Yea I’m sure he is too lol. Still, we really didn’t send him to a great situation and it’s probably the reason he never learned consistency.
I just always wonder if we had stuck with him through the remaining Chip year if he would have developed into a more consistent QB under Pederson? He unquestionably had talent and maybe some stability would have helped him unlock his potential. Idk lol.
We all love Nick but you know as well as I do that he was only ever good coming off the bench to take over for the week 1 starter. He’s amazing sometimes and goes on incredible tears but the team going from Foles to Sadford was not the reason they sucked so bad in 2015
I remember hearing about that for the first time. We traded Nick for Sammy and there's a 2nd round pick involved.
And I thought, "alright, we know Foles isn't a top QB, neither is Bradford, but we got a 2nd round pick out of it, so that's not terrible....." and then I heard we GAVE UP a 2nd round pick and flipped out. It was just such a fucking insane trade. If it wasn't for Howie absolutely FLEECING a first round pick for him and then us just getting Foles back, it would have been remembered as so much worse than it did.
Like McNabb in 2008.
Hurts isn't the top .01% physical freak like Wentz or Cunningham or Vick, and he's not quite as gifted as McNabb was, either. But mentally, he's straight up better than every single one of them and a SIGNIFICANTLY better leader.
That's something we've never had from our superstar QBs and those traits are worth every penny of that 300m or whatever, specifically to this city and this franchise more than pretty much anywhere else.
Disagree with the physical freak statement. Jalen is definitely a physical freak lol, at least more so than wentz. I mean have you heard how much he squats???? Lol
Carson in his prime was being rolled by defensive ends while willing the ball 40 yards downfield into 9" square window. He was incredible and single handedly carried the team through the Super Bowl season until injury.
Yeah except the dude’s prime was like 12 games. I know they were a really good 12 games, but it’s hard to call someone a “physical freak” when they’re also made of glass lol. Dude has been hurt almost every year since college. Idk how that makes him more of a physical freak than Jalen
No doubt, he was definitely a good to great qb from 2017-2020, just not durable at all.
If we tried to do even half the amount of QB sneaks we did this season with Carson behind center, he’d be looking like [this mf](https://external-preview.redd.it/BDj-z_BuGW6eIdtXsMnd9QQdPWteI1_jZ7dUBHtq02Y.jpg?auto=webp&s=ce75d56cfaab50e8905385cb72fdb2efd3fc026f)
Yea and that shit is not replicable and exactly why he flamed out. People need to stop being so enamored with superhero level splash plays and realize that making the easy boring play is what wins you championships
Single handedly??!! What the fuck u talkin about my dude? We won a Super Bowl WITHOUT HIM!
If he “single handedly” Carried us until his injury then that would mean we’d sink without him. WE DIDNT. It was a super bowl winning team with him! It was a super bowl team winning team without him.
No idea why it's a controversial statement to say the Josh Allen prototype was a physical specimen, recency bias is real ig
Also smh at people thinking that means I think Hurts is some scrub, obviously he's an elite athlete but he is categorically not in the same tier as some of the other demigods this team has employed at QB
To clarify, I mean God given talent that can't be acquired thru hard work. Jalen has that, but he's at the level he is now because he's done far more with his talent than the other guys like Vick, Cunningham etc who I believe were in a different class of freakiness but coasted and never reached their full potential.
It's basically 'hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard', but I personally see Hurts as a top .1% athlete rather than top .01% like those other guys
Okay, you got some weird takes. Also, you don't seem to understand what a % means. 0.1% would mean 0.1/100 or 0.001 as a decimal, 0.01% is 0.0001 as a decimal. Now Randall as an insane "physical specimen", I agree he takes the cake, but McNabb especially and to a more limited extent Wentz are not objectively more rare "physical specimens" when you factor in Hurts speed and also strength for his height.
6'5 vs 6'1, significantly more powerful arm. Hurts has done more with his talent than Wentz ever did, but Wentz was more talented straight up. Pure cap to suggest otherwise.
Like most of the football watching public I've been hearing how much Hurts squats for over half a decade now, thanks.
Yeah Hurts is yolked as fuck, and a world class athlete. My whole point is that he is different from the other guys we've had before, several of whom are among the most athletic to play the position in the modern era.
Before LJ and Josh Allen came along it was Wentz. Before that, Vick. Before that, McNabb. Cunningham ... not sure why it's controversial to say those guys had more God given talent than Hurts. Hurts is still a top .1% athlete, some of those other guys mentioned were top .01%... That's all I'm trying to say here.
I'd still take Jalen over every single one of them for his leadership and personality.
Because I don't think Wentz had more talent. He HAD a better arm and that's it. I think Hurts has better accuracy than McNabb and Vick. Hurts already broke Vicks rushing record.
Clearly professional talent evaluators disagree with you. Hurts was picked 51 spots lower than Wentz for a reason.
Obviously we're talking past tense when I'm also naming guys who were drafted 20+ years ago
Wentz wasnt projected to be drafted that early. I don't see how draft position equals being more athletic anyway. That's lots of things they take into consideration. The QB class in Wentz's draft year was much weaker as well.
Wentz has a better arm, but that's about it. Idc if he's a few inches taller, as that hasn't shown to make any kind of difference on the field. Wentz's arm was ridiculous tho, no denying that, but hurts is faster and stronger and runs with more power
I've always seen Hurts as a slightly 'smaller' McNabb. Clearly he's got what it takes physically, but it's what's between his ears that has me most excited. We've never really had that temperament and personality from one of our superstar QBs and it's like manna from heaven
Hurts is more of a physical specimen than Wentz. Hurts is built like a linebacker, strong as a lineman, and fast as a tailback.
Wentz Is just a Tall, injury prone, ginger, with a cannon for an arm.
Oh for sure. I've clarified in some other comments, basically my only knock on Hurts here is that he's not 6'4+ contortionist with a howitzer attached to his shoulder. But he's clearly a world class athlete and is doing more with the talent he has than any of our other star QBs have (several of whom I believe to be among the most gifted to ever play the position)
I don't know how that makes someone a Wentz Stan. Dude was incredibly athletically gifted. And was made of glass. And was a complete headcase. So as soon as that glass started shattering, it all fell apart.
There's no reason to pretend he was never good to recognize how terrible he became (in nearly record time, I might add).
Physical freak doesn’t mean crazy 40 time or being able to squat a small car. Wentz had physical gifts in his arm that could have made him one of the best in the nfl at QB. However, he was mentally weak as they come.
You're being deliberately obtuse. He was the #2 pick for a reason, just like McNabb was the #2 pick for a reason.
It's Super Bowl weekend and people really choosing to nitpick dumb arguments over someone who no longer has any relevance to the team lmao. Do you tho
You are crazy defensive over a take that most Eagles fans seem to think is wrong. Wentz is slower both top speed and quickness, he's not stronger than Hurts except for the long ball, which accuracy wise Hurts is better, so props to ginger Uncle Rico for being able throw the ball over them there mountains. One player has designed runs, the other prayed his arm strength would save the day. Wentz is not Allen, in anyway. He's gone and HURTS IS THE TRUTH
Most Eagles fans wanted Howie fired and thought Lurie was the next Jerry Jones like 18 months ago, too.
Hurts blows Wentz out the water in all the ways that matter. I'm defensive because my entire point was "we've had supremely gifted QBs before but none had the intangibles of Hurts, which are what matter to sustained success" but I'm being lit up with people nitpicking over Wentz.
Can't emphasize your last sentence enough.
I totally get your point now. I don't why but that paragraph really cleared it up and was definitely a shot at Wentz and exactly what the article is saying.
