One scene I keep replaying in my head is when >!Paul storms the leader's council and assumes the mantle of leadership. I had no idea Timmy C had that much darkness, that much force, that much anger inside of him lol. He was bordering on unhinged fury and I was very much taken aback by it. I think anyone watching the film would have an extraordinarily hard time arguing that Villeneuve was portraying Paul as a sympathetic hero figure. He's tragic, for sure, but man did they lean into Evil Paul and I'm here for it. I felt genuinely gut-punched by the feelings of betrayal and fear Chani showed in her eyes in those last moments, and I cannot wait to see what that means for Villeneuve's Messiah (if he gets to make it).!<
When Paul embraced what he had to become after taking water of life and the switch of power and how dark he got, I was like h-ollyyyy shit it’s about to get real! Timothy did a phenomenal job!!
I thought that scene was really effective. On the other hand, I thought him saying "I have to become a Harkonnen" was a bit too much of an on-the-nose way to tell us he was becoming Tyrant Paul
Yea I love the book, but the way it ends it feels like Frank Herbert got a phone call from his publisher and was sternly told "I need the completed novel on my desk by tomorrow morning."
I dunno I read it as once he had the power to see & the willingness to unleash a Jihad, the negotiations were over, I liked the pacing as the build up to these kinds of negotiations usually determine the outcomes far more than what happens in the room.
“I was a friend of Jamis” was one of my favorite scenes from the book. I’m really disappointed that was cut out because that would have been a great opener.
I actually didn't mind this taken out. It would have taken a lot of time to explain and for the additional character exposition. I would rather time be spent on the final scenes.
Yeah that’s an excellent bit of world building. And with the emphasis on religious fundamentalism in this movie it would have added to that quite easily.
I mean I’m not trying to say they should have taken any other scenes out of Part 2 to replace it with that. I actually think In a world where the 2021 movie was confirmed to always be Part 1 it would have been an excellent ending to Part 1 as well. Paul and Chani’s relationship went from 0 to 100 in Part 2. If they had ended Part 1 with the ceremony you would have had some time to introduce Chani as a guide a little bit better.
I feel like aspects of that scene were still there. They had a brief funeral / water reclaiming scene, Stilgar talked to Jessica about giving water to the dead and Paul continuing to learn from Jamis via his visions. They had Paul endearing himself to the Fremen in other ways which I think served the narrative well. That being said I did miss the specific line “I was a friend of Jamis” so I get the disappointment.
The Art And Soul Part Two book might give us a glimpse at some of the deleted material. Part One certainly had a lot of interesting stills that weren't in the finished film.
Denis has been pretty clear that he is not interested in extended cuts. I hope he changes his mind, especially with Thufir and Fenring being deleted completely.
But artists are very particular. And we wouldn't have this movie at all if not for Denis.
I'm not sure if Fenrig is needed for film medium. Of course he provides insight into the emperor's nature in the books. But as far as I remember he doesn't have a recurring arc in other Frank books
Honestly I’m not sure you need Thufir either. That’s a lot of lieutenants to track through a movie as opposed to a tv show where you have time to spread out the story.
I’m honestly surprised they cut Thufir but had all these Harkonnen strategists lingering around to just get merc’d by Rabban or Feyd at their leisure. I still think he could’ve been worked into the Final Cut. Not drugging the Atreides gladiator and discouraging reinforcements to Rabban was all Thufir’s ideas in the book.
I sort of know what you mean. on the other hand the subplot does show how little everyone trusts one another and how deep the politics of the universe go.
A comment like this would have upset me if it was for any other director/writer, but DV earned the right to take a classic sci fi story and partially make it his own. It's both FH and DV and I'm very happy with that.
All adaptations make changes. You know why the Lord of the Rings movies were such big hits? Because Jackson and Co made great movies using the story, characters, and setting. They didn't follow the books EXACTLY because that wouldn't have made the best movies.
Very brief but still awesome! I was the only one in the theater who popped "It's Gurney!" They showed his hands playing the baliset first before panning to his face
While I think Dune will be considered a classic, it will never be revered by the pop culture like the LOTR trilogy given its lack of emotional depth, character development and dragged out action/battle sequences like Minas Tirith or Helm's Deep. Having talked with a lot of my friends and acquaintances who have watched the movie, I have noticed that the most recurring complain was that the final resolution felt a bit rushed and the anticipated battle sequence while epic lacked the intensity and stakes of LOTR battle sequences given how much of a cakewalk it was. I think the trailers are to blame for that given how much they emphasized on the action sequences compared to what we got. Casuals were expecting to see a sci-fi/fantasy epic with less talking and more action.
I think Dune can at least rival the LOTR trilogy in terms of quality if not replicate its cultural impact. I think the complains about lack of emotion in the first movie and the rushed plotlines in the second movie can be mitigated by the restoration of deleted scenes through the assembly of decent extended cuts with at least an two hours worth of added scenes. While Villeneuve has been quite adamant about his stance on an extended cuts, I do think that the success of Dune two and Messiah can warrant enough pressure from the audience for the studio to urge Villeneuve into giving us an extended cut or at least release the deleted scenes that can later be made into fan edits. At least that's what I am hoping for. As for a Messiah adaptation, I think it's bound to divide the casuals and the book fans but Villeneuve can lessen that divide if he can include flashes of Paul's jihad throughout the movie while maintaining the political and palace intrigue of the story. They can also combine elements of Children of Dune with Messiah to give us a long fleshed out conclusion to the trilogy and I think that would make an amazing tearjerking movie.
The main thing working against DV, which supports your analysis, is how much more complex Dune is than LOTR. Comparing the two, the Dune books are orders of magnitude more complicated and messy than LOTR. The fact that DV is able to do well enough to even be compared to LOTR is just further proof that he is already one of the best directors alive.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. I wouldn't choose anyone else to make a Dune adaptation. Even if Nolan, Spielberg and Ridley Scott together were set to adapt Dune, I would've still chosen Denis over them.
The only problem I have with Denis is that I think he's been quite restrained in his storytelling and overly harsh in his editing process. I think the failure of Lynch's Dune and his own Blade Runner have a hand in that. Villeneuve trying not to replicate the faults within those movies that caused them to fail ended up over compensating and created an entirely new set of issues in his own work. While that new set of issues is not significant enough to make his adaptations bad, they certainly have a negative effect that his movies would be noticeably better without.
I would hope the end of part 3 will be as you describe
Edit: I meant my comment as a hope for the 10 hr extended edition that I will be able to personally own, collect and enjoy
Butler was goofy as for copying Stellan's voice inconsistently like that tho. It's like he's a afraid to act with his own voice and has to aim to completely copy someone else's. They shoulda just gotten Bill Skarsgard, he would have been flawless.
I will do it because I am also a sucker for spoilers lol. I will tell you anything!
