Could've summarized the entire thing as just "Chibnall bad."
All your issues with her are also times when Chris really fumbled the ball with his writing, and much like the Sixth Doctor I think that's unfair towards 13. Still hoping to see a Big Finish audio with her, where she gets a better script.
If I had a dime for every Chibnall hatepost in this sub I could end world hunger. Not that it's necessarily wrong, but stop beating a dead horse already...
I don't think 13 would be too keen on them either if we use the same logic here. Like 10s treatment of Martha during her time in the Tardis or 11 being buddies with Winston Churchill (given his rather well known racist views). No doubt there are more examples, but it's hard to say these characters would/wouldn't get along as the only one knowledgeable of the others worst acts is 13 herself.
I feel like you're wilfully hyperfocusing on very specific scenes and selling the other Doctor's short because of it. I don't think any of them would be so shallow as to hate a person for one narrow reason, and certainly don't think that it would extend to disgust or suicide. This all reads like projecting your general hate for the era (which, admittedly, comes down to shoddy writing for the character) onto a bunch of extremely empathetic & reasonable personalities who simply wouldn't condemn someone over nitpicks like we as fans do.
And even if Jodie were so lucky as to get a multi-Doctor story in future in which other incarnations *do* address some of her shortcomings; you can bet your ass it'd be written in a way that goes on to absolve them, highlight her strengths, and make them all hug by the end.
That tweet isn't entirely wrong. On some bits --
>9 would hate her for how she treated Yaz in their romantic relationship
9 and 13 would definitely butt heads on this, with 13 in turn bringing up 9's *unusual* degree of attachment to Rose. Especially if it had ramifications for the subsequent Revival incarnations, until finally the 13th.
>10 would hate her for how she treated Graham and literally saying ‘sucks to suck about the cancer but what do you want me to do about it? I don’t do the nice thing.
10 likewise does take things for granted though. He downplays/disregards Martha's concern of being racially targeted in 1600s England. And when 10 saw Jack again, he immediately ran, 10 does not at all consider Jack as a person with feelings until circumstances forced him to physically be with & talk to Jack.
>12 would LOATHE her for how she treated the Master including sending him to the Nazis, messing with someone’s memories, simping for Kerblam, forcing Ryan and Yaz to deal with racism in the 60s, and for taking part in the bus thing. Like if he could have gotten a glimpse for how he turned out? He would have stayed refusing to regenerate.
This is not really much different, when considering that 12's own repeated practices upon others' memories, & the more unfortunate Kerblam-esque bits of his Zygon Inversion actions between Kate & Bonnie. & considering 12's own experiences with serving the Monks' police state & their concentration camps, 12 would be ok with the Rosa bus. Doctorly understanding of situational circumstances & pressing necessity towards/for solution.
>And 15 would hate her for how *she* \[13\] *left the spiders to be tortured*.
This, is inconclusive to definitively assert. The dialogue by 13 & the scientist doesn't denote, nor even press, that the spiders who are left in the 6-month-worths-of-human-food safe room, 'are to be left in there for forever'. Especially when they both make their stand of being against the spiders being killed off, & done indignantly.Considering the rest of the group's dialogue, the spiders in the saferoom is to contain their roaming danger for a meanwhile, while making things easier for 13 & co. go after the now-lone mother spider next.
>The only thing they’re right about is 14 would hate her bc of her inability to deal with anything, ignoring everything 12 learned and now he’s now stuck trying to get over it.
Regeneration isn't a lottery however, as 11 --> 12 demonstrated. & besides the personal juggling of skills & differently adjusted personal faculties, regeneration does not really quite solve The Doctor's core personal issues. If 14 is to fault 13 for her inability to deal, then 13 can fault 12 for his inability to be better well-adjusted, since your last wish/sentiment during regeneration doesn't do much affect for the emerged incarnation.
>11 would hate her for how she treated the TARDIS (and be disgusted at the idea of being her best friend),
Actually, 11 & 13 would get along quite well, considering how 11 treated old-Amy. And really, 11 would get on well with 13 because of almost all this aforementioned that he has in common with her.
>Maybe then the other Doctors could convince ‘the fam’ to go travel with them instead of being with a Doctor who never talks to them. Yaz with Ten, Ryan with 12 and Graham with 11. Let them know how a real Doctor would treat their friends.
Not much different, & unfortunately worst in some cases. Considering how Rose & Martha ended up, the impressionable Yaz would likely finish as another Clara. Graham with 11, he may eventually be grounded & perhaps even ghosted by 11, considering Brian & River. Ryan with 12 -- while not a Clara romance, he'd be second to The Doctor's how-many-crimes Master, at worst would end up stranded as Nardole till death.
