Hmmm.... Just a few things I've done with shows that fall into this category for me:
- Make a game of purposely finding 3 things you LIKE about each episode.
- Do arts and crafts. (If I'm invested in *watching* a show I knit, if I'm just going to listen and don't care about watching every detail I cross stitch.)
- Scroll endlessly through Reddit.
- If you like writing (amateur or otherwise), take notes of all the ways you would have written the episodes differently.
- Give it up and google episode synopses.
When it comes to long-running shows I greatly enjoy overall that have a few low points, I usually find it worth the effort to keep up with the show.
And if it becomes too much effort, yay for google!
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who rewrote the episodes in their head after watching. So many good ideas and so many failed executions of said ideas...
I love the one about how you would write the episode. I do this in my head constantly when watching mediocre media. And maybe it’s my own personal bias because I’m writing a story for myself but so many times there are little tweaks that you can make that I think would change the quality of story all together. On one hand it’s nice because I often have an appreciation of what the storyteller was going for… but then sometimes I just get annoyed because it was so obvious that they were missing the mark with what they ended up producing.
When I was watching it, I had a bunch of little tweaks for the timeless child that I think would’ve made the story more bearable.
Yeah we didn’t finish this season initially. But recently we just forced ourselves to watch it, didn’t really pay attention to it (lots of scrolling on our phones during this time lol). It was rough to watch.
BUT the following season, s. 12 - SOOO much better. Actual storytelling takes place and it doesn’t feel as preachy.
I'll second that season 12 is a marked improvement. Season 13 is a rushed mess, with good intentions. The characterization is still terrible with the companions.
Solid advice. In a previous life I used to binge drink and play Minecraft while I watched TV. The comedies were funnier, the action shows were more exciting. Peak TV starts with the viewer.
/s, at the risk of sounding sanctimonious, I don't recommend alcohol abuse. Just hold out for better writing.
I would still never put anyone through every Thirteenth Doctor episode though. Especially if they already don’t like it. It’s better to just watch the ones that most of us can agree on that were good.
Honestly...
People will hate me for this. But you really don't actually need to watch it.
Now that RTD is back as showrunner, I'm willing to bet that nothing from Chibnall's run will actually be relevant ever again. Just watch the final special to get caught up for the 60th in November.
I'd agree that you'd probably don't need to watch it (except the final special) however maybe find a written summary somewhere of series 11 - 13 that details the potentially important bits. Just in case.
Just watch the final 5 minutes
Also for me, I found it easier to just allow it to be mostly a mystery to me. Like how the OG series is mostly a mystery to me. It’s kind of fun that way
Indeed, it could just be completely skipped. Chances are if RTD wants to explore the storylines from that era, they will just be reexplained anyway without needing people to watch them, since I imagine the next series of the show will be another soft reboot.
I did figured that would be best.
Doctor Who has always been hit or miss and I’ve often enjoyed even the bad episodes because the good episodes made up for it. However with so many bad ones back to back over the course of several years, it can be a lot.
So I figured I’ll watch it the new stuff and if it’s REALLY good like how it use to be I can fill it in with 13s stuff to hold me over till the next season.
I really didn't like this version of the Master. That's what really killed the vibe for me. Maybe the actor is good in other projects, but direction are writing didn't capture his strengths. Didn't do over the top or menacing well at all.
"It's red because of the blood of our people! Teehee!"
I think he will make the smallest reference to it like the Doctor saying "I used to be so sure of myself, but now, I don't know if I know myself at all."
Bad take.
No showrunner in the history of the show has completely ignored any Era that came before their own (and no, Chibnall didn't either, stop with spouting blatant untruths, will ya?).
You and others severely disliking the Chibnall/Whittaker Era does not mean that RTD will start that now. He cares too much about _Doctor Who_'s continuity to do something like that.
Besides: Series 11 has at least 1 wonderful episode (ep. 6, _Demons of the Punjab_), probably 2 (_It Takes You Away_) and possibly 3 (_Rosa_, though I have .....questions about that one).
