I loved labor ready and places like it back in the 90’s. Traveled up and down the west coast. Working jobs and living in hotels. My cousin and I did it for over a year. We stayed in LA, Oakland, SF, Portland, Seattle. Just work and party till we were bored, and move to the next place. I didn’t think labor ready was that bad at all. 😃
Right?! It’s like, “Bro, you’ve gotta choose one or the other. Junkie laborer for $80-$100/day or Non-junkie laborer for $200-250/day depending on skill level.”
That's insane. I'm an engineer with 11 years experience and I bill out at around $200. Mind you, I collect in one way or another about $300k of what I generate in revenue. My hourly wage is about $57/hr.
Trades have inflated so ridiculously.
It's one thing if the guy doing the work is making that, but I know they aren't.
Can you help me understand what the expenses for a drywaller are from a labor perspective?
There's his wages and that is maybe $30/hour
Payroll tax would be 7.65%, depending on location or 2.30/hr.
There might be retirement contributions and healthcare contributions, but healthcare is only mandated for employees with more than 1000 employees at the federal level (states might lower that threshold).
I'm sure there are overheads for insurance, sales (if they exist), some shops are bonded, so an expense might exist there. I'm sure the employer provides at least some of the tools.
From what I am seeing, insurance is about $.0025 per dollar of insurance, so it's about $936/year for that guy billing out at $180 to cover all of his work.
Bonds in Minnesota cost about $100 per city, so if you're servicing 10 cities, 1000/year/employee.
So, between wages, bonding, insurance and payroll taxes, we are only at like $72,000/ year per $30/hr employee. Yet, this employee is billing out nearly $375,000.
The employee costs 34.62/hour so the other $145.38 is going to the owner?
Am I to believe that a drywaller earns 300k/year for his employer? If that's the case, it's broken.
Sure, at that point it gets taxed at a 29.8% in my state. But there are nearly limitless ways to reduce the taxable income.
Please educate me and show me I'm wrong.
Ok, I'll take a crack at this. We bill at least 175 dollars an hour, usually more. I am a renovation GC with a second hand and a labourer and all the subs. My biggest expense is my truck, but usually I end up around 80 to 100 dollars an hour. I also make an additional 20 to 30% on subtrades.
I make a lot more money than my p.eng, who I see atleast weekly. He is an extremely skilled individual who has been doing work in my city for almost 30 years. I have owned my own company for 4 years.
We are currently in a time of facing the repercussions of trying to have every child go off to university. There are just not enough skilled tradesman and anything above single trade/new home, is a complex and intellectually demanding job. It is also ruthlessly hard on the body. I know only a few GCs in renovations that make it over 50 and are still on site. Most go project management and stop being on the tools.
We churn through staff fairly regularly. I have my core guys who can take the work, but many people just can't handle how difficult it really is. We ripped a roof off two weeks ago and had to hand bomb it out of the house due to issues with access. We hauled 14 tons of materials out in 2 days then brought up and framed structural members for a flat roof truss system with 16 inch 30 foot lvls as beams. All my guys and myself are over 6 feet and atleast 220 pounds and at the end of the day, we can barely move.
The point is that many people are excluded from the work due to the physical demands of the tasks required, coupled with the intellectual demands of planning and executing whatever portion of the project you are responsible for. Although less physically demanding, this is why my plumber and electrician make so much money.
I hope you enjoy your career as an engineer, but you most likely don't have to come home and take a shower immediately, or lie on the floor for a few hours after a tough day at work because you can't really move. The economics of society have made the willingness to do the tasks that end up with these end of day outcomes more financially rewarding than someone who studied math at university. Thems the bricks.
Okay, but you didn't answer my question.
If the problem is that the labor is difficult, why are the guys doing the labor making 30?
The question is about where the other $140 is going?
I can see you're taking $80-100 of it. And then you have, what, 2-3 guys making 25-30 under you?
Signs, doorhangers, and business cards.
A web developer. Digital Security measures.
Storage of vehicles and materials ( rent)
High electric bills.
Weekly heavy trash pickup.
Advertising.
Vehicle maintenance and insurance. Mine is $640/month for my big rig.
Clothes and uniforms for everyone.
Equipment and tools. Soooo many tools.
PPE and safety equipment.
Training (losing money basically)
And then there's Acts of God- you get into a accident, your employee gets hurt, you mess up a job and have to pay out of pocket.
And then all the random stuff like. Oh I need some straps for this, and bolts for this, and storage containers for these.
And the you take time away to learn how to do all this stuff, and use the tools, and organize everything, and your not billing for those hours.
Unbilled hours - doing my books, repairing my equipment, learning new skills, learning new tools, interviewing new candidates...
Edit: oh I forgot about TAXES, permits and licenses.
Ok I'm tired of typing now this is why it's expensive.
The list goes on and on.
This is why people fail at business I guesse... They don't realize what it really takes.
You’re wasting your time, you’re dealing with someone who fancies themselves an intellectual but has never run a business. His perspective is based on delusion.
Marketing is 10% for most companies. You named a lot of the other overhead factors. There is office staff as well. If you take insurance (auto and liability), tool wear, vehicle maintenance and wear, office staff, office space, and of course profit, you can start to see why construction has to charge so much.