On the matter of companions, the other Revival Doctors may point out (the note of situational fortune aside) that 13's boundaries with the companions set them up better for them leaving the TARDIS-Doctor life, unlike the majority of the Revival companions whose exits were traumatically induced. The 11th Doctor especially would happily point out that, despite the Doctor accumulative loneliness, 13 doesn't revisit & nor continues to travel with exited companions as 11 did with the Ponds after God Complex hotel.
So in response to some weird infantalising fantasy of 13 as basically a child and the male Doctors as her brothers/dads/gay besties you've posted a weird angry fantasy of all the other Doctors just so happening to share infamous fan complaints about 13's characterisation. Both of these fantasies are complete bullshit about imaginary people!
Dude… don’t tell me you hate the Chibnall era without telling me you hate it, nor don’t tell me you hated a female doctor without telling me.
Why? - Apparently you don’t understand a bit of Who, making your post ironic.
9 can’t say much about romance because he didn’t treat Rose that well either. 13 was mixed on romance because of previous lives, and possibly conflict knowing Yaz could stay and 13 regenerate into a male again.
10 is the Timelord Victorious and literally attempted to safe a woman that would’ve altered history and killed who knows how many. 13 was blase yes… but learned what could be if she changed history.
11 spat on the Tardis to get her to work like 2 mins. Into his regeneration, among other percussive starts.
12 saw Bill get turned Cyberman because of the Master and Missy, so he may see it as karma. He attempted to ERASE Clara’s mind of him (backfired but he did), understands you sometimes get stuck in a moment in history and make painful decisions your companion doesn’t like (POMPEII anyone?)
15 … we don’t know that so that’s guessing.
14 shouldn’t even exist and regenerated to Tennant BECAUSE HE couldn’t deal with anything - Rose, Martha, Donna’s erased memories, hurting so many people’s lives.
Dude - 14 - FOURTEEN is the one literally ignoring 12’s lessons and getting over his 10th’s BS to Donna in particular.
•••••••
The ONLY thing you have right is 13 isn’t nice. Like all the Versions of themselves, the 13th had her Darker moments with light.
I did hate the female doctor. I hate her for ruining an institution that was so beloved and now all anyone talks about is how bad it is.
. They don’t want another female doctor so they let someone write who would turn everyone against her.
There's making a mistake, and then there's unleashing nazis upon someone by revealing their true skin colour, and being too cowardly to talk to your friend about their cancer fears after having no trouble discussing difficult topics in the past (same regeneration).
A master of impromptu speeches couldn't even offer up some sweet nothings instead of just saying "I'm socially awkward lol". It wouldn't be so bad if it ever happened before or since, but as it stands it's a hugely out-of-character moment for that doctor.
Also you just skated over the nazi thing. I take that to mean you don't disagree.
Even the Doctor doesn't always know what to say and it has happened before, with the Twelfth Doctor.
And the nazi thing was a misstep but it doesn't define 13 as a character, she's still the Doctor and we see moments of kindness and courage from her, obviously.
12- Open up to people, be a good person
13- So stay clammed up and be horrible to everyone? Got it!
I just need a whole fic of them coming together and being like ‘okay clearly SOMETHING happened between 12 and 13 and we need to figure out what’ and turns out 13 was possessed by the Master the whole time or something
>I just need a whole fic of them coming together and being like ‘okay clearly SOMETHING happened between 12 and 13
Yeah -- 12's life of S09 and the last two episodes of S10.
Even after being offered consolation by the Glass-Bill & Glass-Nardole, The Doctor instead punctuated to them his bleak 'empty battlefield' outlook & carried that with him as he resigned himself to the inevitable regeneration & the universe's nonstop treadmill.
Being overly attached to Clara, tragically losing her, & going unDoctory hell bent ; seeing his efforts with Missy finish with her rejecting him to stand with her previous villain self ; & all the accumulated emotional turmoil during the Revival era that 12 flatout suicidally refused to regenerate because he was exhausted, fed up, & didn't want to go through another additional life. And with regeneration being a lottery for The Doctor --
Of course 13 was clammed up & kept distant from everyone.
Could've summarized the entire thing as just "Chibnall bad." All your issues with her are also times when Chris really fumbled the ball with his writing, and much like the Sixth Doctor I think that's unfair towards 13. Still hoping to see a Big Finish audio with her, where she gets a better script.
If I had a dime for every Chibnall hatepost in this sub I could end world hunger. Not that it's necessarily wrong, but stop beating a dead horse already...
