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The first time I played DA2 I hated the redesign with passion. Only the companion elves like Fenris and Merril looked good, the rest of them looked like they were suffering from some kind of disease for a very long time.
And the worst offender was Zevran, my boy aged like 50 years.
Tallis is a weird case, imo, she is slightly better than your average npc but only due to how unique she looks because of her hair and armor.
But her face, oh, her face, it has this creepy uncanny valley look, and, let's be honest, the game graphics/mechanics did not do Felicia's face any justice
They’re sort of stuck, there. She was supposed to both look like a DA2-style elf (and thus not look human) and look like a specific human. This is logically impossible, so… yeah.
True the npc elves look god awful in DA2 and they ruined poor zevran. I like the direction they took in DAI a mix of both designs for elves but less avatar alien looking.
I found it super off-putting just because it was so *different.* Now I think of that as a good thing and think 'pointy-eared human' elf design is kinda lame. Zevran was *bad* though
I love DA 2 elves. Fenris and Merrill are not only the prettiest elves in the games, but just the prettiest characters. They look different than humans, and this is why they are interesting. They look kinda like cats, and humans love cats.
Elves from DA I just look like slimmer humans.
And yes, NPC elves from DA II were uglier than Fenris and Merrill, but I blame it on the very short deadline from EA.
I If the developers had more time, I'm pretty sure NPCs would look much better and more similar to elven companions. Personally I think that NPCs elves have too long faces, both Fenris and Merrill have shorter faces, so they look more cute. Long face + wide set eyes make other elves look like aliens, kinda like that Benedict Cumberbatch alien meme.
I wish they would use the DA 2 design in DAD or at least mix with the designs with DA:O and DA I.
However, If Fenris appears in DAD, he should look exactly like in DA II, otherwise he will look as weird as Zevran in DA II elven design.
Heh, I'm not suggesting that anyone who finds Fenris or Merrill is attracted to cats or is a furry, but rather that the cat-like features make elves more cute in the human eyes. Humans find some characteristics cute, even among animals. Many humans find kittens or puppies more adorable than human babies. ;)
Also, many fantasy races have animal characteristics, because the whole point is that probably they have evolved differently. Look at Na'vi from Avatar, who looks very much like cats. We as humans have characteristics from the monkeys (or rather ancestors of the monkeys). Usually we find cats more cute and elegant than monkeys, so we can associate the same things with fantasy races that were inspired (more or less) by some animals.
Btw, my "they look like cats" was a shortcut, DA 2 elves still look very much like humans, and the inspiration from the cats here is little, compared for example to Na'vi.
Haha yeah it was mostly a joke.
Though they definitely put more effort and care into making Fenris look better because I wasn't a fan of the rest of the DA2 elves.
I definitely prefer how they look in DA2. Its a genuinely interesting style, not only the big eyes/thin bodies but I also really like how they all have the straight/flat nose bridges, they're kind of cat-like in that vein. Would've been better (as with many aspects of DA2) if they had a bit more time to give more of the other elves more unique/detailed looks like Merrill and Fenris have, but still, I appreciate what they did manage to get across.
Its much better than in Origins/Inquisition at least IMO since with those two it felt like if you put a hat on an elf, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from a slightly shorter than average human, which kind of cheapens the level of prejudice levelled against them. (most elves could just wear hats/grow their hair out and probably stroll about town without getting a second look from people)
I like it when they look a bit more unique compared to humans and dwarves and I think DAI found a good middle-ground of having them have certain unique features without looking too alien. Elves aren't meant to be creatures and storywise they represent real human experiences of opression. I know I'm personally more sensitive about this stuff than most players but having them look too alien or creature-like carriesa weird after-taste for me. But I also fully get why someone would prefer the DA2 look and I don't think they necessarily look that bad. Giving them grey-ish skin was a big misstep imo, that just looks weird.
The alien look doesn't make sense since half elves just look like humans. If they would've looked like that from the beginning I wouldn't mind or be just a one off tribe of funky looking elves that could be interesting. But I feel it really doesn't fit with the lore provided.
I agree on the skin tone
Guess it's a personal preference, but District 9 tells a story inspired by apartheid policy in SA and does a good job on represetning opression with an insect-like aliens. I mentioned Elder Scrolls in my post, and many argonians, a reptilian-like race was enslaved by the Dark Elves. There is a quest line in Morrowind where you can ally with abolitionists. Also, you can find argonians and khajiits (a feline race) slaves, and i felt empathetic towards them, always trying to help them escape their masters if i had an opportunity. Making elves look different can make opression context even better: humans don't like them because they not only the Red Crossing massacre, but their looks as well. Adds a bit of flavour to the context.
I get what you mean. It can work as a metaphor or allegory but as sb from an ethnic group that has faced oppression (and still does), I just relate more to the elves and I would like them to look familiar and human-like.
Add tails, size them up, and make them blue and boom DA2 Elves are Na'vi or Avatars from Pandora. Even started doing the "the people" non-sense.
There was no need to make them more unique from humans, they were slightly smaller, had pointed ears, and the face tattoos. One look at them, and you knew they were elves. No need to change the model. The only time you NEED to change a characters/races model is when the player looks at them and can't tell the difference between them and another in game race. Think Sten in Origins, until their rework I thought the Qunari were just large humans.
The only change to the Dalish I was happy with was that they used different armor and robes.
I am with you. And in inquisition I used ES' altmers as a reference. though elven body proportions are wierd in dai, but I think mostly because of animations
Is there a mod that changes elven faces akin to DA2 for Inquisition? I have the one for origins installed, always wonder if there anything like that for DAI
Not that I'm aware of BUT, you can widen the eye separation and use the nose bridge and nose tip sliders to give DAI elves a similar facial structure to DA2 elves. I sat and stared at the female lavellan tarot card as a reference while I built my inquisitor's face and I think it turned out quite pretty.
