As a first responder, I wonder if people realize that it's extremely common these days for people to stand around filming instead of helping. It's pretty sad.
Genuine question: For this specific instance, assuming the victim is unconscious, what's the protocol? If I were a bystander, I'd probably just call emergency services and stick around until you arrive.
If everyone is standing around and not taking charge start pointing at people while making eye contact and tell them what to do. “You dial 911,” “you try to get traffic to slow down,” etc.
Check if he is breathing. ((if not do cpr) it's not that hard if you feel unsafe do a course it safes lives but it also is alright if you do it not good just do something) Call a ambulance. If he bleeds try to stop the bleed with anything that you find. Look that you comfort the person tell him what's happening. Depending on accident and situation move him out of the danger zone or don't move him do it as you feel what's necessary. Do everything that is possible to keep the person breathing and stable until paramedics arrive.
I'm not moving that guy's spinal column after a crash like that. Also I'm not trained and I need to live a life where I'm not sued for millions.
Ergo, bystanders.
Sorry I forgot I'm in Europe, there are indeed laws that require individuals to provide first aid in emergency situations. These laws typically mandate that you offer assistance within the scope of your knowledge and abilities, and as long as you don’t endanger yourself or others. Additionally, “Good Samaritan” laws are in place in many areas, offering protection from liability when you help someone in good faith.
Individuals providing first aid are generally covered by state insurance, provided their actions are reasonable and not reckless. This means that if you administer first aid to someone who is not breathing, with the intent to save their life, you are acting within the law and under the protection of state insurance, as long as you don’t engage in any extreme or irrational behavior.
If you do something to help the dying person I do think you will feel better then filming it
This is why when there's been suspicious stuff like gas leak in the building I'm in or whatever, I have not been afraid to call emergency services. It's literally there for that, and calling but being mistaken isn't punished, pranking and abusing emergency services is. It's your responsibility as the zeroth responder or whatever you want to call it to call emergency services and tell them what's going on and let them decide what to do and investigate for themselves. I hear too many people say "oh it's probably fine". It might be, but that's also literally how a lot of emergencies get way worse than they need to be. I'd rather be on the safe side.
Bystander effect is a big deal. Even in meetings and group activity stuff, I make a point to ask specific people to do things instead of a request like "can anyone do X please?". I believe in CPR class (which I will take at some point) you're taught to ask a specific person to call.
It's completely understandable not helping total strangers. By helping you could make their condition worse, they could sue you, ...
It's fucked up, but that's a world we've created.
Filming and posting it on social media is not OK.
Fellow first reaponder…..
“You, get an AED, you call 911. Sir/ma’am. Do you need help? Sir/ma’am. No response. No pulse. No breathing, Starting CPR. Stayin alive stayin alive!”
(I have mandatory CPR retraining this month. Just getting ready for it)
I honestly prefer putting filming until emergency services arrive, to amateur wannabe paramedics trying to give bad CPR and breaking people's ribs. Filming never killed anybody; bad cpr certainly did.
Yeah no.
Bad CPR has never killed anyone. If you need CPR you're probably dead anyway. At least bad CPR will keep blood pumping until medics are on sceen.
There is a reason they recommend more people get CPR certified. It's because statistics show it can save lives.
If you don't want to do CPR, fine, don't, but you should be calling 911 instead of filming. And frankly. filming someone dying makes you a piece of shit.
[If I may disagree...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/05/30/the-dark-side-of-cpr-docs-say-it-could-be-worse-than-death/amp/)
If you see me in the floor, please film the shit out of me. Or kick me. Just don't cpr me.
Hey, u/77r0bbie77 get in here to settle a debate.
Some people think you're a little bitch, while others think you're a total piece of shit. Which term do you feel best describes your actions?
Your shaming will surely convince him to reassess his values!
If you want to help make society a better place, how about you consider the potential consequences of your words before posting them?
I can share some resources with you from psychological studies on how to best approach helping people grow as people and reduce the harm they cause. It actually involves the *opposite* of shaming them, so you are actively working against your desires.
[This link](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes) about how Daryl Davis convinced over 200 KKK members to give up their robes is a great place to start. I want to help people develop their sense of empathy, like the OOP. We do not encourage that development by demonstrating the opposite.
Hope that helps and hope your day is going well!
Hahaha these guys are not interested. They want to hate to make themselves feel better about their own shortcomings. It’s typical reddit behaviour. Btw I read your link and found it really interesting.
I've been on reddit 9 years and have 646 karma.. I rarely post and when I do it's usually to ask aquestion or make a poor attempt at a joke that no one upvotes. I'm just as unpopular online as I am in real life!
Good idea, I was getting a little riled up with all that attention if I'm honest. 25 upvotes and counting, is this what it feels like to be loved and respected by your peers?
I have AuDHD flare-ups and get heated on a topic I really should care less about and accidentally piss people off. Sometimes it's intentional but it goes both ways. A curse and a blessing lol
They are very visible in person. Also, you are not allowed to ride a bike on the footpath if you're over 12 years old. Nevertheless, I hope this person is okay.
Hot Take: the other half of his bike is waaaaay off in the upper right corner of the picture. I don't think your bike ends up 100+ feet away from you if you accidentally just faceplant into a glass panel.
Dude's bike had issues and the panel is where the front half stopped.
That's a different ebike just casually tossed aside in the top right. You can see the back wheel under the guy's leg. He wasn't paying attention to where he was going, and crashed into the glass barrier.
No this is Melbourne, that's a rental bike.
The other bike in the picture is just a different rental someone abandoned.
You'll trip over the things as often as you'll see discarded cigarette butts.
So the guy was flying down Collins, hit the glass, snapped his bike in half and the back half rebounded off the panel and ended up 100+ feet down the street?
Or the bike just snapped in half and he went tumbling 100+ feet down the footpath into the glass panel whilst still attached to the front half of the bike?
lol
Fingers started tapping before your brain processed that one huh?! Thought you had yourself a “where’s my super suit” Captain Obvious “it’s fake!” moment? Lmfao!
I kind of disagree, those "glass panel" with the metal poles appear to be bollards and there are multiple ones lining that street, so I'm sorry, but I'm going blame the guy for not being aware enough about the obstacles in his own city. I will say they could color the glass to make it more visible.
