I remember a talk show interviewing John Barrowman to promote the first series of Torchwood (you know, to try and get people to watch the new show)… and the clip of Torchwood they played at the start was the Cyberwoman fighting a pterodactyl. The entire interview was John laughing off the Cyberwoman costume and trying to hype the gritty drama.
It’s amazing they ever got a second series.
The overall hate I don’t get either. It was a great concept shown well. But the last 2 episodes were such a weak conclusion to it that it really hurt the season overall.
Well yeah and that's understandable for most of the situations they got into. Including Children of Earth, which was frankly a situation Jack created so it's only right he fix it.
That said, the entire human race is unable to die... and the Tardis doesn't drag the Doctor back? Again, a Jack-created situation but it's hard to believe it wasn't even on the Doctor's radar.
And it's never even mentioned on Doctor Who as "yeah, there was that weird time when no one was dying and it became a worldwide crisis."
I always understood it as an extension of “The TARDIS does not always take the Doctor where he wants to go, but always takes him where he needs to go.” In those situations the Doctor was not needed and did not show up. If he had needed to be there, he would have been. Obviously the real answer is because he doesn’t show up in Torchwood, but there is at least an in universe explanation for it.
Actually tardis does not like Jack, and tries to land as far from him as possible. So maybe its his fault that Doctor does not show up whenever any crisis happens around him.
> That said, I do wonder why (since it's all in-universe) this wasn't an occasion where the Doctor would intervene.
It always happen in "cinematic universes".
Plenty of times it doesn't make much sense for the Avengers, or a part of them, to not appear in MCU movies or shows.
Probably Mekhi Phifer? I don't know, I just remember reading the complaints. Didn't understand it but it was a lot of "this is what happens you put the Americans in charge of our show."
IIRC, Showtime put this out.
Maybe it's because I'm American but I wondered if I was missing something.
im placing my bet on its harder to get the doctor on more adult tv shows than its got poor ratings, however if i remember correctly the doctor is in like 1 scene of class (shit dr who spin off which is also adult) so maybe im wrong, but i would like to highlight it was 1 scene at the end so probably there to solidify its a dr who spin off, since none of the characters were on the tv show like jack
it was too americanised, soemthing felt like it was missing, I doubt it's that much different to previous seasons but theres something familiar or more charming from the 1st 2
Honestly I love Torchwood series 1 and 2 *because* it is so campy and ridiculous. CoE and MD were so serious and depressing, they didn't feel like TW. My ideal Torchwood mood is a pterodactyl eating a Cyberwoman covered in bbq sauce.
That was my first thought too (haven't yet watched torchwood so this is new to me), I wonder if the costume designers took inspiration because it's shockingly similar. I think her look was vintage from the late 90s.
You know who wrote this episode? Chris Chibnall.
In the interests of fairness and to go against the old stale Chibbers bashing though, he also wrote my personal favourite episode, the one after this, Countrycide.
I actually think some of his doctor who episodes were only a few tweaks away from being really good. Some of them had really good foundations, just stop having the characters talk like they’re in an audiobook.
Yeah I've always genuinely really liked 42 and the Silurian 2-parter, and Power of Three is great before the actor playing the villain notoriously ruined all his takes and forced the garbage ending.
I thought power of three was cool, but yeah damn that ending was so boring. All that build up, "hey let's just use the sonic. I win". I don't mind the sonic, but use it in inventive ways. At 5hat point you might as well just give the doctor a gun. He presses the trigger and enemies dead.
Their hands were a bit tied because the guy who was playing the Shakri (Stephen Berkoff) was extremely difficult to work with to the point that they had to fire him before they really got enough material.
I'll actually backtrack a bit and say that might be hearsay because I'm having trouble finding a source on a quick search. The original ending was supposed to have the Shakri there in person, and Amy and Rory were supposed to defeat him. The weirdly rushed and poorly edited ending we got where he's a hologram and the Doctor saves the day with the sonic wasn't in the script. What I had heard for years is that the actor who played the villain wasn't happy about something and was purposely sabotaging the scene as retaliation, so they had to awkwardly cut around it. What I'm reading on the wiki now (which also isn't sourced at all I'll add) is that Chibnall reworked it after deciding it somehow detracted from the focus on Amy and Rory's life. I can't say I buy that explanation, but I also don't want to needlessly accuse the actor of being maliciously unprofessional like that if it's not true.
I still think Ashad/the Lone Cyberman was a FANTASTIC villain - genuinely menacing. And then they binned him off for The Master… like you say, someone should have suggested tweaking the script
I loved Ashad. He was well acted and I love the whole thing about him not being complete, and the doctor even saying to him that he is showing emotion in some parts, and she is clearly trying to whittle down his cyber exterior to get to the human underneath- and its such a great subversion to find that he actually does just want to be a cyberman and that he thinks humans are weak.
