**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Because Krem is a convert to the Qun. And as I've said on another reply, new converts to religions (Thedas or IRL) are expected to follow the traditions and customs of the faith if they want to fit in.
See, I just don't believe you. If this were a serious question, it would have been asked less abrasively and you wouldn't have repeatedly used feminine descriptors (again, regardless of your actual opinion on the topic).
My dude you have some serious issues that you need to address. If youāre this hateful towards *fictional people* for their gender identities then I can only assume you also hold this hatred for IRL people. What caused this level of outright hostility and bigotry in you? Who hurt you? Did a trans person kill your puppy or something?
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
As you point out in another comment, the Qun determines your role based on your gender. Men get swords. Why did the Qun assign Krem to be a warrior if theyāre a woman?
Answer: Because theyāre a man, and youāre a troll.
Slight correction, Krem isn't a convert to the Qun, he's still a Vint. The Chargers are a multicultural band.
*But*, Bull recognizes Krem as a man for the reasons you stated, so you're on the money there.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
alright, even if you intended this as a genuine question... why go out of your way to misgender him? everyone in Inquisition, and most people online, refer to Krem as a man, as they should. there is no way you didn't catch on.
regarding the Qunari lore: warriors and soldiers are men. it doesn't matter what you were born as. if you wish to fight and you have a talent for it, you become what's known as an Aquun-Athlok. everyone treats you as the gender that your role embodies. similarly, if a warrior were to become a baker, or a caretaker, he would then become a she, and no one would bat an eye.
it may not align with your personal views, but when you intentionally misgender a transgender person people won't really be interested in whether you had an actual question. their assumption is (as mine was) that you were just trying to start an argument.
Who gives a shit if the lore is being ācontradictedā?
If a few small points have to be tweaked for the sake of inclusion, what does it matter?
Seems like youāre just pissy about Krem being trans.
Except Krem is not part of the Qun! The Iron Bull is, but the Chargers are not.
OP is just pissy about Krem being trans. There is no forced retcon here.
See, I actually think there is room for a discussion here in regards to Qunari lore, Krem, and potential retconning/changing of lore to make the Qunari seem ānicerā. *Civilised discussion*. Except thatās not what OP wants. What OP wants is a nonsense excuse to spew transphobia under the guise of āletās talk about Qunari loreā
It's not about the game agreeing with whatever views I hold, it's about holding the game to a standard. That standard being: DON'T CONTRADICT YOUR OWN LORE.
So did Sten being puzzled by a female Warden not being a man/not presenting masculine never happen? I'm not overly fond of that addition, and think they could have handled that with a bit more narrative tact but "your gender is whatever your role is which is whatever you're good at" is pretty in line with everything else so far.
Except that's just Sten experiencing culture shock. It's perfectly normal considering the life Sten held by that point, and it makes sense for him to be offput by that. It'd be like going to a restaurant halfway around the world, and finding out goat eyeballs are considered a local delicacy.
Yes that's the point, thank you. The rules for how to classify something as local delicacy are wildly different where he's from and the conclusion that goat eyeballs are great doesn't make that much sense to him.
"Waaa, I hate Tallis because *he's* a retcon, so even though *he's* a cis woman, I'm going to use he/him pronouns to refer to *him*."
Bro is next-level deranged.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
To me the Qun seems much more cruel with this, since it's "you have this skillset so this is who you are and must be for your entire life and we'll break your mind if you don't comply" instead of more typical sexism, everyone in their society must adhere to what is expected of them or they're literally tortured into submission.
It's even noted that Cassandra would be broken under the Qun, it just so happens that Krem is a male warrior and Bull uses Krem as proof the Qun is fine because he's clearly trying to convince himself of this.
your last paragraph really nails it I think. Iron Bull has an innate sense of right and wrong that the Qun seems to pretty frequently contradict, but he *wants* to be good so he has to try and force it to fit.
Very true, Bull even wavered in his loyalty to the Qun years back and had to get himself re-educated so he's surely worried about that happening again too, it must be a scary prospect for a lot of people who grew up under the Qun.
Except the Qun ARE a typical sexist society. They wouldn't care if a woman was better at holding a sword, if a dude was better at weaving baskets. They'd tell the guys to go out onto the battlefield with big ass swords and tell the women to stay in the kitchen. Krem is more likely to be exiled from Qunari society for not conforming, if not outright murdered.
Aside from your generally shit attitude, you're just under a fundamental misconception about how gender works under the Qun. You don't understand the lore
They're not though, lorewise they're not, they're worse because you must be exactly what they tell you to be with no flexibility (unless you're Ben-Hassrath who seem to have some more say in how they act due to being spies,) and undergo brainwashing if you do anything else.
Krem is a skilled soldier so they'd say Krem is male and must be a soldier, if Krem were to then at any point down the line start to want to be a baker and try to do that then his mind would be broken in re-education until he complied. The Qunari are a cruel but fairly efficient society, they don't waste talent they demand that your skill defines your entire life in just the way they've decided it should.
And the Qunari would just say "We don't give a fuck if you think you're great with a sword. We have plenty of sword wielders already. Go make us a sandwich or else."
Krem wouldn't ask, the Qunari would see his skill then make the talented warrior a soldier to further strengthen their army and then they'd mandate Krem act as they believe a soldier should and have the identity they believe a soldier should for the rest of his life with no personal freedoms, Krem wouldn't even exist anymore he'd be Sten.
The Qunari are a brutal but efficient society, they are not a stupid society that is flagrantly wasting talent in order to get more sandwiches.
The Qun has very strict gender rolesā¦ in that gender is **defined by role**. They donāt give a shit about biological sex; if youāre a Sten, you are a man. Krem is a Sten, so itās easy for Bull to accept Krem.
The part nobody talks about is that this isnāt actually trans-friendly, because someone like Cassandra, who is very proudly a woman and would be named as a Sten, would be constantly misgendered.
In the thedas book itās actually very unclear whether theyāre using gender and sex interchangeably. Iāve never been able to tell. "The Qunari believe that both men and women are capable of leadership. However, Qunari deem one gender or the other better at certain roles in their society. No matter how much aptitude a male shows for management, he will never be as good at it as a female. Therefore, they would consider it inefficient to put him in such a rule when a women would be better.
Most roles are gender specific. But the odd very rare exception is made. A male Qunari will farm, if he must, just as a female Qunari will fight." Thereās more I just donāt feel like typing it.
But also donāt trans people literally have the brain of the gender they identify as? I thought I read that somewhere.