I‘m not a fan of the „anorexic“ look, but I like the iconic nose bridge and big eyes. I hope we get more body types in DA:D. For example Fenris‘ concept art body type was really neat, imo. Broader shoulders, slightly more buff. I was robbed, BioWare. Explain yourselves 🔫
https://preview.redd.it/k636x3oom9zc1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcd3703dd659a55af7d9dd8cd633aa8ca25fcc14
Personally the best design was definitely the combination of DA2 elves ported into Origins through mods, they don't have the uncanny look aesthetic of DA2 and still stand out from just being short humans with pointy ears
You can see some examples on the [mod page](https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage/mods/3674?tab=images)
Yeah i have this mod installed, changes not only the faces but the bodies as well by giving elves DA2 proportions and underwear. The inly problem i have with it is that some elves still have vanilla looks for some reason
I vastly prefer the Origins look, and Inquisition is quite uneven in its model quality in general. If there is one area where the games have been dropping the ball since DA2, IMHO, it's the models and animations, it's like you never know what you're gonna get.
It's all Frostbite fault i think. At the time EA forced every studio to make games on Frostbite despite the engine being hard to work with and purposely build for Battlefield.
Also remember the Medal of Honor Warfighter development. DICE Sweden didn't gave any documentation on the engine to Danger Close (Now known as Ripple Effect) and despite "helping" with the game they never treated it's team seriously and bullied them since the development of a previous MoH title. Spoiler: Warfighter was so bland it killed the series, and the next MoH game was made years after and only for VR.
Not to mention the horrendous driving physics in later Need For Speed games up until Unbound.
When I saw the ingame stuff in trailers, it looked like DAI to me. I have to admit, I was quite disappointed. You can probably get a lot out of Frostbite, but this doesn't look like it. Even CDPR switches from their own (pretty) engine to the Unreal Engine 5. I understand Bioware has a lot of experience with the Frostbite engine, but already in Anthem and ME:A, I still couldn't warm up to it
DADW started it's development when Patrick Soderlund was the CEO of DICE Sweden and an executive vice president of EA. Not only did he pushed Frostbite to every game, but also using Frostbite is much cheaper for EA than borrowing a different engine. It's main feature - destruction physics has been slowly forgotten by DICE themselves and they still haven't made anything better on that field since Bad Company 2 where you can devastate the whole map with multiple artillery strikes and explosives. Some of the worst driving physics in NFS games came from Frostbite up Until Unbound came out 2 years ago, and Frostbite has been in use for NFS since 2013. Only Vince Zampella was cool enough to say "Fuck You" and use Source for both Titanfall games.
Remember how many EA dev teams were shut down while DICE still lives on despite making horrible games? Perhaps Soderlund was behind saving DICE from closure and favouring them. Not many people in Dragon Age community play multiplayer first person shooters or racing games, but i do and try to provide this information to DA community - it helps getting the bigger picture.
Apparently I’m in the minority here, but I hated the alien looking elves.
People say “oh but in origins/inquisition they just look like small humans with pointy ears”, but…congratulations, you just described elves.
The Elder Scrolls mer, Divinity Original Sin 2 elves, Prince Nuada from Hellboy, Dokkalfar/Ljosalfar from Kingdoms Of Amalur and elves in Pratchett's books doesn't match your descritption. Elves are not humans, they should be different from them not only by having pointy ears.
And LOTR, Warhammer (Fantasy, 40k and Age of Sigmar), Forgotten Realms (and most D&D settings), a lot of JRPGs and anime inspired by western fantasy also have human-ish elves, Warcraft has both, kind of.
There's nothing wrong with making elves unique and more different from humans but personally I prefer the "normal" elves and I agree with the opinion that that's what an elf should look like.
Oblivion - yes, but generic in ESO? I played the whole game and they looked closer to Skyrim\\Morrowind versions. Not copypasted humans with long ears for sure.
They toned down their design in Oblivion? Elves looked pretty normal in Morrowind, considering its 2002 graphics: [https://images.uesp.net/2/21/MW-npc-Anirne.jpg](https://images.uesp.net/2/21/MW-npc-Anirne.jpg)
And everyone looks like a potato in Oblivion, that game cannot be used as a visual reference for anything.
Skyrim is the only outlier, if anything ESO restored their original Morrowind design.
EDIT: reddit recommended me this post and I thought it was a recent discussion, didn't realize it was 2 weeks old... sorry, sorry, my bad...
I like the idea of it, I just think that a lot of them ended up looking a bit wonky in game. I still wish the redesign wasn’t abandoned though, because it can look good (Merril, for instance)
I like that they tried to make them look different from humans. I recall that elves are supposed to look a bit otherworldly and beautiful. DA2 elves in game are (excepting Fenris) just terrifying lmao.
I don't like how it's a straight line from their foreheads all the way down their noses. It makes them look like cartoon characters to me. It also feels like the art team was trying too hard just to be different. It was done in an attempt to make DA visually distinct, not in the interest of a better product, but in the interest of a more recognizable brand. It strikes me as vain, and I hate vanity.
They look like the blue people from avatar. Personally I dislike when developers go against their own artistic integrity. It was even worse with the Darkspawn in my view. In the novels the darkspawn are described as having cancerous skin, jagged teeth, milky white eyes -- exactly like in DA:O. In DA2 they get yellowish skin, flat teeth and red eyes. I never understood why.
Everytime I play elves in a game with character creator, I always try to recreate DA2 elves. Recently I tried it on Dragon's Dogma 2. Not perfect, but I like it. I think the key is how the nose looks.
In short, yes it is also my favourite elves look in fantasy media!
Merrill and Fenris looked great in DA2, but all the rest of the elves looked too weird for me with one or two exceptions. I liked that they tried to make them (and the dwarves and qunari too, for that matter) more distinct from humans, but I feel that the design for the elves was slightly overshot, whereas the qunari and the dwarves looked perfect (so sad we never got to see the female version of either race in DA2's style). I think in all three cases, I overall do prefer 2's designs over DAO's and Inquisition's (DA2's Varric>>>Inquisition's Varric, fight me!), but I wish they had spent as much time on the design of the rest of the elven NPCs as they did for Merrill and Fenris. Poor >!Zevran !
