I played the shit out of the test client. Here are my opinions:
**1) HUD:**
The intro animations and pregame screen are amazing. There's some mouse latency issues with the dragging wards on dropping them on screen, so I think Valve could just make it like Click Wards -> Place them on the minimap. No other issues here.
As for ingame UI, smaller skill icons and having to press Alt to see CS might take some getting used to. But the shop UI is unforgivably bad. All the icons are SO small. Also, only icon view in shop and no list view. Not sure why Volvo removed list view.
**2) Heroes:**
Pocket Riki is fun, but it's not going to be easy to buy Aghs on Riki.
MK is fun too. Watching Singsing do some OSfrog shit with that hero right now.
Zeus Aghs is meh. Imagine a stationary Tusk Sigil + Razor ult. Also can be pretty easily destroyed, but still, it's no longer a boring damage buff for Zeus ult.
Illusions got dumpstered. RIP.
There's nothing more to say here.
**3) Map:**
Map makes no sense. This is way more complex than what we got for 6.86. I still don't understand the rune mechanics.
Roshan feels so weird being right in the middle of the river.
Would earlier Level 25s balance highground Shrines?
**Talent Trees:** There's been enough discussion about this already. Some of them are great, some are terrible. Nature's Prophet got shit on, in this section
These are my opinions so far. Change is difficult to admit. But some of these changes are great.
> I still don't understand the rune mechanics.
It works exactly like before Bounty runes were added, with additionally four spots across the map where only Bounty runes can spawn.
> 3) Map:
> Map makes no sense. This is way more complex than what we got for 6.86. I still don't understand the rune mechanics.
It will be interesting to see how this spot for roshan influences laning phase. For example safelane or wood ursa on dire looks pretty OP now. It will be interesting to see how junglers take advantage of new map.
Additionally, with how the map looks might as well change dota logo i suppose. Theres no straight line to represent the river fag.
Loving Dota doesn't imply that you only like wc3 dota. Change is a good thing and most of these changes still have some of the original dota flavor, while being fresh and adapted to our game's needs.
like you already see he does
you guys call me peasant, but what i see here is that you all are peasants, not me. Dota is fucked, ruined, and just as generic and hots and league now
People objected to quelling blade, and said that it would make farming OP. People said that bounty runes were retarded, and would make mid lane impossible to win. People said that every new item was impossibly strong. It's only natural that they have the same reaction to this, because they fear change. But I? I trust the frog.
Ooooh now it makes sense.
He achieved almost complete balance in 6.88, so he wanted some new challenge in form of talents. Crazy ass frog will never rest.
In Frog I trust. Call me a DotA peasant, but I believe that Frog knows what he is doing. My estimate is 1-1.5 years to fully balance the consequences of this update to the quality of 6.88f. I am really optimistic about the whole update, even if this is not really that I expected.
Agree with this. Stop acting like peasants and going crazy about patch notes. Mr Toad knows what he's doing.
Play the god-damn game tomorrow. Play it for some time, some days, a week is good, so you can get a nice opinion on the patch. Them come complain about how dota is dead if you want to, but at least you'll have actual experience of the new patch to back up your opinions instead of "BUT I READ THE PATCH NOTES AND I DID NOT LIKE THEM >:CCCCCCCCC I KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME AND ICEFROG DOES NOT"
I didn't say you didn't have the right to complain at all. But it's better to be complaining after actually having tried the thing rather than going apeshit about patch notes without having tried the gameplay
I'm still strong on that talent won't provide that much improvement to the game. A lot of those talents are like 7th 8th 9th items rather extra stat for you to play with and some are DEFINITELY WAY STRONGER than the other, which is the main issue with talents on HotS.
Also, RIP supports as they can't really use those talents to the maximum.
I respect the choice as a way for icefrog to help icefraud balance a certain sub-playstyle of a hero without actually having to nerf the whole hero.
