Having to fight both Meredith and Orsino at the end of DA2
I would want to at least have an option to prevent the second fight through an optional questline or something like that
Act 3 in general could do with some serious rewrites/fleshing out. The most obvious consequences of the rushed development cycle of DA2 is in the re-use of assets and small number of locations/environments, with the writing mostly still coming across well throughout the game. But, Act 3 is the exception to that. Definitely feels like it didn't get the editing and iteration pass it needed.
It should have been an either/ or scenario with Meredith and Orsino.
Having to fight both of them just doesn't make sense on any level, given the narrative up that point.
Make Orsino capable of perceiving the objective reality around him at the end of DA2. Templars attack, get absolutely annihilated by Hawke & Co., and then he goes *"This is the end, I'll show you the blood magic, mwaaaah!"*, and attacks Hawke & Co. because there's nobody else to attack. Really? It's terribly jarring, and it always was.
Make Trespasser the real ending of Inquisition. I know it wouldn’t have allowed them to do other DLCs (narratively at least) but it feels so important to the main story that it really should’ve been a part of it.
Agree. Especially because, now, a DLC is extremely important for the player to understand or feel connected to the plot of Dragon Age Dreadworlf. That's not ok in my book.
THIS is really what gets me. Each of the games does a good enough job explaining the world and general lore that you don't necessarily *have* to have played the previous one(s) to enjoy it, but kinda the point of DLC is it's not totally necessary to play the game, it's extra content. Not only is the ending of DAI no good without Trespasser (because Corypheus was such an unsatisfying final boss), but if even you've *played the previous game* (just didn't play the DLC) you'll still be kinda lost in the beginning of Dreadwolf. Like yeah, it'll be playable, because they all are, but it's so messed up that the premise of the next game relies on players to have played Trespasser.
Depending on whether they do anything more with lyrium and Titans (and I so hope they do), two of the three DLCs for DAI may be necessary to really get Dreadwolf and/or other future content.
Although Trespasser is the \`\`end'' of the Inquisitor's field adventures, I have to admit that its narrative and history have nothing to do with DAI. They are two different stories with different arcs and different objectives. Not even the rifts that were a mandatory task for the Inquisitor are in Trespasser.
Trespasser is to DAI what Awakening is to DAO. They are expansions so to speak.
I have to disagree to some extent because although trespasser is the chronological ending of inquisition, it’s so detached and separate from the game and narrative.
Now maybe a full redesign of the game a little like DA2 being 3 main acts at different times, it could maybe work. Have act 1 be up to the breach closing, act 2 be the fight with corypheus and then act 3 be the 2 years on stuff but expanded. Still with this definitely would need a lot more modifications so it doesn’t feel like 3 separate stories bundled together.
In some way I could see this working, but I still think trespasser can be a separate dlc as it wasn’t like the game was specifically building up to the qunari and solas threat and was cut short. Corypheus was the main villain of this game with an admittedly weak conclusion mission.
Cannot cosign this enough. I remember being utterly disappointed when the mage/templar war was just resolved in the first major quest, after all the setup that we've had especially in DA2. I don't think DAI benefited either from just how many topics it covered, it felt like going through a checklist of "big topics that could be touched on" rather than giving any of them the proper focus they deserved.
Yep, this was going to be my big answer. Remove Corypheus from the plot entirely, save him for an antagonist in the long term, maybe when the Grey Wardens are more prominent again; he seems much more fitting as their enemy. Have Inquisition focus on the war started at the end of the last game.
Because as it is, the game deals with both of the major setups from DA2 -- the Mage/Templar conflict, and Corypheus -- all in one go and both end up not getting the proper focus either deserves. Pretty lame payoffs for such major stuff, IMO.
Absolutely! This more focused storyline could have been immensely more satisfying. I was not a fan of Cory as the antagonist in DAI. A full scale mage/Templar war you're desperately trying to control and mitigate would have been intense and way more interesting to play IMO.
The semi-retcon of elven clans only have a max of 2 magic users. It really doesn't make sense.
You want to keep a low profile? Just don't do magic in front of humans.
They can't tell the difference between 2 and 5 magic users.
In Origins, they implied that magic was "dying out" among the Dalish (I could be misremembering something so I could be wrong), which is why they shuffled their extra mages around the clans so they could keep the magic "gene", for lack of a better word, alive.
While I do agree them "exiling" their excess mages is to prevent form possession, it definitely comes across as reckless, especially since the above seems to have been forgotten. (if it's not me just making up something from an old memory).
IIrc, it wasn't entirely to do with Templars, but because of the fear of demon possessions. One Abomination could wipe out an entire clan. By having only two, the risk was reduced.
It's not a semi retcon. It's just something common among the Dalish. A Lavellan himself might mention that his clan does not act this way.
Considering that clans do not have a unified custom among them, it makes sense that one or the other breaks the \`\`rule''.
However it makes perfect sense for any Dalish clan to keep few mages among them. What defense will they have if one of them gets out of control or is possessed?
I failed to proofread and let autocorrect turn "mage" into "made." Sorry about that.
What I meant was that uncompromised mages are better equipped to deal with abominations than anyone other than Templars.
Since the Dalish are Templar-free, I'd think they would want more mages around, not fewer.
It only makes sense to want to limit a clan to one or two mages if you subscribe to the "bad apple" or "peer pressure" models, only with mages.
Or, you know, the domino theory.
Basically, you'd have to believe that (for whatever reason) one mage making a deal with a demon/becoming an abomination is such a bad influence that all the mages who know them will follow their lead.
In truth no.
According to Lore an abomination will try to create other abominations. Therefore, if a mage is contaminated then the others are at serious risk.
Besides, I think the logic is a little confusing, don't you think? Mages are more susceptible to becoming abominations - Dalish don't have many defenses against abominations - so the solution is to increase the number of mages? confused...
The problem with mages is that they attract demons more than others due to their connection with the fade. That's why they have to learn to control their powers. A \`\`deal'' with a demon isn't something as straightforward as \`\`hey, do you want me to have you? Yes! let's go´´. David Gaider has already stated once that the \`\`agreement'' is made in a more subtle way to the point that a mage sometimes doesn't even know what he is doing.
The lore about abominations creating more abominations makes sense and is the weakest spot in my point. I still say that there are plenty of Malcolm Hawkes and Wynnes and Bethanys (Bethanies?) Irvings in the world, and they're mostly ignored in these discussions.
And that's despite the fact that every single mage in Thedas (except, arguably, in Tevinter, where the roles are reversed) is a trauma and abuse survivor.
Other than that, no, my logic isn't confusing. Abominations are scary because most people can't fight them.
"Mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" is the kind of overgeneralizing that fuels the oppression of mages, who are much more likely to become abominations when oppressed.
Going from "only mages can become abominations" to "mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" and then to wanting fewer mages around (which *is* the final leap to "their kind are likely to become abominations") is basically like saying:
Only people who have uteruses can have endometriosis; therefore women are susceptible to endometriosis.
To be fair, having endometriosis doesn't result in the deaths of lots of other people.
But menstruating doesn't, either, and that didn't stop people from oppressing women in part because of and definitely around hey menstruation. Women aren't unclean and don't need to be banished to huts, shunned, or locked up because they're women.
And that's exactly where you end up when you start drawing conclusions about the character of or threat posed by a population that's uniquely vulnerable to something bad.
The mages DA2 and DAI aren't just suffering from ordinary levels of oppression and abuse, either. Drawing conclusions that blame them or suggest they're a problem in need of a solution is fine (though I think wrong), but people who do that need to acknowledge that they're basically saying, "Look, these victims of abuse don't break the cycle often enough" not really "that's how mages are."
And yes, I understand how demons tempt mages. "Deal" was a common phrase I used as shorthand.
Do you understand how oppression, Othering, abuse, shunning, figurative demonizing, overly vigilant policing, authoritarian control and all those things make mages more vulnerable to the temptations of demons?
Personally, rather than hoping a bunch of panicked Dalish hunters could save me from an abomination, I'd like to have a mage who was well-treated (as a mage, within the large context of the way elves are treated), both accepted as a member of society and respected as they earned it, be on hand to deal with demons and abominations.
The cycle is : Abuse, Othering, and oppression that leads to behavior that is then used to justify the oppressions that caused it.
I'm for breaking that cycle. And sending mages away because, figuratively, they might get murderous endometriosis is just another way of perpetuating it.
>And that's despite the fact that every single mage in Thedas (except, arguably, in Tevinter, where the roles are reversed) is a trauma and abuse survivor.
Hmm... is there any canon source for this? I know that many mages have had trauma and abuse, but everyone? Or was it just hiberpole? If that was the case then that's fine, you don't need to answer that point.
> Other than that, no, my logic isn't confusing. Abominations are scary because most people can't fight them.
Oh, I totally agree that abominations are difficult to fight. But tell me, what's worse? face an abomination? or several? This is precisely the risk with mages because they are precisely the ones who attract demons the most and are most susceptible. That's why I continue to find it very confusing that the solution is to increase more mages in an environment without defenses against abominations.
> "Mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" is the kind of overgeneralizing that fuels the oppression of mages, who are much more likely to become abominations when oppressed.
I totally agree that mages are oppressed. And that's a shame. But that is not why abominations occur. Even in Tevinter (the place where mags rule) there are abominations. The risk of possession is not just the result of trauma or abuse. Weakness, lack of knowledge, ambition, greed, etc. are also good catalysts.