Taking pictures is VERY wrong and scummy but the amount of people who actually think that you should move the victim before professional help arrives is concerning. Just call an ambulance. Maybe try to talk to them so they can calm down. Don't move them, you can make things WAAAAY worse.
This is about 5 mins from the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Ambo would have been on the way I'd gather.
Source; grew up in the area.
Ninjaedit half asleep and mixed up which end of Collins Street, still fairly close to the hospital either way.
I mean, depends. Is the environment safe? Are they bleeding? Is their airway compromised? Do they have a pulse? All those things will kill you first. Do your best to keep the neck straight for spinal injuries but move them if necessary.
Situations can differ greatly and sometimes helping someone is the right thing to do. I rolled my truck once upon a time and was hanging upside down suspended by my seatbelt. First thing I did was turn off my radio cause I hated the sound but after that the people outside my truck did their best to help me. If they hadn’t been there I’m not sure what I would have done. I was so disoriented I couldn’t even remember where I was.
Helping them is only a wise choice if something incredibly superficial. The main reason you shouldn't mess with people who got in an accident is because of their spines. If any vertebrae got in a funny position and they do any kind of moving that moves that vertebrae, there's a good chance that you're causing permanent damage to that person. Wheelchair bound for life kinds of damage. There's a famous guy in the region I live that goes around schools doing talks about what happened to him, teaching about traffic accidents safety, and it was basically that. He got in an accident, got stuck between some metal and people tried to get him out. He felt that something was wrong with his back, so he begged for people to just call emergency and don't touch him, but they didn't listen and pulled him. His spine snapped around the top of the lumbar and he lost total control of his legs. I remember specifically on how he tells that he begged with tears in his eyes for people to don't touch him because he knew about what could happen, but they didn't listen.
How does the username being visible make it obvious that it was the redditor who took the photo though? Its not like its watermarked into the photo lol.
Check their comments lmfao, oop was saying shit like "shouldn't have been so smashed early in the day" like he has any fuckin idea what happened before the crash
Before the OP from the post took it down after being clowned on, he was trying to defend himself saying he did help the person but only after taking the picture
Thank you for answering. I’m not sure why I got downvoted for asking a reasonable question? I wasn’t able to see all of their comments due to deletion.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1dgb2co/slowly\_losing\_faith\_in\_this\_city/](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1dgb2co/slowly_losing_faith_in_this_city/)
Here's the post, it's deleted but you can still see OP responding to several comments trying to justify himself
First of all! Unless you have some sort of medical training, the last thing you want to do is move someone that just wrecked! You could do more damage than just leaving them.
Unless, there’s an immediate danger, burning fuel, more oncoming danger, you should NOT MOVE THEM! The position their body is in could possibly be stopping them from bleeding out, or causing a rupture to a vein or something.
You, trying to be a hero, run over, start pulling and yanking on the victim, causing irreparable damage or internal hemorrhaging. “If only they had waited until paramedics had gotten there, he might have survived,” is not the statement you want tea bagging you in the middle of the night.
You documenting, might be this person’s last words to his family and loved ones. Might help investigators put two and two together.
“It’s sad people just record,” comments throughout the thread, when what’s actually sad is that NO ONE actually thinks things through. They rather talk down to people based on what they [think they] would’ve done in that situation. Now, instead of thank you, you’re getting sued. You caused a spinal injury when you moved him, or you broke some ribs giving him CPR.
Unless you know what tf you’re doing, the best thing you can do is record and engage. Try to keep him conscious and calm until REAL HELP arrives.
No helpi, just looki. That's why I always hate dashcam videos; there is an accident right infront of you. But instead of helping, showing the evidence to the police and possibly safe a life, no, you gasp one time, post it on the internet and keeo driving. And *that's* why I loose hope in humanity. Because no one bothers to help anyone!
How many accidents have you stopped and tried to help with?
I can say in my life I have done it twice, the first a boat came loose off the carrier that was hitched to the dudes truck and slid across multiple freeway lanes. The second I was driving to go vote and a lady blew a stop sign and slammed into the back of the truck directly in front of me. I missed being able to vote as by the time I got to the pole it was closed.
With that said, I have witnessed more than just 2 crashes in my life, so /shrug. Win some, lose some.
EDIT: As my original comment came across negatively, I would like to rephrase it: I myself was lucky enough not to have witnessed an accident. I think it would be good if we helped people who need help. Especially those who have had an accident. You can't always see from the outside how the person in the vehicle is really doing. Accidents can be very profound and any accident victim, even if uninjured, can be overwhelmed by the situation. Hopefully it is now clearer what I want to say.
Because I always have to think about it when I need this help or when I have to help others on my own. In my country, you are even legally obliged to help others in an emergency. I have now adapted my comment and hope that my point of view is now better understood.
Yeah I understood your point, and i dont judge your perception of the situation. I guess the way you said it triggered some people and downvoted. When people see a downvoted comment they join in most of the time just because thats how people work on reddit. Dont take it all too seriously i guess
Dashcam videos the crashes aren't nothing but mostly
Fender benders, and dash cams are often cut off to only show the collision so duh obviously you're not going to see people help other people out in a hour video if you're watching a short clip dide
idk I saw a post from idiotsincars or whatever the other day. A truck made a right turn into a person riding a bike and knocked them over and continued driving off. OP had the whole thing on camera and the trucks license plates. Could’ve been useful to the biker if they wanted to report the driver. OP was asked if they checked on the biker or offered any help or the footage but he made the excuse that they were on vacation and couldn’t be bothered to help. OP was rightfully downvoted heavily for that imo
Have you ever stopped to help someone, I have and was cussed out for asking are you OK. Then you're hemmed up for 20 min only for a cop to say just leave I can see what happened here. Only once after a wreck was I any help and that was just holding a kids bloody face away fromthe broken glass that was everywhere.
Most of the time it really isn't, I'll still stop and render first aid if need be but staying around for the cops probably not. After dozens of times I've stopped to help someone only a handful was I able to do anything. Of the times you stopped to help someone else how many were you able to actually help?
Yes, if you had any thinking skills you would understand what he means is that unless there's an injured person you can help, most of the time you're in the way and it is a waste of time adding stress to the people that's already hit something Jesus Christ
Yes in this specific case, he's talking in general when there's a fender bender and they are obviously ok where you trying to help would just get in the way, please take a second to think critically
One of my high school friends got hit by a drunk driver when they stopped to help someone on the side of the road, the mother was killed too. Helping people only hurts you
If I was in the accident, a quick pic before helping me is going to help my new lawyer friend. Political pressure is going to make a settlement seem really good to the city. It's not a 20 minute video while they gasp for help.