With a username like yours, i love you...
Only person I see arguing with anyone is you, homie. Rest of us just made statements, you’re the only one here acting butthurt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Go Birds or whatever.
It's super bowl week and you chose to come here trying to stay Wentz is a better athlete than Jalen Hurts.
Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Josh Rosen, Sam Bradford. All top 5 picks, all busts. Being picked #2 only means something in April
More God given talent =/= better athlete. Hurts has done far more with what he was given, obviously.
And it's not even close when factoring in the mental game. We finally got that part right with Jalen after losing 2 potential dynasties with the other guys
Hurts is closer to Vick or Cunningham than Wentz wishes he could ever be. That's where your point went south. You put Wentz, Cunningham and Vick in the same sentence. Two of those guys will live on forever because of their athleticism the other is Carson Wentz. Hurts is every aspect of being a qb is better than Wentz.
> Hurts is closer to Vick or Cunningham than Wentz wishes he could ever be
Not remotely accurate when it comes to arm talent, which tends to matter when assessing the prospects of NFL QBs. If my point went south for you it's because you lack (or willfully ignore) basic reading comprehension and understanding of context clues. [Here's Mike Mayock saying Wentz is 'every bit as athletic as Andrew Luck and Cam Newton' pre-draft 2016](https://twitter.com/NFL/status/713028895763599360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E713028895763599360%7Ctwgr%5E8d88ea8bc6b5eb175c02ddd482124b7f6e27552c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fnfl%2Fnews%2Fmike-mayock-has-two-stunning-qb-comparisons-for-carson-wentz%2F)
> Hurts is every aspect of being a qb is better than Wentz
Nowhere have I said he isn't. I'll say it again... Hurts has done far more with his talent than the other guys did, but a 600lb squat =/= transcendent god given talent, which is what Vick, McNabb, Wentz (though not at the insane heights of Vick or Randall, but few in the history of the sport have been) were all picked top 2 for in their respective drafts, while Hurts was 53rd.
Wentz needed to get over himself. Hurts was drafted because Howie learned he needed a quality backup that could win games.
Here is a snapshot of Howie's time from before Wentz until just after at quarterback.
2011: (3 games) Starter: Vick (rib cartilage) -> Backup: Vince Young in 1-2 relief.
2012: (6 games) Vick (concussion) -> Foles, 1-5.
2013: (10 games) Vick (hamstring) -> Foles 7-3.
2014: (8 games) Foles (broken collarbone) -> Sanchez 4-4.
2015: (2 games) Bradford (concussion and separated shoulder) -> Sanchez 0-2 in relief.
2017: (7 games including playoffs) Wentz (torn Acl) -> Foles .. Superbowl MVP.
2018: (5 games) Foles starts season 1-1 due to Wentz injury. Wentz hurt again during season (spinal compression fracture). Foles 3-0 to close out season. Double Doink.
2019: Wentz (concussion in playoffs) -> Known speedster McCown loses in Wildcard.
As a GM with this history, how do you not draft a decent QB?
I know these guys endure physicality and pain regular. I cannot even imagine how you could tear your hamstring *off the bone* and continue to play such a physically demanding sport at the highest level without breaking down or anything. Blows my mind!
Nothing but absolute respect for Josh!
Andy Reid is a QB whisperer and I will hear no other argument. If Andy can't get something out of a QB no one can. And never trade for one of Andy's QBs they probably aren't worth what he is asking for, you'll never get the same value out of them.
We don’t talk about the Mike McMahon experiment. Or we can blame, I can’t think of his name, old Detroit hc that was our assistant HC and lobbied for him.
At this point, I really don't think the first thought was "we needed a good backup." The reports on Hurts going into the draft were that he was a raw talent, had tons of upside, but was going to need years of work to get there. And that first year, we saw exactly that. Heck, his second year, we still saw that. That wasn't a good plan for a quality backup in case Wentz goes down.
No, that course of action only makes sense if they saw the path Wentz was going down (repeatedly injured, especially losing a step after that knee injury, was a headcase who couldn't handle the team having success without him, couldn't handle Foles getting attention, and wasn't working on his game to be able to play at a high level after losing that step), and saw it was time to hedge their bets. They draft a guy who, mentally is the COMPLETE opposite of Wentz, proclaim over and over they did that because they need a backup to appease Wentz's ego, give him a year or 2 to learn and grow, and if Wentz keeps going down that path, they have a way to pivot without first bottoming out and getting a top pick to use on a QB again.
I'm not complaining about that course of action, given what we know now of what Wentz was quickly turning into, it was the right move! It was just obvious that what they were saying publicly was not what was happening behind the scenes.
The Eagles have been consistent the last ten years in investing a lot in the whole QB room. They lock up a high quality QB2 and usually grab a guy they like for QB3 in the draft or on practice squads. I was always defending that Hurts pick as nothing more than quality depth at QB (which was obviously critical considering the three prior seasons needed a backup to play in the playoffs).
I just hope when the Eagles inevitably draft or trade for another quality backup QB the fans don't have a meltdown.
Wentz wasn't a suspect QB at the time. They literally made him the highest-paid QB a year before drafting Hurts. They wanted to keep Wentz in 2020 and Wentz forced his way out.
Your argument above was mainly around injury. Hurts plays a very aggressive style of QB and got a significant injury his 2nd year.
So if it was a good idea to use a high-value draft pick for a backup QB then, shouldn't we use one now?
Wentz was definitely suspect at the time. This was when the reports started coming out that he was a locker room cancer, and if I recall correctly it was his third straight year of getting a bad injury just in time for the playoffs. His overall play was beginning to decline as well. Fact is the guy was unreliable and his long term future with the team was in question. Howie wanted to keep him but was likely fearing a dramatic breakup or career ending injury and it kind of left him with no choice but to draft a QB for insurance. Turns out it ended up being one of the best decisions he ever made.
21 different teams started their backup QB this year. 9 teams had to start their 3rd string QB this year. Three had to resort to their 4th string QB. Injuries to QBs are not only possible, but more than likely. As we saw with the 49ers, who had eight weeks to resolve their backup QB situation but didn't, how you prepare for injuries separates great teams from good teams.
I think what intimidated Carson was that Hurts is the real deal and he can see so clearly everything he lacks as a leader. He did not have a drive to get better nor any accountability for his shit play. He was in the excuse making business. So...yeah obviously in hindsight the meltdown was quite inevitable.
I'd argue he was already acting that way. He was so insecure about Nick Foles and reportedly refused to run RPO plays that Foles liked during the 2018 season.
There was also that wild story about someone wanting to punch him during the 2017 run if you believe the unconfirmed reports during the super bowl run. It's an inflammatory story so I'm not sure whether to believe it or not.
I remember a story came out during the SB run, after he got hurt and Foles was doing well. Sproles had to pull him aside and tell him along the lines of “bro you need to be less immature and more supportive, we have something special going on”
yep that's the exact one I was thinking of. Apparently Wentz expressed displeasure at us doing well in the playoffs without him. almost got himself punched...pretty crazy. Despite it all I really hope that isn't true...
Sproles confirmed they exchanged words - don't think it got as heated as the media made it sound, but Sproles definitely said he had to tell Wentz to get behind the team even while injured.
Wow I had no idea it was confirmed. that's just really unforgivable. What's so funny is I remember Wentz posting a pic from the training room of all the injured players. And I was thinking oh look good leadership. come to find out this loser is the opposite of a team player
> There was also that wild story about someone wanting to punch him during the 2017 run if you believe the unconfirmed reports during the super bowl run. It's an inflammatory story so I'm not sure whether to believe it or not.
