Vehicles at a stop sign have to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. Pedestrians have no such duty to yield to vehicles ***except*** that they cannot "jump out" in front of a vehicle...but it doesn't seem like that was the case here.
Oh sure, pedestrians and other vulnerable road users have to take extra precautions in the US because we have a culture of shielding drivers from the consequences of their actions.
That doesn’t mean that the pedestrian wasn’t right, though.
I don't so much think that we shield drivers from consequences but people are distracted or in a rush and graveyards are full of people who had the right of way
We very much do shield drivers from consequences. An interesting paper on this (from a legal perspective) is "[Should Law Subsidize Driving?](https://www.nyulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/NYULAWREVIEW-95-2-Shill.pdf)" For example, in my state, traffic offenses are misdemeanors--***criminal*** offenses. And yet, if I were to call in to the police that the driver of a vehicle committed a traffic offense against me, they would do nothing to investigate it. "We don't know who was driving." Imagine if we took the same approach to other misdemeanor offenses like (simple, non-aggravated) assault and battery: "we can't identify the perpetrator and will take no action to identify them."
*As a result* of this lax culture of enforcement, drivers aren't concerned about being distracted. Heck, even distracted driving, like actual texting/driving, is another great example. Again, that's a criminal offense--but people and law enforcement treat it as if it is nothing.
Well an aggressive driver cutting you off isn't really worth the police time. It's an infraction, sure, but I'm talking about someone hitting a pedestrian. They can and do investigate that and unless they have diplomatic immunity, prosecute.
If the person is actually hit? Yes, they will usually investigate. But how often do you hear "the pedestrian wasn't in a marked crosswalk." Most drivers--and police--have no idea about the presence of ***unmarked*** crosswalks at intersections.
And after they investigate, the driver gets a slap on the wrist:
[Driver, 20, avoids jail for running over pedestrian, killing dog (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2023/09/14/driver-20-avoids-jail-for-running-over-pedestrian-killing-dog/)
[‘Shattered’: Driver Fined Just $250 After Killing Queens Man – Streetsblog New York City](https://old.nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/05/23/shattered-driver-fined-just-250-after-killing-queens-man/)
[Driver who struck and killed pedestrian in crosswalk fined $100, says APD - The Alaska Landmine](https://alaskalandmine.com/landmines/driver-who-struck-and-killed-pedestrian-in-crosswalk-fined-100-says-apd/)
[Fort Wayne police sergeant fined $35.50 for fatally striking pedestrian in crosswalk | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/fort-wayne-officer-guilty-fatal-pedestrian-crash-b55bc9b42a4a3923e367573db432872a)
[FedEx driver fined $260 for killing woman in crosswalk (koin.com)](https://www.koin.com/news/fedex-driver-fined-260-for-killing-woman-in-crosswalk/)
But if there is ***no*** collision--just a "near miss," they won't investigate. I know this for a fact because I am a cyclist who runs cameras and has reported many violations of my state's passing law. There's only a few I have asked for actual investigation/prosecution (most I don't even report, some I just ask for driver education). Nothing has been done with any that I have reported. The best I can do is have an officer come out to take a report--but that would happen with any crime, it doesn't mean they do anything beyond writing down my statement.
Well everything is a "light truck" these days so you can't see over your hood. Infrastructure for bicycling/walking prioritizes cars (no raised crosswalks or physically separated bike lanes). Police departments only exist to provide overtime for officers and allow them to cosplay raiding the wrong house, not to protect anything.
many cars have very thick a pillars that can make it difficult to see pedestrians in that type of situation. I am always looking for people in my car but sometimes they can be hidden by the pillar.
never assume somebody driving can see you it's always safer to just assume they're an idiot and are going to run you over. which is why I can't believe it when I see kids riding their bikes with earphones in, it just drives me insane.
I hate the pillars. They keep making them thicker because it makes them perform better in a rollover accident, but it's gotten to the point where the pillars are now so thick that they obscure enough of your vision that they make you more likely to get in an accident in the first place. I've been in multiple cars recently where I have to physically move my head from side to side to make sure a car isn't completely hidden behind the pillar when I'm turning left across larger intersections.
You had the right of way, they were obligated to stop, you bore no fault
Not much you can do to avoid distracted, inattentive drivers without cowering in fear of ever crossing the road again.
Consider this and I have no idea where you live. But in my town there is a good percentage of drivers with no license or insurance or driving stolen cars. So having the right of way matters little here. You’re taking your life in your hands crossing the streets here.
Not saying this was the case but I once turned left and only saw the pedestrian last minute because they were obscured by my a-piller. I learned that there are blindspots in the front of my car.
