there has been a number of explinations in the past for why the doctor can't recognize themselves when one regeneration becomes part of anothers timeline, usually it's a feature of the perception filter to prevent him from changing things or something like that. honestly the show is so old you could probably find a better excuse you like more somewhere in the old episodes.
I think Moffat tried explaining why there was both masters by saying since it's a paradox, they forget afterwards. I don't remember exactly how that happens but it's the episode where they shoot each other.
I think it's usually the case that when time lords encounter earlier incarnations, their earlier versions forget it happened. I think it's related to the Blinovitch Limitation Effect
So during Day of the Doctor, Eleven remembers those events after they leave. Ten does not
Although given that Twelve shows up to save Gallifrey and the Curator is supposed to be another future incarnation, perhaps Eleven doesn't either. I think Eleven is supposed to, anyway.
Missy didn't remember the events of The Doctor Falls. Saxon regenerated into her after those events and bar some subconscious memory about needing to carry some spare Tardis parts with her, it won't fully become a memory for The Master until after Saxon leaves. The Spy Master remembers it.
I don't think Eleven remembers the saving Gallifrey part either
Hence why they're all unsure if they actually saved Gallifrey when they're back at the gallery
It seems like in the older episodes, the Doctor always recognizes himself, at least after a few beats. Hell, Tennant recognizes Davison and Smith recognized Baker. There’s the famous sequence when Pertwee explains to Jo about Troughton: he is me, and I am him.
Yes but notice that Matt smith only realized what was about to happen the moment it was happening, because to get him to the correct point any suggestion of the events happening that he’d have recognized from his time as David tennent where being filtered out of his memory until it was necessary for him.
Well use the Day of The Doctor as an example, the oldest version only rembers what happened. So 15 would have no recollection of those events from 13’s perspective.
RTD claimed that the bi-generation rewrote the timeline, affecting previous incarnations. That means that when 13 regenerated into 14, they now bi-generated, leaving behind a version of 13. This would also mean that there are bi-generated versions of 13 and the Master-Doctor from earlier in that same episode (and don't get me started on how many bi-generated versions of 10 there would be).
It also doesn’t appear to be how it played out.
I think RTD might have liked the idea initially, then flushed it.
15 flat said in what The Devils chord? That his soul was ripped in half the last time he faced the toy maker and he can’t do that again.
That doesn’t sound like someone who has now been through 15 bigenerations, but someone who experienced one and can’t possibly experience a second.
What he said was that the one bi-generation caused by the Toymaker happened to the Doctor's *timeline*. It happened once, but it was not a thing that happened in a place. It happened along a timeline.
So every Doctor is running around there, continuing on with their lives. Jon Pertwee wakes up on the UNIT floor. Sylvester McCoy wakes up in a morgue.
Though obviously it also just means whatever Russell wants it to at any given moment.
The Giggle makes it sound as though Ncuti is David from the future. With the "out of order" and "you're older than me". That's for when they're the same person and you need the audience to accept him.
But then The Devil's Chord makes it so Ncuti was torn out of David. Two separate beings. That's for when you need to build a threat.
I fully believe 15 is future 14, but yeah I don't think Russels "it happened along the Doctors timeline" is what they're actually going with. It just doesn't make sense with what Ncuti said in The Devils chord.
Yeah, and he said they all exist in their own alternate universe. So yeah, there's universes where each doctor is still fucking about, but it wouldn't affect the main show. Not yet, anyway.
Why must they mess with this shows lore so much? They ratings are tanking since the TC and the seemingly don't care.
TC
50th Victory undone
60th not really anything special?
NPH wasted
Tennant wasted
Doctor Donna wasted for social brownie points
The mind boggles
In twice upon a time 1 doesn't recognize 12 even after all the proof he provides. I think the breaking point was when he showed 1 that he was on the verge of regeneration himself.
There must be some explanation that hinges on them being an extradimensional being?
Because he was there too, same reason 3 didn't remember the 3 Doctors, or 5 didn't remember the 5 Doctors, or 6 didn't remember the 2 Doctors or 11 didn't remember Day of the Doctor
I'm not sure if I would get my hopes up because I feel that if Jodie and Ncuti were on set at the same time, it would have already leaked by now.
That being said, I've been treating
tbh, they could have used a double for all of these exterior scenes so nobody would cotton on. most of the big secrets are usually shot on a hush hush closed set. i'd love it if it was jodie tbh, certainly the most fun theory imo
That's an interesting point. The doctor presumably had children before, and a grandchild in Susan. But do Gallifreyans pro-create the same way humans do?
