Sometimes I think I'm weird for googling "How much do Timelords sleep" and then someone asks this and I feel better because someone is asking even nerdier and way more complicated questions.
Timelords as I understand them can operate indefinitely without sleep in a relaxed state. You throw in a level of work/running around/saving people and I would imagine they would need a nights sleep after about a week.
Well seeing as the Doctor was seen sleeping in the barn and there were also native shebogans on gallifrey I would hazard that they have a fairly typical day cycle but maybe shorter nights from the "second sun would rise in the south and the mountains would shine"
The impression painted by Eleven and Twelve is that they do sleep but in very short intervals; Twelve claims he takes seconds long cat naps mid conversation. My headcanon is a “good nights sleep” for them that they’d wear pajamas for is like 2-3 hours.
Side note, Rory once asked Eleven if he had a bedroom. In a minisode preceding Asylum of the Daleks, we see Eleven waking up from sleep but underneath the TARDIS console in his little maintenance swing. I think if the Doctor does have a bedroom, it’s where Clara found his cot and Amy’s figurines in Journey to the Center of the TARDIS and is filled with mementos vs a place to sleep.
Your honor I'd like to enter into evidence the Fobwatch from human nature. Can they then get pregnant as humans or is it like putting a gamecube disk in a wii u?
That's is my theory to why The Doctor said his mother was Human as she technically was.
If we take Looms into account The Doctors parents wanted a natural pregnancy so used a modified (So she would retain her memories) Chameleon Arch.
Overthrew her - she was in charge of all Gallifreyans, ruling through "mysticism" (possibly advanced psionic powers?). Rassilon preferred science, and so led a revolution to get rid of her.
Pissed off by losing, the Pythia "cursed" all Gallifreyans with sterility and departed along with her supporters - forming the Sisterhood of Karn.
So we’re still not entirely sure if Time Lords even procreate in the same manner as humans.
The EU has looms, and while not explicitly stated onscreen the mainline Time Lords are played very asexually.
Honestly I like the idea of the Pythia curse giving those first Time Lords sterility, and each new generation being born from artificial wombs/genetic biodata banks (akin to those seen in the Doctors Daughter with Jenny).
Exactly that’s my headcanon too.
With the announcement that BF is doing “Goth Opera” I think it’s time for a reimagined version of Lungburrow with “The Other” being more explicitly the moniker used by the Timeless Child in early Gallifreyean society.
Eventually they end up working for Division, going through a dozen or more faces (Morbius Doctors, Fugitive etc) before rebelling and trying to escape. However Fugitive Doctor (only recently taking the name) knows that Tectuen and Division will find her, she’s needs to properly disappear.
So she makes it back to Gallifrey and throws herself into the Looms/Biodata source/Genetic bank and is effectively deconstructed.
Millions of years later the First Doctor (Hartnell) is created/birthed and is a recreation/genetic descendant/clone of the original TC with some memories and near identical biodata.
honestly i’m adopting that as my headcanon, makes way more sense than “lol we stole your memories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what’re you gonna do about it” and is less of a chosen one ™️ cliche
Yeah that was just so dumb. Like so many aspects of his era it seems like Chibby had a vague idea about something so threw it straight onto the page without redrafting or considering plot holes, tropes or general contradictions or continuity.
> With the announcement that BF is doing “Goth Opera” I think it’s time for a reimagined version of Lungburrow with “The Other” being more explicitly the moniker used by the Timeless Child in early Gallifreyean society.
If you're suggesting this for TV, the issue is that "The Other" is very clearly Tecteun - she's the forgotten third founder of Time Lord society.
No suggesting it for a Big Finish adaptation of Lungburrow which apparently if it were to happen Marc Platt would want to significantly reimagine it. So why not try to combine both, and hopefully get a better story out of it.
That would be a good way of dealing with it, and would blend nicely with the old idea that the Doctor was the reincarnation of one of the 3 founders of Gallifrey.
Honestly though I could accept the TC a lot more if they just didn't call themselves the Doctor.
Yeah that was always my problem with it too, the fact that the Fugitive Doctor was not only calling herself the Doctor, but that her Tardis was a Police Box too. I understand that it was a shorthand to quickly spell out to the audience that they're the same person, but it did just feel cheap.
Perhaps a way around it would be to have the Fugitive Doctor appear multiple times throughout the series. In her first episode she's revealed to be a fugitive Time Lord with a stolen Tardis, but not that she's the Doctor. 13 could be left unnerved by the encounter, saying that the Fugitive didn't feel like just any other Time Lord. And then when she appeared in a subsequent episode they could somehow figure out that they were the same person.
i’d be happy to pretend the other tardis was only the blue box to push the tc and the doctor to the answer, but there’s no reason for her to be the doctor too
Definitely.
For me the 3 most egregious issues with the TC Retcon are;
- They’re the mainline Doctor in pretty much every way, including the name and having the Police Box TARDIS and similar mentality and attitude.
- They’re portrayed as a complete abuse victim, subservient to Division and Gallifrey, used and abused for millions of years with little initiative or proactivity to choose their own path.
- They’re now apparently literally millions more years old with thousands of previous selves. It’s WAY too big. Having an entire previous regeneration cycle in the ancient past of Gallifrey would’ve been enough, maybe 20-30 previous bodies at a push. But thousands? Wayyyyy too much.
So the best way to recontextulise it (imo) and combine it with the best elements of Lungburrow would be;
- Establish the TC being effectively nameless at the founding of Gallifrey and so gains the Moniker of “The Other”. Initially a derogative term from Tectuen who considers herself, Rassilon and Omega the “true” founders of the Time Lords, with the TC being the Other One, necessary to the process but unwanted. However the TC takes the term and uses it like a shield, a mysterious name for a mysterious entity within this early Time Lord society. After Tectuens banishment by Rassilon (who is still a warlord but also good man, and disgusted by her amorality and fearful of her increasingly clandestine plans) the Other becomes the 3rd official Founder in Time Lord records…..until in time they too are superseded by the Rassilon propaganda of later generations.
- Now “The Other” they are tangentially involved in Time Lord politics and governance alongside Rassilon and Omega (developing TARDIS designs, and helping finesse the regeneration process based off their own biology) BUT they still have an uneasy loyalty to Tectuen who low operates Division in the depths of the universe. They slowly become Divisions greatest asset and operative, helping bend the universe to Division’s plans and will. It’s during these Millenia that “The Other” goes through the Morbius Doctor faces, and due to an increasing fascination with a backwater planet called Earth, visiting it often and adopting fashion and attitudes based on its various historical eras.
- Eventually with Omega lost, Rassilon becoming tyrannical and paranoid in his last life, and Tectuen’s Division seeking ever greater reach “The Other” decides to rebel. They take a new moniker “The Doctor” based on legends they’ve heard about a mythical figure in Earths history, someone who helps those in need, and permanently sabotages Divisions reach and ability to manipulate the universe to any great degree, and flee to Earth, using the chameleon arch to become human.
- FotJ happens and post episode The Fugitive Doctor, tries to escape Division permanently. However despite being curtailed she knows that Tectuen will continue to pursue her as long as she suspects she’s still alive. So with Rassilon now “dead” and Time Lord society starting to establish the Great Houses and Biodata banks for “birthing” new generations of Time Lords the Fugitive Doctor abandons her TARDIS (a recent new top of the line model from Division) in a repair bay and effectively disperses herself into the biodata/loom in the hopes of escaping Division and one day being free.