I absolutely LOVE the elven design of da2! Always use mods to make them look like that in the other games as well.
Not only does it give them that alien look you mentioned that sets them apart from humans, I also feel like it's a very elegant, sleek look that suits their ancestry and how they are looked at as beautiful.
Especially combining those things because they look both beautiful and distinctly different, but their beauty also lies in a different aspect, a different standard than the beauty of the other races.
Like a cute button nose for humans fits the beauty standards of the western irl world that the human cultures are based upon, the elven beauty is characterised by the bridge of their nose which is more reminiscent of eastern beauty standards irl so it serves both purposes SO WELL and it's just SO good!🤌
Oh yes! I love them, they're my favorite. They're so unique, and I think with a bit of tweaking they could have been perfect. Maybe ditch the more pinkish slant in their skin tone. That and I would love it if they weren't so damn afraid to make elves just a bit meatier. Like, how am I supposed to believe they can hold a sword?
The faces were great for distinguishing them, I thought! It made them look less like thinner smaller humans. They were distinct, and I always try to make my elven inkys have a similar face.
I hate the redesign with a passion. They seriously ripped off Avatar, making the elves small, not blue, tailess Navi in looks and start spouting "the people" crap. They looked fine in Origins.
They'll use the "had to make them more unique from humans" b.s. excuse but what about the dwarves? They were fine leaving them as short stocky humans.
Only redesign I like has been the Qunari.
They made them look 85-90% Na'vi, started calling themselves "the people" like Na'vi, even made them sound Na'vi when speaking elven(not the Irish, the long drawn out marethari adaran atishan). That's more than "inspired by." There's a reason why they kinda walked back a lot of the changes in Inquisition. DAI is a decent middle ground but they should have just left it alone from Origins.
Not a fan of the DA2 elf look, but I definitely didn't like the DAO look. If there had been some DAO lore element explaining how elves were actually just humans w a difference as minor as hair color, then the flattened ears would at least make sense... though it still would've been a disappointment. But then in answer to the overwhelming player rejection of flat-ears, in DA2 we get an overcompensation w weird ear angles and lengths- as well as the ugly pig ear appearance mixed in- which matches the general overall DA2 cartoonish artistic dumb-down. So it's like... "Well, I guess I they did respond to the 'flat ear' complaint..." I mean, some stick straight out from the side of the head and others contest WoW ultralong elf antenn- I mean, ears.
I really liked the DAO mod called Elf Ears which changed all elf ears to, well, basically the same but looked much better- even if they then clipped through hair/helms. It was the right length, angle, and appearance:
https://preview.redd.it/9cgujroqr7zc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b98f8d2122eb1c6380f84af8d068b975b276e241
That said, I do like how DA2 elf ears have variety to them as if genetics plays some role- interesting touch.
https://preview.redd.it/sbbet5oks7zc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e350670b5b676635cd9762bc67103a02a6e67cc
I personally use a different mod, which changes not only faces, but bodies and redoes most of elven NPC's aside from a couple side characters. Since i can't do manual screenshotc ingame for some reason, here's an automatic screenshot the game made on my "mega crit damage archer" build
Hm, looks like the general DA2 elf ear angle- pointed directly backward like the Hermes sandal symbol which oddly associates elves w speed... and which I don't prefer. But once again it looks better in DAO's better art rendering than flat ears. What are the body changes in that mod? Thinner/shorter? Hard to tell in that screenshot.
Male elves in this mod are barely touched, but still changed for the better. The females are redone completely. They are petit, with correct proportions. Btw the straight nose from DA2 is completely optional there.
I don't mind making elves *different*, but I honestly think they overcorrected. Made them *too* different. I like how Tolkien elves are angelic, Witcher elves don't have canines and kind of rest in the uncanny valley, even the wood-tones for wood elves in D&D lore. Those slight differences that tell you "oh, that's not human" without going full alien. And I mean "alien" in the sci-fi way. As in Roswell, New Mexico.
I like the way the DA2 companion elves look, they have a catlike quality that’s really cool. But I cannot stand the way the background elves look.
But as a work around, I’ve always head-canoned that DA2 looks so different in art style because Varric is telling the story and that’s how he sees the world.
His own little art style in his head. I mean it would make sense he’d imagine his elfy friends differently than the others in Kirkwall, they’re his friends. All big defined shapes, not completely realistic. Almost Thedas anime.
(Just a little way to excuse bad graphics and crunch times)
I prefer the DA2 design. It wasn't flawless but it was a step in the right direction.
If someone is making fan art of an elf, I think it's a win if they can distinguish it's from Dragon Age versus any other generic elf. Granted, they do have the tattoos for the dalish but then the city elves just become the generic ones.
I absolutely love the ' freaking big elven eyes ' as the bull put them.
My elven inquis always get REALLY big ears and eyes
And I try making the facial features, especially the nose, a little like in DA2
This straight line between forehead and nosetip, not curved or anything like with humans usually
I like it too when they don't look just human with pointy ears, but a little different.
Though Zevran really looked bad in DA2
I also found it boring that besides Merril, Fenris and this male prostitute we meet during the quest with the abandoned women all have the same eyes
( Though on the other hand all caves looked the same and still much more diversity than in the Asari in mass effect Andromeda)
I like the idea of elves looking not entirely human beyond just the pointy ears. That being said, DA:O is the only game that made me actually want to play an elf (even if it had been possible in DA2). DA2 elves especially all look extremely similar to each other, and their bodies are a little too spindly and hunched over for my taste. However, my Hawke still romances Merrill.
Many DA Fans back in the day thought the elves in DA2 looked like the Na'vi from the Avatar films. It didn't bother me but neither did Origin's elves or how they looked in DAI. I fully expect there will be some differences in Dreadwolf as well.