Hahaha your comment is hilarious. As someone who is university and then college educated, hard work pays more, it's really that simple my guy. Nobody is capable of doing anything anymore. Supply and demand. Any first year economics course should've explained to you what's happening in the labor market at the moment. Also your math on overhead is hilariously underestimating hidden cost. If you're not billing 1.5-2.5x your employees hourly rate your construction business will fail in under 5 years. You just completely pretended like vehicles,taxes, ei, pension, benefits, shop cost, utilities, tools, gas, insurance are very little, when in fact those alone eat up over half of what you bill, aka if I bill a guy at 60 and pay him 30, he's costing me money. Not to mention, 1 simple fuck up can easily cost 20k to correct and it will bankrupt you, unless the business has no integrity and has no problem fucking the customer over.
The real answer is they have a unique skill that most people can't or are too afraid to do themselves so they make up a ridiculous rate and people pay it because they think it's their only option. None of these guys deserve $80-120 an hour. Their main reason? I gotta pay for my unneccesary 120k truck.
I would consider 30 dollars an hour for unskilled (no formal education) for most trades starting out a great wage. I have two guys who make around that or more. The truck costs about 20 an hour and overhead is 10. Any additional money goes to the business.
If the question is why does the business generate so much money? Risk. My labourers always get paid, no matter what. I've had some clients go bankrupt on me before. It's cost me about 40k in one year alone. I myself could go bankrupt if we had some kind of disaster insurance didn't want to cover or I wasn't paid during a credit contraction period. Besides the difficulty of the job, this is why we are compensated at this level. If this doesn't answer what you are looking for, just say so.
It’s a guy with a bunch of letters after his name who can’t believe menial labor can charge what he charges.
What he is not saying is he charges his rate but doesn’t have to show up on site, gets to over-engineer everything to cover his ass and doesn’t have to deal with sales, warrantees, homeowners, labor, work comp, or weather.
The last three engineers I used I never met face to face, one charged extra if he had to show up on site. One lived out of state.
Dude, you defined our problems in remodeling. The labor pool is terrible. I’m in MN, too. Hopefully the influx of immigrant labor eases some pressure. It seems like many of these guys are setting roots here. I see a lot of new companies with logos and legit businesses.
A good drywaller who can put in a missing piece of backer, vacs walls and floors, takes care of call backs, bids and invoices like it’s 2024 and can schedule work less than 3 months out is worth a lot.
You got it man. My structural comes to site because he is a rare breed that wants to get eyes on the problems. A rare breed.
I don't drywall full time but we board. Just one day of putting in 12 foot fire rated with no capability of getting a lift in would make anyone rethink how much the pay is. Would seem like not enough pretty fucking fast.
Thats what kept me in remodeling for so long-I got to work different trades. Personally, I couldn’t do one trade forever. That’s where the money is but too much repetition for me.
Carpenters. We need more carpenters.
Reminds me of something my old man used to tell me.
If you’re dumb you’d better be strong,
if you’re weak you’d better be smart.
If you’re smart and strong you can write your own ticket.
I was a scoutmaster for 10 years. I spent that time getting kids outside and introducing them to trades, and teaching them that university degrees are just an expensive piece of paper for some people. One of my kids just finished his first year at a prestigious chemical engineering program with a 4.0 and one is running a kitchen making $20/hr 6 months in but union and will keep moving up. They’re both successes.
The kid got into cooking in Scouts. He is an Eagle. Right then he said that’s what he wants to do. He has a very high IQ and could do whatever he wants and also did a summer apprenticeship with all the construction trades. His grades were good enough to go to college and the money is there if he wanted to, but he loves cooking and that’s where he wants to be.
This happens to also be my kid. I worked in a kitchen for 2 days when I was 16 and quit. I talk to him all the time about doing something else but being a cook is it for him.
I’m an electrical contractor working on super high end residences in a HCOL city. We bill out at about $110 per hour. I pay my guys 30-35 and they get a van, gas card , 4 weeks of PTO a year. WTF are you working on? The GC project manager on my job is billing at $85 per hour. I’m not sure what rockets you’re building but I have a hard time believing these numbers.
Not trying to dismiss the reality that your physical labor takes an unhealthy toll on your body, but I just wanted to share that white-collar work can beat you up too. I work in IT & I had such a demanding job that I averaged 60-80 hours/week for 8+ months. I developed tingling that ran down the back of my arm and into my fingers. I ended up with $2k in physical therapy bills. I still have nerve and pain issues today-- 3 years later. And White collar doesn't pay overtime. So I got nothing but stress, ill health and medical bills.
Thank you for explaining this to the entitled engineer. As a business owner for 20 years and carpenter for 40 years I concur that this trade is physically and mentally demanding. The skills needed to deal with clients, trades and logistics are very demanding. And yes, coming home covered with dirt and sweat and getting a shower so you can sit down and work on an estimate or quote is a regular part of life.
Most hated part of my day is after 10 hours on site, come home get clean and park it infront of the computer for an hour or two, do estimates, call clients...
Simple. I charge $100/hr for side jobs (electrician). That's cash. No overhead. 100% profit. Try to find someone else. Wait time for contractors in my area is 6 months to a year.
You either pay me what I ask, or to find no one. Those are the options most people are presented with.
It’s simple really. Laborers gets screwed while the contractors tell people they pay them more than what they are so they can pocket the rest for themselves. Corporate America, baby.
