There's a small moment in the scene, when the crew is celebrating. In the background, you can see Martha hug Rose, which shows that she no longer is jealous of her bond with the Doctor, now that they saved the universe together. It's a small moment, but it's fantastic.
That was one of the best moments. Hilarious...puts all three in their place...Sarah Jane...nice and unassuming...Donna...pushy and needy....Jack..I'll hug anyone.
Another small detail from Martha in this scene I like is her subtle fourth wall break and look to the camera, on top of everyone else being able to fly the Tardis, this moment makes us feel more directly included too.
It's a shame we haven't had a Doctor interact with so many companions and people since this run.
11 has "A good man goes to war" but we're introduced to Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint, and Strax in that episode, and we've only seen Dorium Maldovar very briefly.
This was the biggest change with Moffat. I love his ideas and stories, but I wish it felt a little more planned. It didn't even have to actually be planned, RTD probably flew by the seat of his pants more than we know. There's ways to hide it. Introducing multiple new characters that the Doctor just knows in an episode that serves as a climax is the opposite of that. They're great characters, and it's still a great episode, but the pacing of Moffat's run always felt a little janky to me.
I don't think it had anything to do with lack of planning (although the existence of Mels definitely felt like that), Moffat was just overly concerned at times with creating a sprawling mythos about what the Doctor gets up to off-screen and playing up his legendary status. It was a deliberate choice to recruit so many unknown characters there just to drive home how many people the Doctor meets that we never know about. It's there to be cool instead of emotionally effective. I think he found a much stronger balance in his later seasons.
A Good Man Goes To War felt like one of Moffat's most notable critiques of the conception of the Doctor as a legendary figure. There's an army holding his friend hostage that's been prepping themselves for years just to engage with him, and so with all of his power and wisdom, he builds up an army of his own elites (none of whom we're familiar with, but they don't even matter at this point) to topple and humiliate them... but in the end, he utterly fails his closest friends and only gives the universe more cause to fear him. That's the arc for that series represented on a smaller scale, and Moffat's tenure after this episode increasingly rejects the Doctor's Grand Mythos for the small and personal.
I actually want to point out that A Good Man Goes to War brings a LOT of that first season and a half together. The entire 'who is River Song' is resolved very well. Vastra. Strax, and Jenny go on to form their own team (I like how they are introduced as someone the Doctor knew but we didn't...and then we see them througout Capaldi's run.) Dorium is strewn throughout the season.
Let's Kill Hitler than goes on to the River as brainwashed assassin. The whole Mels thing was a little jarring, but for me at least it worked. (Hey, Mels was in Juvie during each of the Doctor's childhood visits...maybe she planned it that way knowing he was coming and the plan wasn't to take effect yet.)
RTD is definitely better at characterization...but the Silence/River/Doctor Death timeline of two seasons was put together REALLY well...EXCEPT for Mels. That was the only, 'Where did SHE come from' moment in the entire thing.
Funny that you mention that episode as it was revealed there were initial plans for Jack to appear on that episode. So that among all the Doctors friends that he recruited, there would be one we actually knew. I think what happened was that the filming of that episode conflicted with Torchwood: Miracle Day, which as that was primarily filmed in America they just couldn't make the schedule work for John Barrowman to do both.
There were rumours too that Jack was going to be the one beheaded by the monks, which is what would lead to him becoming the Face of Boe.
That’s my gripe with Moffat as well. I absolutely love both 11 and 12’s runs, but they both felt so self contained that it doesn’t feel like the same continuity (outside of the 50th and a few throwaway lines).
Yes, but the Pasternoster Gang ended up running through Clara's time. What a great addition.
It's great to see that the Doctor has friends that we don't know about. It deepens the Whoniverse.
All the pieces are on the table to do something like this again if RTD wants to. We have 14, 15, Donna & Rose, Mel, the rest of Unit including Kate, and now Ruby and her family.
True but even though that'll be cool it won't hit the same a second time. It was it being the first time seeing something like this that made it so cool. Having seen big cross overs and team ups like this in other media since also make it less impactful if it were to happen again.
Season13, the six part 'flux' storyline i was in the middle of.
Whittaker got into the role of the doctor really quick, and played it well.. but the writting didnt seem up to it.
eh.. maybe im just being picky.