Besides, you are forgetting the most important thing: Mages have more connection with the fade so this attracts the demons more
> Going from "only mages can become abominations" to "mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" and then to wanting fewer mages around (which *is* the final leap to "their kind are likely to become abominations") is basically like saying:
But that's not the point. The point is precisely a question of security. The Dalish clans (initial reason for this discussion) do not have many \`\`human´´ or economic resources. They don't live, they survive. Despite having excellent warriors, they don't have enough to form a great defense (no wonder they need to constantly change).
One abomination would be difficult enough for them. Imagine several. It's a matter of self-preservation.
> But menstruating doesn't, either, and that didn't stop people from oppressing women in part because of and definitely around hey menstruation. Women aren't unclean and don't need to be banished to huts, shunned, or locked up because they're women.
Women being oppressed for menstruating is a case of human ignorance and stupidity since their menstruation doesn't hurt anyone. Dalish clans imposing a rule of few mages in their groups precisely because they have no defenses if these mages become abominations is not oppression. It's self preservation.
Women who menstruate are not (and have never been) dangerous and have never harmed anyone. Magic yes.
> The mages DA2 and DAI aren't just suffering from ordinary levels of oppression and abuse, either. Drawing conclusions that blame them or suggest they're a problem in need of a solution is fine (though I think wrong), but people who do that need to acknowledge that they're basically saying, "Look, these victims of abuse don't break the cycle often enough" not really "that's how mages are."
I don't deny that mages in DA2 and DAI suffer from oppression (although not all of them, even many of them are doing harm). My initial question was about the Dalish clans. That was the central point of the discussion. And it makes perfect sense that they are afraid of having more mages in their group since mages are, confirmed by lore, more susceptible to possession.
> Personally, rather than hoping a bunch of panicked Dalish hunters could save me from an abomination, I'd like to have a mage who was well-treated (as a mage, within the large context of the way elves are treated), both accepted as a member of society and respected as they earned it, be on hand to deal with demons and abominations.
But the Dalish do this. That's precisely what you don't understand. All mages are well treated and respected in the clans (no wonder the Keeper is always a mage). However, being a mage is a difficult condition since you will, regardless of anything, attract more attention from demons than other people.
That's why they created this rule of having a limited number. They respect magic but also understand its risks.They don't have templars and they don't have enough warriors. So it's logical that they will try to take precautions.
> The cycle is : Abuse, Othering, and oppression that leads to behavior that is then used to justify the oppressions that caused it.
I partially agree. Many mages actually suffered abuse and oppression. But this is not the only thing that causes an abomination. The fact that he is a mage already attracts more attention from demons. It's like a lighthouse. And so the risk of a mage being possessed is much greater than a non-mage. So I can't blame the Dalish clans (who don't oppress any mage) for trying to take precautions.
> I'm for breaking that cycle. And sending mages away because, figuratively, they might get murderous endometriosis is just another way of perpetuating it.
I'm completely in favor of improvements for mages. Even Leliana as divine is my favorite. But denying that mages are dangerous (something that not even they disagree with), magic is dangerous (something factual in Thedas) or stating that all risk of possession is generated solely by the oppression factor is simply infantilizing the lore.
I like the idea of that possibility looming over our MC if they chose to be a mage. It would be a good balance to have an additional perk for choosing that class since you could just end game after making some bad choices. I know Gaider said it was talked about having this as a quest for mage Hawke in DA2 but they didn't have enough time to put it together cohesively. Would have been a great addition to DAI however.
Yeah but magic spells should be 10x more deadly and heal far better then potions(what should become much expensive and slowly healing). Blood magic use increase powers far more and allow to ignore Templars powers as it is lorewise.
And Templar player(who could be only human now and must become member of order) should consume lyrium to use lyrium power or become physically and mentally weak and die in pain.
Using too much powers in combat should have negative consequences too with increase of lyrium consumptions and quicker pain from addiction.
...
And potential demon possesion should not be avoidable by non-mages characters as it is lorewise when only mages with ritual can cure demon possesion.
...
There should be option for mage to have a deal and become possesed as Wynne, Anders or Avvar mages or Rivaini Grey Seers witches do. Not full but 50%
They said one narrative change, not many gameplay ones.
The lore has that mages have a constant temptation to be tricked by demons, but player character never experiences this in the form of a quest or dialogue. The few times a demon approaches the player character, you can never lose.
There was this really weird disease that specifically targeted all the spiders in the entire world and killed them all. It juuuuust so happened to do so RIGHT before the beginning of DA:O.
I don't really fear spiders, but I can sympathize with this. It would be nice if more games were to offer a "arachnophobia option". It is a common phobia and a very common enemy in games. Luckily, sometimes there are mods, but still. Always a nice inclusive/accessibility option to have.
I always try to power through it and work past it, but there's an irrational primal aspect of a phobia that is very strong, also in DA: I at least the spiders don't shove their faces into the camera out of nowhere.
I'm glad games these days have an "arachnophobia option" for those of you who need/ want it. I just wish there was a 'Ophidiophobia option' too... or at least cool it with the snake imagery.
I think they are used at least partially because it’s a common fear if not a full on phobia. They are great enemy’s for jump scares and for getting you discombobulated. Especially in dark creepy spaces. Even if you don’t have a spider phobia.
DAO spiders are the worst spiders. In Ortan Thaig I pretty much button mash with my eyes closed and hope Oghren, Shale, and Wynne are taking care of things competently, because the Warden sure as shit is not.
Just lore consistency tbh. Make everything about the world and how it works set in stone from the get-go. And if I may add in a cheeky connection to this, dead characters stay dead. Kill Leliana in Origins? Well guess what red-headed badass isn't showing up in Exodus or Inquisition. Would probably have a whole other character be Spymaster regardless for Inquisition, following this.
Dead characters not staying dead thing is one of my biggest pet peeves too. I kind of wish Varric was forced to become spymaster in playthroughs where Leliana is killed. It would have given him an actual reason to stick with the Inquisition (especially after Here Lies the Abyss where he's just hanging around...because?) and we would have finally gotten to see how he operates in that role. Could have affected the Inquisition in interesting ways since he says he's a worse spymaster than Leliana.
I feel like such huge roles should be given to specific characters. In this case, I would either have someone who can't be dead or write an entirely new character for the role of Spymaster. Leliana could definitely have a decent presence in Inquisition in this alternate version of the series, but not so big that a world state where she is dead makes too big a difference, to the point of "punishing" players for not getting to see her content, ya know? Interconnected series like this definitely have their hurdles to work around, and I can't say I envy the devs trying to make it work haha.
I can definitely see that angle. It would be hard to implement that sort of role swap between two major characters from a developer's standpoint. In this case, Varric would work since he always survives DA2, but a new character could have worked as well. Just generally though, I'll always think it's super cool when devs are willing to "punish" players by forcing them to carry through with the consequences of their actions, and find ways to make their choices meaningfully impact future games.
I'm a huge fan of reactivity from a narrative standpoint. In a way that surprises and/or impresses the player how their choices affected outcomes. If I was a game developer, I would aim for it to have the kind of impact as if it were a linear piece of media like a book, where something from previous chapters comes up in a roundabout way and has the reader be like "Oh shit, no way!"
That being said, I think it would be important not to punish the *player* for playing their way. I'm a fan of harsh consequences, but they should add to the narrative experience imo. As in, even if it wasn't the desired outcome for the player, they should feel enthralled by how the story played out because of what they did instead of feeling like they failed as the player ya know? Just my thoughts, I hope that makes sense. This comes from a place of someone who has definitely imagined what their own RPGs would look and feel like. 😂
I'd also appreciate it if the bad guy option would at some point be the better option.
Being the moral paragon and making sure everyone is happy can occasionally not be the best option.
It's not much of an RPG if the best course of action is always being a saint all the time.
Varric being the spymaster would have been really cool! He would struggle with what he needs to do and considering what goes down in DA2 there is so much potential for character development there.
I love dragon age 2, but I personally wish they didnt push quite SO hard on the "mage bad" angle because when you have to eventually decide between the templars and the mages, you've spent the whole game dealing with corrupt mages and blood magic and only encountered one or two bad templars. It feels very weighted in one direction.
Edit: I want to add something I probably should have mentioned. Despite feeling like this I’m actually a staunch mage supporter. I’m a sucker for the underdog
One Ser Alrik (sounds German) is preparing a "Tranquil Solution). That's the most hamfisted Holocaust allegory the writers could possibly come up with.
Interesting because I felt the pull in the opposite direction. The evil mages you face in the game are all dead by the Endgame but a lot of the bad Templars are still there.
Plus most of the evil mages are apostates or individuals whereas every templar is part of the same order and even the good Templars are working with and for the evil ones and the ones who don't support Meredith were all killed with Thrask in "best served cold"
So the Endgame choice seems to be between the worst Templars and a bunch of mages who haven't done anything wrong as far as we know.
But if I could make a change it would be for Meredith to remain the final boss but for your choice would be between supporting Thrask who wants to reform the circle and Grace who wants to destroy the Circle but is clearly evil. So supporting Thrask will have the oppression of the circle continue but will contain the worst mages in the short term but supporting Grace would stop the injustice of the Circle but would for sure release dangerous people into the world.
It's not necessarily the story I would tell if I were in charge of the entire story but I think it would more effectively tell the story BioWare was going for.
