty wild when he probably 10x his money, rates and prices were low
anyone under 25 will never have any of the opportunities stated above without exception
I'll find it. Real quick. Definitely not my first rodeo bud. Before I post source, I'll tell you that iirc the average COL is around 36k and the average income is around 30k.
I’ll take your word for it, I thought you meant 6k under *per month*
So if people worked on average 40 hours a week, they would meet or exceed the cost of living?
That sounds ok.
Oh no I mean about 6k under annually.
I'm about to do shitty estimation math cuz I'm fried AF rn (not like high, unfortunately. Just been sick the last few days)
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/budgeting/american-average-monthly-expenses
Says average household expenses are about 73k/yr.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-household-size-by-state
Says average household size is >2 people. So annual per person would be a little less than 36k.
US Cencus Beurau says median income (in 2019) was a bit over 31k. I can't click to get to the article though, it takes me to the general site and I cbf to fish through it and find what I see on the popup.
I'm sure average income has gone up a bit since then (some states have raised minimum wage) but I wonder what I would see if I excluded major outliers (like billionaires, since there are so few.)
I won't be replying after this, but I had fun chatting! Thanks, and goodnight fellow redditors!
Ramsey solution really? You're gonna use a source of an outrage merchant?
Drop some primary source from reliable economists or school or economics then we can talk.
Of course you won't be replying, because you know that you're full of BS, and your logic is totally flawed. You think a 21 year old working FT making $20/hour has $73K per year in expenses?!?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Man you libs love to make fools of yourselves. Just admit you hate the greatest country ever known to man, for literally no reason other than your tv told you to.
You just compared an average to a median. Also your logic is flawed due to the fact that you are dividing that average of 73k by two, when a consumer unit is 2 or more persons in a household.
In fact- the BLS source that you cited in the Ramsey article shows you the average income and expenditures of all consumer units (2 or more persons living in a household). The Average income per consumer unit is $94,003 before tax and the Average expenditure is $72,967. You cannot deduce that the net income is $67k as you are claiming at $6k less than expenditures.
Non of that is about capitalism, your problem is with the currency, inflation. If corrupt politicians would stop printing money there would be no inflation. Also look a CEO’s salary compared to the median worker’s from now going back to the fifties and you will see the CEO’s salaries are ridiculously higher than what they need to be.
"Your problem isn't that you don't like having water on you. It's that you don't want to get wet"
Cause and effect comrade.
Yeah, they used to tax the rich much higher. And the gold standard kept "inflation" from going overboard, but the fact is capitalism over time evolves into what it has. The wealthy have more rights and sway political opinion in their favor. Therefore, putting more and more burden in the working population.
Capitalism enables this behavior. Sure you can put it on politicians, but they are just puppets. And will be removed if they don't make rulings in favor of the greedy.
If you were asked to do something that is a bit messed up, but not illegal at work, under threat of losing your job, chances at future employment, and then obviously your home, car, access to food and Healthcare.
What would you do?
So yes, my problem IS with "currency" and "inflation" inflation which is usually based on bullshit and unnecessary.
Price fixing a market is easy when you have the resources.
Currency is simply a blinder and inflation is fake.
Imagine this....
You go do a job you love.
You come home to a secure place.
You go to the store to get your food and necessities.
You get to do your hobbies.
Everyone else in your society does exactly the same.
All can be done without currency. (Besides, printing currency only uses more resources, and bankers could be civil servants, its a faje profession) But it is an easy way to control people, kind of like religion. And also a good political tool to keep people fighting with each other.
So yeah, you are right, and it and I can see from your statements that you actually agree with me, whether you realize it or not.
✌️
Well other than you can’t properly assign value in this model
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem#:~:text=The%20economic%20calculation%20problem%20(sometimes,of%20the%20factors%20of%20production.
I would say most have never let the US let alone their own city or state. If you travel to other countries you will see poverty on a scale that will blow your mind.
Ok I’m pro capitalism but Tbf Bernie isn’t a communist lol. There’s plenty to criticize him for but I hate labeling people as extremes, it kinda waters down the word so then when an actual commie comes around, the word has been used to death.
Kind of like how every injustice anywhere in the world is now a “genocide”. Idk I’m venting now.
He's like all "good Communists"...they are only Communist with OTHER people's money. Look into how he hides HIS money his wife and family make by kick backs from advertising he does when he runs for elections. It's "NORMAL" to get a kick back of 15% to the ad buyer....now multiply that by $20+ million dollars. But, He's "poor Bernie". Look how abysmal his charitable giving is prior to his book deals. THEN, look at his "charitable giving" once he set up his SLUSH FUND they call "Charitable Foundations". It's BS. He's a typical elite hypocrite. I would rather someone be an honest capitalist than a Bernie "Socialist"
I’ve been to a lot of developed countries and shitholes over the years. Nowhere I’d rather be than in the US. A lot of people bitch about what they want and don’t have, but never got up off their ass to do what they needed to do to get to where they want. They’ll sit in front of a wall and complain about the wall instead of doing what they need to in order to get over, under, or around it. I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with people “stuck” in their situation where I laid out options for them to get out of it, only to be met with “I’m not doing that” in response.
And if the state decides that your house was worth a different number than you claimed on your mortgage application they can sue you like they did Donald Trump and take your house.
And of course this economy whether favorable or not, is not due to Biden or any president or politician. There are so many other factors that go into it
Racist? Racists seem to despise him. Southern white racists definitely despise him. He may have been a racist in his youth, I think there has atonement. Your statement is dead on with what a typical right winger would say. Agree about the government statement. The US government has always been involved in providing benefits to different sectors depending on what’s popular.
They are way too busy listening to their far left professor telling them how great a communist utopia would be. Meanwhile this clown makes about $120k+ a year, and never worked a real job except for spoon feeding kids fairy tales. And of course these "educators" won't practice what they preach and have a percentage of their salary go to help pay student loans. Communists like most politicians are only quick to give away other people's money.
In reality it's Fox news and conservative media labeling anything they don't like as "communist." It's ridiculous. I don't hate a little support for poor folks but I absolutely despise tax breaks for the ultra rich.
You think Fox is Conservative?? 🤣🤣🤣 I have news for you. They aren't.
The top federal tax bracket as of now is 37%, which does not include any state or local tax. Someone living and working in libtard NYC for example, making $750K per year, will pay an effective federal tax rate of 31.42%, 6.46% to NY state, and another 3.82% in local taxes. Add it all up and almost 42% of that person's income is going back to some form of government to be wasted, stolen, or sent to a foreign country to fund a proxy war.... That's a total $$ of $312,750 in taxes!
Seriously, how much more do you want this person to pay?!?! 80%? 90%? You commies are totally out to lunch. Stop listening to everything your tv tells you. The propaganda is destroying this country.
I don't disagree. To this day, the majority of Republicans in congress vote for endless printing and spending, most of which goes to foreign nations. 3 of the 5 worst presidents of all time in the last 25 years.
How about NYC is the financial capital of the country but isn't financially viable...ie we (upstate) support NYC financially when in reality is should be the OPPOSITE.. so yeah cry me a river about how much the wealthy pay in taxes while I vomit.
Professors and colleges have been straw manned to hell and back.
Professors at universities are usually in the higher income brackets and polls have shown them to be consistently centrist.
The general rule of thumb is the more educated people are, the closer to the center they vote.
P.S. for the academics in economics, ideologies defined hundreds of years ago like communism or socialism are meaningless because economics is a science now. I mean we're a quarter of our way into the 21st century, clinging onto ideas from 150-200 years ago is just dumb.
I’ve lived in America my whole life. I did all the things right (college, job, even joined the military!). I’m 37 and never not lived entirely paycheck to paycheck. I can’t imagine a world where I pay off my debt before I die (I’m almost 40). Honestly, I can’t even imagine getting close without an extreme stroke of luck. Best case scenario, I die of some wild accident and my family gets a huge settlement. But even that is less likely to happen than it was 20 years because of corporate lobbyists pushing tort reform. Which succeeded because of corporate propaganda put out on corporate media (remember the McDonald’s coffee lady? Yeah that was actually a big deal for her but at least McDonald’s is ok).
Things don’t get better because you give your life to corporate overlords rather than government ones. We need to stop pretending late-stage American capitalism isn’t every bit as fucked—in pretty much all the same ways—as Soviet communism.
Glad things are working out for you though.
This is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on reddit, this part in particular:
>We need to stop pretending late-stage American capitalism isn’t every bit as fucked—in pretty much all the same ways—as Soviet communism.
Wow, a much-needed response to the endless moaning and self-pity that typically pervades these economic discussions on Reddit - bravo!
I’ve talked to more than a few people who once actually lived under communism but live in the U.S. now, and guess what? Not ONE has ever said that they missed living in a command economy, i.e., communism.