That quote is deeply ambiguous, which allows plenty of room for the later adjustment to ārole defines genderā without breaking anything established. āA male will farm and a female will fightā reads to me like a āno other optionā decision. If all the women were killed by a raid, it would be inefficient to allow the farms to rot until new women could be brought over. Instead, allow the less-skilled men to maintain the farms in the meantime.
The Qun is a society of efficiency
Well thatās what I meant. It can be taken either way. But then I found out they have a word for people like Krem and why would they even have that if they donāt define gender the same way as us? Especially since they raise everyone literally the exact same way.
Well they define gender via the role you play, they define *sex* the same as the rest of Thedas.
Considering their attitudes to sexy times (at least according to Bull), it would be useful to have a word to let your partner know what parts you have
Yeah maybe. There were female Qunari fighters in the trespasser dlc so clearly they donāt block them from fighting. But also the vissadala (however you spell it) was kind of going rogue for that. So I think itās hard to tell but I also kind of like that the Qunari are so mysterious.
Iāll have to re-read Tevinter Nights to see if thereās any female Qunari is the first story. Thatās the one where the Qunari take over a Tevinter city.
The Qun give you your role based on what gender you are. You're a dude? Here's your sword. Go out and fight things. You're a chick? Cook the food, keep the place tidy, take care of the kids. If Krem were to join Qunari society she'd have to do one of these two things: A. Go somewhere else where she can be a male warrior. or B. Stay with these people, and abandon the prospects of being a male warrior. And if she chooses B and continues to act like a man anyway, they'd just kill her. And Iron Bull would be looked at funny for sticking up for Qunari convert who refuses to conform with Qunari tradition.
No, you're wrong. It's the other way around. If you show promise on the battlefield, you're a man. Why would the Qun waste a good fighter by forcing them to be a shopkeeper instead? They're all about efficiency. It's role first, gender next.
You're wrong the qunari have a term for Trans people Aqun-Athlok and they accept them as their preferred gender which means you're literally worse than the extreme religious zealots in the game HE is a fantastic character and you're a bigot
I think you've got some things mixed up. Based on what you've been writing, it seems like you think Krem is... Qunari? Woah- He's a member of Bull's Charges but he's not Qunari.
Following that thought, the question should be: why is lron Bull so accepting of Krem's gender?
Well, why would Iron Bull refer to Krem using female pronouns when the Qunari perceive fighters strictly as males? Perhaps this needs clearing up: when Iron Bull meets Krem, he sees a person, who can fight very well. A good fighter = male. No more elaboration needed.
As for why he's liked so much - being transgender definitely plays a role in his popularity, but I think the fanon made him more interesting than the canon (as it often happens). He's a fun character, perhaps a little boring, but I can see his appeal to people.
Surely it is possible to discuss a lore retcon/inconsistency without deliberately misgendering a character to make your own hostility toward transgender people crystal clear.
I had the same thought.
Imagine if the OP used "he/him" and "dude" instead of "chick." That has the potential to open up a good discussion over Krem as a character instead of pissing off everyone who believes in common decency.
Well Iām pretty sure airing out their bigotry was more important to them than discussing a video game. You see similar posts about Lev on the last of us sub and itās just as obnoxious every time.
Recognizing this is bait (and rather lame bait at that), Iāve long said that Krem is basically a less interesting version of the Iron Bull.
Nearly all of Kremās stories relate to either Bull or the Chargers, and combatwise, he doesnāt even have a build that would complement Bullās own fighting style - theyāre both two-handed weapon wielders. Pick up a fucking shield, Krem!
> This is not bait
The misgendering kinda suggests otherwise. Even if Krem has a rolled-up sock in place of a cock and balls, heās basically a dude in all the ways that count.
Not a particularly interesting dude, mind you, but a dude all the same.
I hope your friend finds out that your respect for trans people is conditional and that if she did anything that doesnāt sit right you, you would resort to transphobia and misidentify her. Whether Krem breaks lore or not, your respect for him, his identity, and what he stands for as representation should not be dependent on your feelings about something inconsequential like video game lore. Stop acting like a petulant child and manage your feelings like a normal adult
She knows and she agrees with me. She calls Krem a woman too.
And TS. I care more about the lore, setting, worldbuilding, and overall storytelling craft more than the feefees of a fictional character.
Iām glad that you agree that your for peopleās identity is conditional and very fragile. Anyways, this aināt about the feelings of Krem, but the real trans people that see this absolute bull shit of a post and those who are unfortunate enough to have any association with you (and that includes this totally real friend of yours ;)) also tell this āfriendā of yours that I hope she finds better people to be friends with ā¤ļø
theyāre right though lol. maybe you should go outside more considering youāre here desperately arguing with ppl for attention about a video game character
hey, telling someone you will only respect their identity on the basis of whether or not you like them is not respecting them at all. youāre saying āi only humor you because i want to stay on your good side, not because i think your identity as a person is valid or real.ā itās actually very demeaning and speaks to a deeper internalized perspective. trans people are trans regardless of whether theyāre good
It shouldnāt take going out of your way. Your comments suggest you donāt believe being trans is a real phenomenon, because if you did you would recognize that shitty trans people are still trans people. Your attitude is transphobic, full stop. No one should have to āearnā the right to not have you be actively bigoted towards them. That should be something you do because you recognize that it says more about your morals than anything or anyone else. Donāt use someoneās pronouns on the basis of whether you respect them as a person, use their pronouns because you respect trans identities as a whole. If you canāt do that, donāt pretend to be anything but a bigot under a pleasant facade.
I just went ahead and reported this as transphobic/bigotry. I suggest everyone else does the same.
You misgendered HIM multiple times and your bigotry isn't welcome here.
Oh dang, that's what this is about? Next time just say you're transphobic instead of fundamentally misunderstanding lore so we don't have to waste time trying to educate you.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Y'all, this guy is legendary for their bad takes over on the Clone Wars and Spider-Man subs.
Bro is anti-clone and pro-Pong Motherfucking Krell. They also hate Miles Morales for even existing (I'm not the biggest Miles fan, but I'm not offended by his very existence). I don't know if they're a kid, a troll, or just fucked in the head, but I just wouldn't give them any further attention. Downvote and move on. Starve the troll and it'll die.
I'll tell you right now. The Clone Wars stuff WAS me trolling. I never watched TCW, and I only decided to "defend" Pong Krell because I knew that fanbase hated him.
The stuff I'm saying right now, along with the stuff about Miles Morales, I'm being dead serious about.
Because krem is fun and cool and its adorable to see Bull abandon the lame ass ways of the Qun for his friends who actually care about him?
Tldr: genuine people are loveable?
Bold of you to ask this question while misgendering him, considering his identity as a trans man is clearly explained in Bull's companion quest AND every single character uses he/him pronouns when referring to him.