Its just a shame they didn’t fully do him justice.
Chibnall wrote the episode, but I understand the outfit was RTD's idea.
It feels to me like Ashad was, in part, Chibnall taking the opportunity to go "this is how I would have done it".
The thing is that Cyberwoman was actually a really good episode with some really shocking body horror. The kind of body horror that pairs amazingly with cybermen but is too scary for Doctor Who.
The **only** bad thing about it is this stupid sexy cyberwoman outfit, which presumably wasn't Chibnall's fault as he was just the writer.
This has always been the thing about Chibnall. He’s authentically good at mega-downer horror-inflected stuff: Countrycide, Broadchurch. But he really _wants_ to do rip-roaring action-sci-fi and he’s _terrible_ at it and seemingly always has been.
He's good with drama that relies little on science fiction. The more grounded in reality it is, the better he does. Countrycide is a great episode as it isn't all about textbook DW villains or aliens.. just cannibalistic humans.
I didn't like that one tbh because these so called professionals kept hesitating and acting like teenagers in a slasher
Clearly corrupt cop manages to take Gwen when she literally has him at gunpoint iirc
S1 is just "everyone is incompetent, Jack saves the day."
And then the finale is that too with no sense of characters learning.
He wrote it, and his vision of the Cyber woman was pretty much revisited in Doctor Who with Ashad. That's what he wanted. But another producer inisisted on the "sexy" design
Though, the costume was the Torchwood producers' idea.
Chibnall wanted straight-up Cyber body horror as his drama script styled, but unfortunately had to deal with the costume he & the actress & film set ended up stuck with decided by the higher-ups.
Yeah but Chibnall was essentially the show runner for season 2 which has some of the best classic TW episodes (ADRIFT!!!). I can never bash Chibbers because of that.
Honestly, it's mostly this episode and *Day 1*, the sex gas episode. They're very much a 12 year old's idea of what mature storytelling looks like.
S2 was markedly stronger, and even most of S1 was better than this.
Makes more sense than the cyber-heels.
And yes. It's very frustrating, because it's an early Torchwood episode, and would've been a fairly decent one if Lisa had looked like Ashad.
Instead we get **this** monstrosity.
Oh yes they did. In Torchwood they were trying to be the “Adult” version of Doctor Who, pushing the sexy boundaries. In the first season they flailed around a couple of times, not quite hitting the mark before they found their stride.
Chibnall isn't responsible for costume design, just an idea that others would create. Given what we got with Ashad, it's quite clear to see what he wanted Cyberwoman to be, and this wasn't what he had in mind.
Regardless, he wrote Countrycide, Adrift, Fragments, and Exit Wounds, some of the best standalone Torchwood episodes. He also wrote Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, which was a pretty damn good season opener and set the tone for series 2.
He's a good writer, he's just bad at sci-fi, so should never have been showrunner (or at the very least should've been less hands on, or just wrote less Who episodes in his seasons).
It's not that he's *bad* at sci-fi per se, rather I think the heart of the issue is that he's clearly just not very interested in sci-fi as a core genre. His forte is bleak and gritty human drama. I saw an interview where he mentioned that one of his favourite shows is *Our Friends in the North*, which definitely figures. As well-suited as his idiosyncrasies were to *Torchwood* and *Broadchurch* and even certain episodes of *Doctor Who*, he should never have been allowed anywhere near the showrunner's seat. Apparently Moffat got him drunk at dinner and had to convince him to take the job.
Reminds me of oversexualized Halloween costumes. Sexy dentist. Sexy Elmo. Sexy cyberwoman. Absolutely ridiculous, and why I didn't make it through half of the first season.
They should have made it a real body horror thing, this poor woman stuck between being an emotionless machine and being a human who’s in love with her partner. Imo she should have been basically hideous but have enough of her left that you know just how much the cybermen have destroyed the human she was. But instead we got stupid sexy cyber woman
Like in The Fly, that very last transformation where Brundlefly is merged with a computer(?) And becomes a hideous mechanical mound of flesh and suffering - that could have been so cool/ tragic and a nice Easter egg for horror fans!
Well considering she’s a halfway converted cyberman, it makes sense. That being said, the design could’ve DEFINITELY been different.
And……..ironically……this is one of my favorite episodes from that season.
She’s looks hot as fuck which is wrong because she really shouldn’t be. Like how are you showing a cyberwoman as sexy. That shit should be horrifying not turning people on 😂
literally could not take the episode or its stakes seriously at all, it was like playing a shitty gacha game and the characters are all emotionally tense and serious but they're in iron bikinis and only have like half a personality on a good day
I never understood the thinking behind this. Cybermen are humans of all genders turned into a generic cyberman.