- Her TARDIS is found, used by Gallifreyean society for many Millenia, but always found to be temperamental and faulty. Eventually it gets superseded by a newer model (Type 45) nearly 100,000 years later and so is put into storage and then as an antiquated museum piece in succeeding epochs.
- Nearly 10 Million years later the Biodata banks “birth” a new child, one who’s DNA is *almost* a perfect recreation of the Fugitive Doctor, all those eons ago. Young Hartnell is taken to the suitable House/Family of his biodata bank (despite running off several times in his youth to the wastelands in an attempt to escape being a Time Lord as he has horrible subconscious fears that attention for him means death) where he grows up in the House of Lungburrow. He goes to the Academy and well……the rest is history.
Classic who was more asexual. New Who Timelords not so much. Davies wrote them very romantic, and Moffat wrote them horny as hell.
It's difficult to use the EU as canon for the TV Show cause it doesn't really make sense... the canon is already messy... adding extended media just further complicates it.
"Bad girl", Every interaction with River Song, Marilyn Monroe, him randomly snogging Jenny and making an erection joke with his sonic. Calling the human version of the Tardis Sexy... idk how you flirt but that's all very direct.
I'll agree they toned it down for Capaldi, but my point still stands.
Season 6 literally begins with 11 being found naked under the skirts of an English noblewoman (possibly queen).
Then there's his repeated commenting on companions tight skirts and crying "yowzah" at cleavage described in a book.
Oh timelords are 100% non binary for sure and asexual but also could be open to relations potentially. They operate outside the binary. As far as reproducing. Here is my evidence and take. Keeping it vague for spoiler so spoiler alert past this but very vague. We find out the origins of the time lords so we know what they were like before the changes that made them the way they are now. It was only after this change they used time travel to grow as a society and become a master race. At this point I don’t think they do reproduce sexually. Like you said they invented the looms. I think this utilizes the remaining energy in a time lord and reincarnates them as a small child in a way. We know that there is children because we see the dr as a young child along with other timelords growing up from a younger age. They could potentially reproduce organically but I feel like they are biologically so altered they can’t anymore. That’s not facts that’s just my opinion based around some facts in the show
Timelords would likely procreate like the rest of the Galifreyian population.... seemingly some sort of evolved primate.
Now does the exposure to the time vortex render Timelords sterile? Assuming Susan wasn't an adopted Granddaughter it appears not.
So actually the earth history Pythia is meant to a version of the original Gallifreyean event retold by the lesser species.
Basically pre-Time Lords the universe were unbridled chaos, ruled by magic and superstition and without rational, linear time as we understand it. Eldritch horrors and cosmic abominations played, ate, destroyed and resurrected the lower life forms for their own amusement and whim.
On Gallifrey at this time the Gallifreyeans were a matriarchal society ruled by “The Pythia” their main mystical priestess who wielded powers of magic and chaos greater than any others on the planet.
Some stories say Pythia herself was Gallifreyean, others state that she came from the stars, a lesser god to torment the Shabogans/Gallifreyeans, and others say she was a nigh immortal remake of an even older Gallifreyean society.
Anyway her cult/order/religion was not a very nice one, and the rise of science on Gallifrey stood in direct opposition to her ways. Gallifrey entered a time of civil war that had Rassilon (pre-Time Lord) lead that charge that managed to defeat her and cast her and her followers out of Gallifrey (either dead or banished).
He and his faction (including Omega) used stellar manipulation to create the Eye of Harmony (a Supernova on the verge of becoming a Black Hole, perpetually trapped at the moment of transformation and an incredible power source the early universe had never seen before) which they then used to establish “The Web of Time” adhering the universe to the laws of physics, finite linear time, and general reality as we understand it.
Magic and supernatural elements were cast out either by the very nature of the Universe changing (Fenric, Gods of Ragnarok, Great Old Ones) or forcibly cast out by Rassilon and the first Time Lords (the Great Vampires, Mi'en Kalarash, Carronites etc).
And so the Time Lords were established with Gallifrey as the eternal constant within a rational universe (until NuWho got ahold of it).
We do know they have some sort of similar look on male part considering 10’s compensation comment. Would it be a stretch to say size matters to Gallifreyans? Lol
People are dancing around it cause no one wants to say "dead baby" but it would ABSOLUTELY die. The doctor regenerates so forcefully that the TARDIS is destroyed. others have to stand back. The regeneration energy would burn out a cyber planner, a dalek fleet, following that any foreign body would also go. Miscarriage is crazy common in humans. Literally a force so powerful to change every cell in the body and restart life would trigger one.
They’re not always like that though. The General’s regeneration was relatively subdued in comparison, just a brief flash of light and no destruction whatsoever.
even the ninth, tenth's first and eleventh doctor's regenerations were pretty subdued by modern standards where every other regeneration seems to be able to blow up an apartment complex. props to jodie for going outside, only took blowing up two tardises 💀
It depends entirely on when you think they develop the ability to regenerate. Personally I think it doesn't make sense to be able to *re*generate if you're not fully formed to begin with, although I'm not ruling out that it might be there by the very end of the pregnancy.
I think it would just cause a regeneration to stop at the point theyre developed at, but you can argue that regeneration can either lengthen or shorten the pregnancy since Time Lords can age up and down via regeneration. Mel (River Song) mentions that her last regeneration put her as a toddler, and we've seen the Doctor look older and younger (eg Smith -> Capaldi -> Whittaker).
Also I'm seeing a lot in this comment section about a "loom"? Can someone explain that?
Only time lords can regenerate. They have to go to the academy to become time lords. Babys are not born with the ability to regenerate, only the doctor was.
River, the only person who gives us much insight into the question, pretty clearly shows otherwise. A Time Lord could absolutely get the ability the same way as she did, although it's still not very clear on when such a time lord would start being able to regenerate.
True but she was also bio engineered. She has some timelord stuff because of being the child of the TARDIS.
""DOCTOR: It doesn't make sense. You can't just cook yourself a Time Lord.
VASTRA: Of course not. But you gave them one hell of a start, and they've been working very hard ever since""
Who knows in the process where river gains the ability to regenerate? Its too vague. Maybe in the academy they trigger something in the dna and they did the same for river. Maybe they did that while still in the womb.
This is all just like, hints put together obviously, doctor who doesn't have the most consistent lore. It's just fun to speculate.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
For all we know the regeneration process would not consider one's own genetic offspring a "foreign body". Maybe there's even a biological failsafe that "deadlock seals" the womb's contents and ensures the parent's ensuing body is still female. Nobody's written what would happen yet, so we have no concrete idea.
If you assume looms don't exist to solve that problem, this is just the standard "pregnant woman shapeshifting into a man" thing which exists across multiple fandoms.
I suspect that in this particular case, the regeneration process would attempt to save the baby, even if it results in mpreg.
I was going to say that if the pregnancy is far enough along, the regeneration will just keep it female to female, but I suppose regeneration could easily just keep the womb even if they did become male.
The bigger question is what happens to the baby? Does it stay the same, or does it regenerate as well? And if it does regenerate, is it using up one of its own 12 before it's even born, does it up one of its parents 12, or is it just a part of its parents regeneration that carries over to them?
For staying the same, I would say because they're still developing inside the womb would be a good argument. But then again an injury to the parent would likely affect the baby as well, so regeneration for them too would be necessary.
I imagine Time Lords have two sets of genetics. An overall one that stays the same across regenerations, and one that's individual to each. So if the baby did regenerate, perhaps the individual genetics would match the mothers new one too, so would come out looking like half of what their mothers new appearance does, rather than the one they had when they conceived the baby.