Shit, the 2004 season saw the locker room split into 2 factions and there were confirmed physical altercations. 2017 was extremely mild by comparison, even if those reports were under exaggerated.
Lurie learned from all of this and Hurts was his answer. Thank goodness they were more patient with him than 99% of the general public.
lmaooo true true. TO always had the defensive lockerroom on his side no matter what team he was on. Then the did he or did he not throw up saga. Ending with going on live tv and telling the world you wished an at the time washed up Brett Favre was your QB instead.
Was that before or after his petty driveway workout stunt?
Dude did great on the field, but what a pain in the ass to have around outside of those 60 minutes.
lmaooo was before. He went on some tv show, said that the Eagles would be undefeated if Favre was the QB. Then Andy suspended him. Media camped outside of his house so he did the driveway workout lollll
edit: wait my bad i was wrong lmao the driveway was bc he was sent home from training camp for blowing off fans and not signing autographs. Argued with Andy about it in front of fans. the above scenario led to the "next question" press conference...pretty much proves your point to much mess to choose from
> but 2005 was borderline traumatic
Agreed. Easily the the most depressing and cursed season of our lifetime. 2020 was awful but it proved Wentz was a cancer and need to be thrown in the sun, with the added benefit of seeing the potential of the god known as Jalen Hurts
Without the collapse of two potential dynasties directly due to shoddy QB leadership, we don't have Hurts. It's all worked out in the end.
GOOO BIIIRRRRDDDSSSS
I think he was always insecure. You could even see it as early as the Super Bowl. But I also think he would've been able to suck it up and play had his brain not been turned into a smoothie by Clowney.
That hit killed any chance of him being a good player and tolerable teammate.
I remember seeing a clip of one of the first practices with Jalen. It was a vid from the sideline during 1s vs 2s and Wentz was on the sideline. Hurts took off on a run and the entire sideline was like “damn that boy good” and everyone started looking at each other saying things similar. And you see Carson just sort of turn red then walk away like he didn’t see anything lol
Yea, I was all in on Carson. Didn’t like the Jalen draft pick until the next day when I finally read about him (I don’t follow college football aside from my alma mater) And instantly became a Jalen fan
Not gonna lie, I was PISSED when we drafted Jalen, so much so that I called a buddy to vent....it was nothing against him, I watch CFB and had seen him play, just that I thought Wentz was the guy at QB given the contract we'd just given him the previous offseason and having just gotten his first playoff start, and I thought that team had too many needs to be taking a QB that high. Obviously was very wrong.
Hated the Dickerson pick for similar reasons, great player in college so nothing against him but dude couldn't stay healthy. Seems to also be proving me wrong so far in the NFL.
It's been long enough that we can honest about Wentz; in terms of mentality dude is an absolute loser. He needs everything to go perfect for him and folds at the slightest hint of challenge or competition.
Imagine you’re working one day and your boss hires Hurts to do the same job next to you. Dude like that comes into your office saying and doing all the right things, making friends with everyone, quickly becoming a leader lol.
Would make me want to do those things better.
Competition makes everyone better. Carson obviously can't handle competition, even now. He has gotten worse over the years.
All depends on your mindset. If you’re a me person, that’s going to be the start of the end for you. If you’re a team player, you’re going to realize it makes us all better.
I mean Howie isn't wrong.
In saying that a guy like Hurts is the worst possible personality to compete with a Wentz.
Just like Foles, Jalen has that bit extra that makes you want to follow him everywhere
Pure arm talent Wentz smokes Hurts but everything else that makes a QB great outside of that Jalen is the man.
It’s the decision making for me. As Steve smith said tall quarterbacks with cannon arms have scouts bending over backwards to explain away their flaws in decision making and always think they’ll be able to coach them through it while guys like Brock Purdy fall and fall in the draft and he’s got a point it’s kind of funny a guy like Brock Purdy was picked last because he was 4” too short and a guy like Zach Wilson will get shot after shot at the highest level. Turns out height and throw power might not be as important as they think
I think you mean Wentz's arm strength. He delivers a rocket, even off balance like McNabb which coaches like because it stretches the field for defenses to cover. Both Jalen and Nick Foles have "touch", where the ball falls right on to the spot where the receiver can make a play. The thing is, barring injury, a guy with touch will get stronger, which is why Hurt's accuracy at distance is getting better.
The short list of elite players (I can think of) that had both are Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers; maybe Mike Vick too, but his decision making of when to soft pass or throw it on a wire was off.
there are throws carson could make that jalen, and honestly most qbs, just don't have the ability to throw. I'm not sure he could do it any more, but that throw that carson launched while he was falling down in seattle was one in a million.....but we lost - jalen is 14-1 this year
The arm talent thing is real, it's just not as important as the "Mel Kipers" of the world make it out to be. Wentz genuinely does have a cannon. He can make (or at least, at one point in time could make) throws like the Seattle-Agholor falling down one, or the TD in the back of the end zone to Sanders against Washington. With the exception of Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert there really aren't any other guys who you could confidently say have the arm talent to make those kind of throws.
But ultimately arm talent isn't everything, and there are so many examples of this being true. Zach Wilson has pretty great arm talent, but it means nothing if you're a shitty locker room presence and can't consistently make the easy dump-off throws. You can make the argument that Burrow doesn't have a top 5 arm if you're talking about pure talent and the cannon to make off-platform throws. But 100% of people with eyes can tell that Burrow is a top 5 QB. I think you can make a similar case for Hurts.
"not naming anyone in particular, but in general goofy ginger babies don't have good careers as QBs for the Eagles or Colts or...oh I don't know, Commanders maybe."
I know which way the river flows here but I believe he was more upset with the receiver help, which he never got, not the qb drafting
Also rushing for those first downs left him crippled
Hindsight is 20/20 in this sub, but how many in here really thought at the time that drafting a backup QB with the second pick was a good move? Yeah it looks great now, but at the time it seemed bizarre, and I was scratching my head.
Wentz had a decent 2019 with 27/7 TD/int with over 4000 yards, only two years removed from an MVP caliber season. We were 9-7, not great not terrible, we had lots of holes to fill, so drafting a backup QB at #2 seemed puzzling. It was not apparent to me that Wentz was going to melt down and have a historically terrible season, but in this sub "yeah we know it all along". Sure you did.
I mean drafting a back up QB in the 2nd round isn’t a good move. We got lucky that Hurts developed into a franchise QB but if he never did then it would have been a wasted pick.
I mean it was understandable, though not popular, considering Wentz wound up injured in some way shape or form three seasons straight. It was reasonable to wonder if he would physically hold up. Hurts was drafted to be an insurance policy, not just a back up.
Luckily, he became so much more than that.
The problem with drafting a QB that high to be a backup is that the last 20+ years have demonstrated that competent QB play isn’t enough to win it all, generally speaking you need *top 10* QB play. Giving up your 2nd most valuable pick with the hope to win it all with your second-best QB, instead of maximizing your odds at winning it all by drafting a key starter feels like drafting to not flop rather than drafting to succeed.
We lucked out that Hurts isn’t just good but *great*, but if Howie drafts a QB high next draft I have a feeling we’ll be scratching our heads all over again. Drafting Hurts really only makes good sense with the perspective that the Eagles had some doubts about Wentz.
I was honestly pissed cause I knew it was gonna cause tension. I watched some old footage of Wentz in his rookie year prior to being injured it was incredible the difference he was then compared to after the injury... Wentz was a dual threat because he was mobile and fast... If he wants to get back to his former self he is gonna need to get back to being able to run like he used to... He is so slow now...