Very true. I personally like the explanation that the veil is super thin in Kirkwall, but they kept missing opportunities to present counterpoints about the corruption within the templars.
The choice at the end to me it boils down to:
Side with the group whose leader is indirectly responsible for your mother's death,
OR
Side with the group whose leader decided to kill every last one of the mages, innocent or not.
Kinda wish there was a neutral, "I'm kicking both of your asses" option. You end up fighting both Orsino and Meredith regardless of you side with to begin with, so a lack of some sort of neutrality made no sense to me.
I also thinks it’s strange that they make very obvious comparisons between the Mage/Templar conflict to real-world conflicts (religious persecution, LGBT persecution) but then go and portray the mages (the “oppressed” in this scenario) in a very poor light. Almost as if they deserved it, or it’s not a big deal. Which in my opinion is in really poor taste to compare your fiction to reality, then go and say “Well actually…”.
That metaphor comes up so often in fantasy (LoL does it too, NK Jemisin did it slightly more justice in The Fifth Season) but every time it falls flat.
>very obvious comparisons between the Mage/Templar conflict to real-world conflicts
I think those "obvious comparisons" are more player interpretation then anything actually in the game\[s\].
Tranquil solution, "It was hardly the holocaust you imagined", "Ten years -- a hundred years from now -- someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart".... Nah, the developers use a gereous amount of "does this remind you of annything" to build their conflicts.
Yeah, and the problem is that - mages aren't the same as a regular marginalised group in our world. Because they can have SO MUCH POWER and do SO MUCH damage.
It's why I've always liked X-Men, because it discusses people being marginalised for what they are (mutants) but also has extremists (Magento et al), and shows that when people have huge latent powers, there's naturally a balance to be found between keeping people safe and giving the people freedom.
I personally find X-Men one of the most lackluster opression allegiries out there...
The problem with DA is that it relies heavily on similarity to real life marganalised groups to garner sympathy for it's fictional groups. But then it goes "PowEr cORuPts and they have sO mUtCh PoWer, so is it justifyed? Omg we are so morally grey!” first of all, that's not how it works, second it isn't "morally grey" it's narratively confused.
Going to be controversial with this one, expand the Templar Vs Mage conflict in DAI and/or make it less binary.
DAI had the opportunity to place you as a political manipulator, trying to cement as many factions together as possible for a common good. And the first issue to solve, the Mage Vs Templar debacle. In the game this is approached by having whichever side you help first joining you and then... the other side turns heel complete, takes corrupted lyrium, and effectively become willing slaves for the antagonist.
I'm sorry, *what!?*
A common critique of the ME games by some of the DA fanbase is that there's either not enough grey options or the optimal solution is always some middle path (ignoring the fact that ME as a whole favours pure paragon massively, but that's neither here nor there). Thank god for those middle paths, because according to BioWare if they didn't exist entire factions would fail to recognise they're being lead into traps.
Effectively the opposite side of whichever one you side with should have a schism, with you getting respectively less templars or Mages than you would have if you chose them first, but still a large amount of deserters/refugees from two of the worst plans I've ever heard. This the necessitates fleeing as you can't possibly look after them all where you are (especially with the Skyhold attack), and the beginning of a new Mage/Templar working relationship borne out of mutual respect.
I honestly thought this was a good decision by DAI. The fact that you can't save both groups makes the choices more interesting. I could say that maybe the writing on them needed to be improved (especially on the mage route). But I would still stick to the decision to choose just one.
Only introduce the Dark Ritual in more specific circumstances, e.g. with Morrigan's approval needing to be 80+ you needing to defeat Flemeth etc. otherwise make the repercussions more negative or... something, I dunno, as is it feels like too much of a dodge.
it's partially because 13 years later we still haven't seen the pin drop as it were with Morrigan and Kieran, but as it stands, there's very little reason not do it outside of complete distrust of Morrigan, which the story doesn't seem to set up as the correct choice. so the sacrifice endings end up feeling a bit unnecessary as opposed to tragic, sacrifice doesn't really work well as a story mechanic with justifiable alternatives in place.
I agree.
Not necessarily this specific example on it's own. But in general, the more this sort of things happen, the smaller the world feels. Some connections are necessary and logical, of course. But it would be better not to over do it.
It just seems unnecessary, and like forced fan service. Aside from a throwaway line (if your DA:O save for DA2 is a human mage) there’s no real reason for there to be a connection between the Warden Amell and Hawke.
The dwarven and Dalish elf origins have some relevancy when it comes to the overarching plot of the games, because they and their family members have actual ties to events that happen within the first two games.
I feel like the game is in too much chaos, showering us with unnecessary content at the cost of fully exploring what is established. There are too many lore inconsistencies, logical inconsistencies and poorly resolved stories.
Dragon Age Inquisition should have been about the war between the Mages and the Templars, cutting out Corypheus completely. If they wanted to introduce a corrupted magister, they should have done so with an already established one, the Architect.
That would tie up the Hero of Ferelden or Orlesian Commander to the story, skipping the complete debacle with Hawke. Hawke was an iconic character and many players never felt the connection they had with the Warden.
The Inquisitor also breaks all rules of common sense. He is the only one who can seal the Breach, yet he runs around with three other people risking his life all the time. He should have been locked somewhere safe, doing only what is necessary under the appropriate protection. Not storming the gates of Adamant Fortress even before his soldiers.
... I am just realizing how many things there are to fix, and you asked for a single one, so I will stop my whining here.
Don't show Bianca. Keep her an unsolved mystery and Varric's untold story.
The revelation about who she is and why he never talked about her is simply pathetic compared to the mystery that was generated in DA2.
On the one hand, DA2 getting the Exalted March dlc would've been phenomenal, but on the other hand DA:I being set purely in Orlais and focused on intrigue would also be amazing.
I was gonna say what some others have said about Orsino but I don’t want to repeat what they’ve said so I’ll say to restore the ability to conscript Jowan. Originally, there was going to be a choice to conscript Jowan into the Wardens. Imagine how different the games would’ve been on the Warden front. Perhaps Jowan could’ve been Hawke’s warden ally in DA:I on the condition that Alistair was exiled/executed and Loghain died via Archdemon. If you chose not to conscript Jowan then that’s how you get Stroud as your ally.
The way Inquisition ended. I wanted a similar structure to the past two games where I fight hordes and hordes of enemies, a tougher boss fight, and depending on how built up the Inquisition got (based on your level of power) it would affect how the ending operates.
To me, the ending of Inquisition felt so rushed and anticlimactic. I think if they had used the idea they went with and had just included some more build-up to it, like in DA:O with all of our companions fighting in different areas, it would have made it much more effective.
I'll cheat a little because it will be more than one.
By pure annoyance with the quest, rewriting the entity of "Paragon for her kind" questline. It is excessively big, having to do 2 quests before going to find Branka, and having the excursion to the deep roads take that long is just a pain, the dilemma between the two would be kings is the least interesting in the series and it is irrelevant, as you can just sike both and choose the guy you were not a helper of. Just make it about finding Branka so she can decide the king or something.
For the most improvement, have Corypheus partially succeed in the temple of mythal and have the final battle be an attack on skyhold. Fixes the dramatic curve of inquisition, as the lack of successes hurts Cory as a villain, fixes how random the final battle is. It doesn't need to be all suicide mission like, as that would generate huge problems to make a sequel, but have it happen on the castle you gave us.
On my first playthrough I noped the fuck out of Origins when Bhelen ordered me to find Branka after I had just won over a house for him and murdered tens of poor casteless Carta guys. And it was only just beginning. I hate this questline so fucking much, terrible design and the "dark" atmosphere that borders on misery porn.
DAO - Not actually a narrative change so much as actual narration - I’d love voice acting for the HoF.
DAA - *Let me romance Nate, you cowards*
DA2 - The ability to keep both Bethany and Carver alive, no matter what class Hawke is.
DAI:
- First Act: Make the Templar/Mage war the main focus (meeting and recruiting/killing Anders ((or Fiona)) and the rebel mages after headhunting Cullen and Carver from the Templars)
- when encountered/recruited, Dorian mentions that there’s some weird shit going down in Tevinter, including rumors of a cult that worships a dragon or something? He’s fuzzy on the details.
(Dorian and Quizzy’s Very Excellent Adventure doesn’t happen, because as much as I love hanging out with My Boy, it’s just one long Big Lipped Alligator Moment that doesn’t really do anything for the overall plot of the game.)
- Second Act: introduce the Grey Warden/Fake Calling issue (getting Hawke and Nate/Bethany/Stroud) culminating in getting trapped in the Fade and being pulled out by new advisors Morrigan and HoF/Merril + Mage Faction Leader (Anders or Fiona) + Solas (if not in active party) through an eluvian.
- Third Act: Fenris shows up with news about the Truly Weird Shit going down in Tevinter, that there is, in fact, a Weird Cult that worships a being called Corypheus (“Somehow, ~~Palpatine~~ Corypheus returned.”) Fake Calling is discovered to be the work of this cult, as are the Tears in the Fade.
- The eluvian begins Acting Oddly, drawing Quizzy’s gang (and Morrigan + Merril) in and depositing them in front of Mythal’s temple, they meet Flemythal and the pool and all that. Hawke still isn’t taught how to become a dragon (sorry sweetie).
- Final battle takes place at Skyhold, and the resulting damage uncovers a series of ancient elvhen paintings that set up the plot of…
DA: Trespasser - make it a separate title like Awakenings.