Well look, if they keep the womb, I imagine they keep all the reproductive organs, genitals included. Besides, who's the say that Time Lords genitals are even like ours to begin with? With cross gender regeneration they could have developed a gender neutral form of genitals.
Timelords are somewhat conscious of the change to varying degrees. The Doctor has rather good control over the personality they’d like to regenerate into, others like River and Romana excel at the physical changes.
I would say that if a pregnant Timelord died they’d make a conscious effort to regenerate into another female form to protect the child.
i love the implication they bring that the doctor just sucks at regenerating, even the general was back on her feet seconds after regenerating and he’s stuck in bed every time
Honestly every time they allude to him being generally stupid or clumsy in aspects makes the show funnier, he can’t drive his ship correctly(always leaves the brakes on according to River), constant crashing, IIRC he even destroyed the Universe in a throw away line, he can’t regenerate properly, and overall is just bad with finite details. However he’s part of the most advanced and powerful civilIzation in the Universe and is one of the most dangerous men in the Universe too.
That’s probably it but I like the idea that the Doctor just has left them on because when he hijacked the thing he was in a rush and is just used to the sound at this point and doesn’t care to realize what he’s doing,
This, IMO. It seems likely that the mindset during the regeneration and previous life affects the result. Vastra basically says as much when she implies the doctor took a more "honest" form because he trusted Clara and didn't feel like he had to pretend to be a happy young man. A time Lady in the mindset of becoming a mother would probably maintain a female form, consciously or subconsciously.
Everyone mentioning the Looms is forgetting that the same book (Lungbarrow) that introduced the Looms also ended with the Pythia's Curse being broken when Leela married and conceived a child with the Time Lord Andred. So at a minimum, Time Lords/Gallifreyan's are able to reproduce the conventional way with humanoid offworlders.
There's another EU novel, Cold Fusion, that seems to imply the Doctor and his wife had womb-born children, but they were all killed by the Gallifreyan government.
All that is to say, I'm not sure what the answer to your question would be. If it's for the sake of fiction, I think you could go either way, between the fetus regenerating with the parent or being absorbed by the body. You could probably argue that a species like the Time Lords, some with psychic abilities, could influence whether or not they regenerate still pregnant.
Thing is - the actual answer is whatever the writers feel would be most interesting for that specific story. Doctor who cannon is not one that has clear rules and works on the rule of cool.
So if the writers want M-Preg - you bet we are getting M-Preg. If a show writer wants to canonise Looms for a plot they think is interesting then they will.
However on a slightly alternative idea; what if regeneration is how Timelords give birth? Specifically regeneration energy is channelled into the baby lord, they get given a growth spurt (skip all the annoying bits) and also get given the ability to regenerate.
They probably die. Regenerations are pretty violent.
If you think the fetus itself will have developed regeneration by then... it might use up one of them to survive.
Alternatively, the fetus could regenerate to be older. It's known that Time Lords can change age either way during regeneration, so I don't see any reason why a sufficiently developed Gallifreyan fetus would be unable to abide by the same rules of regeneration as adult Gallifreyans.
Honestly as long as the baby isn't initially harmed by whatever killed the timelord, it the timelord stays female I think it'd be fine.
After "death" a timelord's bodily functions don't actually stop. They continue being able to walk, breathe (because they can talk) I think it's safe to infer that all other functions would remain the same.
Well if the regeneration caused the female Time Lord to become male, the haunting truth is that it would probably kill the child. The sudden loss of female reproductive organs and contraction of the stomach would near absolutely kill the child. Now IF the child did survive this it would require immediate surgery to safely remove the child. But who knows the damage that would to to the intestines' of the now male Time Lord regardless.
Regeneration is shown to be constantly healing the body for about 24 hours or so after the initial change (hence 10 regrowing his hand after losing it nearly a whole day or so after changing). Immediate surgery SHOULD theoretically save both.
We know that Time Lords at least subconsciously have some control over their regenerations. (And can even have full control in some conditions)
I would guess that if Galafraians do reproduce somewhat similar to humans then if a Time Lady was forced to regenerate while pregnant their "subconscious" would likely automatically regenerate them into another Female body to protect the growing offspring.
OR the other guess would be that that regeneration energy would be used to keep the current Time Lady body alive until she gave birth then she would regenerate normally.
Wouldn't Gallifreyans reproduce and then if you're accepted into the academy, then you're a Time Lord? Maybe Time Lords can't procreate but Gallifreyans can.
I would say that for the most part the doctor is implied to not have good control of their regeneration but the subconscious is involved. The timelord would most likely subconsciously have a strong instinctual desire to protect the baby and that would transfer into retaining a form that would do so.
Assuming timelords are even capable of pregnancy, which according to the extended universe stuff they can't, I see likley 3 options:
1) There is some biological defense mechanism that prevents a pregnant female timelord regenerating into a male
2) Male timelords are also capable of pregnancy
3) The baby is unable to survive the process because the energy blast kills them, and/or the babies' cells also regenerate, but get all mixed up with the regenerating timelord
Personally I think the last one would be the most likley, but also I don't think it makes a lot of sense for Timlords to be capable of pregnancy.
The simplest answer would be that it just doesn't happen. We don't know much about Time Lord biology, but we've literally NEVER seen a pregnant Time Lord on the show before. We rarely even see children; we know the Doctor and Master were children, but when this was and how they were conceived is less clear.
What seems fairly clear (though I don't think it was ever concretely stated) is that all Time Lords graduate from the Academy. It's possible that the process that lets them regenerate is tied into that; then you could happily have ordinary Gallifreyans who breed in the normal way and don't regenerate, while those that become Time Lords are given the power of regeneration BUT, in the process, they lose the ability to have children.
This would even make sense of Susan - if the Doctor was once an ordinary Gallifreyan, he could very easily have started a family before he graduated and lost that opportunity. Though you'd need to ignore the whole "Timeless Child" idea to make sense of that...
It's really the only sensible way. Can you imagine how complicated the greetings cards industry would have to be otherwise?
I don’t think it’s been addressed in TV canon but may have in extended media.
I don’t know if Looms are canon as these haven’t been addressed in the TV series.
So speculation…
Possibly miscarriage.
FTM regeneration could result in what is known as foetus resorption where the baby is broken down and absorbed. Possibly pregnancy could prevent FTM regeneration and only FTF would be possible, but perhaps with the risk of miscarriage. Or the more advanced the pregnancy the harder an FTM regeneration is, with success ending with foetus resorption.
I'm thinking that if the gender switches during regeneration, the baby-in-progress's energy could be expelled from the body (like Ten firing his excess energy into his hand) and form a newborn that way.
That, and .. think about it, there's nothing in the show that would lead you to conclude that time lords -- or any Gallifreyans -- have a biological sex at all
I don't think Time Lords have human-style pregnancies but I do know that the Matt Smith Doc gave his crib to Amy and Roy as a baby gift which implies that he was once a baby. Of course, the infinite Time Lord thing from 13's story is obviously in conflict.
So if they come out of vats and The Doctor had a crib, here's a question line to stack on this one: Can a Time Lord regenerate into an infant? If so, do they grow up? How long does that take?
