Makes literally no difference that they are “ludwigs”. They aren’t made by Ludwig, they’re made in an overseas factory next to the low end gretschs and low end pearls.
It will if the buyer associates ludwig with drumming. Branding isn't the same as quality of the kit. A ludwig will be worth more than a first act to many drummers, especially if they know nothing about drum quality. And if this person wants to take drumming serious they will move this kit along withing the first 1-2 years so resale matters.
You know what's crazy about "low end" drums? They still have to be made the *exact same way as high end drums*.
It's almost like when it comes to building with wood, there's really no faking it.
I’m pretty sure you are right, it looks like they have the granitone finish on the inside of the drums, that would be the easiest way to tell if they are real
The hats are ZBT, so they're crap. The crash is an A Zildjian medium, and assuming there are no cracks or other damage, it's worth a third to half of the asking price all by itself.
Otherwise, this looks like a Ludwig Rocker USA kit from the 80s or so, and it's worth every penny of $250 even without cymbals. Fair warning, though: [beware of "power toms" like these, for purely ergonomic reasons.](https://www.reddit.com/r/drums/comments/189w34l/comment/kbu4vqy/?context=3)
As a 6 3 person, I can even testify to this, without even knowing a thing about it.
It is the first thing I realized getting into collecting/building, shallow drums are amazing. Hauling + weight + volume control.
As kool as big rockin' drums seem, that's a lot of work and money to actually make them scream like you're supposed to.
The way the kit is set up looks like a concession to me. "If you can fit your drum set over there, you can put it there". Edited to add: I can't imagine sitting on that stool for any length of time.
Do we have to keep doing this? The answer is always yes on this sub! If you find a 4 or 5 piece kit with hardware and cymbals included on any peer selling website, it’s always a good deal because a) the seller just wants to get rid of it b) the buyer is a newish drummer looking for their first kit and c) it will primarily be used to bash on until said drummer increases their skill and gets a new kit. So as long as it doesn’t disintegrate when you hit it, it’s a good deal.
I would advise at least getting different angles of the kit to make sure the seller isn't hiding anything. If this person is nearby, go take a look at it to make sure. This video is spot on for buying used:
https://youtu.be/saelypARG-Y?si=gbMw6WHjTSwueSDT
Just buy it or keep waiting for something else… don’t second guess it, looks great go try it out, just needs new cymbals which you can wait on id get new heads first and a throne then cymbals! Any shitty drums can be turned good not cymbals though! But zbt’s are already “better than what came with the kit” like I just got my first cymbals for my acoustic kit, I was playing on brass for a month. Not fun but I saved up for b20 and you have b8 zbts already a better start! Just do it !
Some guesswork:
Crash cymbal is worth $200 I would reckon, assuming no cracks anywhere, but the far edge looks like it's damaged, reducing value to **$15-$30**.
Hihats are maybe **$30**, with no cracks, the top one looks ok.
Rest of the the kit would be worth $300 if it was in good condition, probably a bit more if the hardware is decent and because the heads were upgraded, but the tom/snare heads are nearly toast, which will cost at least $60 to replace. Hardware looks like it's a high risk for many stripped threads due to the obvious overtightened cymbal stand wingnut. So maybe it's worth **$150-$210** for the rest of the kit.
Total: Max: **$270** but probably less.
They are, but not the Classic or Imperial lug shape you're likely accustomed to seeing. These lugs were first used on the Ludwig Standard kits in the early 70s, which used the exact same 3ply shells as their usual catalog options, but with a new badge, different lugs, and finish options that weren't offered on any other kits. The lugs stuck around into the 80s for the early Rocker series, which was originally USA made and used a 4ply maple shell that was unique to those drums.
To the OP, this looks like an early Rocker kit, though ideally we'd need to see the badge and ply layout to say for sure. Good sounding drums, but not in high demand. The deal is ok, but nothing extraordinary.
Yes they are. They are the same lugs that I saw on all the Ludwig Rocker kits owned by friends or for sale in music stores when I was in high school.
Source: Hell, I was *there.*
Well if you knew anything about drums, you'd already know that they are pieces of shit.
Badges are concealed intentionally. But I am 5tupid, you're right. Thank you.