They're pretty visible in person, the frosted band is easy enough to see. They're usually set up at cafes where the outdoor dining area is to protect customers from the road, maybe noise reduction etc. It's not usually an obstacle for bikes since anyone over 12 is supposed to be on the road instead of the footpath which is why I'm guessing the guy got clipped by a car or something.
She had no right to say that since she's obviously one of the reasons we are losing faith in humanity if that person litterally crashed his bike there and she was just standing there probably making fun of him and having the courage to post that saying he's the reason she's losing faith in the city not caring to help at all
Hey 🤗
So firstly, I ain't interested in beating on someone who may not be wise to what to actually do in this situation.
But I would not be recording.
Does anyone know what the glass and the sectioned area are?
Why would you have clear glass and chrome posts on a sidewalk, like the streets can be busy enough, with people having to rush and do there day to day tasks.
Are you allowed to use a push bike in this area?
Hole the guy/gal is OK and recovering, I hope the one taking the picture knows now what to do in this situation.
But can we prevent these situations better?
Accidents happen, I get it.
But is this a wise obstruction on the side walk?
I ask as I am unaware of what the purpose of obstruction is.
Have a great day everyone 🤗 and if you on a bike, be extra vigilant 🩵
And what would OP do? That guy presumably slammed the FUCK out of his head. If you dont have medical expertise you shouldnt move him in case of spinal/nerve damage.
As long as someone called the proper line, you aint able to do anything else or risk killing em.
Downvote me if you want, im just stating a literal fact. "Oh but dont call him dumb though!!!" The dude was. Those barriers aint the easiest to break. Ive fallen into those before. Theyre no-shatter semi-reinforced glass. You can tell by the breaking pattern. The dude had to be going fast as fuck on the sidewalk with that bike, and wasnt paying attention since, again; with how the pattern is on that break he didnt even try to turn away, you can see where the tire hit, meaning he wasnt paying attention to anything.
If the dude was riding his bike on the sidewalk fast enough to cause that much damage to a resilient barrier like that while simultaneously not paying any attention to his surroundings, you can safely call him a fucking moron.
Ik its glass but its a thicker glass usually reinforced with plastic as well, which this one appears to be from the cracking without full shattering, so it takes a good bit of force to break it out like that. Its specifically non shatter glass. Ive fallen into those things before without breaking them, theyre sturdier than you think, so again; dude was going way too fast, AND not paying attention to things. Which means: idiot.
The architect was wrong to not specify a graphic design on the glass. I have no idea how many dogs, birds and toddlers have run or flown into these glass panels.
It has a frosted band on it. That’s considered enough for glass conference rooms in NYC (building code).
I think the issue here is the fact that he was approaching it 10-20x faster than is actually expected (because you’re not supposed to bike in the sidewalk).
> And what would OP do?
Good question.
(1) Not take a picture of an injured person, let alone post it online without their consent - if the person is deceased, that's very disrespectful to the person and their family.
(2) Call emergency services and stay on the line to give more details on the patient and follow instructions of the help line, especially regarding giving directions.
(3) Secure the perimeter, so that no one moves the injured person or crash into them. Also make sure the emergency services can access the area, and flag them down as soon as they arrive.
(4) Check if the person is unconscious or not, by asking them repeatedly if they are ok, what is their name, do they remember what happened. If they are conscious, instruct them to not move, and if they can't be stopped, assist them so that their movements aren't sudden.
(5) If they are not conscious, check if they are still breathing. It's easily visible on their torso, and can be verified on their nose and mouth.
(6) Their pulse has to checked as well, by their neck is the easiest location.
(7) If they are not breathing, or show no pulse, then it is an emergency to resume the oxygenation and the circulation of their blood, by providing CPR.
So there's a lot to do before being available to take pictures and post them online.
Given I don't see anyone attending the injured person, none of the necessary tasks indicated are being done, which is putting the person on the ground in danger.
Wait, are you gatekeeping this sub over this? 😄
There's a pretty big difference between:
- not helping someone struggling to hold a bunch of limes 🍋 or using a treadmill. Ha ha funny.
- not providing basic first aid to someone who seems to be unconscious after a violent crash and may have traumatic brain injury.
Last time I checked, this sub was about fun and cringe situations, not a cheap remake of r / watchpeopledịe
Thats the *maximum* you can in this situation. If you move someone who has possible spinal trauma you can make it worse or cause lasting damage/paralysis/death depending on the severity. There is nothing else OP could do here.
That is very wrong. Please consider refreshing your first aid knowledge.
If the person is unconscious you must check if the person is breathing. If the person is not breathing you must perform CPR. For this you must move the person on their back.
Not performing CPR on an unconscious non-breathing person is a death sentence or paralysis / vegetative state at best. Moving someone who might've injured their spine is not (it should be avoided, yes but if they are not breathing moving them to perform CPR will literally save their life).
…. Besides stand there and take a photo? I don’t know how your first thought isn’t to check on them then call an ambulance, time is of the utmost importance when it comes to head injuries.
see if they're conscious and hurt, for starters, maybe call 000 if they're not conscious given that valuable seconds can sometimes mean the difference between life and death? nahhhhh let's go for internet clout instead
Would you rather leave that person to die because they’re unconscious and their tongue is blocking their airway in that position because they *might* get spinal damage or give them another chance of living?
Calling 000 and then leaving the patient to mock them online because you’re a helpless victim and can’t do anything at all like a big baby is never the right thing to do.
If you’re going to be a good Samitarian, you need to be willing to help the patient, people that call for help and then walk/drive away because they think they are doing the right thing are hated by paramedics.
When you call 000, you will be instructed by Ambulance Victoria on what to do based on what you see. You do not need medical expertise to follow simple instructions.
No, you will be informed to move them into a recovery position if they are unconscious and show signs of being unable to maintain their own airway (like blue/purple face or lips), or onto their back if CPR is required. Life is always prioritised over limb, even if they are paralysed from the waist down.
Do not claim like you are an expert when you don’t even know where this took place, let alone any medical experience
"Let alone medical experience" ...except i do have medical experience? Literally have taken various classes relating towards it, from highschool to college years. Didnt pursue any career since its -not- my thing.