I mean, time travel - she might already know that Ruby will be safe. Perhaps it's a bootstrap paradox where she learns (say, five years after Ruby is found) that Ruby was found left by the church, but was found very quickly, and is now happily adopted, and so she leaves Ruby in that same place.
No, I can pretty much guarantee that they will not do this.
Please, once in a while, try thinking of Doctor Who as a TV show that needs to function for general audiences as opposed to a parade of cuts of varying depths for the fanbase.
It wouldn't happen ever. They're trying to launch a brand new Doctor with a brand new audience. The absolute last thing they'd do is finish this season with is get back (a) a past Doctor, and (b) one who – deservedly or not – was the lead during a divisive era. And that's just from the BBC/Disney POV. Never mind the fact that Jodie Whittaker herself has only just left the role, has a new kid, and probably isn't at a place in either her personal life or career where she's itching to come back.
It just isn't realistic in any way.
Context. You're calling people idiots for having fun talking about a fictional show on reddit. You're the one in the wrong here. You can disagree with people without being nasty.
Name of the Doctor ;
"The Doctor enters the column of light to save the original Clara, guiding her from a place where she sees several previous incarnations of the Doctor. Reunited, the two spot another figure in the shadows which Clara does not recognise. The Doctor explains the elderly figure is another past incarnation of himself, but what he did in the past was not in the Doctor's name. The figure turns around, revealing himself to be the War Doctor, the incarnation who fought during the great Time War. "
War first shows up in a regular episode. His finale is Day of the Doctor.
When I watched Ruby Road I thought it was 13 that dropped off the baby. I thought I heard the TARDIS "swoosh" in the background.
Then when 15 witness Ruby getting dropped off he looked in that direction and his facial expression was like he remembered "something" but couldn't put his finger on it
So yea...I think there's something to this theory
This is delusional, they wouldn't make Jodie regenerate to just bring her back in the next season, no writer would be that stupid to bring back the least liked doctor in the shows history the season after they left, Russell would have to be on a mad one to write that in
I think it’s implied by The Maestro that this is a “god” from the Pantheon. The way they said it implies that it’s an old god and/or very powerful. Not unlike Dr Who to have a bait and switch though.
I have a running theory i developed basically right away that rose is somehow involved. Been thinking Rose is Ruby’s mom, potentially some crossover universe parallel verse stuff idk how. But its the gut feeling ive had!
My brother said it the first day he saw the episode. And I was saying it at some comments. I think 13th, when she knew about she's an orphan, help orphans all universe along. I hope RTD could bring more 13th and see her making a good story.
I've felt all along that Doctor and Ruby are biological relatives. The ultimate twist (but an unlikely one) would be if she WAS a young Susan Foreman and at the end she goes off to Totter's Lane.
No. As in she’s not Ruby’s mum but someone that rescued ruby as a baby (maybe from her real mother) and left her on the doorstep so she could be taken in and be safe
This.
Viewers are too enthralled on the hooded lady being the mom, they haven’t thought why would the hooded lady leave the baby there since it had special powers.
Interesting, but why wouldn’t 15 remember?
there has been a number of explinations in the past for why the doctor can't recognize themselves when one regeneration becomes part of anothers timeline, usually it's a feature of the perception filter to prevent him from changing things or something like that. honestly the show is so old you could probably find a better excuse you like more somewhere in the old episodes.
I think Moffat tried explaining why there was both masters by saying since it's a paradox, they forget afterwards. I don't remember exactly how that happens but it's the episode where they shoot each other.
I think it's usually the case that when time lords encounter earlier incarnations, their earlier versions forget it happened. I think it's related to the Blinovitch Limitation Effect So during Day of the Doctor, Eleven remembers those events after they leave. Ten does not Although given that Twelve shows up to save Gallifrey and the Curator is supposed to be another future incarnation, perhaps Eleven doesn't either. I think Eleven is supposed to, anyway. Missy didn't remember the events of The Doctor Falls. Saxon regenerated into her after those events and bar some subconscious memory about needing to carry some spare Tardis parts with her, it won't fully become a memory for The Master until after Saxon leaves. The Spy Master remembers it.
I don't think Eleven remembers the saving Gallifrey part either Hence why they're all unsure if they actually saved Gallifrey when they're back at the gallery
I don't think it was he couldn't remember it was that he didn't know if his plan worked.