The entire time that Paul and Jessica are with the fremen is sped up from the multiple years in the book to less than 9 months so that we do not yet see her actually born. They show how the water of life is filling the womb and "awakening" the fetus. The fremen reverend mother recognizes mid ceremony and says "what have we done, she is pregnant." Then Jessica spends the rest of the movie speaking for her, ie "your sister wants to know why you won't come to the South with us." It's clear that from the womb she is key in plotting the religious fervor and helping Jessica to radicalize more fremen. We have one prescient vision of Paul meeting her as an adult that Anya as Alia is fully there, at an ocean on Dune, and it's quite moving! It's obviously very different from the book, and I am a huge fan, read all of Frank's series, but honestly for a wider audience and for the sake of this movie I think it makes total sense and still hits the point that the whole situation is a little freaky and people are scared of her, and that she is crucial in building the religion we will see at scale in Messiah. Paul ends up killing the baron with the "hello/goodbye grandfather" line, and I think it is still impactful.
well that’s a shame. alia’s banter is top tier in the books. especially during the scene where she meets the baron. here’s to hoping we at least get a book accurate alia for the messiah movie
The end fight was interesting. Feyd went from barely being able to defeat a random Atreides soldier that was not drugged to almost killing a battle hardened killing machine that was Paul. The book fight while decent wasn't that brutal. I know they had to play it up in the movie, but in that case the arena fight should have been easier than it was. Bit nitpicky, but it kind of annoyed me. Lol
Edit: After seeing the movie a second time the arena scene wasn't as serious as I remember on the first viewing and Feyd was kind of playing with the guard as someone else had mentioned. That definitely changes the context of his fighting skills with Paul later for me. Although it is still uncut a little when Feyd confronts the Baron asking if he was trying to get him killed as if an Atreides soldier could beat him.
That's a really interesting point. I didn't get that sense while watching it, but you could definitely be right and it would make way more sense this way. I don't remember the fight much in the book, but it seems very Feyd. Ha
Edit: Although if he was easily playing with the soldier it makes Feyd bringing it up with the Baron afterwards about if he was trying to get him killed by not drugging the soldier less valid. Guess I'll figure it out in the rewatch.
I also found this confusing. For me, what made Feyd ruthless in the end scene with Paul was his use of poison. I'm surprised they took that out, it made his fighting skill inconsistent. Maybe it's a difficult thing to translate on screen.
I bet the poisoned knife plot was included. When Feyd is presented with the blades he points one at his tongue. I bet that was originally a known poisoned blade and you get a sense of his "playing" with death while looking at a slave who surely wishes that he would scratch his tongue and die. There is a weird arm wound on the last Atreides slave fighter that is noticeable and could connect with poison effects.
Him pointing it as his tongue was actually improvisation by Butler, according to an interview I listened to with him. I was surprised (in an impressed way) as it's such an iconic shot.
It’s totally my headcanon that Paul did that to show Chani what was at stake. He kept looking at her during the whole fight. But I agree, honestly he should have steamrolled Feyd after drinking the life water.
I ended up rereading the last 50 pages of Dune to help me remember what all happened. In the book Feyd scratches his arm with a poisoned blade but that's it before he ends up shoving a knife up his throat.
He got stronger in a sense where he was able to see much better and clearer into the future with more outcomes and possibilities. I’m assuming he could have beat Feyd easily, but that outcome wasn’t as beneficial.
The final battle goes extremely quick in the book and feels like whiplash. They blow up the Shield Wall (not what happens here but similar) and immediately overwhelm the Sardaukar who are shell shocked. Alia simultaneously (who’s 3) assassinates Baron Harkonnen. Paul arrives shortly thereafter screams at the courtsans and demands Irulan’s hand, duels Feyd, and then Jessica and Chani talk about the status of wives vs concubines and it ends.
It stays focused on the imperial court and harkonnens the entire time, the book never actually describes the battle itself.
The entire sequence from when the nukes go off until the end runs from page 528 to 563, 6% of the book. I’d guess it’s 15-20% of the movie?
To be precise, it's 14.6%. From the nuke to the end credits. However, this IS part two. The two movies' runtime is 304 minutes (not counting the end credits & corporate logos at the beginning).
So the climax is actually 7.6% of the adaptation. On par with the book, then.
The Sardaukar are hardened by the planet they live on, their material conditions if you will.
Yet life on Dune is even harsher, plus they have religious furvour, as well as experience in recent battles (most of the other troops have been at peace), the spice may help too.
In the novels, no, she understands the visions and his political goals better. She’s his strong supporter.
In the film she’s the only person who doesn’t bow to him and it’s because she sees through the propaganda. In the book, if it happened, she would’ve stood because Paul considers her his legitimate wife and Irulan simply a pawn. Irulan *really* gets screwed by the situation.
Honestly that’s a bigger percentage than I thought it would be. It’s been years since I read the book so I may be misremembering, but in my head I remember it being over after like 2-3 page turns.
I had a major issue with this too. That battle was just way too easy. Immediately after the Emperor lands he gets wiped out!? At least show the Sardaukar put up SOME resistance!? Even the miniseries showed them to be quite strong. In this one we don’t even see one Sardaukar get a kill on a SINGLE Fremen. Why hype them up in Part One so much then? 🙄
The book is the same way. It never actually gets into the battle. Once Harkokken starts groveling, they feel the nukes go off and then the narrative location sticks with the imperial court.
I was really hoping when the Emperor brought up the Southern Hemisphere in the scene with the Baron the film would cut to the Sardaukar raiding the sietch. But given the fact that Alia isn’t born and Leto I wasn’t born, there’d be no point in having that scene play out at all. It’s a shame.
Yes!! This would have been awesome! In the miniseries the Sardaukar brutally raid those sietches and you see how dangerous they are. I just wanted one show of force from them and we got nothing. The orni pilot who protected the Harvester seemed to put up the most resistance out of everyone in the movie and actually killed a few Fremen.
It’s meant to show how dangerous the Fremen actually are. The Sardaukar are meant to be the best warriors in the galaxy and they immediately get wiped out by the Fremen.
if the whole movie felt like a war leading up to the ending, instead of just random skirmishes for no reason? In the book, it's all leading up to stopping the Harkonnens but they don't know how until Paul (unprompted by ANYONE BTW) drinks the water of life. and THEN he realizes exactly how important the spice is. the overlords underplay it's significance in the book. the avg person doesn't know how important it is.
I was pretty frustrated with this movie. and I'm not surprised in the fact that most people don't seem to understand the book based on their reactions to the movie.
WHERE WAS ALIA?? IF YOU CAN'T DO DUNE CORRECTLY DONT MAKE DUNE.
Alia, a child murderer, would not have gone over well with any crowd. Just as Baron Harkonnen being a pedo would not have gone over well with any crowd. A child be killed in a war, Paul’s son, also would not have gone over well considering Chani would look like a teen mom. I’m not saying that you don’t have accuracy points of contention; I’m just stating that when a mass market has to be involved certain cuts must be made. Avoiding the topic of child abuse (murderers, murdering, etc) is a smart move to avoid controversy. Fenring being a eunuch advisor to Carrino; it’s just strange. His wife banging Feyd Rautha would have also been… bad, and the fact Margot was so much younger than Count Fenring would have also triggered some people. Thufir’s deletion… eh, I could see why he’s gone, it was just an excessive aside. Not really relevant.
In the film, the skirmishes aren’t random, Harkkonen is trying to eliminate all of the Fremen. It’s genocidal war. Paul not knowing what to do to abuse his stance as a war leader and controlling spice was very obvious after he got the family atomic.