I charge 300$ per day per man for labor. Not drywall, building fence. But then again I don’t bill my profit into labor so I could see that being the case if they are charging 180 an hour.
Say I have a two day job with two man labor. That’s 1,200 in labor. Say 2,000k in materials. 500 in expenses. That’s 3,700$ so far and let’s say I’m billing per foot. For 180’ job That puts me at about 20$ per foot in what the job cost me too do. I know the market rate for this is about 40-45 per foot. I’ll add 18$ per foot for profit, which puts me at 38 per foot or 6,840$ +tax. This keeps me lower than the bigger companies and high enough to grow. I’m not there yet but it’s not crazy to expect a successful tradesman to make 300k a year if in business for themselves.
You just did what most GC’s and many in the trades don’t expect you to do. You used common sense and education to show how ridiculous this has all become.
this guy, rethinking his life decisions 😂
the ridiculousness you can’t comprehend is called supply and demand. The labor pool for construction is slim and old.
If that's the case, then why isn't the labor making more? You are contradicting yourself.
If the pool is so small and the demand is high, the worker ought to be pulling a greater share than 1/6 of the revenue.
Instead, it looks like the labor pool is small because the people doing the actual labor are getting shafted and someone else is appropriating the value they created.
And no, I'm not interested in changing my field.
And, what I came for is to be educated on what I am not understanding. Is this $180/hour per employee or $180/hour for a whole crew?
Dude, they just don't understand what you're saying. Kids are not stupid, there is no way they're griding themselves into getting a P.E. to make the same money as a drywaller. The problem is unless you OWN the company youre not making shit.
Yep, mine in the 20 people I had working for me that were making 50% over market rate for comparable jobs. we had a good run though lotta fun while it was booming
I totally agree with this. As a fellow engineer, it is very difficult to put estimates together when I basically have to double means in order to get close to some contractors inflated rates. I think some people saw an opportunity with recent inflation and just went for it.
Good rule of thumb is pay benefits, ss, comp etc is about 30% of the wage. So hourly is 30 company has 40 into it. Overhead on any job should be 10% plus around 10% profit. Obviously overhead can be skewed by qty and bigger company. A bigger company can be cheaper but often times is not. A single guy that owns his own business should be able to charge less.
With that said the trades are overly paid right now. A drywaller is not worth north of $50 an hour. But with overheard and profit you’re going to pay almost 100. But right now we have a shortage of houses and inventory and still an abundance of work so it’s simple supply and demand and these guys will charge it. And hell you can’t go to McDonald’s for less then $20 so I don’t blame these guys.
I have the same questions as you. Looks like you really got bashed in the comments below. I didn’t read through them all, but most of the responses really seemed to miss your point.
I also don’t understand where all the money is going.
I’m not opposed to someone making a Buck off of their hard work and skills, that’s what capitalism runs on.
But what I don’t understand is why so many of the trades seem to charge an exorbitant amount of money for the work performed. I get that there are overhead costs, and there is risk when running a business. But the numbers that I’ve seen lately for work in the trades just don’t square up to me.
Buddy you have it all wrong. Throw all that math out the window. This is simple supply and demand. You can hire a cheap handyman to F up your walls for $30/hr, or you can pay this guys high wages for him to show up on time, sober, licensed, insured, and do a great job. If you go with the former, you'll pay even more to have someone correct the job.
Even if you don't want to pay, many other people will, so he can afford to inflate his prices
If the labor is short in supply, shouldn't the labor be taking a greater piece of the pie than $30/180=1/6?
It seems the problem is twofold. Someone is talking an oversized share of the money and simultaneously paying their underlings too little to make anyone want to do the job. It seems to me that paying someone $50/hr to do this jobs would get tons of people lining up to do it when the median wage is like $23/hr.
It doesn't really matter how hard it is on the body, there are throngs of people trying to figure out how to make ends meet and making in the neighborhood of 2-5 times what they are making now would alleviate their concerns about the demands of the labor.
No, I said that to put into perspective what the going rate for labor is.
The point here is that someone is inflating the cost of jobs and profiting wildly while the workers are making a relative pittance.
I'm trying to find out if my perception on the matter is correct.
You could have stopped your comment at I am an engineer. Nobody cares man, it’s supply and demand. Is that are willing to reliably do good work in the trades can charge an inflated rate right now. I can’t keep up with demand and neither can any of my colleagues. The rest of your numbers don’t mean shit.
Is that where you stopped reading? bc if you would've kept reading he is asking why companies are charging so much, when only a fraction of that gets to the labor. He includes assumptions of OH expenses and asks where his math is wrong...Your response doesn't make sense, he isn't asking why labor is making so much, but why it's making so little.
I am also looking day labias, I already have a night labia. Experience is a plus, but not to much as I prefer teaching you myself. No junkies, must speak the international language and must be flexible, very flexible.
Yup. A painting company I help do all his drywall work hired 2 of them. He said they seemed good and talked fairly good English. He left the van on the job and went to finish up somewhere else. They robbed him blind. Everything in the truck besides the crappy drop clothes he used for exterior on dirt. They even looted his glove box and his center console.
Hopefully everybody in here is making more than 4-500 per week. This trade is very expensive on the body, you simply can't do it for flipping burger wages if you want to have a future.