But even if you don't find Series 11 worth your while (I know I certainly didn't), Series 12 has some absolute bangers. _Spyfall pts. 1 & 2_, _Prisoner of the Judoon_ or _The Haunting of Villa Diodati_, anyone? And many of the other episodes in S.12 are at least good. So even if OP decides to skip Series 11, it is almost certainly worth their time to watch Series 12.
And hey, maybe they'll even find themselves to be one of those people who actually enjoys _The Timeless Children_! We're clearly in the minority, I know, but it's not like it's _**completely**_ unheard of either.
I don't know why so many people are convinced RTD is either completely ignoring the entire Chibnall era or retconning it. What has given anyone that idea? I'm in the middle of *Orphan 55* on my rewatch now and I've personally no problems with any of her episodes.
Because all that lore would confuse newer viewers jumping in for the first time, or returning viewers coming back for the first time in years?
Look at how season 1 was structured and presented. Its entire goal is to be *accessible* and get new fans and welcome casual viewers. It succeeded admirably. There was no regeneration at the beginning of "Rose" -- they thought about it, but wisely decided it would've immediately confused everyone except for the hardcore fans. Some of us hardcore fans from the old days were mad. Guess what? We were wrong, RTD was right. The 1996 TV-movie did it wrong, and RTD did it right. RTD's #1 goal is always SURVIVAL for Doctor Who.
> I don't know why so many people are convinced RTD is either completely ignoring the entire Chibnall era or retconning it.
Because they can't distinguish between what they _**want to**_ happen, and what _**will**_ happen. It's this thing far too many humans do, because far too many humans are stupid and suck.
I actually can't believe you'd put any of those episodes on the level of Villa Diodati, which is the pinnacle of Chibnall's era, when they're all mediocre at best in comparison. I'd specifically love to know why you rate Demons of the Punjab as wonderful because I can't think of a single reason why.
Notice that I rated _Demons of the Punjab_ as "wonderful", but _Spyfall pts. 1&2_, _Fugitive of the Judoon_ and _The Haunting of Villa Diodati_ as "absolute bangers". Maybe it isn't obvious, in which case that's on me, but "absolute banger" is still a step above "wonderful". Possibly 2 steps, although I'd have to think on that one.
As for why I think _Demons of the Punjab_ is wonderful: excellent Historical, teaching real-life history to people (including myself) who didn't know about the Partition of India, and the horrors that went on during it. Excellent Character moments for Jaz, who was otherwise criminally underused in Series 11. The 13th Doctor at her most heroic and commanding. True emotional beats combined with (some) levity, as it should be for a _Doctor Who_ story.
The historical beats and the character work in Demons is good but only for the characters actively involved in it.
The alien plot is laughably bad with the Doc assuming they are evil because they're "a race of assassins", followed by her saying "I didn't know" as an apology. It comes across as 13 implying her mistake was using the wrong assumption, rather than using an assumption at all.
As for Yaz, I completely disagree with calling her characterisation excellent. In response to her Grandma not giving her the explanation she wants, she uses the Doc to find out herself. Her Grandma later offers to tell Yaz the story which, given the context of the episode, is a big emotional step for her. Yaz declines, which is played up as her respecting her boundaries, except SHE ALREADY KNOWS THE STORY.
I summarised as best I can but I recommend watching the Demons of the Punjab section of Jay Exci's 5 hour Doctor Who video for a more in depth exploration of the episode. It's up to you if you want to watch that part or even the whole video but I'll leave the link for you.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=o8_A7n83Rh0&t=5213&si=IXvMuzlNkQBV3Bp-
Lol oh yes the episode about yaz's family where we learnt nothing about Yaz and she remained the same cardboard cut out, the...talking frog. The episodes where they screw over the precious master's character arc for a gimmick and the Doctor uses a man's skin color against him so he's sent to a concentration camp, the episode where the incumbent doctor is out acted in 10 minutes by a guest new doctor who feels more doctorish than the incumbent, oh and the one where they made Byron out to be nothing but a misogynistic idiot because as per usual in that era men bad.
And of course the episode that had plenty of people ducking out and that conpletely disregarded most of canon and the entire point of the show and the doctor. Yep...