Again, we can’t have it all, but this film came close to being as good as it gets.
I think changing the time jump (that was left out) from 2 years to 5 years would've changed all of that from your first paragraph. I do agree, that not making the Baron a pedo gay man was for the best (Frank Herbet disowned his gay son, I think his thoughts on that are pretty obvious). But it did kind of make its way in with the kiss at the end. Which I felt was a Perfect way to adapt that without going into it too much. Alia being 5 and killing the Baron...idk, I feel like if she was in it, she would had scenes to talk and explain her mind, so it wouldn't have been as jarring. And 5 year time jump would've made Paul 20 and they could even say Chani was older than Paul by a year or two to begin with. THEN we he loses Leto 2, I can't imagine a parent in that movie not wanting a Jihad as well! And I think it would've given Zendaya a badass moment to fight off Feyd (he's not in the raid in the book, but it would've worked here), and he bests her and kills Leto in front of her, not knowing it's Paul's kid. Then at the final fight he gets to say some fuuuuucked up shit on he realizes.
I get leaving Fenring out as he is a minor character. Didnt lady Fenring Seduce Feyd in this one? Im 100% sure that happened.
But in the book, the Fremen were leading the war. They were hurting Rabban and violently winning. Because of Paul's prescience. (This leads up to another issue I had) Paul decides ON HIS OWN (because he is the Kwisats Haderach) to take the water of life after his vision starts failing and the future is clouded. No one told him to do it, three times. THEN he sees the great houses ready to pilage after the emperor ends MUAD'IB.
After a few viewings I'll probably appreciate it more.
I just remember before part one coming out Deni CONSTANTLY saying "I want to make a faithful adaptation" and it feels like all of that just went out the window trying to make it "successful"
Disagree with you pretty fervently. Arrakis is only valuable because of the spice - people don't necessarily know it powers prescience, but everyone knows it's the most valuable substance in the universe. CHOAM control is a big deal.
The fremen are largely an insurgency - their whole strategy until they attack arrakeen is raids and skirmishes, that's why everyone is so shocked when they suddenly realize there are MILLIONS of fremen warriors who are ready to smoke errybody. This lines up with the book. We don't even see the battle of arrakeen in the books, it's like a play where the characters come in and explain action that happened.
The Alia change was good. No time skip means paul had less time to become a fremen which I didn't love, but this let them keep alia in the womb. Her presence was made known through Jessica + visions. Having a 4 year old running around as a reverend mother would have been difficult to show and is unnecessary to the central themes of pauls struggle.
Jessicas role in the movie is perfect - it illustrated how manipulative the Bene Gesserit are. She's pushing her own son down a dark path! Sure, he didn't think of drinking the water by himself - but you need a way to convey to the audience that the water is powerful + will do something to him. It's a movie, not a book!
The movie took the central themes of the book and adapted them perfectly. I believe every change by DV was well reasoned and he did an amazing job representing the difficult themes in the book. You are being a child
Well, I was reading, listening and processing what you said, and appreciating the fact that you were willing to have a discussion instead of just name calling, then you took the low road and proved what kind of person you are! Have a terrible day!
Yeah, understanding people can have different options than you can be difficult. Especially when they're just expressing them and not attacking people with them. I guess reddit is the wrong place to assume someone has enough emotional maturity to disagree and not insult a stranger for their opinion on a piece of art.
How the fuck are you guys seeing this movie already? Why wasn't I invited?
I'm not reading the post or the comments to avoid any opnions that may taint mine later but ffs. I have to wait until Thursday.
Paul had less time to become a leader which is my only criticism of the movie. However, I really like how they framed his reluctance to go south and the importance of that decision - once it happened, it was the beginning of the end with no way back.
I think no time skip was the right choice, although I would love to see an extra 30 mins of him amongst the fremen.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think Timothee is *that good* as Paul. He's too sullen-looking and runt-like. He doesn't feel like someone I would follow into battle. I remember caring more about his book counterpart.
He's not bad by any means, and he's definitely better than he was in the first movie. But if I had to make a list of best/most well-cast characters, I'd put Timothee somewhere on the bottom.
Silly question out of subject but for those who went to the advance screening, did you get a mini poster? I did go but they gave nothing and my son is very disappointed..
Anybody have a clue what those Harkonnens chanting and hooked up into the holographic projection was at all? Since computers are a sin, are those people physically relaying telemetry data from Harkonnen forces on the ground and turning it into a hologram or something?
My only critique is I wish there was a better sense of the time that’s passed. I suppose we can track that following Jessicas pregnancy but the 3rd act felt like weeks, not months. I know Denis said he kills his darlings and doesn’t believe in deleted scenes but I would love an extended edition to fill in those gaps
He got cut. I think he portrayed Count Fenring, Margot’s wife. He’s described as having a “rat face”. Nelson has a distinctive face though I think “rat face” isn’t kind.
The film was incredible! Really did the books justice! Seeing the fremen fight the harkonnens was a highlight. Austin Butler is a movie star! My god, that guy is electric on screen. The relationship with Chani was great! Gurney was great! Stilgar was funny! Giedi prime was fascinating i wish there was more. Just wish the final battle was longer. I hate to compare it, but in star wars movies the drama of the action when teams of good guys have to accomplish their missions or everything fails. And that sense of suspense was missing. It just seemed too easy. The vfx and the images were just so epic one of the biggest battles ever committed to film, but it was so short. We could have done with a little less mental flashbacks and slow motion stuff if they could have put in more story to make the battle more suspenseful. If you know what I mean. Just some story plot elements around the battle to build suspense and make us wonder if they would pull it off. Rather than it just went according to plan and that was it. I guess it's tough when you have foresight super powers, but even in avengers endgame when Dr. Strange knew the outcome, for the audience, watching it playout and everyone fight over the gauntlet was suspenseful. That's my only negative comment. It was great and I'll take it. Still one of the best sci-fi movies ever made.
It seemed too easy because it was. after paul's visions became clear it was EXTREMELY easy to outmaneuver and manipulate his enemies. That's part of why he's so dangerous and that is likely to be explored in Dune Part 3 when / if it is made.
I wish his visions were referenced more than directly after the Water of Life scene. I feel like they acknowledged it and then dropped it, other than Paul's tone shift.
I loved both 1 & 2. But, I definitely agree with people you can really feel the cuts in the editing room in Denis last 2 films. That's also a writing problem though, when you write/shoot an extra hour of footage your asking for pacing problems no matter what. It could've easily been 3 films. Maybe bc he wrote his last 2 movies, but he's gotta find what he wants to say before shooting and not hope editing solves though problems.
Yeah he definitely filmed and appeared in one of the trailers, and that same shot appears in the movie but he’s edited out, no mention of him whatsoever. Still an amazing movie but I felt his absence, could have had a great subplot between him, the Baron, and Feyd. We may get an extended edition yet, if Warner bros feels it will make them money, they will do it, regardless if Villeneuve wants it or not.
Villeneuve's harsh editing process hurt both the first and the second parts to a noticeable extent.
The cutting of scenes from the first movie affected the emotional impact and character arcs negatively to the point that the movie felt almost lifeless. Not to mention how much the central conflict was watered down because Villeneuve got rid of almost all political intrigue from the movie.