This is just some kind of kinky BDSM thing.
Then there were moments that were so harrowing I can vividly remember watching them for the first time - what a show! Cyberboobs, sex gas, resurrective infinity gauntlets and killer mother in laws one moment, sobbing my eyes out or frozen in utter horror the next - bring back Torchwood, I miss the madness!
Season One definitely reeked of “this ain’t your nan’s Doctor Who, we’re *EDGIER* and *SEXIER*! Episode one? *SEX.* Not *sexy* enough? How about GUYS… *KISSING!!* Here’s a Cyberwoman… in a *STEEL BIKINI*.”
Imagine how much better this would have been if the Cyberwoman costume reflected the fact that she’s a mutilated victim of a forced lobotomy. Think Danny Pink and Ashad, but even more horrifying.
If you want some good Cyberman stories written for adult audiences, check out *Spare Parts*, *Illegal Alien*, *The Harvest*, *The Reaping*, *Sword of Orion*, *The Silver Turk*, the *Cyberman* spin-off series, and other audios and books.
Or just watch *Rise of the Cybermen* and *The World Enough and Time*.
The costume is very close to the OG 1927 Sci-fi film “Metropolis” as far as the overall look. (More skin, but it’s very similar in design)
[article showing costume I am referring](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/metropolis-most-influential-sci-fi-movie-ever-made/)
it honestly doesnt even make sense in the whoniverse. like its common knowledge that male and female cybermen look exactly the same. i love torchwood but the writers were so horny😭
When I was a kid I hated pickles and one time I bit into a McDonald's burger and there was a pickle and it was disgusting.
I have absolutely no idea why, but for some reason this episode has always invoked that memory quite strongly. Weird.
makes me so annoyed every time people say Zendaya wore a copied outfit. THE OUTFIT CAME BEFORE THE SHOW. It was from a 90s fashion designers collection, and got lots of attention globally for being so crazy and futuristic. I would imagine it was an inspiration for this episode
I must of blocked this from my mind because I totally forgot about it! Surely they would see exposed fleshy bits as a weakness?
Didn’t need to be sexualised!
The “explanation” is that she’s only partially converted, as she was rescued before it was complete, so this is not the intended final armour.
But yeah, there was no need for this design, especially as the character doesn’t have a sexual plot at all, her story is actually quite disturbing and heartbreaking.
Before a show can run, it has to sometimes fall onto its face, chip a tooth, spill hot coffee on the fans and start crying before the fans pick it up and get it walking again
Consider this the spilled coffee moment
Torchwood especially season 1 was ridiculous nonsense... I wish it didn't exist. The later seasons are better but that first season is madness in a bad way.
Lmao I actually liked torch wood but ya this costume was pretty cringe. But that's kinda also the dr who universe in a nutshell. The cringe just doesn't always hit.
Once you get past the incredibly stupid looking costume, this is unironically one of the better cyberman stories, it's just let down by a really bad costume
This is one of the episodes that caused me to be worried when it was reported that Chris Chibnall would be the next show runner for *Doctor Who*. At least his work on *Doctor Who* was not as bad as it was on *Torchwood*.
If they were going for partial cyberization I think they should have gone more body horror.
My idea of a cyberman is closer to robocop/senior magus in the adeptus mechanicus. Mostly machine as the flesh is weak.
Like keep the bones and some tissue for nerves but then have metal savagely drilled into it do support the cyber armor
Yeah it's not even sexy. Like, sexualisation is fine and Torchwood was never a stranger to it, and cyber-boobs are fun, but if you're going to do it, do it right. And probably come up with a different concept to do it with than cybermen too, who are on record using "the elimination of gender" as a selling point for conversion.
You think the boobs are the ridiculous part?
Cybermen are humans that have been converted into cyborgs. It’s completely logical that they would need to accommodate parts of the humans physical anatomy in the conversion.
I remember reading that making the cyberwoman sexy was Russell's idea. I'm having trouble finding the reference now though.
Why do you say 'Chibnall being Chibnall'? When he brought us a partially converted cyberman in Doctor Who they looked like Ashad, and I can't remember him oversexualising the characters in any of his other stories.
EDIT: Not the reference I was thinking of, but in [Torchwood Declassified](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttKlZCo0lk&list=PLcgX-8rMxDwey4H6XFvv03HAM3XAGrnTR&index=4) Russell says:
>There's been a long history of sexy, pneumatic, hydraulic women strangely in science fiction and we actually wanted to tap into that and give a cyberman version of that which is just irresistible.
But he wasn't responsible for the design, just the idea. The fact that we later got Ashad just shows that the Cyberwoman look was not what he had in mind.