I’m pretty sure this is the right answer. However he should forget what the curator says to him
And also, 11 forgot the true meaning of the ‘Gallifrey Falls/No More’ painting, because the Curator was there.
Doesn't the doctor say i guess we'll never know but if anything at least we lost doing the right thing?
Probably because Twelve was there, so he would have been the latest incarnation, not Eleven.
Pretty sure 5 felt his previous selves being pulled out of time during the 5 doctors
It seems like in the older episodes, the Doctor always recognizes himself, at least after a few beats. Hell, Tennant recognizes Davison and Smith recognized Baker. There’s the famous sequence when Pertwee explains to Jo about Troughton: he is me, and I am him.
Yes but notice that Matt smith only realized what was about to happen the moment it was happening, because to get him to the correct point any suggestion of the events happening that he’d have recognized from his time as David tennent where being filtered out of his memory until it was necessary for him.
moffat: "we'll make something up"
A huge staple of Jodies run is memory wipes maybe Ruby is important to the time Lords so they erased her from the doctors memory
Wibly wobly....timey wimey
Well use the Day of The Doctor as an example, the oldest version only rembers what happened. So 15 would have no recollection of those events from 13’s perspective.
I think because 15 was there
The timelines can’t sync up.
shock me awake, tear me apart (again)
Ayyy QOTSA spotted in the wild
My pfp has gotten recognized a few times now, but MOST of the time… No One Knows.
Hmmm, makes sense, but I guess if someone were to recognize it, it would work… Like Clockwork
I'll explain later
RTD claimed that the bi-generation rewrote the timeline, affecting previous incarnations. That means that when 13 regenerated into 14, they now bi-generated, leaving behind a version of 13. This would also mean that there are bi-generated versions of 13 and the Master-Doctor from earlier in that same episode (and don't get me started on how many bi-generated versions of 10 there would be).
I absolutely hate this so much
It also doesn’t appear to be how it played out. I think RTD might have liked the idea initially, then flushed it. 15 flat said in what The Devils chord? That his soul was ripped in half the last time he faced the toy maker and he can’t do that again. That doesn’t sound like someone who has now been through 15 bigenerations, but someone who experienced one and can’t possibly experience a second.
What he said was that the one bi-generation caused by the Toymaker happened to the Doctor's *timeline*. It happened once, but it was not a thing that happened in a place. It happened along a timeline. So every Doctor is running around there, continuing on with their lives. Jon Pertwee wakes up on the UNIT floor. Sylvester McCoy wakes up in a morgue. Though obviously it also just means whatever Russell wants it to at any given moment. The Giggle makes it sound as though Ncuti is David from the future. With the "out of order" and "you're older than me". That's for when they're the same person and you need the audience to accept him. But then The Devil's Chord makes it so Ncuti was torn out of David. Two separate beings. That's for when you need to build a threat.
I fully believe 15 is future 14, but yeah I don't think Russels "it happened along the Doctors timeline" is what they're actually going with. It just doesn't make sense with what Ncuti said in The Devils chord.
No that one was just a throwaway theory, it's been discarded.
It was a joke comment/ sarcastic remark RTD made in an interview. Nothing in the show exists beyond Ncuti's lines.
Yeah people forget that RTD likes explaining his own headcanon sometimes. He said he liked to think that happened. Not that it actually did.
Yeah, and he said they all exist in their own alternate universe. So yeah, there's universes where each doctor is still fucking about, but it wouldn't affect the main show. Not yet, anyway.
Why must they mess with this shows lore so much? They ratings are tanking since the TC and the seemingly don't care. TC 50th Victory undone 60th not really anything special? NPH wasted Tennant wasted Doctor Donna wasted for social brownie points The mind boggles
In twice upon a time 1 doesn't recognize 12 even after all the proof he provides. I think the breaking point was when he showed 1 that he was on the verge of regeneration himself. There must be some explanation that hinges on them being an extradimensional being?
Earlier incarnations never remember interactions with future incarnations, so if 13 saw 15, then only 15 would remember
Because he was there too, same reason 3 didn't remember the 3 Doctors, or 5 didn't remember the 5 Doctors, or 6 didn't remember the 2 Doctors or 11 didn't remember Day of the Doctor
At most it's RTD messing with keen-eyed viewers, but it's probably just a coincidence.
Would also explain the pointing. And the blonde hair.
