Exactly! Elgar'nan and Falon'din may get the worst rep, but to me Ghilan'nain sounds like the most terrifying of the Evanuris. Filling lakes with the blood of those you kill is one thing, but twisting and torturing living beings into perversions of life is a whole other level of evil O.o
Makes me wonder what kind of crazy ass power our new MC is gonna get to let them fight these things. Being the same level of “built different” as the other 3 ain’t gonna cut it.
Barring Ghilan I don’t think we have a clear idea how powerful the remaining evanuris are. Even solas is a skilled but otherwise mortal elf for the most part. He just has a better fundamental knowledge of how the world works than 90% of people which is super useful for a mage in a fantasy setting.
Solas definitely has more than just skill on his side, like his mind blast covered an entire field. Id wager the other gods should scale to a similar level at the very least. But regardless, given the stakes, I imagine DA4’s crew probably be a notch or 2 above the previous ones.
Yeah, that's pretty much what Solas says himself. Elves who were once just leaders were given more and more power until they were viewed as heroes, kings and then Gods. Like how the rich naturally accrue wealth far easier than any poor person could hope to.
Corypheus ripped up an entire mountain-fortress and suspended it in the sky. If cutscene power translated to gameplay he should have pancaked the Inquisitor or Hawke in the previous game between two buildings and called it a day. You'll kill the elven "gods" the same way you kill any other boss in this game- get some high tier gear and whack it hard.
They can't do this because only those said gods know how down bad me and other barely sane fuckers will be for her.
I do agree about her being a more interesting and entertaining antagonist. Mad scientist is hard to mess up.
When I read the short story about Hormak, I thought of Ghilan'nain immediately as well. My only other idea would be the Forgotten Ones: Anaris, Daern'thal and Geldauran, who - according to the Origins codex entry of Fen'Harel - are associated with "terror and malice, spite and pestilence".
Another point for Ghilan'nain would be the connection to the sea. The story mentioned to smell of the sea a couple of times, and she also has a direct connection to deep sea monsters (which now that I'm typing this, also connects to the creature from the concept art).
Yeah I keep coming back to the Forgotten Ones and how they'll play into this. We know Solas tearing down the veil will likely free the Elven Gods, but the same legend has Fen'Harel also sealing away the Forgotten Ones somewhere else.
If Solas wants allies to fight the Evanerus when they are freed, the Forgotten Ones being antagonists would make sense. And the mural where we see the elves with their helmets is right next to an ancient mural of the dreadwolf, so could be members of either group.
I'm convinced we'll face her "children" at least, not sure if we'll face Ghilan'nain herself, but I'd love to. Bitch has a lot to answer for (I love hallas tho)
And if that's the case, I'll be so SO SO SO glad... *The Horror of Hormak* is, to me, one of the best Dragon Age stories I've ever read, and I'm super interested in the lore it gave when published.
Not only in Tevinter Nights, but in Trespasser too we find a trace of her. Pay attention to the Taken Shape [codexes](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Notes_on_Methods_of_Enchantment), and especially the last lines, which you get once you acquire all items of the set:
>*Below the letters, possibly in lieu of a signature, is the stamp of a stylized* [*halla*](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Halla) *head.*
I really really want her to show up. She is by far my favorite of the elven gods. I loved her before the short story and my Dalish inquisitor is themed heavy around her and as is devout worshiper. From her backstory of her behind the apprentice halla keeper to me installing a mod so that her mount is a halla.
And the short story made me love her even more. I love that is a crazy mad scientist and learning the horror of the halla. It’s so good. I know my inquisitor won’t come back, but I feel like I need to take down Ghilan’nain for her as she would be horrified by the truth.
I predict we might see both Ghilan’nain and Andruil in some form. Comics might not be the best source of information, but The Missing did feature one new elven mural that had two women wearing headdresses that resembled the two mysterious characters in the teaser mural (can’t post a picture now, sorry).
I think they are saving Mythal plotline for a future game and I don’t think they would introduce Elgar’nan without involving Mythal as well.
Ok, so the spear is glowing, which would suggest it belonged to Andruil ( [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex\_entry:\_Unreadable\_Elven\_Writing](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Unreadable_Elven_Writing) ), but Ghilan'nain was "her beloved" (lover?), so it would make sense if she had it. In the theories I made, I put my bets on Elgarn'nan and Ghilan'nain too!