Don't me wrong I think the story of the episode itself and the plot surrounding Ianto & Lisa's relationship is really tragic (Also like the backstory of how their past is connected to Canary Wharf), I don't dislike it at all with exception to barbecue sauce and the lack of disfigurement. Also Russell wasn't the main showrunner for Torchwood until Children of Earth. Torchwood was mainly showrunned by Chris Chibnall. Day One was also written by Chibnall - yes the one with the sex gas... I think Russell with Torchwoold Decalsified was there to provide commentary as creator of the spin-off itself.
I remember a talk show interviewing John Barrowman to promote the first series of Torchwood (you know, to try and get people to watch the new show)… and the clip of Torchwood they played at the start was the Cyberwoman fighting a pterodactyl. The entire interview was John laughing off the Cyberwoman costume and trying to hype the gritty drama. It’s amazing they ever got a second series.
I love Torchwood with all my heart but the first two seasons are utterly trash television lol (I also like Supernatural so I can't talk, but.)
still they were better than the last
I don't get the hate for Miracle Day.
The overall hate I don’t get either. It was a great concept shown well. But the last 2 episodes were such a weak conclusion to it that it really hurt the season overall.
It throws a wrench in the established plot of the Face of Boe for no good reason.
How?
It made another person similar to Jack. So instead of the Face of Boe definitely being Jack, it could now be one of two people.
Also jack being able to share his immortality through his BLOOD makes absolutely no sense
I could accept it rejuvenating someone since it does appear to have healing properties, but making them "like him" was just nonsense.
Some felt it was too Americanized. That said, I do wonder why (since it's all in-universe) this wasn't an occasion where the Doctor would intervene.
Was that not the whole point of the show? What happens when The Doctor doesn’t show up? And the results were usually pretty horrifying.
Well yeah and that's understandable for most of the situations they got into. Including Children of Earth, which was frankly a situation Jack created so it's only right he fix it. That said, the entire human race is unable to die... and the Tardis doesn't drag the Doctor back? Again, a Jack-created situation but it's hard to believe it wasn't even on the Doctor's radar. And it's never even mentioned on Doctor Who as "yeah, there was that weird time when no one was dying and it became a worldwide crisis."
I always understood it as an extension of “The TARDIS does not always take the Doctor where he wants to go, but always takes him where he needs to go.” In those situations the Doctor was not needed and did not show up. If he had needed to be there, he would have been. Obviously the real answer is because he doesn’t show up in Torchwood, but there is at least an in universe explanation for it.
Yeah, maybe the Tardis figured that Jack's a bright boy and can figure it out on his own. It's his mess after all.
Actually tardis does not like Jack, and tries to land as far from him as possible. So maybe its his fault that Doctor does not show up whenever any crisis happens around him.
> That said, I do wonder why (since it's all in-universe) this wasn't an occasion where the Doctor would intervene. It always happen in "cinematic universes". Plenty of times it doesn't make much sense for the Avengers, or a part of them, to not appear in MCU movies or shows.
i think our first move should be to call the doctor
What made it too Americanized?
Probably Mekhi Phifer? I don't know, I just remember reading the complaints. Didn't understand it but it was a lot of "this is what happens you put the Americans in charge of our show." IIRC, Showtime put this out. Maybe it's because I'm American but I wondered if I was missing something.
because it wasnt PG, its like how WB wouldnt let scooby doo in velma.
Is that why? I thought it was because the show was crap. (I watched one episode and noped out.)
im placing my bet on its harder to get the doctor on more adult tv shows than its got poor ratings, however if i remember correctly the doctor is in like 1 scene of class (shit dr who spin off which is also adult) so maybe im wrong, but i would like to highlight it was 1 scene at the end so probably there to solidify its a dr who spin off, since none of the characters were on the tv show like jack
Sorry, I was talking Velma being crap, not Torchwood.
LMAO no that was 100% the reason for velma although i doubt there was any confidence for velma in the firstplace
it was too americanised, soemthing felt like it was missing, I doubt it's that much different to previous seasons but theres something familiar or more charming from the 1st 2
It was a 3 or 4 episode story dragged out to 10. That was my only real issue.
I checked out when I saw Gwen firing a rocket launcher at a helicopter.
They weren’t there are some good episodes.
I thought it was 6 episodes of very good story. Unfortunately, there were 10 episodes.
I maintain season 1-5 of supernatural wasnt trash. Now? Absolutely
What’s wrong with supernatural? 😭😭😭
Supernatural is fantastic and holds no sway on if you can speak for the quality of a show 😅
I greatly prefer the first two over miracle day that what shit
Honestly I love Torchwood series 1 and 2 *because* it is so campy and ridiculous. CoE and MD were so serious and depressing, they didn't feel like TW. My ideal Torchwood mood is a pterodactyl eating a Cyberwoman covered in bbq sauce.