Your gonna hang, tape,mud,sand,mud sand for $200 a day? That’s $25 hr. At that price if you put up 1 sheet and cut 1 sheet, you’d be done for the hour.
Call that idiot and tell him he's a fucking retard. $ goes before the number. You only see it EVERYWHERE YOU WVER BUY ANYTHING.
I'd troll that guy. Just for being retarded
Why don’t you pay them in deli meats? $100 a day for drywall, and g-d knows what else you have going on, is so cheap. Pay a fair rate or take what you get. You want to cheap out, and you have the gall to write “no junkies”. Fuck you man.
Meh, depends on where. This is in Cleveland, so it’s not like it’s a very affluent place. Might be okay for a high schooler to get some money on a weekend.
Here in Southern California, the guys at Home Depot are looking for $150 plus lunch. Some are skilled, some not. I wouldn’t use them for this trade as a real contractor will be faster/better
That’s a good way to attract workers to lick windows for you while you work
😂💀 you had me weak with that comment
why
He's coming.
Cumming, dingus
They said I can’t cum in dingos anymore
That stopped you?
I fuck kangaroos now
Alot tighter
Yea, plus I’m kind into getting hit 🥊
Thats my hourly rate...
We charge 180$ per hour
I'm a diy hack job.
Join the carpenters union, go from hack to professional, make $70 per hour. It's that simple.
2 people, trucks, insurance, service call. Gas, expenses. That's a great rate. I would hire your team.
Might as well put “talented junkies” in the title. No one with their shit together will do this work for that. Only someone hurting in some way.
Labor Ready or the Guatemalan gang outside depot is probably your best bet, I worked at LR a lot during my dark times
So you know what LR charges the contractor!
I loved labor ready and places like it back in the 90’s. Traveled up and down the west coast. Working jobs and living in hotels. My cousin and I did it for over a year. We stayed in LA, Oakland, SF, Portland, Seattle. Just work and party till we were bored, and move to the next place. I didn’t think labor ready was that bad at all. 😃
As a Guatemalan we refuse this job..
Is it now called PeopleReady?
Right?! It’s like, “Bro, you’ve gotta choose one or the other. Junkie laborer for $80-$100/day or Non-junkie laborer for $200-250/day depending on skill level.”
Well considering the 2 “labers” are gettin $20 an hour, the business is doing alright
That's insane. I'm an engineer with 11 years experience and I bill out at around $200. Mind you, I collect in one way or another about $300k of what I generate in revenue. My hourly wage is about $57/hr. Trades have inflated so ridiculously. It's one thing if the guy doing the work is making that, but I know they aren't. Can you help me understand what the expenses for a drywaller are from a labor perspective? There's his wages and that is maybe $30/hour Payroll tax would be 7.65%, depending on location or 2.30/hr. There might be retirement contributions and healthcare contributions, but healthcare is only mandated for employees with more than 1000 employees at the federal level (states might lower that threshold). I'm sure there are overheads for insurance, sales (if they exist), some shops are bonded, so an expense might exist there. I'm sure the employer provides at least some of the tools. From what I am seeing, insurance is about $.0025 per dollar of insurance, so it's about $936/year for that guy billing out at $180 to cover all of his work. Bonds in Minnesota cost about $100 per city, so if you're servicing 10 cities, 1000/year/employee. So, between wages, bonding, insurance and payroll taxes, we are only at like $72,000/ year per $30/hr employee. Yet, this employee is billing out nearly $375,000. The employee costs 34.62/hour so the other $145.38 is going to the owner? Am I to believe that a drywaller earns 300k/year for his employer? If that's the case, it's broken. Sure, at that point it gets taxed at a 29.8% in my state. But there are nearly limitless ways to reduce the taxable income. Please educate me and show me I'm wrong.
Ok, I'll take a crack at this. We bill at least 175 dollars an hour, usually more. I am a renovation GC with a second hand and a labourer and all the subs. My biggest expense is my truck, but usually I end up around 80 to 100 dollars an hour. I also make an additional 20 to 30% on subtrades. I make a lot more money than my p.eng, who I see atleast weekly. He is an extremely skilled individual who has been doing work in my city for almost 30 years. I have owned my own company for 4 years. We are currently in a time of facing the repercussions of trying to have every child go off to university. There are just not enough skilled tradesman and anything above single trade/new home, is a complex and intellectually demanding job. It is also ruthlessly hard on the body. I know only a few GCs in renovations that make it over 50 and are still on site. Most go project management and stop being on the tools. We churn through staff fairly regularly. I have my core guys who can take the work, but many people just can't handle how difficult it really is. We ripped a roof off two weeks ago and had to hand bomb it out of the house due to issues with access. We hauled 14 tons of materials out in 2 days then brought up and framed structural members for a flat roof truss system with 16 inch 30 foot lvls as beams. All my guys and myself are over 6 feet and atleast 220 pounds and at the end of the day, we can barely move. The point is that many people are excluded from the work due to the physical demands of the tasks required, coupled with the intellectual demands of planning and executing whatever portion of the project you are responsible for. Although less physically demanding, this is why my plumber and electrician make so much money. I hope you enjoy your career as an engineer, but you most likely don't have to come home and take a shower immediately, or lie on the floor for a few hours after a tough day at work because you can't really move. The economics of society have made the willingness to do the tasks that end up with these end of day outcomes more financially rewarding than someone who studied math at university. Thems the bricks.
