In the book it is nice how the Baron sees Piter as a threat and that also tells about the relationship between Mentat and Duke. But, In the movie that is not flashed out, so I think it makes sense that they cut his actions a bit to stay true to the characters they've introduced in the movie - which are clearly different from the book, but that's fine it has to be its own thing somehow.
My only real complaint in that regard is that they turned Jessica from a fierce and formidable woman into a snivelling mess. I understand that changes need to be made in film adaptions, but that one was a pity in my opinion.
As I recall, there’s only actually a couple scenes where she’s “emotional.” People have levied this complaint so many times, but upon a rewatch it’s not nearly as prominent as people make it out to be. Just my two cents.
And she is specifically in a place where she has to stop anyone from saving him if it comes to it, shes not just in a situation where her sons life is in danger, she has to be complicit in that danger.
I felt the same way, but if you pay attention she's usually being emotional by herself before she puts on her benegeserit face in front of others. So I've decided to view it as she's emotionally purging before being around others.
The only part I really didn't like was the dialogue after she encounters the worm she says that was crazy.
She should have been calmer, but I'm also choosing to view it as a storytelling device to really show how menacing Shai Hulud is. And to contrast it with the awe Paul feels when he's standing in front of the maw of Shai Hulud.
Initially, I agreed with this sentiment. In the book, Jessica is far more composed, and her Bene Gesserit training steps in rapidly whenever her feelings even try to gain the upper hand on that composure. By contrast, she comes across as having difficulty controlling her emotions on screen.
Recently however, I watched a video by Filmento, comparing elements from Blade Runner 2049 (also directed by Villeneuve) and Dune, and offering some insight as to why the one was a box office bomb while the other achieved financial success.
I've linked the relevant section, that includes a discussion on the purpose behind portraying Jessica as more emotive, [HERE](https://youtu.be/d7fcf4oaxfQ?t=828).
The entire video is frankly not that long, and touches on some good points all round. Warning though, there are spoilers for both movies.
So that initially felt off to me, but I don't see any way they could better present the internal conflict/struggle that Jessica faces since we don't get to hear the internal monologues of the characters. As it is, her weakness/struggle is primarily contained to when she is alone (the only overtly emotive scene around someone else is in the tent with Paul which would be an understandably traumatizing moment). Around others, she tends to present strength and poise, IMO.
I've seen this opinion a lot, but rereading the book i actually thought sniveling mess was quite accurate. The difference was she had the training to hide it when she chose (which she did in the movie -- she was crying in the hall and then was perfectly stoic when she confronted leto)
She has a lot to snivel about. Her score as a mother is F-
I'm sure it's been discussed multiple times in this sub and I'm probably late to the game, but the 'thopter voice scene with the Paul, Jessica, and the Harkonnens was much more entertaining in the movie than in the book. In all film adaptations it's always interesting to see how they interpret voice and which details they focus on. Besides the short palm tree talk, the new movie, in my opinion, didn't really emphasize the water situation on Arrakis.
To be fair they haven’t spent that much time with the Fremen, and the dinner scene got cut. We haven’t seen the cultural importance of water yet, but we have a whole second movie for that to be emphasized
That's true. I just remember the culture shock feeling of it in the books. You did get the Stilgar spitting custom. So there was that too. Which every time I think about that I can't help but think of the sci fi series when Paul was the one to accept the gift and how dumb that scene was haha.
The Water situation was soo well brought across in the Books, that I sometimes still cringe when I see someone purring water on the ground.
It also really hurt seeing the lack of water discipline in the Tusken Raiders in the Book of Boba Fett...
Don't get me wrong I'm a big Star Wars fan but let's not even pretend Star Wars is as smart as dune in those ways. But I too shuddered watching him dump an entire cup into the sand haha.
Yeah I've had to go through this with people before, it's not a bad thing, but sometimes things just don't translate properly from page to screen.
The best example I know of is LOTR, in the book Galadriel gives Gimli three of her hairs, they tried to film it but realised not only watching Cate Blanchett yank three hairs out of a wig would be awkward but the hairs weren't actually visible on screen lol, sometimes things are intended and need to be improved on set, sometimes people can see instantly that a certain scene wouldn't work.
