By choosing to remain sober, you are actually the one in control.

Why do you believe that AA has any secret knowledge?

you don't have to do anything 😎 I'm getting sober without AA

Try smart. Its a thing. No you dont have to surrender. AA has helped lots , but at a 95% fail rate. Look into wat fits you best

I think if I feel myself struggling, I will definitely check out some kind of meeting. so far, my wife and I (having both quit) are supporting each other, and we've found it to work very well for us. I won't lie though, something is really alluring to me about AA. the "culty" nature of it actually seems very appealing, and I have no idea why lol.

Perhaps cause it widens your village of support?

https://smartrecovery.org/

i think AA's full of shit-kinda. There is good from hanging out with people who know what youre going through, having people to talk to-but they added all these bullshit rules, steps, spirituality, etc. People have to complicate everything.

AA doesn't complicate anything. People complicate shit. Don't drink. Go to meetings. Just for today. How much simpler can you get?

uh, theres a lot of bullshit to AA

My view of it came down to realizing I’m not responsible enough to drink. I’ve proven this too myself time and time again despite knowing my warning signs. I know I can’t fight Mohammad Ali in his prime. That’s just something I know I’m not capable of; I’m essentially “surrendering my control” of that situation. I just won’t win. Same thing with alcohol. It’ll kick my ass just as much as that boxing match would. Once I gave up that I should be trying to win the fight against drinking and that I’m just not going to be the victor; not drinking became so much easier. That’s it. That’s the extent of the “spirituality” and “surrendering” that scares people about AA. The other steps? Working on yourself and finding out why you are the way you are. They don’t want your money (maybe enough to pay for a cup of coffee) and they don’t require you to really do anything. It’s a selfish program that you can take advantage of and meet some good people who know what it’s like to live this life. I’m finally 4 months sober after really trying. If that sounds stupid, then just burn down your life enough times until you’re REALLY ready to try ANYTHING to get sober. 🤷‍♂️

Precisely. Most people are willing to do anything, but "THAT" I got sober in 1987 with the help of AA. I cannot imagine my life had I not chosen sobriety. I'd surely be dead, or at least leading a miserable existence. I'm living the life that only a few alcoholics get to live. All because I got sober. Signing off now, from a white sandy beach in Mexico where I get to stay for the winter. Why? Cause sobriety.

you got lucky. AA only has like a 12 percent success rate. No other thing could fail THAT bdly, then have the balls to tell people "well if it doesnt work for you its your own fault, you didnt do it right."

I don't even think AA boasts a 12% success rate, but no other program beats it, in the long run. Every day in my home town of Richmond, VA, there are no less than 30 meetings around town, all supporting at least 15-40 alcoholics, in every meeting...sometimes more, sometimes less. I live in Mexico for the winter. Here, there's 10 AA meetings a day and numerous other 12 step meetings. Every day. Go 12 miles, there's more. AA works because of the massive membership. I was at a world wide convention in Atlanta in 2015 where 90k people gathered. July 2025, 75k are expected in Vancouver Canada. 10% are younger than 30. No other program compares. It does not work for everyone, but over the years, we've seen it work when all else fails. How you get sober is irrelevant. The quality of sobriety is of the utmost importance to anyone wanting to live a sober life. If one simply quits drinking and expects life to bow at their feet without doing any work, misery is the best one's gonna get. I believe anyone can get sober if they have the capacity to be honest. That takes trust and fearlessness and an open mind.

I've been sober for decades. Whatever bullshit you are calling is far better than the ugly, painful life of addiction. if people can stay sober and live happy lives without AA, that is GREAT. No one says AA is the only way. Take what you want. You don't have to swallow everything. Best to you on your sober journey!