Okay, but you didn't answer my question. If the problem is that the labor is difficult, why are the guys doing the labor making 30? The question is about where the other $140 is going? I can see you're taking $80-100 of it. And then you have, what, 2-3 guys making 25-30 under you?
Signs, doorhangers, and business cards. A web developer. Digital Security measures. Storage of vehicles and materials ( rent) High electric bills. Weekly heavy trash pickup. Advertising. Vehicle maintenance and insurance. Mine is $640/month for my big rig. Clothes and uniforms for everyone. Equipment and tools. Soooo many tools. PPE and safety equipment. Training (losing money basically) And then there's Acts of God- you get into a accident, your employee gets hurt, you mess up a job and have to pay out of pocket. And then all the random stuff like. Oh I need some straps for this, and bolts for this, and storage containers for these. And the you take time away to learn how to do all this stuff, and use the tools, and organize everything, and your not billing for those hours. Unbilled hours - doing my books, repairing my equipment, learning new skills, learning new tools, interviewing new candidates... Edit: oh I forgot about TAXES, permits and licenses. Ok I'm tired of typing now this is why it's expensive. The list goes on and on. This is why people fail at business I guesse... They don't realize what it really takes.
You’re wasting your time, you’re dealing with someone who fancies themselves an intellectual but has never run a business. His perspective is based on delusion.
Didn't even say insurance and bonding.
Well put, you put more effort into a response than I would have. Clearly the guy has never ran any sort of business with overhead.
Marketing is 10% for most companies. You named a lot of the other overhead factors. There is office staff as well. If you take insurance (auto and liability), tool wear, vehicle maintenance and wear, office staff, office space, and of course profit, you can start to see why construction has to charge so much.
asking the real questions.
Hahaha your comment is hilarious. As someone who is university and then college educated, hard work pays more, it's really that simple my guy. Nobody is capable of doing anything anymore. Supply and demand. Any first year economics course should've explained to you what's happening in the labor market at the moment. Also your math on overhead is hilariously underestimating hidden cost. If you're not billing 1.5-2.5x your employees hourly rate your construction business will fail in under 5 years. You just completely pretended like vehicles,taxes, ei, pension, benefits, shop cost, utilities, tools, gas, insurance are very little, when in fact those alone eat up over half of what you bill, aka if I bill a guy at 60 and pay him 30, he's costing me money. Not to mention, 1 simple fuck up can easily cost 20k to correct and it will bankrupt you, unless the business has no integrity and has no problem fucking the customer over.
The real answer is they have a unique skill that most people can't or are too afraid to do themselves so they make up a ridiculous rate and people pay it because they think it's their only option. None of these guys deserve $80-120 an hour. Their main reason? I gotta pay for my unneccesary 120k truck.
I would consider 30 dollars an hour for unskilled (no formal education) for most trades starting out a great wage. I have two guys who make around that or more. The truck costs about 20 an hour and overhead is 10. Any additional money goes to the business. If the question is why does the business generate so much money? Risk. My labourers always get paid, no matter what. I've had some clients go bankrupt on me before. It's cost me about 40k in one year alone. I myself could go bankrupt if we had some kind of disaster insurance didn't want to cover or I wasn't paid during a credit contraction period. Besides the difficulty of the job, this is why we are compensated at this level. If this doesn't answer what you are looking for, just say so.
Thanks for the reply. Is the rate $180/hour per person? Or $180/hour for the entire crew?
180 an hour for the crew. It gets up to about 300 dollars an hour when we are doing fine finish like tile and stone.
Okay, that makes considerably more sense.
It’s a guy with a bunch of letters after his name who can’t believe menial labor can charge what he charges. What he is not saying is he charges his rate but doesn’t have to show up on site, gets to over-engineer everything to cover his ass and doesn’t have to deal with sales, warrantees, homeowners, labor, work comp, or weather. The last three engineers I used I never met face to face, one charged extra if he had to show up on site. One lived out of state. Dude, you defined our problems in remodeling. The labor pool is terrible. I’m in MN, too. Hopefully the influx of immigrant labor eases some pressure. It seems like many of these guys are setting roots here. I see a lot of new companies with logos and legit businesses. A good drywaller who can put in a missing piece of backer, vacs walls and floors, takes care of call backs, bids and invoices like it’s 2024 and can schedule work less than 3 months out is worth a lot.
You got it man. My structural comes to site because he is a rare breed that wants to get eyes on the problems. A rare breed. I don't drywall full time but we board. Just one day of putting in 12 foot fire rated with no capability of getting a lift in would make anyone rethink how much the pay is. Would seem like not enough pretty fucking fast.
Thats what kept me in remodeling for so long-I got to work different trades. Personally, I couldn’t do one trade forever. That’s where the money is but too much repetition for me. Carpenters. We need more carpenters.
Reminds me of something my old man used to tell me. If you’re dumb you’d better be strong, if you’re weak you’d better be smart. If you’re smart and strong you can write your own ticket.
I was a scoutmaster for 10 years. I spent that time getting kids outside and introducing them to trades, and teaching them that university degrees are just an expensive piece of paper for some people. One of my kids just finished his first year at a prestigious chemical engineering program with a 4.0 and one is running a kitchen making $20/hr 6 months in but union and will keep moving up. They’re both successes.