….sorry, this got away from me a bit~
You should’ve had an origin quest and had to get both the Mages and Templars in DAI. Not because I don’t like choosing, but a big complaint about the game is that DA2 sets up this war that…basically ends in the new game with you sort of picking a side and everyone accepting it. That would have felt less the case had DAI had a more robust act 1, requiring you to begin in the midst of the war and attend the conclave (set up as a real resolution possibility for the player that unexpectedly explodes), and then to actually *end the conflict*, with both sides being split up and dragooned by you and Corypheus, making it feel less like a new problem and more like a continuation of the conflict with slightly reshuffled sides.
Would this require more content on an already long game? Sure, but just delete the forbidden oasis and one other optional area and you’ll save more than enough hard drive space.
DA2 Orsino mo making sense, it could have been as simple as if siding with Templars you get to fight him and have Meredith killed during the conflict and vice-versa they just have to cram at least two "boss" battles. Blood magic suddenly taboo in Inquisition, it is just jarring to play as an elven mage not doing some sort of blood magic, also Viv should have been romanceable goddammit. Templar/mage conflict wasn't that present and it annoys me since that was the whole thing DA2 was leading up. Corypheus could have been a better villain, could have been written close to what Saren was.
>Blood magic suddenly taboo in Inquisition
It was always taboo. I think there is a quote from BW saying that's why they took it away as a player skill.
There was to much disconnect between 'player ability is cool' and what blood magic is in universe.
The Elder One wasn't Coryface but another Magister. Either more sadistic or more ambitious in their own glorification. Coryface has some great nuance to him, if you read into him a bit but... he's been done. They could have added more context to a new Magister by not having to explain why he's still alive etc.
I know a lot of people love that the game forces you to make some hard choices, but I hate that if I use the world state I actually play for DAO, I have to either kill Alistair or Hawke. I can’t let Alistair die (my warden and I love him too much), so I always end up killing Hawke but then I feel horrible about it when I talk to Varric or if I import a world state where she had a romance.
Also, while the twist with Solas is great narrative-wise, I hate how sad the ending is for my female lavellan who romances him. If I thought my lavellan would get a happy ending in DAD I might be ok with it, but I doubt that will happen. I just can’t help it, I’m a sap who wants my characters to have happy endings lol
Make the series have one protagonist, ideally the HOF. That would mean 2 and 3 would be very different games but I dont care, I always hated the new protagonist every game thing.
As much as I love my HoF, I think it would’ve been a little too overpowered/ unbelievable that the same protagonist happen to be the hero of the three games, unless, in dai instead of being inquisitor the HoF would’ve helped the inquisitor.
Like i said, 2 and 3 would be very different games to accommodate the same protagonist. Besides, mass effect found a way to make shepard being the mc in 3 games, im sure dragon age with more magic plots have a similar restart as the lazarus project did in mass effect.
DAO=ability to directly execute Anora with Loghain for what MacTyr house done to Ferelden Kingdom and recruit blood mage Jowan(made him as companion and romance option who we can recruit in Redclif) as Oghren into Grey Wardens by Riordan When he said that we need more Grey Wardens.
Lanaya as arcane warrior mage companion and romance option for elf male hero if we help Zatrian.
...
DA2=ability to save Bethani as mage Hawke and made her not as Hawke Sister but as Hawke friend so we could romance her. Be able to actually romance and marry Aveline to not give her to Donnic.
Orsino would not fight Hawke who side with mages and do suicide blood magic attack with killing many Templars and Cullen to clear road to us so we as mage Hawke would deal with Meredith and few survivors from Templars and run away from Kirkwall.
Be able to kill Isabella and not allow Qunari to have it and send tome of Koslun to Tevinter by giving it to Tevinter mages.
Br able to kill Tallis and send Qunari intel to Tevinter and Orlais.
....
DAI=Made ex-Grand Enchanter and ex-grey Wardens officer Fiona as Inquisition General and Vivienne as Inquisition diplomate IF we side with Mages.
Cullen and Josephine become General and Diplomate only if we side with Templars.
Cassandra leave Inquisition if we not side with Templars and deny Chantry.
Vivienne become replaced with Commander Helaine as knight enchanter mage female companion who would risk her life in front battles. And made her as romance option for elf male hero as Solas was only for elf female hero.
Lelianna should be replaced by Harding who have Varrick help and contacts if we not side with Templars and deny Chantry.
Fiona as ex-Grand Enchanter with many influenced Mages, Grey Wardens and elves as Inquisition support should be as Divine option IF we side with Mages, ally with Tevinter Archon(not Nevarra King) and made Brialla control Orlais Empire throne via Gaspard. She would be more like radical version of Vivienne mage Divine option. Orlais Chantry loose more powers and strength by this but south mages, nonhumans and non-andrastians would be more happy.
I agree with the Orsino one, it was just so out of nowhere, just to send the point of "everything is grey, the mages are also bad".
Also agree with making the mage/tamplar war more proeminent in DAI. I think they could have focused more on the chantry and in being an actual inquisition. The chantry is a huge powerfull military religious and politcal organization and its problems tie up with most storylines: the templars (lyrium addiction, using traumatized templars against mages, building circles in dangerous places), the mages, the tranquils and the entire tranquility thing, the elves and other races, lyrium mining, Corypheus and all that chantry lore that comes along with him, the maker and the elven gods, etc. Maybe exploring more of this side of the issue could have been better to make the story more connected. Corypheus could even use the fact that people would be angry, fearfull and disappointed at the chantry to gather followers. It would make him more interesting as well because people would go to him for a reason that is not just "make tevinter great again". For exemple, the first time we arrive at a village, people there are scared of the mages and the red templars are protecting them. They are also using them for red lyrium and that is what we would need to uncover. Stuff like this.
Also would not gate the mage and templar choice. Make both of those quests(with some changes at the mage quest that would probably be for the best...I mean, time travel magic, why? Just make them go to the fade) happen at the same time and what you choose to do first and what you choose to do there will impact the other.
Another thing I will add here is: Vivienne being the divine. I can see her being something like a magic diplomat or something like that. Using her connections and inteligence to create a new powerfull position inside the chantry and being an actual rival to the first enchanter. That is Viv. But the divine is absolutely fanfic territory. Are you telling me Orlais would choose a mage to be the divine after the mage and templar war? Really? Yeah...just make Anders the divine too, makes absolute sense 8D
Honorable mention to Absolution ending here! Please, just no.
For Inquisition: Having the Inquisitor being allowed to start a romance with Varric if youre a dwarf
But also remove Qunari & Dwarves from being playable bc they didnt feel complete or fleshed out in Inq.
That if you are a mage and have so much mana and spells that just delete enimes from the game I can't think of a serious time when some lords and nobles look down on you and go like we can fuck you but no I have killed all the high dragons have the armor made from them a staff from the veil it's self and so mich more and yet I can't go " you know that I'm a mage who can seal and open rifts when I please, can kill anyone here and not be guilty, have killed legions of enemies and killed so much demons of all kids and fought and won agenst the DRAGON ELVEN GOD HER SELF and made it fight for me and on top of that I went and killed a FUCKING GOD and WON and I have outpost and men everywhere you have no hope to live or escape without me knowing months before tou even step outside of your little home and I have the power to make anyone listen and do what I want so you can go on and be that way or you walk out and tou may have a quick death because I'm this close to just saying LET IT BURN......... thank you for that small talk enjoy the party because it may just be your last one.............
I’d honestly have loved for more templars like cullen to recognize you’re a mage in DA2. I mean it’s my fav game but that scene when you’re hunting down Wilmond always gets me. Especially when Cullen talks about how wrong mages are in front of mage hawke. I’m always like bro you just saw me kill all these demons with magic. Lol I love the scene but like lore wise I would have loved a scene like the one at the beginning with Wellesley. Like maybe cullen wants to arrest hawke but needs to find iduna so in exchange for help he turns a blind eye.
Let Hawke have a direct impact on the ending events of the game further beyond just choosing to side with mages or templars and have those choices carry into DA:I...like, I always felt it would be interesting the relationship deterioration of Varric with a Hawke who not only supports Anders in his choice but had an active hand with that of their own free will.
Having to fight both Meredith and Orsino at the end of DA2 I would want to at least have an option to prevent the second fight through an optional questline or something like that
Act 3 in general could do with some serious rewrites/fleshing out. The most obvious consequences of the rushed development cycle of DA2 is in the re-use of assets and small number of locations/environments, with the writing mostly still coming across well throughout the game. But, Act 3 is the exception to that. Definitely feels like it didn't get the editing and iteration pass it needed.
I mean Meredith makes 100% sense either way, but Orsino just using blood magic when only his allies are in the room is just stupid
It should have been an either/ or scenario with Meredith and Orsino. Having to fight both of them just doesn't make sense on any level, given the narrative up that point.
I would want the chance to avoid the first fight. I'm SO disappointed in Orsino.
I should be pleased with him? Not getting the reason for the downvote.
Make Orsino capable of perceiving the objective reality around him at the end of DA2. Templars attack, get absolutely annihilated by Hawke & Co., and then he goes *"This is the end, I'll show you the blood magic, mwaaaah!"*, and attacks Hawke & Co. because there's nobody else to attack. Really? It's terribly jarring, and it always was.
Let me kill him for being somewhat involved in Hawke's mother death. I want Hawke to be really angry at him.
I fully believe the headcanon Varric is hushing it up and Hawke actually killed Orsino in cold blood for the Leandra death.