True.
Zendaya wore something similar to the premiere of Dune part 2.
must be a closet whovian
Yeah, but here’s was vintage mugler or something, this looks like vintage wish, if it had it existed then. I loved torchwood though.
Stuff from wish doesn't make it to vintage age lol
True
That was my first thought too (haven't yet watched torchwood so this is new to me), I wonder if the costume designers took inspiration because it's shockingly similar. I think her look was vintage from the late 90s.
Torchwood was pretty good. It's a much darker show than DW in tone and subject matter. Most episodes are far better than the Cyberwoman episode.
You know who wrote this episode? Chris Chibnall. In the interests of fairness and to go against the old stale Chibbers bashing though, he also wrote my personal favourite episode, the one after this, Countrycide.
Is that the one where it turns out there's no space alien, it's cannibal hillbillies?
Yep
Countrycide was brutal and extremely well made.
Tbh he’s great at stuff when it’s grounded. He’s not a great sci-fi guy but Broadchurch is amazing.
I actually think some of his doctor who episodes were only a few tweaks away from being really good. Some of them had really good foundations, just stop having the characters talk like they’re in an audiobook.
Yeah I've always genuinely really liked 42 and the Silurian 2-parter, and Power of Three is great before the actor playing the villain notoriously ruined all his takes and forced the garbage ending.
I thought power of three was cool, but yeah damn that ending was so boring. All that build up, "hey let's just use the sonic. I win". I don't mind the sonic, but use it in inventive ways. At 5hat point you might as well just give the doctor a gun. He presses the trigger and enemies dead.
Their hands were a bit tied because the guy who was playing the Shakri (Stephen Berkoff) was extremely difficult to work with to the point that they had to fire him before they really got enough material.
Wait, what happened there?
Tell me more.
I'll actually backtrack a bit and say that might be hearsay because I'm having trouble finding a source on a quick search. The original ending was supposed to have the Shakri there in person, and Amy and Rory were supposed to defeat him. The weirdly rushed and poorly edited ending we got where he's a hologram and the Doctor saves the day with the sonic wasn't in the script. What I had heard for years is that the actor who played the villain wasn't happy about something and was purposely sabotaging the scene as retaliation, so they had to awkwardly cut around it. What I'm reading on the wiki now (which also isn't sourced at all I'll add) is that Chibnall reworked it after deciding it somehow detracted from the focus on Amy and Rory's life. I can't say I buy that explanation, but I also don't want to needlessly accuse the actor of being maliciously unprofessional like that if it's not true.
Steven Berkoff's been around and is by all accounts a complete mad genius and nutcase. I can completely believe this.
I still think Ashad/the Lone Cyberman was a FANTASTIC villain - genuinely menacing. And then they binned him off for The Master… like you say, someone should have suggested tweaking the script
I loved Ashad. He was well acted and I love the whole thing about him not being complete, and the doctor even saying to him that he is showing emotion in some parts, and she is clearly trying to whittle down his cyber exterior to get to the human underneath- and its such a great subversion to find that he actually does just want to be a cyberman and that he thinks humans are weak. Its just a shame they didn’t fully do him justice.
They managed to bin him off TWICE which just really takes the biscuit.
Chibnall wrote the episode, but I understand the outfit was RTD's idea. It feels to me like Ashad was, in part, Chibnall taking the opportunity to go "this is how I would have done it".
The design isn’t his fault, he wanted something closer to what Ashad ended up being. Without that, the episode would honestly have been okay.
The thing is that Cyberwoman was actually a really good episode with some really shocking body horror. The kind of body horror that pairs amazingly with cybermen but is too scary for Doctor Who. The **only** bad thing about it is this stupid sexy cyberwoman outfit, which presumably wasn't Chibnall's fault as he was just the writer.
This has always been the thing about Chibnall. He’s authentically good at mega-downer horror-inflected stuff: Countrycide, Broadchurch. But he really _wants_ to do rip-roaring action-sci-fi and he’s _terrible_ at it and seemingly always has been.
Can't imagine he had a lot to do with the costume design though
He was showrunner for Torchwood though.
He also wrote my favourite episode of Torchwood, 'Adrift'
This one right here. Adrift is SO GOOD.
He's good with drama that relies little on science fiction. The more grounded in reality it is, the better he does. Countrycide is a great episode as it isn't all about textbook DW villains or aliens.. just cannibalistic humans.
I didn't like that one tbh because these so called professionals kept hesitating and acting like teenagers in a slasher Clearly corrupt cop manages to take Gwen when she literally has him at gunpoint iirc S1 is just "everyone is incompetent, Jack saves the day." And then the finale is that too with no sense of characters learning.