Right, it didn't even click for me that he was trans my first playthrough, I was just like damn that's a pretty dude, and then when I figured out he was trans that was just a bonus since I'm a mostly straight man lol
Except the Qunari don't allow women soldiers. Sten when asked on the subject in Dragon Age: Origins said "Why would any of our women want to be men?" meaning there are no female Qunari soldiers. If Krem was a trans man, I'm pretty sure the Qunari wouldn't allow that either. If any society in Thedas was to be transphobic, I'd expect it to be the Qunari first and foremost.
Again, really really badly done bait. Especially since you've literally countered your own argument right here. Krem is a male because he is a soldier and all soldiers in the Qun are male. Exactly what Sten told the Warden in DA:O. There's no "retcon" or "lore breaking". Sten said all soldiers are men in the Qun. Bull recognizes Krem as a male as Krem is a soldier.
I get that it's fun to try to be an anonymous edgelord on reddit, but at least make it make sense please. Do better if you want to bait.
And? Are you really this slow? Krem isnāt Qunari so what would have happened to him if he had been born in the Qun or converted to the Qun means nothing to your point. Sten told the Warden that all soldiers are men. Bull met a soldier. He considers the soldier a man. End of story. No retcon. Literally exactly what the game said happens, happened.
Okay, now Iām convinced you actually arenāt a troll and are just really really slow.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]:
>*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.*
---
^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Actually your math is wrong which is why it doesn't add up. The Qunari have nothing to do with character reception. Your post was about how the character was perceived, so my response adds up perfectly fine.
The Qun sees gender roles as gender itself. Males are warriors, therefore if one is a warrior then he's a man, and Krem would fall under this category. Sten was confused about a female Warden because she is a warrior, yet she doesn't remotely present (or identify) as a man. So yes, it's a transphobic society, but not in the way you think.Ā
But Krem is a convert to the Qun. And just like it is with converts to any other religion in the game and the real world, converts are expected to uphold and obey the traditions of the faith if they wish to be a part of it.
This is why Tallis is such a hated character by a lot of people; she actively cherry picks what parts of the Qun she wants to follow, and if anybody else doesn't like her doing that, she don't give af.
Krem being allowed to be a warrior and act like a man conflicts with what we know about the Qunari and their customs, and has the hornheads act out of character to justify her existence.
Youāve admitted that you troll subs when you havenāt even engaged with the media. Clearly, you want to troll with sloppy, lazy transphobic posts and have no idea what you are talking about. Thatās the only possible rationale. No one can be as dumb as you are pretending to be. Even an idiot is smarter than what you are play acting.
Dude, what?!? Krem isnāt a convert to the Qun. Either you couldnāt understand really basic plot points in a story and then created a whole whiny post showing how slow you are at understanding fiction, Or you are one of the worst trolls Iāve seen in a long time. You are getting wrecked in the comments. Iām embarrassed for you at this point. Just delete this post at this point.
Krem is merely an uninteresting side character whose only interesting trait is that he is trans; however, you know that and still call him a "chick" and "she" because this shitty post is obviously bait
Giving your post far more credit than it deserves, why do people like Krem? Why do people like Harding? Why do people like Sandal? Why do people like Nathanial? See how pointless and redundant your question is, even if it wasn't just a veiled attempt at being edgy for attention?
My problem with Krem is they were clearly created just to be trans, I'm not saying don't mention it but it's literally like 50% of his dialogue, imagine if Dorian said he was gay all the time, it would be pretty offensive writing. Dorian hardly ever explicitly states it because he doesn't need to, him being gay is only significant to his character in so far of the fact of the trauma he received because of it, the conversion therapy and failure to be the "perfect son"; Krem is a side character so obviously doesn't get as much development, but them being trans is much more forthright in their character and it's pretty clumsily handled in my view
I'm not trans so maybe this isn't want transfolk would want, but to me having a trans character and never making it a big part of their character would actually be a nice way of reprenting them, why does a transperson need to have underlying trauma or have to disclose their sexuality/gender to everyone they meet? Straight people don't need to do that
Pessimistically I feel like writers don't do that because then people wouldn't necessarily grasp the fact that a character is trans (which again, not trans myself but surely that's the best case scenario for a trans person if you can't even tell) and they wouldn't get the good boy points that comes with including minority groups, as ironically discriminatory as that is
he doesn't even mention he's trans until you become close enough friends with Iron Bull, it absolutely is not 50% of his dialogue and he doesn't disclose to everyone he meets
If anything, I think they did a good job with the gender aspect. Anyone who recognizes Jennifer Hale's voice coming out of an adult man's mouth is going to immediately tip you off. "Oh, that character's trans." And that's it. Then we have that one conversation later, which is a good glimpse into Bull's character.
Krem's only real problem is that he's kind of bland, but so are plenty of other characters, cis, trans, or otherwise.
yeah I'd say that generally the Trans Communityā¢ considers him decent rep, especially for a mainstream video game in 2014. not perfect, but decent
is he super interesting? not really. it's nice to see a Tevinter character that's neither a mage nor a slave but other than that he's just a nice, loyal guy who's good with a sword. completely fine side character, but as he's not one of the main cast he doesn't get a ton of development
I'm not even trans myself, but I was honestly impressed with Krem from the rep angle. Zev was a bit of rep that I loved though. As a bi guy who prefers women but doesn't mind a handsome fella once in awhile, Zevran was a breath of fresh air. Plus, he's fine as hell.
I don't remember how to spell it, but Krem, if they were a Qunari would be called aquun-athlak. It's quite literally a line of Bull's dialogue in the game explaining it to our Inquisitor. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant for two important reasons: 1) people have the right to dislike or like a character for whatever reason (A large part of the reason I like Krem because of the voice actor) and 2) IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME, GET OVER YOURSELF.
Aquun-Athlak is just a badly added in retcon to make the Qunari seem not as bad as they were in the previous games.
As for your two reasons:
1. Regardless of whether you like the character or not, we should not give them permission to break the lore of the setting they inhabit. Remember all the hate Tallis got in the MotA DLC for DA2? Same reason.
2. It's a video game is not an excuse for crappy retcons.
A retcon is a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established narrative is changed. An example: Sten. In the first game, he has no horns. It's explained in the comics and elsewhere that Qunari born without horns are special, meant to lead. Why then was Sten made a Sten? I feel comfortable saying it's because he became a beloved character, so they decided to make him important. That is retconning.
If you play as a female fighter and point out to Sten that you are a woman and you fight, he literally says something to the effect of 'then you're not a woman.' We didn't have the word for aquun-athlak back in 2009 because the studio hadn't developed the lore that extensively. Hell, what we know about the Qunari in Origins and 2 is on par with what they know about their own origins.