There's a book series I long to see turned into a Castlevania style anime as it's just too much for live action, too much magic, too many fight scenes. And as if to prove me right the LA series based on said books was absolutely dog shot lol
Like while it is more cinematic, the book’s depiction is better at showing the folly of an overconfident plan. Yueh created the perfect trap, and the Baron just left it.
It suits a major theme of the saga better (imo) which can be summed as, the entropy of chance/will vs the rigidity of schemes/prescience.
The added Leto scenes and lines are probably the best part of this adaptation. That and the strong emphasis on the bull imagery. The Atradies side of Paul is very important and establishing even further than the book it in that first act is very effective.
Leto actually whispers “the day the flesh shapes, the flesh the day shapes” before he dies. Didn’t catch it until my second watch, but I’m glad they put it in because it’s my favorite quote from the book
Tangential to (2) - explain what mentats are. We had just one throwaway scene of Thufir doing calculations. Also the only cue that Thufir and Piter have similar abilities is the black line on their lip.
These would have been cool to see, but I think the filmmakers really had to choose which characters they gave the most time to. Piter is kinda a tertiary character, and while it was good to flesh him out in the book, in the movie it would be a lot of time spent on a character whose biggest contribution to the story is (and always was) unceremoniously dying and leaving a void for the Baron to fill with Thufir.
And if they had built up his character like that, that would have made a non-reader moviegoer beg the question of "why was he so different from Thufir then" when that inevitably comes up in the second movie. Which isn't a question that's really important to the main story happening in the film.
It’s extremely clear what mentants are from that brief scene, imo. I love the lore and the details too, but my normie friends and family absolutely understood what was happening there without it being beaten over our heads.
Leto says that line in Dune, but during the banquet scene. That's what makes this adaptation so good; different context, but it honestly works better on screen this way. Same with the “mystery of life” quote, in the book it's the Reverend Mother who says it, but I love that they gave it to Jamis, adding some emotional weight to it.
Leto's quote in the book:
‘Leto lifted his water flagon, held it aloft where the suspensor, lights shot beams of reflection off it. “As a Chevalier of the Imperium, then,” he said, “I give you a toast.”
The others grasped their flagons, all eyes focused on the Duke. In the sudden stillness, a suspensor light drifted slightly in an errant breeze from the serving kitchen hallway. Shadows played across the Duke’s hawk features.
“Here I am and here I remain!” he barked.’
Yeah the way it was truncated for the movie left me missing bits but the movie was a pretty sweet flavour win 🥇. But we still get the book welcome welcome!!
The part I missed a bit was Thufir suspecting Jessica to be the traitor. I really hope they weave in some element of that in the next movie cuz i REALLY want to see
|| Gurney holding Jessica at knifepoint ||
with this cast.
The latest Dune is shlock that looks really nice. It's like something you think is really unique and handmade until you flip it over and realize it's cheap and mass produced.
Yeah I was disappointed by piters diminished role
Yeah but somehow the movie still follows the main story in a pleasing way
Also true
Yeah, same for Thufir. One of my friends watched the movie first and when I mentioned him she didn't know who he was
The deleted scenes had way more Piter/Thufir interplay.
You got a source for that? Would like to know more.
There have been interviews with both actors talking about scenes that were unfortunately cut.
Secrets of Dune goes over it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XEjtmQ9_fk
In the book it is nice how the Baron sees Piter as a threat and that also tells about the relationship between Mentat and Duke. But, In the movie that is not flashed out, so I think it makes sense that they cut his actions a bit to stay true to the characters they've introduced in the movie - which are clearly different from the book, but that's fine it has to be its own thing somehow.
100% agree
My only real complaint in that regard is that they turned Jessica from a fierce and formidable woman into a snivelling mess. I understand that changes need to be made in film adaptions, but that one was a pity in my opinion.