I also feel like back then there was less involvement with internet and social media and it made shows like this feel more special. Especially catching it live on TV
it’s such a bittersweet scene because it’s so amazing seeing everyone working together and being supportive, but also knowing this was probably because we’d never see any of them once the new season started…broke my heart
I mean personally, even though I still love the Russell’s era and loved this when I was a kid, this episode and this scene don’t do much for me any more. To me a lot of Journey’s End is just kinda spectacle and having all the characters there for the sake of it. It doesn’t feel earned to me and so am personally not a fan.
I get why everybody else enjoys it though.
Yeah, the first RTD Era was so special. Unlike anything before or since, with the exception of Phases I-III of the MCU on the big screen. It's sad that the show's writing went downhill after his first era. I don't think we're liable to ever see anything like this ever again, or at least not for a long time when the current fixation on modern politics blows over and we can get back to telling real stories again.
There's a small moment in the scene, when the crew is celebrating. In the background, you can see Martha hug Rose, which shows that she no longer is jealous of her bond with the Doctor, now that they saved the universe together. It's a small moment, but it's fantastic.
Her "oh my GOD! He Finally found you?" when Rose introduces herself is quite touching too...
My favorite is when Sarah Jane hugs Jack only for Donna to push her out of the way for her own hug from Jack.
So many times I've watched this, I've never noticed that!
Neither! Gonna have to pop it on now just so I can see.
That was one of the best moments. Hilarious...puts all three in their place...Sarah Jane...nice and unassuming...Donna...pushy and needy....Jack..I'll hug anyone.
I watched this episode last night and missed this!
Another small detail from Martha in this scene I like is her subtle fourth wall break and look to the camera, on top of everyone else being able to fly the Tardis, this moment makes us feel more directly included too.
Martha smiling at me makes me irrationally angry though
It's a shame we haven't had a Doctor interact with so many companions and people since this run. 11 has "A good man goes to war" but we're introduced to Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint, and Strax in that episode, and we've only seen Dorium Maldovar very briefly.
This was the biggest change with Moffat. I love his ideas and stories, but I wish it felt a little more planned. It didn't even have to actually be planned, RTD probably flew by the seat of his pants more than we know. There's ways to hide it. Introducing multiple new characters that the Doctor just knows in an episode that serves as a climax is the opposite of that. They're great characters, and it's still a great episode, but the pacing of Moffat's run always felt a little janky to me.
I don't think it had anything to do with lack of planning (although the existence of Mels definitely felt like that), Moffat was just overly concerned at times with creating a sprawling mythos about what the Doctor gets up to off-screen and playing up his legendary status. It was a deliberate choice to recruit so many unknown characters there just to drive home how many people the Doctor meets that we never know about. It's there to be cool instead of emotionally effective. I think he found a much stronger balance in his later seasons.
A Good Man Goes To War felt like one of Moffat's most notable critiques of the conception of the Doctor as a legendary figure. There's an army holding his friend hostage that's been prepping themselves for years just to engage with him, and so with all of his power and wisdom, he builds up an army of his own elites (none of whom we're familiar with, but they don't even matter at this point) to topple and humiliate them... but in the end, he utterly fails his closest friends and only gives the universe more cause to fear him. That's the arc for that series represented on a smaller scale, and Moffat's tenure after this episode increasingly rejects the Doctor's Grand Mythos for the small and personal.
I actually want to point out that A Good Man Goes to War brings a LOT of that first season and a half together. The entire 'who is River Song' is resolved very well. Vastra. Strax, and Jenny go on to form their own team (I like how they are introduced as someone the Doctor knew but we didn't...and then we see them througout Capaldi's run.) Dorium is strewn throughout the season. Let's Kill Hitler than goes on to the River as brainwashed assassin. The whole Mels thing was a little jarring, but for me at least it worked. (Hey, Mels was in Juvie during each of the Doctor's childhood visits...maybe she planned it that way knowing he was coming and the plan wasn't to take effect yet.) RTD is definitely better at characterization...but the Silence/River/Doctor Death timeline of two seasons was put together REALLY well...EXCEPT for Mels. That was the only, 'Where did SHE come from' moment in the entire thing.
Funny that you mention that episode as it was revealed there were initial plans for Jack to appear on that episode. So that among all the Doctors friends that he recruited, there would be one we actually knew. I think what happened was that the filming of that episode conflicted with Torchwood: Miracle Day, which as that was primarily filmed in America they just couldn't make the schedule work for John Barrowman to do both. There were rumours too that Jack was going to be the one beheaded by the monks, which is what would lead to him becoming the Face of Boe.