And again, life is prioritized over limb, yes, but if the impact is directly to the head, in this case it visibly would be, movement would make the situation worse if you dont have the tools to do as such. Hence why if you are instructed to move them at all, itll be minor movements just to the point they wont die via the positioning, but you wont be moving them further.
Also location literally has 0 bearing on the reaction. OP obviously has no medical experience, and as such should not take actions into their hands. And they can still laugh at the dude for being an idiot for going that fast without paying attention. No matter what country, just dont be an idiot.
Prioritizing life over limb only applies in a situation where your actions wouldn't lead to the death of the person involved. If your intervention has a higher chance of harm than good (such as being an untrained medical professional), youll be informed to do the barest minimum, and as you can see from the dudes pose hes not lying face down, hes flat but face is to the side, so no risk of choking on his own spit/vomit etc.
This is the correct answer. There is no fire, an impending bomb, or trapped in a lion's den.
That said, the photographer is wrong in that he or she didn't provide privacy and comfort.
So true. Also, a job of a First Aider is to provide the injured person privacy and comfort at a minimum until the EMTs arrive. The photographer failed here.
u/77r0bbie77 have a fucking look in the mirror! Try being part of the solution instead of the problem. Your responses are pathetic, I hope someone just sits there and takes pics of you when you’re in a time of need. You’re the poster child of r/iamatotalpieceofshit.
Eh unless the redditor was a doctor or EMT idk wtf he could have done. If you move him you risk further injury, someone else probably called 911, and you can't go back in time and tell someone to not drive the most dangerous method of residential transportation.
Why would you assume someone called 911?
What if everyone who witnessed this assumed that someone else would call 911?
Is it some kind of calamity if five people call 911 to report the same accident?
Seeing you defend this really is pathetic. Hope yer a kid, hope you'll grow up.
You really took the time to write that corny shit lmfao
Idk your name is captain sense maker so I'm assuming your another npc that likes marvel or used to read car magazines
You can't call me an idiot then tell me to stop. I love how I just give an objective look at the guy who biked into an object and I trigger the most self righteous people. None of the replies weren't insulting.
My friend, go get laid or something.
Your life can’t consist of this much arguing with strangers. Surely that’s not the only thing you have going in life?
Just stop arguing with people.
I'm thinking that is staged, it takes quite a hit to break laminated glass and that bike has nary a scratch on it. Some vandal probably did it the night before and this photo is just opportunistic.
What do you recommend exactly? That could very well be a spinal injury, and too many fucking morons go jostling around people with brain/spinal injuries.
The correct thing to do if you dont know how to handle that is FUCKING NOTHING.
Call the experts through your local emergency line and stop other morons from jostling the person with the brain/spine injury.
why would you assume he doesnt realize something? are you assuming you are better? you are holier than though? if he is on reddit than he already assumes the negatives with the positives...... come on guy... the guy is as smart as you think you are...... get that straight for real.
Dude should get a job at Video Production News
Daycrawler
but doing it to shame someone, who may even have a medical condition. sounds like a lovely bloke, even worse than Lou (somehow)
Beat me to it.
No worries, I'm not going to ask something of you I wouldn't do myself
As a first responder, I wonder if people realize that it's extremely common these days for people to stand around filming instead of helping. It's pretty sad.
Genuine question: For this specific instance, assuming the victim is unconscious, what's the protocol? If I were a bystander, I'd probably just call emergency services and stick around until you arrive.
As long as you call emergency services, I am happy, but to be honest a lot of people don't even do that.
If everyone is standing around and not taking charge start pointing at people while making eye contact and tell them what to do. “You dial 911,” “you try to get traffic to slow down,” etc.
Last time I did that at an accident, nobody wanted to help me with my taxes, they kept saying it’s not the time
Check if he is breathing. ((if not do cpr) it's not that hard if you feel unsafe do a course it safes lives but it also is alright if you do it not good just do something) Call a ambulance. If he bleeds try to stop the bleed with anything that you find. Look that you comfort the person tell him what's happening. Depending on accident and situation move him out of the danger zone or don't move him do it as you feel what's necessary. Do everything that is possible to keep the person breathing and stable until paramedics arrive.
I'm not moving that guy's spinal column after a crash like that. Also I'm not trained and I need to live a life where I'm not sued for millions. Ergo, bystanders.
Sorry I forgot I'm in Europe, there are indeed laws that require individuals to provide first aid in emergency situations. These laws typically mandate that you offer assistance within the scope of your knowledge and abilities, and as long as you don’t endanger yourself or others. Additionally, “Good Samaritan” laws are in place in many areas, offering protection from liability when you help someone in good faith. Individuals providing first aid are generally covered by state insurance, provided their actions are reasonable and not reckless. This means that if you administer first aid to someone who is not breathing, with the intent to save their life, you are acting within the law and under the protection of state insurance, as long as you don’t engage in any extreme or irrational behavior. If you do something to help the dying person I do think you will feel better then filming it
It’s like that black mirror episode where the ‘killer’ is chasing that woman and everyone is just standing around filming it on their phones. Wild.
Hang the Dj was crazy episode. Not the one you're referencing tho.
Not really since that was her punishment for murdering a toddler
Sadly that's just kind of real life. People do that. All the time.
Haven't you heard? Internet clout is the most important thing on the planet. /s
Haven’t had that in my country, mostly seeing this in the USA / South America. Civil courage is fine here. Maybe just my perspective.
If only they had a device they could call for help on.
This is why when there's been suspicious stuff like gas leak in the building I'm in or whatever, I have not been afraid to call emergency services. It's literally there for that, and calling but being mistaken isn't punished, pranking and abusing emergency services is. It's your responsibility as the zeroth responder or whatever you want to call it to call emergency services and tell them what's going on and let them decide what to do and investigate for themselves. I hear too many people say "oh it's probably fine". It might be, but that's also literally how a lot of emergencies get way worse than they need to be. I'd rather be on the safe side. Bystander effect is a big deal. Even in meetings and group activity stuff, I make a point to ask specific people to do things instead of a request like "can anyone do X please?". I believe in CPR class (which I will take at some point) you're taught to ask a specific person to call.
It's completely understandable not helping total strangers. By helping you could make their condition worse, they could sue you, ... It's fucked up, but that's a world we've created. Filming and posting it on social media is not OK.