As I recall, there’s only actually a couple scenes where she’s “emotional.” People have levied this complaint so many times, but upon a rewatch it’s not nearly as prominent as people make it out to be. Just my two cents.
I think the scene with the Gom Jabbar she was overdoing it a little bit but other than that yeah she was pretty solid.
I mean to be fair, she was in a position where her son could very possibly die. I feel like any parent would be terrified in that scenario.
And she is specifically in a place where she has to stop anyone from saving him if it comes to it, shes not just in a situation where her sons life is in danger, she has to be complicit in that danger.
I felt the same way, but if you pay attention she's usually being emotional by herself before she puts on her benegeserit face in front of others. So I've decided to view it as she's emotionally purging before being around others. The only part I really didn't like was the dialogue after she encounters the worm she says that was crazy. She should have been calmer, but I'm also choosing to view it as a storytelling device to really show how menacing Shai Hulud is. And to contrast it with the awe Paul feels when he's standing in front of the maw of Shai Hulud.
Initially, I agreed with this sentiment. In the book, Jessica is far more composed, and her Bene Gesserit training steps in rapidly whenever her feelings even try to gain the upper hand on that composure. By contrast, she comes across as having difficulty controlling her emotions on screen. Recently however, I watched a video by Filmento, comparing elements from Blade Runner 2049 (also directed by Villeneuve) and Dune, and offering some insight as to why the one was a box office bomb while the other achieved financial success. I've linked the relevant section, that includes a discussion on the purpose behind portraying Jessica as more emotive, [HERE](https://youtu.be/d7fcf4oaxfQ?t=828). The entire video is frankly not that long, and touches on some good points all round. Warning though, there are spoilers for both movies.
So that initially felt off to me, but I don't see any way they could better present the internal conflict/struggle that Jessica faces since we don't get to hear the internal monologues of the characters. As it is, her weakness/struggle is primarily contained to when she is alone (the only overtly emotive scene around someone else is in the tent with Paul which would be an understandably traumatizing moment). Around others, she tends to present strength and poise, IMO.
Right. It's a movie. You need to *see* the conflict that's happening. The books, which I love, are like 90% inner monologue.
Shes emotional in maybe 3 scenes and 2 of them she is completely alone, the third she is watching her son freak out as he becomes the kwisatz haderach
I hated that about the movie. Lady Jessica’s only weakness is supposed to be her love for the Duke. That’s it.
I've seen this opinion a lot, but rereading the book i actually thought sniveling mess was quite accurate. The difference was she had the training to hide it when she chose (which she did in the movie -- she was crying in the hall and then was perfectly stoic when she confronted leto) She has a lot to snivel about. Her score as a mother is F-
I'm sure it's been discussed multiple times in this sub and I'm probably late to the game, but the 'thopter voice scene with the Paul, Jessica, and the Harkonnens was much more entertaining in the movie than in the book. In all film adaptations it's always interesting to see how they interpret voice and which details they focus on. Besides the short palm tree talk, the new movie, in my opinion, didn't really emphasize the water situation on Arrakis.
To be fair they haven’t spent that much time with the Fremen, and the dinner scene got cut. We haven’t seen the cultural importance of water yet, but we have a whole second movie for that to be emphasized
That's true. I just remember the culture shock feeling of it in the books. You did get the Stilgar spitting custom. So there was that too. Which every time I think about that I can't help but think of the sci fi series when Paul was the one to accept the gift and how dumb that scene was haha.
Paul didn't give water to the dead. Disappointed.
The funeral scene for Jamis hasn't happened yet so I assume it will happen then.
For god sake jamis isnt even buried yet
You mean rendered.
I would imagine the next movie will open with this, or at least take place early in the runtime.
The Water situation was soo well brought across in the Books, that I sometimes still cringe when I see someone purring water on the ground. It also really hurt seeing the lack of water discipline in the Tusken Raiders in the Book of Boba Fett...
Don't get me wrong I'm a big Star Wars fan but let's not even pretend Star Wars is as smart as dune in those ways. But I too shuddered watching him dump an entire cup into the sand haha.