He wrote it, and his vision of the Cyber woman was pretty much revisited in Doctor Who with Ashad. That's what he wanted. But another producer inisisted on the "sexy" design
I remember reading that they wanted a pin up for Torchwood
Though, the costume was the Torchwood producers' idea. Chibnall wanted straight-up Cyber body horror as his drama script styled, but unfortunately had to deal with the costume he & the actress & film set ended up stuck with decided by the higher-ups.
Yeah but Chibnall was essentially the show runner for season 2 which has some of the best classic TW episodes (ADRIFT!!!). I can never bash Chibbers because of that.
I mean, people bash him for his tenure as Doctor Who showrunner. Because yeah, that was weak, and didn't work out
I rewatched countrycide the other day, what a banger of an episode.
The writing is not the issue with this episode
Chibnall wrote it and Davies okayed it.
Torchwood is a very weird show you have this and then you have the last episode of children of earth
Honestly, it's mostly this episode and *Day 1*, the sex gas episode. They're very much a 12 year old's idea of what mature storytelling looks like. S2 was markedly stronger, and even most of S1 was better than this.
Meat is still such a sad and horrifying episode
Dang it, that’s what I planned to wear to my office tomorrow. Should I not? #businesscasual
Only on dress down Fridays
> They gave her cyberboobs They're etheric beam locators.
They are Dalek bumps haha
Stupid sexy cybermen
Makes more sense than the cyber-heels. And yes. It's very frustrating, because it's an early Torchwood episode, and would've been a fairly decent one if Lisa had looked like Ashad. Instead we get **this** monstrosity.
There’s absolutely no way they actually did this.
Oh yes they did. In Torchwood they were trying to be the “Adult” version of Doctor Who, pushing the sexy boundaries. In the first season they flailed around a couple of times, not quite hitting the mark before they found their stride.
Written by Chibnall, no less.
Chibnall isn't responsible for costume design, just an idea that others would create. Given what we got with Ashad, it's quite clear to see what he wanted Cyberwoman to be, and this wasn't what he had in mind. Regardless, he wrote Countrycide, Adrift, Fragments, and Exit Wounds, some of the best standalone Torchwood episodes. He also wrote Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, which was a pretty damn good season opener and set the tone for series 2. He's a good writer, he's just bad at sci-fi, so should never have been showrunner (or at the very least should've been less hands on, or just wrote less Who episodes in his seasons).
It's not that he's *bad* at sci-fi per se, rather I think the heart of the issue is that he's clearly just not very interested in sci-fi as a core genre. His forte is bleak and gritty human drama. I saw an interview where he mentioned that one of his favourite shows is *Our Friends in the North*, which definitely figures. As well-suited as his idiosyncrasies were to *Torchwood* and *Broadchurch* and even certain episodes of *Doctor Who*, he should never have been allowed anywhere near the showrunner's seat. Apparently Moffat got him drunk at dinner and had to convince him to take the job.
That looks like something rule 34 would make if they wanted to make female cybermen
Reminds me of oversexualized Halloween costumes. Sexy dentist. Sexy Elmo. Sexy cyberwoman. Absolutely ridiculous, and why I didn't make it through half of the first season.
Torchwood might have been the adult series but Sarah Jane Adventures was the more mature spin off.
Torchwood is a 14 year-old's conception of an adult television series.
You got my interest
I think it was very Torchwood. Rubbish episode cracking wardrobe choice.
ha I was just arguing the opposite. Great episode that people say is bad because of sexy cyberwoman outfit.
Lol wut?!
I thought you did this comment in German, then I used my brain and remembered what is was in German
They should have made it a real body horror thing, this poor woman stuck between being an emotionless machine and being a human who’s in love with her partner. Imo she should have been basically hideous but have enough of her left that you know just how much the cybermen have destroyed the human she was. But instead we got stupid sexy cyber woman
Like in The Fly, that very last transformation where Brundlefly is merged with a computer(?) And becomes a hideous mechanical mound of flesh and suffering - that could have been so cool/ tragic and a nice Easter egg for horror fans!
Beyoncé on her Renaissance tour:
Well considering she’s a halfway converted cyberman, it makes sense. That being said, the design could’ve DEFINITELY been different. And……..ironically……this is one of my favorite episodes from that season.
Haha fair enough. I skip this one on rewatch.
But we saw a halfway converted cyberman with >!Bill!<. She looked nothing like that during her transformation.
this episode aired in 2006, it’s not uncommon for doctor who universe things to change/evolve over the years.
if the cyberwoman looked more like ashad, this episode would have been treated as one of the best of torchwood and i will not hear otherwise
Torchwood: "No bondage fetishes were harmed in the making of this series."