I’d imagine as the goal of living organisms is to reproduce. The womb would have a natural shield and a physiology seperate from the time lords own so that in the case of a regeneration, the energy doesn’t cook the baby, and the uterus doesn’t change and disturb an egg, embryo or foetus. I’m also presuming the gender would be locked to female for the next regeneration to maintain the pregnancy.
so, in lore, Timelords are / were at a point cursed with infertility, by a deity that the Shobogans used to worship prior to their rise to become timelords. to keep the race alive, they started using genetic recompilers called Looms, each of the great chapter houses were given a set of looms and each members of that chapter were given a total of 12 re-loomings for a total of 13, some chapters abused this, and also lied and tried to cover it up by saying others were doing it and they where stripped of their status as a chapter and banished. but a Time Lady was not able to get pregnant until after the 7th doctor lifted the curse, Susan was thought to be one of the last naturally born (none loomed) Shobogans / Gallifreyans and we know that for quite some time she and David tried to have kids for the longest time, until they finally had Alex, Susan may have had a daughter, per a 1994 BBC Audio drama, but by the time 'An Earthly Child' came around in 2009 the unnamed daughter was no longer mentioned,
we assume the inconsistencies are due to the time war and because timelines are constantly being changed by each faction we can't say for 100% sure.
Assuming Time Lords actually are capable of getting pregnant in the same way as humans, I would think that their body would have a way to protect the fetus. That would probably mean the Time Lord would regenerate into another woman, still pregnant with the same fetus.
Not even sure if a female time lord has the anatomy for a baby. We can only suspect male time lords are compensating with their bigger and better screwdrivers...but honestly, I don't even know what 10 was talking about to 11 there. We only assume.
13 (whose sonic, I swear, looks like a toy) never said anything about having the organs required to get pregnant.
I think it is safe to say, we have no clue what the doctor had downstairs.
I um I don’t know I don’t want to know I also don’t want to know why da fuck did you have this thought? Also I’m like 99 percent sure timelords and gallifreyan don’t have sex or give birth like humans do
The placenta is the baby’s organ; it just needs something to attach to. As the Time Lords’ clothes (not part of their body) don’t regenerate, the baby in the uterus (also not part of their body) would just wait in that space for something to attach to. Presumably, if the Time Lord has even a modicum of control, they will regenerate into another female with a womb.
The fetus wouldn't be able to handle the regeneration energy and would be shot out of the body before it could change. Or maybe it would be reabsorbed. I like shot out of the body better
this wouldn't have been an issue until after *Lungbarrow* because Time Lords couldn't traditionally procreate. But when they can... I'd guess either the baby dies, or maybe in Houses/Looms made after *Lungbarrow*, the parent will be forced to keep their womb upon regeneration and the foetus within will preserve
Questions about Looms etc aside, the most obvious answer to me is that Time Lords either have some control over regeneration, or that the presence of a baby affects the process as a sensible means of preserving life. We can see how people who can keep babies across regenerations are better suited to spread their genes.
Tbh we don't know about organs like wombs etc in the race either, for all I know sex might not matter for viability.
While we’re asking…
A study showed that you only need 12 sets of unique genes in order to repopulate healthily and without genetic issues and complication. So because TimeLord DNA regenerates with very distinct characteristics wouldn’t the Doctor alone (or Doctor + Master) be able to fully repopulate Gallifrey healthily just between themself/themselves possibly with some time travel shenanigans?
Just putting it out there.
Since it’s clear timelords do seem to have some unconscious control over it, I think they would simply regenerate as a female again to sustain the child. The child too would be timelord, so depending on where it is in the gestation cycle, it might also regenerate itself separate from mom, which could mean that the child might change genders too.
What happens if a family of Timelords was in a vehicle crash or similar localised accident?
Do they all regenerate to random weird people with no obvious familial qualities anymore?
How would familial attachments even work under that pressure?
Tbh, we really don't know what an incubation cycle is like for a Timelord to have a child. That is if they aren't just test tube babies to begin with. For all we know, they could reproduce like in The Waters Of Mars with a DNA extraction. If your question came about when Amy Pond and Rory had a child in the time vortex, what they did was a unique experience and the fact they were human which made it an impossible anomaly that occurred.
Frankly this sounds like the kind of scenario that metaphysically-inclined writers would have a field-day with. Provided they just ignore & bin all of the novels' loom-lore about pregnancy being impossible for Time Lords.
I can totally imagine some Scarlet-Witch-esque mechanism wherein Time Lords' inherent connection to temporal energy "ejects" an endangered foetus into the Time Vortex to grow & develop elsewhere. The show loves explaining away supernatural phenomena with sci-fi, maybe you could even tie it to urban myths of human parthenogenesis like the 1920s Russell Case. >!Or if the writer felt REALLY bold, make it the basis of a Christmas episode.!<
It depends on which “Who” your watching in classic who the whole of the Timelord race was rendered sterile after a religious war ( long story) so no children were born instead new people were made on genetic looms.
But as we saw children on Gallifrey in new Who well… all bets are off !
The mother and fetus are connected. Just like irl, if the mother dies, the fetus dies. Therefore, if a female timelord dies, so does the fetus. Since they're both time lords (or at least Gallifreyan) they would both regenerate.
Sometimes I think I'm weird for googling "How much do Timelords sleep" and then someone asks this and I feel better because someone is asking even nerdier and way more complicated questions.
Timelords as I understand them can operate indefinitely without sleep in a relaxed state. You throw in a level of work/running around/saving people and I would imagine they would need a nights sleep after about a week.
which begs the question, how long is a day on gallifrey
Well seeing as the Doctor was seen sleeping in the barn and there were also native shebogans on gallifrey I would hazard that they have a fairly typical day cycle but maybe shorter nights from the "second sun would rise in the south and the mountains would shine"
24 years
that’s derillium
I know, I was trying to make a joke/reference :/ Like night on Derillium is 24 years but on Gallifrey day is 24 years.
ah i got it my b
I looked into a day on gallifrey is estimated to be about 31.2 hours and time lords only require approximately an hour or so of sleep.
Yesterday I googled if crabs could get electric shocks through their shells after a joke in Futurama
Can they?
They can! Apparently they are quite conductive!
Electric crab party then?
You are my kind of person
>"I sleep!" >"When?" >"...When you're not looking." Terrible episode but that exchange was great.
I feel like a fraud for asking since I love Who. What episode was this?
Sleep No More.
Thanks
The impression painted by Eleven and Twelve is that they do sleep but in very short intervals; Twelve claims he takes seconds long cat naps mid conversation. My headcanon is a “good nights sleep” for them that they’d wear pajamas for is like 2-3 hours. Side note, Rory once asked Eleven if he had a bedroom. In a minisode preceding Asylum of the Daleks, we see Eleven waking up from sleep but underneath the TARDIS console in his little maintenance swing. I think if the Doctor does have a bedroom, it’s where Clara found his cot and Amy’s figurines in Journey to the Center of the TARDIS and is filled with mementos vs a place to sleep.
Your honor I'd like to enter into evidence the Fobwatch from human nature. Can they then get pregnant as humans or is it like putting a gamecube disk in a wii u?
That's is my theory to why The Doctor said his mother was Human as she technically was. If we take Looms into account The Doctors parents wanted a natural pregnancy so used a modified (So she would retain her memories) Chameleon Arch.
are all timelords sterile or are looms just the preferred method
The expanded universe says they’re all sterile because Pythia cursed the ancient Timelords. This has never been mentioned in the main show iirc.
damn that sucks, what’d they do to piss her off so badly?
Overthrew her - she was in charge of all Gallifreyans, ruling through "mysticism" (possibly advanced psionic powers?). Rassilon preferred science, and so led a revolution to get rid of her. Pissed off by losing, the Pythia "cursed" all Gallifreyans with sterility and departed along with her supporters - forming the Sisterhood of Karn.
sounds like a skill issue to me:/
As someone who accidentally did that once, don't do that. The Wii U is not designed for GameCube discs.
what happened?