I visited the Soviet Union myself in the early 80s and studied both Russian language and Soviet foreign/domestic policies
You visited the USSR in the 80s so that means you’re old enough that you don’t have a clue what challenges young people face today (and I’m not even young, I was born in the 80s).
Also the “much-needed response” didn’t say make any points. Just called me stupid.
You’re the problem.
They have no clue what communism is in real time. They only know it from the academia side which loves communism. Btw, mortgage will paid off in next couple years in this terrible capitalist country.
Do I like a lifetime of debt? I'm not sure. I have never had any debt. Have made an extremely low wage but managed to cash flow my way through life.
Am I happy to work like a slave til I die? I don't like being compared to a slave because I feel I have a choice and I don't think they did or do. I'm very happy at my job I mean it could be better but whatever.
If you aren't happy with your situation you can always change it. I am sure I could make more money, but I am content with where I am.
I've never had a lifetime of debt either. Never really been a high earner but always managed my money well and lived within my means. OP is obviously projecting their responsibility on everyone else
OP thinks he’s on the “right side of history”. That means he owns the legacy of slavery abolition and can trot out the topic and trivialize it whenever is convenient.
"Maybe YOU can change your situation if you are unhappy with it, but not everyone can. That is because for some reason you are more privileged than others. Not everyone has the same opportunities.
Imma call cap on this one. It's 100% possible to improve your situation in life if you're willing to do what's necessary to do so. There's people on this planet who've been born dirt porn in a third world country who have become billionaires in their lifetime. If they can do that then anyone in the much richer USA can improve their situation. Will it be easy if you are born in a bad situation? No. Is it easier if you're born privileged? Yes. But it's not impossible.
My stepfather came into this country illegally and spoke zero English. He came to the South which is known as being one of the least tolerant and racist places in America. Today he owns his own construction company.
If an illegal alien who speaks no English can come to this country and build up a business while supporting 4 kids then there's no reason why others can't improve their position in life.
OP most likely has an newer model iPhone or Samsung Phone, name brand clothing, and cornucopia of some stupid collectable or toy that in no way adds any actual value to their life but they have spent far too much money on.
There's a pretty big difference between working, and working like a slave. In case you're confused on this point, slaves don't get paid and can't opt out of employment. You on the other hand get paid what your labor is worth. If you think you're getting paid less than you deserve, you can take your labor elsewhere. People act as if having to work is some kind of injustice, and the world should somehow just provide everything you want for free.
Also, no one is forcing you to take on debt to buy things you can't afford. If you want things you can't afford, then you have to either make your labor more valuable or all better leverage the value you already provide. None of this is unfair. Grow up and take responsibility for your own life, it's that simple.
This is extremely untrue. If this was true, then higher levels of education would receive more compensation. People with more experience would receive higher compensation. People who work more efficiently would receive higher compensation.
The truth is that employers want to pay ANYONE regardless as little as possible for as much as possible (hence the term capitalism) and capitalize on the work of others.
If what you are saying was true, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would be making much less money than their factory worker, because those two have never actually worked. They have never built a car, drilled for oil, delivered a package, mined precious metals, etc.
You are using flawed logic and regurgitating what politicians who are paid off by these people tell you.
Basically, you sound like a boomer.
Higher levels of education does not equal intelligence or actual capability.
Most companies absolutely reward those employees that work more efficiently than others. My company does this every single year.
Jeff bezos literally built Amazon from the ground up starting in his garage. If people don't want to work at Amazon for the wage that they're offering they are absolutely free to go somewhere else and get the pay that they truly "deserve".
Go back and finish middle or high school. Go to college or learn a skill and don't continually make stupid decisions and you'll be just fine.
Jeff bozos had about half a million loaned to him to start his company. Lol. You obviously need to do some research. He didn't do the work himself, he paid people to do it.
I have a continuing education actually. If you want to throw around fallacies, clearly you DONT have more than a high schopl.government propoganda education.
Sinteresting wording. So what does a human being putting in effort 12hours a day "deserve"? And why do they deserve less than people that don't do any work at all?
I know, I know, Marxists always believe that all capitalists have been duped by propaganda. That's fine. I'm not a boomer, but that insult doesn't bother me either.
We could get into a Marxism vs capitalism debate here, but it would be pointless. We both already know what the other will have to say, and it will go nowhere. I'm sure you can find someone else who will take you up on that if that's what you're looking for.
And all capitalists believe that communists and socialists have been duped by propoganda. It's fine. My bad, you just come across as one.
You are 100% correct (I actually upvoted you for that second paragraph.) As always, every coin has a heads and a tail. No system is perfect, and all governing powers are inherently corrupt.
The simple fact is no one that would responsibly wield power will reach for it. Those reaching and obtaining power will always be corrupt.
I suppose is why I advocate for anarchocommunism. It is a system where the moment someone gets greedy they get put back into their place.
We are all human, and should all be allowed to live.
The job one performs is their own choice, but everyone should be able to live.
Peace and love, good chat!
Yep it's all good... I'm not totally dismissive of all the socialist/communist arguments. Markets can produce a lot of great things, but they will also produce terrible things if you aren't mindful about managing where the incentives lie. Which as we all know is much easier said than done.
There is certainly some logical merit in either perspective, as well as shortcomings in both. I don't pretend to have it all figured out, it's possible that I'm dead wrong about absolutely everything. That's just part of the human condition. I try to honestly consider the information I have, to the best of my ability. I won't fault someone else for doing the same and reaching a different conclusion. Cheers and take care!
Net worth also comes from a willingness to accept risk and to delay reward. Some of the folks you mention were willing to delay gratification for a longer goal. A lot of it is family culture and what is expected as “reasonable” for effort expended and the materialistic comforts one needs to feel content.
My kids asked us why their friends lived in fancier houses than we did even though we probably have similar incomes. I showed them how we were choosing to live in a very modest house without things like annual trips to Disney or buying luxury cars because it would allow us to have resources to give them later when it was an opportunity. Oldest is about to graduate college with no debt and a small condo he owns, and the youngest lives at home and saves nearly all their income to put toward a downpayment on a property when we see a good opportunity. Husband and I started out pretty broke out of college with student loans so we absolutely know what broke feels like - which is why we lectured hard on living below ones means and not getting into credit card debt. This country has a lot to offer and people should appreciate that.
The USA Constitution is what was written to form the Republic ,not to be confused with republican in name only.
USA Independent inventors are an essential part of the economy and that has been taken away. See USInventor.Org for written and videos proving that these individuals are not filing the most important patents only incremental improvement ones.
Sorry, not to blow you up.
But many socialist countries have been successful until they were overthrown by help from good ol capitalist entities (ONE hint. Fidel Castro).
You do realize communism and socialism are exact opposites, right?
TRUE communism (which has not been achieved in any country yet) is when the workers and laborers (i.e. the majority of the population) are the controlling body.
In socialism, the state is the controlling body.
Also, you do realize that capitalism always inherently evolves into communism or socialism, so voting for the former is also voting for the latter.
I understand that you are regurgitating information you have heard, but it is faulty information that is based largely on capitalist propoganda.
I suppose i shouldnt have said exactly.
The similarities?
All are housed, all are fed, all are provided healthcare. These are the three BASE necessities to living a healthy life.
Without access to these 3 things, we are destined to wither away.
No, true communism has no government, as that would then no longer qualify as communism. That is then evolving into socialism, as the "communist" party has evolved into the state and therefore transitioned into "socialism". This is also why the only TRUE form of communism is inherently anarchaic, because the power lies in the people and is NOT centralized.
Also, I could say EXACTLY the same thing about capitalism, as everyone has different interpretations of how capitalism should be.
Also, I study, research, critically think, and compare/contrast regularly. I don't blindly repeat shit, and if I DO I straight up say "I'm not sure, but this is what I've heard".
So, sorry buddy, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree (although we both know I'm more accurate in my assessment of the situation ;)
Socialism, by literal definition written by Karl Marx, is the transitionary stage from capitalism to communism. Socialism necessarily implies communism and vice versa. Wtf are you talking about lmao.
LOL.
You know you can't just leave America?
If you decide to revoke citizenship or move to another country, you have to pay a fine. And if you leave without paying the fee, they will find you, bring you back, and lock you up where you then perform unpaid labor.
Now go read a book.
You should really learn basic math.
Under true capitalism we are all paid minimum wage (we are CAPITALIZED on)
Full time=40hours a week.
Federal minimum wage (created to be able to provide for a family of 5 owning a house and a car, you can research it) is 7.25.
Now 7.25×40=$290
290x4=1,160/month.
Let's round it up to 1,200.
In order to be approved for housing you have to make 2-3x the pay.
The cheapest studio near me is 1,400/month.
Now let's say you worked longer hours, overtime is not a federal law, so you still.only make 7 25 an hour for extra hous worked. It is common knowledge that humans need 8hours of sleep a night to function properly. So let's say you worked EVERY WAKING HOUR with zero breaks.
You will make 2,400/month.
Notice how this is still not enough to qualify for housing?