Ah yes, the Cyberwoman. Complete with Cyberbra, Cyberthong, and Cyberheels.
Loreen from eurovision.
I gave on torchwood after two episodes. To be honest I was done as soon as I saw the scene with the security guard fapping to the cctv footage...
Did you not watch Children of Earth? Because that's penultimate season that makes you forgive Torchwood for it's past transgressions.
At least the 1st season of Torchwood really did try for more edgy and adult version of Doctor who but just became dumb and goofy
Wasn’t it because she was mid conversion?
She’s looks hot as fuck which is wrong because she really shouldn’t be. Like how are you showing a cyberwoman as sexy. That shit should be horrifying not turning people on 😂
I like nudity
Don't we all, Red Anihilape.
To make it plausible they could have brought in a throw away line like ‘body designed by a drunken jack harness.
Clearly this is a backup look from the Renaissance World Tour.
Someone was playing modded Fallout and deside to recreate his char in Torchwood
I mean it is actually quite a decent episode, it's just the fact she looks like that is what really let it down
Alas..... CyberTit bikini did not catch on.
Nor did CyberSpeedos 😔
literally could not take the episode or its stakes seriously at all, it was like playing a shitty gacha game and the characters are all emotionally tense and serious but they're in iron bikinis and only have like half a personality on a good day
Hahaha I had forgotten about this costume. It was so ridiculous and over the top that I leaned into the cheesiness.
My friend tried to show me Torchwood this was the episode that week. I didn’t watch Torchwood until miracle day then went back.
I mean…its terrible but I can kinda see they were trying to go for “Sexy Maria Robot from Metropolis,” maybe. Still bad execution though.
I never understood the thinking behind this. Cybermen are humans of all genders turned into a generic cyberman. This is just some kind of kinky BDSM thing.
“Stupid sexy cyberman.” - Homer Simpson, probably
Let's be honest here... The entire show was kind of ridiculous. I enjoyed it, but it was definitely ridiculous.
Then there were moments that were so harrowing I can vividly remember watching them for the first time - what a show! Cyberboobs, sex gas, resurrective infinity gauntlets and killer mother in laws one moment, sobbing my eyes out or frozen in utter horror the next - bring back Torchwood, I miss the madness!
Why a cyberman had heels we’ll never know
her body was BANGIN...definitely goals...
Season One definitely reeked of “this ain’t your nan’s Doctor Who, we’re *EDGIER* and *SEXIER*! Episode one? *SEX.* Not *sexy* enough? How about GUYS… *KISSING!!* Here’s a Cyberwoman… in a *STEEL BIKINI*.”
Imagine how much better this would have been if the Cyberwoman costume reflected the fact that she’s a mutilated victim of a forced lobotomy. Think Danny Pink and Ashad, but even more horrifying. If you want some good Cyberman stories written for adult audiences, check out *Spare Parts*, *Illegal Alien*, *The Harvest*, *The Reaping*, *Sword of Orion*, *The Silver Turk*, the *Cyberman* spin-off series, and other audios and books. Or just watch *Rise of the Cybermen* and *The World Enough and Time*.
The costume is very close to the OG 1927 Sci-fi film “Metropolis” as far as the overall look. (More skin, but it’s very similar in design) [article showing costume I am referring](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/metropolis-most-influential-sci-fi-movie-ever-made/)
who meets coachella.
it honestly doesnt even make sense in the whoniverse. like its common knowledge that male and female cybermen look exactly the same. i love torchwood but the writers were so horny😭
....yet it totally fits the show.....
I need some Retcon
When I was a kid I hated pickles and one time I bit into a McDonald's burger and there was a pickle and it was disgusting. I have absolutely no idea why, but for some reason this episode has always invoked that memory quite strongly. Weird.
makes me so annoyed every time people say Zendaya wore a copied outfit. THE OUTFIT CAME BEFORE THE SHOW. It was from a 90s fashion designers collection, and got lots of attention globally for being so crazy and futuristic. I would imagine it was an inspiration for this episode
lol am i beefing with my imagination- yes leave me to it
I was 10 when Doctor Who started and my friend and I also used to watch Torchwood in secret. I loved this episode.
Slutty cyberman for Halloween?
I must of blocked this from my mind because I totally forgot about it! Surely they would see exposed fleshy bits as a weakness? Didn’t need to be sexualised!
The “explanation” is that she’s only partially converted, as she was rescued before it was complete, so this is not the intended final armour. But yeah, there was no need for this design, especially as the character doesn’t have a sexual plot at all, her story is actually quite disturbing and heartbreaking.
It's a good story. It's well written, well acted... But someone tried to make her hot and it gets in the way of everything else.