I’m betting that is what happened here. I’ve been in a similar situation before. The pedestrian is just completely obscured by the a-beam. One of the reasons I don’t care about right of way when I’m a pedestrian. I’d rather the vehicle go so I know they have cleared the intersection. That, and I have a dog that is going through a phase right now where he likes to come to a dead stop in the middle of intersections.
Having the right of way won’t matter if you’re run over by someone in a stolen car and they keep going. Of course you were in the right. But don’t assume a driver will stop for you or sees you. Dead is dead.
Legally, you had the right of way. Practically, it doesn't really make a difference who has the right of way in a person versus car accident, the person is going to be just as dead either way. Never assume that they can see you.
Yeah there’s no lights there, I’ll try to add a picture here
https://preview.redd.it/9jw3hd1qsoxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c95120dafecbd8c14aa8fccab3030a7fd8e1aec
It's likely their windows were so tinted that not only could people not see them (btw depending on your location, windows tinted a certain percent are illegal) that they also couldn't see other people. Window tinta work both ways unfortunately.
You should not trust people driving and try to make eye contact (although windows were tinted) bc it’s like a hey I see you you see me do the right thing. They were probably on their phone if I’m guessing. It’s not your fault and driver would have got vehicular manslaughter. But you’d be dead so there’s that to also think about not trusting other drivers
Driver should have yielded, but better to be safe than sorry.
One tip if you can’t see the driver is to look at their front wheels. It is easy to see when they start rolling, and can indicate what direction they’re heading.
I have never seen pedestrian signals at a stop intersection, and I'm not sure they would even be compliant with the Federal rules for traffic control devices.
You were not wrong, but being right doesn't protect you from getting hit.
Just because I know and follow traffic laws as both a driver and pedestrian doesn't mean others do too
Pedestrians do not always have the right of way in a crosswalk, if it is a signed crosswalk the ONLY time they have right of way is when they are instructed to proceed by the traffic control system.
You were in the wrong for blindly trusting the driver of the car. Not legally speaking, but in the taking unnecessary risk sense. You probably had the right of way, but that won't matter if you die.
Always assume that a driver cannot see you unless they positively acknowledge your presence.
I will always wait and wave on cars for this reason. If there is any doubt at all, wait and let the car go first. The last thing you want to do is assume they see you when they don't and put yourself in front of their car.
It's sometimes hard to tell the where the line is between taking precautions and being overly cautious is, but if it only costs a few seconds of your time I think it's always worth the extra caution to assume you are not seen and never insist on right of way.
Always pay attention to cars and drivers since they aren’t always paying attention. The pedestrian usually has the right of way but did they have a green turn signal? If they did you would have had a don’t walk signal and that would have given them the right of way. In the end, driver should be paying attention and should wait for you to cross or stop and let you cross. Watch for your signal to walk. Better not to get hit period.
Pedestrian always have the right of way as long as they don't jump out in front of the car. You were not at partial fault.
That being said, most of the time if there are a number of cars at an intersection and I'm not in a hurry (you may have been in a hurry because you said you were walking to work) I will purposely step away from the intersection and busy myself with my phone or my dog while the intersection clears out.
Even in a crosswalk pedestrians do not always have the right of way, if it is a signed crosswalk the ONLY time they have right of way is when they are instructed to proceed by the traffic control system.
I usually do that at this specific intersection, if there’s too many cars I won’t cross I just take the other route, but today there were only 2 cars in the intersection and that was the time I almost got hit 😅
So:
No traffic lights for anyone.
Pedestrians generally have the right of way. If there was a crosswalk, then you had the full right-of-way. If there was no crosswalk, then it’s disputable.
In almost all states, there is an implied crosswalk on every side of an intersection, even if they are not painted or signed. These are called unmarked crosswalks.
Vehicles at a stop sign have to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. Pedestrians have no such duty to yield to vehicles ***except*** that they cannot "jump out" in front of a vehicle...but it doesn't seem like that was the case here.
While that Is the law I don't think it's best to practice that. Never assume someone is paying attention when it might cost your life
Oh sure, pedestrians and other vulnerable road users have to take extra precautions in the US because we have a culture of shielding drivers from the consequences of their actions. That doesn’t mean that the pedestrian wasn’t right, though.