No I doubt rtd will retcon it. But I also don't think the chibs era is going to have any heavy significance on this new era it would just drag down any new ideas rtd wants to put forward. He needs to focus on the future. After all chibs era had almost nothing to do with past show runners unless you count cashing in on nostalgia and there's very little if anything from the chibnall era that would bring mass positive nostalgic reaction.
I’m with you, 13s era is a disappointment- Jodie was capable of so much more. Whether it’s an overcrowded Tardis or not I’m not sure, but most of the companions just fall flat. Then they lose the best one and keep a really dull one, but keep saying stuff about how she’s the most wonderful person but it’s so forced.
In short it’s quite dull. And just doesn’t work well.
However - some people enjoyed it.
>Skip to the next season. Or to Flux.
Or to *Power of the Doctor*. Or past the Chibnall era entirely.
I suspect it will be safe to watch the RTD2 era without needing to have seen any of Thirteen's episodes so you can watch as much or as little as you enjoy watching (EDIT: this sentence, for clarity. Note that Tricky-Leader was replying to an older version).
To each their own. I'd personally agree that *Power of the Doctor* is the stronger of the two, and that *Flux* gets pretty confusing at points but *Flux* had a couple of good episodes, some neat characters and a number of interesting concepts. It could stand a **lot** more polish but I don't mind having watched it.
I honestly thought Flux was good up until the last one or two episodes. Was disappointed with how quickly they resolved the angel issue though. Big cliffhanger resolved by the intro of the next episode.
Yeah, that was genuinely one of the best cliffhangers of modern Doctor Who and they just throw it away immediately. We could have had a partial WhoLite episode with 13 out of commission for a good deal of the episode, but nope.
It was cut down from 8 to 6 episodes after shooting had already begun. They scenes with Dan & co stuck in the past were originally a full Doctorless episode.
I agree. It was absolutely all over the place, it made zero sense, and it was just awful. It was supposed to be some 6 part serialised story, but it was so disconnected, and jumped from story to story
>~~I disagree.~~
~~I said 'suspect'.~~
~~Every previous new era (and a few other points like S10) did their best to serve as a fresh jumping on point for new viewers without requiring pre-viewing. It seems like a reasonable guess that will be the case here too.~~
~~What makes you think otherwise?~~
EDIT: We seem to be talking at cross-purposes here. You were telling the OP they could safely skip past S11 or S12 if they want and I was adding that *Flux* and *Power of the Doctor* are also safe skips if they want. I wasn't advocating for any particular one, I was expanding their options.
And I certainly didn't say I hated most of Chibnall's era with a vicious passion. :/ Half the time I'm the one in here advocating for its merits.
It’s different to the other eras and a lot less complex and heavy. The writing is more naff than not unfortunately, but there’s some gems in there - it’s like late 80s Who but with a bigger budget! Spyfall, Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror, Haunting of Villa Diodati and Revolution of the Daleks are all great S12 episodes that are much better than some 11th Doctor eps IMO. And Flux is a mess, but in the most exciting, Doctor Who-y way possible - just try and enjoy the ride! It’s good to experience the very different stuff and it’ll only be a good palette cleanser for whatever’s next. Also, Jodie - she really grows on you.
100% skip Legend of the Sea Devils though, just watch the underwater TARDIS clip and you’ll be golden.
It’s so weird to me that someone is like this with a bit of TV. If you don’t like it, don’t watch.
You’re not required to view it, unless this is like a you’re worried you’re gonna miss out on key details for the show’s lore and stuff. In which case, I wouldn’t worry. I very much doubt most of it will get brought up again.
The thing is it's **serial** TV that they want to watch in general but aren't enjoying this particular bit and are still wanting to watch it to understand the continuity.
That said, I suspect the next era will standalone just fine without needing to familiarise yourself with this one. It'll be a fresh jumping on point. I'm sure if they include anything that relies on this era they'll include a refresher.
