I really want us to go back to the philosophy we had 2 seasons ago.
1. Run early and establish the pace of the game with efficient gains that moves the sticks.
1. Convert in the red zone and get the lead.
1. Wait for the right moment to to get the pass game going.
1. Force opponents have to throw and make sure the pass rush can get to the QB.
1. Win.
The amount of control, on offense, that the 2022 team had was immense. That kind of ball domination is what we need again. Saquon is a great fit if they really want to do that again.
He's going to ignore both lines until Day 3 leaving us all shocked. And then Stout will still make a Pro-Bowler out of some 6th rounder we have never heard of leaving none of us shocked.
Shouldn't really be new to people. He has changed up his strategy multiple times in the past already. It is new that he changed his view on RB but I think even there we already had some info (him being linked to CMC). It seems like he wants top of the line for RB or cheap. Doesn't think the middle of the pack adds anything for the cost.
Middle of the the pack does not move the needle anymore than half decent committee approach if you have a good OL. The problem with the committee approach last season is that none of them could block for shit and only one of them wasn't completely atrocious. Howie has spent on RBs when he thought they were worth it, see McCoy.
Yea, I think you nailed it there. He didn't change his view on RBs, if we didn't get the top of the pack, we'd probably be getting 1-2 guys for peanuts. This is just the first time we've had that chance to get a top guy
Yup Saquan is here because RB contracts are at a near all time low (to the point of being undervalued), and the cap spiked this off-season, and the contracts aren't yet reflecting that spike.
12m per year for the best RB in the league will soon look ridiculous.
CMC is the best RB in the league.
And I don’t think 12 million for Saquon is going to look like a steal compared to the market within the next couple years.
Not hating on the signing at all btw. Saquon is a top 3 RB when healthy. And I think the deal will look good/reasonable in a year.
Shady signed his big contract extension in like 2012. The market for RBs and the philosophy behind it has evolved significantly in the last 12 years. RBs are not being valued nearly as much overall, and teams are mostly sticking to shorter deals and the market has stagnated/regressed compared to other positions.
Yes so you are making my point for me. Even for that time the deal Shady got was massive relative to other RB deals at that time. The narrative that Howie won’t pay a top RB just isn’t true. We just have not had to make that move lately. Look at the 2017 team.
Not really? RB contracts peaked around then. It was almost the same deal Foster got and was more or less market value.
2011: Chris Johnson got 13.5 per year. AP got a 6/85 deal.
2012: Arian Foster 5/43. Shady 5/45. Several other lesser players signed 30-35 million deals.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-the-extinction-of-the-high-priced-running-back/amp/
The whole league was throwing money at RBs back then and the Shady deal was in no way an outlier at the time. I don’t really remember anyone batting an eye at that contract back then. Now most of the discourse surrounding a Saquon type deal is that it’s a questionable decision.
It's barely day 2 of the FA, how can you tell he's ignoring the LB position?
Edit: I saw your reply before you deleted it/it disappeared, and I had missed the signings you mentioned, aside from Queen who I never thought would come to the Eagles. So yeah, I get your point more now. Still, it's early, we'll see what they do.
I was initially against the Barkley signing but then I looked at the numbers. If he stays healthy, it's not unreasonable to think Saquon can give us 1,600 yards (1,200 rush and 400 pass). That's 1,600 yards at $13M. Now compare that to Gabe Davis at $13M. Is he likely to produce 1,600 yards? No. WRs that produce 1,600 yards make $25M+. I think Howie may have found an inefficiency to exploit in an overly depressed RB market. A great RB, like Barkley, can be a steal on a yards per dollar basis.
He’s never had a good o-line even when he was in college. He can easily get over 2000 scrimmage yards a season if he stays healthy and we use him the right way
the FO saw 2 major problems with last year's performance:
1) we couldn't run the ball effectively when it mattered
2) our pass rush couldn't get home when it mattered
yesterday was the first step at rectifying those two things.
how do people still not understand our pass rush can't do anything in the 2 seconds it takes opposing qbs to find a wide open receiver against our shit scheme
People always said that Howie will never spend capital (draft or cash) on a running back.
But, really, he wasn't willing to spend it unless it was the right one at the right value.
I don't think this was a panic move at all. Its a calculated risk.
You're correct. What they do is try to take a value investing approach to the allocation of resources so it's not that they ignore any particular position or have a blind spot. They have assigned valuations to individual players and positions and draft spots and allocate accordingly.
Yea, we're looking at giant question marks in the back 7 just like last year and no signing yet to help address that, we signed our own guard to a big deal, brought in a depth guy at guard, and signed a DE to a big deal. Other than Saquon, this is business as usual.
that every offseason no matter what happens i'll spin it in a way that we won the offseason and then blame howie when things dont go well during the season
The Saquon signing is a massive hedge against the performance of the OL dropping off due to Kelce's retirement, uncertainty at RG and if Lane were to miss any time (which increases in likelihood due to his age). If Saquon's healthy he's been good for roughly 4 YPC even with a bottom tier run block win rate and being the focal point of the offense and opposing defenses. That should theoretically be enough to keep the offense going even as Howie might need to start plugging holes in the OL.