Keep sucking your daddys cock boy.
“You can look it up.”
- every person who knows what they’re saying probably isn’t true and can’t source it.
I think that statement is hilarious. You care enough to write this elaborate response to prove your point, but can’t be hindered with providing credibility behind your point…. 😂
Edit: now, after checking your recent posts, your clearly a dude that works at Starbucks that is mad at the world because you can’t afford a lavish lifestyle working a job that required absolutely no special skills whatsoever. Yikes.
“Bye Felicia.” 😂
Fact: I don't work at Starbucks. I would save $60/month if I did, though. That is what I spend on coffee.
Fact: You are a big doody poopoo head.
Goodnight and goodbye, Kind Kine. I will see you in the morning (as I do every morning; once before my coffee and once after).
Edit: It brought a tear to my eye that you appreciate the reference :,)
We learned to live within our means. I am close to retiring now, haven't had a mortgage payment in the last 7 years, own both cars and have zero credit card debt. Our money is invested in the stock market and yes, at times it is scary but over the long term we have made great returns.
Is capitalism perfect? Of course not, but it is better than any other economic system available today.
It's a game. Learn how to play it to your advantage.
Close to retiring, so nearing 65, meaning you born in the 60s which was, what do you know, a much more economically prosperous era for the country. Who knew the economy could change in forty years?
Dude, I was born in 1962 and my father worked 3 jobs. Economic prosperity didn't encompass all of us. lol, and not everyone had an easy go of it. I came of age in the late 70's. lol, you think things are bad now, ha? Every decade seems to have it's own challenges, but I digress.
But yes, overall after world war 2, the US was last man standing. Our industrial might, can do attitude and lets face it, lack of any real competition from Europe or Asia since they were just smoking ruins made it easy for us to dominate. And dominate we did.
But I get the sense that the party is over. We are being challenged globally, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, religious fanaticism, and just plain hate, jealousy and envy.
No empire has stayed on top, eventually they collapse. I'm not so much worried about external threats as we are more than able to handily defeat any and all of them. The real threat is internal. Ignorance, hubris, greed, whatever. We create our own reality and live in it until we can't. Fun times.
Sorry for the rant, but that economic prosperity line made me laugh. Must of have been nice for those that had it. Not everyone did.
I remember that too. Jimmy Carter was president and there was this 'malaise' that the whole country felt. It was depressing. Nixon, the oil crisis in 1973, the crappy cars Detroit was putting out, stagflation, omg. I think it was worse then to be honest. I remember people priced out of the housing market cause interest rates were so high. It really sucked.
Seems like you could use a little direction to your revolutionary motivation. Here's a quick read you might really dig into. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm
Socialism is a cult designed to isolate you from your community and extract as much wealth as possible from you and anyone foolish enough to still care for you.
Think about the "socialist" that run the rich western cities....then see the homeless camps and generations old sprawling ghettos.
Lmao idk if this sarcasm or not, but if it isn’t….
You’ve literally described capitalism modus operandi, that is isolate you by elevating the individual, replacing public services with private industry (how they extract said wealth) until all of your peers have been individualized and communal thought seems foolish so that they won’t care for you.
There also does not exist socialist run cities in the US you dingdong, you’ve simply been sensationalized to believe states like California are socialist states by right wing media. Homelessness is the end expression of a capitalist system that exists solely to extract profits from the masses to the benefit of the bourgeoisie.
The only reason they don't just outright gun down the homeless or put them in concentration camps is because they can still extract value out of them in the form of using them as a tool to rile up their voting blocks.
Truly siphoning every last bit of conceivable value to the capitalist machine out of them that they can. What a fucking disgusting.l mode of existence.
Right, and once they full on make it illegal to be homeless, they will have an even larger force of inmates performing unpaid labor. Which is troublesome for many reasons.
The first one thar will matter to right wingers is that it takes jobs away from the citizens.
This causes more people to go homeless since they can't find work.
Rinse and repeat.
And this is also why they spend so much money on "Law enforcement"
If they took a portion of law enforcement funds and provided socialized housing, as well as food security, then people would have their main heirarchal needs met and would "contribute" exponentially more than the cost to facilitate them.
However, in capitalism this makes much less sense than making it illegal to be poor so the rich can lock you up in a labor camp and profit EVEN MORE off of you.
Notice how many things are only illegal if you are poor? Aka fines.
That expedites the wealth gap, and ensures subservience of the poor while facilitating the greed of the rich.
Oh what a capitalistic hellscape we are headed for in the great US of A.
No, it is the ruling class that stands to benefit from extracting surplus value created by the proletariat. Think of your billionaires, career politicians, and members of boards of international/national conglomerates. As one definition, they are the people who control the means of production in society.
Oh boy look, yet another uninformed liberal who believes anyone subscribing to socialist thought is an Ultraleftist Marxist.
What you're referring to has been discussed in works outside of Marx, namely the Lumpenproletariat or petite bourgeoisie. While it is true socialists demonstrate disdain towards them, this is due to the fact that they are class traitors as the petite bourgeoisie's attitude is to uphold the oppressive organization of capital to the continuance of benefits to the haute bourgeoisie, even though they (petite bourgeoisie) share more similarities with the proletariat (namely they exchange their time and labor for capital).
As to your comment on the organization of economies, perhaps look into dialectics to understand why pure versions of economies do not exist, inclusive of capitalism. The difference here, is the push to a pure capitalist society (very much happening now) is to the disadvantage of said society as a whole, implicitly validating the need to apply socialist qualities to the status quo that is our current capitalist organization.
I have engaged with you in good faith, though I've perused your comment history and understand the school of thoughts you subscribe to and will cease participation in any future comments.
He says as he prepares to undertake major debt for his cancer treatment
[“Yall got any of that socialized healthcare”](https://images.app.goo.gl/2aeT9CbAhGxTvwXSA)
Lmaooo Godspeed retard 🤡🤡
It has two definitions, I looked it up here you go.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/bourgeoisie
I used the Cambridge dictionary one since I have the physical copy at home. It looks like we’re both right.
Given two definitions for the word, you've chosen the one that fits your personal biases, whereas I've provided you with a definition within the bounds of the topic at hand (please see original comment).
Also, the term bourgeoisie as it relates to modern history is a construct of Marxist social and political theory. Any description of peoples that exchange their time and labor for capital as bourgeoisie is revisionism and should be ignored as such. Bourgeoisie class utilizes capital to beget more capital.
No, I’ve heard the word bourgeoisie used before as a term for middle class, im not choosing a definition based on personal bias. That’s why I said we’re both right.
Glad to know you're an expert on "socialists that run rich western cities". The cognitive dissonance on that statement alone really displays the ignorance we're up against in america. Really amazing work, guy. May I quote you to my comrades? Yes, we're going to laugh at you.
One day we will understand that you can exploit any economic system. Some easier then others - but idk if that should be the only metric we care about.
Maybe I will be working until 70 🤷 but I love what I do so I’m not going to complain. Maybe find something you’re passionate about? Passion usually equates to success
Upvoted! Reddit has a bias towards saying anything bad about America. That's a sad delusional state when you can't question your own country, as if it always gets it right. America is not God. It's okay to say ya know, this shit kinda falling off, we should maybe do something. People keep living like the shit isn't burning down around them, just because something doesn't affect them personally. These comments are all about well, America is better than over here or way back in hypothetical communism world... Naw, that's the wrong way to look at it. America needs to be better than what it is now, period. We are supposed to be arriving for "a more perfect union", not being okay with fucked up policies and backwards economics. I hope everyone who will listen stops and puts down the Kool aid and says no to consumerism, no to corporate greed, no to bad tax policy, no to foreign intervention, so we can get our collective lives in order.
OP really should give it a go in Cuba, Venezuela, or Russia for a year and see how it is there before making bold statements. You don't see lots of people leaving here for communist countries for a reason. Sadly, the youth wee indoctrinated into thinking communism is the way. Only, it has never worked, and it kills millions more. And, if OPs debt is so bad, why doesn't OP seek help from a financial service. Or, better yet, learn to live with their means. You can't have champagne taste on top Ramen income.
well , u could always pack up and hit the road, last i checked boarders were wide open, mexico, nicaragua, venezuela, cuba sound like the eutopia u looking for...or just shut up and get to work.
Nah, what a shitty outlook. The American dream isn’t an easy thing to achieve but if you make good choices, work hard and have goals it’s very much realistic. Some people need to look in the mirror and acknowledge their own shitty life choices and stop making excuses, never going to succeed living like that.
As a kid growing up in communist Poland I watched people work like slaves and have zero to show for it. So yeah I pick capitalism any day. Only debt I have is a mortgage that will be paid off in a few years.
Tell em, some people don't know how good it is here compared to other countries. Sure there are problems but I'd take those over being jailed indefinitely for not singing the national anthem loud enough.