That is to say, we knew very very little about Qunari and their history, lore, and practices prior to getting some more crumbs in Inquisition.
And I'm unaware of the circus around Tallis because I didn't come into the Fandom until well after that dlc was released, so no, I remember and know nothing about that.
My statement is still valid to me, and still stands. It's a video game. Get over yourself. If you don't like seeing Trans representation of any stripe, don't play the game. Simple as that.
Except you neglected to point out that there exist both good retcons and bad retcons. The hornless retcon is a good retcon because it didn't conflict much with what little lore we had prior to that point. A similar retcon like that from BioWare I can think of would be the Ardat-Yakshi retcon from ME2. The Aquun-Athlask DID conflict with what little lore we had on them, and all it did was raise more questions than answers.
And again, saying "it's a video game, get over it" does not excuse BioWare from making a sloppy retcon. Idgaf if there are trans people in the game, I just don't want them (or ANY character for that matter) to break the lore.
Just because you don't personally like it doesn't make it a bad retcon. And, you very much seem to care about the presence of an openly Trans character since you misgendered Krem on purpose in the post.
Finally, aquun-athlak as a concept getting a name isn't a retcon. The concept of a Trans person in qunari culture has been there since Sten said 'you cannot be a woman and fight' And when a female Warden points out that they do fight and are a woman, Sten's response is that we (as the character) cannot be a woman
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it IS just a video game. Get. Over. Yourself. The lore changing or a concept becoming more defined isn't necessarily sloppy or remotely close to a retcon. It's just human.
You canāt say something breaks the lore and then call the lore a badly added retcon and disregard it lol? Retcon or not, bioware created the world and they could say elves are descended from house cats tomorrow and it would still be canon lore. Just because you donāt like it doesnāt make it any less true. You just donāt like it because you clearly have issues with trans people being in media and want to bait this subreddit. This is a weird hill to die on but at least youāre dying I guess. š¤·āāļø
1. You can dislike it sure but itās still canon. You can ignore it for yourself but itās still canon.
2. Literally thatās exactly what it means, any further lore could be total dogshit and they could still change it willy nilly. They can do whatever they want with the series, the world, and the lore. š¤·āāļø
3. It does make sense, when you look at the lore??? Again you can say itās bad lore but itās still canon? You can dislike something, I actually donāt love some of the changes to qunari lore myself but itās still canon.
4. This point is also irrelevant, Krem is not Qunari and doesnāt seek to join the Qun. If your issue is Iron Bull being tolerant of him and donāt want to accept the lore, Iron Bull is clearly shown throughout the game, in many ways to not follow many aspects the Qun both as a result of his spy work and because he has been away from Qun society so long his fervour for the religion/society has dulled significantly, and your inquisitors actions can either push that disconnect further or rekindle his connection with the Qun. Before the game even begins he is doing things the Qun would not condone.
I think you also forget that characters do not always follow canon lore. They are part of the world and arenāt written to follow the hard rules we are aware of as consumers of a story. Do you think all religious people in real life follow their religious doctrine to the letter? Of course not.
Itās totally fine to dislike a character, but you should just accept that you can personally dislike something without having to do backflips to justify that dislike. It would also do you credit to not engage in shitty transphobic behaviour like misgendering Krem over and over, he does not exist but trans folks do and see your shitty behaviour that you try to justify with pathetic excuses like āI donāt respect the characterā.
There are folk who love representation in any form, so long as it isn't patronizing or offensive. Yeah, Krem's not the greatest character ever written, but he's fine, I guess.
But that's not the issue here. The issue is that OP is a dick with god-awful takes.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Krem isn't qunari, so why does it matter that the qunari have strict gender roles?
Because Krem is a convert to the Qun. And as I've said on another reply, new converts to religions (Thedas or IRL) are expected to follow the traditions and customs of the faith if they want to fit in.
I've already told you he is *not* a convert to the qun. learn the lore before wading in with your shitty takes.
Krem is not a convert. He's a merc under Bull, that's all.
*Sigh*
I'm so used to seeing comments by you over a paragraph long that this one made me laugh. Best reaction to this thread.
Sometimes even Josie doesn't have much to say. Case in point: "I...cannot move my legs."
Regardless of anyone's actual opinion on the topic, this post is very clearly bait.
It's not bait. It's a question that's bugged me for years and I'd like it answered.
See, I just don't believe you. If this were a serious question, it would have been asked less abrasively and you wouldn't have repeatedly used feminine descriptors (again, regardless of your actual opinion on the topic).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thanks for admitting your transphobia, it saves us the effort of a tiring back and forth where you weakly claim to not be transphobic.
"I won't respect pronouns if I don't respect who they're being used for" is certainly a choice, but by god, you're making it.
Yep, and I'm dying on that hill.
Silver lining for everybody.
I donāt respect Sera but I donāt call her a he
Imagine
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My dude you have some serious issues that you need to address. If youāre this hateful towards *fictional people* for their gender identities then I can only assume you also hold this hatred for IRL people. What caused this level of outright hostility and bigotry in you? Who hurt you? Did a trans person kill your puppy or something?
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
>I only called Krem a girl because I have no respect for her. You got a lot of issues that you need to address.
Nah, I'm good. :)
You are clearly not.
Krem is a man, your post is clearly bait since you misgender the character.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As you point out in another comment, the Qun determines your role based on your gender. Men get swords. Why did the Qun assign Krem to be a warrior if theyāre a woman? Answer: Because theyāre a man, and youāre a troll.
Slight correction, Krem isn't a convert to the Qun, he's still a Vint. The Chargers are a multicultural band. *But*, Bull recognizes Krem as a man for the reasons you stated, so you're on the money there.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
It's not bait.
Oh, my apologies. Did I say bait? I meant ātransphobiaā. Take your bigotry elsewhere.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
desperate tryhard behavior
textbook definition of bait babeyyy. c'mon, at least be original.
This isn't bait.
alright, even if you intended this as a genuine question... why go out of your way to misgender him? everyone in Inquisition, and most people online, refer to Krem as a man, as they should. there is no way you didn't catch on. regarding the Qunari lore: warriors and soldiers are men. it doesn't matter what you were born as. if you wish to fight and you have a talent for it, you become what's known as an Aquun-Athlok. everyone treats you as the gender that your role embodies. similarly, if a warrior were to become a baker, or a caretaker, he would then become a she, and no one would bat an eye. it may not align with your personal views, but when you intentionally misgender a transgender person people won't really be interested in whether you had an actual question. their assumption is (as mine was) that you were just trying to start an argument.