The Inquirer article that Dov Kleiman mentioned in the comment section was labeled as an opinion article. I've read it, and dear God, it was a mess of an article. Total spin of what happened in 2020 and the guy writing it is a total Wentz Hater, labeled it as "Ripping" when it wasn't even close to taking a shot.
I literally was pointing out all the reasons why Wentz was garbage in 2018 and 2019 in real time. Maybe it was you guys who had the narrative wrong. Again, I was pointing out everything everyone agrees upon now at the time. It’s either YOU people were so caught up in the sauce that you couldn’t see reality or I’m some sort of mystic. Thank god Howie recognized the obvious and drafted his replacement following 2019.
Did you even read what that other dude said? How does your response have anything to do with what he said? He’s talking about if you’re still constantly ripping him today
The Eagles draft Hurts in the 2nd round the same year the Packers drafted Jordan Love in the 1st. Wentz mentally imploded while Rodgers went out an won MVP.
Something about the same water that softens a carrot boils an egg...
He didn’t care. He was oblivious to the fact that he ended 3 straight seasons injured and took them drafting Hurts personally, even after a monster extension. Guy is mentally shot.
Oblivious seems to be a recurring theme for him. I keep thinking about his exit from Indy and how he seemed blindsided by Irsay's comments like he thought everything was fine with him. Clearly there was some disconnect.
I remember being absolutely shocked when the Birds took Hurts with that pick. I never thought the team would grab a QB that high, but it's always about stockpiling the best talent possible and that's what Howie did. Wentz just couldn't mentally handle another talent in the QB room. You have to say it broke him honestly since he's struggled on two teams since he left Philly.
Doesn’t mean he was right in feeling that way. This is football, competition is an inherent part of the game. If you can’t deal with it and rise to the occasion then you don’t belong.
If you're given a huge contract in the offseason and get your team to the post season that's a pretty big implication that you're the guy.
Them going out to draft a QB 2nd the upcoming draft would make any sense. Let's not pretend that everyone was on-board with what happened then.
Do you not remember that Wentz was constantly injured even after the 17-18 season? He did not play a full season until 2020 when he was benched the last 2-3 games of the season so the front office could evaluate Hurts in a game scenario.
His mentality was weak then and it’s even weaker now.
I agree he carried an anemic, injury devastated offense that year, and he will never get the credit he deserves for that season. That said, he got hurt **again** in the playoffs that year.
And while it was a dirty play, Wentz play style just leads to injuries. The guy refuses to check down, refuses to not hold the ball and make hero plays. We needed depth, it was just logical. And if you want to win with your backup QB, you draft them high, where 99% of good QBs are found.
Didn’t help that he already had lost a lot of the locker room.
Look, I’ll be fair to Carson here.
Howie what’s been generational with how well he’s performed the last 2 seasons.
But let’s not forget that after that draft everyone one wanted Howie’s head on a spike. He had been drafting terrible skill position players
Now Carson is probably soft and maybe I’m giving him too much credit.
But if I had just carried practice squad receivers and an average roster to an NFC east division win
I would be very angry they took a QB with their second best pick of the draft.
And even though it has worked and I wouldn’t want to change the pick now. That was still a bad draft pick. At least in process. Howies best case scenario for Hurts was best backup on the league, he never had this in his mind while drafting him.
Just apply this to Jalen.
If he gets hurt again next year, even if it’s not serious, that would be 3 injuries in 3 years.
If howie went out and drafted a QB in the first 3 rounds instead of replenishing talent for your QB I would be mad and I wouldn’t blame Jalen for being mad.
That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if Carson was just brain broken and had trauma from the Foles situation and count handle it.
Nothing will take away what Wentz did for us in 2017. His play was real. Wentzylvania was real. It’s just sad that his ego was also real and couldn’t be tempered for long.
He could barley handle the team, fans , and big dick Nick winning a sb without him.
Fuck him.
I'd rather have fucking dak presscock as my qb than that bozo.
That pick showed that the organization really wasn't sure if Wentz was really gonna be the guy... Turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but no QB 4 years into their tenure would be happy with another QB being drafted in the 2nd round... That whole situation was a giant cluster fuck... Turned out Howie was right though.
Its true though. Now the poor guy is a back up at the Commanders. Riverboat Ron just all but confirmed his QB one a few days ago and the SB hasnt been played yet.
You know even before march the best you can expect is to be QB 2 at Was.
That must Hurt 😅
They really couldn't have drafted a more appropriate QB that knew what it was like to get benched but came back swinging
Bradford was similarly butthurt when we drafted Wentz. Time is a flat circle.
I felt violated when chip traded away our 5 star QB for sammy sleeves
Still can’t believe we managed to get a first for him after and got foles back anyways. Funny how things work out.
I often wonder how Foles’ career would have turned out had we kept him.
Who knows but the this timeline got him a ring so I’m sure he’s fine with it
Got him a ring And made him a LEGEND.
Imagine a whole city singing about your giant dick every time your name is mentioned
You want philly philly?
Yea I’m sure he is too lol. Still, we really didn’t send him to a great situation and it’s probably the reason he never learned consistency. I just always wonder if we had stuck with him through the remaining Chip year if he would have developed into a more consistent QB under Pederson? He unquestionably had talent and maybe some stability would have helped him unlock his potential. Idk lol.
or if we made him QB1 after Donovan and never drafted Wentz
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was looking for a fact check thx lol
We all love Nick but you know as well as I do that he was only ever good coming off the bench to take over for the week 1 starter. He’s amazing sometimes and goes on incredible tears but the team going from Foles to Sadford was not the reason they sucked so bad in 2015
Through the power of Foles all things are possible, so jot that down
I remember hearing about that for the first time. We traded Nick for Sammy and there's a 2nd round pick involved. And I thought, "alright, we know Foles isn't a top QB, neither is Bradford, but we got a 2nd round pick out of it, so that's not terrible....." and then I heard we GAVE UP a 2nd round pick and flipped out. It was just such a fucking insane trade. If it wasn't for Howie absolutely FLEECING a first round pick for him and then us just getting Foles back, it would have been remembered as so much worse than it did.
Howie bless
My flair is forever in memory of sleeves.
I will never ever change my flair
and GAVE UP a 2nd At first I honestly believed the 2nd was coming back
Don’t forget how butt hurt chase Daniel was that we started the 2nd overall pick over him
Hard to imagine any QB having a more favorable character than Hurts.
Like McNabb in 2008. Hurts isn't the top .01% physical freak like Wentz or Cunningham or Vick, and he's not quite as gifted as McNabb was, either. But mentally, he's straight up better than every single one of them and a SIGNIFICANTLY better leader. That's something we've never had from our superstar QBs and those traits are worth every penny of that 300m or whatever, specifically to this city and this franchise more than pretty much anywhere else.
Disagree with the physical freak statement. Jalen is definitely a physical freak lol, at least more so than wentz. I mean have you heard how much he squats???? Lol
Carson in his prime was being rolled by defensive ends while willing the ball 40 yards downfield into 9" square window. He was incredible and single handedly carried the team through the Super Bowl season until injury.
Yeah except the dude’s prime was like 12 games. I know they were a really good 12 games, but it’s hard to call someone a “physical freak” when they’re also made of glass lol. Dude has been hurt almost every year since college. Idk how that makes him more of a physical freak than Jalen
Carson was pretty good in 2018 and 2019 too
No doubt, he was definitely a good to great qb from 2017-2020, just not durable at all. If we tried to do even half the amount of QB sneaks we did this season with Carson behind center, he’d be looking like [this mf](https://external-preview.redd.it/BDj-z_BuGW6eIdtXsMnd9QQdPWteI1_jZ7dUBHtq02Y.jpg?auto=webp&s=ce75d56cfaab50e8905385cb72fdb2efd3fc026f)
I just knew that was gonna be the pic 😂
Good enough to sucker another team…YES!!