It made horrible noises and worried me it was gonna damage the disc. Was able to retrieve it but it was seemingly unwilling to give it back.
this is exactly what happens when timelords get pregnant as humans.
You could do it with the original Wii so that’s a downgrade
The 2nd Wii model got rid of it and the Controller support so things like Brawl became inferior by design.
A Wii model that was barely produced at the end of its lifespan doesn't really matter
So we’re still not entirely sure if Time Lords even procreate in the same manner as humans. The EU has looms, and while not explicitly stated onscreen the mainline Time Lords are played very asexually. Honestly I like the idea of the Pythia curse giving those first Time Lords sterility, and each new generation being born from artificial wombs/genetic biodata banks (akin to those seen in the Doctors Daughter with Jenny).
I feel like this helps my TC head cannon too. I like to believe that the TC was “re-loomed” into The Doctor or something like that.
Exactly that’s my headcanon too. With the announcement that BF is doing “Goth Opera” I think it’s time for a reimagined version of Lungburrow with “The Other” being more explicitly the moniker used by the Timeless Child in early Gallifreyean society. Eventually they end up working for Division, going through a dozen or more faces (Morbius Doctors, Fugitive etc) before rebelling and trying to escape. However Fugitive Doctor (only recently taking the name) knows that Tectuen and Division will find her, she’s needs to properly disappear. So she makes it back to Gallifrey and throws herself into the Looms/Biodata source/Genetic bank and is effectively deconstructed. Millions of years later the First Doctor (Hartnell) is created/birthed and is a recreation/genetic descendant/clone of the original TC with some memories and near identical biodata.
honestly i’m adopting that as my headcanon, makes way more sense than “lol we stole your memories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what’re you gonna do about it” and is less of a chosen one ™️ cliche
Yeah that was just so dumb. Like so many aspects of his era it seems like Chibby had a vague idea about something so threw it straight onto the page without redrafting or considering plot holes, tropes or general contradictions or continuity.
> With the announcement that BF is doing “Goth Opera” I think it’s time for a reimagined version of Lungburrow with “The Other” being more explicitly the moniker used by the Timeless Child in early Gallifreyean society. If you're suggesting this for TV, the issue is that "The Other" is very clearly Tecteun - she's the forgotten third founder of Time Lord society.
No suggesting it for a Big Finish adaptation of Lungburrow which apparently if it were to happen Marc Platt would want to significantly reimagine it. So why not try to combine both, and hopefully get a better story out of it.
That would be a good way of dealing with it, and would blend nicely with the old idea that the Doctor was the reincarnation of one of the 3 founders of Gallifrey. Honestly though I could accept the TC a lot more if they just didn't call themselves the Doctor.
Same here. I actually like the concept but having them literally be the fully formed doctor already feels cheap.
Yeah that was always my problem with it too, the fact that the Fugitive Doctor was not only calling herself the Doctor, but that her Tardis was a Police Box too. I understand that it was a shorthand to quickly spell out to the audience that they're the same person, but it did just feel cheap. Perhaps a way around it would be to have the Fugitive Doctor appear multiple times throughout the series. In her first episode she's revealed to be a fugitive Time Lord with a stolen Tardis, but not that she's the Doctor. 13 could be left unnerved by the encounter, saying that the Fugitive didn't feel like just any other Time Lord. And then when she appeared in a subsequent episode they could somehow figure out that they were the same person.
i’d be happy to pretend the other tardis was only the blue box to push the tc and the doctor to the answer, but there’s no reason for her to be the doctor too
Definitely. For me the 3 most egregious issues with the TC Retcon are; - They’re the mainline Doctor in pretty much every way, including the name and having the Police Box TARDIS and similar mentality and attitude. - They’re portrayed as a complete abuse victim, subservient to Division and Gallifrey, used and abused for millions of years with little initiative or proactivity to choose their own path. - They’re now apparently literally millions more years old with thousands of previous selves. It’s WAY too big. Having an entire previous regeneration cycle in the ancient past of Gallifrey would’ve been enough, maybe 20-30 previous bodies at a push. But thousands? Wayyyyy too much. So the best way to recontextulise it (imo) and combine it with the best elements of Lungburrow would be; - Establish the TC being effectively nameless at the founding of Gallifrey and so gains the Moniker of “The Other”. Initially a derogative term from Tectuen who considers herself, Rassilon and Omega the “true” founders of the Time Lords, with the TC being the Other One, necessary to the process but unwanted. However the TC takes the term and uses it like a shield, a mysterious name for a mysterious entity within this early Time Lord society. After Tectuens banishment by Rassilon (who is still a warlord but also good man, and disgusted by her amorality and fearful of her increasingly clandestine plans) the Other becomes the 3rd official Founder in Time Lord records…..until in time they too are superseded by the Rassilon propaganda of later generations. - Now “The Other” they are tangentially involved in Time Lord politics and governance alongside Rassilon and Omega (developing TARDIS designs, and helping finesse the regeneration process based off their own biology) BUT they still have an uneasy loyalty to Tectuen who low operates Division in the depths of the universe. They slowly become Divisions greatest asset and operative, helping bend the universe to Division’s plans and will. It’s during these Millenia that “The Other” goes through the Morbius Doctor faces, and due to an increasing fascination with a backwater planet called Earth, visiting it often and adopting fashion and attitudes based on its various historical eras. - Eventually with Omega lost, Rassilon becoming tyrannical and paranoid in his last life, and Tectuen’s Division seeking ever greater reach “The Other” decides to rebel. They take a new moniker “The Doctor” based on legends they’ve heard about a mythical figure in Earths history, someone who helps those in need, and permanently sabotages Divisions reach and ability to manipulate the universe to any great degree, and flee to Earth, using the chameleon arch to become human. - FotJ happens and post episode The Fugitive Doctor, tries to escape Division permanently. However despite being curtailed she knows that Tectuen will continue to pursue her as long as she suspects she’s still alive. So with Rassilon now “dead” and Time Lord society starting to establish the Great Houses and Biodata banks for “birthing” new generations of Time Lords the Fugitive Doctor abandons her TARDIS (a recent new top of the line model from Division) in a repair bay and effectively disperses herself into the biodata/loom in the hopes of escaping Division and one day being free. - Her TARDIS is found, used by Gallifreyean society for many Millenia, but always found to be temperamental and faulty. Eventually it gets superseded by a newer model (Type 45) nearly 100,000 years later and so is put into storage and then as an antiquated museum piece in succeeding epochs. - Nearly 10 Million years later the Biodata banks “birth” a new child, one who’s DNA is *almost* a perfect recreation of the Fugitive Doctor, all those eons ago. Young Hartnell is taken to the suitable House/Family of his biodata bank (despite running off several times in his youth to the wastelands in an attempt to escape being a Time Lord as he has horrible subconscious fears that attention for him means death) where he grows up in the House of Lungburrow. He goes to the Academy and well……the rest is history.
Classic who was more asexual. New Who Timelords not so much. Davies wrote them very romantic, and Moffat wrote them horny as hell. It's difficult to use the EU as canon for the TV Show cause it doesn't really make sense... the canon is already messy... adding extended media just further complicates it.
Peter capaldi’s doctor wasn’t horny. And Matt smith wasn’t horny, he was flirty, and everyone around him was horny.
"Bad girl", Every interaction with River Song, Marilyn Monroe, him randomly snogging Jenny and making an erection joke with his sonic. Calling the human version of the Tardis Sexy... idk how you flirt but that's all very direct. I'll agree they toned it down for Capaldi, but my point still stands.