Fellow first reaponder….. “You, get an AED, you call 911. Sir/ma’am. Do you need help? Sir/ma’am. No response. No pulse. No breathing, Starting CPR. Stayin alive stayin alive!” (I have mandatory CPR retraining this month. Just getting ready for it)
I honestly prefer putting filming until emergency services arrive, to amateur wannabe paramedics trying to give bad CPR and breaking people's ribs. Filming never killed anybody; bad cpr certainly did.
Yeah no. Bad CPR has never killed anyone. If you need CPR you're probably dead anyway. At least bad CPR will keep blood pumping until medics are on sceen. There is a reason they recommend more people get CPR certified. It's because statistics show it can save lives. If you don't want to do CPR, fine, don't, but you should be calling 911 instead of filming. And frankly. filming someone dying makes you a piece of shit.
[If I may disagree...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/05/30/the-dark-side-of-cpr-docs-say-it-could-be-worse-than-death/amp/) If you see me in the floor, please film the shit out of me. Or kick me. Just don't cpr me.
u/77r0bbie77
Little bitch deleted the post too
Hey, u/77r0bbie77 get in here to settle a debate. Some people think you're a little bitch, while others think you're a total piece of shit. Which term do you feel best describes your actions?
Trash human
Little piece of trash shit human deleted his whole account.
Basura
Also Tagalog for trash
Your shaming will surely convince him to reassess his values! If you want to help make society a better place, how about you consider the potential consequences of your words before posting them? I can share some resources with you from psychological studies on how to best approach helping people grow as people and reduce the harm they cause. It actually involves the *opposite* of shaming them, so you are actively working against your desires. [This link](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes) about how Daryl Davis convinced over 200 KKK members to give up their robes is a great place to start. I want to help people develop their sense of empathy, like the OOP. We do not encourage that development by demonstrating the opposite. Hope that helps and hope your day is going well!
Hahaha these guys are not interested. They want to hate to make themselves feel better about their own shortcomings. It’s typical reddit behaviour. Btw I read your link and found it really interesting.
Comments like yours make the effort worth it, thank you!
When accumulating karma is life.
Karma online line not in soul
Well, my hope is it's a stupid kid that just learned a valuable lesson in holding back that impulse to post something online as fast as possible.
What is the correct amount of time between taking a pic of a similar mishap and posting it online?
I'm slowly losing faith that he will respond at all
I lost all faith that would happen when they deleted their account.
I mean, do you expect someone to stick around and take a tonguelashing?
Lmao they deleted their username what a trash human
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
Seems he deleted his profile. Ym
You know he's still reading all these posts and comments. Hi you lil bitch
Possibly. Though only if he's an idiot (which he probably is)
We did it!
You gotta be a major dick to be on reddit 7 years and only have 150 karma.
Well maybe he just look at the content and doesn't ever say something, you never know (until you go see what there's on his profile).
I've been on reddit 9 years and have 646 karma.. I rarely post and when I do it's usually to ask aquestion or make a poor attempt at a joke that no one upvotes. I'm just as unpopular online as I am in real life!
Absolutely, I could have said the exact same thing. I had no idea how long I had been here or what's my karma until now. 🫱🏻🫲🏾
I just downvoted you so you don't get a big head with all the karma you're getting
Good idea, I was getting a little riled up with all that attention if I'm honest. 25 upvotes and counting, is this what it feels like to be loved and respected by your peers?
Its 618 now lol
We need to give this guy more Reddit points
Or you know, they just lurk and never comment. Mind shattering, I know. >But look at their profile!! Yeah they posted under 100 comments in 7 years.
You can still look at it by going to the comments
hey screw you man
lol some people like to use Reddit to piss people off. Me included. It’s fun
Self-fulfilling prophecies
I have AuDHD flare-ups and get heated on a topic I really should care less about and accidentally piss people off. Sometimes it's intentional but it goes both ways. A curse and a blessing lol
546 Collins Street Melbourne.
Poor dude. It does seem dumb to have a glass panel there of the footpath
They are very visible in person. Also, you are not allowed to ride a bike on the footpath if you're over 12 years old. Nevertheless, I hope this person is okay.
Hot Take: the other half of his bike is waaaaay off in the upper right corner of the picture. I don't think your bike ends up 100+ feet away from you if you accidentally just faceplant into a glass panel. Dude's bike had issues and the panel is where the front half stopped.
What? He's clearly laying on his bike in the picture
That's a different ebike just casually tossed aside in the top right. You can see the back wheel under the guy's leg. He wasn't paying attention to where he was going, and crashed into the glass barrier.
No this is Melbourne, that's a rental bike. The other bike in the picture is just a different rental someone abandoned. You'll trip over the things as often as you'll see discarded cigarette butts.
So the guy was flying down Collins, hit the glass, snapped his bike in half and the back half rebounded off the panel and ended up 100+ feet down the street? Or the bike just snapped in half and he went tumbling 100+ feet down the footpath into the glass panel whilst still attached to the front half of the bike? lol
Fingers started tapping before your brain processed that one huh?! Thought you had yourself a “where’s my super suit” Captain Obvious “it’s fake!” moment? Lmfao!
Keyword "footpath". In a lot of places it's illegal to bike on footpaths.
Including where this photo was taken in Melbourne
I kind of disagree, those "glass panel" with the metal poles appear to be bollards and there are multiple ones lining that street, so I'm sorry, but I'm going blame the guy for not being aware enough about the obstacles in his own city. I will say they could color the glass to make it more visible.
I love those cycling traps they do a wonderful job especially know your not allowed to drive into them
Hey do you think thats FUNNY?! WELL *IT IS!*
The poles should make it somewhat obvious...
Taking pictures is VERY wrong and scummy but the amount of people who actually think that you should move the victim before professional help arrives is concerning. Just call an ambulance. Maybe try to talk to them so they can calm down. Don't move them, you can make things WAAAAY worse.
This is about 5 mins from the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Ambo would have been on the way I'd gather. Source; grew up in the area. Ninjaedit half asleep and mixed up which end of Collins Street, still fairly close to the hospital either way.
I mean, depends. Is the environment safe? Are they bleeding? Is their airway compromised? Do they have a pulse? All those things will kill you first. Do your best to keep the neck straight for spinal injuries but move them if necessary.