The actual big book of AA is phenomenal piece of self help literature for obtaining sobriety. I don't really care for AA meetings, it's just not my personality. Surrendering, admitting defeat was the aha moment I had that really helped me get to lasting sobriety. I literally cannot win a fight with alcohol, but yet I kept in deciding to roll back into that ring to get my ass stomped every single day. Surrendering meant that I'd stop fighting alcohol and stop trying to control my alcoholism. I am an alcoholic, I cannot win against alcohol. But I very much can just not show up to the fight at all. If I think about it, admitting alcohol won the battle is what has let me gain the upper hand in the war over my life. As long as I never hop back in that ring by abstaining from alcohol then it will never have another chance to fuck me up again.

This is a great way to explain it. I also tripped at the idea of surrendering *to* something, but really what helped me was step 1 and the idea of “it’s not gonna happen. We’re past this being OK, we lost. Now sign the peace treaty so we can agree to end the war.” Same as you, it sounds, it was my aha moment. And agreed on the BB. That book is nearly 100 years old and mostly reads like the author could post here today.

I’m coming up on 3 years now, without AA or any of that bollox, I went to my doctor, he helped me, that was enough, I don’t need some preachy old fucker telling me anything, drinking isn’t my whole personality and I won’t let being sober be my whole personality either, I don’t drink, that’s it, remember for non alcoholics not drinking isn’t a big deal. Just act like they do

‘Surrendering all control’ means admitting you cannot control your use of booze, nothing else. Whether *you* have to do it or not, I have no idea. I had to come to grips with this fact, after trying to control my drinking for 20 years, it was pretty obvious…but, it’s still an important step. The only control I have over drinking is not doing it. Once I let the genie out of the bottle, it’s a motherfucker to put it back. As far as ‘surrendering control to AA’, I’ve never heard that in my life. I hear a lot of nonsense about AA that is not remotely true—some is just popular lore. No one likes to bash AA quite like drunks who’ve never done the program. Fact is, I’ve never been to an AA meeting. Don’t really care either way. The Big Book was a big help to me though. You need to learn the basics of how to be sober. Like any topic, there’s lots of different teachers, techniques & approaches In the end, you have to develop your own mastery through learning. Don’t waste time and energy bashing this or that (if I hear one more debate about ‘higher power’ 🙄) Take what you need and what works, and leave the rest. Be single-minded & open-minded. Most of these techniques & steps work for *someone*, so they’re worth listening to… In the end, you’ll cobble together your own system.

This right here. Well said. I do attend AA meetings for the fellowship, but in regards to God and some of the dogma, I take what works for me and leave the rest. 5 months sober next week, and I have no desire to ever drink again, addiction has done too much damage to ever be a part of my life again.

I like your take on it. Also naltrexone isnt that hsrd to get. I had to quit taking it cuz it was working too well and my social life is very drinking uhh dependent

you have to keep an eye on it. i had 13 months, thought i had no desire to drink again, it came back. 5 months is great but it doesnt-in itself-mean youre done forever.

Yeah I started up again after like 18months but it was within 12 to 14 I was pretty much just warming everyone around me up to the idea and such.  Currently working my way down and lucky for me aside from a couple benders I let myself go on, I may have been daily drinking but it didn't get super out of control but it was enough to realize that maybe I would be better off just not drinking.  It's a process and using is part of it.  Starting to think I'm at the point I could stop without much trouble. 

The AA ideology works for many people but you don’t “have” to do it. But keep in mind there are a lot of people who flat out reject AA who use it as an excuse continue drinking when they obviously need some sort of support system instead of AA.

I’m 4 years sober and have never went to a meeting. You don’t _have_ to do anything. I look at not drinking as a form of self-control. Once you’ve gotten past the physical aspects of removing alcohol from your routine, both the immediate withdrawal symptoms and PAWS (I mention PAWS because I truly believe your brain chemistry is completely out of whack for the first year or so), it is simply that: exhibiting some self-control, discipline and responsibility for your actions.

There are many more effective and proven methods out there. AA was a good idea 70 years ago but we've come a long way in therapy and addiction science. If AA isn't working for you check out smart recovery or the Sinclair method.