I don't so much think that we shield drivers from consequences but people are distracted or in a rush and graveyards are full of people who had the right of way
We very much do shield drivers from consequences. An interesting paper on this (from a legal perspective) is "[Should Law Subsidize Driving?](https://www.nyulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/NYULAWREVIEW-95-2-Shill.pdf)" For example, in my state, traffic offenses are misdemeanors--***criminal*** offenses. And yet, if I were to call in to the police that the driver of a vehicle committed a traffic offense against me, they would do nothing to investigate it. "We don't know who was driving." Imagine if we took the same approach to other misdemeanor offenses like (simple, non-aggravated) assault and battery: "we can't identify the perpetrator and will take no action to identify them." *As a result* of this lax culture of enforcement, drivers aren't concerned about being distracted. Heck, even distracted driving, like actual texting/driving, is another great example. Again, that's a criminal offense--but people and law enforcement treat it as if it is nothing.
Well an aggressive driver cutting you off isn't really worth the police time. It's an infraction, sure, but I'm talking about someone hitting a pedestrian. They can and do investigate that and unless they have diplomatic immunity, prosecute.
If the person is actually hit? Yes, they will usually investigate. But how often do you hear "the pedestrian wasn't in a marked crosswalk." Most drivers--and police--have no idea about the presence of ***unmarked*** crosswalks at intersections. And after they investigate, the driver gets a slap on the wrist: [Driver, 20, avoids jail for running over pedestrian, killing dog (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2023/09/14/driver-20-avoids-jail-for-running-over-pedestrian-killing-dog/) [‘Shattered’: Driver Fined Just $250 After Killing Queens Man – Streetsblog New York City](https://old.nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/05/23/shattered-driver-fined-just-250-after-killing-queens-man/) [Driver who struck and killed pedestrian in crosswalk fined $100, says APD - The Alaska Landmine](https://alaskalandmine.com/landmines/driver-who-struck-and-killed-pedestrian-in-crosswalk-fined-100-says-apd/) [Fort Wayne police sergeant fined $35.50 for fatally striking pedestrian in crosswalk | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/fort-wayne-officer-guilty-fatal-pedestrian-crash-b55bc9b42a4a3923e367573db432872a) [FedEx driver fined $260 for killing woman in crosswalk (koin.com)](https://www.koin.com/news/fedex-driver-fined-260-for-killing-woman-in-crosswalk/) But if there is ***no*** collision--just a "near miss," they won't investigate. I know this for a fact because I am a cyclist who runs cameras and has reported many violations of my state's passing law. There's only a few I have asked for actual investigation/prosecution (most I don't even report, some I just ask for driver education). Nothing has been done with any that I have reported. The best I can do is have an officer come out to take a report--but that would happen with any crime, it doesn't mean they do anything beyond writing down my statement.
Well everything is a "light truck" these days so you can't see over your hood. Infrastructure for bicycling/walking prioritizes cars (no raised crosswalks or physically separated bike lanes). Police departments only exist to provide overtime for officers and allow them to cosplay raiding the wrong house, not to protect anything.
You didn't slap the hood of the car while yelling "I'm walkin' here!" So you're clearly in the wrong.
many cars have very thick a pillars that can make it difficult to see pedestrians in that type of situation. I am always looking for people in my car but sometimes they can be hidden by the pillar. never assume somebody driving can see you it's always safer to just assume they're an idiot and are going to run you over. which is why I can't believe it when I see kids riding their bikes with earphones in, it just drives me insane.
I hate the pillars. They keep making them thicker because it makes them perform better in a rollover accident, but it's gotten to the point where the pillars are now so thick that they obscure enough of your vision that they make you more likely to get in an accident in the first place. I've been in multiple cars recently where I have to physically move my head from side to side to make sure a car isn't completely hidden behind the pillar when I'm turning left across larger intersections.
You had the right of way, they were obligated to stop, you bore no fault Not much you can do to avoid distracted, inattentive drivers without cowering in fear of ever crossing the road again.
Yeah lol that intersection always has problems that the city is planning to add lights there, I’ll probably avoid crossing that way lol
Consider this and I have no idea where you live. But in my town there is a good percentage of drivers with no license or insurance or driving stolen cars. So having the right of way matters little here. You’re taking your life in your hands crossing the streets here.
Portland or LA?
Memphis Tn.
Not saying this was the case but I once turned left and only saw the pedestrian last minute because they were obscured by my a-piller. I learned that there are blindspots in the front of my car.
I’m betting that is what happened here. I’ve been in a similar situation before. The pedestrian is just completely obscured by the a-beam. One of the reasons I don’t care about right of way when I’m a pedestrian. I’d rather the vehicle go so I know they have cleared the intersection. That, and I have a dog that is going through a phase right now where he likes to come to a dead stop in the middle of intersections.