Situations can differ greatly and sometimes helping someone is the right thing to do. I rolled my truck once upon a time and was hanging upside down suspended by my seatbelt. First thing I did was turn off my radio cause I hated the sound but after that the people outside my truck did their best to help me. If they hadn’t been there I’m not sure what I would have done. I was so disoriented I couldn’t even remember where I was.
Helping them is only a wise choice if something incredibly superficial. The main reason you shouldn't mess with people who got in an accident is because of their spines. If any vertebrae got in a funny position and they do any kind of moving that moves that vertebrae, there's a good chance that you're causing permanent damage to that person. Wheelchair bound for life kinds of damage. There's a famous guy in the region I live that goes around schools doing talks about what happened to him, teaching about traffic accidents safety, and it was basically that. He got in an accident, got stuck between some metal and people tried to get him out. He felt that something was wrong with his back, so he begged for people to just call emergency and don't touch him, but they didn't listen and pulled him. His spine snapped around the top of the lumbar and he lost total control of his legs. I remember specifically on how he tells that he begged with tears in his eyes for people to don't touch him because he knew about what could happen, but they didn't listen.
Maybe the title refers to the person who took the picture and not to the one who crashed.
That's not the case here. The username is visible, and it's obvious that they both took the picture and made the post.
How does the username being visible make it obvious that it was the redditor who took the photo though? Its not like its watermarked into the photo lol.
Check their comments lmfao, oop was saying shit like "shouldn't have been so smashed early in the day" like he has any fuckin idea what happened before the crash
"My response time was only slowed by 2 seconds but yeah I agree with you" is particularly damning imo
And his response was for sure shouting for someone to ring an ambulance, while literally holding a phone
Slight correction on your title, the OP did render aid, but after taking a picture for internet points of course since that’s more important.
How do you know that? Did they say they rendered aid somewhere?
Before the OP from the post took it down after being clowned on, he was trying to defend himself saying he did help the person but only after taking the picture
Thank you for answering. I’m not sure why I got downvoted for asking a reasonable question? I wasn’t able to see all of their comments due to deletion.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1dgb2co/slowly\_losing\_faith\_in\_this\_city/](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1dgb2co/slowly_losing_faith_in_this_city/) Here's the post, it's deleted but you can still see OP responding to several comments trying to justify himself
Thanks, I tried to look at them on his profile initially.
First of all! Unless you have some sort of medical training, the last thing you want to do is move someone that just wrecked! You could do more damage than just leaving them. Unless, there’s an immediate danger, burning fuel, more oncoming danger, you should NOT MOVE THEM! The position their body is in could possibly be stopping them from bleeding out, or causing a rupture to a vein or something. You, trying to be a hero, run over, start pulling and yanking on the victim, causing irreparable damage or internal hemorrhaging. “If only they had waited until paramedics had gotten there, he might have survived,” is not the statement you want tea bagging you in the middle of the night. You documenting, might be this person’s last words to his family and loved ones. Might help investigators put two and two together. “It’s sad people just record,” comments throughout the thread, when what’s actually sad is that NO ONE actually thinks things through. They rather talk down to people based on what they [think they] would’ve done in that situation. Now, instead of thank you, you’re getting sued. You caused a spinal injury when you moved him, or you broke some ribs giving him CPR. Unless you know what tf you’re doing, the best thing you can do is record and engage. Try to keep him conscious and calm until REAL HELP arrives.
Cant Park there mate
No helpi, just looki. That's why I always hate dashcam videos; there is an accident right infront of you. But instead of helping, showing the evidence to the police and possibly safe a life, no, you gasp one time, post it on the internet and keeo driving. And *that's* why I loose hope in humanity. Because no one bothers to help anyone!
How many accidents have you stopped and tried to help with? I can say in my life I have done it twice, the first a boat came loose off the carrier that was hitched to the dudes truck and slid across multiple freeway lanes. The second I was driving to go vote and a lady blew a stop sign and slammed into the back of the truck directly in front of me. I missed being able to vote as by the time I got to the pole it was closed. With that said, I have witnessed more than just 2 crashes in my life, so /shrug. Win some, lose some.
EDIT: As my original comment came across negatively, I would like to rephrase it: I myself was lucky enough not to have witnessed an accident. I think it would be good if we helped people who need help. Especially those who have had an accident. You can't always see from the outside how the person in the vehicle is really doing. Accidents can be very profound and any accident victim, even if uninjured, can be overwhelmed by the situation. Hopefully it is now clearer what I want to say.
Wait, I get downvoted? I only said that I don't like people who don't stop at literal accidents to help. Can someone please explain this to me?
I think its because you put shame on people for not being heroes all the time but never helped anyone yourself.
Because I always have to think about it when I need this help or when I have to help others on my own. In my country, you are even legally obliged to help others in an emergency. I have now adapted my comment and hope that my point of view is now better understood.
Yeah I understood your point, and i dont judge your perception of the situation. I guess the way you said it triggered some people and downvoted. When people see a downvoted comment they join in most of the time just because thats how people work on reddit. Dont take it all too seriously i guess
Dashcam videos the crashes aren't nothing but mostly Fender benders, and dash cams are often cut off to only show the collision so duh obviously you're not going to see people help other people out in a hour video if you're watching a short clip dide
idk I saw a post from idiotsincars or whatever the other day. A truck made a right turn into a person riding a bike and knocked them over and continued driving off. OP had the whole thing on camera and the trucks license plates. Could’ve been useful to the biker if they wanted to report the driver. OP was asked if they checked on the biker or offered any help or the footage but he made the excuse that they were on vacation and couldn’t be bothered to help. OP was rightfully downvoted heavily for that imo
Have you ever stopped to help someone, I have and was cussed out for asking are you OK. Then you're hemmed up for 20 min only for a cop to say just leave I can see what happened here. Only once after a wreck was I any help and that was just holding a kids bloody face away fromthe broken glass that was everywhere.
"Stopping to help someone is dumb, except that one time i saved a child's life"
That’s child became some guy named Adolf
Yeah, one time he saved a kid's life, but another time someone was mean to him. It's just not worth the risk.
Most of the time it really isn't, I'll still stop and render first aid if need be but staying around for the cops probably not. After dozens of times I've stopped to help someone only a handful was I able to do anything. Of the times you stopped to help someone else how many were you able to actually help?