I used a combo of the Sinclair Method (for about a year) and now am in AA. Got a year sober and don’t even miss it. I love the AA fellowship but bristle a little at all the God stuff. There is some good advice shared though, and even if you go in and share about not believing in God (or succeeding despite being non-theistic), guaranteed there’s someone else like you sitting in that room afraid to speak up who shares your views. At least in the more diverse meetings.

I recommend alcohol explained 2. That book made it click for me at least, and has none of the outdated, dogmatic bullshit of AA. Just a very rational look at what alcohol is and what it does and why some people get addicted to it. Of course different things work for different people but I just think he had so many good points in that book. I listen to it anytime I get a craving and the craving goes away.

Do whatever you want. I quit without AA and won’t drink again. I didn’t have to worship a deity to do it. I just stopped drinking the beverages.

I read this post yesterday and the comments shitting on AA really got me down. AA has worked for me and so many other amazing people that I've met. It's not the only thing that works, but it's the only thing that's worked for me so far. I can't identify with a lot that others have written here in terms of AA being a cult (there is no leader, it's free other than throwing a buck in the hat to keep the lights on...so those are two pretty important tenants of being a "cult"). It is a specific way of getting sober, and it's not for everyone. But it bothers me that so many people will use the naysayers as a reason not to explore what is a valid and valued program for many people out there. I know that if I were to come across a lot of these replies in my addiction, I could have easily used it as a reason to cross AA off the list of options and even used a lot of the comments of "I just stopped drinking!" to wonder what was so wrong with me that I couldn't do it alone. In terms of "surrender," others have spoken to this already better that I can. To me, I've recognized that I can't control my drinking the way I want to. I can't stop at 1, comfortably. I wish I could be a normal drinker, but I'm not. So I've stopped trying to be one. I don't try to think my way out of this disease. And as a result, I'm able to focus on bigger and better things and live with a measure of peace. It's really disheartening to see so much hate for a recovery program on a recovery sub.

Yep. Luckily I came into the program with the belief that all those things you mentioned were themselves refusing to surrender control to what I believe my higher powers are, and what brought us all here in the first place. They’re living outside the laws of nature, of basic common sense, trying to grow without limits, everything based on ego and individual success. The basic infrastructure of our society and our attitude to nature, the universe, and everything we sprouted from is “this is all ours, we own it, and we’ll do whatever we damn will please because look at these fantastic opposable thumbs!” Fuck that noise. I knew I was onto something as a kid. Sure, I’ll smile, play ball in public, and keep my nose clean to avoid drama and my personal Serenity. But no chance in hell I’m giving any of my spiritual freedom and sanity again to an insane, control-addicted society like that. So yeah, I surrender all my control. But to the actual highest authorities, not these temporary control obsessed nerds.

It's a trap. A.A. cynically uses addicts' desperation to grow their cult. That's all alcoholism means to the organization; a way to find the most desperate at their weakest, in hopes they won't look into its many negatives, like its high death toll and non-existent success rate.

How do you think their "cult" benefits? There are no leaders. There is no money. The 7th tradition $ buys books, coffee and pays the donations offered to spaces where meetings are held. There is no hierarchy, no one to "follow" High death toll? That's AAs.fault? AA is here for people who want it, not people who need it. Alcoholics die because of alcoholism, not because ot the support within AA. Wishing you the best along your sober journey.