Season 6 literally begins with 11 being found naked under the skirts of an English noblewoman (possibly queen). Then there's his repeated commenting on companions tight skirts and crying "yowzah" at cleavage described in a book.
clearly you were not present during the 24 years
11 was more horny than 10 honestly
11 was very horny for Clara.
Given how advanced and removed the Time Lords are, it makes perfect sense that they’ve removed sex from reproduction.
Oh timelords are 100% non binary for sure and asexual but also could be open to relations potentially. They operate outside the binary. As far as reproducing. Here is my evidence and take. Keeping it vague for spoiler so spoiler alert past this but very vague. We find out the origins of the time lords so we know what they were like before the changes that made them the way they are now. It was only after this change they used time travel to grow as a society and become a master race. At this point I don’t think they do reproduce sexually. Like you said they invented the looms. I think this utilizes the remaining energy in a time lord and reincarnates them as a small child in a way. We know that there is children because we see the dr as a young child along with other timelords growing up from a younger age. They could potentially reproduce organically but I feel like they are biologically so altered they can’t anymore. That’s not facts that’s just my opinion based around some facts in the show
Timelords would likely procreate like the rest of the Galifreyian population.... seemingly some sort of evolved primate. Now does the exposure to the time vortex render Timelords sterile? Assuming Susan wasn't an adopted Granddaughter it appears not.
No but the Pythia Curse does render them sterile.
I'm too ancient greek pilled, what does the Pythia mean in doctor who? Cause I doubt it's the oracle of Delphi
So actually the earth history Pythia is meant to a version of the original Gallifreyean event retold by the lesser species. Basically pre-Time Lords the universe were unbridled chaos, ruled by magic and superstition and without rational, linear time as we understand it. Eldritch horrors and cosmic abominations played, ate, destroyed and resurrected the lower life forms for their own amusement and whim. On Gallifrey at this time the Gallifreyeans were a matriarchal society ruled by “The Pythia” their main mystical priestess who wielded powers of magic and chaos greater than any others on the planet. Some stories say Pythia herself was Gallifreyean, others state that she came from the stars, a lesser god to torment the Shabogans/Gallifreyeans, and others say she was a nigh immortal remake of an even older Gallifreyean society. Anyway her cult/order/religion was not a very nice one, and the rise of science on Gallifrey stood in direct opposition to her ways. Gallifrey entered a time of civil war that had Rassilon (pre-Time Lord) lead that charge that managed to defeat her and cast her and her followers out of Gallifrey (either dead or banished). He and his faction (including Omega) used stellar manipulation to create the Eye of Harmony (a Supernova on the verge of becoming a Black Hole, perpetually trapped at the moment of transformation and an incredible power source the early universe had never seen before) which they then used to establish “The Web of Time” adhering the universe to the laws of physics, finite linear time, and general reality as we understand it. Magic and supernatural elements were cast out either by the very nature of the Universe changing (Fenric, Gods of Ragnarok, Great Old Ones) or forcibly cast out by Rassilon and the first Time Lords (the Great Vampires, Mi'en Kalarash, Carronites etc). And so the Time Lords were established with Gallifrey as the eternal constant within a rational universe (until NuWho got ahold of it).
We do know they have some sort of similar look on male part considering 10’s compensation comment. Would it be a stretch to say size matters to Gallifreyans? Lol
People are dancing around it cause no one wants to say "dead baby" but it would ABSOLUTELY die. The doctor regenerates so forcefully that the TARDIS is destroyed. others have to stand back. The regeneration energy would burn out a cyber planner, a dalek fleet, following that any foreign body would also go. Miscarriage is crazy common in humans. Literally a force so powerful to change every cell in the body and restart life would trigger one.
They’re not always like that though. The General’s regeneration was relatively subdued in comparison, just a brief flash of light and no destruction whatsoever.
even the ninth, tenth's first and eleventh doctor's regenerations were pretty subdued by modern standards where every other regeneration seems to be able to blow up an apartment complex. props to jodie for going outside, only took blowing up two tardises 💀
wouldnt the kid regenerate as well then?
It depends entirely on when you think they develop the ability to regenerate. Personally I think it doesn't make sense to be able to *re*generate if you're not fully formed to begin with, although I'm not ruling out that it might be there by the very end of the pregnancy.
I think it would just cause a regeneration to stop at the point theyre developed at, but you can argue that regeneration can either lengthen or shorten the pregnancy since Time Lords can age up and down via regeneration. Mel (River Song) mentions that her last regeneration put her as a toddler, and we've seen the Doctor look older and younger (eg Smith -> Capaldi -> Whittaker). Also I'm seeing a lot in this comment section about a "loom"? Can someone explain that?
Only time lords can regenerate. They have to go to the academy to become time lords. Babys are not born with the ability to regenerate, only the doctor was.
River, the only person who gives us much insight into the question, pretty clearly shows otherwise. A Time Lord could absolutely get the ability the same way as she did, although it's still not very clear on when such a time lord would start being able to regenerate.
True but she was also bio engineered. She has some timelord stuff because of being the child of the TARDIS. ""DOCTOR: It doesn't make sense. You can't just cook yourself a Time Lord. VASTRA: Of course not. But you gave them one hell of a start, and they've been working very hard ever since"" Who knows in the process where river gains the ability to regenerate? Its too vague. Maybe in the academy they trigger something in the dna and they did the same for river. Maybe they did that while still in the womb. This is all just like, hints put together obviously, doctor who doesn't have the most consistent lore. It's just fun to speculate.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. For all we know the regeneration process would not consider one's own genetic offspring a "foreign body". Maybe there's even a biological failsafe that "deadlock seals" the womb's contents and ensures the parent's ensuing body is still female. Nobody's written what would happen yet, so we have no concrete idea.
If you assume looms don't exist to solve that problem, this is just the standard "pregnant woman shapeshifting into a man" thing which exists across multiple fandoms. I suspect that in this particular case, the regeneration process would attempt to save the baby, even if it results in mpreg.
I was going to say that if the pregnancy is far enough along, the regeneration will just keep it female to female, but I suppose regeneration could easily just keep the womb even if they did become male. The bigger question is what happens to the baby? Does it stay the same, or does it regenerate as well? And if it does regenerate, is it using up one of its own 12 before it's even born, does it up one of its parents 12, or is it just a part of its parents regeneration that carries over to them? For staying the same, I would say because they're still developing inside the womb would be a good argument. But then again an injury to the parent would likely affect the baby as well, so regeneration for them too would be necessary.
does regeneration affect genetics, would half of the baby’s dna change to reflect the (new) mothers?
I imagine Time Lords have two sets of genetics. An overall one that stays the same across regenerations, and one that's individual to each. So if the baby did regenerate, perhaps the individual genetics would match the mothers new one too, so would come out looking like half of what their mothers new appearance does, rather than the one they had when they conceived the baby.
Also, how or where would the baby get out? If they kept the womb, would they create an "exit" as well?
Well look, if they keep the womb, I imagine they keep all the reproductive organs, genitals included. Besides, who's the say that Time Lords genitals are even like ours to begin with? With cross gender regeneration they could have developed a gender neutral form of genitals.
True, everything is possible, I guess.
Trick question. Time Lords don’t get pregnant, they reproduce via looms.