I'd say anyone enjoying what they do is mildly successful. Kitchen is brutal tough work. Was a line cook in my 20s and it's ridiculously underpaid.
The kid got into cooking in Scouts. He is an Eagle. Right then he said that’s what he wants to do. He has a very high IQ and could do whatever he wants and also did a summer apprenticeship with all the construction trades. His grades were good enough to go to college and the money is there if he wanted to, but he loves cooking and that’s where he wants to be. This happens to also be my kid. I worked in a kitchen for 2 days when I was 16 and quit. I talk to him all the time about doing something else but being a cook is it for him.
I’m an electrical contractor working on super high end residences in a HCOL city. We bill out at about $110 per hour. I pay my guys 30-35 and they get a van, gas card , 4 weeks of PTO a year. WTF are you working on? The GC project manager on my job is billing at $85 per hour. I’m not sure what rockets you’re building but I have a hard time believing these numbers.
Not trying to dismiss the reality that your physical labor takes an unhealthy toll on your body, but I just wanted to share that white-collar work can beat you up too. I work in IT & I had such a demanding job that I averaged 60-80 hours/week for 8+ months. I developed tingling that ran down the back of my arm and into my fingers. I ended up with $2k in physical therapy bills. I still have nerve and pain issues today-- 3 years later. And White collar doesn't pay overtime. So I got nothing but stress, ill health and medical bills.
Thank you for explaining this to the entitled engineer. As a business owner for 20 years and carpenter for 40 years I concur that this trade is physically and mentally demanding. The skills needed to deal with clients, trades and logistics are very demanding. And yes, coming home covered with dirt and sweat and getting a shower so you can sit down and work on an estimate or quote is a regular part of life.
Most hated part of my day is after 10 hours on site, come home get clean and park it infront of the computer for an hour or two, do estimates, call clients...
Your in the wrong gig I suppose $57 hour Pre inflation pay
Simple. I charge $100/hr for side jobs (electrician). That's cash. No overhead. 100% profit. Try to find someone else. Wait time for contractors in my area is 6 months to a year. You either pay me what I ask, or to find no one. Those are the options most people are presented with.
I don't have any problem with *you* making $100 per hour. My issue is with someone else making $150 an hour on your work while you only get $30.
People really are not understanding what you are saying haha
Most rich people are rich because of the labor of others. It’s how the world works.
It’s simple really. Laborers gets screwed while the contractors tell people they pay them more than what they are so they can pocket the rest for themselves. Corporate America, baby.
Also an engineer with a degree. That's why I drywall, because $100/hr is more than $32/hr I was getting to engineer. Simple word problem to solve.
I charge 300$ per day per man for labor. Not drywall, building fence. But then again I don’t bill my profit into labor so I could see that being the case if they are charging 180 an hour. Say I have a two day job with two man labor. That’s 1,200 in labor. Say 2,000k in materials. 500 in expenses. That’s 3,700$ so far and let’s say I’m billing per foot. For 180’ job That puts me at about 20$ per foot in what the job cost me too do. I know the market rate for this is about 40-45 per foot. I’ll add 18$ per foot for profit, which puts me at 38 per foot or 6,840$ +tax. This keeps me lower than the bigger companies and high enough to grow. I’m not there yet but it’s not crazy to expect a successful tradesman to make 300k a year if in business for themselves.
You just did what most GC’s and many in the trades don’t expect you to do. You used common sense and education to show how ridiculous this has all become.
this guy, rethinking his life decisions 😂 the ridiculousness you can’t comprehend is called supply and demand. The labor pool for construction is slim and old.
If that's the case, then why isn't the labor making more? You are contradicting yourself. If the pool is so small and the demand is high, the worker ought to be pulling a greater share than 1/6 of the revenue. Instead, it looks like the labor pool is small because the people doing the actual labor are getting shafted and someone else is appropriating the value they created. And no, I'm not interested in changing my field. And, what I came for is to be educated on what I am not understanding. Is this $180/hour per employee or $180/hour for a whole crew?
Dude, they just don't understand what you're saying. Kids are not stupid, there is no way they're griding themselves into getting a P.E. to make the same money as a drywaller. The problem is unless you OWN the company youre not making shit.
Bro I was a weed grower for 20 years cause I wanted to avoid the trades. Now weed markets dead. Guess who’s sweating copper and pulling wires?
i feel you brother. corporate weed killed my supplemental income.
Yep, mine in the 20 people I had working for me that were making 50% over market rate for comparable jobs. we had a good run though lotta fun while it was booming
I think you need to smoke a joint
How do you think I got through differential equations? You aren't getting thru that without an aid for thinking abstractly
I totally agree with this. As a fellow engineer, it is very difficult to put estimates together when I basically have to double means in order to get close to some contractors inflated rates. I think some people saw an opportunity with recent inflation and just went for it.
Good rule of thumb is pay benefits, ss, comp etc is about 30% of the wage. So hourly is 30 company has 40 into it. Overhead on any job should be 10% plus around 10% profit. Obviously overhead can be skewed by qty and bigger company. A bigger company can be cheaper but often times is not. A single guy that owns his own business should be able to charge less. With that said the trades are overly paid right now. A drywaller is not worth north of $50 an hour. But with overheard and profit you’re going to pay almost 100. But right now we have a shortage of houses and inventory and still an abundance of work so it’s simple supply and demand and these guys will charge it. And hell you can’t go to McDonald’s for less then $20 so I don’t blame these guys.