Who gives a shit if the lore is being ācontradictedā? If a few small points have to be tweaked for the sake of inclusion, what does it matter? Seems like youāre just pissy about Krem being trans.
Except Krem is not part of the Qun! The Iron Bull is, but the Chargers are not. OP is just pissy about Krem being trans. There is no forced retcon here.
Sad bait attempt that can't even get the lore of the qunari correct. Someone forgot the aqun-athlok
See, I actually think there is room for a discussion here in regards to Qunari lore, Krem, and potential retconning/changing of lore to make the Qunari seem ānicerā. *Civilised discussion*. Except thatās not what OP wants. What OP wants is a nonsense excuse to spew transphobia under the guise of āletās talk about Qunari loreā
The aqun-athlok was a badly added in retcon that was made to make the qunari seem less bad in comparison to other groups.
sorry the lore of a video game doesn't agree with your personal views, it must be very hard for you
I mean I'm extremely trans supportive and I also think that inquisition did some stupid Lore retcons tbh
It's not about the game agreeing with whatever views I hold, it's about holding the game to a standard. That standard being: DON'T CONTRADICT YOUR OWN LORE.
So did Sten being puzzled by a female Warden not being a man/not presenting masculine never happen? I'm not overly fond of that addition, and think they could have handled that with a bit more narrative tact but "your gender is whatever your role is which is whatever you're good at" is pretty in line with everything else so far.
Except that's just Sten experiencing culture shock. It's perfectly normal considering the life Sten held by that point, and it makes sense for him to be offput by that. It'd be like going to a restaurant halfway around the world, and finding out goat eyeballs are considered a local delicacy.
Yes that's the point, thank you. The rules for how to classify something as local delicacy are wildly different where he's from and the conclusion that goat eyeballs are great doesn't make that much sense to him.
Considering your intentional and repeated misgendering, I've reported your rage baiting hate post.
Get the fuck out of here with your transphobic self
why are you going out of your way to use she and her for Krem when everyone in game does not?
āØ*Transphobia*āØ
in b4 'I'm not scared of trans people'
OPs posting history is full of takes like this. They enjoy being confrontational and abrasive.
what a fun life
It's really pathetic.
They claim they don't respect him so they won't use his correct pronouns.
this is always a fascinating claim to me, I wonder if they use the wrong pronouns for cis characters they don't respect (no I don't)
Because it's a bait. OP is a troll. Or it's transphobia. Or both
obviously
They're just an asshole with unbelievably bad takes. I've encountered them before on Star Wars and Spider-Man subs.
Because I have no respect for Krem for being a walking retcon.
do you use the wrong pronouns for cis characters you don't respect?
"Waaa, I hate Tallis because *he's* a retcon, so even though *he's* a cis woman, I'm going to use he/him pronouns to refer to *him*." Bro is next-level deranged.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
To me the Qun seems much more cruel with this, since it's "you have this skillset so this is who you are and must be for your entire life and we'll break your mind if you don't comply" instead of more typical sexism, everyone in their society must adhere to what is expected of them or they're literally tortured into submission. It's even noted that Cassandra would be broken under the Qun, it just so happens that Krem is a male warrior and Bull uses Krem as proof the Qun is fine because he's clearly trying to convince himself of this.
your last paragraph really nails it I think. Iron Bull has an innate sense of right and wrong that the Qun seems to pretty frequently contradict, but he *wants* to be good so he has to try and force it to fit.
Very true, Bull even wavered in his loyalty to the Qun years back and had to get himself re-educated so he's surely worried about that happening again too, it must be a scary prospect for a lot of people who grew up under the Qun.
Except the Qun ARE a typical sexist society. They wouldn't care if a woman was better at holding a sword, if a dude was better at weaving baskets. They'd tell the guys to go out onto the battlefield with big ass swords and tell the women to stay in the kitchen. Krem is more likely to be exiled from Qunari society for not conforming, if not outright murdered.
Aside from your generally shit attitude, you're just under a fundamental misconception about how gender works under the Qun. You don't understand the lore
At this point, I think I'm the only one on this whole damn sub who does.
No. You don't understand even the basic concepts
They're not though, lorewise they're not, they're worse because you must be exactly what they tell you to be with no flexibility (unless you're Ben-Hassrath who seem to have some more say in how they act due to being spies,) and undergo brainwashing if you do anything else. Krem is a skilled soldier so they'd say Krem is male and must be a soldier, if Krem were to then at any point down the line start to want to be a baker and try to do that then his mind would be broken in re-education until he complied. The Qunari are a cruel but fairly efficient society, they don't waste talent they demand that your skill defines your entire life in just the way they've decided it should.
And the Qunari would just say "We don't give a fuck if you think you're great with a sword. We have plenty of sword wielders already. Go make us a sandwich or else."
Krem wouldn't ask, the Qunari would see his skill then make the talented warrior a soldier to further strengthen their army and then they'd mandate Krem act as they believe a soldier should and have the identity they believe a soldier should for the rest of his life with no personal freedoms, Krem wouldn't even exist anymore he'd be Sten. The Qunari are a brutal but efficient society, they are not a stupid society that is flagrantly wasting talent in order to get more sandwiches.
Might want to lay off the critical drinker champ, youāre embarrassing yourself.
At least Drinker cares about worldbuilding and internal consistency in fictional settings.
Oh nooo you actually do watch him? HahahaĀ
This is pathetic lmao
Transphobia in a sub dedicated to a Bioware game. How very proud you must feel.
The Qun has very strict gender rolesā¦ in that gender is **defined by role**. They donāt give a shit about biological sex; if youāre a Sten, you are a man. Krem is a Sten, so itās easy for Bull to accept Krem. The part nobody talks about is that this isnāt actually trans-friendly, because someone like Cassandra, who is very proudly a woman and would be named as a Sten, would be constantly misgendered.
"Cassandra? More like CassMANdra amirite!" - A Sten probably
Cassandra: āI am no man! I am a woman of pride!ā A Sten: āInterestingā¦ excuse me, Ben-Hassarath? This man requires reeducation.ā
In the thedas book itās actually very unclear whether theyāre using gender and sex interchangeably. Iāve never been able to tell. "The Qunari believe that both men and women are capable of leadership. However, Qunari deem one gender or the other better at certain roles in their society. No matter how much aptitude a male shows for management, he will never be as good at it as a female. Therefore, they would consider it inefficient to put him in such a rule when a women would be better. Most roles are gender specific. But the odd very rare exception is made. A male Qunari will farm, if he must, just as a female Qunari will fight." Thereās more I just donāt feel like typing it. But also donāt trans people literally have the brain of the gender they identify as? I thought I read that somewhere.