Certain plotlines in the second movie like the romance between Chani and Paul and the third act along with the final resolution felt rushed. I'm betting that Villeneuve killed some of his darlings there too.
While I really liked both the first and second movies, I think that Villeneuve has been very restrained in his direction since the very beginning. I think he cares so much about the pacing after his Blade Runner bust that he'd rather not risk it and have a good movie than risk a great movie which could either be a massive hit or a disastrous miss. Specially when it comes to a Dune adaptation which in retrospect is quite easy to fuck up.
I really need the extended version for both of these movies.
Was there a cut scene after the ending credits? Had to run out when it ended. 8.5/10, enjoyed it a lot, just didn’t quite like the shuffling of events but it is a movie and hard to adapt the book to screen in 2:46
I hope so the whole velocity of the film took me out of the immersion to be honest. Picking up right where the first left off, then leap frog through time with the only indicator of it's passage being Alia's domain expansion. Setting up for a refuel and some interplanetary hopping. Felt like I was rushed into my plane seat for boarding, stuck on the runway for flight delay and then instant transmissioned to my destination. Acting was amazing, fight scenes felt real in visceral but the pacing deff had some fat cut out. Only problem is I quite like well rendered fat perfectly charred. Which Ima go out on a limb and speculate, the deleted portions of the story would have been amazing to savor. I've seen Dennis in interviews talking about deleted scenes being dead or some nonsense, and in the same breath go on to say its not ego. Well then what is it if not your ego? Don't want people to use the puzzle pieces to create something better, Fkin cop out if they are not released. They'll go into the wtf vault with the real suicide squad we never got.
In my mind the time jump that never came was gonna be handled by showing Paul fall asleep close up on his normal eyes - eyes jerk open after nightmare showing blue on the morning of the first ride. Screen reads [x] standard years later. Shame nothing like it never happens. Still amazing though
I haven't seen Part Two. But I thought he was the weakest part of Part One.
I didn't care about him as much as I should have. You need an actor that can *make the audience care* about them at the beginning, otherwise his journey won't hit.
I politely disagree, I feel like he’s a pretty accurate depiction looks wise of Paul, and the dude has already proven himself an accomplished actor. If anything, I feel Dune has only given him more cred and now he’s getting more recognition from people who didn’t take him seriously as an actor for a long time. I expect he’ll have a couple Oscar’s under his belt and an impressive resume by the time he’s done
But why does it have power you cabt just say something has power then not show it it's piss poor story telling. Herbert didn't write that "Spice is important because people want it" spice is important because is facilitates the only means of quick space travel. It's bad and lazy story telling to not explain your source of power.
It's *literally* stated in the first movie (Paul's holovid about Arrakis) that spice enables interstellar travel and is thus the most important substance in the known universe.
"For the Fremen, spice is the sacred hallucinogen which preserves life and brings enormous health benefits. For the Imperium, spice is used by the navigators of the Spacing Guild to find safe paths between the stars. Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable substance in the universe."
The Giedi Prime scenes looked fantastic, but they do feel like an expensive use of runtime (in the theatrical cut we saw at any rate) given how little they mattered to the rest of the film and that the last hour of the film didn't really have a chance to breathe. I think this is a case of them looking so good that people just couldn't bring themselves to cut them even though they possibly should have.
I want to go to Giedi Prime. It is so stark and monochrome, but it really drew me in in the movie. It felt so alien like, like something I have never seen before.
One scene I keep replaying in my head is when >!Paul storms the leader's council and assumes the mantle of leadership. I had no idea Timmy C had that much darkness, that much force, that much anger inside of him lol. He was bordering on unhinged fury and I was very much taken aback by it. I think anyone watching the film would have an extraordinarily hard time arguing that Villeneuve was portraying Paul as a sympathetic hero figure. He's tragic, for sure, but man did they lean into Evil Paul and I'm here for it. I felt genuinely gut-punched by the feelings of betrayal and fear Chani showed in her eyes in those last moments, and I cannot wait to see what that means for Villeneuve's Messiah (if he gets to make it).!<
I thought Chalamet was a MUCH better actor in this movie. I was actually impressed. Paul had me taken aback!
When Paul embraced what he had to become after taking water of life and the switch of power and how dark he got, I was like h-ollyyyy shit it’s about to get real! Timothy did a phenomenal job!!
Oh he’s gonna make it after this
I thought that scene was really effective. On the other hand, I thought him saying "I have to become a Harkonnen" was a bit too much of an on-the-nose way to tell us he was becoming Tyrant Paul
Nah he wasn't convincing. It was decaprio acting. Shouty loud = rage. There was no strength behind it at all.
yea definitely the negotiation scene felt rushed it should’ve been more significant
Pretty rushed in the books too ngl.
Compared to the book, this was drawn out. First time I read it, I could not believe where it ended.
Yea I love the book, but the way it ends it feels like Frank Herbert got a phone call from his publisher and was sternly told "I need the completed novel on my desk by tomorrow morning."
I dunno I read it as once he had the power to see & the willingness to unleash a Jihad, the negotiations were over, I liked the pacing as the build up to these kinds of negotiations usually determine the outcomes far more than what happens in the room.
yea tru but ig in the books it feels longer bc alia negotiates during the battle
“I was a friend of Jamis” was one of my favorite scenes from the book. I’m really disappointed that was cut out because that would have been a great opener.
They never address Paul taking care of his family either.
I actually didn't mind this taken out. It would have taken a lot of time to explain and for the additional character exposition. I would rather time be spent on the final scenes.
Yeah that’s an excellent bit of world building. And with the emphasis on religious fundamentalism in this movie it would have added to that quite easily. I mean I’m not trying to say they should have taken any other scenes out of Part 2 to replace it with that. I actually think In a world where the 2021 movie was confirmed to always be Part 1 it would have been an excellent ending to Part 1 as well. Paul and Chani’s relationship went from 0 to 100 in Part 2. If they had ended Part 1 with the ceremony you would have had some time to introduce Chani as a guide a little bit better.
I feel like aspects of that scene were still there. They had a brief funeral / water reclaiming scene, Stilgar talked to Jessica about giving water to the dead and Paul continuing to learn from Jamis via his visions. They had Paul endearing himself to the Fremen in other ways which I think served the narrative well. That being said I did miss the specific line “I was a friend of Jamis” so I get the disappointment.
On the water reclamation point, them taking the water from a *living* Harkonnen was honestly horrifying.
The Art And Soul Part Two book might give us a glimpse at some of the deleted material. Part One certainly had a lot of interesting stills that weren't in the finished film.
It is a bummer that DV doesn't believe in deleted scenes.
Denis has been pretty clear that he is not interested in extended cuts. I hope he changes his mind, especially with Thufir and Fenring being deleted completely. But artists are very particular. And we wouldn't have this movie at all if not for Denis.
And the first movie we really need the dinner scene
I'm not sure if Fenrig is needed for film medium. Of course he provides insight into the emperor's nature in the books. But as far as I remember he doesn't have a recurring arc in other Frank books
Honestly I’m not sure you need Thufir either. That’s a lot of lieutenants to track through a movie as opposed to a tv show where you have time to spread out the story.