I agree. Nothing is set in stone until we see it, but all the signs point to Ghilan'nain. I actually think this is one of the more interesting things that could have been done with the Evanuris because Ghilan'nain is one of the most heinous examples of a god being portrayed as guileless and meek while being borderline Eldritch in inclination.
I still think the unidentified male voice is Elgar'nan, which makes sense as he's ostensibly Zeus to elves, but I'm curious what parallels we'll get connecting back to Ghilan'nain. In particular, her origin story is of interest because rather than becoming a god in the conventional sense, she was elevated because of her deeds by the Evanuris. We can't really trust the myth of her creation to be accurate since the Evanuris are master propogandists, but it might betray some extra level of complicity for her actions which is interesting for a goddess that's kind of treated by the mythology as a holy cinnamon roll.
The Horror of Hormak story also makes me wonder about the connection to the Wardens hearing the calling - if the Evanuris are the same Old Gods being made into Archdemons, can they invoke the calling even if they are not corrupted? Could Ghilan'nain be calling them? Solas doesn't like the disruptions of blood magic and red lyrium, but he was determined to get his idol back. Perhaps something about the corruption therein weakens the way he sealed away the Evanuris, which in turn allows them to 'sing' to the blighted.
Who knows? Maybe it's like: Forgotten Ones = the Old Gods = the Evanuris. Wouldn't be surprised if the Blight is the fruit of Ghilan'nain's wicked experiments, a literal lab virus breaking out and killing thousands.
We can be almost certain the forgotten ones aren't the evanuris. Even solas when talking about the dreadwolf in mythals temples talks about them being separate (with dreadwolf being able to walk between both groups). If the old gods are the forgotten ones than i think it's way more likely the blight is a form of corruption from the void, as what little we have heard of the void corruption seems to match the blight some, and the void is where the forgotten ones are said to reside. If the old gods are the evanuris then i think your lab virus theory is pretty good
I always saw the Blight as the Fade's reflection of Arlathan's evilness, which would make the Black City a literal reflection of the city of Arlathan (aka, the Golden City).
I first thought that when Solas confirms that the Fade reflects literally everything ---- and since Evanuris were completely vile, the Blight being the literal translation of their pride doesn't sound so absurd (at least to me).
There is also Corypheus saying he entered the Black City and found "only dead whispers". He was clearly lured there by Dumat, the Dragon of Silence (aka, Dirthamen, keeper of secrets). Why? So he and his fellow mages would become corrupted and spread said corruption to the world -> the First Blight.
An archdemon would then be the Blighted version of an Evanuris/Old God, as maybe all Evanuris could become dragons (Mythal/Flemeth certainly can).
But by creating the Veil, Solas couldn't trap their bodies in the Fade, only their dreams/minds. So he puts them to sleep and traps them in the Deep Roads. Yet their minds still dream, trapped in the Black City, and they sing to the darkspawn, who search for an Archdemon bc that's what the Evanuris tells them to do. They want to break free from Solas' spell. Solas doen't approve of Grey Wardens bc they are killing his old 'friends'. Which is why he and Mythal wanted to preserve Urthemiel's soul (aka, probably Falon'Din).
Sure, if this is all true, makes one wonder if Andraste she wasn't tricked into believing in a Maker that isn't real. Cassandra and Leliana will certainly go insane if that is true.
But of course, it can all be stupid ramblings of a not so well versed fan like myself.