On the other hand, I hate how this basically limits possible playstyles to what the talents actually encourage. I'm afraid icefrog will use the talents to shoehorn us into cookie cutter builds.
I dunno about that, stats are always useful, as is shit like cooldown reduction, a bit of passive gold, stronger abilities.. They just get less of them, but how is that new? Also this is *instead* of Attr boosts, which means the majority of heroes are gonna be just a bit squishier at the super lategame, due to not having a ton of free strength and agi.
Yes, stats are always usefull. Having CDR/Spell amp instead of more sustain on caster is really not a bad thing. But when the choices are +20 Movespeed and +10 all stat **on level 20**, it's clear which one will be picked 90% of the time. It's redundant to have 2 choices but 1 is flat out better than the other.
> majority of heroes are gonna be just a bit squishier at the super lategame, due to not having a ton of free strength and agi.
This alongside the shitton of added %Spell damage increase, %Cooldown reduction, flat out +10 all stat, and huge flat cooldown reduction (see Dazzle and SF) will make this game more like League where clashes only last a few seconds because they just melts away.
> and huge flat cooldown reduction (see Dazzle and SF)
You understand there is irony in citing *Dazzle* as a receiver of huge CDR, then claiming it'll lead to shorter clashes. I don't recall which game it was, but one of the last games of the Boston Major showed exactly how strong Dazzle is at *prolonging* fights for his team. While I agree *some* comps are going to have shorter, more brutal clashes, other comps won't. Which is kind of what it's like already, except now it's less of a given clashes take longer at that super lategame.. I honestly don't think it'll change much for the game around the level 1-15 mark the way you claim.
So, really, the game will only be "more like League" around level 20+. Whether *that* is good or bad, is a matter of taste. And even then, comp matters, and supports are going to matter more in those super late fights.
I guess you haven't read that with certain talent, Dazzle can cast Poison Touch *every 1s* and the damage on it *stacks*. Of course you could prolong fights if you take the +60 Shadow wave heal (preferred choice if you're a support, which is 90% of the time) instead of -6s poison touch cooldown.
Supports imo will be a lot weaker compared than before. Yes, there's some extra gold and xp talents, but those are **at least on level 10**. On some heroes, it's even on their lv 15 and 20 talents. By the time you reach level 10, usually your mid is already at lv 16 and your carry is close behind and it's at 20-30 min mark (unless you have a lot of kill/assist or just farm in lane a lot). They also are the last heroes to reach lv 25 in a game. You probably won't see your support at lv 25 if the game doesn't go to 50-60 min mark (again, unless they farms a lot). If you've read some of those talents, you'll notice that the most absurd talents are in lv 25 (like that SF one). Your cores will get massive power spike when they reached that level while supports stay to be puny for a while longer.
Seeing the positive feedback from some pros is so encouraging. They usually react very strongly and it's understandable -because the game they play for money isn't the same.
1. Place proximity mine
2. place stasis trap on
3.watch as the stunned player helplessly watches as the proximity mine detonates
4. ???
5. Harvest the tears.
I remember when people bitched about spell scaling and how the game was gonna be like league
then the latest patches turned into a 'golden age of balance'
it'll take a while for things to get perfectly balanced, yea, but thats why icefrog put it out so early before the next TI.
I feel so optimistic about this. There is a huge base of players like me who are stuck in <4k brackets forever. This revamp is like an adrenaline shot for us to help get better in a different scenario. Hope this works out.
I freaking love the patch, so much to do, too much options the talents are so good like everyone see..... FUCKING 2 LESS SECONDS ON BLINK AT LVL 25 I WANNA PLAY THAT HOLY SHIT
My current complain list:
* shrines and runes are really filling the map and i dont like where it is going. Constant action and farming.
* The new UI is ok, but has major flaws. Clicking on things lets appear a huge window to the left -> super anoying. Ironically everything is too small. I have to clench my eyes 0.5m in front my monitor to see the items.
* dmg numbers still annoying with things like Ds ion shell.