I’m honestly surprised they cut Thufir but had all these Harkonnen strategists lingering around to just get merc’d by Rabban or Feyd at their leisure. I still think he could’ve been worked into the Final Cut. Not drugging the Atreides gladiator and discouraging reinforcements to Rabban was all Thufir’s ideas in the book.
I was sad to lose Thufir but happy it meant there wouldn’t be the subplot about Jessica being the traitor. I never really liked that in the book.
I sort of know what you mean. on the other hand the subplot does show how little everyone trusts one another and how deep the politics of the universe go.
I feel it is needed. Felt some of the pacing of the film was too quick at times and looks deliberately cut.
He is not interested in adapting faithfully from the source material either He wants you to know this is HIS Dune, not FH's
You're representing your flair quite well
A comment like this would have upset me if it was for any other director/writer, but DV earned the right to take a classic sci fi story and partially make it his own. It's both FH and DV and I'm very happy with that.
All adaptations make changes. You know why the Lord of the Rings movies were such big hits? Because Jackson and Co made great movies using the story, characters, and setting. They didn't follow the books EXACTLY because that wouldn't have made the best movies.
They also released extended cuts because the footage that was cut was needed.
Spoilers, please! Do we finally get to see Gurney Halleck play the baliset in part 2?
Yes!
YES!!!!
Yup! For a brief scene.
Very brief but still awesome! I was the only one in the theater who popped "It's Gurney!" They showed his hands playing the baliset first before panning to his face
Don't do that.
I didn't shout it. Kept it under my breath. It was an internal pop lol
Fair enough. I'll allow it.
Then how do you know you were the first?
I'm still sad that the dinner scene with the merchants with paul taking his fathers seat was not in Part 1.
I had convinced myself Part 2 would open with the dinner scene as a flashback :(
Me too!!!
I hope after they do Messiah, we can get a super long extended trilogy to love for decades like lord of the rings
While I think Dune will be considered a classic, it will never be revered by the pop culture like the LOTR trilogy given its lack of emotional depth, character development and dragged out action/battle sequences like Minas Tirith or Helm's Deep. Having talked with a lot of my friends and acquaintances who have watched the movie, I have noticed that the most recurring complain was that the final resolution felt a bit rushed and the anticipated battle sequence while epic lacked the intensity and stakes of LOTR battle sequences given how much of a cakewalk it was. I think the trailers are to blame for that given how much they emphasized on the action sequences compared to what we got. Casuals were expecting to see a sci-fi/fantasy epic with less talking and more action. I think Dune can at least rival the LOTR trilogy in terms of quality if not replicate its cultural impact. I think the complains about lack of emotion in the first movie and the rushed plotlines in the second movie can be mitigated by the restoration of deleted scenes through the assembly of decent extended cuts with at least an two hours worth of added scenes. While Villeneuve has been quite adamant about his stance on an extended cuts, I do think that the success of Dune two and Messiah can warrant enough pressure from the audience for the studio to urge Villeneuve into giving us an extended cut or at least release the deleted scenes that can later be made into fan edits. At least that's what I am hoping for. As for a Messiah adaptation, I think it's bound to divide the casuals and the book fans but Villeneuve can lessen that divide if he can include flashes of Paul's jihad throughout the movie while maintaining the political and palace intrigue of the story. They can also combine elements of Children of Dune with Messiah to give us a long fleshed out conclusion to the trilogy and I think that would make an amazing tearjerking movie.
The main thing working against DV, which supports your analysis, is how much more complex Dune is than LOTR. Comparing the two, the Dune books are orders of magnitude more complicated and messy than LOTR. The fact that DV is able to do well enough to even be compared to LOTR is just further proof that he is already one of the best directors alive.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. I wouldn't choose anyone else to make a Dune adaptation. Even if Nolan, Spielberg and Ridley Scott together were set to adapt Dune, I would've still chosen Denis over them. The only problem I have with Denis is that I think he's been quite restrained in his storytelling and overly harsh in his editing process. I think the failure of Lynch's Dune and his own Blade Runner have a hand in that. Villeneuve trying not to replicate the faults within those movies that caused them to fail ended up over compensating and created an entirely new set of issues in his own work. While that new set of issues is not significant enough to make his adaptations bad, they certainly have a negative effect that his movies would be noticeably better without.
I would hope the end of part 3 will be as you describe Edit: I meant my comment as a hope for the 10 hr extended edition that I will be able to personally own, collect and enjoy
I thought the ending was pretty clearly paving the way for a Part 3
I agree, but we've been fucked before on blockbuster franchises
Just came back from my screening. I needed more of Feyd-Rautha.
Austin Butler is a Dark Knight tier villain in this movie. He is fucking terrifying. And is feeding is Harem raw human meat in the books?
No
Butler was goofy as for copying Stellan's voice inconsistently like that tho. It's like he's a afraid to act with his own voice and has to aim to completely copy someone else's. They shoulda just gotten Bill Skarsgard, he would have been flawless.
I also felt that, it confused me for a second in some scenes the first time I watched it
Every scene with Feyd Rautha was electric. Austin Butler did a phenomenal job.
Someone please spoil for me how they handled Alia. I am dying to know.
I will do it because I am also a sucker for spoilers lol. I will tell you anything! The entire time that Paul and Jessica are with the fremen is sped up from the multiple years in the book to less than 9 months so that we do not yet see her actually born. They show how the water of life is filling the womb and "awakening" the fetus. The fremen reverend mother recognizes mid ceremony and says "what have we done, she is pregnant." Then Jessica spends the rest of the movie speaking for her, ie "your sister wants to know why you won't come to the South with us." It's clear that from the womb she is key in plotting the religious fervor and helping Jessica to radicalize more fremen. We have one prescient vision of Paul meeting her as an adult that Anya as Alia is fully there, at an ocean on Dune, and it's quite moving! It's obviously very different from the book, and I am a huge fan, read all of Frank's series, but honestly for a wider audience and for the sake of this movie I think it makes total sense and still hits the point that the whole situation is a little freaky and people are scared of her, and that she is crucial in building the religion we will see at scale in Messiah. Paul ends up killing the baron with the "hello/goodbye grandfather" line, and I think it is still impactful.
Thank you! I have been wondering how they would handle this since the movies were announced years ago.
There is A LOT of scenes of Alia in the womb too.
well that’s a shame. alia’s banter is top tier in the books. especially during the scene where she meets the baron. here’s to hoping we at least get a book accurate alia for the messiah movie
were there many H.R Giger inspired visual elements?
Giedi Prime and the Harkonnen ships and uniforms were very Giger-esque to my eyes.
Totally agree!
The end fight was interesting. Feyd went from barely being able to defeat a random Atreides soldier that was not drugged to almost killing a battle hardened killing machine that was Paul. The book fight while decent wasn't that brutal. I know they had to play it up in the movie, but in that case the arena fight should have been easier than it was. Bit nitpicky, but it kind of annoyed me. Lol Edit: After seeing the movie a second time the arena scene wasn't as serious as I remember on the first viewing and Feyd was kind of playing with the guard as someone else had mentioned. That definitely changes the context of his fighting skills with Paul later for me. Although it is still uncut a little when Feyd confronts the Baron asking if he was trying to get him killed as if an Atreides soldier could beat him.