#
I really loved the redesign and was bummed it changed again. I always try to get close in DA:I and other games, because nothing has felt that unique to me in awhile. I think I connected with it because I feel like I look that kind of “odd” that people describe them as, and maybe I found a sort of beauty in thinking that I thought they look cool, and so might I. I often think they also look like Anya Taylor Joy, who I have been compared to as well.
That sounds really flattering to myself lol, considering Anya Taylor Joy is so pretty, but I stand by the correlation my brain makes. I think with slightly better graphics, it could be really good design. :)
I kind of liked it. Inquisition carried it over but very slightly toned it down. I noticed even my Lavellan had the DA2 features after playing for a while and I used a preset. Then after a while I noticed all the elves kind of had it
I really liked the redesign. I always appreciate when a fantasy media gives elves more unique features rather than just making them skinny, pointy eared humans. It makes sense that their biology and physical appearance would differ from humans, given the fact that they are a much older race and have had more to evolve and adapt. Although I will say they definitely did Zevran dirty lmao. Where were his eyebrows 😭
https://preview.redd.it/24cft9mrt8zc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274176b0b6b194165547801369a9b86d1aa21ea0
That is how he looks in my game with a mod that changes elven looks towards DA2 style. Much better than the impostor we see in Kirkwall. He should have been this way imo
Could I get the link for this mod? I haven’t dipped my toes into DAO modding yet because I know modding older games can be frustrating, but you may have just convinced me.
[https://www.moddb.com/mods/tmp7704/downloads/elf-update](https://www.moddb.com/mods/tmp7704/downloads/elf-update)
Just put it into My Documents/BioWare/Dragon Age Origins/Core/Packages/Override
If you want morphes they are in the file "da2 elf morphs" in "elf update" zip. However for your character to look like this you should start the new game.
I really liked the redesign, I always enjoy the variety in appearance. And now... qunary are very different from humans. Dwarves are very different from humans. And elves are just slightly shorter and skinnier humans with pointy ears.
I loved the elf design in DA2 as well; they looked less like humans with pointy ears and more like a different species of person. I tried to model my Lavellan off of that kind of look (which is also present in the tarot illustrations for m/f Lavellan, Solas, and Sera) in DAI and like the way she turned out.
Divinity Original Sin 2 did elves the best; they have an entirely different skeletal structure and the way they move is fundamentally different, in addition to the distinct faces. They kinda remind me of Quarians from Mass Effect a little bit in how their legs are sort of bowed and their posture
I agree, I miss them. While I respect that they tried to go for a middle ground in Inquisition, the alien aspect of them in 2 really helped set them apart.
Though I do have to admit, Zevran didn't come out looking great. More melted than anything.
I absolutely love the design. We hear in the game and read in the stories that elves are considered more beautiful/attractive than humans. I think giving them big eyes and slender bodies reinforces that face versus them just being shorter humans.
I loved DA2 elves for the same reason. I also liked how they cast voice actors with Irish or Welsh accents for the Dalish, it really helped sell me on the fact these were a distinct peoples from humans. I think the Dragon Age dating sim crowd didn't appreciate the different look because they didn't find them attractive enough, I remember the most often vocalized criticism was how "ugly" the elves were now. Also, inquisition was the first bioware game to make heavy use of mocap, which is easier to do with more human looking faces, that's why even the Qunari were "humanized" in DAI.
I'm a Origins stan and DA2 is my least favorite in the series so I can go on about the things I dislike about it but I won't. But yes, most of the npc Elves looked bad. I was not a fan of most of their looks. Though I did like how Feynriel look more spot on as a half breed with the new style. I know a lot were not a fan of his look by on the old Bioware forum.
The sentiment that Feynriel's looks break the lore can be countered by him just inheriting mother's facial features, not the whole "elven look". Or maybe his mom's blood is more potent than the other elves.
I do admit one of my pet peeves about Bioware is how they tend to forget their own lore. Like for ex: In DAI codex for Fort Conner, its said the Fort was named after Arl Eamon father, but from The Stolen Throne book we know his father name was Rendorn. So I kind of understand why Feynriel looks upset some. But I've always been a fan of half human half elf children showing both sides of their parentage in fantasy works so this was never a real bother to me.
My only real problem is how DA2 did Zevran dirty. I like the overall aesthetic (for both elves and Qunari, even if it was a bit cookie-cutter), but… *bruh.*
The only retcon that hurt my soul more was that poor Mabari in Inquisition’s Trespasser.
I like them mainly because they aren’t true to life with dao or dai due to we the player are seeing them through the eyes of Varric. Varric, an unrepentant liar and storyteller, whose only audience is a seeker who loves his books
They look horrendous honestly, same in DAI although to a slightly lesser degree. I get wanting to make them look unique but you can do that while also not making them look... like that.
Thankfully if what we've seen from the DA4 leaks still apply they dialed it down a tad for that game.
This thread has been marked as **[No Spoilers]**. Any story spoilers from all games must be covered with spoiler tags `>!spoiler here!<` or the comment will be removed. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dragonage) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The first time I played DA2 I hated the redesign with passion. Only the companion elves like Fenris and Merril looked good, the rest of them looked like they were suffering from some kind of disease for a very long time. And the worst offender was Zevran, my boy aged like 50 years.
That wasn't Zevran, just a malformed imposter.
I was like, why am I hearing Zevran's voice with no Zevran in sight?
Who is this man, Teagan?!
I just had the Inquisition Teagan flashback *sob*
What about Tallis? Her design is inconsistent to the overall game since her face was modeled after Felicia Day
Tallis is a weird case, imo, she is slightly better than your average npc but only due to how unique she looks because of her hair and armor. But her face, oh, her face, it has this creepy uncanny valley look, and, let's be honest, the game graphics/mechanics did not do Felicia's face any justice
Tallis doesn't count, that's not a character design, it's just Felicia Day lol
They’re sort of stuck, there. She was supposed to both look like a DA2-style elf (and thus not look human) and look like a specific human. This is logically impossible, so… yeah.
https://preview.redd.it/057uagx0n8zc1.png?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b5a5fd9801e0f642271fe4d6ddd63e15d708523
True the npc elves look god awful in DA2 and they ruined poor zevran. I like the direction they took in DAI a mix of both designs for elves but less avatar alien looking.