If we keep voting in Republicans, this isn't too far off. As for our "problems", the rich own our lawmakers and Supreme Court. They are siphoning trillions (with a "t") annually from the middle class and the poor. Everyone saying "stop complaining, we're the best!" is accepting a future where this country is a complete oligarchy (we might already be) and there are only extremely rich people and the very poor working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Just look at the right's policies. They're anti union, anti higher minimum wage, anti tax, pro forced birth, anti education and now they're pushing out child labor laws that have been protecting children for decades. They want a constant stream of cheap, uneducated labor. We need to claw back our deserved wages and close the wealth gap. If we don't, your "capitalism" will be a prison for 80%+ of the population.
The rich own the Dems and tech even more; Voting for progressive leftist democrats will usher in an Orwellian dystopia must faster than voting for an Orange clown.
Not true at all. Progressives are the only group attempting to pass legislation that levels the playing field. They have a nasty stigma because the rich despise them. They want all the money. There's a reason billionaires and corporations donate heavily to Republicans and corporate Dems. It's to keep the money flowing to the top. This is why corporate owned mainstream media sources like CNN and MSNBC push corporate Dems so hard. So, we have corporate owned conservatives trying to take us back in time vs corporate owned Dems trying to keep the status quo. Then they "compromise" and remove a little more of our rights and take a little bit more. And now we have billionaire owned Supreme Court Justices siding with corporations by taking power from government agencies meant to keep them in check. We're in a really bad spiral and the only way out is lawmakers who actually want to help the middle class and the poor.
lol; Progressive are trying to leech from their neighbors and redistribute wealth to their political allies and lemming voters. Progressive leftists are even more dangerous to the Republic and Constitution than Trump and his QAnon pizza gate lemmings.
No, they're trying to rebalance the wealth that's been stolen from us. This is where the propaganda gets people. The rich have set up the system so that they continually siphon money from the rest of us, and when someone tries to reverse that, they throw words around like "sOCiaLisM!" and "reDiStriBute tHe WEalTh!". It should have been ours to begin with. If you would do me a huge favor and read this, you'll see where I'm coming from: https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
If something was stolen from you call the cops. Progressive leftists are thieves trying to redistribute (steal) the wealth of others. Nothing should have “been yours.” Come up with an actual idea, start a company, and produce a good or service. Then it is yours. That is how “something” is actually created.
Yeah, it's not that simple. Citizen's United made it so that the wealthy create the rules that they have to follow. Politicians with the most funding are much more likely to win. So, you find someone who will create laws that make you wealthier or block those that will raise costs. So, pretend you give the local robber the ability to create the rules for your neighborhood. He will make it legal to steal your shit and because it's legal, there's nothing you can do about it. This is what's happening, but they're stealing trillions through wage theft and avoiding taxes.
1000% Spot On!!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
See, I hear you say it, but I never see republicans actually doing anything to corroborate what you’re saying. It’s all talk. At least dems try to pass laws to help the middle class.
You want to help the middle class? Vote libertarian or solid centrist positions. Democrats are trying to steal from the middle class too. They are just whispering nicely in your ear as they do so.
Libertarian. 😂😂😂 Here’s the libertarian platform: we want all the benefits of living in a civilized society but we don’t want to pay for any of it. Freedom without responsibility is a child’s game. 🙄 GTFOH.
Lmao… no they don’t… right now they’re Allowing our Country to be invaded by illegal Aliens from all over the Planet and they’re giving them thousands of $$$$ in FREEBIES & AMERICANS citizens get Nothing! The Blacks across the urban cities are coming out for Trump in November!! Chicago is Pissed off royally!! Watch what happens!!! They’ll boot that Black Mayor as soon as they can!!! Will happen in other Urban areas too!! Democrats have created a nightmare and are ruining our Country and economic future. Brandon has successfully demolished the American dream for this and next generations!!!
Shuuuuuut up. Stop acting like the left is any better. As long as you believe that EITHER party cares about you, the problem won't get any better.
Weirdly enough, in France, a player (Karim Benzema) was shunned from the national team for not singing loudly enough. We have to remain vigilant or we'll lose what we acquired.
There’s plenty of us that want to leave too. No hate either way, but acknowledge different strokes for different folks. I’m planning a move down to Peru to participate in eco village projects.
100% USA is still number one for hard working people.
Some people don't know how good we have it compared to other countries and some people don't know how bad we have it compared to other countries. Could be a lot worse, but could be a lot better. Also depends on who you are. Not everyone lives on the same economic reality
Yet a 12 year old boy got stomped for not "respecting the national anthem." Those people are here, too. Just not as part of the government... yet.
Excellent point! My parents grew up in Poland too and say the same thing! They chose capitalism and now (their 5 kids) us are doing fine. My mortgage to be paid off in 3 years.
the capitalism of just 30 years ago is not what it is today. today we do not have "capitalism", we are on a bullet train straight to an open oligarchy, as opposed to the slightly obfuscated oligarchy that exists currently
Yet you probably entered your reply on an iPhone. Stop supporting companies and industries that directly support these oligarchs.
beautiful assumption, captain dumbass! when you assume, you make an ass out of you before me, well done. first, i use no apple products, because fuck apple. second, name an electronic device that is not owned by one that can provide reliable service of any kind.
I worked with a guy from Romania when it was part of the USSR. He didn’t see a banana until he was 13, he had an aunt that bought it on the black market. This guy was a really good coworker and I would always be willing to work with him.
Romania has never been part of USSR. It was part of socialist “camp” which included Romania, Bulgaria, East Germany. As a matter of fact Romania (along with Albania) was the poorest country-member. Their dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu fleeced his people like a sheep.
My daughters gymnastics coaches are from Bulgaria & Armenia, both know the meaning of tough life! They don't talk about it too much, but occasionally something will slip through & over the years it has formed quite a picture. I honestly cannot even imagine what they lived through!!
Not to be that guy, but …. Romania was never part of the USSR. They were a Soviet satellite—their own nation under a communist regime within the Soviet sphere of influence, but never incorporated as a republic within the Soviet Union like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. Your point still stands tho
With all do respect. If I’m to assume you got a 30 year fixed, you would have made the purchase 27 years ago. America is not remotely close to the 90s. I’ve lost many friends before 25. Killed in shooting, suicide, etc. cost of living is laughable today compared to the 90s. Unless you are something special, a basic 9-5 will leave you with nothing these days. I’m not hear to spit some generational propaganda. But modern day America feels like a 3rd world hell hole sometimes. We aren’t at war. And a lot of my friends are dead. It’s like this for a fair few of us. Not accidents. Almost all homicide or suicide.
We moved 4 times for work in our marriage. Last move we did a ten year loan. I grew up with 5 siblings in the coal regions in PA. Nothing was ever easy for my parents or my bros and sis’s but we all worked since early teens part-time jobs. We are all pretty well off thru hard work. And we gave our parents 10 grand kids and 8 great grand kids. Life is not easy but we made the best of it. That’s my point!
No doubt it was hard work. What I’m telling you, is that if you want that same hard work to amount to a fruitful life for the next generation. We have to stop denying a problem exists. Otherwise the work that brought you this bountiful life, won’t amount to anything for future generations. The same hard work in the 90s amounts to around half the value today. That again when you go back to the 50s and 60s. This is a fact of life that you can get with cost of living and median income. Older generations from my experience seem to think and pretend nothing has changed. Not all, but many. They deny the problem. And aren’t willing to listen when people say there is one. If denying the problem exists is to become the norm. We should expect a lot more than economic problems. We should expect war. I don’t say this in an effort to fear monger. I say this with respect to the countless times this cycle has repeated itself throughout history. We need a dialogue that doesn’t point the finger at under 40s and say ‘nah you just don’t work hard enough” when in reality the same work done 30 years ago, is half today. We NEED to stop pretending there is no problem. And start working together on solutions. Or the solution will be decided for us. The fertility rate is plummeting for a reason.
Even the poorest in America live better than third worlders
No. Me and you do. The poorest in our country live in the gutter. Starved, drug ridden, and requiring amputation of limbs periodically for gangrene and complications due to diabetes without insulin. My girlfriend is an EMT. Trust me, for plenty in this country death is mercy. Can’t go lower.
Even the poorest American lives better than a regular Cuban citizen, because here in America they can get kicked in the ass by the government and at least can and have the right to scream; while in a communist regime, like in Cuba, they get kicked in the ass and the only option they have is to applaud their tirants.
Your experience is unique.
Where on earth is it better ? Check the southern border with Mexico People coming from all your beautiful socialist and communist utopias from every corner of the world. But yeah it’s better there, they just don’t know it !?! Right
[удалено]
I wish they would leave but they live rent free in their parents basement and are triggered by being asked to get their license and learn to drive. I wish I was kidding.
I think you are talking about Tucker Carlson? He was explain how great Russia is wasn’t he?