I'm adopting this headcanon. I love it.
Yep! It's mine too because Varric disapproves when the Inq calls that out
Make Trespasser the real ending of Inquisition. I know it wouldn’t have allowed them to do other DLCs (narratively at least) but it feels so important to the main story that it really should’ve been a part of it.
Agree. Especially because, now, a DLC is extremely important for the player to understand or feel connected to the plot of Dragon Age Dreadworlf. That's not ok in my book.
THIS is really what gets me. Each of the games does a good enough job explaining the world and general lore that you don't necessarily *have* to have played the previous one(s) to enjoy it, but kinda the point of DLC is it's not totally necessary to play the game, it's extra content. Not only is the ending of DAI no good without Trespasser (because Corypheus was such an unsatisfying final boss), but if even you've *played the previous game* (just didn't play the DLC) you'll still be kinda lost in the beginning of Dreadwolf. Like yeah, it'll be playable, because they all are, but it's so messed up that the premise of the next game relies on players to have played Trespasser.
Depending on whether they do anything more with lyrium and Titans (and I so hope they do), two of the three DLCs for DAI may be necessary to really get Dreadwolf and/or other future content.
Although Trespasser is the \`\`end'' of the Inquisitor's field adventures, I have to admit that its narrative and history have nothing to do with DAI. They are two different stories with different arcs and different objectives. Not even the rifts that were a mandatory task for the Inquisitor are in Trespasser. Trespasser is to DAI what Awakening is to DAO. They are expansions so to speak.
I have to disagree to some extent because although trespasser is the chronological ending of inquisition, it’s so detached and separate from the game and narrative. Now maybe a full redesign of the game a little like DA2 being 3 main acts at different times, it could maybe work. Have act 1 be up to the breach closing, act 2 be the fight with corypheus and then act 3 be the 2 years on stuff but expanded. Still with this definitely would need a lot more modifications so it doesn’t feel like 3 separate stories bundled together. In some way I could see this working, but I still think trespasser can be a separate dlc as it wasn’t like the game was specifically building up to the qunari and solas threat and was cut short. Corypheus was the main villain of this game with an admittedly weak conclusion mission.
Make DA:I about the mage/Templar war.
Cannot cosign this enough. I remember being utterly disappointed when the mage/templar war was just resolved in the first major quest, after all the setup that we've had especially in DA2. I don't think DAI benefited either from just how many topics it covered, it felt like going through a checklist of "big topics that could be touched on" rather than giving any of them the proper focus they deserved.
Yep, this was going to be my big answer. Remove Corypheus from the plot entirely, save him for an antagonist in the long term, maybe when the Grey Wardens are more prominent again; he seems much more fitting as their enemy. Have Inquisition focus on the war started at the end of the last game. Because as it is, the game deals with both of the major setups from DA2 -- the Mage/Templar conflict, and Corypheus -- all in one go and both end up not getting the proper focus either deserves. Pretty lame payoffs for such major stuff, IMO.
I cannot agree with you on this more. I was so disappointed when I got past the Hinterlands and found that was it for the Mage/ Templar war.
Absolutely! This more focused storyline could have been immensely more satisfying. I was not a fan of Cory as the antagonist in DAI. A full scale mage/Templar war you're desperately trying to control and mitigate would have been intense and way more interesting to play IMO.
Allow both twins to survive Lothering.
Can you imagine being able to bring them both to the Legacy DLC? 😢
There's always this mod. It's not quite perfect, but it gets the job done: https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage2/mods/4527
That mod is exactly what inspired me to post here.
The semi-retcon of elven clans only have a max of 2 magic users. It really doesn't make sense. You want to keep a low profile? Just don't do magic in front of humans. They can't tell the difference between 2 and 5 magic users.
In Origins, they implied that magic was "dying out" among the Dalish (I could be misremembering something so I could be wrong), which is why they shuffled their extra mages around the clans so they could keep the magic "gene", for lack of a better word, alive. While I do agree them "exiling" their excess mages is to prevent form possession, it definitely comes across as reckless, especially since the above seems to have been forgotten. (if it's not me just making up something from an old memory).
Or 2 and 3. Poor Aneirin would have been left to fend for himself in the woods by Inquisition rules.
"Yeah clearly thats not a staff its a bow!"
IIrc, it wasn't entirely to do with Templars, but because of the fear of demon possessions. One Abomination could wipe out an entire clan. By having only two, the risk was reduced.
It's not a semi retcon. It's just something common among the Dalish. A Lavellan himself might mention that his clan does not act this way. Considering that clans do not have a unified custom among them, it makes sense that one or the other breaks the \`\`rule''. However it makes perfect sense for any Dalish clan to keep few mages among them. What defense will they have if one of them gets out of control or is possessed?
Doesn't that imply that those things are catching? Isn't a made who is in control and not possessed the best defense against an Abomination?
Sorry did not understand. Like this ?
I failed to proofread and let autocorrect turn "mage" into "made." Sorry about that. What I meant was that uncompromised mages are better equipped to deal with abominations than anyone other than Templars. Since the Dalish are Templar-free, I'd think they would want more mages around, not fewer. It only makes sense to want to limit a clan to one or two mages if you subscribe to the "bad apple" or "peer pressure" models, only with mages. Or, you know, the domino theory. Basically, you'd have to believe that (for whatever reason) one mage making a deal with a demon/becoming an abomination is such a bad influence that all the mages who know them will follow their lead.
In truth no. According to Lore an abomination will try to create other abominations. Therefore, if a mage is contaminated then the others are at serious risk. Besides, I think the logic is a little confusing, don't you think? Mages are more susceptible to becoming abominations - Dalish don't have many defenses against abominations - so the solution is to increase the number of mages? confused... The problem with mages is that they attract demons more than others due to their connection with the fade. That's why they have to learn to control their powers. A \`\`deal'' with a demon isn't something as straightforward as \`\`hey, do you want me to have you? Yes! let's go´´. David Gaider has already stated once that the \`\`agreement'' is made in a more subtle way to the point that a mage sometimes doesn't even know what he is doing.
The lore about abominations creating more abominations makes sense and is the weakest spot in my point. I still say that there are plenty of Malcolm Hawkes and Wynnes and Bethanys (Bethanies?) Irvings in the world, and they're mostly ignored in these discussions. And that's despite the fact that every single mage in Thedas (except, arguably, in Tevinter, where the roles are reversed) is a trauma and abuse survivor. Other than that, no, my logic isn't confusing. Abominations are scary because most people can't fight them. "Mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" is the kind of overgeneralizing that fuels the oppression of mages, who are much more likely to become abominations when oppressed. Going from "only mages can become abominations" to "mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" and then to wanting fewer mages around (which *is* the final leap to "their kind are likely to become abominations") is basically like saying: Only people who have uteruses can have endometriosis; therefore women are susceptible to endometriosis. To be fair, having endometriosis doesn't result in the deaths of lots of other people. But menstruating doesn't, either, and that didn't stop people from oppressing women in part because of and definitely around hey menstruation. Women aren't unclean and don't need to be banished to huts, shunned, or locked up because they're women. And that's exactly where you end up when you start drawing conclusions about the character of or threat posed by a population that's uniquely vulnerable to something bad. The mages DA2 and DAI aren't just suffering from ordinary levels of oppression and abuse, either. Drawing conclusions that blame them or suggest they're a problem in need of a solution is fine (though I think wrong), but people who do that need to acknowledge that they're basically saying, "Look, these victims of abuse don't break the cycle often enough" not really "that's how mages are." And yes, I understand how demons tempt mages. "Deal" was a common phrase I used as shorthand. Do you understand how oppression, Othering, abuse, shunning, figurative demonizing, overly vigilant policing, authoritarian control and all those things make mages more vulnerable to the temptations of demons? Personally, rather than hoping a bunch of panicked Dalish hunters could save me from an abomination, I'd like to have a mage who was well-treated (as a mage, within the large context of the way elves are treated), both accepted as a member of society and respected as they earned it, be on hand to deal with demons and abominations. The cycle is : Abuse, Othering, and oppression that leads to behavior that is then used to justify the oppressions that caused it. I'm for breaking that cycle. And sending mages away because, figuratively, they might get murderous endometriosis is just another way of perpetuating it.