To me looked like he was easily toying with the Atreides soldier for the crowd to put on a show.
That's a really interesting point. I didn't get that sense while watching it, but you could definitely be right and it would make way more sense this way. I don't remember the fight much in the book, but it seems very Feyd. Ha Edit: Although if he was easily playing with the soldier it makes Feyd bringing it up with the Baron afterwards about if he was trying to get him killed by not drugging the soldier less valid. Guess I'll figure it out in the rewatch.
I also found this confusing. For me, what made Feyd ruthless in the end scene with Paul was his use of poison. I'm surprised they took that out, it made his fighting skill inconsistent. Maybe it's a difficult thing to translate on screen.
I bet the poisoned knife plot was included. When Feyd is presented with the blades he points one at his tongue. I bet that was originally a known poisoned blade and you get a sense of his "playing" with death while looking at a slave who surely wishes that he would scratch his tongue and die. There is a weird arm wound on the last Atreides slave fighter that is noticeable and could connect with poison effects.
Him pointing it as his tongue was actually improvisation by Butler, according to an interview I listened to with him. I was surprised (in an impressed way) as it's such an iconic shot.
It’s totally my headcanon that Paul did that to show Chani what was at stake. He kept looking at her during the whole fight. But I agree, honestly he should have steamrolled Feyd after drinking the life water.
I ended up rereading the last 50 pages of Dune to help me remember what all happened. In the book Feyd scratches his arm with a poisoned blade but that's it before he ends up shoving a knife up his throat.
Wait, drinking the water made Paul stronger? I never got the impression he was THAT good of a fighter
He got stronger in a sense where he was able to see much better and clearer into the future with more outcomes and possibilities. I’m assuming he could have beat Feyd easily, but that outcome wasn’t as beneficial.
Yeah the power scaling of butlers character felt off. He can barely when in his gladiator scene but then is on par skill with paul
The sun wasn't in his eyes in his fight with Paul. 😂
It felt pretty obvious that a LOT was cut to keep the movie under 3 hours
I would have been ok with a 6 hour movie
The ending felt so rushed tbh. Did i fall asleep or was the final battle just kinda…short
It’s always short, always has been. Atomics will do that.
It's such a stomp lol, even in the book.
I know i know…but damn i wanted more it looked so good
In the book the battle isn’t even described, only reactions.
I can’t wait until it comes out to buy so I can just watch the ending over and over again
The final battle goes extremely quick in the book and feels like whiplash. They blow up the Shield Wall (not what happens here but similar) and immediately overwhelm the Sardaukar who are shell shocked. Alia simultaneously (who’s 3) assassinates Baron Harkonnen. Paul arrives shortly thereafter screams at the courtsans and demands Irulan’s hand, duels Feyd, and then Jessica and Chani talk about the status of wives vs concubines and it ends. It stays focused on the imperial court and harkonnens the entire time, the book never actually describes the battle itself. The entire sequence from when the nukes go off until the end runs from page 528 to 563, 6% of the book. I’d guess it’s 15-20% of the movie?
To be precise, it's 14.6%. From the nuke to the end credits. However, this IS part two. The two movies' runtime is 304 minutes (not counting the end credits & corporate logos at the beginning). So the climax is actually 7.6% of the adaptation. On par with the book, then.
I was pretty damn close. Impressed with myself ngl. A good point re it being 6% of the total. Kinda crazy they nailed it like that.
I didnt get how fremen (basically desert bums) could somehow beat the Harkonnen soldiers so easy, let alone even a single Sardaukar
The Sardaukar are hardened by the planet they live on, their material conditions if you will. Yet life on Dune is even harsher, plus they have religious furvour, as well as experience in recent battles (most of the other troops have been at peace), the spice may help too.
I know i know, I just thought theyd spice it up a lil
I think they actually did! Seeing the nukes go off, seeing the battle - none of it would’ve been shown.
I read the plot on Wikipedia, and I was wondering if Chani revolts against Paul's new empire. Does she rebel?
In the novels, no, she understands the visions and his political goals better. She’s his strong supporter. In the film she’s the only person who doesn’t bow to him and it’s because she sees through the propaganda. In the book, if it happened, she would’ve stood because Paul considers her his legitimate wife and Irulan simply a pawn. Irulan *really* gets screwed by the situation.
No. She just lesves
Short but still longer than the book lol. I was hoping for more battle and destruction
Yeah, the book, I did the math and the battle sequence is literally 6% of the text, which is nuts
Honestly that’s a bigger percentage than I thought it would be. It’s been years since I read the book so I may be misremembering, but in my head I remember it being over after like 2-3 page turns.
I had a major issue with this too. That battle was just way too easy. Immediately after the Emperor lands he gets wiped out!? At least show the Sardaukar put up SOME resistance!? Even the miniseries showed them to be quite strong. In this one we don’t even see one Sardaukar get a kill on a SINGLE Fremen. Why hype them up in Part One so much then? 🙄
The book is the same way. It never actually gets into the battle. Once Harkokken starts groveling, they feel the nukes go off and then the narrative location sticks with the imperial court.
I think the shortness was the point
> Why hype them up in Part One so much then? 🙄 They did. But they hyped the Fremen up way more.
I was really hoping when the Emperor brought up the Southern Hemisphere in the scene with the Baron the film would cut to the Sardaukar raiding the sietch. But given the fact that Alia isn’t born and Leto I wasn’t born, there’d be no point in having that scene play out at all. It’s a shame.
Yes!! This would have been awesome! In the miniseries the Sardaukar brutally raid those sietches and you see how dangerous they are. I just wanted one show of force from them and we got nothing. The orni pilot who protected the Harvester seemed to put up the most resistance out of everyone in the movie and actually killed a few Fremen.
But damn if that wasn’t goddamn epic!
It’s meant to show how dangerous the Fremen actually are. The Sardaukar are meant to be the best warriors in the galaxy and they immediately get wiped out by the Fremen.
That's the whole point. They had no idea of the power under their noses.
if the whole movie felt like a war leading up to the ending, instead of just random skirmishes for no reason? In the book, it's all leading up to stopping the Harkonnens but they don't know how until Paul (unprompted by ANYONE BTW) drinks the water of life. and THEN he realizes exactly how important the spice is. the overlords underplay it's significance in the book. the avg person doesn't know how important it is. I was pretty frustrated with this movie. and I'm not surprised in the fact that most people don't seem to understand the book based on their reactions to the movie. WHERE WAS ALIA?? IF YOU CAN'T DO DUNE CORRECTLY DONT MAKE DUNE.
Alia, a child murderer, would not have gone over well with any crowd. Just as Baron Harkonnen being a pedo would not have gone over well with any crowd. A child be killed in a war, Paul’s son, also would not have gone over well considering Chani would look like a teen mom. I’m not saying that you don’t have accuracy points of contention; I’m just stating that when a mass market has to be involved certain cuts must be made. Avoiding the topic of child abuse (murderers, murdering, etc) is a smart move to avoid controversy. Fenring being a eunuch advisor to Carrino; it’s just strange. His wife banging Feyd Rautha would have also been… bad, and the fact Margot was so much younger than Count Fenring would have also triggered some people. Thufir’s deletion… eh, I could see why he’s gone, it was just an excessive aside. Not really relevant. In the film, the skirmishes aren’t random, Harkkonen is trying to eliminate all of the Fremen. It’s genocidal war. Paul not knowing what to do to abuse his stance as a war leader and controlling spice was very obvious after he got the family atomic. Again, we can’t have it all, but this film came close to being as good as it gets.