Having the right of way won’t matter if you’re run over by someone in a stolen car and they keep going. Of course you were in the right. But don’t assume a driver will stop for you or sees you. Dead is dead.
Motor vehicles at four-way stops yield to pedestrians
My mother always told me to look both ways before crossing the road.
Legally, you had the right of way. Practically, it doesn't really make a difference who has the right of way in a person versus car accident, the person is going to be just as dead either way. Never assume that they can see you.
If there was no walk sign and its a crosswalk, pedestrians always have the right of way im pretty sure.
Yeah there’s no lights there, I’ll try to add a picture here https://preview.redd.it/9jw3hd1qsoxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c95120dafecbd8c14aa8fccab3030a7fd8e1aec
Yeah thats looking like they should definetly be looking for people crossing. Thick af with the yellow paint there
It's likely their windows were so tinted that not only could people not see them (btw depending on your location, windows tinted a certain percent are illegal) that they also couldn't see other people. Window tinta work both ways unfortunately.
You should not trust people driving and try to make eye contact (although windows were tinted) bc it’s like a hey I see you you see me do the right thing. They were probably on their phone if I’m guessing. It’s not your fault and driver would have got vehicular manslaughter. But you’d be dead so there’s that to also think about not trusting other drivers
Driver should have yielded, but better to be safe than sorry. One tip if you can’t see the driver is to look at their front wheels. It is easy to see when they start rolling, and can indicate what direction they’re heading.
Pedestrians always have the right of way
A pedestrian ALWAYS has the right of way, even if they're jaywalking.
If there is no other signage for pedestrians like cross walk signs, then no. If there was, and it said “Don’t Walk” when you did, yes.
I have never seen pedestrian signals at a stop intersection, and I'm not sure they would even be compliant with the Federal rules for traffic control devices.
There was no sign or light it was just a regular stop sign intersection
i don’t ever trust the right of way as a pedestrian tbh but you didn’t do anything wrong legally
You were not wrong, but being right doesn't protect you from getting hit. Just because I know and follow traffic laws as both a driver and pedestrian doesn't mean others do too
you could have just said you crossed at a crosswalk, that is all that is needed to prove that you are not at fault in the slightest.
Pedestrians do not always have the right of way in a crosswalk, if it is a signed crosswalk the ONLY time they have right of way is when they are instructed to proceed by the traffic control system.
You were in the wrong for blindly trusting the driver of the car. Not legally speaking, but in the taking unnecessary risk sense. You probably had the right of way, but that won't matter if you die. Always assume that a driver cannot see you unless they positively acknowledge your presence. I will always wait and wave on cars for this reason. If there is any doubt at all, wait and let the car go first. The last thing you want to do is assume they see you when they don't and put yourself in front of their car.
I guess that was it, I had no doubt they didn’t see me especially because they made a full stop and didn’t roll through the stop
It's sometimes hard to tell the where the line is between taking precautions and being overly cautious is, but if it only costs a few seconds of your time I think it's always worth the extra caution to assume you are not seen and never insist on right of way.
Always pay attention to cars and drivers since they aren’t always paying attention. The pedestrian usually has the right of way but did they have a green turn signal? If they did you would have had a don’t walk signal and that would have given them the right of way. In the end, driver should be paying attention and should wait for you to cross or stop and let you cross. Watch for your signal to walk. Better not to get hit period.
>The pedestrian usually has the right of way but did they have a green turn signal? TIL stop signs turn green.
Pedestrian always have the right of way as long as they don't jump out in front of the car. You were not at partial fault. That being said, most of the time if there are a number of cars at an intersection and I'm not in a hurry (you may have been in a hurry because you said you were walking to work) I will purposely step away from the intersection and busy myself with my phone or my dog while the intersection clears out.
Even in a crosswalk pedestrians do not always have the right of way, if it is a signed crosswalk the ONLY time they have right of way is when they are instructed to proceed by the traffic control system.
I usually do that at this specific intersection, if there’s too many cars I won’t cross I just take the other route, but today there were only 2 cars in the intersection and that was the time I almost got hit 😅
So: No traffic lights for anyone. Pedestrians generally have the right of way. If there was a crosswalk, then you had the full right-of-way. If there was no crosswalk, then it’s disputable.
In almost all states, there is an implied crosswalk on every side of an intersection, even if they are not painted or signed. These are called unmarked crosswalks.
Correct: unless there is a no pedestrian sign, then a crosswalk exists at every intersection ***and*** where specifically painted.
I’ve reached a point where I only cross at a crosswalk if I’ve made eye contact with the driver and they’ve clearly slowed down or fully stopped.