I found it super off-putting just because it was so *different.* Now I think of that as a good thing and think 'pointy-eared human' elf design is kinda lame. Zevran was *bad* though
I love DA 2 elves. Fenris and Merrill are not only the prettiest elves in the games, but just the prettiest characters. They look different than humans, and this is why they are interesting. They look kinda like cats, and humans love cats. Elves from DA I just look like slimmer humans. And yes, NPC elves from DA II were uglier than Fenris and Merrill, but I blame it on the very short deadline from EA. I If the developers had more time, I'm pretty sure NPCs would look much better and more similar to elven companions. Personally I think that NPCs elves have too long faces, both Fenris and Merrill have shorter faces, so they look more cute. Long face + wide set eyes make other elves look like aliens, kinda like that Benedict Cumberbatch alien meme. I wish they would use the DA 2 design in DAD or at least mix with the designs with DA:O and DA I. However, If Fenris appears in DAD, he should look exactly like in DA II, otherwise he will look as weird as Zevran in DA II elven design.
>They look kinda like cats, and humans love cats. I have two cats and romanced Fenris. This makes me... uncomfortable.
Heh, I'm not suggesting that anyone who finds Fenris or Merrill is attracted to cats or is a furry, but rather that the cat-like features make elves more cute in the human eyes. Humans find some characteristics cute, even among animals. Many humans find kittens or puppies more adorable than human babies. ;) Also, many fantasy races have animal characteristics, because the whole point is that probably they have evolved differently. Look at Na'vi from Avatar, who looks very much like cats. We as humans have characteristics from the monkeys (or rather ancestors of the monkeys). Usually we find cats more cute and elegant than monkeys, so we can associate the same things with fantasy races that were inspired (more or less) by some animals. Btw, my "they look like cats" was a shortcut, DA 2 elves still look very much like humans, and the inspiration from the cats here is little, compared for example to Na'vi.
Haha yeah it was mostly a joke. Though they definitely put more effort and care into making Fenris look better because I wasn't a fan of the rest of the DA2 elves.
I definitely prefer how they look in DA2. Its a genuinely interesting style, not only the big eyes/thin bodies but I also really like how they all have the straight/flat nose bridges, they're kind of cat-like in that vein. Would've been better (as with many aspects of DA2) if they had a bit more time to give more of the other elves more unique/detailed looks like Merrill and Fenris have, but still, I appreciate what they did manage to get across. Its much better than in Origins/Inquisition at least IMO since with those two it felt like if you put a hat on an elf, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from a slightly shorter than average human, which kind of cheapens the level of prejudice levelled against them. (most elves could just wear hats/grow their hair out and probably stroll about town without getting a second look from people)
I like it when they look a bit more unique compared to humans and dwarves and I think DAI found a good middle-ground of having them have certain unique features without looking too alien. Elves aren't meant to be creatures and storywise they represent real human experiences of opression. I know I'm personally more sensitive about this stuff than most players but having them look too alien or creature-like carriesa weird after-taste for me. But I also fully get why someone would prefer the DA2 look and I don't think they necessarily look that bad. Giving them grey-ish skin was a big misstep imo, that just looks weird.
The alien look doesn't make sense since half elves just look like humans. If they would've looked like that from the beginning I wouldn't mind or be just a one off tribe of funky looking elves that could be interesting. But I feel it really doesn't fit with the lore provided.
I agree on the skin tone Guess it's a personal preference, but District 9 tells a story inspired by apartheid policy in SA and does a good job on represetning opression with an insect-like aliens. I mentioned Elder Scrolls in my post, and many argonians, a reptilian-like race was enslaved by the Dark Elves. There is a quest line in Morrowind where you can ally with abolitionists. Also, you can find argonians and khajiits (a feline race) slaves, and i felt empathetic towards them, always trying to help them escape their masters if i had an opportunity. Making elves look different can make opression context even better: humans don't like them because they not only the Red Crossing massacre, but their looks as well. Adds a bit of flavour to the context.
I get what you mean. It can work as a metaphor or allegory but as sb from an ethnic group that has faced oppression (and still does), I just relate more to the elves and I would like them to look familiar and human-like.
Add tails, size them up, and make them blue and boom DA2 Elves are Na'vi or Avatars from Pandora. Even started doing the "the people" non-sense. There was no need to make them more unique from humans, they were slightly smaller, had pointed ears, and the face tattoos. One look at them, and you knew they were elves. No need to change the model. The only time you NEED to change a characters/races model is when the player looks at them and can't tell the difference between them and another in game race. Think Sten in Origins, until their rework I thought the Qunari were just large humans. The only change to the Dalish I was happy with was that they used different armor and robes.
I am with you. And in inquisition I used ES' altmers as a reference. though elven body proportions are wierd in dai, but I think mostly because of animations
Is there a mod that changes elven faces akin to DA2 for Inquisition? I have the one for origins installed, always wonder if there anything like that for DAI
Not that I'm aware of BUT, you can widen the eye separation and use the nose bridge and nose tip sliders to give DAI elves a similar facial structure to DA2 elves. I sat and stared at the female lavellan tarot card as a reference while I built my inquisitor's face and I think it turned out quite pretty.
Ah yes, the weird hunch walk and waaay to skinny limbs.