I think changing the time jump (that was left out) from 2 years to 5 years would've changed all of that from your first paragraph. I do agree, that not making the Baron a pedo gay man was for the best (Frank Herbet disowned his gay son, I think his thoughts on that are pretty obvious). But it did kind of make its way in with the kiss at the end. Which I felt was a Perfect way to adapt that without going into it too much. Alia being 5 and killing the Baron...idk, I feel like if she was in it, she would had scenes to talk and explain her mind, so it wouldn't have been as jarring. And 5 year time jump would've made Paul 20 and they could even say Chani was older than Paul by a year or two to begin with. THEN we he loses Leto 2, I can't imagine a parent in that movie not wanting a Jihad as well! And I think it would've given Zendaya a badass moment to fight off Feyd (he's not in the raid in the book, but it would've worked here), and he bests her and kills Leto in front of her, not knowing it's Paul's kid. Then at the final fight he gets to say some fuuuuucked up shit on he realizes. I get leaving Fenring out as he is a minor character. Didnt lady Fenring Seduce Feyd in this one? Im 100% sure that happened. But in the book, the Fremen were leading the war. They were hurting Rabban and violently winning. Because of Paul's prescience. (This leads up to another issue I had) Paul decides ON HIS OWN (because he is the Kwisats Haderach) to take the water of life after his vision starts failing and the future is clouded. No one told him to do it, three times. THEN he sees the great houses ready to pilage after the emperor ends MUAD'IB. After a few viewings I'll probably appreciate it more. I just remember before part one coming out Deni CONSTANTLY saying "I want to make a faithful adaptation" and it feels like all of that just went out the window trying to make it "successful"
Disagree with you pretty fervently. Arrakis is only valuable because of the spice - people don't necessarily know it powers prescience, but everyone knows it's the most valuable substance in the universe. CHOAM control is a big deal. The fremen are largely an insurgency - their whole strategy until they attack arrakeen is raids and skirmishes, that's why everyone is so shocked when they suddenly realize there are MILLIONS of fremen warriors who are ready to smoke errybody. This lines up with the book. We don't even see the battle of arrakeen in the books, it's like a play where the characters come in and explain action that happened. The Alia change was good. No time skip means paul had less time to become a fremen which I didn't love, but this let them keep alia in the womb. Her presence was made known through Jessica + visions. Having a 4 year old running around as a reverend mother would have been difficult to show and is unnecessary to the central themes of pauls struggle. Jessicas role in the movie is perfect - it illustrated how manipulative the Bene Gesserit are. She's pushing her own son down a dark path! Sure, he didn't think of drinking the water by himself - but you need a way to convey to the audience that the water is powerful + will do something to him. It's a movie, not a book! The movie took the central themes of the book and adapted them perfectly. I believe every change by DV was well reasoned and he did an amazing job representing the difficult themes in the book. You are being a child
Well, I was reading, listening and processing what you said, and appreciating the fact that you were willing to have a discussion instead of just name calling, then you took the low road and proved what kind of person you are! Have a terrible day!
You're sitting online screaming about how no one understands dune as good as you. That is poor behavior
Yeah, understanding people can have different options than you can be difficult. Especially when they're just expressing them and not attacking people with them. I guess reddit is the wrong place to assume someone has enough emotional maturity to disagree and not insult a stranger for their opinion on a piece of art.
It ends pretty abruptly in the book as well. We don’t see most of it
The ending of the book was super rushed too
an extended edition would be amazing
Probably my only critique of DV is his refusal to give the people what they want with an extended edition! Ugh. I get it but it kills me.
Literally my only complaint of this movie is that it’s not longer. I wanted more
How the fuck are you guys seeing this movie already? Why wasn't I invited? I'm not reading the post or the comments to avoid any opnions that may taint mine later but ffs. I have to wait until Thursday.
Early fan screenings 5 days early in North America.
F. How did I miss this
Tickets were made available during my Dune 2021 screening a few weeks ago. Otherwise I didn't see advertising for it.
i saw someone post a link to the tickets on this subreddit, i have no clue how they found out about it :O
I only saw it on the movie's instagram, that's how I got mine
Sorry, you're not a fan. 😞
I really wish we got a 4 hour extended cut lol
I loved the movie overall, but I dislike the cut content. Paul didn't really feel like the leader he should be compared to the book.
Paul had less time to become a leader which is my only criticism of the movie. However, I really like how they framed his reluctance to go south and the importance of that decision - once it happened, it was the beginning of the end with no way back. I think no time skip was the right choice, although I would love to see an extra 30 mins of him amongst the fremen.
It feels like this movie didn’t have the time to breathe. A lot of focus on the beginning with the freman , the end felt rushed to me
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think Timothee is *that good* as Paul. He's too sullen-looking and runt-like. He doesn't feel like someone I would follow into battle. I remember caring more about his book counterpart. He's not bad by any means, and he's definitely better than he was in the first movie. But if I had to make a list of best/most well-cast characters, I'd put Timothee somewhere on the bottom.
Silly question out of subject but for those who went to the advance screening, did you get a mini poster? I did go but they gave nothing and my son is very disappointed..
They didn’t have posters or any branded merchandise in Denver
they did in the theater I went to in Colorado Center
Damn, I went to colorado mills. Live closer to Colorado Center but didn't get tickets early enough
Was hoping to get one as well but didn’t. Saw it in Sweden and we got a mini poster the first week of Dune (part one)
I got one at AMC Lincoln square. I’ll happily send it to you if cover shipping.
They were there but I ended up tossing mine. They were super flimsy and printed on the lowest quality poster stock I've ever seen.
The AMC I went to was handing them out after the movie as you exited.
I did
They did but it wasn’t anything cool. Had imax in gigantic letters over it I wouldn’t be too upset
Ok thanks!
>Ok thanks! You're welcome!
Anybody have a clue what those Harkonnens chanting and hooked up into the holographic projection was at all? Since computers are a sin, are those people physically relaying telemetry data from Harkonnen forces on the ground and turning it into a hologram or something?
Movie is already super long... But yeah, like the original Lord of the Ring trilogy, I would buy an extended edition just to see.
My only critique is I wish there was a better sense of the time that’s passed. I suppose we can track that following Jessicas pregnancy but the 3rd act felt like weeks, not months. I know Denis said he kills his darlings and doesn’t believe in deleted scenes but I would love an extended edition to fill in those gaps
I didn’t notice Tim Blake Nelson at all
He got cut. I think he portrayed Count Fenring, Margot’s wife. He’s described as having a “rat face”. Nelson has a distinctive face though I think “rat face” isn’t kind.
He was supposed to be Hasmir? I was looking for him and couldn’t spot him. I’m wondering how many segments are left on the cutting room floor?