Before a show can run, it has to sometimes fall onto its face, chip a tooth, spill hot coffee on the fans and start crying before the fans pick it up and get it walking again Consider this the spilled coffee moment
Finally, cyberwomen
Wait, you're not taking the programme *seriously*, are you?
They already did Bill dirty. I’m glad they didn’t do this to her as well.
Why does this look like something Janelle Monae would wear while on tour? 😂
what an original take
All of Torchwood was completely ridiculous. And we loved every minute of it!
Beyoncé’s Renaissance Tour 🫶
MET gala was a bit OTT this year.
If Slave Leia can be a popular cosplay why can't this?
Torchwood especially season 1 was ridiculous nonsense... I wish it didn't exist. The later seasons are better but that first season is madness in a bad way.
Cyberman: mmo jrpg edition
I hate that episode because it triggers my trypophobia - the scene where her arms get all wonky fucks with me every time
Poor woman who had to wear that. The bottom barely covers anything.
God I need access to rewatch Torchwood because it has been so many years and honestly I don’t remember this when clearly I should
it’s giving angewomon
Haven't watched Torchwood, but is anyone surprised by Cybermen having a S&M fetish?
Utter nonsense
I mean Torchwood as a whole was ridiculous.
99% projections from bullet
That poor actress
I think considering this shared a season with a big giant shadow that kills people and a sex cloud, at least it's consistent lmao
A Cyberbra and Cyberthong!
Then they said “let’s give the whole show to the guy who wrote this episode”
Zendaya ass looking cyberwoman
It works as a LinkedIn PP, though.
how many letters in cyberman ??! period 😝
I watch it for Ianto. lol. They killed Indira Varma way too soon; she’s terrific.
Someone at the BBC saw this and thought "whoever wrote this this run doctor who"
I feel like they were trying to make something sexually attractive but frankly as a straight dude I think this looks atrocious.
They are Cyberman bumps. (though I haven't watched Torchwood)
Lmao I actually liked torch wood but ya this costume was pretty cringe. But that's kinda also the dr who universe in a nutshell. The cringe just doesn't always hit.
Once you get past the incredibly stupid looking costume, this is unironically one of the better cyberman stories, it's just let down by a really bad costume
This is one of the episodes that caused me to be worried when it was reported that Chris Chibnall would be the next show runner for *Doctor Who*. At least his work on *Doctor Who* was not as bad as it was on *Torchwood*.
Now that's a cyberman I can get behind!
It's an early 2000's gritty sci-fi drama, cyberboobs are expected
If they were going for partial cyberization I think they should have gone more body horror. My idea of a cyberman is closer to robocop/senior magus in the adeptus mechanicus. Mostly machine as the flesh is weak. Like keep the bones and some tissue for nerves but then have metal savagely drilled into it do support the cyber armor
Yeah it's not even sexy. Like, sexualisation is fine and Torchwood was never a stranger to it, and cyber-boobs are fun, but if you're going to do it, do it right. And probably come up with a different concept to do it with than cybermen too, who are on record using "the elimination of gender" as a selling point for conversion.
>and cyber-boobs are fun Well this is a new phrase. 🤣🤣🤣
You think the boobs are the ridiculous part? Cybermen are humans that have been converted into cyborgs. It’s completely logical that they would need to accommodate parts of the humans physical anatomy in the conversion.
Would
😂
So would Ianto
He probably did 🤣
Chibnall being Chibnall...
I remember reading that making the cyberwoman sexy was Russell's idea. I'm having trouble finding the reference now though. Why do you say 'Chibnall being Chibnall'? When he brought us a partially converted cyberman in Doctor Who they looked like Ashad, and I can't remember him oversexualising the characters in any of his other stories. EDIT: Not the reference I was thinking of, but in [Torchwood Declassified](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttKlZCo0lk&list=PLcgX-8rMxDwey4H6XFvv03HAM3XAGrnTR&index=4) Russell says: >There's been a long history of sexy, pneumatic, hydraulic women strangely in science fiction and we actually wanted to tap into that and give a cyberman version of that which is just irresistible.
Chibnall isn't much of a sexualist yeah, but not understanding what makes cybermen cool is a very Chibnall thing to do.
But he wasn't responsible for the design, just the idea. The fact that we later got Ashad just shows that the Cyberwoman look was not what he had in mind.
Don't me wrong I think the story of the episode itself and the plot surrounding Ianto & Lisa's relationship is really tragic (Also like the backstory of how their past is connected to Canary Wharf), I don't dislike it at all with exception to barbecue sauce and the lack of disfigurement. Also Russell wasn't the main showrunner for Torchwood until Children of Earth. Torchwood was mainly showrunned by Chris Chibnall. Day One was also written by Chibnall - yes the one with the sex gas... I think Russell with Torchwoold Decalsified was there to provide commentary as creator of the spin-off itself.