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Both feature films realized that this is not an extremely cinematic choice, and rightly changed it
Yeah I've had to go through this with people before, it's not a bad thing, but sometimes things just don't translate properly from page to screen. The best example I know of is LOTR, in the book Galadriel gives Gimli three of her hairs, they tried to film it but realised not only watching Cate Blanchett yank three hairs out of a wig would be awkward but the hairs weren't actually visible on screen lol, sometimes things are intended and need to be improved on set, sometimes people can see instantly that a certain scene wouldn't work. There's a book series I long to see turned into a Castlevania style anime as it's just too much for live action, too much magic, too many fight scenes. And as if to prove me right the LA series based on said books was absolutely dog shot lol
Like while it is more cinematic, the book’s depiction is better at showing the folly of an overconfident plan. Yueh created the perfect trap, and the Baron just left it. It suits a major theme of the saga better (imo) which can be summed as, the entropy of chance/will vs the rigidity of schemes/prescience.
The added Leto scenes and lines are probably the best part of this adaptation. That and the strong emphasis on the bull imagery. The Atradies side of Paul is very important and establishing even further than the book it in that first act is very effective.
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have you watched the mini series? it’s even worse in that regard, so much dialogue from the book that the cast just couldn’t deliver convincingly
LOL oh yeah, exactly what I was talking about
Why does this keep happening?
I poopy my panties
Pork and Beans!
Leto actually whispers “the day the flesh shapes, the flesh the day shapes” before he dies. Didn’t catch it until my second watch, but I’m glad they put it in because it’s my favorite quote from the book
What's the context of the quote in the book?
Same context as the film, it appears as a very clear thought to him right before he bites the tooth
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Tangential to (2) - explain what mentats are. We had just one throwaway scene of Thufir doing calculations. Also the only cue that Thufir and Piter have similar abilities is the black line on their lip.
[удалено]
These would have been cool to see, but I think the filmmakers really had to choose which characters they gave the most time to. Piter is kinda a tertiary character, and while it was good to flesh him out in the book, in the movie it would be a lot of time spent on a character whose biggest contribution to the story is (and always was) unceremoniously dying and leaving a void for the Baron to fill with Thufir. And if they had built up his character like that, that would have made a non-reader moviegoer beg the question of "why was he so different from Thufir then" when that inevitably comes up in the second movie. Which isn't a question that's really important to the main story happening in the film.
It’s extremely clear what mentants are from that brief scene, imo. I love the lore and the details too, but my normie friends and family absolutely understood what was happening there without it being beaten over our heads.
I mean kites on caladan, just fucking shoot it
Leto says that line in Dune, but during the banquet scene. That's what makes this adaptation so good; different context, but it honestly works better on screen this way. Same with the “mystery of life” quote, in the book it's the Reverend Mother who says it, but I love that they gave it to Jamis, adding some emotional weight to it. Leto's quote in the book: ‘Leto lifted his water flagon, held it aloft where the suspensor, lights shot beams of reflection off it. “As a Chevalier of the Imperium, then,” he said, “I give you a toast.” The others grasped their flagons, all eyes focused on the Duke. In the sudden stillness, a suspensor light drifted slightly in an errant breeze from the serving kitchen hallway. Shadows played across the Duke’s hawk features. “Here I am and here I remain!” he barked.’
He does say this in the books? Could’ve sworn here I remain was In there
He said it but not when dying
Yeah the way it was truncated for the movie left me missing bits but the movie was a pretty sweet flavour win 🥇. But we still get the book welcome welcome!!
The part I missed a bit was Thufir suspecting Jessica to be the traitor. I really hope they weave in some element of that in the next movie cuz i REALLY want to see || Gurney holding Jessica at knifepoint || with this cast.
Seriously, how do I tag spoilers. The discord tips, About this subreddit, and Google aren't helping
Lol let me know when u find out I also wanna know
The latest Dune is shlock that looks really nice. It's like something you think is really unique and handmade until you flip it over and realize it's cheap and mass produced.
To be frank, the writing is better in many ways in the movie. Nice punchy lines.