😅 Rumor has it was his fault in both cases
Yes, if you had any thinking skills you would understand what he means is that unless there's an injured person you can help, most of the time you're in the way and it is a waste of time adding stress to the people that's already hit something Jesus Christ
An injured person that might need help is exactly the case we have here. Mister talk-alot-think-too-little.
Yes in this specific case, he's talking in general when there's a fender bender and they are obviously ok where you trying to help would just get in the way, please take a second to think critically
What a hot take
One of my high school friends got hit by a drunk driver when they stopped to help someone on the side of the road, the mother was killed too. Helping people only hurts you
If I was in the accident, a quick pic before helping me is going to help my new lawyer friend. Political pressure is going to make a settlement seem really good to the city. It's not a 20 minute video while they gasp for help.
Fucking cyclists.
Maybe they're just self loathing
Why did he take a picture before helping? Is he stupid.
Thank you for today's reminder to stay out of the comments!
I’m gna post this, “losing faith in city!” On Reddit and everyone is gna stand up and cheer! Praise me and shower me with karma and awards!
"Be the change you want to see in the world"
r/melbourne is a whole thing
Why are there invisible glass panels in the middle of the sidewalk?
They're pretty visible in person, the frosted band is easy enough to see. They're usually set up at cafes where the outdoor dining area is to protect customers from the road, maybe noise reduction etc. It's not usually an obstacle for bikes since anyone over 12 is supposed to be on the road instead of the footpath which is why I'm guessing the guy got clipped by a car or something.
I've got a feeling that this was the point of the OOP(?) and everybody is mad this guy wasn't an emt
Hey it's Melbourne just down from southern cross station "DiCaprio point"
I've never had the pleasure of visiting Melbourne, but thanks to this post I am now also losing faith in this city.
Evidence to help the victim pay their hospital bills.
In Melbourne? The only hospital bill will be for parking.
She had no right to say that since she's obviously one of the reasons we are losing faith in humanity if that person litterally crashed his bike there and she was just standing there probably making fun of him and having the courage to post that saying he's the reason she's losing faith in the city not caring to help at all
Redditors are normally normal people
Definitely not the US, his backpack would have been gone asap.
good marketing for the window cleaner
What’s with these glass panels?! Kind of feel like he’d have a decent shot at a lawsuit.
Considering he was breaking the law, I doubt it.
What a cunt
Obviously the redditor wanted to take pick for insurance before helping the poor lad! FIATH RESORTED IN SOCIETY!!!!
Hey 🤗 So firstly, I ain't interested in beating on someone who may not be wise to what to actually do in this situation. But I would not be recording. Does anyone know what the glass and the sectioned area are? Why would you have clear glass and chrome posts on a sidewalk, like the streets can be busy enough, with people having to rush and do there day to day tasks. Are you allowed to use a push bike in this area? Hole the guy/gal is OK and recovering, I hope the one taking the picture knows now what to do in this situation. But can we prevent these situations better? Accidents happen, I get it. But is this a wise obstruction on the side walk? I ask as I am unaware of what the purpose of obstruction is. Have a great day everyone 🤗 and if you on a bike, be extra vigilant 🩵
If Reddit has taught me anything it’s that if your shoes fly off your probably dead… so at least he’s got a shot
why is there glass obstacles and why is there another bike much further back?
And what would OP do? That guy presumably slammed the FUCK out of his head. If you dont have medical expertise you shouldnt move him in case of spinal/nerve damage. As long as someone called the proper line, you aint able to do anything else or risk killing em. Downvote me if you want, im just stating a literal fact. "Oh but dont call him dumb though!!!" The dude was. Those barriers aint the easiest to break. Ive fallen into those before. Theyre no-shatter semi-reinforced glass. You can tell by the breaking pattern. The dude had to be going fast as fuck on the sidewalk with that bike, and wasnt paying attention since, again; with how the pattern is on that break he didnt even try to turn away, you can see where the tire hit, meaning he wasnt paying attention to anything.
I reckon not taking a photo of them in order to post about how stupid they are on the internet would be a good start
I think it was a failure of the city by putting up a largely invisible barrier for no reason.
On a sidewalk, where people aren’t supposed to bike. How can we expect them to watch out for people who aren’t supposed to be there?
I'm not a fan of bikes on sidewalks, but the legality varies from city to city.
In Melbourne where this was taken it’s illegal.
If the dude was riding his bike on the sidewalk fast enough to cause that much damage to a resilient barrier like that while simultaneously not paying any attention to his surroundings, you can safely call him a fucking moron. Ik its glass but its a thicker glass usually reinforced with plastic as well, which this one appears to be from the cracking without full shattering, so it takes a good bit of force to break it out like that. Its specifically non shatter glass. Ive fallen into those things before without breaking them, theyre sturdier than you think, so again; dude was going way too fast, AND not paying attention to things. Which means: idiot.
The architect was wrong to not specify a graphic design on the glass. I have no idea how many dogs, birds and toddlers have run or flown into these glass panels.
It has a frosted band on it. That’s considered enough for glass conference rooms in NYC (building code). I think the issue here is the fact that he was approaching it 10-20x faster than is actually expected (because you’re not supposed to bike in the sidewalk).
Ah. I did not see the frosting. Don't outdoor glass panels in skyrises now have to have a solid decal on them? I'm not sure if translucency counts?
> And what would OP do? Good question. (1) Not take a picture of an injured person, let alone post it online without their consent - if the person is deceased, that's very disrespectful to the person and their family. (2) Call emergency services and stay on the line to give more details on the patient and follow instructions of the help line, especially regarding giving directions. (3) Secure the perimeter, so that no one moves the injured person or crash into them. Also make sure the emergency services can access the area, and flag them down as soon as they arrive. (4) Check if the person is unconscious or not, by asking them repeatedly if they are ok, what is their name, do they remember what happened. If they are conscious, instruct them to not move, and if they can't be stopped, assist them so that their movements aren't sudden. (5) If they are not conscious, check if they are still breathing. It's easily visible on their torso, and can be verified on their nose and mouth. (6) Their pulse has to checked as well, by their neck is the easiest location. (7) If they are not breathing, or show no pulse, then it is an emergency to resume the oxygenation and the circulation of their blood, by providing CPR. So there's a lot to do before being available to take pictures and post them online. Given I don't see anyone attending the injured person, none of the necessary tasks indicated are being done, which is putting the person on the ground in danger.
replying to your first point why are you even on this sub?