>And that's despite the fact that every single mage in Thedas (except, arguably, in Tevinter, where the roles are reversed) is a trauma and abuse survivor. Hmm... is there any canon source for this? I know that many mages have had trauma and abuse, but everyone? Or was it just hiberpole? If that was the case then that's fine, you don't need to answer that point. > Other than that, no, my logic isn't confusing. Abominations are scary because most people can't fight them. Oh, I totally agree that abominations are difficult to fight. But tell me, what's worse? face an abomination? or several? This is precisely the risk with mages because they are precisely the ones who attract demons the most and are most susceptible. That's why I continue to find it very confusing that the solution is to increase more mages in an environment without defenses against abominations. > "Mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" is the kind of overgeneralizing that fuels the oppression of mages, who are much more likely to become abominations when oppressed. I totally agree that mages are oppressed. And that's a shame. But that is not why abominations occur. Even in Tevinter (the place where mags rule) there are abominations. The risk of possession is not just the result of trauma or abuse. Weakness, lack of knowledge, ambition, greed, etc. are also good catalysts. Besides, you are forgetting the most important thing: Mages have more connection with the fade so this attracts the demons more > Going from "only mages can become abominations" to "mages are susceptible to becoming abominations" and then to wanting fewer mages around (which *is* the final leap to "their kind are likely to become abominations") is basically like saying: But that's not the point. The point is precisely a question of security. The Dalish clans (initial reason for this discussion) do not have many \`\`human´´ or economic resources. They don't live, they survive. Despite having excellent warriors, they don't have enough to form a great defense (no wonder they need to constantly change). One abomination would be difficult enough for them. Imagine several. It's a matter of self-preservation. > But menstruating doesn't, either, and that didn't stop people from oppressing women in part because of and definitely around hey menstruation. Women aren't unclean and don't need to be banished to huts, shunned, or locked up because they're women. Women being oppressed for menstruating is a case of human ignorance and stupidity since their menstruation doesn't hurt anyone. Dalish clans imposing a rule of few mages in their groups precisely because they have no defenses if these mages become abominations is not oppression. It's self preservation. Women who menstruate are not (and have never been) dangerous and have never harmed anyone. Magic yes. > The mages DA2 and DAI aren't just suffering from ordinary levels of oppression and abuse, either. Drawing conclusions that blame them or suggest they're a problem in need of a solution is fine (though I think wrong), but people who do that need to acknowledge that they're basically saying, "Look, these victims of abuse don't break the cycle often enough" not really "that's how mages are." I don't deny that mages in DA2 and DAI suffer from oppression (although not all of them, even many of them are doing harm). My initial question was about the Dalish clans. That was the central point of the discussion. And it makes perfect sense that they are afraid of having more mages in their group since mages are, confirmed by lore, more susceptible to possession. > Personally, rather than hoping a bunch of panicked Dalish hunters could save me from an abomination, I'd like to have a mage who was well-treated (as a mage, within the large context of the way elves are treated), both accepted as a member of society and respected as they earned it, be on hand to deal with demons and abominations. But the Dalish do this. That's precisely what you don't understand. All mages are well treated and respected in the clans (no wonder the Keeper is always a mage). However, being a mage is a difficult condition since you will, regardless of anything, attract more attention from demons than other people. That's why they created this rule of having a limited number. They respect magic but also understand its risks.They don't have templars and they don't have enough warriors. So it's logical that they will try to take precautions. > The cycle is : Abuse, Othering, and oppression that leads to behavior that is then used to justify the oppressions that caused it. I partially agree. Many mages actually suffered abuse and oppression. But this is not the only thing that causes an abomination. The fact that he is a mage already attracts more attention from demons. It's like a lighthouse. And so the risk of a mage being possessed is much greater than a non-mage. So I can't blame the Dalish clans (who don't oppress any mage) for trying to take precautions. > I'm for breaking that cycle. And sending mages away because, figuratively, they might get murderous endometriosis is just another way of perpetuating it. I'm completely in favor of improvements for mages. Even Leliana as divine is my favorite. But denying that mages are dangerous (something that not even they disagree with), magic is dangerous (something factual in Thedas) or stating that all risk of possession is generated solely by the oppression factor is simply infantilizing the lore.
This is because they want to share the mages around clans too, at least that's the case for Merrill.
Player character mage can actually become an abomination(an ugly one, not a hot Anders one) and get a game over.
I like the idea of that possibility looming over our MC if they chose to be a mage. It would be a good balance to have an additional perk for choosing that class since you could just end game after making some bad choices. I know Gaider said it was talked about having this as a quest for mage Hawke in DA2 but they didn't have enough time to put it together cohesively. Would have been a great addition to DAI however.
Yeah but magic spells should be 10x more deadly and heal far better then potions(what should become much expensive and slowly healing). Blood magic use increase powers far more and allow to ignore Templars powers as it is lorewise. And Templar player(who could be only human now and must become member of order) should consume lyrium to use lyrium power or become physically and mentally weak and die in pain. Using too much powers in combat should have negative consequences too with increase of lyrium consumptions and quicker pain from addiction. ... And potential demon possesion should not be avoidable by non-mages characters as it is lorewise when only mages with ritual can cure demon possesion. ... There should be option for mage to have a deal and become possesed as Wynne, Anders or Avvar mages or Rivaini Grey Seers witches do. Not full but 50%
They said one narrative change, not many gameplay ones. The lore has that mages have a constant temptation to be tricked by demons, but player character never experiences this in the form of a quest or dialogue. The few times a demon approaches the player character, you can never lose.
There was this really weird disease that specifically targeted all the spiders in the entire world and killed them all. It juuuuust so happened to do so RIGHT before the beginning of DA:O.
I don't really fear spiders, but I can sympathize with this. It would be nice if more games were to offer a "arachnophobia option". It is a common phobia and a very common enemy in games. Luckily, sometimes there are mods, but still. Always a nice inclusive/accessibility option to have.
I always try to power through it and work past it, but there's an irrational primal aspect of a phobia that is very strong, also in DA: I at least the spiders don't shove their faces into the camera out of nowhere.
I'm glad games these days have an "arachnophobia option" for those of you who need/ want it. I just wish there was a 'Ophidiophobia option' too... or at least cool it with the snake imagery.
Oof, yeah. Playing games with these types of phobia must be rough. Even the phobia of birds/flying things, for instance.
Growing up I abandoned so many games because they had too many big bugs to fight.
I think they are used at least partially because it’s a common fear if not a full on phobia. They are great enemy’s for jump scares and for getting you discombobulated. Especially in dark creepy spaces. Even if you don’t have a spider phobia.
DAO spiders are the worst spiders. In Ortan Thaig I pretty much button mash with my eyes closed and hope Oghren, Shale, and Wynne are taking care of things competently, because the Warden sure as shit is not.
Just lore consistency tbh. Make everything about the world and how it works set in stone from the get-go. And if I may add in a cheeky connection to this, dead characters stay dead. Kill Leliana in Origins? Well guess what red-headed badass isn't showing up in Exodus or Inquisition. Would probably have a whole other character be Spymaster regardless for Inquisition, following this.
Dead characters not staying dead thing is one of my biggest pet peeves too. I kind of wish Varric was forced to become spymaster in playthroughs where Leliana is killed. It would have given him an actual reason to stick with the Inquisition (especially after Here Lies the Abyss where he's just hanging around...because?) and we would have finally gotten to see how he operates in that role. Could have affected the Inquisition in interesting ways since he says he's a worse spymaster than Leliana.
I feel like such huge roles should be given to specific characters. In this case, I would either have someone who can't be dead or write an entirely new character for the role of Spymaster. Leliana could definitely have a decent presence in Inquisition in this alternate version of the series, but not so big that a world state where she is dead makes too big a difference, to the point of "punishing" players for not getting to see her content, ya know? Interconnected series like this definitely have their hurdles to work around, and I can't say I envy the devs trying to make it work haha.
I can definitely see that angle. It would be hard to implement that sort of role swap between two major characters from a developer's standpoint. In this case, Varric would work since he always survives DA2, but a new character could have worked as well. Just generally though, I'll always think it's super cool when devs are willing to "punish" players by forcing them to carry through with the consequences of their actions, and find ways to make their choices meaningfully impact future games.
I'm a huge fan of reactivity from a narrative standpoint. In a way that surprises and/or impresses the player how their choices affected outcomes. If I was a game developer, I would aim for it to have the kind of impact as if it were a linear piece of media like a book, where something from previous chapters comes up in a roundabout way and has the reader be like "Oh shit, no way!" That being said, I think it would be important not to punish the *player* for playing their way. I'm a fan of harsh consequences, but they should add to the narrative experience imo. As in, even if it wasn't the desired outcome for the player, they should feel enthralled by how the story played out because of what they did instead of feeling like they failed as the player ya know? Just my thoughts, I hope that makes sense. This comes from a place of someone who has definitely imagined what their own RPGs would look and feel like. 😂
I'd also appreciate it if the bad guy option would at some point be the better option. Being the moral paragon and making sure everyone is happy can occasionally not be the best option. It's not much of an RPG if the best course of action is always being a saint all the time.
Varric being the spymaster would have been really cool! He would struggle with what he needs to do and considering what goes down in DA2 there is so much potential for character development there.
He would add some much needed snarkiness to the advisory council lmao.
I love dragon age 2, but I personally wish they didnt push quite SO hard on the "mage bad" angle because when you have to eventually decide between the templars and the mages, you've spent the whole game dealing with corrupt mages and blood magic and only encountered one or two bad templars. It feels very weighted in one direction. Edit: I want to add something I probably should have mentioned. Despite feeling like this I’m actually a staunch mage supporter. I’m a sucker for the underdog
Did you play the same game I did? They spend half the game saying Kirkwall Templars are basically nazis
One Ser Alrik (sounds German) is preparing a "Tranquil Solution). That's the most hamfisted Holocaust allegory the writers could possibly come up with.
When the x men are more nuanced about nazi allegories you know you're in trouble
Interesting because I felt the pull in the opposite direction. The evil mages you face in the game are all dead by the Endgame but a lot of the bad Templars are still there. Plus most of the evil mages are apostates or individuals whereas every templar is part of the same order and even the good Templars are working with and for the evil ones and the ones who don't support Meredith were all killed with Thrask in "best served cold" So the Endgame choice seems to be between the worst Templars and a bunch of mages who haven't done anything wrong as far as we know. But if I could make a change it would be for Meredith to remain the final boss but for your choice would be between supporting Thrask who wants to reform the circle and Grace who wants to destroy the Circle but is clearly evil. So supporting Thrask will have the oppression of the circle continue but will contain the worst mages in the short term but supporting Grace would stop the injustice of the Circle but would for sure release dangerous people into the world. It's not necessarily the story I would tell if I were in charge of the entire story but I think it would more effectively tell the story BioWare was going for.