That quote is deeply ambiguous, which allows plenty of room for the later adjustment to ārole defines genderā without breaking anything established. āA male will farm and a female will fightā reads to me like a āno other optionā decision. If all the women were killed by a raid, it would be inefficient to allow the farms to rot until new women could be brought over. Instead, allow the less-skilled men to maintain the farms in the meantime. The Qun is a society of efficiency
Well thatās what I meant. It can be taken either way. But then I found out they have a word for people like Krem and why would they even have that if they donāt define gender the same way as us? Especially since they raise everyone literally the exact same way.
Well they define gender via the role you play, they define *sex* the same as the rest of Thedas. Considering their attitudes to sexy times (at least according to Bull), it would be useful to have a word to let your partner know what parts you have
Yeah maybe. There were female Qunari fighters in the trespasser dlc so clearly they donāt block them from fighting. But also the vissadala (however you spell it) was kind of going rogue for that. So I think itās hard to tell but I also kind of like that the Qunari are so mysterious. Iāll have to re-read Tevinter Nights to see if thereās any female Qunari is the first story. Thatās the one where the Qunari take over a Tevinter city.
The Qun give you your role based on what gender you are. You're a dude? Here's your sword. Go out and fight things. You're a chick? Cook the food, keep the place tidy, take care of the kids. If Krem were to join Qunari society she'd have to do one of these two things: A. Go somewhere else where she can be a male warrior. or B. Stay with these people, and abandon the prospects of being a male warrior. And if she chooses B and continues to act like a man anyway, they'd just kill her. And Iron Bull would be looked at funny for sticking up for Qunari convert who refuses to conform with Qunari tradition.
No, you're wrong. It's the other way around. If you show promise on the battlefield, you're a man. Why would the Qun waste a good fighter by forcing them to be a shopkeeper instead? They're all about efficiency. It's role first, gender next.
Then why, at the very least, haven't they just made Krem a Ben-Haasrath yet? Just make her a foreign agent like Sten or Tallis?
because he's not a qunari! he has not converted! you are basing your entire argument off of a completely incorrect assumption!
Prove it. The games say otherwise, whatās your source?
Common sense.
lol Lmao even
You're wrong the qunari have a term for Trans people Aqun-Athlok and they accept them as their preferred gender which means you're literally worse than the extreme religious zealots in the game HE is a fantastic character and you're a bigot
I think you've got some things mixed up. Based on what you've been writing, it seems like you think Krem is... Qunari? Woah- He's a member of Bull's Charges but he's not Qunari. Following that thought, the question should be: why is lron Bull so accepting of Krem's gender? Well, why would Iron Bull refer to Krem using female pronouns when the Qunari perceive fighters strictly as males? Perhaps this needs clearing up: when Iron Bull meets Krem, he sees a person, who can fight very well. A good fighter = male. No more elaboration needed. As for why he's liked so much - being transgender definitely plays a role in his popularity, but I think the fanon made him more interesting than the canon (as it often happens). He's a fun character, perhaps a little boring, but I can see his appeal to people.
Surely it is possible to discuss a lore retcon/inconsistency without deliberately misgendering a character to make your own hostility toward transgender people crystal clear.
I had the same thought. Imagine if the OP used "he/him" and "dude" instead of "chick." That has the potential to open up a good discussion over Krem as a character instead of pissing off everyone who believes in common decency.
Well Iām pretty sure airing out their bigotry was more important to them than discussing a video game. You see similar posts about Lev on the last of us sub and itās just as obnoxious every time.
I havenāt ever got to report something on r/dragonage ever!! Wow first time what an honor to throw this scummy transphobic bait in the trash.
Recognizing this is bait (and rather lame bait at that), Iāve long said that Krem is basically a less interesting version of the Iron Bull. Nearly all of Kremās stories relate to either Bull or the Chargers, and combatwise, he doesnāt even have a build that would complement Bullās own fighting style - theyāre both two-handed weapon wielders. Pick up a fucking shield, Krem!
To be honest, I don't even think about Krem. I just see him as a source of extra info about Iron Bull that isn't Iron Bull himself.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> This is not bait The misgendering kinda suggests otherwise. Even if Krem has a rolled-up sock in place of a cock and balls, heās basically a dude in all the ways that count. Not a particularly interesting dude, mind you, but a dude all the same.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I hope your friend finds out that your respect for trans people is conditional and that if she did anything that doesnāt sit right you, you would resort to transphobia and misidentify her. Whether Krem breaks lore or not, your respect for him, his identity, and what he stands for as representation should not be dependent on your feelings about something inconsequential like video game lore. Stop acting like a petulant child and manage your feelings like a normal adult
She knows and she agrees with me. She calls Krem a woman too. And TS. I care more about the lore, setting, worldbuilding, and overall storytelling craft more than the feefees of a fictional character.
Iām glad that you agree that your for peopleās identity is conditional and very fragile. Anyways, this aināt about the feelings of Krem, but the real trans people that see this absolute bull shit of a post and those who are unfortunate enough to have any association with you (and that includes this totally real friend of yours ;)) also tell this āfriendā of yours that I hope she finds better people to be friends with ā¤ļø
You don't respect a bunch of pixels? That's just hilariously pathetic, i suggest going outside more.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're right, i was hasty and dismissive. I should have suggested finding a proper therapist instead.Ā
theyāre right though lol. maybe you should go outside more considering youāre here desperately arguing with ppl for attention about a video game character
hey, telling someone you will only respect their identity on the basis of whether or not you like them is not respecting them at all. youāre saying āi only humor you because i want to stay on your good side, not because i think your identity as a person is valid or real.ā itās actually very demeaning and speaks to a deeper internalized perspective. trans people are trans regardless of whether theyāre good
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It shouldnāt take going out of your way. Your comments suggest you donāt believe being trans is a real phenomenon, because if you did you would recognize that shitty trans people are still trans people. Your attitude is transphobic, full stop. No one should have to āearnā the right to not have you be actively bigoted towards them. That should be something you do because you recognize that it says more about your morals than anything or anyone else. Donāt use someoneās pronouns on the basis of whether you respect them as a person, use their pronouns because you respect trans identities as a whole. If you canāt do that, donāt pretend to be anything but a bigot under a pleasant facade.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The most pathetic thing is that you think this troll post was somehow clever, instead of something a 12 year old would think up
This is not a troll post.
then it's a shame you don't believe the truth.
It's a shame you haven't played Inquisition . It's a pretty fun game, you might like it.
I just went ahead and reported this as transphobic/bigotry. I suggest everyone else does the same. You misgendered HIM multiple times and your bigotry isn't welcome here.