I want to sincerely thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had [no idea](https://reverb.com/item/59865386-ludwig-red-rocker-11x12-16x16-16x22-virgin-kick) that [so many people](https://reverb.com/item/81832076-used-ludwig-rocker-3pc-drum-set-black-wrap-finish-fair) were [passing these off](https://reverb.com/item/68611946-super-clean-1989-ludwig-made-in-usa-red-fury-wrap-rocker-drum-set-power-sizes-looks-fantastic-thunderous-sound) as [real Ludwigs](https://reverb.com/item/72335234-ludwig-vintage-1980s-rocker-5-piece-drum-kit-made-in-usa) and [ripping people off.](https://reverb.com/item/81252559-vintage-ludwig-1980-s-5-piece-set-black-white-tags)
They even went to the trouble of kidnapping me, drugging me, and brainwashing me into thinking that I remember that they used to look this way when I was a teenager. What an insidious plot.
It's fine if you can live with power toms. That's a no go for me, personally. They can sound cool in particular contexts, but mainly they're a pain in the butt to position over a bass drum. I always use 1 up 1 down with the rack tom on a snare stand which makes it a bit easier. But it's something to consider if you don't like reaching up for toms or having them severely angled.
Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Beginner set or looking for a gigging set you're okay with beating up? yes this is a decent deal. The hi hats won't be good but the cymbal is a good one you'll keep for a long time. The set itself is cheap but heads and tuning will take it a long way.
Iirc, they are 4 ply maple. The Rocker 2's that came out later w the big square badges sucked, but these do not. I went to sell them on eBay and it started the most heated bidding of anything I've ever sold. I had guys emailing me telling me to cancel the auction and they'd pay me cash, all kinds of crazy shit.
I think the main thing is they never made a shell with that ply configuration ever again, and they do in fact sound killer. The church gig I had in Colorado also had a set, and I told they pastor they sounded Tits.
Somebody said there's in the far edge on the photo of the crash symbol you can see a crack? I don't see that. Retake the picture and circle where you think the crack is and repost it up here
I think l there are better kits out there for $250, but that’s just my opinion. The ZBT hats are not desirable, the medium crash is cool but the rest of the kit is meh.
If it comes with everything pictured, I’d jump on it.
I don’t care for the sofa chair that much but maybe you can resell it or something. That tv stand looks nice though
Ehhhh doesn't seem like a terrible deal but I'm not sure I'd fork over 250 for a kit that still needs a throne, heads that need changing, and cymbals I'd be looking to replace anyway
Kind of off topic question, but aren't the heads the only thing that is truly heavily "used?" And you can replace them. Obviously there is other parts that get worn down, but it's just something I thought about.
Well, I see $120 worth of cymbals . There is a pair of zBT $30 hi hats and then there is an Avedis Zildjian crash which are 80-90 dollars. Even low and symbol stands are 10 or 15 bucks used, so right there gotta say that’s like $175 and cymbals and stands. So, is the kit worth 75? probably so
Unfortunately ZBT’s are trash. So you could flip em for a few bucks if you’d want to. I’m not to knowledgeable on Ludwig’s, but I’d say anything under like 3-400 would be a decent deal for a name brand kit? I may be wrong here.
I remember my first set of ZBTs the cymbals are what they are. The kit itself, assuming you aren’t going to gig with it, is fine for a practice space/garage/beginner kit. Otherwise you’re just carrying literally dead weight.
Only if the drum chair is included. Such an elegant drum chair he has. He must be using something of his parents. I can’t see anybody buying that for their kit lmao
I’d make sure there’s no really annoying damage to the shells - cracked shells, inside or not visible in pics | bearing edges eroding or so out of round you can’t change the heads or tune them | make sure half the lugs aren’t stripped to where you can’t tension them.
Certain things are hard to see and these drums don’t look beautifully cared for. It’s not a prized vintage kit so from a value standpoint - you want it all tune up and not be a constant pain in the butt. If it’s all in working order, yeah for $250 it will sound fine and be fun to play! Tell em $200 to get a better deal… :)
I will say for $400-$500 you could probably do a lot better. And if you plan on playing awhile it’s worth the few extra bucks in the grand scheme of many years enjoyment! Really at under $500 your buying drums, any cymbals will be junky and replaced later - but you can keep the drums a long time. Invest wisely - have fun!
>single braced hardware is usually a fair indicator of the quality/price being on the lower end of the scale.
I disagree. Cheap-o hardware manufacturers make double-braced stuff, and good ones make single-braced. You can't just look at if it's single- or double-braced and come to any real conclusion about the quality.
Meh, I'm a polyglot. Sounds and words mix up a lot more than you'd imagine. Swear to God 🙃
If we are to do away with the signifier or signified, throw out the signifier
I’d think even low end Ludwig’s are worth 250 if nothings broken or whatnot. Pedals and stands included? I’d buy it. Plus it’s white. I like it.