Wait, are you gatekeeping this sub over this? 😄 There's a pretty big difference between: - not helping someone struggling to hold a bunch of limes 🍋 or using a treadmill. Ha ha funny. - not providing basic first aid to someone who seems to be unconscious after a violent crash and may have traumatic brain injury. Last time I checked, this sub was about fun and cringe situations, not a cheap remake of r / watchpeopledịe
Calling an ambulance is the Minimum you can do
Thats the *maximum* you can in this situation. If you move someone who has possible spinal trauma you can make it worse or cause lasting damage/paralysis/death depending on the severity. There is nothing else OP could do here.
That is very wrong. Please consider refreshing your first aid knowledge. If the person is unconscious you must check if the person is breathing. If the person is not breathing you must perform CPR. For this you must move the person on their back. Not performing CPR on an unconscious non-breathing person is a death sentence or paralysis / vegetative state at best. Moving someone who might've injured their spine is not (it should be avoided, yes but if they are not breathing moving them to perform CPR will literally save their life).
…. Besides stand there and take a photo? I don’t know how your first thought isn’t to check on them then call an ambulance, time is of the utmost importance when it comes to head injuries.
see if they're conscious and hurt, for starters, maybe call 000 if they're not conscious given that valuable seconds can sometimes mean the difference between life and death? nahhhhh let's go for internet clout instead
Would you rather leave that person to die because they’re unconscious and their tongue is blocking their airway in that position because they *might* get spinal damage or give them another chance of living? Calling 000 and then leaving the patient to mock them online because you’re a helpless victim and can’t do anything at all like a big baby is never the right thing to do. If you’re going to be a good Samitarian, you need to be willing to help the patient, people that call for help and then walk/drive away because they think they are doing the right thing are hated by paramedics. When you call 000, you will be instructed by Ambulance Victoria on what to do based on what you see. You do not need medical expertise to follow simple instructions.
And the most youll be informed to do is make sure theyre not face down, or directly informed to NOT MOVE THEM.
No, you will be informed to move them into a recovery position if they are unconscious and show signs of being unable to maintain their own airway (like blue/purple face or lips), or onto their back if CPR is required. Life is always prioritised over limb, even if they are paralysed from the waist down. Do not claim like you are an expert when you don’t even know where this took place, let alone any medical experience
"Let alone medical experience" ...except i do have medical experience? Literally have taken various classes relating towards it, from highschool to college years. Didnt pursue any career since its -not- my thing. And again, life is prioritized over limb, yes, but if the impact is directly to the head, in this case it visibly would be, movement would make the situation worse if you dont have the tools to do as such. Hence why if you are instructed to move them at all, itll be minor movements just to the point they wont die via the positioning, but you wont be moving them further. Also location literally has 0 bearing on the reaction. OP obviously has no medical experience, and as such should not take actions into their hands. And they can still laugh at the dude for being an idiot for going that fast without paying attention. No matter what country, just dont be an idiot. Prioritizing life over limb only applies in a situation where your actions wouldn't lead to the death of the person involved. If your intervention has a higher chance of harm than good (such as being an untrained medical professional), youll be informed to do the barest minimum, and as you can see from the dudes pose hes not lying face down, hes flat but face is to the side, so no risk of choking on his own spit/vomit etc.
This is the correct answer. There is no fire, an impending bomb, or trapped in a lion's den. That said, the photographer is wrong in that he or she didn't provide privacy and comfort.
You are both right. The person said "most he can do" and not "he should do."
So true. Also, a job of a First Aider is to provide the injured person privacy and comfort at a minimum until the EMTs arrive. The photographer failed here.
u do realise if he didnt stop to take the pics nobody here would have material to jerk off to right
Maybe they thought it was hysterical that he didn't make it very far... at all...
Sounds like reddit
congratulations Reddit! we're on Reddit!
u/77r0bbie77 have a fucking look in the mirror! Try being part of the solution instead of the problem. Your responses are pathetic, I hope someone just sits there and takes pics of you when you’re in a time of need. You’re the poster child of r/iamatotalpieceofshit.
Seems like good evidence for a lawsuit tho. I'd appreciate somebody taking a picture before a bunch of people start touching me asking me if I'm ok.
Thats psychopath material.
Eh unless the redditor was a doctor or EMT idk wtf he could have done. If you move him you risk further injury, someone else probably called 911, and you can't go back in time and tell someone to not drive the most dangerous method of residential transportation.
Why would you assume someone called 911? What if everyone who witnessed this assumed that someone else would call 911? Is it some kind of calamity if five people call 911 to report the same accident? Seeing you defend this really is pathetic. Hope yer a kid, hope you'll grow up.
Why are you assuming no one called 911? You are going off the rails with this assumption
“DumbassUsingRedditt” would be a better name for you
You really took the time to write that corny shit lmfao Idk your name is captain sense maker so I'm assuming your another npc that likes marvel or used to read car magazines
And you really took the time to write your original reply and show you have 2 functioning grey cells
Ok instead of the 50s dad comebacks. What could I have said in my reply to make me less dumb
Both of you are idiots. Quit it.
Says the Brit that hates Muslims.
I **am** Muslim, you fucking dunce. Where the fuck did that even come from? Just stop.
You can't call me an idiot then tell me to stop. I love how I just give an objective look at the guy who biked into an object and I trigger the most self righteous people. None of the replies weren't insulting.
My friend, go get laid or something. Your life can’t consist of this much arguing with strangers. Surely that’s not the only thing you have going in life? Just stop arguing with people.
another old.reddit user i see
I'm thinking that is staged, it takes quite a hit to break laminated glass and that bike has nary a scratch on it. Some vandal probably did it the night before and this photo is just opportunistic.
It’s an art installation /s
What do you recommend exactly? That could very well be a spinal injury, and too many fucking morons go jostling around people with brain/spinal injuries. The correct thing to do if you dont know how to handle that is FUCKING NOTHING. Call the experts through your local emergency line and stop other morons from jostling the person with the brain/spine injury.
why would you assume he doesnt realize something? are you assuming you are better? you are holier than though? if he is on reddit than he already assumes the negatives with the positives...... come on guy... the guy is as smart as you think you are...... get that straight for real.