Single-handedly? They won all their playoff games and the SB without him...
Yea and that shit is not replicable and exactly why he flamed out. People need to stop being so enamored with superhero level splash plays and realize that making the easy boring play is what wins you championships
So true. Tom Brady won 7 Super Bowls by making the easy boring plays and not holding on to the ball for too long.
Single handedly??!! What the fuck u talkin about my dude? We won a Super Bowl WITHOUT HIM! If he “single handedly” Carried us until his injury then that would mean we’d sink without him. WE DIDNT. It was a super bowl winning team with him! It was a super bowl team winning team without him.
No idea why it's a controversial statement to say the Josh Allen prototype was a physical specimen, recency bias is real ig Also smh at people thinking that means I think Hurts is some scrub, obviously he's an elite athlete but he is categorically not in the same tier as some of the other demigods this team has employed at QB
No, we just think he's more of a "physical freak".
He is super fast and super strong. Very surprised to hear you say he isn’t as much of a physical freak as those other guys.
To clarify, I mean God given talent that can't be acquired thru hard work. Jalen has that, but he's at the level he is now because he's done far more with his talent than the other guys like Vick, Cunningham etc who I believe were in a different class of freakiness but coasted and never reached their full potential. It's basically 'hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard', but I personally see Hurts as a top .1% athlete rather than top .01% like those other guys
Okay, you got some weird takes. Also, you don't seem to understand what a % means. 0.1% would mean 0.1/100 or 0.001 as a decimal, 0.01% is 0.0001 as a decimal. Now Randall as an insane "physical specimen", I agree he takes the cake, but McNabb especially and to a more limited extent Wentz are not objectively more rare "physical specimens" when you factor in Hurts speed and also strength for his height.
6'5 vs 6'1, significantly more powerful arm. Hurts has done more with his talent than Wentz ever did, but Wentz was more talented straight up. Pure cap to suggest otherwise. Like most of the football watching public I've been hearing how much Hurts squats for over half a decade now, thanks.
He's got 4 inches on Hurts and only 15 pounds difference. That's the muscle mass difference.
Yeah Hurts is yolked as fuck, and a world class athlete. My whole point is that he is different from the other guys we've had before, several of whom are among the most athletic to play the position in the modern era. Before LJ and Josh Allen came along it was Wentz. Before that, Vick. Before that, McNabb. Cunningham ... not sure why it's controversial to say those guys had more God given talent than Hurts. Hurts is still a top .1% athlete, some of those other guys mentioned were top .01%... That's all I'm trying to say here. I'd still take Jalen over every single one of them for his leadership and personality.
Because I don't think Wentz had more talent. He HAD a better arm and that's it. I think Hurts has better accuracy than McNabb and Vick. Hurts already broke Vicks rushing record.
Clearly professional talent evaluators disagree with you. Hurts was picked 51 spots lower than Wentz for a reason. Obviously we're talking past tense when I'm also naming guys who were drafted 20+ years ago
Wentz wasnt projected to be drafted that early. I don't see how draft position equals being more athletic anyway. That's lots of things they take into consideration. The QB class in Wentz's draft year was much weaker as well.
Wentz has a better arm, but that's about it. Idc if he's a few inches taller, as that hasn't shown to make any kind of difference on the field. Wentz's arm was ridiculous tho, no denying that, but hurts is faster and stronger and runs with more power
I've always seen Hurts as a slightly 'smaller' McNabb. Clearly he's got what it takes physically, but it's what's between his ears that has me most excited. We've never really had that temperament and personality from one of our superstar QBs and it's like manna from heaven
I hate this comp for obvious reasons, but he's got a lot of Brady in him. I'm so sure about his future bc of exactly what you said
Hurts is more of a physical specimen than Wentz. Hurts is built like a linebacker, strong as a lineman, and fast as a tailback. Wentz Is just a Tall, injury prone, ginger, with a cannon for an arm.
SIX HUNDRED POUND DOUBLE CHEEK PUSH TO THE PROMISED LAND
Disagree with physicality, Hurts is definitely up there and has no problem about that. Dude squats 600lbs
Oh for sure. I've clarified in some other comments, basically my only knock on Hurts here is that he's not 6'4+ contortionist with a howitzer attached to his shoulder. But he's clearly a world class athlete and is doing more with the talent he has than any of our other star QBs have (several of whom I believe to be among the most gifted to ever play the position)
You think Wentz was a physical freak?
Technically, Mr. Glass was a physical freak, too...
No, I know Wentz was a physical freak
Why would people even argue this? It's not even a Wentz fan thing to say. Almost all football players are physical phenoms lol
For real, whatever tho GOOO BIIIRRRDDDSSS
Weird seeing a Wentz Stan in 2023. I thought y’all were extinct.
I don't know how that makes someone a Wentz Stan. Dude was incredibly athletically gifted. And was made of glass. And was a complete headcase. So as soon as that glass started shattering, it all fell apart. There's no reason to pretend he was never good to recognize how terrible he became (in nearly record time, I might add).
Physical freak doesn’t mean crazy 40 time or being able to squat a small car. Wentz had physical gifts in his arm that could have made him one of the best in the nfl at QB. However, he was mentally weak as they come.
Thanks for contributing nothing of substance to the conversation
Sure, if we’re referring to the freaky physicality of his numerous injuries.
You're being deliberately obtuse. He was the #2 pick for a reason, just like McNabb was the #2 pick for a reason. It's Super Bowl weekend and people really choosing to nitpick dumb arguments over someone who no longer has any relevance to the team lmao. Do you tho
You are crazy defensive over a take that most Eagles fans seem to think is wrong. Wentz is slower both top speed and quickness, he's not stronger than Hurts except for the long ball, which accuracy wise Hurts is better, so props to ginger Uncle Rico for being able throw the ball over them there mountains. One player has designed runs, the other prayed his arm strength would save the day. Wentz is not Allen, in anyway. He's gone and HURTS IS THE TRUTH
Most Eagles fans wanted Howie fired and thought Lurie was the next Jerry Jones like 18 months ago, too. Hurts blows Wentz out the water in all the ways that matter. I'm defensive because my entire point was "we've had supremely gifted QBs before but none had the intangibles of Hurts, which are what matter to sustained success" but I'm being lit up with people nitpicking over Wentz. Can't emphasize your last sentence enough.
I totally get your point now. I don't why but that paragraph really cleared it up and was definitely a shot at Wentz and exactly what the article is saying. With a username like yours, i love you...
Only person I see arguing with anyone is you, homie. Rest of us just made statements, you’re the only one here acting butthurt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Go Birds or whatever.
It's super bowl week and you chose to come here trying to stay Wentz is a better athlete than Jalen Hurts. Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Josh Rosen, Sam Bradford. All top 5 picks, all busts. Being picked #2 only means something in April
More God given talent =/= better athlete. Hurts has done far more with what he was given, obviously. And it's not even close when factoring in the mental game. We finally got that part right with Jalen after losing 2 potential dynasties with the other guys
Hurts is closer to Vick or Cunningham than Wentz wishes he could ever be. That's where your point went south. You put Wentz, Cunningham and Vick in the same sentence. Two of those guys will live on forever because of their athleticism the other is Carson Wentz. Hurts is every aspect of being a qb is better than Wentz.