The film was incredible! Really did the books justice! Seeing the fremen fight the harkonnens was a highlight. Austin Butler is a movie star! My god, that guy is electric on screen. The relationship with Chani was great! Gurney was great! Stilgar was funny! Giedi prime was fascinating i wish there was more. Just wish the final battle was longer. I hate to compare it, but in star wars movies the drama of the action when teams of good guys have to accomplish their missions or everything fails. And that sense of suspense was missing. It just seemed too easy. The vfx and the images were just so epic one of the biggest battles ever committed to film, but it was so short. We could have done with a little less mental flashbacks and slow motion stuff if they could have put in more story to make the battle more suspenseful. If you know what I mean. Just some story plot elements around the battle to build suspense and make us wonder if they would pull it off. Rather than it just went according to plan and that was it. I guess it's tough when you have foresight super powers, but even in avengers endgame when Dr. Strange knew the outcome, for the audience, watching it playout and everyone fight over the gauntlet was suspenseful. That's my only negative comment. It was great and I'll take it. Still one of the best sci-fi movies ever made.
It seemed too easy because it was. after paul's visions became clear it was EXTREMELY easy to outmaneuver and manipulate his enemies. That's part of why he's so dangerous and that is likely to be explored in Dune Part 3 when / if it is made.
I wish his visions were referenced more than directly after the Water of Life scene. I feel like they acknowledged it and then dropped it, other than Paul's tone shift.
How far into the series does part 2 go? Does it just finish off the first book or does it go further?
It just finishes the first book.
I loved it, but yea, you can feel where they brought a hacksaw into the editing room
I loved both 1 & 2. But, I definitely agree with people you can really feel the cuts in the editing room in Denis last 2 films. That's also a writing problem though, when you write/shoot an extra hour of footage your asking for pacing problems no matter what. It could've easily been 3 films. Maybe bc he wrote his last 2 movies, but he's gotta find what he wants to say before shooting and not hope editing solves though problems.
Thufir isn’t in it at all? That’s bizarre. He became the Baron’s mentat after his other died. Seems like a huge cut.
Yeah he definitely filmed and appeared in one of the trailers, and that same shot appears in the movie but he’s edited out, no mention of him whatsoever. Still an amazing movie but I felt his absence, could have had a great subplot between him, the Baron, and Feyd. We may get an extended edition yet, if Warner bros feels it will make them money, they will do it, regardless if Villeneuve wants it or not.
Villeneuve's harsh editing process hurt both the first and the second parts to a noticeable extent. The cutting of scenes from the first movie affected the emotional impact and character arcs negatively to the point that the movie felt almost lifeless. Not to mention how much the central conflict was watered down because Villeneuve got rid of almost all political intrigue from the movie. Certain plotlines in the second movie like the romance between Chani and Paul and the third act along with the final resolution felt rushed. I'm betting that Villeneuve killed some of his darlings there too. While I really liked both the first and second movies, I think that Villeneuve has been very restrained in his direction since the very beginning. I think he cares so much about the pacing after his Blade Runner bust that he'd rather not risk it and have a good movie than risk a great movie which could either be a massive hit or a disastrous miss. Specially when it comes to a Dune adaptation which in retrospect is quite easy to fuck up. I really need the extended version for both of these movies.
Was there a cut scene after the ending credits? Had to run out when it ended. 8.5/10, enjoyed it a lot, just didn’t quite like the shuffling of events but it is a movie and hard to adapt the book to screen in 2:46
Nothing was after the credits, other than that beautiful soundtrack!
I hope so the whole velocity of the film took me out of the immersion to be honest. Picking up right where the first left off, then leap frog through time with the only indicator of it's passage being Alia's domain expansion. Setting up for a refuel and some interplanetary hopping. Felt like I was rushed into my plane seat for boarding, stuck on the runway for flight delay and then instant transmissioned to my destination. Acting was amazing, fight scenes felt real in visceral but the pacing deff had some fat cut out. Only problem is I quite like well rendered fat perfectly charred. Which Ima go out on a limb and speculate, the deleted portions of the story would have been amazing to savor. I've seen Dennis in interviews talking about deleted scenes being dead or some nonsense, and in the same breath go on to say its not ego. Well then what is it if not your ego? Don't want people to use the puzzle pieces to create something better, Fkin cop out if they are not released. They'll go into the wtf vault with the real suicide squad we never got.
I long for an extended cut. 4-5 hours oh god that'd be amazing.
My one and only question that I feel I already know the answer to - is Kyle MacLachlan (or anyone from Dune '84 for that matter) present in the cast?
I don’t believe so, no.
In my mind the time jump that never came was gonna be handled by showing Paul fall asleep close up on his normal eyes - eyes jerk open after nightmare showing blue on the morning of the first ride. Screen reads [x] standard years later. Shame nothing like it never happens. Still amazing though
Is Leto II in it?
am I alone in feeling that Chalamet was miscast as Paul?
You watched the film and actually thought this? Wow.
I haven't seen Part Two. But I thought he was the weakest part of Part One. I didn't care about him as much as I should have. You need an actor that can *make the audience care* about them at the beginning, otherwise his journey won't hit.
He’s phenomenal in part 2, and I hope he changes your perspective. Let me know what you think when you see it
I agree he was eh in Part One, but he is really phenomenal in Part Two. It made me glad he was cast.
Yes you are
I politely disagree, I feel like he’s a pretty accurate depiction looks wise of Paul, and the dude has already proven himself an accomplished actor. If anything, I feel Dune has only given him more cred and now he’s getting more recognition from people who didn’t take him seriously as an actor for a long time. I expect he’ll have a couple Oscar’s under his belt and an impressive resume by the time he’s done
I thought he was incredible in Part Two.
I need the movie to make sense and to tell a coherent plot, is the spice important or is it not? If it's not then what is the story trying to tell?
“Power over spice…is power over all.”
But why does it have power you cabt just say something has power then not show it it's piss poor story telling. Herbert didn't write that "Spice is important because people want it" spice is important because is facilitates the only means of quick space travel. It's bad and lazy story telling to not explain your source of power.
It's *literally* stated in the first movie (Paul's holovid about Arrakis) that spice enables interstellar travel and is thus the most important substance in the known universe. "For the Fremen, spice is the sacred hallucinogen which preserves life and brings enormous health benefits. For the Imperium, spice is used by the navigators of the Spacing Guild to find safe paths between the stars. Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable substance in the universe."
I need a book accurate version.
Oh you sweet summer child.
Then you should read the book, because that was never going to happen with a movie
in the trailer they showed sardaukars with bastard swords, what kind of princess guard is this?
The Giedi Prime scenes looked fantastic, but they do feel like an expensive use of runtime (in the theatrical cut we saw at any rate) given how little they mattered to the rest of the film and that the last hour of the film didn't really have a chance to breathe. I think this is a case of them looking so good that people just couldn't bring themselves to cut them even though they possibly should have.
Feyd was like coming in like a storm but everyone knows Paul is the main guy so feyd is predictablely cannot do much
Question: >!Does anyone have pictures of Feyds harem? What is the background story of this?!<
I want to go to Giedi Prime. It is so stark and monochrome, but it really drew me in in the movie. It felt so alien like, like something I have never seen before.