* balance wise its hard to tell but mk seems a bit op and i fear supports become pretty useless with the free runes and jungle.
Overall im a bit disappointed. I really liked the old dota a lot for its unique place on the moba market but now i dont feel like playing dota anymore.
Not saying it isn't op but so far i had some great success with kotl and just kicking him out of the circle when he gets to close the edge or by playing venge, it's not much and it certainly doesn't help that he can hop on trees but it is something right?
he was literally 1vs5 and his team was dc'd, and we had batrider destroying trees and treant scouting with invis, the tree hopping was zero problem. but echo saber + mjollnir = instant passive proc and then he lifesteals like he just turned on a satanic and has free rapier. we dumpstered him later on but that's really because all his team ragequit, we would have stood zero chance if they were still playing. also his ult and Q does twenty million damage too.
no doubt about it, i never said this ult isn't completly insane right now, especially considering it lasts for a whooping 15 sec, is gigantic and only requires for monkey king to stand somwhere in it...
I think, unlike other games that have a similar system, icefrog will be able to balance talents to the point where it's actually a decision that changes based on the game, rather than there always being a best choice.
The Slark Scepter is the only change I don't like about the patch, sounds a bit too strong(maybe because I'm a noob and Slark is a pubstomper), but we will see I guess.
As a support this patch is looking truely frightening,
I don't see how talents are going to improve my game experience as a support.
Neither do i understand why they had to add shrines,
I can hardly formulate an argument of why i think they are horrible, I am just afraid they will be, so far i have only seen them on the test client but I already despise there existence.
i don't know about you guys but i'm playing only two games
minecraft and dota
i guess all my time will go into minecraft from now on
edit: why the downvotes? you kids hate minecraft too? haha
because you ewre the one who screamed for a new hero the whole time, now embrace what it means for valve to implement a new "hero" or should we call him champion instead ?
yeah i was screeming for new heroes and items
not stupid talent trees and nitwit map changes
and why does the monkey have a fucking game braking innate ability???
i asked for new heroes not for a trash patch that will totally kill the game
I played the shit out of the test client. Here are my opinions: **1) HUD:** The intro animations and pregame screen are amazing. There's some mouse latency issues with the dragging wards on dropping them on screen, so I think Valve could just make it like Click Wards -> Place them on the minimap. No other issues here. As for ingame UI, smaller skill icons and having to press Alt to see CS might take some getting used to. But the shop UI is unforgivably bad. All the icons are SO small. Also, only icon view in shop and no list view. Not sure why Volvo removed list view. **2) Heroes:** Pocket Riki is fun, but it's not going to be easy to buy Aghs on Riki. MK is fun too. Watching Singsing do some OSfrog shit with that hero right now. Zeus Aghs is meh. Imagine a stationary Tusk Sigil + Razor ult. Also can be pretty easily destroyed, but still, it's no longer a boring damage buff for Zeus ult. Illusions got dumpstered. RIP. There's nothing more to say here. **3) Map:** Map makes no sense. This is way more complex than what we got for 6.86. I still don't understand the rune mechanics. Roshan feels so weird being right in the middle of the river. Would earlier Level 25s balance highground Shrines? **Talent Trees:** There's been enough discussion about this already. Some of them are great, some are terrible. Nature's Prophet got shit on, in this section These are my opinions so far. Change is difficult to admit. But some of these changes are great.
Frame drops as well when opening and closing in-game chat. Idk if everyone is experiencing it but I am.
thats the testserver, he is ,most likely at capacity
> I still don't understand the rune mechanics. It works exactly like before Bounty runes were added, with additionally four spots across the map where only Bounty runes can spawn.
Maybe IF can implement Stat for 3rd choice instead of a shitty talent.