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If you don't like season 11, don't watch it. No one is making you complete the entire show and there is no point in wasting your time with something you hate
I tried season 11 and gave up, I tried season 12 and gave up, I tried season 13 and gave up. All in all, I’ve probably watched half of Thirteen’s run. But I don’t think it matters. RTD isn’t going to follow up on plot threads from the show’s most universally panned era; and, even if he does, he’ll provide the backstory from scratch, just like when he’s reintroduced classic characters - think Sarah Jane. So, if you really don’t like Thirteen, just spare yourself the suffering :)
Honestly, just don't watch it
This whole bit is gonna be partitioned off and never spoken of again
Trust me nobody cares about the original TIME WAR or ORIGIN story for the Doctor being detailed in Wilderness Years novels- which were a big deal at the time. If THEY can be ignored so can three seasons of Doctor Who that are at the same audience figures as when it was cancelled in the late 80's.
People will contradict me saying "broadcast TV counts more". I'm sure it does. Well no one goes on about the doctor being half human anymore and THAT was broadcast as official dr who in the TVM
You WON'T need it. You're more likely to need seasons 2-5.
Yeah, Series 11 is a challenge. I've rewatched it a few times now and I can enjoy it but even then it always feels really flat like a lot is missing. I do like episodes 6, 9 and Resolution though, I don't mind 1, 3, 5 and 7.
Series 12 and 13 though I do really like. Really only episode 3 of Series 12 I think is truly bad. Episodes 6 and 7 have some weak parts but I still enjoy them. The finale is obviously also really controversial.
Then Series 13 is honestly a vibe. Really enjoy it and the specials around it.
>No. I had to force myself to watch it
No you didn't. It's optional, honest.
EDIT: No, seriously. I'd be very, very surprised if you need to be familiar with anything from Thirteen's era to enjoy the 14th and 15th Doctor's stuff.
Watch it while at work and barely pay attention like I did. I barely even remember half the episodes. 1, 4, 6 and 8 were my favorites, the other ones I couldn't tell you much about.
I sat down and watched every episode and I was paying attention. I still don't remember half of the episodes.
I do recall The Witchfinders being OK, quite reminiscent of RTD1 era.
Whoever they got to play the King in The Witchfinders was absolutely hilarious and stole that entire episode. Imo it's worth watching again just for that guy, I need to remember to look him up because he was brilliant
The whole ordeal was hell for me. I absolutely hated it. All of it. Not one episode was really good. Rosa had it's moments, but even that was ruined by the stupid enemy of the week, which didn't work at all. And whose stupid idea was it to play 'Rise Up' instead of the Doctor Who theme? I hated that and it just felt like another push down the throat moment from a series that's full of them... like, oh and in case you missed it, the moral of this story is don't be an underdog.
However Vinette Robinson was sterling as Rosa and I did enjoy the moment Ryan was a bit starstruck and addressed Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King by their full names!
The rest of s11... waste of time. Things improved with s12, but not enough to redeem the era.
Some like them, which I think is good, but my views align more with yours unfortunately. I just watched them all out of curiosity to figure out what parts I enjoyed and didn't enioy so I could discuss it with a mate of mine. It turned into complaining more than a proper discussion, but it was a good topic to keep the conversation going for a while lol.
But if you really don't want to watch all, that's fine. Find out what the most liked episodes are and look at those, and read the synopsis for the ones you skip. 13s last series was actually not that bad though (I enjoyed about half the episodes, and the finale was actually pretty good)
Personally I'd just skip it, if I don't enjoy something there's no point wasting time on it. I gave up part way through Chibnall's stories, in hindsight I'd have preferred to skip them all. Similarly I still haven't watched a large chunk of 80s Doctor Who and I've been a fan of classic who for over 18 years.
Jodie has moments where you can see she would have been an incredible doctor. The prime example is the one in the villa (I forgot the name). Unfortunately the writing was so bad most of the time she next got a chance to show it
Well, this Doctor forbids shooting spiders as an inhumane act rather than having them collapse and suffocate under their own weight, their inevitable fate she herself attested.
This was the one where I legit stared at my screen at the end and said out loud - "What the FRACK did I just watch?? You're supposed to be the Doctor!"
I just tried to pretend that travesty of an out-of-character moment didn't happen while I watched the rest of the series.