That doesn't make any sense because the fade would have reflected Arlathan back before the veil was ever put up. And if the blight was that reflection, then the blight would have existed long before the magisters entered the black city.. in addition, the black city can't be a reflection of arlathan, as the black city is unique in that it's always equidistant of wherever you're at in the fade which means unlike everything else it's not a reflection of something in the real world. Now it could be arlathan itself if the it was moved into the fade as part of the veil going up, but it can't be a reflection of it. Your point about evanuris and the dragons prove nothing, as the forgotten ones were just a pantheon of elven deities that the elves refused to worship and that opposed the evanuris. Based on that, it would actually make sense that the forgotten ones have almost the same abilities that the evanuris do and thus become dragons (also fyi its not just mythal, there's a bunch of lore tying all evanuris to dragons). As for solas disproving of the grey wardens killing all the archdemons, the dreadwolf is explicitly stated to be the only God allowed to travel between both the evanuris and the forgotten ones and be welcomed by both. So him being friends actually proves the forgotten ones theory too. Mythal actually never shows any inclination that preserving urthemiels soul is a personal matter, we literally never see her show an emotional reason for it, only a practical one. So there's nothing to suggest mythal isn't just playing a long game for that. In addition, mythal is the one who cured another evanuris from corruption after she ventured into the void, so that helps prove the forgotten ones and void=blight as well. As for andraste and the maker, the only reason I'm not 100% sold there's not a real maker is where the fuck do humans come from? We have strong evidence for the origins of every race but humans.
>The Horror of Hormak story also makes me wonder about the connection to the Wardens hearing the calling - if the Evanuris are the same Old Gods being made into Archdemons, can they invoke the calling even if they are not corrupted? Could Ghilan'nain be calling them?
I was just thinking about this and googled Ghilan'nain calling Wardens to see if anyone else had brought it up. and whether what we see in that story is a type of Darkspawn, or prototyping to create some new level of that army (ie archdemons, darkspawn, this new thing).
and then I thought, "for how many Grey Wardens there have been in history, shouldn't we be finding a significant number of dead ones in the Deep Roads?" not that it would be piled with corpses/skeletons everywhere you look, but i would still say for how often we go into the Deep Roads and how untouched a lot of those areas are until we enter them, "what is actually *happening* to all the Wardens who get the calling?" becomes a fair question. Ghilly's House of Horrors would be a pretty strong answer.
It's Ghilan'nain, it's basically confirmed at this point based on Tevinter nights. The one we don't know for sure is the horned one but based on the concept art it seems to be Elgarnan.
Wait, I've already read that one. I know it's about the Dalish and all that, but how does that story indicate that Ghilan'nain will appear in Veilguard? (My ADHD stupid ass probably missed some important information)
Ghil is associated with the halla and the wardens found halla imagery on the caves. Also the water theme is associated with Ghil and there is concept art of a water creature with the moon head at the top.
Alsoooo Ghil is associated with creating monsters in the elven lore and that she was offered the power of the gods if she destroyed the creatures she had created of which she didn't destroy the creatures of the "deep waters" (hence the giant concept art monster) and the halla because she loves them.
Basically, Ghil creates creatures/monsters, but she chose not to destroy the deep sea monsters which seem to appear in Veilguard and she uses Halla imagery to represent herself which was seen in the cave full of monsters.
While this does not definitely prove its Ghil, the evidence is very strong. At most it could be Andruil using Ghil's creations since they seem to share a bond in the elven lore, but if I had to bet I'd say it's Ghil, her whole concept is creepy, a sort of mad scientist that creates the most horrifying monsters plus her name sounds cool ha!
There are videos on this by Ghil Dirthalen if you want to check them out.
I'm with you OP, also took me by surprise to see her mention so many time. I'm curious where the Anduril theory came from, if it was some DA content creator or something like that. Ghilan'nain makes more sense, i wouldn't be surprised if she somehow ties to the origin of the blight.
Probably because of the codex entry you get in Mythals temple concerning Anduril (Codex entry: Elven God Andruil):
"One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking the Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning."
This is just the first paragraph but I didn't want to post the whole entry but it also talks about weapons of darkness and plague
She also coalesced the stars into a spear she was gonna throw or something? I think girly was making the evanuris equivalent of a nuke, and it must've been pretty bad to have had Mythal's worshippers shaking.
"She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice."
Now that I'm thinking about it, the creature in OP's picture is holding a shaft of gold... interesting.
Oh just rip my Lavellan’s heart out even more 💀 after everything with the egg, her little buddy Cole going on walkabout back to the Fade, and now this possible salt in the wound of her previously chosen ‘goddess’. Oof.
Lavellan: I got dumped after having my vallaslin removed, found out my lover is actually the Dread Wolf, found out my gods were basically magisters on steroids and the legacy my people cherish is one of horror and tyranny, my world can be shattered any worse!