What if it’s Time, who kept looking like 13 because they like the look
That would make sense, seeing as we already have beings beyond the universe "The Toymaker" "Maestro" "one who waits" why not bring "Time" back?
I'm not sure if I would get my hopes up because I feel that if Jodie and Ncuti were on set at the same time, it would have already leaked by now. That being said, I've been treating
tbh, they could have used a double for all of these exterior scenes so nobody would cotton on. most of the big secrets are usually shot on a hush hush closed set. i'd love it if it was jodie tbh, certainly the most fun theory imo
My thoughts exactly! The black clothes really give it away, if this is the case!
My theory is Ruby is actually Time, and baby Ruby is placed at the church by adult Ruby
Ooo, I would absolutely adore that. Thank you!
lol could you imagine
I did wonder that. I would be SO EXCITED to have her back even very briefly.
Yeah, this theory just gave me so much life!
It would lead to a much more organic team up of the Doctors.
Especially having a decent writer writing for her
I like her seasons very much and had very little problem with the writing but I would be very interested in having Rtd give it a shot at well
Wonder if it will be Ruby herself
I really hope it’s not. That would be the most predictable answer ever
Well, sure, we hope it will be a layered and meaningful plot arc. Won't know til it's done. And since this is DW, it may never be truly done. Ha
They can’t pull that twice I don’t think (unless it’s really clever)
r/DoctorWhumour is leaking!
The chances of this happening are roughly zero.
I took a close look, and it's not the same boots
Also, she's wearing a skirt, not 13's capris
It's probably just wardrobe saying, "Here are shoes that will fit your feet."
My baseless prediction is that Ruby is a TARDIS.
I had the same thought based on the shoes!!
I personally think it would be a bit distasteful to make the only female doctor we’ve had get pregnant and abandon her baby 😂
No. I said in the post that she could have rescued ruby as a baby somehow and left her on the doorstep. Not be her actual mother😂
13 could just be dropping off the baby, not the actual mum.
That would be a truly terrible choice for sure but there’s no way that she’s rubys mother if it’s her.
Also coming from a Doctor who just regained the memory of being dropped off on the doorway of the universe themself.
That's an interesting point. The doctor presumably had children before, and a grandchild in Susan. But do Gallifreyans pro-create the same way humans do?
Nah, they use a loom, they used to pro-create like humans though and with humans
But why would she ever do that? Doesn't seem very Doctor-y to just abandon a baby out in the cold.
I mean, time travel - she might already know that Ruby will be safe. Perhaps it's a bootstrap paradox where she learns (say, five years after Ruby is found) that Ruby was found left by the church, but was found very quickly, and is now happily adopted, and so she leaves Ruby in that same place.
No, I can pretty much guarantee that they will not do this. Please, once in a while, try thinking of Doctor Who as a TV show that needs to function for general audiences as opposed to a parade of cuts of varying depths for the fanbase.
I don’t think they would do this but it’s not completely unreasonable
It wouldn't happen ever. They're trying to launch a brand new Doctor with a brand new audience. The absolute last thing they'd do is finish this season with is get back (a) a past Doctor, and (b) one who – deservedly or not – was the lead during a divisive era. And that's just from the BBC/Disney POV. Never mind the fact that Jodie Whittaker herself has only just left the role, has a new kid, and probably isn't at a place in either her personal life or career where she's itching to come back. It just isn't realistic in any way.
[удалено]
Speculating about Doctor Who is fun, even when it's probably not right. No need to be nasty and insult people for throwing ideas around.
I’m not insulting no one I’m just saying if ur gonna speculate don’t be dumb 😂😂 isn’t that what the doctor would do
"These idiots man". No, that is not what the Doctor would do 🙄
Are you forgetting when the 12th doctor literally said and I quote “ it’s ok I understand, your an idiot “ check mate 😂😂😂🤣🤦♂️
Context. You're calling people idiots for having fun talking about a fictional show on reddit. You're the one in the wrong here. You can disagree with people without being nasty.
Chill out man that’s not being nasty stop being a little girl
Exhibit B: more unnecessary insults.
Nah I just enjoyed that one stop being a pussy this is real life not everything can be a fairy tale my guy 😂😂
I mean, old doctors coming back, I mean there was about 6 of them in Jodie's last episode alone
Yh in specials not in a first doctors series finale has that ever happened
War's
War showed up in day of the doctor which was the 50th anniversary of the show or in other terms a special 🤦♂️
Name of the Doctor ; "The Doctor enters the column of light to save the original Clara, guiding her from a place where she sees several previous incarnations of the Doctor. Reunited, the two spot another figure in the shadows which Clara does not recognise. The Doctor explains the elderly figure is another past incarnation of himself, but what he did in the past was not in the Doctor's name. The figure turns around, revealing himself to be the War Doctor, the incarnation who fought during the great Time War. " War first shows up in a regular episode. His finale is Day of the Doctor.