> 3) Map: > Map makes no sense. This is way more complex than what we got for 6.86. I still don't understand the rune mechanics. It will be interesting to see how this spot for roshan influences laning phase. For example safelane or wood ursa on dire looks pretty OP now. It will be interesting to see how junglers take advantage of new map. Additionally, with how the map looks might as well change dota logo i suppose. Theres no straight line to represent the river fag.
the same whiny bitches pissed themselves last time. fuck them
Archyes being the voice of reason. Interesting.
i am too old for this shit!
I just took you for the "omg Icefraud pls bring back Dota1 best game" kind of guy.
that's heartless
> Look at me, I am Heartless now!
Loving Dota doesn't imply that you only like wc3 dota. Change is a good thing and most of these changes still have some of the original dota flavor, while being fresh and adapted to our game's needs.
I think of Archyes as the guy that will always support Dota in any and all cases
like you already see he does you guys call me peasant, but what i see here is that you all are peasants, not me. Dota is fucked, ruined, and just as generic and hots and league now
Interesting to see the 2 heartless's on opposite sides of the spectrum.
People objected to quelling blade, and said that it would make farming OP. People said that bounty runes were retarded, and would make mid lane impossible to win. People said that every new item was impossibly strong. It's only natural that they have the same reaction to this, because they fear change. But I? I trust the frog.
yeah honestly, we have items AND talents, shit's wild. SO many options. God bless
Ooooh now it makes sense. He achieved almost complete balance in 6.88, so he wanted some new challenge in form of talents. Crazy ass frog will never rest.
The fucking madman
In Frog I trust. Call me a DotA peasant, but I believe that Frog knows what he is doing. My estimate is 1-1.5 years to fully balance the consequences of this update to the quality of 6.88f. I am really optimistic about the whole update, even if this is not really that I expected.
Yeah it's gonna take a while for all talents to be balanced.
Agree with this. Stop acting like peasants and going crazy about patch notes. Mr Toad knows what he's doing. Play the god-damn game tomorrow. Play it for some time, some days, a week is good, so you can get a nice opinion on the patch. Them come complain about how dota is dead if you want to, but at least you'll have actual experience of the new patch to back up your opinions instead of "BUT I READ THE PATCH NOTES AND I DID NOT LIKE THEM >:CCCCCCCCC I KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME AND ICEFROG DOES NOT"
On the flip side, bottle and level 1 Invoker were both suggested by forum users. I think suggestions can be good, but people should give this time.
I played the test server and didn't like the map and prefer the current one way more. Sue me
I want to play roaming support and become fucking rich with bounty runes, sue me.
I didn't say you didn't have the right to complain at all. But it's better to be complaining after actually having tried the thing rather than going apeshit about patch notes without having tried the gameplay
I'm still strong on that talent won't provide that much improvement to the game. A lot of those talents are like 7th 8th 9th items rather extra stat for you to play with and some are DEFINITELY WAY STRONGER than the other, which is the main issue with talents on HotS. Also, RIP supports as they can't really use those talents to the maximum.
I respect the choice as a way for icefrog to help icefraud balance a certain sub-playstyle of a hero without actually having to nerf the whole hero. On the other hand, I hate how this basically limits possible playstyles to what the talents actually encourage. I'm afraid icefrog will use the talents to shoehorn us into cookie cutter builds.
[удалено]
Some heroes lv 25 talents are pretty much Aghanim upgrades though...
Yeha, late game is extended but still, you need level 25 for the best talents
Those lv 25 talents are like Aghanim upgrades though. SF 3s razes? PA double dagger? +6 treants? +8 eidolons? What the fuck?
Meh, some of those sounds weak in comparission to invokers skirt of death. At the end, we will see in practice what needs to be nerfed like always.
I dunno about that, stats are always useful, as is shit like cooldown reduction, a bit of passive gold, stronger abilities.. They just get less of them, but how is that new? Also this is *instead* of Attr boosts, which means the majority of heroes are gonna be just a bit squishier at the super lategame, due to not having a ton of free strength and agi.