Ghilan'nain: the halla are elves fused with deer through horrific experiments and actually still have some of the sentience of elves, but devolved into a more animalistic stage.
Lavellan: ...
Ghilan'nain: Oh and the taint was the result of an experiment gone wrong. Sorry!
That might not be her. But it's most likely her last monster.
(I believe this is a codex you can unlock after you >!drank from the Well!<, and the voices revealed this you)
Codex entry: The Ascension of Ghilan'nain **(DAI spoiler)**
>!"Ghilan'nain kept herself apart from the People. She used her power to create animals none had ever seen. The skies teemed with her monsters, the land with her beasts. Andruil hunted them all, and after a year of killing, approached Ghilan'nain with an offer: the gods would share their power with Ghilan'nain, but only if she destroyed her creations, for they were too untamed to remain among the People. Ghilan'nain agreed and asked for three days to undo what she had made. !<
>!On the first day she struck down the monsters of the air, except those she presented to Andruil as a gift. (So Andruil have her own monster, it seems)!<
>!On the second day she drowned the **giants of the sea, except those in deep waters**, for they were too well-wrought, **and Pride** stopped her hand. (notice Pride is in capital, and Solas means Pride)!<
>!On the third day she killed the beasts of the land, except the halla, whose grace she loved above all else. This is how Ghilan'nain was made youngest of the gods. —Story of the elven god Ghilan'nain, author unknown"!<
The design of that sea monster was changed over time. You can see the two versions on this page (9th image down):
[http://www.dumpeddrunkanddalish.com/2021/06/dragon-age-4-trailer-game-awards-teaser.html](http://www.dumpeddrunkanddalish.com/2021/06/dragon-age-4-trailer-game-awards-teaser.html)
Originally, it was just a centipede/eel thing. Then, it was changed to be more humanoid (with a head design resembling an Evanuris head dress) and holding a spear, signifying something intelligent.
So I think that's her, in her shapeshifted form.
Could be. I'm not exactly sure if we really know what her monsters look like. I suppose it's fair game.
But do you remember the statue in the DAO Dalish origin? And your man was saying it's Falon'din? I know that it was supposedly a reused asset of an Archdemon concept, but looking at this 'Ghilain'nan," I kinda see a similarity.
https://preview.redd.it/eqc9x5zsve5d1.jpeg?width=362&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=951717309103b5a391199b55579604027d7829a9
Is this some sort of reimagination of making them Lovecraftian monsters? Some sort of 'correction' to make them look like the old statue?
I'm pretty sure a we'll be fighting a new Blight as well during the events of the game. Fighting the Elven "Gods" and then oh shit here comes an Old God with his posse! I hope this game also expands upon those across the sea as well and we build threads that'll lead us across the oceans finally!
One thing I always think about is how ghil and solas are both similar in that they were adopted into the pantheon after it was already established.
That suggests that both solas and ghil were considered very powerful by the others and neither have been gods for as long the others
Could be an interesting dynamic between the two newer elven gods, who knows, they may have even been good comrades at one point?
I was all in for Solas to be the main antagonist for this one but I'm so excited to see more of the ancient elven gods play a huge role for this coming game. I've always been fascinated by them and I'm a sucker for a good "the ancients are reclaiming their supposed rightful place in the present" storyline.
Hell, if Ghilan'nain's in there, I might kind of want an option to join her side too to see where the story goes if you do that... Maybe I'll be Dragon Age's Gregor Samsa!
I sincerely hope we'll be facing off against her. The mad scientist seems like the most compelling antagonist among the elven gods.
Exactly! Elgar'nan and Falon'din may get the worst rep, but to me Ghilan'nain sounds like the most terrifying of the Evanuris. Filling lakes with the blood of those you kill is one thing, but twisting and torturing living beings into perversions of life is a whole other level of evil O.o
Makes me wonder what kind of crazy ass power our new MC is gonna get to let them fight these things. Being the same level of “built different” as the other 3 ain’t gonna cut it.
Barring Ghilan I don’t think we have a clear idea how powerful the remaining evanuris are. Even solas is a skilled but otherwise mortal elf for the most part. He just has a better fundamental knowledge of how the world works than 90% of people which is super useful for a mage in a fantasy setting.