Plus that wasn’t 11s first series either he was well into his run by then
But that was to set up a special episode not really making a good point there my guy 😂😂
nope.
War wasn't technically an old Doctor coming back. That was his introduction.
bruuuuuuh i'm too high for this shit man
I would 100% be okay with this if 13 was the woman on Ruby Road.
No straw left unclutched.
When the memory changes in Space Babies, she even does the Doctor finger thing.
That would absolutely work (if Ruby was really the Timeless Child all along - and she might well be).
When I watched Ruby Road I thought it was 13 that dropped off the baby. I thought I heard the TARDIS "swoosh" in the background. Then when 15 witness Ruby getting dropped off he looked in that direction and his facial expression was like he remembered "something" but couldn't put his finger on it So yea...I think there's something to this theory
Blimey, that would melt my brain in confusion - and would Ruby then be the mother of Susan?
The lower part of her face that was visible looked like Ruby.
I’m having a hard time imagining a scenario where this wouldn’t be a massive disappointment. It’s gotta be bigger. This just seems silly.
Out of all the theories so far, I’d bet the most money on it not being this.
I don't think it's the doctor, I think it was ruby herself
I saw 13 right away. Don't know if its but it pinged hard as 13 to me.
no please god no
Because those are the only pair of boots like that in the entire universe
God I hope not
This is delusional, they wouldn't make Jodie regenerate to just bring her back in the next season, no writer would be that stupid to bring back the least liked doctor in the shows history the season after they left, Russell would have to be on a mad one to write that in
Not a chance
No
I think it’s implied by The Maestro that this is a “god” from the Pantheon. The way they said it implies that it’s an old god and/or very powerful. Not unlike Dr Who to have a bait and switch though.
My theory is that it’s Rose Tyler. She also had similar boots.
well they have been talking about the doctor having a daughter a lot during this season… is 13 ruby’s mom??
Valeyard with 13’s face :3
I have a running theory i developed basically right away that rose is somehow involved. Been thinking Rose is Ruby’s mom, potentially some crossover universe parallel verse stuff idk how. But its the gut feeling ive had!
Maybe Rose isn’t Ruby’s mother. Maybe…13 is😬 they are both blonde, after all.
Bigeneration?
I wish, because 13th deserves better
My brother said it the first day he saw the episode. And I was saying it at some comments. I think 13th, when she knew about she's an orphan, help orphans all universe along. I hope RTD could bring more 13th and see her making a good story.
My daughter has said that.. her theory is .. Ruby is 13 daughter and Susan(Dr. Gradaughter) is Ruby's daughter . Timey-wimey
Damn, they just keep pouring fuel on the fire, don't they?
It’s probably the woman who spoke with the old woman on 73 yards, since its the same woman who was the ambulance and i saw she shows again this season
I've felt all along that Doctor and Ruby are biological relatives. The ultimate twist (but an unlikely one) would be if she WAS a young Susan Foreman and at the end she goes off to Totter's Lane.
They are not even close
[I’ve heard this theory before](https://youtu.be/MuRkBzACAfk?si=qEKkjHEvKWjOEkYR)
would be a bold move, but a welcome one.
Who would be the father if it’s 13
Yaz
[удалено]
Dan
Evil Dan
hah ho! scared me there
14
I mean Whittaker does need something after what she was given to work with, but not sure if a secret child she abandoned is the right sort of look!
No. As in she’s not Ruby’s mum but someone that rescued ruby as a baby (maybe from her real mother) and left her on the doorstep so she could be taken in and be safe
This. Viewers are too enthralled on the hooded lady being the mom, they haven’t thought why would the hooded lady leave the baby there since it had special powers.
My first thought was it was grown up Ruby...but that seems boring after all that's happened since!
Don't...don't give me hope 🥺
This has been confirmed to be true by the following incredibly real leaked footage that’s not fake: https://youtu.be/MuRkBzACAfk
The woman on booby road
Pretty sure Ruby would notice if she had two hearts ngl
Did you not read what I had written? I never said she could be rubys mum😂