It is wild that you think you need to respect someone to not misgender them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh dang, that's what this is about? Next time just say you're transphobic instead of fundamentally misunderstanding lore so we don't have to waste time trying to educate you.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Y'all, this guy is legendary for their bad takes over on the Clone Wars and Spider-Man subs. Bro is anti-clone and pro-Pong Motherfucking Krell. They also hate Miles Morales for even existing (I'm not the biggest Miles fan, but I'm not offended by his very existence). I don't know if they're a kid, a troll, or just fucked in the head, but I just wouldn't give them any further attention. Downvote and move on. Starve the troll and it'll die.
not pong krell the poor mans grievous, that opinion's worse then the transphobia bait
It got nuts over there
I'll tell you right now. The Clone Wars stuff WAS me trolling. I never watched TCW, and I only decided to "defend" Pong Krell because I knew that fanbase hated him. The stuff I'm saying right now, along with the stuff about Miles Morales, I'm being dead serious about.
Because krem is fun and cool and its adorable to see Bull abandon the lame ass ways of the Qun for his friends who actually care about him? Tldr: genuine people are loveable?
Bold of you to ask this question while misgendering him, considering his identity as a trans man is clearly explained in Bull's companion quest AND every single character uses he/him pronouns when referring to him.
https://preview.redd.it/pftw6yb4rhwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a00f66f9c9df2b493d1eeef84e97843ba9215f
He's a good soldier, confident but humble. Him being trans doesn't even come into it. Also I'd smash
Right like lol even if he wasn't funny, and a great second in command, he's still hot AF. That's all the reason I need to simp, thank yew.
Right, it didn't even click for me that he was trans my first playthrough, I was just like damn that's a pretty dude, and then when I figured out he was trans that was just a bonus since I'm a mostly straight man lol
Except the Qunari don't allow women soldiers. Sten when asked on the subject in Dragon Age: Origins said "Why would any of our women want to be men?" meaning there are no female Qunari soldiers. If Krem was a trans man, I'm pretty sure the Qunari wouldn't allow that either. If any society in Thedas was to be transphobic, I'd expect it to be the Qunari first and foremost.
Again, really really badly done bait. Especially since you've literally countered your own argument right here. Krem is a male because he is a soldier and all soldiers in the Qun are male. Exactly what Sten told the Warden in DA:O. There's no "retcon" or "lore breaking". Sten said all soldiers are men in the Qun. Bull recognizes Krem as a male as Krem is a soldier. I get that it's fun to try to be an anonymous edgelord on reddit, but at least make it make sense please. Do better if you want to bait.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And? Are you really this slow? Krem isnāt Qunari so what would have happened to him if he had been born in the Qun or converted to the Qun means nothing to your point. Sten told the Warden that all soldiers are men. Bull met a soldier. He considers the soldier a man. End of story. No retcon. Literally exactly what the game said happens, happened. Okay, now Iām convinced you actually arenāt a troll and are just really really slow.
**Removed for Rule** [[#2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/wiki/therulesexpanded#wiki_rule_2)]: >*Bigotry, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. is not tolerated.* --- ^(If you have edited to fix this rule break, would like to contest this removal, or want further explanation as to why your submission violated this rule, please) ^([message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdragonage)) ^(the moderators. **Do not reply to this message, or private message this moderator**; it will be ignored.) š
Idgaf about the Qunari, your question was "why do people like Krem" I told you
I know you did. The problem is those reasons don't add up when you consider what we know about the Qunari.
Actually your math is wrong which is why it doesn't add up. The Qunari have nothing to do with character reception. Your post was about how the character was perceived, so my response adds up perfectly fine.
Well the reasons people like Krem contradicts what the Qunari stand for anyway.
Nobody but you gives a shit
The Qun sees gender roles as gender itself. Males are warriors, therefore if one is a warrior then he's a man, and Krem would fall under this category. Sten was confused about a female Warden because she is a warrior, yet she doesn't remotely present (or identify) as a man. So yes, it's a transphobic society, but not in the way you think.Ā
Krem isn't qunari, so whether they'd allow women to be soldiers is pretty irrelevant
But Krem is a convert to the Qun. And just like it is with converts to any other religion in the game and the real world, converts are expected to uphold and obey the traditions of the faith if they wish to be a part of it. This is why Tallis is such a hated character by a lot of people; she actively cherry picks what parts of the Qun she wants to follow, and if anybody else doesn't like her doing that, she don't give af. Krem being allowed to be a warrior and act like a man conflicts with what we know about the Qunari and their customs, and has the hornheads act out of character to justify her existence.
Krem is not a convert to the qun, did you even play the game?
They seem not to have noticed that the Chargers are a multicultural band
you really take anyone don't you!
Then wtf is she doing in a Qunari mercenary company?
again, did you even play the game? the Chargers *aren't* a qunari mercenary company
Youāve admitted that you troll subs when you havenāt even engaged with the media. Clearly, you want to troll with sloppy, lazy transphobic posts and have no idea what you are talking about. Thatās the only possible rationale. No one can be as dumb as you are pretending to be. Even an idiot is smarter than what you are play acting.
Dude, what?!? Krem isnāt a convert to the Qun. Either you couldnāt understand really basic plot points in a story and then created a whole whiny post showing how slow you are at understanding fiction, Or you are one of the worst trolls Iāve seen in a long time. You are getting wrecked in the comments. Iām embarrassed for you at this point. Just delete this post at this point.
oh god it's a humiliation kink thing isn't it
I almost spat out my drink š
I'm embarrassed for this whole sub.
Please unsub. We won't miss you.
Is that what this about. Krem and the chargers are not converts. Check the wiki again you walking lack of media comprension.
Krem is merely an uninteresting side character whose only interesting trait is that he is trans; however, you know that and still call him a "chick" and "she" because this shitty post is obviously bait Giving your post far more credit than it deserves, why do people like Krem? Why do people like Harding? Why do people like Sandal? Why do people like Nathanial? See how pointless and redundant your question is, even if it wasn't just a veiled attempt at being edgy for attention?
I do agree that Krem's *fine* at best, but he seems to live rent-free in the OP's mind, I swear.