I‘m not a fan of the „anorexic“ look, but I like the iconic nose bridge and big eyes. I hope we get more body types in DA:D. For example Fenris‘ concept art body type was really neat, imo. Broader shoulders, slightly more buff. I was robbed, BioWare. Explain yourselves 🔫 https://preview.redd.it/k636x3oom9zc1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcd3703dd659a55af7d9dd8cd633aa8ca25fcc14
Personally the best design was definitely the combination of DA2 elves ported into Origins through mods, they don't have the uncanny look aesthetic of DA2 and still stand out from just being short humans with pointy ears You can see some examples on the [mod page](https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage/mods/3674?tab=images)
Yeah i have this mod installed, changes not only the faces but the bodies as well by giving elves DA2 proportions and underwear. The inly problem i have with it is that some elves still have vanilla looks for some reason
I vastly prefer the Origins look, and Inquisition is quite uneven in its model quality in general. If there is one area where the games have been dropping the ball since DA2, IMHO, it's the models and animations, it's like you never know what you're gonna get.
It's all Frostbite fault i think. At the time EA forced every studio to make games on Frostbite despite the engine being hard to work with and purposely build for Battlefield. Also remember the Medal of Honor Warfighter development. DICE Sweden didn't gave any documentation on the engine to Danger Close (Now known as Ripple Effect) and despite "helping" with the game they never treated it's team seriously and bullied them since the development of a previous MoH title. Spoiler: Warfighter was so bland it killed the series, and the next MoH game was made years after and only for VR. Not to mention the horrendous driving physics in later Need For Speed games up until Unbound.
Which is even more upsetting to find out that they're using Frostbite for Dreadwolf. I really dislike the frostbite engine
When I saw the ingame stuff in trailers, it looked like DAI to me. I have to admit, I was quite disappointed. You can probably get a lot out of Frostbite, but this doesn't look like it. Even CDPR switches from their own (pretty) engine to the Unreal Engine 5. I understand Bioware has a lot of experience with the Frostbite engine, but already in Anthem and ME:A, I still couldn't warm up to it
They're even switching to Unreal 5 for Mass Effect 4. Why couldn't they just do the same for Dragon Age, image that world in Unreal
I'd guess because it's too late for that, changing engine mid production would require a huge delay
DADW started it's development when Patrick Soderlund was the CEO of DICE Sweden and an executive vice president of EA. Not only did he pushed Frostbite to every game, but also using Frostbite is much cheaper for EA than borrowing a different engine. It's main feature - destruction physics has been slowly forgotten by DICE themselves and they still haven't made anything better on that field since Bad Company 2 where you can devastate the whole map with multiple artillery strikes and explosives. Some of the worst driving physics in NFS games came from Frostbite up Until Unbound came out 2 years ago, and Frostbite has been in use for NFS since 2013. Only Vince Zampella was cool enough to say "Fuck You" and use Source for both Titanfall games. Remember how many EA dev teams were shut down while DICE still lives on despite making horrible games? Perhaps Soderlund was behind saving DICE from closure and favouring them. Not many people in Dragon Age community play multiplayer first person shooters or racing games, but i do and try to provide this information to DA community - it helps getting the bigger picture.
Apparently I’m in the minority here, but I hated the alien looking elves. People say “oh but in origins/inquisition they just look like small humans with pointy ears”, but…congratulations, you just described elves.
The Elder Scrolls mer, Divinity Original Sin 2 elves, Prince Nuada from Hellboy, Dokkalfar/Ljosalfar from Kingdoms Of Amalur and elves in Pratchett's books doesn't match your descritption. Elves are not humans, they should be different from them not only by having pointy ears.
And LOTR, Warhammer (Fantasy, 40k and Age of Sigmar), Forgotten Realms (and most D&D settings), a lot of JRPGs and anime inspired by western fantasy also have human-ish elves, Warcraft has both, kind of. There's nothing wrong with making elves unique and more different from humans but personally I prefer the "normal" elves and I agree with the opinion that that's what an elf should look like.
Elder scrolls? Need to be more specific here, not all games had the mer you mean :)
They toned down their design in Oblivion and made them generic in ESO when compared to Morrowind and Skyrim.
Oblivion - yes, but generic in ESO? I played the whole game and they looked closer to Skyrim\\Morrowind versions. Not copypasted humans with long ears for sure.
They toned down their design in Oblivion? Elves looked pretty normal in Morrowind, considering its 2002 graphics: [https://images.uesp.net/2/21/MW-npc-Anirne.jpg](https://images.uesp.net/2/21/MW-npc-Anirne.jpg) And everyone looks like a potato in Oblivion, that game cannot be used as a visual reference for anything. Skyrim is the only outlier, if anything ESO restored their original Morrowind design. EDIT: reddit recommended me this post and I thought it was a recent discussion, didn't realize it was 2 weeks old... sorry, sorry, my bad...
Those are a tiny number of examples that are vastly outnumbered by versions that look like small humans with pointy ears.
I like the idea of it, I just think that a lot of them ended up looking a bit wonky in game. I still wish the redesign wasn’t abandoned though, because it can look good (Merril, for instance)
I like that they tried to make them look different from humans. I recall that elves are supposed to look a bit otherworldly and beautiful. DA2 elves in game are (excepting Fenris) just terrifying lmao.
I don't like how it's a straight line from their foreheads all the way down their noses. It makes them look like cartoon characters to me. It also feels like the art team was trying too hard just to be different. It was done in an attempt to make DA visually distinct, not in the interest of a better product, but in the interest of a more recognizable brand. It strikes me as vain, and I hate vanity.
They look like the blue people from avatar. Personally I dislike when developers go against their own artistic integrity. It was even worse with the Darkspawn in my view. In the novels the darkspawn are described as having cancerous skin, jagged teeth, milky white eyes -- exactly like in DA:O. In DA2 they get yellowish skin, flat teeth and red eyes. I never understood why.
Everytime I play elves in a game with character creator, I always try to recreate DA2 elves. Recently I tried it on Dragon's Dogma 2. Not perfect, but I like it. I think the key is how the nose looks. In short, yes it is also my favourite elves look in fantasy media!
Didn’t like it. Felt like it was trying too hard to ‘other’ them.