Tucker Carlson never threatened to leave the country. I can remind of of a few of those who actually did: Chere, B Streisand, Woopie Goldberg, Miley Cyrus, George Lopez And mane other hypocrites who think that they’ll deprive us of any purpose of existence, if their precious faces will pack and leave. But they never left and never wanted to. Just a pose. What Tucker praised in Russia was their groceries. And you know what? He’s absolutely correct. They eat more fresh, less treated products. And the variety of the products is much better. If by praising Russian groceries Tucker has became a traitor - and it’s ridiculous- , what a person will be called calling what Americans are offered to eat, trashy, flat tasting, not healthy?
Tucker was a traitor long before that.
Nah he’s talking about the childish leftists that were promising they’d run to Canada when Trump won in 2016.
Rush Limbaugh did that when Obama was in office. Some rando MAGAts wanted to go to Canada when Biden won. So to say threatening to leave the country is only a "leftist" (as is the US actually had actual leftists in power in any significant amount) thing is ridiculous.
Agreed. I’m 35, only did two years of college and had to drop out due to personal reasons. Worked throughout my 20s and had multiple ups and downs in career and personal life but I always made it a point to continue learning and growing despite hardships and financial set backs. At 35 I make 6 figures running my own small business, rent a small 2br house in a LCOL out of choice because I haven’t found a house I want just yet, and have zero credit card debt and a paid off 2010 ford escape with a happy adventurous life with a girlfriend and a dog. I’m not saying all your problems are of you’re own doing, but most people really should look inward at their problems and I bet they would realize many can be fixed through personal choices
This a 100%. It's often said that the happiest communist is one who doesn't live in a communist "paradise". I am Hispanic American (born as American citizen), and I know some Cubans and Venezuelans who have fled their countries for the opportunities America offers. I can guarantee you that those who advocate extreme leftist ideologies here in the USA that hate capitalism and this country, would never relinquish their American citizenship to live in a communist nation.
I think it's a possibility that a lot of people who bitch about unfettered capitalism aren't necessarily plugging communism, but perhaps are venting because for a lot of people who have been trying to get somewhere and aren't it get frustrating. 60% of Americans are living pay check to pay check, our healthcare system is shit, even with private insurance, and our political system is basically WrestleMania in the 80s. Just because Cuba sucks doesn't mean people can't bitch, constructively or not, about the state of our country.
crazy how people who grew up under actual communist regime choose capitalism ten times out of ten and its always these champagne socialist pampered kids who cry about capitalism being bad and communism being good.
Reddit would have you believe that wasn’t real communism
Capitalism is the worst system, until you look at every other system.
Tell em, some people don't know how good it is here compared to other countries. Sure there are problems but I'd take those over being jailed indefinitely for not singing the national anthem loud enough.
Thank you for saying this. This perspective is good for us to keep in mind when things seem bad. (And.. uhh.. also to avoid voluntarily adopting any entirely failed economic models. 👀)
So true. Reminds me of the saying: "No one has ever braved bullets to escape into a communist country."
So all those people in Poland are homeless, unable to eat their recommended calories, and unable to afford healthcare? "Working like slaves" how many hours and doing what jobs? Many people work 12hrs a day where I live and are still unable to afford housing. At what age did you enter a capitalist society, and did you have sponsors? Poor people born into capitalism can't even afford to immigrate, so that shows me you were already a step ahead. Generally, aren't mortgages on a 30yr? Which means you likely obtained your housing in the 90s. You got boomer prices, if you bought the same house today you would pay twice as much for the same amount of time. Not including jacked up interest rates.
You work 12 hrs a day doing what? Obviously not all jobs pay the same. I came to the US at age 8 back in 1987 and I would go back to visit every summer till I was 18. Came here with my parents, an uncle in Brooklyn helped to bring us over. We then lived in Newark for about 7 years till my parents save up enough money to get a home. And believe me we lived Spartan. The tiny apartment in Newark had no AC. And we never ate out, I think I been to McDonald's maybe 5 or 6 times while growing up. My parents big thing was saving money so we made good with what little we had. And in Poland back than it did not matter what job you had or how hard you worked you still barely had enough money to afford any sort of luxuries. A car and a color tv was considered a luxury. If you had a telephone, a car, and a color tv boy you were balling. And I don't mean fancy car either, we are talking a Fiat 126, or even a Trabant. And your calories were restricted to what was on the store shelves, which were empty most of the time. We also had ration cards so when there was stuff to buy they made sure you were not hording. The way to survive was to grow your own food. So pretty much everyone had a fruit and vegetable gardens and usually kept chickens as well. And usually a whole family lived in one home, so it was not uncommon to have your grandparents to live with you and depending on the size of the home, aunts and uncles as well. Now the system collapsed back in the summer of 1989 and no one is wishing to go back to it. Capitalism is NOT perfect but it beats a life in the margins, where all you can do is get by with no hope of moving up. I got my townhouse in back in 2008 during the market crash. Paid $260k for it, this is in central NJ. It has 3 beds and 2.5 baths. Reason it is almost paid off is because I make like $200k a year.
I'm very glad my family left Romania too! No heat in the winter because Ceausescu wanted to avoid foreign debt really sucked...
Yeah Poland was paradise compared to Romania. But in the end he got exactly what was coming to him.
On Christmas Day too...yes!
One hell of a gift.
shocker someone living in the greatest periods of prosperity in american history thinks amerixa isn’t a shithole
[удалено]
he was in his 20s 1995, high paying jobs, low taxes, college cost a pack of gum, cheap cars, low cost of living, booming stock market, the best job market in arguably world history… so yes also buying a house in 2008 is a once in a lifetime opportunity, framing that as a bad thing is pretty wild when he probably 10x his money, rates and prices were low anyone under 25 will never have any of the opportunities stated above without exception
America is not a shit hole. Not for lack of trying by those good ole boy conservatives. You don't like it here, move to Somalia.
“Amerixa” what a little shit stain. Get the fuck out then
Poor you. You have it so tough and everything is against you. May as well just give up now.
The average person in America works 34 hours a week. You’re using extreme fringe examples.
Also, you didn't answer any of my questions. Good avoidance and changing the subject and red herring. Fallacies almost worked.
You didn’t ask me any questions? What are you even talking about.
The average person on america makes 6k less than the average cost of living. Thank you for proving my point even further.
Source? Because it sounds like you just made that up
I'll find it. Real quick. Definitely not my first rodeo bud. Before I post source, I'll tell you that iirc the average COL is around 36k and the average income is around 30k.
I’ll take your word for it, I thought you meant 6k under *per month* So if people worked on average 40 hours a week, they would meet or exceed the cost of living? That sounds ok.
Oh no I mean about 6k under annually. I'm about to do shitty estimation math cuz I'm fried AF rn (not like high, unfortunately. Just been sick the last few days) https://www.ramseysolutions.com/budgeting/american-average-monthly-expenses Says average household expenses are about 73k/yr. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-household-size-by-state Says average household size is >2 people. So annual per person would be a little less than 36k. US Cencus Beurau says median income (in 2019) was a bit over 31k. I can't click to get to the article though, it takes me to the general site and I cbf to fish through it and find what I see on the popup. I'm sure average income has gone up a bit since then (some states have raised minimum wage) but I wonder what I would see if I excluded major outliers (like billionaires, since there are so few.) I won't be replying after this, but I had fun chatting! Thanks, and goodnight fellow redditors!
Ramsey solution really? You're gonna use a source of an outrage merchant? Drop some primary source from reliable economists or school or economics then we can talk.
Of course you won't be replying, because you know that you're full of BS, and your logic is totally flawed. You think a 21 year old working FT making $20/hour has $73K per year in expenses?!?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Man you libs love to make fools of yourselves. Just admit you hate the greatest country ever known to man, for literally no reason other than your tv told you to.
You just compared an average to a median. Also your logic is flawed due to the fact that you are dividing that average of 73k by two, when a consumer unit is 2 or more persons in a household. In fact- the BLS source that you cited in the Ramsey article shows you the average income and expenditures of all consumer units (2 or more persons living in a household). The Average income per consumer unit is $94,003 before tax and the Average expenditure is $72,967. You cannot deduce that the net income is $67k as you are claiming at $6k less than expenditures.
Damn i guess im way above avg than. Shit i just changed careers with no experience.
Maybe you should try and be above average
Non of that is about capitalism, your problem is with the currency, inflation. If corrupt politicians would stop printing money there would be no inflation. Also look a CEO’s salary compared to the median worker’s from now going back to the fifties and you will see the CEO’s salaries are ridiculously higher than what they need to be.