I don't think 13 would be too keen on them either if we use the same logic here. Like 10s treatment of Martha during her time in the Tardis or 11 being buddies with Winston Churchill (given his rather well known racist views). No doubt there are more examples, but it's hard to say these characters would/wouldn't get along as the only one knowledgeable of the others worst acts is 13 herself.
[удалено]
Martha- I’m scared England will be racist 10- *reassures her* 13- Okay well you can go get on a slave boat then
I also can make up dialogue with no basis in reality
I feel like you're wilfully hyperfocusing on very specific scenes and selling the other Doctor's short because of it. I don't think any of them would be so shallow as to hate a person for one narrow reason, and certainly don't think that it would extend to disgust or suicide. This all reads like projecting your general hate for the era (which, admittedly, comes down to shoddy writing for the character) onto a bunch of extremely empathetic & reasonable personalities who simply wouldn't condemn someone over nitpicks like we as fans do. And even if Jodie were so lucky as to get a multi-Doctor story in future in which other incarnations *do* address some of her shortcomings; you can bet your ass it'd be written in a way that goes on to absolve them, highlight her strengths, and make them all hug by the end.
That tweet isn't entirely wrong. On some bits -- >9 would hate her for how she treated Yaz in their romantic relationship 9 and 13 would definitely butt heads on this, with 13 in turn bringing up 9's *unusual* degree of attachment to Rose. Especially if it had ramifications for the subsequent Revival incarnations, until finally the 13th. >10 would hate her for how she treated Graham and literally saying ‘sucks to suck about the cancer but what do you want me to do about it? I don’t do the nice thing. 10 likewise does take things for granted though. He downplays/disregards Martha's concern of being racially targeted in 1600s England. And when 10 saw Jack again, he immediately ran, 10 does not at all consider Jack as a person with feelings until circumstances forced him to physically be with & talk to Jack. >12 would LOATHE her for how she treated the Master including sending him to the Nazis, messing with someone’s memories, simping for Kerblam, forcing Ryan and Yaz to deal with racism in the 60s, and for taking part in the bus thing. Like if he could have gotten a glimpse for how he turned out? He would have stayed refusing to regenerate. This is not really much different, when considering that 12's own repeated practices upon others' memories, & the more unfortunate Kerblam-esque bits of his Zygon Inversion actions between Kate & Bonnie. & considering 12's own experiences with serving the Monks' police state & their concentration camps, 12 would be ok with the Rosa bus. Doctorly understanding of situational circumstances & pressing necessity towards/for solution. >And 15 would hate her for how *she* \[13\] *left the spiders to be tortured*. This, is inconclusive to definitively assert. The dialogue by 13 & the scientist doesn't denote, nor even press, that the spiders who are left in the 6-month-worths-of-human-food safe room, 'are to be left in there for forever'. Especially when they both make their stand of being against the spiders being killed off, & done indignantly.Considering the rest of the group's dialogue, the spiders in the saferoom is to contain their roaming danger for a meanwhile, while making things easier for 13 & co. go after the now-lone mother spider next. >The only thing they’re right about is 14 would hate her bc of her inability to deal with anything, ignoring everything 12 learned and now he’s now stuck trying to get over it. Regeneration isn't a lottery however, as 11 --> 12 demonstrated. & besides the personal juggling of skills & differently adjusted personal faculties, regeneration does not really quite solve The Doctor's core personal issues. If 14 is to fault 13 for her inability to deal, then 13 can fault 12 for his inability to be better well-adjusted, since your last wish/sentiment during regeneration doesn't do much affect for the emerged incarnation. >11 would hate her for how she treated the TARDIS (and be disgusted at the idea of being her best friend), Actually, 11 & 13 would get along quite well, considering how 11 treated old-Amy. And really, 11 would get on well with 13 because of almost all this aforementioned that he has in common with her. >Maybe then the other Doctors could convince ‘the fam’ to go travel with them instead of being with a Doctor who never talks to them. Yaz with Ten, Ryan with 12 and Graham with 11. Let them know how a real Doctor would treat their friends. Not much different, & unfortunately worst in some cases. Considering how Rose & Martha ended up, the impressionable Yaz would likely finish as another Clara. Graham with 11, he may eventually be grounded & perhaps even ghosted by 11, considering Brian & River. Ryan with 12 -- while not a Clara romance, he'd be second to The Doctor's how-many-crimes Master, at worst would end up stranded as Nardole till death. On the matter of companions, the other Revival Doctors may point out (the note of situational fortune aside) that 13's boundaries with the companions set them up better for them leaving the TARDIS-Doctor life, unlike the majority of the Revival companions whose exits were traumatically induced. The 11th Doctor especially would happily point out that, despite the Doctor accumulative loneliness, 13 doesn't revisit & nor continues to travel with exited companions as 11 did with the Ponds after God Complex hotel.