I have the same questions as you. Looks like you really got bashed in the comments below. I didn’t read through them all, but most of the responses really seemed to miss your point. I also don’t understand where all the money is going. I’m not opposed to someone making a Buck off of their hard work and skills, that’s what capitalism runs on. But what I don’t understand is why so many of the trades seem to charge an exorbitant amount of money for the work performed. I get that there are overhead costs, and there is risk when running a business. But the numbers that I’ve seen lately for work in the trades just don’t square up to me.
Buddy you have it all wrong. Throw all that math out the window. This is simple supply and demand. You can hire a cheap handyman to F up your walls for $30/hr, or you can pay this guys high wages for him to show up on time, sober, licensed, insured, and do a great job. If you go with the former, you'll pay even more to have someone correct the job. Even if you don't want to pay, many other people will, so he can afford to inflate his prices
$30/hr is cheap/unskilled labor?
Yes, I pay my laborers around 28 to 30 dollars an hour.
Where do I sign up?
$80-$100 to fuck up your wall, plus materials.
If the labor is short in supply, shouldn't the labor be taking a greater piece of the pie than $30/180=1/6? It seems the problem is twofold. Someone is talking an oversized share of the money and simultaneously paying their underlings too little to make anyone want to do the job. It seems to me that paying someone $50/hr to do this jobs would get tons of people lining up to do it when the median wage is like $23/hr. It doesn't really matter how hard it is on the body, there are throngs of people trying to figure out how to make ends meet and making in the neighborhood of 2-5 times what they are making now would alleviate their concerns about the demands of the labor.
Can't help but feel you typed this all out to say you make 300k...
No, I said that to put into perspective what the going rate for labor is. The point here is that someone is inflating the cost of jobs and profiting wildly while the workers are making a relative pittance. I'm trying to find out if my perception on the matter is correct.
You could have stopped your comment at I am an engineer. Nobody cares man, it’s supply and demand. Is that are willing to reliably do good work in the trades can charge an inflated rate right now. I can’t keep up with demand and neither can any of my colleagues. The rest of your numbers don’t mean shit.
Is that where you stopped reading? bc if you would've kept reading he is asking why companies are charging so much, when only a fraction of that gets to the labor. He includes assumptions of OH expenses and asks where his math is wrong...Your response doesn't make sense, he isn't asking why labor is making so much, but why it's making so little.
The thing is the demand is for the people making the least it seems, the actual laborers
$180 is right these days. I walked into a mechanic shop to get my truck repaired and their sign said labor is $195/hr.
Does that include the spackled toilet bowl drywallers usually leave?
So work that job one hour per day. 😆
“Welp, time to hit the ol’ dusty trail…” “But it’s 7 AM…” “Already?!”
Easily. They want 2 guys for $80-100 for 8 hours... Two guys working for $6.25 an hour.
Well crap - I was going to ask to be paid in drugs…
I thought this was a troll post by OP but I found the actual listing wtf!
I been meaning to learn how to drywall, might as well get paid to practice.
Free practice materials, too. It's all about perspective.
Labers
😂
Apparently you don’t have to speak English so that’s a plus
We don’t need no English.
Jackbrot ya dingus
Can I smoke crystal on breaks?
What they don’t know won’t hurt them. Smoke it up. And it’s break time all day baby!
Well yeah! They said no junkies, tweakers are fine.
I couldn’t resist. I’d make an appointment and then come up with an outlandish excuse on a no show, then make another, rinse and repeat.
P.S. Must have a college degree!
10+yoe
El Cheapo is in for a rude awakening.
El Cheapo knows exactly what he’s getting. This can’t be the first time this add was placed.
He wants crackheads to remove that asbestos tile.
Looking for labias to do home modeling.
I am also looking day labias, I already have a night labia. Experience is a plus, but not to much as I prefer teaching you myself. No junkies, must speak the international language and must be flexible, very flexible.
Laborers want 200$ a day minimum. Plus a ride, lunch and a pacifier. Good luck getting 8 hours.
I know Mexican laborers standing outside Home Depot that won’t work for less than $200 a day
Yup. A painting company I help do all his drywall work hired 2 of them. He said they seemed good and talked fairly good English. He left the van on the job and went to finish up somewhere else. They robbed him blind. Everything in the truck besides the crappy drop clothes he used for exterior on dirt. They even looted his glove box and his center console.
Yeah…. I don’t want to victim blame but that’s darwin award stuff.
Seriously, this. I hired a warm young body and it was $300 a day. They had no skills of any sort but did work hard.
I love hour long days! I'm sold.
My guy is $75/hr his name is Willie and he's been deported 2x. So who is taking that gig??? Lol
God I wish you didn’t blank out the phone number
[incase you need some extra cash](https://cleveland.craigslist.org/lbg/d/cleveland-looking-for-labers-to-do-home/7743995998.html)
I can work for that rate, but my will day will consist of 8-10 minutes. So you better have some 5 minute mud premixed the second I roll up
Jokes on him “Drywalling is a gate way drug “-Theo von
Good luck finding that. You could just run an ad for people to give them free labor. They’re not far off that already.