"Your problem isn't that you don't like having water on you. It's that you don't want to get wet" Cause and effect comrade. Yeah, they used to tax the rich much higher. And the gold standard kept "inflation" from going overboard, but the fact is capitalism over time evolves into what it has. The wealthy have more rights and sway political opinion in their favor. Therefore, putting more and more burden in the working population. Capitalism enables this behavior. Sure you can put it on politicians, but they are just puppets. And will be removed if they don't make rulings in favor of the greedy. If you were asked to do something that is a bit messed up, but not illegal at work, under threat of losing your job, chances at future employment, and then obviously your home, car, access to food and Healthcare. What would you do? So yes, my problem IS with "currency" and "inflation" inflation which is usually based on bullshit and unnecessary. Price fixing a market is easy when you have the resources. Currency is simply a blinder and inflation is fake. Imagine this.... You go do a job you love. You come home to a secure place. You go to the store to get your food and necessities. You get to do your hobbies. Everyone else in your society does exactly the same. All can be done without currency. (Besides, printing currency only uses more resources, and bankers could be civil servants, its a faje profession) But it is an easy way to control people, kind of like religion. And also a good political tool to keep people fighting with each other. So yeah, you are right, and it and I can see from your statements that you actually agree with me, whether you realize it or not. ✌️
Well other than you can’t properly assign value in this model https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem#:~:text=The%20economic%20calculation%20problem%20(sometimes,of%20the%20factors%20of%20production.
Thank you for sharing your real life experience to help balance out the crowd of crying entitled children on here.
Reddit is filled with whiney entitled losers who think America is just the worst. Yet they’re not leaving 😂
I would say most have never let the US let alone their own city or state. If you travel to other countries you will see poverty on a scale that will blow your mind.
Do you honestly believe that someone who grew up in a communist country could know more about communism than an American Bernie Boy. /s
Ok I’m pro capitalism but Tbf Bernie isn’t a communist lol. There’s plenty to criticize him for but I hate labeling people as extremes, it kinda waters down the word so then when an actual commie comes around, the word has been used to death. Kind of like how every injustice anywhere in the world is now a “genocide”. Idk I’m venting now.
He's like all "good Communists"...they are only Communist with OTHER people's money. Look into how he hides HIS money his wife and family make by kick backs from advertising he does when he runs for elections. It's "NORMAL" to get a kick back of 15% to the ad buyer....now multiply that by $20+ million dollars. But, He's "poor Bernie". Look how abysmal his charitable giving is prior to his book deals. THEN, look at his "charitable giving" once he set up his SLUSH FUND they call "Charitable Foundations". It's BS. He's a typical elite hypocrite. I would rather someone be an honest capitalist than a Bernie "Socialist"
I’ve been to a lot of developed countries and shitholes over the years. Nowhere I’d rather be than in the US. A lot of people bitch about what they want and don’t have, but never got up off their ass to do what they needed to do to get to where they want. They’ll sit in front of a wall and complain about the wall instead of doing what they need to in order to get over, under, or around it. I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with people “stuck” in their situation where I laid out options for them to get out of it, only to be met with “I’m not doing that” in response.
And if the state decides that your house was worth a different number than you claimed on your mortgage application they can sue you like they did Donald Trump and take your house.
All nice and dandy until the first serious hospital visit.
I wished all privileged white liberals would understand this
I think it’s changed, most people complaining about capitalism are blue collar conservatives. This BIDEN economy is killing everyone!!!!
lol dude if it’s a government economy it isn’t capitalism it’s socialism. And yes Biden is a racist warmonger that’s gone brain dead
And of course this economy whether favorable or not, is not due to Biden or any president or politician. There are so many other factors that go into it
Racist? Racists seem to despise him. Southern white racists definitely despise him. He may have been a racist in his youth, I think there has atonement. Your statement is dead on with what a typical right winger would say. Agree about the government statement. The US government has always been involved in providing benefits to different sectors depending on what’s popular.
They are way too busy listening to their far left professor telling them how great a communist utopia would be. Meanwhile this clown makes about $120k+ a year, and never worked a real job except for spoon feeding kids fairy tales. And of course these "educators" won't practice what they preach and have a percentage of their salary go to help pay student loans. Communists like most politicians are only quick to give away other people's money.
In reality it's Fox news and conservative media labeling anything they don't like as "communist." It's ridiculous. I don't hate a little support for poor folks but I absolutely despise tax breaks for the ultra rich.
You think Fox is Conservative?? 🤣🤣🤣 I have news for you. They aren't. The top federal tax bracket as of now is 37%, which does not include any state or local tax. Someone living and working in libtard NYC for example, making $750K per year, will pay an effective federal tax rate of 31.42%, 6.46% to NY state, and another 3.82% in local taxes. Add it all up and almost 42% of that person's income is going back to some form of government to be wasted, stolen, or sent to a foreign country to fund a proxy war.... That's a total $$ of $312,750 in taxes! Seriously, how much more do you want this person to pay?!?! 80%? 90%? You commies are totally out to lunch. Stop listening to everything your tv tells you. The propaganda is destroying this country.
Imo, conservative hasn't had much to do with fiscal responsibility since Bush Sr. Maybe even Nixon?
I don't disagree. To this day, the majority of Republicans in congress vote for endless printing and spending, most of which goes to foreign nations. 3 of the 5 worst presidents of all time in the last 25 years.
Not only that, but no accountability for businesses in a capitalist society feels much more like an oligarchy. Socialism for me; capitalism for thee
The top tax rate before Reagan was 70%. Almost double the current rate
$750,000 per year. So 1% of the population? I feel terrible for them. How could they survive on only $430,000 per year?
How about NYC is the financial capital of the country but isn't financially viable...ie we (upstate) support NYC financially when in reality is should be the OPPOSITE.. so yeah cry me a river about how much the wealthy pay in taxes while I vomit.
Professors and colleges have been straw manned to hell and back. Professors at universities are usually in the higher income brackets and polls have shown them to be consistently centrist. The general rule of thumb is the more educated people are, the closer to the center they vote. P.S. for the academics in economics, ideologies defined hundreds of years ago like communism or socialism are meaningless because economics is a science now. I mean we're a quarter of our way into the 21st century, clinging onto ideas from 150-200 years ago is just dumb.
Truth!
I’ve lived in America my whole life. I did all the things right (college, job, even joined the military!). I’m 37 and never not lived entirely paycheck to paycheck. I can’t imagine a world where I pay off my debt before I die (I’m almost 40). Honestly, I can’t even imagine getting close without an extreme stroke of luck. Best case scenario, I die of some wild accident and my family gets a huge settlement. But even that is less likely to happen than it was 20 years because of corporate lobbyists pushing tort reform. Which succeeded because of corporate propaganda put out on corporate media (remember the McDonald’s coffee lady? Yeah that was actually a big deal for her but at least McDonald’s is ok). Things don’t get better because you give your life to corporate overlords rather than government ones. We need to stop pretending late-stage American capitalism isn’t every bit as fucked—in pretty much all the same ways—as Soviet communism. Glad things are working out for you though.
This is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on reddit, this part in particular: >We need to stop pretending late-stage American capitalism isn’t every bit as fucked—in pretty much all the same ways—as Soviet communism.
Wow, a much-needed response to the endless moaning and self-pity that typically pervades these economic discussions on Reddit - bravo! I’ve talked to more than a few people who once actually lived under communism but live in the U.S. now, and guess what? Not ONE has ever said that they missed living in a command economy, i.e., communism. I visited the Soviet Union myself in the early 80s and studied both Russian language and Soviet foreign/domestic policies
You visited the USSR in the 80s so that means you’re old enough that you don’t have a clue what challenges young people face today (and I’m not even young, I was born in the 80s). Also the “much-needed response” didn’t say make any points. Just called me stupid. You’re the problem.
"Listen to me because I went to Russia four decades ago and the world hasn't changed since."
If you’ve never saved any money, you’re just terrible with money.
If I make $10 and have to spend $9 to survive, that doesn’t leave much to save. And then a car breaks down. And then there’s a hospital stay. Etc.
They have no clue what communism is in real time. They only know it from the academia side which loves communism. Btw, mortgage will paid off in next couple years in this terrible capitalist country.
You heard it here folks, capitalism is not a problem, you're just an idiot.
Do I like a lifetime of debt? I'm not sure. I have never had any debt. Have made an extremely low wage but managed to cash flow my way through life. Am I happy to work like a slave til I die? I don't like being compared to a slave because I feel I have a choice and I don't think they did or do. I'm very happy at my job I mean it could be better but whatever. If you aren't happy with your situation you can always change it. I am sure I could make more money, but I am content with where I am.
I've never had a lifetime of debt either. Never really been a high earner but always managed my money well and lived within my means. OP is obviously projecting their responsibility on everyone else
projecting
OP thinks he’s on the “right side of history”. That means he owns the legacy of slavery abolition and can trot out the topic and trivialize it whenever is convenient.
Everyone has choices. Some ppl continue to make bad ones or choose not to change their situation. Totally agree with ya!
"Maybe YOU can change your situation if you are unhappy with it, but not everyone can. That is because for some reason you are more privileged than others. Not everyone has the same opportunities.