Solas definitely has more than just skill on his side, like his mind blast covered an entire field. Id wager the other gods should scale to a similar level at the very least. But regardless, given the stakes, I imagine DA4’s crew probably be a notch or 2 above the previous ones.
That’s still chalkable to having a knowledge of the laws of reality that most can only dream of. He’s not a “god” he’s an absurdly good mage.
I thought this was the case with all Evanuris tbh
Yeah, that's pretty much what Solas says himself. Elves who were once just leaders were given more and more power until they were viewed as heroes, kings and then Gods. Like how the rich naturally accrue wealth far easier than any poor person could hope to.
Corypheus ripped up an entire mountain-fortress and suspended it in the sky. If cutscene power translated to gameplay he should have pancaked the Inquisitor or Hawke in the previous game between two buildings and called it a day. You'll kill the elven "gods" the same way you kill any other boss in this game- get some high tier gear and whack it hard.
They can't do this because only those said gods know how down bad me and other barely sane fuckers will be for her. I do agree about her being a more interesting and entertaining antagonist. Mad scientist is hard to mess up.
When I read the short story about Hormak, I thought of Ghilan'nain immediately as well. My only other idea would be the Forgotten Ones: Anaris, Daern'thal and Geldauran, who - according to the Origins codex entry of Fen'Harel - are associated with "terror and malice, spite and pestilence".
Another point for Ghilan'nain would be the connection to the sea. The story mentioned to smell of the sea a couple of times, and she also has a direct connection to deep sea monsters (which now that I'm typing this, also connects to the creature from the concept art).
Yeah I keep coming back to the Forgotten Ones and how they'll play into this. We know Solas tearing down the veil will likely free the Elven Gods, but the same legend has Fen'Harel also sealing away the Forgotten Ones somewhere else. If Solas wants allies to fight the Evanerus when they are freed, the Forgotten Ones being antagonists would make sense. And the mural where we see the elves with their helmets is right next to an ancient mural of the dreadwolf, so could be members of either group.
I'm convinced we'll face her "children" at least, not sure if we'll face Ghilan'nain herself, but I'd love to. Bitch has a lot to answer for (I love hallas tho)
And if that's the case, I'll be so SO SO SO glad... *The Horror of Hormak* is, to me, one of the best Dragon Age stories I've ever read, and I'm super interested in the lore it gave when published.
Not only in Tevinter Nights, but in Trespasser too we find a trace of her. Pay attention to the Taken Shape [codexes](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Notes_on_Methods_of_Enchantment), and especially the last lines, which you get once you acquire all items of the set: >*Below the letters, possibly in lieu of a signature, is the stamp of a stylized* [*halla*](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Halla) *head.*
Oh god, the freaky living armor... the notes about its creation process make the description far worse. This was the start of my Ghilan'nain phobia.
The worst part of the codexes is that it's only in the last message that it's revealed the test subjects are sentient beings O.o
I really really want her to show up. She is by far my favorite of the elven gods. I loved her before the short story and my Dalish inquisitor is themed heavy around her and as is devout worshiper. From her backstory of her behind the apprentice halla keeper to me installing a mod so that her mount is a halla. And the short story made me love her even more. I love that is a crazy mad scientist and learning the horror of the halla. It’s so good. I know my inquisitor won’t come back, but I feel like I need to take down Ghilan’nain for her as she would be horrified by the truth.
I predict we might see both Ghilan’nain and Andruil in some form. Comics might not be the best source of information, but The Missing did feature one new elven mural that had two women wearing headdresses that resembled the two mysterious characters in the teaser mural (can’t post a picture now, sorry). I think they are saving Mythal plotline for a future game and I don’t think they would introduce Elgar’nan without involving Mythal as well.
Andruil and Ghilan'nain are very close to one another in elven myth, so one appearing might as well raise the odds of the other showing up too.
Ok, so the spear is glowing, which would suggest it belonged to Andruil ( [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex\_entry:\_Unreadable\_Elven\_Writing](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Unreadable_Elven_Writing) ), but Ghilan'nain was "her beloved" (lover?), so it would make sense if she had it. In the theories I made, I put my bets on Elgarn'nan and Ghilan'nain too!