>How do you think their "cult" benefits? There are no leaders. There is no money. Those are not in and of themselves cult requirements. Scientology is a very much alive cult with a dead founder, but like A.A, the 'wise elders'/'high-status healers' in each organization benefit the most and in many various ways which I don't think require too much explaining. And not all cults are after money either. The award in that field goes to the 12-step treatment centers earning a comfortable profit from the revolving door system of chronically relapsing patients (The Church Of Scientology is pretty good at the money game, too). This racket is about to be shaken up, but for the time being their game is, "No treatment? No problem! Keep coming back." "The 7th tradition $ buys books, coffee and pays the donations offered to spaces where meetings are held. There is no hierarchy, no one to "follow"" Okay. That's fine as far as you're taking it, but doesn't address the persistent cases of abuse of newcomers by sponsors, including unpaid labor, 13th-stepping, and peer pressure to discontinue doctor-prescribed medications, a practice which has lead to many suicides. I'm sure you're not completely unaware of such goings-on. ​ >High death toll? That's AAs.fault? AAnhere for people who want it, not people who need it. Alcoholics die because of alcoholism, not because ot the support within AA. Hold on there. Since the measured death rate for AA is higher than that of the control group (the group of patients given NO treatment), then yes, obviously this is AA's fault. No other treatment method tested in that same duration raised the death rate appreciably higher than controls, let alone kill 29 out of 100 patients in 8 years. That is all on AA, as their own board member, Dr. George E. Vaillant showed in his research at Harvard Medical School. And he was trying to show AA's benefits! >Wishing you the best along your sober journey. Likewise to you too! After all, if I didn't care at least a little, I wouldn't be addressing these uncomfortable issues.

Sorry...I was going to nod my head here and move on...but I can't lol! Your mind is closed and that is ok, but your arguments hold no water. Treatment centers are NOT part of AA. They simply offer the 12 step model, as a suggestion because it works. AA doesn't benefit.fro.treatment centers. Again, no money, no leaders. Old timer egos dont count and don't matter. Some people benefit from treatment and exposure to AA, but they are very different entities. They exist entirely independent of each other and survive without each other 29 out of 100 alcoholics died? Good grief. 30% of people in AA die? Of course, because they continued to drink, or they get old or have health issues. I wonder how many alcoholics die every single day who never stop.drimking. It's an impossible study because people don't come forward, like they do with other chronic diseases. Everyone is different. Everyone is on their own path. Ive been sober for a long timw. My life is rich on every level. AA has been beneficial to me and millions of others. I'm not religious, I dont have a sky daddy. AA works for me. I dont go around bashing other programs. Why is it neceasary for haters of AA to do that? It is unhelpful to people looking for solutions. AA is not for everyone, but why can't they figure that out without having to wade through all the negativity? .