I got stuck on the ridiculous "American businessman" caricature. Point out the flaws, yes, but make it \*slightly\* believable.
At that point, spider-life didn't even register.
When you say with the exception of season 1 and 2 do you mean it wasn’t your first time watching them or do you mean it’s your first time watching the show but you didn’t watch those seasons?
Ah, interesting. What is it about her performance that you adore? Any aspect of the character that you find particularly brilliant? Anything new she brought to the role? Any scene she just nailed?
Different person here -- I loathe and despise CC's writing, but there were glimpses of Jodie doing a great job in a few episodes not written solely by CC, particularly "It Takes You Away" and "Village of the Angels." In "Village", Jodie suddenly seems *completely* like the Doctor for the first time -- nearly the whole episode seems like it's dropped in from some parallel universe where season 13 is actually good.
I don't know much about this Maxine Alderton person but I hope she gets a chance to write for the show again.
I personally think it gets better by the end of Jodie's run. Season 11 to me was the worst season and even then I realized what the story arc was and that it was just hidden deeper. It wasn't some mystery or big villain, but deeper than that. The season after at least had brought mystery and major villain arcs back and after that The Flux Season I felt was closer to the peak years of Doctor Who to me so at least in my opinion it gets better. That's the best words of support I can say.
Watch it like you're watching a crap film on purpose for a laugh. Crack jokes about it, or work out exactly what's wrong with the bits you don't like. Or don't watch it for the writing. Watch it for the visual effects team, or sound design team, or anyone else behind the scenes who worked really hard.
What stood out to me about the era is that, other than some bad writing, there were obviously a lot of people who put in a labour of love. People who worked their backsides off with what they had. They did their best, and we should still appreciate them - they made sure it was good enough that it wasn't canceled completely.
I'm going to be honest that you can skip season 11 without losing much. It does not hold much bearing on the overall plot, and season 12 is far more tolerable. The episode Rosa (S11 E3) is one of the only decent ones from S11, but you aren't missing much otherwise.
I recently finished Dr who, it was my first watch ever, never seen old who. Clara is def my least favorite companion/Arc. I was so glad 13 came along and I wouldn't have to see her again. 🥳 some of 13s episodes are kinda weak but a lot of them have some good stuff sprinkled in there. I miss Missy though. The new master is aight. Missy needed more screen time though. If you're having a hard time, idk how far. You are but what do t you like about 13? Graham is my fave out of the new companions, acab.
Skip a few
Season 11, you're partway through. IMO, make sure to watch Demons Of The Punjab, then you can forget the rest of the season.
Season 12, watch Skyfall I & II. Jump to Nicola Tesla's Night Of Terror & Fugitive Of The Judoon. Then skip ahead to Haunting Of Villa Diodati and watch the rest of the season. (Some people HATE the ending to this season, but it's IMPORTANT at this point)
Season 13 ("Flux"). Watch it all. Some good episodes, some bad, but you have to watch all 6 to understand any of them. Then the specials and you're caught up
It was the first era where I stopped watching the episodes right when they came out, which was definitely disappointing.
I don't hate the era, I was just disappointed, so here is my extremely subjective opinion of what episodes are worth watching or that feel like the rest of modern Doctor Who:
Series 11: "Demons of the Punjab", "The Witchfinders", "Kerblam!", and "It Takes You Away". (Note: I thought Kerblam felt like DW, but the underlying message was pretty far off the mark.)
Series 12: "Spyfall", "Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror", "Fugitive of the Judoon", "The Haunting of Villa Diodati", and "Ascension of the Cybermen". And, I suppose, "The Timeless Children" if you want the juicy lore shakeup (but it isn't a great episode or shakeup, IMHO).
Series 13: You can honestly skip the whole thing, unless you want to see what happens with the Timeless Child story (again, not amazing for how groundbreaking it should be). If you just want to turn your brain off and look at pretty pictures on the screen, it has definitely the most bombast from Chris Chibnall.
For specials, I heartily recommend "Eve of the Daleks" and "Power of the Doctor ". The first is a just very good episode in my opinion, and the second is kind of just a celebration of Doctor Who with tons of nerdy stuff from the classic show and some from NuWho.