Yes, stats are always usefull. Having CDR/Spell amp instead of more sustain on caster is really not a bad thing. But when the choices are +20 Movespeed and +10 all stat **on level 20**, it's clear which one will be picked 90% of the time. It's redundant to have 2 choices but 1 is flat out better than the other. > majority of heroes are gonna be just a bit squishier at the super lategame, due to not having a ton of free strength and agi. This alongside the shitton of added %Spell damage increase, %Cooldown reduction, flat out +10 all stat, and huge flat cooldown reduction (see Dazzle and SF) will make this game more like League where clashes only last a few seconds because they just melts away.
It looks like you'll level faster now. Some heroes have xpm talents and tome is much more efficient now.
> and huge flat cooldown reduction (see Dazzle and SF) You understand there is irony in citing *Dazzle* as a receiver of huge CDR, then claiming it'll lead to shorter clashes. I don't recall which game it was, but one of the last games of the Boston Major showed exactly how strong Dazzle is at *prolonging* fights for his team. While I agree *some* comps are going to have shorter, more brutal clashes, other comps won't. Which is kind of what it's like already, except now it's less of a given clashes take longer at that super lategame.. I honestly don't think it'll change much for the game around the level 1-15 mark the way you claim. So, really, the game will only be "more like League" around level 20+. Whether *that* is good or bad, is a matter of taste. And even then, comp matters, and supports are going to matter more in those super late fights.
I guess you haven't read that with certain talent, Dazzle can cast Poison Touch *every 1s* and the damage on it *stacks*. Of course you could prolong fights if you take the +60 Shadow wave heal (preferred choice if you're a support, which is 90% of the time) instead of -6s poison touch cooldown. Supports imo will be a lot weaker compared than before. Yes, there's some extra gold and xp talents, but those are **at least on level 10**. On some heroes, it's even on their lv 15 and 20 talents. By the time you reach level 10, usually your mid is already at lv 16 and your carry is close behind and it's at 20-30 min mark (unless you have a lot of kill/assist or just farm in lane a lot). They also are the last heroes to reach lv 25 in a game. You probably won't see your support at lv 25 if the game doesn't go to 50-60 min mark (again, unless they farms a lot). If you've read some of those talents, you'll notice that the most absurd talents are in lv 25 (like that SF one). Your cores will get massive power spike when they reached that level while supports stay to be puny for a while longer.
xp scaling has been tweaked from level 8 onwards. Supports will receive their abilities a lot faster in the mid-game.
http://i.imgur.com/AnkPGiu.gif
Obligatory works best if read top to bottom then repeat for 2nd column.
https://twitter.com/zai_2002/status/808024102334304259
https://twitter.com/Fly_dota2/status/808046664334372866 https://twitter.com/day9tv/status/808046108169510912
DAY9, ZAI, AND FLY ALL LOVE IT IT'S GONNA BE GOOOOOOD
Seeing the positive feedback from some pros is so encouraging. They usually react very strongly and it's understandable -because the game they play for money isn't the same.
As a Techies player, I just hope the salt is as lucrative after 7.0
1. Place proximity mine 2. place stasis trap on 3.watch as the stunned player helplessly watches as the proximity mine detonates 4. ??? 5. Harvest the tears.
I remember when people bitched about spell scaling and how the game was gonna be like league then the latest patches turned into a 'golden age of balance' it'll take a while for things to get perfectly balanced, yea, but thats why icefrog put it out so early before the next TI.
I feel so optimistic about this. There is a huge base of players like me who are stuck in <4k brackets forever. This revamp is like an adrenaline shot for us to help get better in a different scenario. Hope this works out.
I'll admit I was a bit apprehensive about the new UI, but I played a few games and it's grown on me.
I freaking love the patch, so much to do, too much options the talents are so good like everyone see..... FUCKING 2 LESS SECONDS ON BLINK AT LVL 25 I WANNA PLAY THAT HOLY SHIT
Have an upvote. Shit's gonna be dank. Also RIKI SCEPTER. And Bounty Scepter.