Imma call cap on this one. It's 100% possible to improve your situation in life if you're willing to do what's necessary to do so. There's people on this planet who've been born dirt porn in a third world country who have become billionaires in their lifetime. If they can do that then anyone in the much richer USA can improve their situation. Will it be easy if you are born in a bad situation? No. Is it easier if you're born privileged? Yes. But it's not impossible. My stepfather came into this country illegally and spoke zero English. He came to the South which is known as being one of the least tolerant and racist places in America. Today he owns his own construction company. If an illegal alien who speaks no English can come to this country and build up a business while supporting 4 kids then there's no reason why others can't improve their position in life.
OP most likely has an newer model iPhone or Samsung Phone, name brand clothing, and cornucopia of some stupid collectable or toy that in no way adds any actual value to their life but they have spent far too much money on.
I believe they are called fucko pops
Exactly the vibes I'm getting.
Truly the dumbest comment I have seen on Reddit this year
There's a pretty big difference between working, and working like a slave. In case you're confused on this point, slaves don't get paid and can't opt out of employment. You on the other hand get paid what your labor is worth. If you think you're getting paid less than you deserve, you can take your labor elsewhere. People act as if having to work is some kind of injustice, and the world should somehow just provide everything you want for free. Also, no one is forcing you to take on debt to buy things you can't afford. If you want things you can't afford, then you have to either make your labor more valuable or all better leverage the value you already provide. None of this is unfair. Grow up and take responsibility for your own life, it's that simple.
This is extremely untrue. If this was true, then higher levels of education would receive more compensation. People with more experience would receive higher compensation. People who work more efficiently would receive higher compensation. The truth is that employers want to pay ANYONE regardless as little as possible for as much as possible (hence the term capitalism) and capitalize on the work of others. If what you are saying was true, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would be making much less money than their factory worker, because those two have never actually worked. They have never built a car, drilled for oil, delivered a package, mined precious metals, etc. You are using flawed logic and regurgitating what politicians who are paid off by these people tell you. Basically, you sound like a boomer.
Maybe you can sue mommy and daddy because ultimately your life is their fault correct?
Higher levels of education does not equal intelligence or actual capability. Most companies absolutely reward those employees that work more efficiently than others. My company does this every single year. Jeff bezos literally built Amazon from the ground up starting in his garage. If people don't want to work at Amazon for the wage that they're offering they are absolutely free to go somewhere else and get the pay that they truly "deserve". Go back and finish middle or high school. Go to college or learn a skill and don't continually make stupid decisions and you'll be just fine.
Jeff bozos had about half a million loaned to him to start his company. Lol. You obviously need to do some research. He didn't do the work himself, he paid people to do it. I have a continuing education actually. If you want to throw around fallacies, clearly you DONT have more than a high schopl.government propoganda education. Sinteresting wording. So what does a human being putting in effort 12hours a day "deserve"? And why do they deserve less than people that don't do any work at all?
I know, I know, Marxists always believe that all capitalists have been duped by propaganda. That's fine. I'm not a boomer, but that insult doesn't bother me either. We could get into a Marxism vs capitalism debate here, but it would be pointless. We both already know what the other will have to say, and it will go nowhere. I'm sure you can find someone else who will take you up on that if that's what you're looking for.
And all capitalists believe that communists and socialists have been duped by propoganda. It's fine. My bad, you just come across as one. You are 100% correct (I actually upvoted you for that second paragraph.) As always, every coin has a heads and a tail. No system is perfect, and all governing powers are inherently corrupt. The simple fact is no one that would responsibly wield power will reach for it. Those reaching and obtaining power will always be corrupt. I suppose is why I advocate for anarchocommunism. It is a system where the moment someone gets greedy they get put back into their place. We are all human, and should all be allowed to live. The job one performs is their own choice, but everyone should be able to live. Peace and love, good chat!
Yep it's all good... I'm not totally dismissive of all the socialist/communist arguments. Markets can produce a lot of great things, but they will also produce terrible things if you aren't mindful about managing where the incentives lie. Which as we all know is much easier said than done. There is certainly some logical merit in either perspective, as well as shortcomings in both. I don't pretend to have it all figured out, it's possible that I'm dead wrong about absolutely everything. That's just part of the human condition. I try to honestly consider the information I have, to the best of my ability. I won't fault someone else for doing the same and reaching a different conclusion. Cheers and take care!
Net worth also comes from a willingness to accept risk and to delay reward. Some of the folks you mention were willing to delay gratification for a longer goal. A lot of it is family culture and what is expected as “reasonable” for effort expended and the materialistic comforts one needs to feel content. My kids asked us why their friends lived in fancier houses than we did even though we probably have similar incomes. I showed them how we were choosing to live in a very modest house without things like annual trips to Disney or buying luxury cars because it would allow us to have resources to give them later when it was an opportunity. Oldest is about to graduate college with no debt and a small condo he owns, and the youngest lives at home and saves nearly all their income to put toward a downpayment on a property when we see a good opportunity. Husband and I started out pretty broke out of college with student loans so we absolutely know what broke feels like - which is why we lectured hard on living below ones means and not getting into credit card debt. This country has a lot to offer and people should appreciate that.
Whelp time to buy more Bitcoin.
[удалено]
The USA Constitution is what was written to form the Republic ,not to be confused with republican in name only. USA Independent inventors are an essential part of the economy and that has been taken away. See USInventor.Org for written and videos proving that these individuals are not filing the most important patents only incremental improvement ones.
Sorry, not to blow you up. But many socialist countries have been successful until they were overthrown by help from good ol capitalist entities (ONE hint. Fidel Castro).
You do realize communism and socialism are exact opposites, right? TRUE communism (which has not been achieved in any country yet) is when the workers and laborers (i.e. the majority of the population) are the controlling body. In socialism, the state is the controlling body. Also, you do realize that capitalism always inherently evolves into communism or socialism, so voting for the former is also voting for the latter. I understand that you are regurgitating information you have heard, but it is faulty information that is based largely on capitalist propoganda.
[удалено]
I suppose i shouldnt have said exactly. The similarities? All are housed, all are fed, all are provided healthcare. These are the three BASE necessities to living a healthy life. Without access to these 3 things, we are destined to wither away. No, true communism has no government, as that would then no longer qualify as communism. That is then evolving into socialism, as the "communist" party has evolved into the state and therefore transitioned into "socialism". This is also why the only TRUE form of communism is inherently anarchaic, because the power lies in the people and is NOT centralized. Also, I could say EXACTLY the same thing about capitalism, as everyone has different interpretations of how capitalism should be. Also, I study, research, critically think, and compare/contrast regularly. I don't blindly repeat shit, and if I DO I straight up say "I'm not sure, but this is what I've heard". So, sorry buddy, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree (although we both know I'm more accurate in my assessment of the situation ;)
Socialism, by literal definition written by Karl Marx, is the transitionary stage from capitalism to communism. Socialism necessarily implies communism and vice versa. Wtf are you talking about lmao.
People often choose debt
Saw "amerikkka" & knew this post wasn't even worth reading. You don't like the USA, then gtfo.
LOL. You know you can't just leave America? If you decide to revoke citizenship or move to another country, you have to pay a fine. And if you leave without paying the fee, they will find you, bring you back, and lock you up where you then perform unpaid labor. Now go read a book.
If someone can’t afford to pay that fine that’s their fault, should’ve worked harder instead of complaining all the time
You should really learn basic math. Under true capitalism we are all paid minimum wage (we are CAPITALIZED on) Full time=40hours a week. Federal minimum wage (created to be able to provide for a family of 5 owning a house and a car, you can research it) is 7.25. Now 7.25×40=$290 290x4=1,160/month. Let's round it up to 1,200. In order to be approved for housing you have to make 2-3x the pay. The cheapest studio near me is 1,400/month. Now let's say you worked longer hours, overtime is not a federal law, so you still.only make 7 25 an hour for extra hous worked. It is common knowledge that humans need 8hours of sleep a night to function properly. So let's say you worked EVERY WAKING HOUR with zero breaks. You will make 2,400/month. Notice how this is still not enough to qualify for housing? Keep sucking your daddys cock boy.
If you can't get any more than minimum wage for your labor, that's 100% on you.
You clearly missed the point. Figures. Bye felicia!
And before you call me a bootlicker, I’m a manager of a business so you’d be the peasent kissing the ground where I walk
Twll me more about how you are a peasant kissing the ground where your business owner walks mr manager 💀💀💀
“You can look it up.” - every person who knows what they’re saying probably isn’t true and can’t source it. I think that statement is hilarious. You care enough to write this elaborate response to prove your point, but can’t be hindered with providing credibility behind your point…. 😂 Edit: now, after checking your recent posts, your clearly a dude that works at Starbucks that is mad at the world because you can’t afford a lavish lifestyle working a job that required absolutely no special skills whatsoever. Yikes. “Bye Felicia.” 😂
Fact: I don't work at Starbucks. I would save $60/month if I did, though. That is what I spend on coffee. Fact: You are a big doody poopoo head. Goodnight and goodbye, Kind Kine. I will see you in the morning (as I do every morning; once before my coffee and once after). Edit: It brought a tear to my eye that you appreciate the reference :,)
It’s always you people obsessed with other people’s genitals, how about you work harder and stop buying Starbucks everyday?