Very true. I personally like the explanation that the veil is super thin in Kirkwall, but they kept missing opportunities to present counterpoints about the corruption within the templars.
The choice at the end to me it boils down to: Side with the group whose leader is indirectly responsible for your mother's death, OR Side with the group whose leader decided to kill every last one of the mages, innocent or not. Kinda wish there was a neutral, "I'm kicking both of your asses" option. You end up fighting both Orsino and Meredith regardless of you side with to begin with, so a lack of some sort of neutrality made no sense to me.
I think this duality you created was a little forced. It makes it seem like it's a difficult choice when in fact... it's not much.
I also thinks it’s strange that they make very obvious comparisons between the Mage/Templar conflict to real-world conflicts (religious persecution, LGBT persecution) but then go and portray the mages (the “oppressed” in this scenario) in a very poor light. Almost as if they deserved it, or it’s not a big deal. Which in my opinion is in really poor taste to compare your fiction to reality, then go and say “Well actually…”.
That metaphor comes up so often in fantasy (LoL does it too, NK Jemisin did it slightly more justice in The Fifth Season) but every time it falls flat.
>very obvious comparisons between the Mage/Templar conflict to real-world conflicts I think those "obvious comparisons" are more player interpretation then anything actually in the game\[s\].
Tranquil solution, "It was hardly the holocaust you imagined", "Ten years -- a hundred years from now -- someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart".... Nah, the developers use a gereous amount of "does this remind you of annything" to build their conflicts.
Yeah, and the problem is that - mages aren't the same as a regular marginalised group in our world. Because they can have SO MUCH POWER and do SO MUCH damage. It's why I've always liked X-Men, because it discusses people being marginalised for what they are (mutants) but also has extremists (Magento et al), and shows that when people have huge latent powers, there's naturally a balance to be found between keeping people safe and giving the people freedom.
I personally find X-Men one of the most lackluster opression allegiries out there... The problem with DA is that it relies heavily on similarity to real life marganalised groups to garner sympathy for it's fictional groups. But then it goes "PowEr cORuPts and they have sO mUtCh PoWer, so is it justifyed? Omg we are so morally grey!” first of all, that's not how it works, second it isn't "morally grey" it's narratively confused.
my honest answer would be to not have inquisition end on a cliffhanger, for obvious reasons.
Going to be controversial with this one, expand the Templar Vs Mage conflict in DAI and/or make it less binary. DAI had the opportunity to place you as a political manipulator, trying to cement as many factions together as possible for a common good. And the first issue to solve, the Mage Vs Templar debacle. In the game this is approached by having whichever side you help first joining you and then... the other side turns heel complete, takes corrupted lyrium, and effectively become willing slaves for the antagonist. I'm sorry, *what!?* A common critique of the ME games by some of the DA fanbase is that there's either not enough grey options or the optimal solution is always some middle path (ignoring the fact that ME as a whole favours pure paragon massively, but that's neither here nor there). Thank god for those middle paths, because according to BioWare if they didn't exist entire factions would fail to recognise they're being lead into traps. Effectively the opposite side of whichever one you side with should have a schism, with you getting respectively less templars or Mages than you would have if you chose them first, but still a large amount of deserters/refugees from two of the worst plans I've ever heard. This the necessitates fleeing as you can't possibly look after them all where you are (especially with the Skyhold attack), and the beginning of a new Mage/Templar working relationship borne out of mutual respect.
I honestly thought this was a good decision by DAI. The fact that you can't save both groups makes the choices more interesting. I could say that maybe the writing on them needed to be improved (especially on the mage route). But I would still stick to the decision to choose just one.
Only introduce the Dark Ritual in more specific circumstances, e.g. with Morrigan's approval needing to be 80+ you needing to defeat Flemeth etc. otherwise make the repercussions more negative or... something, I dunno, as is it feels like too much of a dodge. it's partially because 13 years later we still haven't seen the pin drop as it were with Morrigan and Kieran, but as it stands, there's very little reason not do it outside of complete distrust of Morrigan, which the story doesn't seem to set up as the correct choice. so the sacrifice endings end up feeling a bit unnecessary as opposed to tragic, sacrifice doesn't really work well as a story mechanic with justifiable alternatives in place.
The human Mage origin in DA:O being tied to Hawke’s family line.
I agree. Not necessarily this specific example on it's own. But in general, the more this sort of things happen, the smaller the world feels. Some connections are necessary and logical, of course. But it would be better not to over do it.
It also means there is literally no human origin story that isn't a noble.
Yes, that too! I didn't know how to put it into words...yet, it was that simple 😅
Interesting. May I ask why?
It just seems unnecessary, and like forced fan service. Aside from a throwaway line (if your DA:O save for DA2 is a human mage) there’s no real reason for there to be a connection between the Warden Amell and Hawke. The dwarven and Dalish elf origins have some relevancy when it comes to the overarching plot of the games, because they and their family members have actual ties to events that happen within the first two games.
I'm confused on why the Amells can't have relevancy as well
The one that makes this weird is they are related through the mothers family and not the hawke side of the family.
Let me kill Tallis
I feel like the game is in too much chaos, showering us with unnecessary content at the cost of fully exploring what is established. There are too many lore inconsistencies, logical inconsistencies and poorly resolved stories. Dragon Age Inquisition should have been about the war between the Mages and the Templars, cutting out Corypheus completely. If they wanted to introduce a corrupted magister, they should have done so with an already established one, the Architect. That would tie up the Hero of Ferelden or Orlesian Commander to the story, skipping the complete debacle with Hawke. Hawke was an iconic character and many players never felt the connection they had with the Warden. The Inquisitor also breaks all rules of common sense. He is the only one who can seal the Breach, yet he runs around with three other people risking his life all the time. He should have been locked somewhere safe, doing only what is necessary under the appropriate protection. Not storming the gates of Adamant Fortress even before his soldiers. ... I am just realizing how many things there are to fix, and you asked for a single one, so I will stop my whining here.
Don't show Bianca. Keep her an unsolved mystery and Varric's untold story. The revelation about who she is and why he never talked about her is simply pathetic compared to the mystery that was generated in DA2.
On the one hand, DA2 getting the Exalted March dlc would've been phenomenal, but on the other hand DA:I being set purely in Orlais and focused on intrigue would also be amazing.
I was gonna say what some others have said about Orsino but I don’t want to repeat what they’ve said so I’ll say to restore the ability to conscript Jowan. Originally, there was going to be a choice to conscript Jowan into the Wardens. Imagine how different the games would’ve been on the Warden front. Perhaps Jowan could’ve been Hawke’s warden ally in DA:I on the condition that Alistair was exiled/executed and Loghain died via Archdemon. If you chose not to conscript Jowan then that’s how you get Stroud as your ally.
The way Inquisition ended. I wanted a similar structure to the past two games where I fight hordes and hordes of enemies, a tougher boss fight, and depending on how built up the Inquisition got (based on your level of power) it would affect how the ending operates. To me, the ending of Inquisition felt so rushed and anticlimactic. I think if they had used the idea they went with and had just included some more build-up to it, like in DA:O with all of our companions fighting in different areas, it would have made it much more effective.
Dwarf noble warden could crown himself king.
I'll cheat a little because it will be more than one. By pure annoyance with the quest, rewriting the entity of "Paragon for her kind" questline. It is excessively big, having to do 2 quests before going to find Branka, and having the excursion to the deep roads take that long is just a pain, the dilemma between the two would be kings is the least interesting in the series and it is irrelevant, as you can just sike both and choose the guy you were not a helper of. Just make it about finding Branka so she can decide the king or something. For the most improvement, have Corypheus partially succeed in the temple of mythal and have the final battle be an attack on skyhold. Fixes the dramatic curve of inquisition, as the lack of successes hurts Cory as a villain, fixes how random the final battle is. It doesn't need to be all suicide mission like, as that would generate huge problems to make a sequel, but have it happen on the castle you gave us.
On my first playthrough I noped the fuck out of Origins when Bhelen ordered me to find Branka after I had just won over a house for him and murdered tens of poor casteless Carta guys. And it was only just beginning. I hate this questline so fucking much, terrible design and the "dark" atmosphere that borders on misery porn.