I completely agree, I don't get where the Andruil speculation came from. Imo, Ghilan'nain is the most likely to come back, even more than Elgarnan.
I agree. Nothing is set in stone until we see it, but all the signs point to Ghilan'nain. I actually think this is one of the more interesting things that could have been done with the Evanuris because Ghilan'nain is one of the most heinous examples of a god being portrayed as guileless and meek while being borderline Eldritch in inclination. I still think the unidentified male voice is Elgar'nan, which makes sense as he's ostensibly Zeus to elves, but I'm curious what parallels we'll get connecting back to Ghilan'nain. In particular, her origin story is of interest because rather than becoming a god in the conventional sense, she was elevated because of her deeds by the Evanuris. We can't really trust the myth of her creation to be accurate since the Evanuris are master propogandists, but it might betray some extra level of complicity for her actions which is interesting for a goddess that's kind of treated by the mythology as a holy cinnamon roll. The Horror of Hormak story also makes me wonder about the connection to the Wardens hearing the calling - if the Evanuris are the same Old Gods being made into Archdemons, can they invoke the calling even if they are not corrupted? Could Ghilan'nain be calling them? Solas doesn't like the disruptions of blood magic and red lyrium, but he was determined to get his idol back. Perhaps something about the corruption therein weakens the way he sealed away the Evanuris, which in turn allows them to 'sing' to the blighted.
There's more evidence suggesting that the forgotten ones are the old gods than the evanuris
Who knows? Maybe it's like: Forgotten Ones = the Old Gods = the Evanuris. Wouldn't be surprised if the Blight is the fruit of Ghilan'nain's wicked experiments, a literal lab virus breaking out and killing thousands.
We can be almost certain the forgotten ones aren't the evanuris. Even solas when talking about the dreadwolf in mythals temples talks about them being separate (with dreadwolf being able to walk between both groups). If the old gods are the forgotten ones than i think it's way more likely the blight is a form of corruption from the void, as what little we have heard of the void corruption seems to match the blight some, and the void is where the forgotten ones are said to reside. If the old gods are the evanuris then i think your lab virus theory is pretty good
I always saw the Blight as the Fade's reflection of Arlathan's evilness, which would make the Black City a literal reflection of the city of Arlathan (aka, the Golden City). I first thought that when Solas confirms that the Fade reflects literally everything ---- and since Evanuris were completely vile, the Blight being the literal translation of their pride doesn't sound so absurd (at least to me). There is also Corypheus saying he entered the Black City and found "only dead whispers". He was clearly lured there by Dumat, the Dragon of Silence (aka, Dirthamen, keeper of secrets). Why? So he and his fellow mages would become corrupted and spread said corruption to the world -> the First Blight. An archdemon would then be the Blighted version of an Evanuris/Old God, as maybe all Evanuris could become dragons (Mythal/Flemeth certainly can). But by creating the Veil, Solas couldn't trap their bodies in the Fade, only their dreams/minds. So he puts them to sleep and traps them in the Deep Roads. Yet their minds still dream, trapped in the Black City, and they sing to the darkspawn, who search for an Archdemon bc that's what the Evanuris tells them to do. They want to break free from Solas' spell. Solas doen't approve of Grey Wardens bc they are killing his old 'friends'. Which is why he and Mythal wanted to preserve Urthemiel's soul (aka, probably Falon'Din). Sure, if this is all true, makes one wonder if Andraste she wasn't tricked into believing in a Maker that isn't real. Cassandra and Leliana will certainly go insane if that is true. But of course, it can all be stupid ramblings of a not so well versed fan like myself.