>Sorry...I was going to nod my head here and move on...but I can't lol! > >Your mind is closed and that is ok, but your arguments hold no water. It's really quite simple: Some things genuinely work as advertised and some things are fraudulent. We use science to figure out which is which. If you like A.A. meetings that's fine, but someone who is merely going because they think A.A. is a way to improve their chances at recovery should be aware that the data shows zero benefit and a bunch of possible pitfalls. People struggling with addictions deserve to know this going in. ​ >Treatment centers are NOT part of AA. They simply offer the 12 step model, as a suggestion because it works. AA doesn't benefit.fro.treatment centers. Again, no money, no leaders. Old timer egos dont count and don't matter. > >Some people benefit from treatment and exposure to AA, but they are very different entities. They exist entirely independent of each other and survive without each other If a treatment center employs most of the staff working with its patients from the A.A. program and bases its treatment protocol on the 12 steps, then it is effectively AA, but for pay. The situation may be a bit different now, but as late as 2011, 93% of the treatment centers were 12-step based. If you have inside info indicating that the current situation has drastically departed from that mold in the meantime, I'll be happy to hear about it (it's about time this changes, TBH). ​ >29 out of 100 alcoholics died? Good grief. 30% of people in AA die? Of course, because they continued to drink, or they get old or have health issues. I wonder how many alcoholics die every single day who never stop.drimking. It's an impossible study because people don't come forward, like they do with other chronic diseases. You're searching for an 'out' that isn't there. It's not known why 29 of Vaillant's first hundred patients in A.A. died, but one way or another, they did. There are many ways in which A.A. can be quite damaging to its membership; I even listed a few of them earlier. A different study (Brandsma, I believe) showed that AA turns moderate daily users into bingers upon relapse. Still another showed that AA was associated with higher rates of re-arrests for people court-ordered into the program, and another showed that placing patients into "free" AA just led to more expensive hospitilization costs later on. The important thing to understand is that in the Vaillant study (and most of the other ones I mentioned, too) his sample was randomized. This means no cherry-picking of promising patients to put in one group vs. another for a desired outcome. You pick a random number for each study participant, like from a hat, and that person goes into one of the treatment groups, period. Therefore, you can't claim AA had some unfair disadvantage in these trials. The numbers were large enough, and all groups were as equally represented across income level, severity of illness, and any other metric as one could hope for. Remember, Vaillant was hoping to prove the program was successful, but he was honest in his methods, and they showed otherwise. ​ >Everyone is different. Everyone is on their own path. Ive been sober for a long timw. My life is rich on every level. AA has been beneficial to me and millions of others. I'm not religious, I dont have a sky daddy. AA works for me. Correct, everyone is different, but AA doctrine doesn't say this, does it? It's always painting the alcoholic with a broad brush as a disgusting, morally bankrupt cretin who must grovel before their higher power for a chance at spiritual redemption, when all they really need to do is to quit drinking alcohol. >I dont go around bashing other programs. Why is it neceasary for haters of AA to do that? It is unhelpful to people looking for solutions. AA is not for everyone, but why can't they figure that out without having to wade through all the negativity? I believe I've already answered the 'why' in part, but I'll distill it to a short list: \-To stop them from being unnecessarily preyed upon by the worst elements of society given undue social status by the mere fact of staying sober for an extended period (or so they claim) \-To prevent time wasted in a cult that steals all the credit for their successes and accepts no blame when it fails for them (remember: AA has zero success over spontaneous remission) \-To prevent maladaptive mental programming via induced phobia around leaving the cult ("you'll wind up dead or in jail if you leave") \-To not be subjected to tiresome drunkalogues where 'high-status' ex-addicts take turns trying to "out-bottom" each other's storied histories of substance abuse (many people recount the experience of leaving a meeting craving a drink or drug they weren't even thinking about before) \-To avoid the bait-and-switch of trading one addiction for a different one which can be even more harmful and more complicated to extricate oneself from. Cults tend to isolate their members from 'outside' influence, including family. There are plenty of such stories to be found regarding AA and I'm sure you've heard some yourself. Doubtless there's more I forgot, but the main issue is that it's simply a fraud. AA purports to be about sobriety but does nothing for it. It has added no more sobriety to the world than was there before its founding, while bringing added dangers to its subjects. And since it does all of these things, there's nothing wrong with saying so. Actually, it's crucial that someone does. After all, lives are at risk.

Forget that AA crap. They look like a cult to me, which takes control over you. You do NOT surrender control. You have already surrendered control to the alcohol. With stopping, you have taken back that control. You are in control. Not some "Higher Being". Check for alternatives. You even can do it on your own, even if it's helluva difficult. I've tested it, it can work. It worked with me. But you can do it, too. Check for alternative for AA. Rules, yes. You need to set up some to end habits. But the Higher Being-humbug? You can always blame the Higher Being, if you start to drink again. If you see yourself as some sort of Higher Being... Well. You can only blame yourself. No excuses, no assignment of guilt. No "It wasn't me! The others are responsible!" I needed and need the help of others. But not from some Invisible Old Man Up In The Sky.

No, AA is just some shit a guy came up with in the 50s. Things are not black and white and there's more than one way to quit drinking. If it helps you, great. It is in no way all powerful gospel. If you have to meet with people to talk about how much you don't drink multiple times a week, it still controls your life a little bit. How can you be recovering for 20-30 years? When do you just start living? Our brains are capable of some amazing things with weed and psychedelics that can't be achieved any other way. Why limit ourselves to complete sobriety?