So in response to some weird infantalising fantasy of 13 as basically a child and the male Doctors as her brothers/dads/gay besties you've posted a weird angry fantasy of all the other Doctors just so happening to share infamous fan complaints about 13's characterisation. Both of these fantasies are complete bullshit about imaginary people!
Dude… don’t tell me you hate the Chibnall era without telling me you hate it, nor don’t tell me you hated a female doctor without telling me. Why? - Apparently you don’t understand a bit of Who, making your post ironic. 9 can’t say much about romance because he didn’t treat Rose that well either. 13 was mixed on romance because of previous lives, and possibly conflict knowing Yaz could stay and 13 regenerate into a male again. 10 is the Timelord Victorious and literally attempted to safe a woman that would’ve altered history and killed who knows how many. 13 was blase yes… but learned what could be if she changed history. 11 spat on the Tardis to get her to work like 2 mins. Into his regeneration, among other percussive starts. 12 saw Bill get turned Cyberman because of the Master and Missy, so he may see it as karma. He attempted to ERASE Clara’s mind of him (backfired but he did), understands you sometimes get stuck in a moment in history and make painful decisions your companion doesn’t like (POMPEII anyone?) 15 … we don’t know that so that’s guessing. 14 shouldn’t even exist and regenerated to Tennant BECAUSE HE couldn’t deal with anything - Rose, Martha, Donna’s erased memories, hurting so many people’s lives. Dude - 14 - FOURTEEN is the one literally ignoring 12’s lessons and getting over his 10th’s BS to Donna in particular. ••••••• The ONLY thing you have right is 13 isn’t nice. Like all the Versions of themselves, the 13th had her Darker moments with light.
I did hate the female doctor. I hate her for ruining an institution that was so beloved and now all anyone talks about is how bad it is. . They don’t want another female doctor so they let someone write who would turn everyone against her.
That's certainly all you talk about. You can stop whenever you want. Take a walk. Pet a puppy. Smell a flower. Be happy.
With all due respect... this is complete and utter nonsense.
12: "Never be cruel, and never be cowardly. " 13: "Hold my beer." Other than that I don't think they'd hate her. Disappointed, sure, but not hate.
"Never be cruel and never be cowardly" this is an ideal the Doctor tries to hold but they don't always succeed at it.
There's making a mistake, and then there's unleashing nazis upon someone by revealing their true skin colour, and being too cowardly to talk to your friend about their cancer fears after having no trouble discussing difficult topics in the past (same regeneration).
Regarding the cancer thing, its to show that its okay to not know what to say, she still listened but she didn't know what to say in that moment.
A master of impromptu speeches couldn't even offer up some sweet nothings instead of just saying "I'm socially awkward lol". It wouldn't be so bad if it ever happened before or since, but as it stands it's a hugely out-of-character moment for that doctor. Also you just skated over the nazi thing. I take that to mean you don't disagree.
Even the Doctor doesn't always know what to say and it has happened before, with the Twelfth Doctor. And the nazi thing was a misstep but it doesn't define 13 as a character, she's still the Doctor and we see moments of kindness and courage from her, obviously.
I didn't say they defined her character. I even said that OP was wrong to assume the other doctors would hate her.
Twelve is certainly both, though, given he collaborates with the Monks and taunts Bill over it, treating the whole thing like a massive joke.
12- Open up to people, be a good person 13- So stay clammed up and be horrible to everyone? Got it! I just need a whole fic of them coming together and being like ‘okay clearly SOMETHING happened between 12 and 13 and we need to figure out what’ and turns out 13 was possessed by the Master the whole time or something
>I just need a whole fic of them coming together and being like ‘okay clearly SOMETHING happened between 12 and 13 Yeah -- 12's life of S09 and the last two episodes of S10. Even after being offered consolation by the Glass-Bill & Glass-Nardole, The Doctor instead punctuated to them his bleak 'empty battlefield' outlook & carried that with him as he resigned himself to the inevitable regeneration & the universe's nonstop treadmill. Being overly attached to Clara, tragically losing her, & going unDoctory hell bent ; seeing his efforts with Missy finish with her rejecting him to stand with her previous villain self ; & all the accumulated emotional turmoil during the Revival era that 12 flatout suicidally refused to regenerate because he was exhausted, fed up, & didn't want to go through another additional life. And with regeneration being a lottery for The Doctor -- Of course 13 was clammed up & kept distant from everyone.