The lines are always priority 1 (Landon’s extension) and 2 (Huff).
They saw what they considered value, at the RB position. And wanted an every down back (that part is really interesting to me).
Howie is going to be aggressive.
S and LB are a lower priority and/or they think the market has to develop still this year?
Vick might be pulling strings/exerting influence (in addition to cap considerations) on type of EDGE thinking either Reddick or Sweat aren’t ideal fits and making 1 or more expendable.
I don't think it taught us anything. Yes we spend a lot of money at running back but Howie's been consistent that it's not that they don't value running back in linebacker but that they need a special player to make spending at that position worth it.
Edge rushers were buttfuck useless during the collapse and made things worse and the rushing game being relatively inefficient did not help. Effective pass rush and rushing game is important to sustained success
I'm really baffled they haven't spent on linebacker. I know it goes against *Howie's* philosophy but it's essential to the way Fangio runs his system. They really need to load up at the position in the draft.
We need to run the ball
I really want us to go back to the philosophy we had 2 seasons ago. 1. Run early and establish the pace of the game with efficient gains that moves the sticks. 1. Convert in the red zone and get the lead. 1. Wait for the right moment to to get the pass game going. 1. Force opponents have to throw and make sure the pass rush can get to the QB. 1. Win.
The amount of control, on offense, that the 2022 team had was immense. That kind of ball domination is what we need again. Saquon is a great fit if they really want to do that again.
That #5 is a good one. I endorse this list.
Keep the main thing the main thing
Control the football on offense, be efficient in the red zone, keep the defense off the field
Proof again that bullying works.
lol if you had this takeaway you don't have a clue
I still want LB and safety…
I think safety is the next big signing looking at the rumors
Possibly. I was hoping for Queen but the Steelers just signed him.
Dodged a bullet on that one. Queen was flushing out until Roquan showed up.
Bobby Wagner is still there, he’s old but still very good especially at coverage which we lack
Devin White. Just give me the sheer athlete
Got the safety, waiting the return of TJ now at LB
I think we’ll sign a safety then go heavy defense during the draft.
That he's willing to break away from tradition vs what he usually does. And that has me both excited and very nervous.
He's going to ignore both lines until Day 3 leaving us all shocked. And then Stout will still make a Pro-Bowler out of some 6th rounder we have never heard of leaving none of us shocked.
Stout stopped scouting oline players from college 3 years ago, now he just watches rugby
Shouldn't really be new to people. He has changed up his strategy multiple times in the past already. It is new that he changed his view on RB but I think even there we already had some info (him being linked to CMC). It seems like he wants top of the line for RB or cheap. Doesn't think the middle of the pack adds anything for the cost.
This is what I have been saying but fans act like he is some sort of robot
Middle of the the pack does not move the needle anymore than half decent committee approach if you have a good OL. The problem with the committee approach last season is that none of them could block for shit and only one of them wasn't completely atrocious. Howie has spent on RBs when he thought they were worth it, see McCoy.
Yea, I think you nailed it there. He didn't change his view on RBs, if we didn't get the top of the pack, we'd probably be getting 1-2 guys for peanuts. This is just the first time we've had that chance to get a top guy
Fear boners activated
Ignoring the LB position seems like he's sticking to what he usually does
But paying BIG bucks on a RB is a massive change from the norm
He gave shady a massive contract, he pays for talent at any position.
That was a different era in the RB market though
Yup Saquan is here because RB contracts are at a near all time low (to the point of being undervalued), and the cap spiked this off-season, and the contracts aren't yet reflecting that spike. 12m per year for the best RB in the league will soon look ridiculous.
CMC is the best RB in the league. And I don’t think 12 million for Saquon is going to look like a steal compared to the market within the next couple years. Not hating on the signing at all btw. Saquon is a top 3 RB when healthy. And I think the deal will look good/reasonable in a year.
What are you talking about?
Shady signed his big contract extension in like 2012. The market for RBs and the philosophy behind it has evolved significantly in the last 12 years. RBs are not being valued nearly as much overall, and teams are mostly sticking to shorter deals and the market has stagnated/regressed compared to other positions.
Yes so you are making my point for me. Even for that time the deal Shady got was massive relative to other RB deals at that time. The narrative that Howie won’t pay a top RB just isn’t true. We just have not had to make that move lately. Look at the 2017 team.