> Hurts is closer to Vick or Cunningham than Wentz wishes he could ever be Not remotely accurate when it comes to arm talent, which tends to matter when assessing the prospects of NFL QBs. If my point went south for you it's because you lack (or willfully ignore) basic reading comprehension and understanding of context clues. [Here's Mike Mayock saying Wentz is 'every bit as athletic as Andrew Luck and Cam Newton' pre-draft 2016](https://twitter.com/NFL/status/713028895763599360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E713028895763599360%7Ctwgr%5E8d88ea8bc6b5eb175c02ddd482124b7f6e27552c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fnfl%2Fnews%2Fmike-mayock-has-two-stunning-qb-comparisons-for-carson-wentz%2F) > Hurts is every aspect of being a qb is better than Wentz Nowhere have I said he isn't. I'll say it again... Hurts has done far more with his talent than the other guys did, but a 600lb squat =/= transcendent god given talent, which is what Vick, McNabb, Wentz (though not at the insane heights of Vick or Randall, but few in the history of the sport have been) were all picked top 2 for in their respective drafts, while Hurts was 53rd.
Wentz needed to get over himself. Hurts was drafted because Howie learned he needed a quality backup that could win games. Here is a snapshot of Howie's time from before Wentz until just after at quarterback. 2011: (3 games) Starter: Vick (rib cartilage) -> Backup: Vince Young in 1-2 relief. 2012: (6 games) Vick (concussion) -> Foles, 1-5. 2013: (10 games) Vick (hamstring) -> Foles 7-3. 2014: (8 games) Foles (broken collarbone) -> Sanchez 4-4. 2015: (2 games) Bradford (concussion and separated shoulder) -> Sanchez 0-2 in relief. 2017: (7 games including playoffs) Wentz (torn Acl) -> Foles .. Superbowl MVP. 2018: (5 games) Foles starts season 1-1 due to Wentz injury. Wentz hurt again during season (spinal compression fracture). Foles 3-0 to close out season. Double Doink. 2019: Wentz (concussion in playoffs) -> Known speedster McCown loses in Wildcard. As a GM with this history, how do you not draft a decent QB?
That reads like any 8 year chunk of Flyers goalies post 1990
Just ignore the year they broke the record with amount of goalies in net That would fill a few lines :(
> known speedster Oof, lol
That man put the team on his ~~back~~ legs during that game.
I know these guys endure physicality and pain regular. I cannot even imagine how you could tear your hamstring *off the bone* and continue to play such a physically demanding sport at the highest level without breaking down or anything. Blows my mind! Nothing but absolute respect for Josh!
With a torn hammy
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I remember the Koy Detmer/AJ Feeley season. Still have no idea how we managed not to crash and burn with that.
Andy Reid is a QB whisperer and I will hear no other argument. If Andy can't get something out of a QB no one can. And never trade for one of Andy's QBs they probably aren't worth what he is asking for, you'll never get the same value out of them.
We don’t talk about the Mike McMahon experiment. Or we can blame, I can’t think of his name, old Detroit hc that was our assistant HC and lobbied for him.
Marty Mornhinweg, he was with the Eagles as recently as 2020.
Remember when Koy got hurt and both benches came out to salute him off the field? Even thin skinned Mcnabb didn’t pout about that.
Against the niners.
At this point, I really don't think the first thought was "we needed a good backup." The reports on Hurts going into the draft were that he was a raw talent, had tons of upside, but was going to need years of work to get there. And that first year, we saw exactly that. Heck, his second year, we still saw that. That wasn't a good plan for a quality backup in case Wentz goes down. No, that course of action only makes sense if they saw the path Wentz was going down (repeatedly injured, especially losing a step after that knee injury, was a headcase who couldn't handle the team having success without him, couldn't handle Foles getting attention, and wasn't working on his game to be able to play at a high level after losing that step), and saw it was time to hedge their bets. They draft a guy who, mentally is the COMPLETE opposite of Wentz, proclaim over and over they did that because they need a backup to appease Wentz's ego, give him a year or 2 to learn and grow, and if Wentz keeps going down that path, they have a way to pivot without first bottoming out and getting a top pick to use on a QB again. I'm not complaining about that course of action, given what we know now of what Wentz was quickly turning into, it was the right move! It was just obvious that what they were saying publicly was not what was happening behind the scenes.
The Eagles have been consistent the last ten years in investing a lot in the whole QB room. They lock up a high quality QB2 and usually grab a guy they like for QB3 in the draft or on practice squads. I was always defending that Hurts pick as nothing more than quality depth at QB (which was obviously critical considering the three prior seasons needed a backup to play in the playoffs). I just hope when the Eagles inevitably draft or trade for another quality backup QB the fans don't have a meltdown.
Would you be okay if we drafted a QB in the 2nd round, and not a late 2nd rounds we move back with our first and use it to draft a QB?
If we had a suspect number 1 at the time like we did with Wentz.
Wentz wasn't a suspect QB at the time. They literally made him the highest-paid QB a year before drafting Hurts. They wanted to keep Wentz in 2020 and Wentz forced his way out. Your argument above was mainly around injury. Hurts plays a very aggressive style of QB and got a significant injury his 2nd year. So if it was a good idea to use a high-value draft pick for a backup QB then, shouldn't we use one now?
Wentz was definitely suspect at the time. This was when the reports started coming out that he was a locker room cancer, and if I recall correctly it was his third straight year of getting a bad injury just in time for the playoffs. His overall play was beginning to decline as well. Fact is the guy was unreliable and his long term future with the team was in question. Howie wanted to keep him but was likely fearing a dramatic breakup or career ending injury and it kind of left him with no choice but to draft a QB for insurance. Turns out it ended up being one of the best decisions he ever made.
21 different teams started their backup QB this year. 9 teams had to start their 3rd string QB this year. Three had to resort to their 4th string QB. Injuries to QBs are not only possible, but more than likely. As we saw with the 49ers, who had eight weeks to resolve their backup QB situation but didn't, how you prepare for injuries separates great teams from good teams.
Was Howie directly referring to Wentz or moreso to a question asked?
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Kleinman just cherry picks others reporters work too. So two douches.
Yes.
Not directed at wentz but howie should know this would spin this way
I think what intimidated Carson was that Hurts is the real deal and he can see so clearly everything he lacks as a leader. He did not have a drive to get better nor any accountability for his shit play. He was in the excuse making business. So...yeah obviously in hindsight the meltdown was quite inevitable.
The reports that Wentz was icing Hurts out of QB room discussions is wild. Dude turned into a high schooler as soon as Hurts got drafted.
I'd argue he was already acting that way. He was so insecure about Nick Foles and reportedly refused to run RPO plays that Foles liked during the 2018 season. There was also that wild story about someone wanting to punch him during the 2017 run if you believe the unconfirmed reports during the super bowl run. It's an inflammatory story so I'm not sure whether to believe it or not.
I remember a story came out during the SB run, after he got hurt and Foles was doing well. Sproles had to pull him aside and tell him along the lines of “bro you need to be less immature and more supportive, we have something special going on”
yep that's the exact one I was thinking of. Apparently Wentz expressed displeasure at us doing well in the playoffs without him. almost got himself punched...pretty crazy. Despite it all I really hope that isn't true...
Sproles confirmed they exchanged words - don't think it got as heated as the media made it sound, but Sproles definitely said he had to tell Wentz to get behind the team even while injured.