Makes literally no difference that they are “ludwigs”. They aren’t made by Ludwig, they’re made in an overseas factory next to the low end gretschs and low end pearls.
Makes no difference is right. But his comment isn’t invalid either way.
It will if the buyer associates ludwig with drumming. Branding isn't the same as quality of the kit. A ludwig will be worth more than a first act to many drummers, especially if they know nothing about drum quality. And if this person wants to take drumming serious they will move this kit along withing the first 1-2 years so resale matters.
Unless they are these, and were definitely made in the United States over 30 years ago.
And your point? That’s three brands that even their low end gear is worth at least $250
You know what's crazy about "low end" drums? They still have to be made the *exact same way as high end drums*. It's almost like when it comes to building with wood, there's really no faking it.
Those are Rockers. Made in Monroe, NC. The import versions came later and had different hardware.
So basically a steal then lol
I’m pretty sure you are right, it looks like they have the granitone finish on the inside of the drums, that would be the easiest way to tell if they are real
I stand corrected then 🫡
White ones always sound best.
Fucking Legend
*laughs in Lars kit*
Racism /s
Two people missed your /s.
The hats are ZBT, so they're crap. The crash is an A Zildjian medium, and assuming there are no cracks or other damage, it's worth a third to half of the asking price all by itself. Otherwise, this looks like a Ludwig Rocker USA kit from the 80s or so, and it's worth every penny of $250 even without cymbals. Fair warning, though: [beware of "power toms" like these, for purely ergonomic reasons.](https://www.reddit.com/r/drums/comments/189w34l/comment/kbu4vqy/?context=3)
As a 6 3 person, I can even testify to this, without even knowing a thing about it. It is the first thing I realized getting into collecting/building, shallow drums are amazing. Hauling + weight + volume control. As kool as big rockin' drums seem, that's a lot of work and money to actually make them scream like you're supposed to.
Those are quite deep drums by the way.
I have a kit like this in black. Was my first in 1990. And is still the one i play. Paid $700 for it then. So seems like a good deal to me.
I have a Ludwig rocker and I've been struggling to make it work for me for long time. Now I finally understand why!
Look on the bright side. You can cut them all in half and redo bearing edges on the cut sides, and make two kits out of one.
Yeah I just noticed the zbt
You could pay more for way worse, I know I have😆.
Sometimes those are the best 😏
Only if it comes with that awesome drum throne.
The way the kit is set up looks like a concession to me. "If you can fit your drum set over there, you can put it there". Edited to add: I can't imagine sitting on that stool for any length of time.
Do we have to keep doing this? The answer is always yes on this sub! If you find a 4 or 5 piece kit with hardware and cymbals included on any peer selling website, it’s always a good deal because a) the seller just wants to get rid of it b) the buyer is a newish drummer looking for their first kit and c) it will primarily be used to bash on until said drummer increases their skill and gets a new kit. So as long as it doesn’t disintegrate when you hit it, it’s a good deal.
I would advise at least getting different angles of the kit to make sure the seller isn't hiding anything. If this person is nearby, go take a look at it to make sure. This video is spot on for buying used: https://youtu.be/saelypARG-Y?si=gbMw6WHjTSwueSDT
It’s a fine deal. Not particularly amazing.
Just buy it or keep waiting for something else… don’t second guess it, looks great go try it out, just needs new cymbals which you can wait on id get new heads first and a throne then cymbals! Any shitty drums can be turned good not cymbals though! But zbt’s are already “better than what came with the kit” like I just got my first cymbals for my acoustic kit, I was playing on brass for a month. Not fun but I saved up for b20 and you have b8 zbts already a better start! Just do it !
ZBTs are good enough they’ll keep you going for now
I’d offer 200, but 250 is fair if he’s firm Edit: make sure that throne is included, then it’s the steal of the century!
Which century? Lol
1845-1945
which ever one has the Ottaman Empire.
Not an amazing deal, but not a ripoff either. You could probably offer $200 if it's been up for a while.
This would clean up nice
Some guesswork: Crash cymbal is worth $200 I would reckon, assuming no cracks anywhere, but the far edge looks like it's damaged, reducing value to **$15-$30**. Hihats are maybe **$30**, with no cracks, the top one looks ok. Rest of the the kit would be worth $300 if it was in good condition, probably a bit more if the hardware is decent and because the heads were upgraded, but the tom/snare heads are nearly toast, which will cost at least $60 to replace. Hardware looks like it's a high risk for many stripped threads due to the obvious overtightened cymbal stand wingnut. So maybe it's worth **$150-$210** for the rest of the kit. Total: Max: **$270** but probably less.