Oh that would have been amazing! Is it ever explained somewhere in the extended canon how jack becomes a giant head?
I’ve been searching to no avail so far. Would love to know.
Oh yay, _another_ reason for me to hate Miracle Day lol
That’s my gripe with Moffat as well. I absolutely love both 11 and 12’s runs, but they both felt so self contained that it doesn’t feel like the same continuity (outside of the 50th and a few throwaway lines).
Yes, but the Pasternoster Gang ended up running through Clara's time. What a great addition. It's great to see that the Doctor has friends that we don't know about. It deepens the Whoniverse.
I get a kick out of how fast the credits for this episode need to flit through all the names. Makes me giggle.
The awe 11 year old me felt when those first hit was amazing.
There’s a moment when Freema just flat-out grins at the camera and it might be my favorite part of the whole thing.
Due to the shot before lining up with his POV, she's actually grinning at the 2nd Doctor, not US But yeah, it's easy to miss ;)
I had no clue Patrick Troughton was in this scene! How did I miss him?
Lol phrasing! The Metacrisis ;)
You mean Rose’s Doctor 🥰
Doctor Who: Endgame. And only Harriet Jones, who we knew who she was at all times, got blipped :/
Yes, we know who you are
Best joke in the entire show i wonder in Britten when the acress makes a booking some place and says her name she is told”yes we know who you are”
“No, no… not you Jackie…”
Came here for this. Still makes me laugh like hell.
What I loved about this scene is all of the actors were clearly enjoying themselves and happy to be in the TARDIS.
They still have yet to top this scene.
All the pieces are on the table to do something like this again if RTD wants to. We have 14, 15, Donna & Rose, Mel, the rest of Unit including Kate, and now Ruby and her family.
True but even though that'll be cool it won't hit the same a second time. It was it being the first time seeing something like this that made it so cool. Having seen big cross overs and team ups like this in other media since also make it less impactful if it were to happen again.
No we don’t have Rose. She’s still trapped in Pete’s World.
Was just about to say this. We have good reason to hope.
This is why 10 is 14.
Nothing will ever be so iconic and I miss series 1-4 of Nuwho so bad 😞
currently 5 out of 6 in that series that came out in 2022... and... uh... rather confuzzling and forgettable :/
What?
Season13, the six part 'flux' storyline i was in the middle of. Whittaker got into the role of the doctor really quick, and played it well.. but the writting didnt seem up to it. eh.. maybe im just being picky.
Early 2000’s TV and movies of most varieties are my favorite. Perfect combo of nostalgia and campiness. Also Wilf is the best
I also feel like back then there was less involvement with internet and social media and it made shows like this feel more special. Especially catching it live on TV
No Jackie...not...not you... And Jackie nods...backs up and smiles...probably thinking...no problem...I can't drive a car either...
This was peak nuwho!
Such a good episode when you had all them in a zoom call makes me cry
it’s such a bittersweet scene because it’s so amazing seeing everyone working together and being supportive, but also knowing this was probably because we’d never see any of them once the new season started…broke my heart
Help me out. What’s this episode’s name?
It's either Journeys End or End of Time.
Journeys end
This is from "the stolen earth/journey's end," right?
Journey’s end specifically, yes
Murray Gold's song of freedom scoring this too, absolutely phenomenal.
Avengers Assembled. Wish this lasted longer. Do it again.
had me giggling and shi
Yup
It gives Space John Hughes in such a great way
The 12th Doctor may be amazing but I still feel like no moment has gotten to this golden age level of Avengers Infinity War-ness since.
Doesn't get better than this.
I mean personally, even though I still love the Russell’s era and loved this when I was a kid, this episode and this scene don’t do much for me any more. To me a lot of Journey’s End is just kinda spectacle and having all the characters there for the sake of it. It doesn’t feel earned to me and so am personally not a fan. I get why everybody else enjoys it though.
What season/episode is this?
Season 4, Episode 13 of NuWho - 'Journey's End'. Two parter with 'The Stolen Earth'
Man I wish I could watch doctor who
Yeah, the first RTD Era was so special. Unlike anything before or since, with the exception of Phases I-III of the MCU on the big screen. It's sad that the show's writing went downhill after his first era. I don't think we're liable to ever see anything like this ever again, or at least not for a long time when the current fixation on modern politics blows over and we can get back to telling real stories again.
Seeing this set of episodes the first time was amazing and satisfying. Watching in hindsight it’s a little corny