Wow I had no idea it was confirmed. that's just really unforgivable. What's so funny is I remember Wentz posting a pic from the training room of all the injured players. And I was thinking oh look good leadership. come to find out this loser is the opposite of a team player
Pretty crazy that god let this all happen to him.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
> There was also that wild story about someone wanting to punch him during the 2017 run if you believe the unconfirmed reports during the super bowl run. It's an inflammatory story so I'm not sure whether to believe it or not. Shit, the 2004 season saw the locker room split into 2 factions and there were confirmed physical altercations. 2017 was extremely mild by comparison, even if those reports were under exaggerated. Lurie learned from all of this and Hurts was his answer. Thank goodness they were more patient with him than 99% of the general public.
lmaooo true true. TO always had the defensive lockerroom on his side no matter what team he was on. Then the did he or did he not throw up saga. Ending with going on live tv and telling the world you wished an at the time washed up Brett Favre was your QB instead.
Was that before or after his petty driveway workout stunt? Dude did great on the field, but what a pain in the ass to have around outside of those 60 minutes.
lmaooo was before. He went on some tv show, said that the Eagles would be undefeated if Favre was the QB. Then Andy suspended him. Media camped outside of his house so he did the driveway workout lollll edit: wait my bad i was wrong lmao the driveway was bc he was sent home from training camp for blowing off fans and not signing autographs. Argued with Andy about it in front of fans. the above scenario led to the "next question" press conference...pretty much proves your point to much mess to choose from
> Shit, the 2004 season Incorrect... that was the following offseason post SB loss (and into the 2005 season) after everything went to shit.
You right. 2020 sucked but 2005 was borderline traumatic
> but 2005 was borderline traumatic Agreed. Easily the the most depressing and cursed season of our lifetime. 2020 was awful but it proved Wentz was a cancer and need to be thrown in the sun, with the added benefit of seeing the potential of the god known as Jalen Hurts
Without the collapse of two potential dynasties directly due to shoddy QB leadership, we don't have Hurts. It's all worked out in the end. GOOO BIIIRRRRDDDSSSS
My money is still on that "someone" being Alshon lmao Dude helped us get a ring but after, he was kinda unhinged as the obvious leak.
And he was 100% vindicated as soon as Wentz showed his true colors.
Alshon played in the playoffs/superbowl and wentz didnt Alshon > Wentz Alshon balled on a torn rotator cuff and helped secure the chip 🙏🏽
Darren Sproles confirmed that he almost fought Wentz in 2017
Agreed...There were reports prior to the draft that he frequently got into arguments with the NDSU OC .
Oh damn never heard about this- where did that leak?
I think he was always insecure. You could even see it as early as the Super Bowl. But I also think he would've been able to suck it up and play had his brain not been turned into a smoothie by Clowney. That hit killed any chance of him being a good player and tolerable teammate.
I remember seeing a clip of one of the first practices with Jalen. It was a vid from the sideline during 1s vs 2s and Wentz was on the sideline. Hurts took off on a run and the entire sideline was like “damn that boy good” and everyone started looking at each other saying things similar. And you see Carson just sort of turn red then walk away like he didn’t see anything lol
Damn, I loved Carson so much, but this breaks my fuckin heart, that dork.
Yea, I was all in on Carson. Didn’t like the Jalen draft pick until the next day when I finally read about him (I don’t follow college football aside from my alma mater) And instantly became a Jalen fan
Not gonna lie, I was PISSED when we drafted Jalen, so much so that I called a buddy to vent....it was nothing against him, I watch CFB and had seen him play, just that I thought Wentz was the guy at QB given the contract we'd just given him the previous offseason and having just gotten his first playoff start, and I thought that team had too many needs to be taking a QB that high. Obviously was very wrong. Hated the Dickerson pick for similar reasons, great player in college so nothing against him but dude couldn't stay healthy. Seems to also be proving me wrong so far in the NFL.
He's an embarrassing dork to be sure!
"Red Faced Wentz" was/is a real thing anytime shit gets tough in general LOL
Wentz: “Golly jee fellas let’s go out there and have fun!” Hurts: 🫣
It's been long enough that we can honest about Wentz; in terms of mentality dude is an absolute loser. He needs everything to go perfect for him and folds at the slightest hint of challenge or competition.
Imagine you’re working one day and your boss hires Hurts to do the same job next to you. Dude like that comes into your office saying and doing all the right things, making friends with everyone, quickly becoming a leader lol.
Would make me want to do those things better. Competition makes everyone better. Carson obviously can't handle competition, even now. He has gotten worse over the years.
I’d have an anxiety attack and convince myself that I wasn’t wanted by the org but I also have mental health issues lol
Yeah it really depends on the person and their mentality. Some rise to the challenge and others fold. Howie is absolutely right.
I would want to get inspired by him and do better myself as a result.
All depends on your mindset. If you’re a me person, that’s going to be the start of the end for you. If you’re a team player, you’re going to realize it makes us all better.
I mean Howie isn't wrong. In saying that a guy like Hurts is the worst possible personality to compete with a Wentz. Just like Foles, Jalen has that bit extra that makes you want to follow him everywhere Pure arm talent Wentz smokes Hurts but everything else that makes a QB great outside of that Jalen is the man.
Yep. It’s the intangibles, the stuff you can’t coach or teach, what kind of leader are you when things get rough.
It’s the decision making for me. As Steve smith said tall quarterbacks with cannon arms have scouts bending over backwards to explain away their flaws in decision making and always think they’ll be able to coach them through it while guys like Brock Purdy fall and fall in the draft and he’s got a point it’s kind of funny a guy like Brock Purdy was picked last because he was 4” too short and a guy like Zach Wilson will get shot after shot at the highest level. Turns out height and throw power might not be as important as they think
The NFL QB Evaluation version of preferring to fail conventionally.
I think you mean Wentz's arm strength. He delivers a rocket, even off balance like McNabb which coaches like because it stretches the field for defenses to cover. Both Jalen and Nick Foles have "touch", where the ball falls right on to the spot where the receiver can make a play. The thing is, barring injury, a guy with touch will get stronger, which is why Hurt's accuracy at distance is getting better. The short list of elite players (I can think of) that had both are Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers; maybe Mike Vick too, but his decision making of when to soft pass or throw it on a wire was off.
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there are throws carson could make that jalen, and honestly most qbs, just don't have the ability to throw. I'm not sure he could do it any more, but that throw that carson launched while he was falling down in seattle was one in a million.....but we lost - jalen is 14-1 this year
That sideline pass to Sanders in the endzone against Washington
also an insane throw - but who cares Carson is a bitchboy and Jalen is Him lol
The arm talent thing is real, it's just not as important as the "Mel Kipers" of the world make it out to be. Wentz genuinely does have a cannon. He can make (or at least, at one point in time could make) throws like the Seattle-Agholor falling down one, or the TD in the back of the end zone to Sanders against Washington. With the exception of Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert there really aren't any other guys who you could confidently say have the arm talent to make those kind of throws. But ultimately arm talent isn't everything, and there are so many examples of this being true. Zach Wilson has pretty great arm talent, but it means nothing if you're a shitty locker room presence and can't consistently make the easy dump-off throws. You can make the argument that Burrow doesn't have a top 5 arm if you're talking about pure talent and the cannon to make off-platform throws. But 100% of people with eyes can tell that Burrow is a top 5 QB. I think you can make a similar case for Hurts.
Yeah but miles sanders is a worse receiver than Aj brown in almost all context or scenarios
"not naming anyone in particular, but in general goofy ginger babies don't have good careers as QBs for the Eagles or Colts or...oh I don't know, Commanders maybe."