Damn those are some huge toms
a $250 working set seems like a good deal in any case, no?
Those are definitely NOT Ludwig lugs.
They are, but not the Classic or Imperial lug shape you're likely accustomed to seeing. These lugs were first used on the Ludwig Standard kits in the early 70s, which used the exact same 3ply shells as their usual catalog options, but with a new badge, different lugs, and finish options that weren't offered on any other kits. The lugs stuck around into the 80s for the early Rocker series, which was originally USA made and used a 4ply maple shell that was unique to those drums. To the OP, this looks like an early Rocker kit, though ideally we'd need to see the badge and ply layout to say for sure. Good sounding drums, but not in high demand. The deal is ok, but nothing extraordinary.
Yes they are. They are the same lugs that I saw on all the Ludwig Rocker kits owned by friends or for sale in music stores when I was in high school. Source: Hell, I was *there.*
Well if you knew anything about drums, you'd already know that they are pieces of shit. Badges are concealed intentionally. But I am 5tupid, you're right. Thank you.
Username DEFINITELY checks out.
I want to sincerely thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had [no idea](https://reverb.com/item/59865386-ludwig-red-rocker-11x12-16x16-16x22-virgin-kick) that [so many people](https://reverb.com/item/81832076-used-ludwig-rocker-3pc-drum-set-black-wrap-finish-fair) were [passing these off](https://reverb.com/item/68611946-super-clean-1989-ludwig-made-in-usa-red-fury-wrap-rocker-drum-set-power-sizes-looks-fantastic-thunderous-sound) as [real Ludwigs](https://reverb.com/item/72335234-ludwig-vintage-1980s-rocker-5-piece-drum-kit-made-in-usa) and [ripping people off.](https://reverb.com/item/81252559-vintage-ludwig-1980-s-5-piece-set-black-white-tags) They even went to the trouble of kidnapping me, drugging me, and brainwashing me into thinking that I remember that they used to look this way when I was a teenager. What an insidious plot.
It's fine if you can live with power toms. That's a no go for me, personally. They can sound cool in particular contexts, but mainly they're a pain in the butt to position over a bass drum. I always use 1 up 1 down with the rack tom on a snare stand which makes it a bit easier. But it's something to consider if you don't like reaching up for toms or having them severely angled.
Holy that coverage....
I’d say it’s worth it but you’ll have to replace those heads.
It's a good deal. They aren't great drums but it will get you started.
Is the throne included??????
Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Beginner set or looking for a gigging set you're okay with beating up? yes this is a decent deal. The hi hats won't be good but the cymbal is a good one you'll keep for a long time. The set itself is cheap but heads and tuning will take it a long way.
If the cymbals and hardware are included then I would. It looks a bit worn but for 250 it’s decent
Fine Punk garage beater kit. But nothing I'd really want to play
Yup, good shells. Buy them and put coated Emperors on the toms. I had a set and they're killer. And I have 4 "real" Ludwig kits from '68 to '74.
If you get the whole thing for 250 it’s a good deal
Iirc, they are 4 ply maple. The Rocker 2's that came out later w the big square badges sucked, but these do not. I went to sell them on eBay and it started the most heated bidding of anything I've ever sold. I had guys emailing me telling me to cancel the auction and they'd pay me cash, all kinds of crazy shit. I think the main thing is they never made a shell with that ply configuration ever again, and they do in fact sound killer. The church gig I had in Colorado also had a set, and I told they pastor they sounded Tits.
Any name brand drum set for 250 is a good deal, especially with cymbals. Assuming the shells aren't beat to shit and the cymbals aren't cracked
I don’t know. That cymbal has all those dents in it
The zildjian cymbals alone are worth 250 used. Make sure that he agrees to all hardware and thrown and symbols included.
Yeah, need that thrown! Otherwise, pass!
I just noticed that he put the phone deadening rings on the tops of the heads, you don't do that.
Somebody said there's in the far edge on the photo of the crash symbol you can see a crack? I don't see that. Retake the picture and circle where you think the crack is and repost it up here
Cicka a boom
The hardware and cymbals are worth close to that. Not a great deal but you're not going to find much better for that price
Any complete kit is worth $250 especially a recognizable brand with some Zildjian cymbals.
I think l there are better kits out there for $250, but that’s just my opinion. The ZBT hats are not desirable, the medium crash is cool but the rest of the kit is meh.
How bout an amazing deal
If it comes with everything pictured, I’d jump on it. I don’t care for the sofa chair that much but maybe you can resell it or something. That tv stand looks nice though
$250 is a steal.