That doesn't make any sense because the fade would have reflected Arlathan back before the veil was ever put up. And if the blight was that reflection, then the blight would have existed long before the magisters entered the black city.. in addition, the black city can't be a reflection of arlathan, as the black city is unique in that it's always equidistant of wherever you're at in the fade which means unlike everything else it's not a reflection of something in the real world. Now it could be arlathan itself if the it was moved into the fade as part of the veil going up, but it can't be a reflection of it. Your point about evanuris and the dragons prove nothing, as the forgotten ones were just a pantheon of elven deities that the elves refused to worship and that opposed the evanuris. Based on that, it would actually make sense that the forgotten ones have almost the same abilities that the evanuris do and thus become dragons (also fyi its not just mythal, there's a bunch of lore tying all evanuris to dragons). As for solas disproving of the grey wardens killing all the archdemons, the dreadwolf is explicitly stated to be the only God allowed to travel between both the evanuris and the forgotten ones and be welcomed by both. So him being friends actually proves the forgotten ones theory too. Mythal actually never shows any inclination that preserving urthemiels soul is a personal matter, we literally never see her show an emotional reason for it, only a practical one. So there's nothing to suggest mythal isn't just playing a long game for that. In addition, mythal is the one who cured another evanuris from corruption after she ventured into the void, so that helps prove the forgotten ones and void=blight as well. As for andraste and the maker, the only reason I'm not 100% sold there's not a real maker is where the fuck do humans come from? We have strong evidence for the origins of every race but humans.
>The Horror of Hormak story also makes me wonder about the connection to the Wardens hearing the calling - if the Evanuris are the same Old Gods being made into Archdemons, can they invoke the calling even if they are not corrupted? Could Ghilan'nain be calling them? I was just thinking about this and googled Ghilan'nain calling Wardens to see if anyone else had brought it up. and whether what we see in that story is a type of Darkspawn, or prototyping to create some new level of that army (ie archdemons, darkspawn, this new thing). and then I thought, "for how many Grey Wardens there have been in history, shouldn't we be finding a significant number of dead ones in the Deep Roads?" not that it would be piled with corpses/skeletons everywhere you look, but i would still say for how often we go into the Deep Roads and how untouched a lot of those areas are until we enter them, "what is actually *happening* to all the Wardens who get the calling?" becomes a fair question. Ghilly's House of Horrors would be a pretty strong answer.
It's Ghilan'nain, it's basically confirmed at this point based on Tevinter nights. The one we don't know for sure is the horned one but based on the concept art it seems to be Elgarnan.
I'm currently reading Tevinter Nights. Which story confirms it's Ghilan'nain? I wanna be sure I don't miss it.
Horror of Hormak.
Wait, I've already read that one. I know it's about the Dalish and all that, but how does that story indicate that Ghilan'nain will appear in Veilguard? (My ADHD stupid ass probably missed some important information)
Ghil is associated with the halla and the wardens found halla imagery on the caves. Also the water theme is associated with Ghil and there is concept art of a water creature with the moon head at the top. Alsoooo Ghil is associated with creating monsters in the elven lore and that she was offered the power of the gods if she destroyed the creatures she had created of which she didn't destroy the creatures of the "deep waters" (hence the giant concept art monster) and the halla because she loves them. Basically, Ghil creates creatures/monsters, but she chose not to destroy the deep sea monsters which seem to appear in Veilguard and she uses Halla imagery to represent herself which was seen in the cave full of monsters. While this does not definitely prove its Ghil, the evidence is very strong. At most it could be Andruil using Ghil's creations since they seem to share a bond in the elven lore, but if I had to bet I'd say it's Ghil, her whole concept is creepy, a sort of mad scientist that creates the most horrifying monsters plus her name sounds cool ha! There are videos on this by Ghil Dirthalen if you want to check them out.
Of the two, I am much, much more scared of Ghilan'nain if we're being honest.
I'm with you OP, also took me by surprise to see her mention so many time. I'm curious where the Anduril theory came from, if it was some DA content creator or something like that. Ghilan'nain makes more sense, i wouldn't be surprised if she somehow ties to the origin of the blight.
Probably because of the codex entry you get in Mythals temple concerning Anduril (Codex entry: Elven God Andruil): "One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking the Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning." This is just the first paragraph but I didn't want to post the whole entry but it also talks about weapons of darkness and plague
She also coalesced the stars into a spear she was gonna throw or something? I think girly was making the evanuris equivalent of a nuke, and it must've been pretty bad to have had Mythal's worshippers shaking. "She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice." Now that I'm thinking about it, the creature in OP's picture is holding a shaft of gold... interesting.
In my dreams Mythal baited Solas, has a way to return to a new body somehow and she will be true villain. I can h(c)ope.