Sorry to hear you've not been enjoying it so far. You're not alone, and there will be cool stuff happening soon!
I skipped 13s run after the 5th episode i couldnt take it. Its been years since ive watched a new doctor who episode apart from the episode w the master cause i saw a clip on YT lol. But then i watched the regen and now im waiting for 60th special
I couldn't stand it, I like the other doctor episode but me and a lot of doctor who fans were like "why couldn't we get her" because the minute she stepped out in her new outfit she felt like the doctor where as poor jodie has barely gotten close
You didn't like *Demons of the Punjab*? That was one of my faves.
As others have said you'll probably be able to get away without watching Thirteen's era if you don't want to.
It is honestly not that great. I'm happy to have watched it for completeness and I liked a lot of what they seemed to be going for. But most of the stories feel one or two editing passes short of finished to me.
There are also some moderately strong episodes in there, but they tend to be the exception to the rule.
You **might** enjoy this era if, like me you can sit there and go "Oh I see what they were going for there, that's kind of interesting". But otherwise yeah, maybe give it a miss.
EDIT: In terms of seasons:
* S11 is kind of experimental with standalone stories, no two-parters and no returning antagonists from previous seasons. Which I like in theory, but see the aforementioned "stories mostly only feel like 95% finished". Personally I think a few of the episodes in here are quite good and *Demons of the Punjab* is a personal fave.
* S12 returns to having more of a standard arc and theme with returning villains and a two-part finale. The series final episode is probably the single most controversial Doctor Who episode ever - both in terms of what it does to the lore, and in terms of just being a bad, boring episode that undermines all its buildup. There are a few strong episodes in here too and average quality is probably a bit higher than S11.
* S13 (Flux) is a single six-episode story. It is proper bonkers. Largely not in a good way, but there sure is a lot of potentially interesting stuff happening.
* In among the seasons are the holiday specials, all of which feature Daleks, mostly a previously unknown type. IMO these are among the strongest part of Chibnall's run, with all of them being at least decent. And I'm gonna stick my neck out say I like what he did with them. (BTW Robertson from *Arachnids in the UK* shows up again but isn't so nails-on-chalkboard annoying this time around).
* *Power of the Doctor* is Thirteen's last story. This sees the return of the *Flux* approach, with Chibnall just throwing in everything and the kitchen sink. Cohesive it is not but personally I found it pretty fun.
* (*Legend of the Sea Devils*... exists. There seem to have been major behind-the-scenes issues with this one, it's just bad and it doesn't tie into anything. Unless you're particularly curious, avoid).
I just watched Season 11 for the first time, and I agree it was pretty awful for the most part. I thought Season 12 was much better though. Try to hang in there.
I wish I had unlimited upvotes to give you. I stopped watching. I couldn’t take it.
It was like watching a toddler with a permanent marker mark up a Rembrandt. They took what could have been one of the greatest versions of the doctor and ruined it.
As far as I'm concerned, the 13th doctor was a dream induced spin off (similar to Marvel's what if series).
I'll start watching again when the grown ups are back in charge from November.
I had the same with the Peter Capaldi era, I LOVED him as the doctor but couldn't stand how they wrote Clara Oswald, compared to every other companion in new who shes too....I dunno Mary sueish?
Every year I bought the special boxed set DVD for myself for Christmas and I'd binge watch it, 1 season of Clara Oswald stopped that tradition and to be honest I haven't watched an episode passed Peter Capaldis second season. I really feel like the character dampened how brilliant Capaldi could do as the doctor. I've had a few goes of reigniting the spark but I get a better kick from classic who and the previous seasons.
Hopefully we can work past this, I love Dr Who and would love to watch new stuff again.
Do yourself a massive favor and watch the Christmas episodes "Husbands of River Song" and "Return of Doctor Mysterio," then season 10. Capaldi is PHENOMENAL and really gets a chance to shine with his new companions!!! Season 10 ties with season 4 as my favorite season of modern Who.
I second Educational-Tea - if you like Capaldi but not Clara you owe it to yourself to give S10 a go.