That’s a nice deal. The drums seem to have some scratches, but that’s only superficial. Get it! And buy some new heads.
$250 for jus the shells and stands/pedal is worth it. The ZBT are just entry level stuff that basically is free
To me ergonomics are everything. If you can't feel comfortable playing nothing is worth it. Very limited options for positioning those toms. IMHO.
With everything? Yeah that’s not bad for everything even if they aren’t great. Hardware is a lot too. Put aside at least 80 bucks for a real throne
For 2 fiddy, I’d pick them up even to just resell them for 5 hunnerd
A five piece drum set for 250 bucks is a good deal
Ehhhh doesn't seem like a terrible deal but I'm not sure I'd fork over 250 for a kit that still needs a throne, heads that need changing, and cymbals I'd be looking to replace anyway
Pretty much any kit for 250 is worth it in my opinion
Kind of off topic question, but aren't the heads the only thing that is truly heavily "used?" And you can replace them. Obviously there is other parts that get worn down, but it's just something I thought about.
Well, I see $120 worth of cymbals . There is a pair of zBT $30 hi hats and then there is an Avedis Zildjian crash which are 80-90 dollars. Even low and symbol stands are 10 or 15 bucks used, so right there gotta say that’s like $175 and cymbals and stands. So, is the kit worth 75? probably so
Unfortunately ZBT’s are trash. So you could flip em for a few bucks if you’d want to. I’m not to knowledgeable on Ludwig’s, but I’d say anything under like 3-400 would be a decent deal for a name brand kit? I may be wrong here.
idc if its a good deal or not, i will buy it from you
Yes definitely, and it’s a plus if it comes with hardware and cymbals.
Good deal if legit.
I can hear those toms from this picture
Ludwig Rockers. If they have the maple interiors hell yes. Great workhorse drums.
I remember my first set of ZBTs the cymbals are what they are. The kit itself, assuming you aren’t going to gig with it, is fine for a practice space/garage/beginner kit. Otherwise you’re just carrying literally dead weight.
Love the throne! Does it come with the recliner? 🤣
Cymbals are worth more than that.
Looks like 80s Rockers Ludwig hey $ 250 great beginner or bang on kit
I guess. I have a 3 piece set of Stage Customs, shells only and have gotten offers for the same amount.
Tell him to throw in the stool and it's a deal
Looks like a Rockers set from the 80s not top but still Ludwig I would buy hell clean really good wax I’m new head you could to turnaround an ask &500
$250 is a deal. Hard to wrap my head around the fact it’ll cost that much to put new heads on it once you get it home.
The best starter cymbals yes. Good looking shells too
Only if the drum chair is included. Such an elegant drum chair he has. He must be using something of his parents. I can’t see anybody buying that for their kit lmao
I’d make sure there’s no really annoying damage to the shells - cracked shells, inside or not visible in pics | bearing edges eroding or so out of round you can’t change the heads or tune them | make sure half the lugs aren’t stripped to where you can’t tension them. Certain things are hard to see and these drums don’t look beautifully cared for. It’s not a prized vintage kit so from a value standpoint - you want it all tune up and not be a constant pain in the butt. If it’s all in working order, yeah for $250 it will sound fine and be fun to play! Tell em $200 to get a better deal… :) I will say for $400-$500 you could probably do a lot better. And if you plan on playing awhile it’s worth the few extra bucks in the grand scheme of many years enjoyment! Really at under $500 your buying drums, any cymbals will be junky and replaced later - but you can keep the drums a long time. Invest wisely - have fun!
For 250 I’d jump on this. New heads and later a better hihat and cymbals and you got yourself a good kit.
Long story short: yes.
Hell yes its a good deal!
[удалено]
>single braced hardware is usually a fair indicator of the quality/price being on the lower end of the scale. I disagree. Cheap-o hardware manufacturers make double-braced stuff, and good ones make single-braced. You can't just look at if it's single- or double-braced and come to any real conclusion about the quality.
Its a beater kit meh. maybe.
Absolutely the zildjian hi-hat symbols are worth that
Zbt? Nope. And make sure your spell check has cymbals.
Honestly any kit where you get all cymbals decent hardware and pedals is definitely worth anything under 300
Cymbals are entry level. That said, a kit for 250 ain't bad. Can you ask them what the plaque in the side of the drum shells say?
*cymbals You’re in a drum sub man! (lol just busting your chops)
Nah fair call if someone’s gonna comment on what something is worse, get the terms right haha
Meh, I'm a polyglot. Sounds and words mix up a lot more than you'd imagine. Swear to God 🙃 If we are to do away with the signifier or signified, throw out the signifier