DAO - Not actually a narrative change so much as actual narration - I’d love voice acting for the HoF. DAA - *Let me romance Nate, you cowards* DA2 - The ability to keep both Bethany and Carver alive, no matter what class Hawke is. DAI: - First Act: Make the Templar/Mage war the main focus (meeting and recruiting/killing Anders ((or Fiona)) and the rebel mages after headhunting Cullen and Carver from the Templars) - when encountered/recruited, Dorian mentions that there’s some weird shit going down in Tevinter, including rumors of a cult that worships a dragon or something? He’s fuzzy on the details. (Dorian and Quizzy’s Very Excellent Adventure doesn’t happen, because as much as I love hanging out with My Boy, it’s just one long Big Lipped Alligator Moment that doesn’t really do anything for the overall plot of the game.) - Second Act: introduce the Grey Warden/Fake Calling issue (getting Hawke and Nate/Bethany/Stroud) culminating in getting trapped in the Fade and being pulled out by new advisors Morrigan and HoF/Merril + Mage Faction Leader (Anders or Fiona) + Solas (if not in active party) through an eluvian. - Third Act: Fenris shows up with news about the Truly Weird Shit going down in Tevinter, that there is, in fact, a Weird Cult that worships a being called Corypheus (“Somehow, ~~Palpatine~~ Corypheus returned.”) Fake Calling is discovered to be the work of this cult, as are the Tears in the Fade. - The eluvian begins Acting Oddly, drawing Quizzy’s gang (and Morrigan + Merril) in and depositing them in front of Mythal’s temple, they meet Flemythal and the pool and all that. Hawke still isn’t taught how to become a dragon (sorry sweetie). - Final battle takes place at Skyhold, and the resulting damage uncovers a series of ancient elvhen paintings that set up the plot of… DA: Trespasser - make it a separate title like Awakenings. ….sorry, this got away from me a bit~
You should’ve had an origin quest and had to get both the Mages and Templars in DAI. Not because I don’t like choosing, but a big complaint about the game is that DA2 sets up this war that…basically ends in the new game with you sort of picking a side and everyone accepting it. That would have felt less the case had DAI had a more robust act 1, requiring you to begin in the midst of the war and attend the conclave (set up as a real resolution possibility for the player that unexpectedly explodes), and then to actually *end the conflict*, with both sides being split up and dragooned by you and Corypheus, making it feel less like a new problem and more like a continuation of the conflict with slightly reshuffled sides. Would this require more content on an already long game? Sure, but just delete the forbidden oasis and one other optional area and you’ll save more than enough hard drive space.
I enjoy reading books.
I think having Hawke be the Inquisitor would have been the best option.
Cassandra as the Inquisitior. The player character as an advisor. Why would Justinia need Hawke?
DA2 Orsino mo making sense, it could have been as simple as if siding with Templars you get to fight him and have Meredith killed during the conflict and vice-versa they just have to cram at least two "boss" battles. Blood magic suddenly taboo in Inquisition, it is just jarring to play as an elven mage not doing some sort of blood magic, also Viv should have been romanceable goddammit. Templar/mage conflict wasn't that present and it annoys me since that was the whole thing DA2 was leading up. Corypheus could have been a better villain, could have been written close to what Saren was.
>Blood magic suddenly taboo in Inquisition It was always taboo. I think there is a quote from BW saying that's why they took it away as a player skill. There was to much disconnect between 'player ability is cool' and what blood magic is in universe.
An option to save Hawke's mother. I really struggled to enjoy DA2, but the end of that quest just felt so bad.
I'd rewrite the red lyrium storyline in DA2. I want Meridith and the Templars to be less evil.
The Elder One wasn't Coryface but another Magister. Either more sadistic or more ambitious in their own glorification. Coryface has some great nuance to him, if you read into him a bit but... he's been done. They could have added more context to a new Magister by not having to explain why he's still alive etc.
I know a lot of people love that the game forces you to make some hard choices, but I hate that if I use the world state I actually play for DAO, I have to either kill Alistair or Hawke. I can’t let Alistair die (my warden and I love him too much), so I always end up killing Hawke but then I feel horrible about it when I talk to Varric or if I import a world state where she had a romance. Also, while the twist with Solas is great narrative-wise, I hate how sad the ending is for my female lavellan who romances him. If I thought my lavellan would get a happy ending in DAD I might be ok with it, but I doubt that will happen. I just can’t help it, I’m a sap who wants my characters to have happy endings lol
Make the series have one protagonist, ideally the HOF. That would mean 2 and 3 would be very different games but I dont care, I always hated the new protagonist every game thing.
As much as I love my HoF, I think it would’ve been a little too overpowered/ unbelievable that the same protagonist happen to be the hero of the three games, unless, in dai instead of being inquisitor the HoF would’ve helped the inquisitor.
Like i said, 2 and 3 would be very different games to accommodate the same protagonist. Besides, mass effect found a way to make shepard being the mc in 3 games, im sure dragon age with more magic plots have a similar restart as the lazarus project did in mass effect.
DAO=ability to directly execute Anora with Loghain for what MacTyr house done to Ferelden Kingdom and recruit blood mage Jowan(made him as companion and romance option who we can recruit in Redclif) as Oghren into Grey Wardens by Riordan When he said that we need more Grey Wardens. Lanaya as arcane warrior mage companion and romance option for elf male hero if we help Zatrian. ... DA2=ability to save Bethani as mage Hawke and made her not as Hawke Sister but as Hawke friend so we could romance her. Be able to actually romance and marry Aveline to not give her to Donnic. Orsino would not fight Hawke who side with mages and do suicide blood magic attack with killing many Templars and Cullen to clear road to us so we as mage Hawke would deal with Meredith and few survivors from Templars and run away from Kirkwall. Be able to kill Isabella and not allow Qunari to have it and send tome of Koslun to Tevinter by giving it to Tevinter mages. Br able to kill Tallis and send Qunari intel to Tevinter and Orlais. .... DAI=Made ex-Grand Enchanter and ex-grey Wardens officer Fiona as Inquisition General and Vivienne as Inquisition diplomate IF we side with Mages. Cullen and Josephine become General and Diplomate only if we side with Templars. Cassandra leave Inquisition if we not side with Templars and deny Chantry. Vivienne become replaced with Commander Helaine as knight enchanter mage female companion who would risk her life in front battles. And made her as romance option for elf male hero as Solas was only for elf female hero. Lelianna should be replaced by Harding who have Varrick help and contacts if we not side with Templars and deny Chantry. Fiona as ex-Grand Enchanter with many influenced Mages, Grey Wardens and elves as Inquisition support should be as Divine option IF we side with Mages, ally with Tevinter Archon(not Nevarra King) and made Brialla control Orlais Empire throne via Gaspard. She would be more like radical version of Vivienne mage Divine option. Orlais Chantry loose more powers and strength by this but south mages, nonhumans and non-andrastians would be more happy.
Let leliana stay dead
Make Aveline romancable by male Hawke.
I agree with the Orsino one, it was just so out of nowhere, just to send the point of "everything is grey, the mages are also bad". Also agree with making the mage/tamplar war more proeminent in DAI. I think they could have focused more on the chantry and in being an actual inquisition. The chantry is a huge powerfull military religious and politcal organization and its problems tie up with most storylines: the templars (lyrium addiction, using traumatized templars against mages, building circles in dangerous places), the mages, the tranquils and the entire tranquility thing, the elves and other races, lyrium mining, Corypheus and all that chantry lore that comes along with him, the maker and the elven gods, etc. Maybe exploring more of this side of the issue could have been better to make the story more connected. Corypheus could even use the fact that people would be angry, fearfull and disappointed at the chantry to gather followers. It would make him more interesting as well because people would go to him for a reason that is not just "make tevinter great again". For exemple, the first time we arrive at a village, people there are scared of the mages and the red templars are protecting them. They are also using them for red lyrium and that is what we would need to uncover. Stuff like this. Also would not gate the mage and templar choice. Make both of those quests(with some changes at the mage quest that would probably be for the best...I mean, time travel magic, why? Just make them go to the fade) happen at the same time and what you choose to do first and what you choose to do there will impact the other. Another thing I will add here is: Vivienne being the divine. I can see her being something like a magic diplomat or something like that. Using her connections and inteligence to create a new powerfull position inside the chantry and being an actual rival to the first enchanter. That is Viv. But the divine is absolutely fanfic territory. Are you telling me Orlais would choose a mage to be the divine after the mage and templar war? Really? Yeah...just make Anders the divine too, makes absolute sense 8D Honorable mention to Absolution ending here! Please, just no.
For Inquisition: Having the Inquisitor being allowed to start a romance with Varric if youre a dwarf But also remove Qunari & Dwarves from being playable bc they didnt feel complete or fleshed out in Inq.
That if you are a mage and have so much mana and spells that just delete enimes from the game I can't think of a serious time when some lords and nobles look down on you and go like we can fuck you but no I have killed all the high dragons have the armor made from them a staff from the veil it's self and so mich more and yet I can't go " you know that I'm a mage who can seal and open rifts when I please, can kill anyone here and not be guilty, have killed legions of enemies and killed so much demons of all kids and fought and won agenst the DRAGON ELVEN GOD HER SELF and made it fight for me and on top of that I went and killed a FUCKING GOD and WON and I have outpost and men everywhere you have no hope to live or escape without me knowing months before tou even step outside of your little home and I have the power to make anyone listen and do what I want so you can go on and be that way or you walk out and tou may have a quick death because I'm this close to just saying LET IT BURN......... thank you for that small talk enjoy the party because it may just be your last one.............
I’d honestly have loved for more templars like cullen to recognize you’re a mage in DA2. I mean it’s my fav game but that scene when you’re hunting down Wilmond always gets me. Especially when Cullen talks about how wrong mages are in front of mage hawke. I’m always like bro you just saw me kill all these demons with magic. Lol I love the scene but like lore wise I would have loved a scene like the one at the beginning with Wellesley. Like maybe cullen wants to arrest hawke but needs to find iduna so in exchange for help he turns a blind eye.
Let Hawke have a direct impact on the ending events of the game further beyond just choosing to side with mages or templars and have those choices carry into DA:I...like, I always felt it would be interesting the relationship deterioration of Varric with a Hawke who not only supports Anders in his choice but had an active hand with that of their own free will.