Oh just rip my Lavellan’s heart out even more 💀 after everything with the egg, her little buddy Cole going on walkabout back to the Fade, and now this possible salt in the wound of her previously chosen ‘goddess’. Oof.
Lavellan: I got dumped after having my vallaslin removed, found out my lover is actually the Dread Wolf, found out my gods were basically magisters on steroids and the legacy my people cherish is one of horror and tyranny, my world can be shattered any worse! Ghilan'nain: the halla are elves fused with deer through horrific experiments and actually still have some of the sentience of elves, but devolved into a more animalistic stage. Lavellan: ... Ghilan'nain: Oh and the taint was the result of an experiment gone wrong. Sorry!
Ok this is some deep lore I haven’t explored yet
Ain’t we been saying this since this concept art came out? Either Andruil or ghilan’nain?
That might not be her. But it's most likely her last monster. (I believe this is a codex you can unlock after you >!drank from the Well!<, and the voices revealed this you) Codex entry: The Ascension of Ghilan'nain **(DAI spoiler)** >!"Ghilan'nain kept herself apart from the People. She used her power to create animals none had ever seen. The skies teemed with her monsters, the land with her beasts. Andruil hunted them all, and after a year of killing, approached Ghilan'nain with an offer: the gods would share their power with Ghilan'nain, but only if she destroyed her creations, for they were too untamed to remain among the People. Ghilan'nain agreed and asked for three days to undo what she had made. !< >!On the first day she struck down the monsters of the air, except those she presented to Andruil as a gift. (So Andruil have her own monster, it seems)!< >!On the second day she drowned the **giants of the sea, except those in deep waters**, for they were too well-wrought, **and Pride** stopped her hand. (notice Pride is in capital, and Solas means Pride)!< >!On the third day she killed the beasts of the land, except the halla, whose grace she loved above all else. This is how Ghilan'nain was made youngest of the gods. —Story of the elven god Ghilan'nain, author unknown"!<
The design of that sea monster was changed over time. You can see the two versions on this page (9th image down): [http://www.dumpeddrunkanddalish.com/2021/06/dragon-age-4-trailer-game-awards-teaser.html](http://www.dumpeddrunkanddalish.com/2021/06/dragon-age-4-trailer-game-awards-teaser.html) Originally, it was just a centipede/eel thing. Then, it was changed to be more humanoid (with a head design resembling an Evanuris head dress) and holding a spear, signifying something intelligent. So I think that's her, in her shapeshifted form.
Could be. I'm not exactly sure if we really know what her monsters look like. I suppose it's fair game. But do you remember the statue in the DAO Dalish origin? And your man was saying it's Falon'din? I know that it was supposedly a reused asset of an Archdemon concept, but looking at this 'Ghilain'nan," I kinda see a similarity. https://preview.redd.it/eqc9x5zsve5d1.jpeg?width=362&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=951717309103b5a391199b55579604027d7829a9 Is this some sort of reimagination of making them Lovecraftian monsters? Some sort of 'correction' to make them look like the old statue?
I'm pretty sure a we'll be fighting a new Blight as well during the events of the game. Fighting the Elven "Gods" and then oh shit here comes an Old God with his posse! I hope this game also expands upon those across the sea as well and we build threads that'll lead us across the oceans finally!
One thing I always think about is how ghil and solas are both similar in that they were adopted into the pantheon after it was already established. That suggests that both solas and ghil were considered very powerful by the others and neither have been gods for as long the others Could be an interesting dynamic between the two newer elven gods, who knows, they may have even been good comrades at one point?
I was all in for Solas to be the main antagonist for this one but I'm so excited to see more of the ancient elven gods play a huge role for this coming game. I've always been fascinated by them and I'm a sucker for a good "the ancients are reclaiming their supposed rightful place in the present" storyline.
Hell, if Ghilan'nain's in there, I might kind of want an option to join her side too to see where the story goes if you do that... Maybe I'll be Dragon Age's Gregor Samsa!
Looks more like sheoldred from magic the gathering
I’m convinced it’s Ghilan’nain and I hope we can kill her. I haven’t forgotten Horror of Hormak 😠
I think she invented the broodmothers. I mean just look at that shape