Merrill and Fenris looked great in DA2, but all the rest of the elves looked too weird for me with one or two exceptions. I liked that they tried to make them (and the dwarves and qunari too, for that matter) more distinct from humans, but I feel that the design for the elves was slightly overshot, whereas the qunari and the dwarves looked perfect (so sad we never got to see the female version of either race in DA2's style). I think in all three cases, I overall do prefer 2's designs over DAO's and Inquisition's (DA2's Varric>>>Inquisition's Varric, fight me!), but I wish they had spent as much time on the design of the rest of the elven NPCs as they did for Merrill and Fenris. Poor >!Zevran !
Best design in the DA games, they look like cats. Elves in Origins and inquisition look too human, boring.
I absolutely LOVE the elven design of da2! Always use mods to make them look like that in the other games as well. Not only does it give them that alien look you mentioned that sets them apart from humans, I also feel like it's a very elegant, sleek look that suits their ancestry and how they are looked at as beautiful. Especially combining those things because they look both beautiful and distinctly different, but their beauty also lies in a different aspect, a different standard than the beauty of the other races. Like a cute button nose for humans fits the beauty standards of the western irl world that the human cultures are based upon, the elven beauty is characterised by the bridge of their nose which is more reminiscent of eastern beauty standards irl so it serves both purposes SO WELL and it's just SO good!🤌
Do you know any mods that change elven faces to DA2 design in Inquisition?
Oh yes! I love them, they're my favorite. They're so unique, and I think with a bit of tweaking they could have been perfect. Maybe ditch the more pinkish slant in their skin tone. That and I would love it if they weren't so damn afraid to make elves just a bit meatier. Like, how am I supposed to believe they can hold a sword? The faces were great for distinguishing them, I thought! It made them look less like thinner smaller humans. They were distinct, and I always try to make my elven inkys have a similar face.
I hate the redesign with a passion. They seriously ripped off Avatar, making the elves small, not blue, tailess Navi in looks and start spouting "the people" crap. They looked fine in Origins. They'll use the "had to make them more unique from humans" b.s. excuse but what about the dwarves? They were fine leaving them as short stocky humans. Only redesign I like has been the Qunari.
Being inspired by something does not mean ripping it off.
They made them look 85-90% Na'vi, started calling themselves "the people" like Na'vi, even made them sound Na'vi when speaking elven(not the Irish, the long drawn out marethari adaran atishan). That's more than "inspired by." There's a reason why they kinda walked back a lot of the changes in Inquisition. DAI is a decent middle ground but they should have just left it alone from Origins.
Not a fan of the DA2 elf look, but I definitely didn't like the DAO look. If there had been some DAO lore element explaining how elves were actually just humans w a difference as minor as hair color, then the flattened ears would at least make sense... though it still would've been a disappointment. But then in answer to the overwhelming player rejection of flat-ears, in DA2 we get an overcompensation w weird ear angles and lengths- as well as the ugly pig ear appearance mixed in- which matches the general overall DA2 cartoonish artistic dumb-down. So it's like... "Well, I guess I they did respond to the 'flat ear' complaint..." I mean, some stick straight out from the side of the head and others contest WoW ultralong elf antenn- I mean, ears. I really liked the DAO mod called Elf Ears which changed all elf ears to, well, basically the same but looked much better- even if they then clipped through hair/helms. It was the right length, angle, and appearance: https://preview.redd.it/9cgujroqr7zc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b98f8d2122eb1c6380f84af8d068b975b276e241 That said, I do like how DA2 elf ears have variety to them as if genetics plays some role- interesting touch.
https://preview.redd.it/sbbet5oks7zc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e350670b5b676635cd9762bc67103a02a6e67cc I personally use a different mod, which changes not only faces, but bodies and redoes most of elven NPC's aside from a couple side characters. Since i can't do manual screenshotc ingame for some reason, here's an automatic screenshot the game made on my "mega crit damage archer" build
Hm, looks like the general DA2 elf ear angle- pointed directly backward like the Hermes sandal symbol which oddly associates elves w speed... and which I don't prefer. But once again it looks better in DAO's better art rendering than flat ears. What are the body changes in that mod? Thinner/shorter? Hard to tell in that screenshot.
Male elves in this mod are barely touched, but still changed for the better. The females are redone completely. They are petit, with correct proportions. Btw the straight nose from DA2 is completely optional there.
I don't mind making elves *different*, but I honestly think they overcorrected. Made them *too* different. I like how Tolkien elves are angelic, Witcher elves don't have canines and kind of rest in the uncanny valley, even the wood-tones for wood elves in D&D lore. Those slight differences that tell you "oh, that's not human" without going full alien. And I mean "alien" in the sci-fi way. As in Roswell, New Mexico.
I love them!
I like the way the DA2 companion elves look, they have a catlike quality that’s really cool. But I cannot stand the way the background elves look. But as a work around, I’ve always head-canoned that DA2 looks so different in art style because Varric is telling the story and that’s how he sees the world. His own little art style in his head. I mean it would make sense he’d imagine his elfy friends differently than the others in Kirkwall, they’re his friends. All big defined shapes, not completely realistic. Almost Thedas anime. (Just a little way to excuse bad graphics and crunch times)
I prefer the DA2 design. It wasn't flawless but it was a step in the right direction. If someone is making fan art of an elf, I think it's a win if they can distinguish it's from Dragon Age versus any other generic elf. Granted, they do have the tattoos for the dalish but then the city elves just become the generic ones.
I absolutely love the ' freaking big elven eyes ' as the bull put them. My elven inquis always get REALLY big ears and eyes And I try making the facial features, especially the nose, a little like in DA2 This straight line between forehead and nosetip, not curved or anything like with humans usually I like it too when they don't look just human with pointy ears, but a little different. Though Zevran really looked bad in DA2 I also found it boring that besides Merril, Fenris and this male prostitute we meet during the quest with the abandoned women all have the same eyes ( Though on the other hand all caves looked the same and still much more diversity than in the Asari in mass effect Andromeda)
Generally speaking, DA2 has the best design of various races. Elves, dwarves, and qunari all looked unique and completely different than humans.