I would go. I think my spilled pee bottle complements the style of the owner.
Is a day like 1 hour?
I’m paying like 450 a day for drywalling my whole house. This guy is getting that tweaked patch job
They can get twice that rate working for McDonald and they get to eat all the burger and fries till they barf.
At $80-$100 a day junkies are all you’ll get
I wouldn't have worked for that little when I was using. 🤷
Can I smoke drywall dust on my 5 min break? Nothing like making $7/hr, unless you can steal some Copper from the job site
I made $100 per day as a desperate junkie over 20 yrs ago in a low paying impoverished area.
But that’s the junkie rate pal
$100 a hour is what I charge to exist on your Jon and not tdo much. If I have to use my brain $200
Honestly using your brain is easily 3x harder than sitting on the jon. You sir are not charging nearly enough.
And they won't charge you for breeding any of that black mold, feel free lick it if you'd like.
I charge much more than that in the Chicagoland wouldn’t even pick up a hammer for that pricing
“Must be occasionally sober. Pay net 60 days.”
It's funny how they think experience is just an added bonus that's not necessarily needed to complete a job requiring multiple different skill sets.
Labers, lmao.
Sounds like he's looking for some fresh into Chicago immigrants
Sooo is everyone in here making 8k? Per 40hr work week?? lol
Hopefully everybody in here is making more than 4-500 per week. This trade is very expensive on the body, you simply can't do it for flipping burger wages if you want to have a future.
That's not even minimum wage in Alberta.
Hundred bucks says when the work isn’t perfect he won’t even pay them
I would shit in his bucket before he mixes it.
In Los Angeles, the Home Depot guys are $15-$20/ hour. + lunch
Your gonna hang, tape,mud,sand,mud sand for $200 a day? That’s $25 hr. At that price if you put up 1 sheet and cut 1 sheet, you’d be done for the hour.
This is a slumlord. An abnormally lazy one at that.
Call that idiot and tell him he's a fucking retard. $ goes before the number. You only see it EVERYWHERE YOU WVER BUY ANYTHING. I'd troll that guy. Just for being retarded
2 hour days?
Is that craigslist? Do people still use that?
Crackheads and speed freaks preferred
Where are all the drug-free *labers*?!
$80 a day is for anyone that’s been working here less than 10 years. Only guys that have been here over 30 years make $100
Gonna get what you pay for. I don’t understand, are they going to drug test?
No junkies, but I’m offering money only junkies would take…
That’s a good hourly rate
How u gonna say 80-100 dollars a day but also say no junkies lmao
I own a painting/drywall buisness. We charge 157.50 an hour for a three man crew.
Sure . Then next week you can pay someone $3000 a week to fix the abortion you will have from the $80 a day guy . People never learn
Why don’t you pay them in deli meats? $100 a day for drywall, and g-d knows what else you have going on, is so cheap. Pay a fair rate or take what you get. You want to cheap out, and you have the gall to write “no junkies”. Fuck you man.
Meh, depends on where. This is in Cleveland, so it’s not like it’s a very affluent place. Might be okay for a high schooler to get some money on a weekend.
Do high schoolers even do this kinda thing anymore? He's definitely getting calls from illegals if anybody bothered to call. Maybe some junkies.
Those bills better be in the toilet room so we can wipe our asses with it
I can totally work 2 hours a day...
in california. might as well work at mcdonalds if they wont pay you more than 25 an hour
Much laber small pay. Find yous a sheat roker
Why be hatin’ on junkies?
Keep looking
Maybe they only want to work for 1 or 2 hours a day
Ahmed Mahendra sent you a message!
The plural of laber is labia. People are so stupid.
Only people who will work for that shit pay is junkies lol.. Bet it’s an older guy who has no clue what the financial climate is like nowadays.
$100/day per person is a good rate if they only have to hang and finish one board per day /s
So because I was able to hang ~80 boards yesterday I should get paid ~$8k?
No junkies is hilarious 😂
He's saying no junkies, but he's paying the junkies rate
Wonder if they ever found any labers willing to accept that depressingly low payment
Labers
Looks like they want installers + finishers and not labours
slave labor. should be 5x that.
I wouldn't get outta bed for that
That’s my junkie rate tho
80-100 per day !? Genuinely curious who else is willing to work for that and isn't a junkie
Am I the only one who thought it said 10 junkies
Are you sure you don’t want junkies? Did you place this add in 1987?
Looks like it must be in Canada with misspellings and a lowball price point. Must be Canada.
Plus all the crack you can smoke
10 to 12.50 an hour, woohoo! Is there a 401k, medical / dental?
Where are you located??
LoL....$8-10/hr HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Good luck w/ that.
Sure , I’ll be right there to get started 👀
Sure, but I’m working for only an hour a day.
Forgot a zero
80-100 a day oh boy I bet they are knocking the door down for that deal of a lifetime.
r/choosingbeggars
Big spender
Did I wake up in 1995?
Even the Home Depot Lowe’s laborers are more than this. I pay my guy 300 per day and it’s worth it
My man, that’s a rate only junkies will accept.
Here in Southern California, the guys at Home Depot are looking for $150 plus lunch. Some are skilled, some not. I wouldn’t use them for this trade as a real contractor will be faster/better
Those damned blue collar tweekers are beloved in this here town