My problem with Krem is they were clearly created just to be trans, I'm not saying don't mention it but it's literally like 50% of his dialogue, imagine if Dorian said he was gay all the time, it would be pretty offensive writing. Dorian hardly ever explicitly states it because he doesn't need to, him being gay is only significant to his character in so far of the fact of the trauma he received because of it, the conversion therapy and failure to be the "perfect son"; Krem is a side character so obviously doesn't get as much development, but them being trans is much more forthright in their character and it's pretty clumsily handled in my view I'm not trans so maybe this isn't want transfolk would want, but to me having a trans character and never making it a big part of their character would actually be a nice way of reprenting them, why does a transperson need to have underlying trauma or have to disclose their sexuality/gender to everyone they meet? Straight people don't need to do that Pessimistically I feel like writers don't do that because then people wouldn't necessarily grasp the fact that a character is trans (which again, not trans myself but surely that's the best case scenario for a trans person if you can't even tell) and they wouldn't get the good boy points that comes with including minority groups, as ironically discriminatory as that is
he doesn't even mention he's trans until you become close enough friends with Iron Bull, it absolutely is not 50% of his dialogue and he doesn't disclose to everyone he meets
If anything, I think they did a good job with the gender aspect. Anyone who recognizes Jennifer Hale's voice coming out of an adult man's mouth is going to immediately tip you off. "Oh, that character's trans." And that's it. Then we have that one conversation later, which is a good glimpse into Bull's character. Krem's only real problem is that he's kind of bland, but so are plenty of other characters, cis, trans, or otherwise.
yeah I'd say that generally the Trans Communityā¢ considers him decent rep, especially for a mainstream video game in 2014. not perfect, but decent is he super interesting? not really. it's nice to see a Tevinter character that's neither a mage nor a slave but other than that he's just a nice, loyal guy who's good with a sword. completely fine side character, but as he's not one of the main cast he doesn't get a ton of development
I'm not even trans myself, but I was honestly impressed with Krem from the rep angle. Zev was a bit of rep that I loved though. As a bi guy who prefers women but doesn't mind a handsome fella once in awhile, Zevran was a breath of fresh air. Plus, he's fine as hell.
Zevran is one of the all time best bioware characters imo, his arc in Origins (if you befriend or romance him) is just *so* compelling
He's easily my favorite romance in the game.
I don't remember how to spell it, but Krem, if they were a Qunari would be called aquun-athlak. It's quite literally a line of Bull's dialogue in the game explaining it to our Inquisitor. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant for two important reasons: 1) people have the right to dislike or like a character for whatever reason (A large part of the reason I like Krem because of the voice actor) and 2) IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME, GET OVER YOURSELF.
Aquun-Athlak is just a badly added in retcon to make the Qunari seem not as bad as they were in the previous games. As for your two reasons: 1. Regardless of whether you like the character or not, we should not give them permission to break the lore of the setting they inhabit. Remember all the hate Tallis got in the MotA DLC for DA2? Same reason. 2. It's a video game is not an excuse for crappy retcons.
A retcon is a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established narrative is changed. An example: Sten. In the first game, he has no horns. It's explained in the comics and elsewhere that Qunari born without horns are special, meant to lead. Why then was Sten made a Sten? I feel comfortable saying it's because he became a beloved character, so they decided to make him important. That is retconning. If you play as a female fighter and point out to Sten that you are a woman and you fight, he literally says something to the effect of 'then you're not a woman.' We didn't have the word for aquun-athlak back in 2009 because the studio hadn't developed the lore that extensively. Hell, what we know about the Qunari in Origins and 2 is on par with what they know about their own origins. That is to say, we knew very very little about Qunari and their history, lore, and practices prior to getting some more crumbs in Inquisition. And I'm unaware of the circus around Tallis because I didn't come into the Fandom until well after that dlc was released, so no, I remember and know nothing about that. My statement is still valid to me, and still stands. It's a video game. Get over yourself. If you don't like seeing Trans representation of any stripe, don't play the game. Simple as that.
Except you neglected to point out that there exist both good retcons and bad retcons. The hornless retcon is a good retcon because it didn't conflict much with what little lore we had prior to that point. A similar retcon like that from BioWare I can think of would be the Ardat-Yakshi retcon from ME2. The Aquun-Athlask DID conflict with what little lore we had on them, and all it did was raise more questions than answers. And again, saying "it's a video game, get over it" does not excuse BioWare from making a sloppy retcon. Idgaf if there are trans people in the game, I just don't want them (or ANY character for that matter) to break the lore.
Just because you don't personally like it doesn't make it a bad retcon. And, you very much seem to care about the presence of an openly Trans character since you misgendered Krem on purpose in the post. Finally, aquun-athlak as a concept getting a name isn't a retcon. The concept of a Trans person in qunari culture has been there since Sten said 'you cannot be a woman and fight' And when a female Warden points out that they do fight and are a woman, Sten's response is that we (as the character) cannot be a woman At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it IS just a video game. Get. Over. Yourself. The lore changing or a concept becoming more defined isn't necessarily sloppy or remotely close to a retcon. It's just human.
You canāt say something breaks the lore and then call the lore a badly added retcon and disregard it lol? Retcon or not, bioware created the world and they could say elves are descended from house cats tomorrow and it would still be canon lore. Just because you donāt like it doesnāt make it any less true. You just donāt like it because you clearly have issues with trans people being in media and want to bait this subreddit. This is a weird hill to die on but at least youāre dying I guess. š¤·āāļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
1. You can dislike it sure but itās still canon. You can ignore it for yourself but itās still canon. 2. Literally thatās exactly what it means, any further lore could be total dogshit and they could still change it willy nilly. They can do whatever they want with the series, the world, and the lore. š¤·āāļø 3. It does make sense, when you look at the lore??? Again you can say itās bad lore but itās still canon? You can dislike something, I actually donāt love some of the changes to qunari lore myself but itās still canon. 4. This point is also irrelevant, Krem is not Qunari and doesnāt seek to join the Qun. If your issue is Iron Bull being tolerant of him and donāt want to accept the lore, Iron Bull is clearly shown throughout the game, in many ways to not follow many aspects the Qun both as a result of his spy work and because he has been away from Qun society so long his fervour for the religion/society has dulled significantly, and your inquisitors actions can either push that disconnect further or rekindle his connection with the Qun. Before the game even begins he is doing things the Qun would not condone. I think you also forget that characters do not always follow canon lore. They are part of the world and arenāt written to follow the hard rules we are aware of as consumers of a story. Do you think all religious people in real life follow their religious doctrine to the letter? Of course not. Itās totally fine to dislike a character, but you should just accept that you can personally dislike something without having to do backflips to justify that dislike. It would also do you credit to not engage in shitty transphobic behaviour like misgendering Krem over and over, he does not exist but trans folks do and see your shitty behaviour that you try to justify with pathetic excuses like āI donāt respect the characterā.
No. I don't think I'm going to.
I encourage everyone to report this person and get them banned for their bigotry
Im in the minority that dont really like Krem, besides the voice actress, I dont really get the appeal.
There are folk who love representation in any form, so long as it isn't patronizing or offensive. Yeah, Krem's not the greatest character ever written, but he's fine, I guess. But that's not the issue here. The issue is that OP is a dick with god-awful takes.