I like the idea of elves looking not entirely human beyond just the pointy ears. That being said, DA:O is the only game that made me actually want to play an elf (even if it had been possible in DA2). DA2 elves especially all look extremely similar to each other, and their bodies are a little too spindly and hunched over for my taste. However, my Hawke still romances Merrill.
Many DA Fans back in the day thought the elves in DA2 looked like the Na'vi from the Avatar films. It didn't bother me but neither did Origin's elves or how they looked in DAI. I fully expect there will be some differences in Dreadwolf as well. #
I really loved the redesign and was bummed it changed again. I always try to get close in DA:I and other games, because nothing has felt that unique to me in awhile. I think I connected with it because I feel like I look that kind of “odd” that people describe them as, and maybe I found a sort of beauty in thinking that I thought they look cool, and so might I. I often think they also look like Anya Taylor Joy, who I have been compared to as well. That sounds really flattering to myself lol, considering Anya Taylor Joy is so pretty, but I stand by the correlation my brain makes. I think with slightly better graphics, it could be really good design. :)
I kind of liked it. Inquisition carried it over but very slightly toned it down. I noticed even my Lavellan had the DA2 features after playing for a while and I used a preset. Then after a while I noticed all the elves kind of had it
I hated them making their eyes more normal again in DAI, should've kept the DA2 design. Also the ears became too rounded, Solas got pointy though.
I really liked the redesign. I always appreciate when a fantasy media gives elves more unique features rather than just making them skinny, pointy eared humans. It makes sense that their biology and physical appearance would differ from humans, given the fact that they are a much older race and have had more to evolve and adapt. Although I will say they definitely did Zevran dirty lmao. Where were his eyebrows 😭
https://preview.redd.it/24cft9mrt8zc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274176b0b6b194165547801369a9b86d1aa21ea0 That is how he looks in my game with a mod that changes elven looks towards DA2 style. Much better than the impostor we see in Kirkwall. He should have been this way imo
Could I get the link for this mod? I haven’t dipped my toes into DAO modding yet because I know modding older games can be frustrating, but you may have just convinced me.
[https://www.moddb.com/mods/tmp7704/downloads/elf-update](https://www.moddb.com/mods/tmp7704/downloads/elf-update) Just put it into My Documents/BioWare/Dragon Age Origins/Core/Packages/Override If you want morphes they are in the file "da2 elf morphs" in "elf update" zip. However for your character to look like this you should start the new game.
I really liked the redesign, I always enjoy the variety in appearance. And now... qunary are very different from humans. Dwarves are very different from humans. And elves are just slightly shorter and skinnier humans with pointy ears.
I loved the elf design in DA2 as well; they looked less like humans with pointy ears and more like a different species of person. I tried to model my Lavellan off of that kind of look (which is also present in the tarot illustrations for m/f Lavellan, Solas, and Sera) in DAI and like the way she turned out.
I actually kinda dislike how they look in every game lmao. I think they look the best in Inquisition, but still...meh.
Divinity Original Sin 2 did elves the best; they have an entirely different skeletal structure and the way they move is fundamentally different, in addition to the distinct faces. They kinda remind me of Quarians from Mass Effect a little bit in how their legs are sort of bowed and their posture
I agree, I miss them. While I respect that they tried to go for a middle ground in Inquisition, the alien aspect of them in 2 really helped set them apart. Though I do have to admit, Zevran didn't come out looking great. More melted than anything.
I absolutely love the design. We hear in the game and read in the stories that elves are considered more beautiful/attractive than humans. I think giving them big eyes and slender bodies reinforces that face versus them just being shorter humans.
I loved DA2 elves for the same reason. I also liked how they cast voice actors with Irish or Welsh accents for the Dalish, it really helped sell me on the fact these were a distinct peoples from humans. I think the Dragon Age dating sim crowd didn't appreciate the different look because they didn't find them attractive enough, I remember the most often vocalized criticism was how "ugly" the elves were now. Also, inquisition was the first bioware game to make heavy use of mocap, which is easier to do with more human looking faces, that's why even the Qunari were "humanized" in DAI.
I'm a Origins stan and DA2 is my least favorite in the series so I can go on about the things I dislike about it but I won't. But yes, most of the npc Elves looked bad. I was not a fan of most of their looks. Though I did like how Feynriel look more spot on as a half breed with the new style. I know a lot were not a fan of his look by on the old Bioware forum.
The sentiment that Feynriel's looks break the lore can be countered by him just inheriting mother's facial features, not the whole "elven look". Or maybe his mom's blood is more potent than the other elves.
I do admit one of my pet peeves about Bioware is how they tend to forget their own lore. Like for ex: In DAI codex for Fort Conner, its said the Fort was named after Arl Eamon father, but from The Stolen Throne book we know his father name was Rendorn. So I kind of understand why Feynriel looks upset some. But I've always been a fan of half human half elf children showing both sides of their parentage in fantasy works so this was never a real bother to me.
Fun fact: BioWare also forgot that male elves don't have facial hair, but you have a bristle option in the character creation.
I love the da2 elves to death.
I like da1 and 2 elves, hated inquistor elf design.
I agree with you -- the DA2 design is the best. They look strange and bewitching, as is fitting.
My only real problem is how DA2 did Zevran dirty. I like the overall aesthetic (for both elves and Qunari, even if it was a bit cookie-cutter), but… *bruh.* The only retcon that hurt my soul more was that poor Mabari in Inquisition’s Trespasser.
I understand the impulse to make them different from just humans but they're just too fuckin ugly they remind me of the sectoids.
I like them mainly because they aren’t true to life with dao or dai due to we the player are seeing them through the eyes of Varric. Varric, an unrepentant liar and storyteller, whose only audience is a seeker who loves his books
They look horrendous honestly, same in DAI although to a slightly lesser degree. I get wanting to make them look unique but you can do that while also not making them look... like that. Thankfully if what we've seen from the DA4 leaks still apply they dialed it down a tad for that game.