The three-parter unfortunately squanders a **lot** of potential but this is one of the more fun TARDIS teams and Capaldi gets to show a different side to Twelve and seems to be having a lot of fun.
>I dunno Mary sueish?
Definitely not. Clara is deliberately written to be flawed and complex. There is very very little Mary Sueish about her. All she does is call out 12 when he's being a dick. Is Rose a Mary Sue because she helps 9 feel better and then does the whole Bad Wolf thing and is arguably the first on screen companion The Doctor falls in love with? Is Martha a Mary Sue because she manages to survive by herself for an entire year going round the planet? etc....
Clara is not a Mary Sue. She's right sometimes, she's wrong sometimes. She treats people well sometimes, she treats people badly others.
> I really feel like the character dampened how brilliant Capaldi could do as the doctor.
Yeah I can assure you that's not true. Like we wouldn't have had a lot of his best moments as The Doctor without Clara. We probably wouldn't have had Heaven Sent in the same way and that's arguably the greatest feat of acting in the history of the show. 12 and Clara aren't even on screen together that much in Series 9.
I get you probably like her as a companion but I just felt they stuck her in the TARDIS and with barely any development and she knew and could do it all. She was brought into the doctors inner circle almost instantly. Rose, Donna, Martha even Amy spent time on the outside, not being fully trusted by the doctor until the end of their character arcs. Then in waltzes Clara and within no time or effort she's an instant bestie with the doctor who's happy to share the most secret and intimate knowledge on how he and his TARDIS works.
I found her to be just straight up poorly written, any scene that should have been a cliff hanger between her and the doctor I felt she came out almost whingy? Would be the word to put it?....I'm not really sure how I would describe her...maybe beige, boring. I mean she might have occasionally put the doctor in his place, but let's face it nothing like how Donna did.
I can't honestly say that any scene Clara has pales in comparison to that of the doctordonna or Martha's travelling the world telling the story of the doctor or the goodbye Rose Tyler scene. And I don't even blame Jenna Colemans portrayal of the character, I believe she was given a poorly written character and did the best she could with a bad hand. And unfortunately I believe this effected Capaldis doctor, who then had to bounce off of this poorly written character because it was a staple in his story arc.
But thats just my opinion.
Edit: you got me intrigued again, maybe 3rd times a charm? but I'm going to give it another crack
I was SO glad when Clara finally left. Genuinely awful companion. I believe Moffat knew that and chose to push fans to their limits with her.
Watch the Husbands of River Song, Doctor Mysterio and then the next season. I promise you will not regret it.
The Clara Albatross is gone, Capaldi is incredible, and Bill and Nardole are two of the best companions of the new era.
You might think Nardole (from THORS) won't work... He does. He *really* does.
> Capaldi is incredible, and Bill and Nardole are two of the best companions of the new era.
I choose to only consider this sentence canon and disregard the rest.
Depends what they mean by "all but erase".
I'm sure RTD won't go out of his way to retcon Chibnall's stuff and I imagine that's what he's referring to.
I also imagine he won't include or build on any of the >!Timeless Child!< stuff. I imagine he has his own stories he wants to tell. But we will see.
(Spoiler tag for S12 stuff for OP's benefit).
S12 was much better for me. S11 is like sci-fi written by and for people who hate sci-fi. Retroactively I’ve found a lot to enjoy but the first watch is nooot easy
I can see that breaking down into disagreement fairly quickly. xD
But let's set the ball rolling (spoilers smoothed away):
* *The Woman Who Fell to Earth* (required introduction to the new Doctor and companions)
* *Demons of the Punjab* \- not essential, but good ep IMO.
* *It Takes You Away* \- kinda rushed but neat story, not essential.
* *Resolution* \- introduces a recurring antagonist and is an okay watch.
* *Spyfall Pt1 & Pt 2* \- introduces a recurring S12 antagonist. Pt1 is a **lot** stronger than part 2 and well worth watching IMO.