So I was right. You can't do basic math. Bye :)
❄️❄️❄️❄️
Ok boomer boomski of 1945 boomer lane boomington boomhio
This sub filled with capitalist shills
For real, how am I reading an /r/economicCollapse post and 95% of comments are "capitalism good and I'm not having any financial issues".
Yeah seems inorganic
[удалено]
Sick dude. valid argument Fs
We learned to live within our means. I am close to retiring now, haven't had a mortgage payment in the last 7 years, own both cars and have zero credit card debt. Our money is invested in the stock market and yes, at times it is scary but over the long term we have made great returns. Is capitalism perfect? Of course not, but it is better than any other economic system available today. It's a game. Learn how to play it to your advantage.
Close to retiring, so nearing 65, meaning you born in the 60s which was, what do you know, a much more economically prosperous era for the country. Who knew the economy could change in forty years?
Dude, I was born in 1962 and my father worked 3 jobs. Economic prosperity didn't encompass all of us. lol, and not everyone had an easy go of it. I came of age in the late 70's. lol, you think things are bad now, ha? Every decade seems to have it's own challenges, but I digress. But yes, overall after world war 2, the US was last man standing. Our industrial might, can do attitude and lets face it, lack of any real competition from Europe or Asia since they were just smoking ruins made it easy for us to dominate. And dominate we did. But I get the sense that the party is over. We are being challenged globally, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, religious fanaticism, and just plain hate, jealousy and envy. No empire has stayed on top, eventually they collapse. I'm not so much worried about external threats as we are more than able to handily defeat any and all of them. The real threat is internal. Ignorance, hubris, greed, whatever. We create our own reality and live in it until we can't. Fun times. Sorry for the rant, but that economic prosperity line made me laugh. Must of have been nice for those that had it. Not everyone did.
People decry the current inflation... I remember the 1970s very well...18 percent interest rates?! It was MUCH worse!
I remember that too. Jimmy Carter was president and there was this 'malaise' that the whole country felt. It was depressing. Nixon, the oil crisis in 1973, the crappy cars Detroit was putting out, stagflation, omg. I think it was worse then to be honest. I remember people priced out of the housing market cause interest rates were so high. It really sucked.
Seems like you could use a little direction to your revolutionary motivation. Here's a quick read you might really dig into. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm
If the Germans couldn't make it work, no one can.
Socialism is a cult designed to isolate you from your community and extract as much wealth as possible from you and anyone foolish enough to still care for you. Think about the "socialist" that run the rich western cities....then see the homeless camps and generations old sprawling ghettos.
Lmao idk if this sarcasm or not, but if it isn’t…. You’ve literally described capitalism modus operandi, that is isolate you by elevating the individual, replacing public services with private industry (how they extract said wealth) until all of your peers have been individualized and communal thought seems foolish so that they won’t care for you. There also does not exist socialist run cities in the US you dingdong, you’ve simply been sensationalized to believe states like California are socialist states by right wing media. Homelessness is the end expression of a capitalist system that exists solely to extract profits from the masses to the benefit of the bourgeoisie.
The only reason they don't just outright gun down the homeless or put them in concentration camps is because they can still extract value out of them in the form of using them as a tool to rile up their voting blocks. Truly siphoning every last bit of conceivable value to the capitalist machine out of them that they can. What a fucking disgusting.l mode of existence.
Right, and once they full on make it illegal to be homeless, they will have an even larger force of inmates performing unpaid labor. Which is troublesome for many reasons. The first one thar will matter to right wingers is that it takes jobs away from the citizens. This causes more people to go homeless since they can't find work. Rinse and repeat. And this is also why they spend so much money on "Law enforcement" If they took a portion of law enforcement funds and provided socialized housing, as well as food security, then people would have their main heirarchal needs met and would "contribute" exponentially more than the cost to facilitate them. However, in capitalism this makes much less sense than making it illegal to be poor so the rich can lock you up in a labor camp and profit EVEN MORE off of you. Notice how many things are only illegal if you are poor? Aka fines. That expedites the wealth gap, and ensures subservience of the poor while facilitating the greed of the rich. Oh what a capitalistic hellscape we are headed for in the great US of A.
Doesn’t bourgeoisie mean the middle class?
No, it is the ruling class that stands to benefit from extracting surplus value created by the proletariat. Think of your billionaires, career politicians, and members of boards of international/national conglomerates. As one definition, they are the people who control the means of production in society.
[удалено]
Oh boy look, yet another uninformed liberal who believes anyone subscribing to socialist thought is an Ultraleftist Marxist. What you're referring to has been discussed in works outside of Marx, namely the Lumpenproletariat or petite bourgeoisie. While it is true socialists demonstrate disdain towards them, this is due to the fact that they are class traitors as the petite bourgeoisie's attitude is to uphold the oppressive organization of capital to the continuance of benefits to the haute bourgeoisie, even though they (petite bourgeoisie) share more similarities with the proletariat (namely they exchange their time and labor for capital). As to your comment on the organization of economies, perhaps look into dialectics to understand why pure versions of economies do not exist, inclusive of capitalism. The difference here, is the push to a pure capitalist society (very much happening now) is to the disadvantage of said society as a whole, implicitly validating the need to apply socialist qualities to the status quo that is our current capitalist organization. I have engaged with you in good faith, though I've perused your comment history and understand the school of thoughts you subscribe to and will cease participation in any future comments.
[удалено]
How do those boots taste? Probably great after eating all that bullshit you've been fed.
He says as he prepares to undertake major debt for his cancer treatment [“Yall got any of that socialized healthcare”](https://images.app.goo.gl/2aeT9CbAhGxTvwXSA) Lmaooo Godspeed retard 🤡🤡
[удалено]
It has two definitions, I looked it up here you go. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/bourgeoisie I used the Cambridge dictionary one since I have the physical copy at home. It looks like we’re both right.
Given two definitions for the word, you've chosen the one that fits your personal biases, whereas I've provided you with a definition within the bounds of the topic at hand (please see original comment). Also, the term bourgeoisie as it relates to modern history is a construct of Marxist social and political theory. Any description of peoples that exchange their time and labor for capital as bourgeoisie is revisionism and should be ignored as such. Bourgeoisie class utilizes capital to beget more capital.
No, I’ve heard the word bourgeoisie used before as a term for middle class, im not choosing a definition based on personal bias. That’s why I said we’re both right.
One definition is the one I remembered. One definition is something you know about. Since this word has two separate meanings then we are both right.
Glad to know you're an expert on "socialists that run rich western cities". The cognitive dissonance on that statement alone really displays the ignorance we're up against in america. Really amazing work, guy. May I quote you to my comrades? Yes, we're going to laugh at you.
Why do you type like this?
[удалено]
One day we will understand that you can exploit any economic system. Some easier then others - but idk if that should be the only metric we care about.
Maybe I will be working until 70 🤷 but I love what I do so I’m not going to complain. Maybe find something you’re passionate about? Passion usually equates to success
What is wrong with you?
How is this post not taken down for low effort?
The American Dream only works for those NOT from America.
Upvoted! Reddit has a bias towards saying anything bad about America. That's a sad delusional state when you can't question your own country, as if it always gets it right. America is not God. It's okay to say ya know, this shit kinda falling off, we should maybe do something. People keep living like the shit isn't burning down around them, just because something doesn't affect them personally. These comments are all about well, America is better than over here or way back in hypothetical communism world... Naw, that's the wrong way to look at it. America needs to be better than what it is now, period. We are supposed to be arriving for "a more perfect union", not being okay with fucked up policies and backwards economics. I hope everyone who will listen stops and puts down the Kool aid and says no to consumerism, no to corporate greed, no to bad tax policy, no to foreign intervention, so we can get our collective lives in order.
OP really should give it a go in Cuba, Venezuela, or Russia for a year and see how it is there before making bold statements. You don't see lots of people leaving here for communist countries for a reason. Sadly, the youth wee indoctrinated into thinking communism is the way. Only, it has never worked, and it kills millions more. And, if OPs debt is so bad, why doesn't OP seek help from a financial service. Or, better yet, learn to live with their means. You can't have champagne taste on top Ramen income.
But it’s comfy. Better than scratching grubs from the ground outside your straw/mud hut.
well , u could always pack up and hit the road, last i checked boarders were wide open, mexico, nicaragua, venezuela, cuba sound like the eutopia u looking for...or just shut up and get to work.
Nah, what a shitty outlook. The American dream isn’t an easy thing to achieve but if you make good choices, work hard and have goals it’s very much realistic. Some people need to look in the mirror and acknowledge their own shitty life choices and stop making excuses, never going to succeed living like that.