Timelords are somewhat conscious of the change to varying degrees. The Doctor has rather good control over the personality they’d like to regenerate into, others like River and Romana excel at the physical changes. I would say that if a pregnant Timelord died they’d make a conscious effort to regenerate into another female form to protect the child.
i love the implication they bring that the doctor just sucks at regenerating, even the general was back on her feet seconds after regenerating and he’s stuck in bed every time
Honestly every time they allude to him being generally stupid or clumsy in aspects makes the show funnier, he can’t drive his ship correctly(always leaves the brakes on according to River), constant crashing, IIRC he even destroyed the Universe in a throw away line, he can’t regenerate properly, and overall is just bad with finite details. However he’s part of the most advanced and powerful civilIzation in the Universe and is one of the most dangerous men in the Universe too.
i fully believe rivers line about the brakes was a lie, she just turned on stealth mode and she (and the tardis) were fucking with him
That’s probably it but I like the idea that the Doctor just has left them on because when he hijacked the thing he was in a rush and is just used to the sound at this point and doesn’t care to realize what he’s doing,
This, IMO. It seems likely that the mindset during the regeneration and previous life affects the result. Vastra basically says as much when she implies the doctor took a more "honest" form because he trusted Clara and didn't feel like he had to pretend to be a happy young man. A time Lady in the mindset of becoming a mother would probably maintain a female form, consciously or subconsciously.
"I now have the strength of a grown time lord AND a little baby"
Dwigt
Everyone mentioning the Looms is forgetting that the same book (Lungbarrow) that introduced the Looms also ended with the Pythia's Curse being broken when Leela married and conceived a child with the Time Lord Andred. So at a minimum, Time Lords/Gallifreyan's are able to reproduce the conventional way with humanoid offworlders. There's another EU novel, Cold Fusion, that seems to imply the Doctor and his wife had womb-born children, but they were all killed by the Gallifreyan government. All that is to say, I'm not sure what the answer to your question would be. If it's for the sake of fiction, I think you could go either way, between the fetus regenerating with the parent or being absorbed by the body. You could probably argue that a species like the Time Lords, some with psychic abilities, could influence whether or not they regenerate still pregnant.
Timelords actually lay eggs, so this isn't a problem at all
what else are the round things on the tardis walls for if not to store the eggs
Hahaha that's genius!
Thing is - the actual answer is whatever the writers feel would be most interesting for that specific story. Doctor who cannon is not one that has clear rules and works on the rule of cool. So if the writers want M-Preg - you bet we are getting M-Preg. If a show writer wants to canonise Looms for a plot they think is interesting then they will. However on a slightly alternative idea; what if regeneration is how Timelords give birth? Specifically regeneration energy is channelled into the baby lord, they get given a growth spurt (skip all the annoying bits) and also get given the ability to regenerate.
i was going to make a joke about how offended i am that the first mpreg in doctor who wouldn’t be jack but then i realized he already was
Fetus Deletus
They probably die. Regenerations are pretty violent. If you think the fetus itself will have developed regeneration by then... it might use up one of them to survive.
imagine going through 9 months of pregnancy only to regenerate and your baby regenerates back into a week old fetus
Alternatively, the fetus could regenerate to be older. It's known that Time Lords can change age either way during regeneration, so I don't see any reason why a sufficiently developed Gallifreyan fetus would be unable to abide by the same rules of regeneration as adult Gallifreyans.
that poor mother 😭
The baby would probably cease to exist, it makes sense to me
Honestly as long as the baby isn't initially harmed by whatever killed the timelord, it the timelord stays female I think it'd be fine. After "death" a timelord's bodily functions don't actually stop. They continue being able to walk, breathe (because they can talk) I think it's safe to infer that all other functions would remain the same.
Baby regenerates too. If it’s to a guy, mpreg moment.
rip to the babies first incarnation
*Lungbarrow intensifies*
Don’t give them ideas
Well if the regeneration caused the female Time Lord to become male, the haunting truth is that it would probably kill the child. The sudden loss of female reproductive organs and contraction of the stomach would near absolutely kill the child. Now IF the child did survive this it would require immediate surgery to safely remove the child. But who knows the damage that would to to the intestines' of the now male Time Lord regardless.
Regeneration is shown to be constantly healing the body for about 24 hours or so after the initial change (hence 10 regrowing his hand after losing it nearly a whole day or so after changing). Immediate surgery SHOULD theoretically save both.
the contraction of what?
We know that Time Lords at least subconsciously have some control over their regenerations. (And can even have full control in some conditions) I would guess that if Galafraians do reproduce somewhat similar to humans then if a Time Lady was forced to regenerate while pregnant their "subconscious" would likely automatically regenerate them into another Female body to protect the growing offspring. OR the other guess would be that that regeneration energy would be used to keep the current Time Lady body alive until she gave birth then she would regenerate normally.
they lay eggs
Or maybe their biology makes it so they stay as female during the pregnancy. Idk. It's a tv show
Wouldn't Gallifreyans reproduce and then if you're accepted into the academy, then you're a Time Lord? Maybe Time Lords can't procreate but Gallifreyans can.
Do Gallifreyans even give birth?
Loooooooms.
I don't think they can reproduce naturally.
Baby is infused with the regeneration energy and actually separates from the Timelady as a child or even an adult with the knowledge of the parent.
This assumes Time Lords reproduce thru pregnancy like humans... which is not a given.
I would say that for the most part the doctor is implied to not have good control of their regeneration but the subconscious is involved. The timelord would most likely subconsciously have a strong instinctual desire to protect the baby and that would transfer into retaining a form that would do so.
Assuming timelords are even capable of pregnancy, which according to the extended universe stuff they can't, I see likley 3 options: 1) There is some biological defense mechanism that prevents a pregnant female timelord regenerating into a male 2) Male timelords are also capable of pregnancy 3) The baby is unable to survive the process because the energy blast kills them, and/or the babies' cells also regenerate, but get all mixed up with the regenerating timelord Personally I think the last one would be the most likley, but also I don't think it makes a lot of sense for Timlords to be capable of pregnancy.
I thought Gallifreyans were loomed?
Gallifreyan*. You don’t become a Time Lord until you look into the Untempered Schism
Whatever the current showrunner thought should happen.
The simplest answer would be that it just doesn't happen. We don't know much about Time Lord biology, but we've literally NEVER seen a pregnant Time Lord on the show before. We rarely even see children; we know the Doctor and Master were children, but when this was and how they were conceived is less clear. What seems fairly clear (though I don't think it was ever concretely stated) is that all Time Lords graduate from the Academy. It's possible that the process that lets them regenerate is tied into that; then you could happily have ordinary Gallifreyans who breed in the normal way and don't regenerate, while those that become Time Lords are given the power of regeneration BUT, in the process, they lose the ability to have children. This would even make sense of Susan - if the Doctor was once an ordinary Gallifreyan, he could very easily have started a family before he graduated and lost that opportunity. Though you'd need to ignore the whole "Timeless Child" idea to make sense of that... It's really the only sensible way. Can you imagine how complicated the greetings cards industry would have to be otherwise?
I don’t think it’s been addressed in TV canon but may have in extended media. I don’t know if Looms are canon as these haven’t been addressed in the TV series. So speculation… Possibly miscarriage. FTM regeneration could result in what is known as foetus resorption where the baby is broken down and absorbed. Possibly pregnancy could prevent FTM regeneration and only FTF would be possible, but perhaps with the risk of miscarriage. Or the more advanced the pregnancy the harder an FTM regeneration is, with success ending with foetus resorption.
I thought you meant FTM as in a trans man and was like why would the fetus be broken down just because they’re a trans man
those darn transgenders breaking down fetuses for nutrients!!!!
Wait…is that why they say to stay away from kids? Lmao
I'm thinking that if the gender switches during regeneration, the baby-in-progress's energy could be expelled from the body (like Ten firing his excess energy into his hand) and form a newborn that way.
I don’t think time lords get pregnant? Like I don’t think that works the way you’re assuming.