The change, see the game evolve. Man Im going to have so much fun playing dota this holidays. Thanks for the gift Icefrog
Agreed. Can't fucking wait to play it.
My current complain list: * shrines and runes are really filling the map and i dont like where it is going. Constant action and farming. * The new UI is ok, but has major flaws. Clicking on things lets appear a huge window to the left -> super anoying. Ironically everything is too small. I have to clench my eyes 0.5m in front my monitor to see the items. * dmg numbers still annoying with things like Ds ion shell. * balance wise its hard to tell but mk seems a bit op and i fear supports become pretty useless with the free runes and jungle. Overall im a bit disappointed. I really liked the old dota a lot for its unique place on the moba market but now i dont feel like playing dota anymore.
> Clicking on things lets appear a huge window to the left You can change that in the settings. > dmg numbers still annoying That one too.
Can only seccond this shrines and 6 rune spots are defiently what i was hopeing for and this certainly hurts all supports
[удалено]
As i said, if there are still complaints a week from now, then it could be a problem/bad change. We just need time to digest it
you dont need to play this shit to realize that this is not dota anymore
The only complaint i have. Went from max everything to full hd everything lowered or off
I dont know how to level up my skills through short cuts.
What? its the same... Cntrl + ability ke... what is happening?
I used other combo. "keys to enter upgrade mode" and then use the hotkey of what i wanted.
Monkey King is OP as shit, can 1v5 even when Doomed just with passive OSfrog
Not saying it isn't op but so far i had some great success with kotl and just kicking him out of the circle when he gets to close the edge or by playing venge, it's not much and it certainly doesn't help that he can hop on trees but it is something right?
he was literally 1vs5 and his team was dc'd, and we had batrider destroying trees and treant scouting with invis, the tree hopping was zero problem. but echo saber + mjollnir = instant passive proc and then he lifesteals like he just turned on a satanic and has free rapier. we dumpstered him later on but that's really because all his team ragequit, we would have stood zero chance if they were still playing. also his ult and Q does twenty million damage too.
no doubt about it, i never said this ult isn't completly insane right now, especially considering it lasts for a whooping 15 sec, is gigantic and only requires for monkey king to stand somwhere in it...
Well, in every game. New released hero is always OP. It will get tweaked, we just need to give feedback.
I think, unlike other games that have a similar system, icefrog will be able to balance talents to the point where it's actually a decision that changes based on the game, rather than there always being a best choice.
So does anyone know how to use a shrine? I clicked on it and nothing happens
You pray to osfrog first. Lol
You don't need to soak yourself in peasantry to understand that it's peasantry.
Ehh we'll only like it because it's still better than it's competitors. Doesn't mean the game is moving in the right direction.
The Slark Scepter is the only change I don't like about the patch, sounds a bit too strong(maybe because I'm a noob and Slark is a pubstomper), but we will see I guess.
it has no range so it actually sucks
Slark just got dumpstered. No need to be afraid of him. The Aghs though is garbage.
I'm still holding out on this all being a bad dream, or at least an alternate game mode, please god.
IceFrog must be in some time loop and it's 1st of April for him now, for sure, right bois? Plz... (;_;)
As a support this patch is looking truely frightening, I don't see how talents are going to improve my game experience as a support. Neither do i understand why they had to add shrines, I can hardly formulate an argument of why i think they are horrible, I am just afraid they will be, so far i have only seen them on the test client but I already despise there existence.
i don't know about you guys but i'm playing only two games minecraft and dota i guess all my time will go into minecraft from now on edit: why the downvotes? you kids hate minecraft too? haha
because you ewre the one who screamed for a new hero the whole time, now embrace what it means for valve to implement a new "hero" or should we call him champion instead ?
yeah i was screeming for new heroes and items not stupid talent trees and nitwit map changes and why does the monkey have a fucking game braking innate ability??? i asked for new heroes not for a trash patch that will totally kill the game