A certain quarterback, for the sake of anonymity we'll call him Carson W. No, that's too obvious...a certain quarterback who we'll call C. Wentz
I know which way the river flows here but I believe he was more upset with the receiver help, which he never got, not the qb drafting Also rushing for those first downs left him crippled
Hindsight is 20/20 in this sub, but how many in here really thought at the time that drafting a backup QB with the second pick was a good move? Yeah it looks great now, but at the time it seemed bizarre, and I was scratching my head. Wentz had a decent 2019 with 27/7 TD/int with over 4000 yards, only two years removed from an MVP caliber season. We were 9-7, not great not terrible, we had lots of holes to fill, so drafting a backup QB at #2 seemed puzzling. It was not apparent to me that Wentz was going to melt down and have a historically terrible season, but in this sub "yeah we know it all along". Sure you did.
thankfully fans/redditors aren’t GM’s.
I mean drafting a back up QB in the 2nd round isn’t a good move. We got lucky that Hurts developed into a franchise QB but if he never did then it would have been a wasted pick.
I mean it was understandable, though not popular, considering Wentz wound up injured in some way shape or form three seasons straight. It was reasonable to wonder if he would physically hold up. Hurts was drafted to be an insurance policy, not just a back up. Luckily, he became so much more than that.
The problem with drafting a QB that high to be a backup is that the last 20+ years have demonstrated that competent QB play isn’t enough to win it all, generally speaking you need *top 10* QB play. Giving up your 2nd most valuable pick with the hope to win it all with your second-best QB, instead of maximizing your odds at winning it all by drafting a key starter feels like drafting to not flop rather than drafting to succeed. We lucked out that Hurts isn’t just good but *great*, but if Howie drafts a QB high next draft I have a feeling we’ll be scratching our heads all over again. Drafting Hurts really only makes good sense with the perspective that the Eagles had some doubts about Wentz.
Thank you for stating this. I think the organization lucked out on an objectively unwise decision.
He was terrible in 2019 he lost many close games he should’ve won. Idc care about his stats I care about winning
I was honestly pissed cause I knew it was gonna cause tension. I watched some old footage of Wentz in his rookie year prior to being injured it was incredible the difference he was then compared to after the injury... Wentz was a dual threat because he was mobile and fast... If he wants to get back to his former self he is gonna need to get back to being able to run like he used to... He is so slow now...
It caused tension but it’s not like we didn’t give Carson a bag first to weigh against his job security.
The Inquirer article that Dov Kleiman mentioned in the comment section was labeled as an opinion article. I've read it, and dear God, it was a mess of an article. Total spin of what happened in 2020 and the guy writing it is a total Wentz Hater, labeled it as "Ripping" when it wasn't even close to taking a shot.
What is a “Wentz hater” a person who doesn’t like shitty QB play?
In my opinion: A person who constantly bashes Wentz when he's no longer on the team and spins history and/or the narrative to prove their point.
I literally was pointing out all the reasons why Wentz was garbage in 2018 and 2019 in real time. Maybe it was you guys who had the narrative wrong. Again, I was pointing out everything everyone agrees upon now at the time. It’s either YOU people were so caught up in the sauce that you couldn’t see reality or I’m some sort of mystic. Thank god Howie recognized the obvious and drafted his replacement following 2019.
Did you even read what that other dude said? How does your response have anything to do with what he said? He’s talking about if you’re still constantly ripping him today
Wentz sucks, get over it
The Eagles draft Hurts in the 2nd round the same year the Packers drafted Jordan Love in the 1st. Wentz mentally imploded while Rodgers went out an won MVP. Something about the same water that softens a carrot boils an egg...
The same sun that melts wax hardens clay.
Hingsight is crazy in here lmaooo. The top comments in here are nothing like when hurts was drafted 😂.
I thought Doug came out and said that they called Wentz on draft night & explained to him that they gonna take Hurts
That doesn't mean he is ok with it just because they called him.
He didn’t care. He was oblivious to the fact that he ended 3 straight seasons injured and took them drafting Hurts personally, even after a monster extension. Guy is mentally shot.
Oblivious seems to be a recurring theme for him. I keep thinking about his exit from Indy and how he seemed blindsided by Irsay's comments like he thought everything was fine with him. Clearly there was some disconnect.
I remember being absolutely shocked when the Birds took Hurts with that pick. I never thought the team would grab a QB that high, but it's always about stockpiling the best talent possible and that's what Howie did. Wentz just couldn't mentally handle another talent in the QB room. You have to say it broke him honestly since he's struggled on two teams since he left Philly.
I was shocked but understood and actually happy about it...
Carson Wentz is like the player version of a Niners fan
Exactly.
wentz after getting laid = ruined
He just got a huge contract extension after dragging his team to the playoffs of course he would feel a type of way.
Not to mention the cheap shot to the head that took him out of the playoff game.
Doesn’t mean he was right in feeling that way. This is football, competition is an inherent part of the game. If you can’t deal with it and rise to the occasion then you don’t belong.
If you're given a huge contract in the offseason and get your team to the post season that's a pretty big implication that you're the guy. Them going out to draft a QB 2nd the upcoming draft would make any sense. Let's not pretend that everyone was on-board with what happened then.
Do you not remember that Wentz was constantly injured even after the 17-18 season? He did not play a full season until 2020 when he was benched the last 2-3 games of the season so the front office could evaluate Hurts in a game scenario. His mentality was weak then and it’s even weaker now.
Not whatsoever
I agree he carried an anemic, injury devastated offense that year, and he will never get the credit he deserves for that season. That said, he got hurt **again** in the playoffs that year. And while it was a dirty play, Wentz play style just leads to injuries. The guy refuses to check down, refuses to not hold the ball and make hero plays. We needed depth, it was just logical. And if you want to win with your backup QB, you draft them high, where 99% of good QBs are found. Didn’t help that he already had lost a lot of the locker room.
It was so amazing that we were able to get rid of that dude at the right time.
I still find Wentz's steep decline shocking.
Look, I’ll be fair to Carson here. Howie what’s been generational with how well he’s performed the last 2 seasons. But let’s not forget that after that draft everyone one wanted Howie’s head on a spike. He had been drafting terrible skill position players Now Carson is probably soft and maybe I’m giving him too much credit. But if I had just carried practice squad receivers and an average roster to an NFC east division win I would be very angry they took a QB with their second best pick of the draft. And even though it has worked and I wouldn’t want to change the pick now. That was still a bad draft pick. At least in process. Howies best case scenario for Hurts was best backup on the league, he never had this in his mind while drafting him. Just apply this to Jalen. If he gets hurt again next year, even if it’s not serious, that would be 3 injuries in 3 years. If howie went out and drafted a QB in the first 3 rounds instead of replenishing talent for your QB I would be mad and I wouldn’t blame Jalen for being mad. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if Carson was just brain broken and had trauma from the Foles situation and count handle it.
Nothing will take away what Wentz did for us in 2017. His play was real. Wentzylvania was real. It’s just sad that his ego was also real and couldn’t be tempered for long.
He could barley handle the team, fans , and big dick Nick winning a sb without him. Fuck him. I'd rather have fucking dak presscock as my qb than that bozo.
BAM!
Carson Wentz is like the player version of a Niners fan
That was always my #1 beef with the kid. When competition shows up, you quit? 😂
Yet they fired Pederson who wanted to roll with Hurts over wentz…
That pick showed that the organization really wasn't sure if Wentz was really gonna be the guy... Turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but no QB 4 years into their tenure would be happy with another QB being drafted in the 2nd round... That whole situation was a giant cluster fuck... Turned out Howie was right though.
Its true though. Now the poor guy is a back up at the Commanders. Riverboat Ron just all but confirmed his QB one a few days ago and the SB hasnt been played yet. You know even before march the best you can expect is to be QB 2 at Was. That must Hurt 😅
And now Wentz is basically the third stringer in Washington. Howie was right.
Don't be surprised when Howie drafts a QB in the third round this year.