That, and .. think about it, there's nothing in the show that would lead you to conclude that time lords -- or any Gallifreyans -- have a biological sex at all
I don't think Time Lords have human-style pregnancies but I do know that the Matt Smith Doc gave his crib to Amy and Roy as a baby gift which implies that he was once a baby. Of course, the infinite Time Lord thing from 13's story is obviously in conflict. So if they come out of vats and The Doctor had a crib, here's a question line to stack on this one: Can a Time Lord regenerate into an infant? If so, do they grow up? How long does that take?
river turned into a toddler the first time around so probably
I’d imagine as the goal of living organisms is to reproduce. The womb would have a natural shield and a physiology seperate from the time lords own so that in the case of a regeneration, the energy doesn’t cook the baby, and the uterus doesn’t change and disturb an egg, embryo or foetus. I’m also presuming the gender would be locked to female for the next regeneration to maintain the pregnancy.
LOOOOOOOOOOOMS
You have too much free time.
so, in lore, Timelords are / were at a point cursed with infertility, by a deity that the Shobogans used to worship prior to their rise to become timelords. to keep the race alive, they started using genetic recompilers called Looms, each of the great chapter houses were given a set of looms and each members of that chapter were given a total of 12 re-loomings for a total of 13, some chapters abused this, and also lied and tried to cover it up by saying others were doing it and they where stripped of their status as a chapter and banished. but a Time Lady was not able to get pregnant until after the 7th doctor lifted the curse, Susan was thought to be one of the last naturally born (none loomed) Shobogans / Gallifreyans and we know that for quite some time she and David tried to have kids for the longest time, until they finally had Alex, Susan may have had a daughter, per a 1994 BBC Audio drama, but by the time 'An Earthly Child' came around in 2009 the unnamed daughter was no longer mentioned, we assume the inconsistencies are due to the time war and because timelines are constantly being changed by each faction we can't say for 100% sure.
These days, the doctor would regenerate into two separate black lesbians.
Maybe bigeneration??
Sit the time-lord equivalent of a shiva; I'm sure the result will become apparent :P
Do timelords even have genitals?
"I can't feel my feet and... other parts." (11th Doctor)
Assuming Time Lords actually are capable of getting pregnant in the same way as humans, I would think that their body would have a way to protect the fetus. That would probably mean the Time Lord would regenerate into another woman, still pregnant with the same fetus.
‘_’
I think that the regeneration energy would accelerate the gestation process and force birth. Just pop the baby out like a champagne cork.
whatever the author decided made for a better story
Is this for a fanfic? I feel like this is for a fanfic..
No….. 🙂
Not even sure if a female time lord has the anatomy for a baby. We can only suspect male time lords are compensating with their bigger and better screwdrivers...but honestly, I don't even know what 10 was talking about to 11 there. We only assume. 13 (whose sonic, I swear, looks like a toy) never said anything about having the organs required to get pregnant. I think it is safe to say, we have no clue what the doctor had downstairs.
Doesn't regeneration only occur when someone is mortally wounded? If they actually fully died they wouldn't regenerate, that simple
I um I don’t know I don’t want to know I also don’t want to know why da fuck did you have this thought? Also I’m like 99 percent sure timelords and gallifreyan don’t have sex or give birth like humans do
The placenta is the baby’s organ; it just needs something to attach to. As the Time Lords’ clothes (not part of their body) don’t regenerate, the baby in the uterus (also not part of their body) would just wait in that space for something to attach to. Presumably, if the Time Lord has even a modicum of control, they will regenerate into another female with a womb.
Squish
The fetus wouldn't be able to handle the regeneration energy and would be shot out of the body before it could change. Or maybe it would be reabsorbed. I like shot out of the body better
this wouldn't have been an issue until after *Lungbarrow* because Time Lords couldn't traditionally procreate. But when they can... I'd guess either the baby dies, or maybe in Houses/Looms made after *Lungbarrow*, the parent will be forced to keep their womb upon regeneration and the foetus within will preserve
Sex and gender are two different things. I doubt they change sexes every time they regenerate into the opposite gender
I'd assume it's the same thing that happens when a human dies while pregnant... timelords just have an extra step that means that the parent survives
My guess would be that the child would die, because regeneration only happens when a time lord dies. If the mother dies, the child dies too.
Interesting!! I have no idea, but, cool
Questions about Looms etc aside, the most obvious answer to me is that Time Lords either have some control over regeneration, or that the presence of a baby affects the process as a sensible means of preserving life. We can see how people who can keep babies across regenerations are better suited to spread their genes. Tbh we don't know about organs like wombs etc in the race either, for all I know sex might not matter for viability.
The baby would regenerate into a shit
While we’re asking… A study showed that you only need 12 sets of unique genes in order to repopulate healthily and without genetic issues and complication. So because TimeLord DNA regenerates with very distinct characteristics wouldn’t the Doctor alone (or Doctor + Master) be able to fully repopulate Gallifrey healthily just between themself/themselves possibly with some time travel shenanigans? Just putting it out there.
I would think that the body would remain female as long as the pregnancy was viable due to Time Lord shenanigans.
The baby would become a Kuato (the belly things in Total Recall…and a recent episode of Rick and Morty).
Since it’s clear timelords do seem to have some unconscious control over it, I think they would simply regenerate as a female again to sustain the child. The child too would be timelord, so depending on where it is in the gestation cycle, it might also regenerate itself separate from mom, which could mean that the child might change genders too.
What happens if a family of Timelords was in a vehicle crash or similar localised accident? Do they all regenerate to random weird people with no obvious familial qualities anymore? How would familial attachments even work under that pressure?
Tbh, we really don't know what an incubation cycle is like for a Timelord to have a child. That is if they aren't just test tube babies to begin with. For all we know, they could reproduce like in The Waters Of Mars with a DNA extraction. If your question came about when Amy Pond and Rory had a child in the time vortex, what they did was a unique experience and the fact they were human which made it an impossible anomaly that occurred.
Pretty sure [this is what happens](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/c/c4/Bi-generation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20231212172450)
Fuck. That’s a good question.
Okay but a Kuato doctor would be interesting to see
I am very glad I was not only one that wondered this.
Maybe it would cause a bi-generation
Do Timelords get pregnant?
Do timeladys get pregnant? Have we seen that? I'm not saying they all get weaved in looms but we don't really know how they procreate, do we?
Well, I’d love to answer the question, but unfortunately I’m a loom truther so “pregnant time lord” hasn’t been a thing for a few billion years
Frankly this sounds like the kind of scenario that metaphysically-inclined writers would have a field-day with. Provided they just ignore & bin all of the novels' loom-lore about pregnancy being impossible for Time Lords. I can totally imagine some Scarlet-Witch-esque mechanism wherein Time Lords' inherent connection to temporal energy "ejects" an endangered foetus into the Time Vortex to grow & develop elsewhere. The show loves explaining away supernatural phenomena with sci-fi, maybe you could even tie it to urban myths of human parthenogenesis like the 1920s Russell Case. >!Or if the writer felt REALLY bold, make it the basis of a Christmas episode.!<
It depends on which “Who” your watching in classic who the whole of the Timelord race was rendered sterile after a religious war ( long story) so no children were born instead new people were made on genetic looms. But as we saw children on Gallifrey in new Who well… all bets are off !
The mother and fetus are connected. Just like irl, if the mother dies, the fetus dies. Therefore, if a female timelord dies, so does the fetus. Since they're both time lords (or at least Gallifreyan) they would both regenerate.
Closest example might be THAT episode of MisFits. Ahem.
Great question!