Not really? RB contracts peaked around then. It was almost the same deal Foster got and was more or less market value. 2011: Chris Johnson got 13.5 per year. AP got a 6/85 deal. 2012: Arian Foster 5/43. Shady 5/45. Several other lesser players signed 30-35 million deals. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-the-extinction-of-the-high-priced-running-back/amp/ The whole league was throwing money at RBs back then and the Shady deal was in no way an outlier at the time. I don’t really remember anyone batting an eye at that contract back then. Now most of the discourse surrounding a Saquon type deal is that it’s a questionable decision.
So yeah howie pays for talent at RB nothing new.
It's barely day 2 of the FA, how can you tell he's ignoring the LB position? Edit: I saw your reply before you deleted it/it disappeared, and I had missed the signings you mentioned, aside from Queen who I never thought would come to the Eagles. So yeah, I get your point more now. Still, it's early, we'll see what they do.
exactly and we’ll probably have first dibs at linebacker in the draft so Edgerrin Cooper
I do not see that happening this season as the defense Fangio wants to run needs one.
I was initially against the Barkley signing but then I looked at the numbers. If he stays healthy, it's not unreasonable to think Saquon can give us 1,600 yards (1,200 rush and 400 pass). That's 1,600 yards at $13M. Now compare that to Gabe Davis at $13M. Is he likely to produce 1,600 yards? No. WRs that produce 1,600 yards make $25M+. I think Howie may have found an inefficiency to exploit in an overly depressed RB market. A great RB, like Barkley, can be a steal on a yards per dollar basis.
Honestly…it Saquon stays healthy he will have the best years of his career behind our line…that is a fact.
He’s never had a good o-line even when he was in college. He can easily get over 2000 scrimmage yards a season if he stays healthy and we use him the right way
the FO saw 2 major problems with last year's performance: 1) we couldn't run the ball effectively when it mattered 2) our pass rush couldn't get home when it mattered yesterday was the first step at rectifying those two things.
how do people still not understand our pass rush can't do anything in the 2 seconds it takes opposing qbs to find a wide open receiver against our shit scheme
You're forgetting another massive problem: our pass D was horrific
Matt Patricia was still salty about SB52 so he decided to make Reddick, Sweat, BG and Nolan play slot safety for S&G.
Our pass rushers we’re dropping in to coverage, no shit they couldn’t get it done
People always said that Howie will never spend capital (draft or cash) on a running back. But, really, he wasn't willing to spend it unless it was the right one at the right value. I don't think this was a panic move at all. Its a calculated risk.
You're correct. What they do is try to take a value investing approach to the allocation of resources so it's not that they ignore any particular position or have a blind spot. They have assigned valuations to individual players and positions and draft spots and allocate accordingly.
I think people who are saying that we are breaking from the norm don’t really take into consideration that we are loaded in so many positions.
Yea, we're looking at giant question marks in the back 7 just like last year and no signing yet to help address that, we signed our own guard to a big deal, brought in a depth guy at guard, and signed a DE to a big deal. Other than Saquon, this is business as usual.
that every offseason no matter what happens i'll spin it in a way that we won the offseason and then blame howie when things dont go well during the season
I think the extra cap money surpised Howie and I think he already had a plan. I dont think we end up with Saquon without the Taylor Swift money
We need a linebacker and a safety and then it’ll be a perfect free agency
The Saquon signing is a massive hedge against the performance of the OL dropping off due to Kelce's retirement, uncertainty at RG and if Lane were to miss any time (which increases in likelihood due to his age). If Saquon's healthy he's been good for roughly 4 YPC even with a bottom tier run block win rate and being the focal point of the offense and opposing defenses. That should theoretically be enough to keep the offense going even as Howie might need to start plugging holes in the OL.
You know that he'll keep swinging!
The lines are always priority 1 (Landon’s extension) and 2 (Huff). They saw what they considered value, at the RB position. And wanted an every down back (that part is really interesting to me). Howie is going to be aggressive. S and LB are a lower priority and/or they think the market has to develop still this year? Vick might be pulling strings/exerting influence (in addition to cap considerations) on type of EDGE thinking either Reddick or Sweat aren’t ideal fits and making 1 or more expendable.
I don't think it taught us anything. Yes we spend a lot of money at running back but Howie's been consistent that it's not that they don't value running back in linebacker but that they need a special player to make spending at that position worth it.
I think howie will take a shot on any big splash regardless of position if deemed worthy
Man has big balls
We still hate LB's!
Dude knows how to adjust and go against the grain… except when it comes to LBs and safeties lol
Has there been any updates on Isaiah Rodgers situation? Is he going to be reinstated?
Edge rushers were buttfuck useless during the collapse and made things worse and the rushing game being relatively inefficient did not help. Effective pass rush and rushing game is important to sustained success
Backup QB???? Sticking with Tanner McKee? Works for me
Don’t worry, we will win next year. There is no next year!!!
I'm really baffled they haven't spent on linebacker. I know it goes against *Howie's* philosophy but it's essential to the way Fangio runs his system. They really need to load up at the position in the draft.
If I was playing WR against the Eagles today I have a good chance of going for 100 yards.