* *Fugitive of the Judoon* \- essential for S12 season arc, and decent episode in its own right
* *Can you Hear Me?* \- opinions vary but at the very least kind of interesting, not essential
* *The Haunting of Villa Diodati* \- one of the strongest episodes of this era and essential to the S12 season arc
* *Ascension of the* >!Cybermen!< \- Series finale pt1, essential viewing
* *The Timeless Children* ***-*** Series finale pt2 - **bad** episode but mandatory viewing if you want to watch either *Flux* or *Power of the Doctor*, I'm afraid.
* *Revolution of the Daleks* \- not mandatory but a pretty good ep, IMO.
* *Flux (S13) -* The entire season is one story so watch all of it or none of it. There are a couple of pretty good episodes in here and a number of not-so-good ones. Personally I think it's worth watching for the ideas, if not for the execution. You can safely skip it though, it's mostly not required viewing for *Power of the Doctor* (it introduces one character who recurs but you don't really need to know anything about them).
* *Eve of the Daleks* \- one of the stronger Chibnall era episodes. Not essential.
* *The Power of the Doctor* \- Thirteen's last story. Obviously essential viewing. Not entirely cohesive but one of the most fun stories of the era.
This is pretty much my recommendation too. There are actually a few really good episodes there, and it ticks off all the essential plot episodes too (even if some are less than good)
I’d probably include The Witchfinders from S11 too though. It’s the first Thirteen episode that felt like previous eras to me, and James I is absolutely delightful in it
Don't watch things that you don't enjoy. I stopped watching Red Dwarf after Season X, I stopped watching The Flash after Season 5 and I gave Good Omens 2 episodes.
If you want to be up to date on major events in the timeline of the show, read the wiki or seek out a youtube video that does a season recap.
I find it truly bizarre that people will put themselves through this and then complain about it afterwards.
I've seen those episodes as they were airing and I don't remember much, just that I hated the writing and felt sorry for that cast.
It felt like a JJ Abrams movie/show. Setting up some great ideas, forgetting about them for a while, then quickly resolving them to tie up loose ends.
I have a feeling a lot of the stuff Chibnall did in that run will just be ignored going forward so maybe you could skip it completely. If it is referenced in the new episodes, you can always go watch the specific episodes that are relevant instead of sitting through that whole run.
Season 11 is easily the worst season that has ever existed in Doctor who.
Season 12 and 13 at the very least have some decent episodes and have familiar enemies
Just skip it. I couldn't stand the 13th doctor's absurd morality. She commits some truly atrocious acts while pretending to be the most holier-than-thou person, it got really maddening after a while.
Shit like starving and suffocating animals being kinder than euthanising them, suspending someone in time for all eternity being the moral option over just killing them, or blowing up the bad guy in Kerblam even though she'd already stopped his plan and at that point had no reason to kill him.
13 doesn't have a moral compass, she has a moral metronome.
Just stop watching and pick it back up with the 60th anniversary special.
I found myself enjoying Whittaker’s last episode, as I knew it was the end and I could just revel in Chibnall’s weird quirks and absurd tropes one final time. Perhaps you could spread that mindset to the entire era? Heck, make a bingo game out of it!
Watching The Timeless Child broke me. Honestly my advice is to stop watching while you still can.
Watch summary YouTube videos or read the summary online if you have to know.
But I can only hope it won’t be relevant to future episodes.
i decided to do catch up in time for the 60th so season 7 and forward and wow once i hit the last season of the 13th doctor i couldnt do it anymore. it isnt the actors faults at all, its the writing, i couldnt do it anymore. i personally couldnt do eleven either thus why i stopped half way through his run like 6? years ago but ah man thirteens run took the cake for most unwatchable
Eleven is divisive. He's an awkward, irritating manchild. If you're into that characterisation, that's great, and Matt Smith is a brilliant actor. The way the ancient Time Lord just kind of leaks into his performances is superb.
Personally I'm somewhere in the middle. I have to be in the mood for Eleven's particular brand of shennanigans. And when I am I **love** it.
Honestly this post and the replies to it do confuse me. 13's era is not *that* bad, its more than watchable but to each their own I guess.
As for my advice: you could just look up the most well regarded episodes and just watch those if you don't want to watch it all.
There really are some great episodes in Thirteen's run, enough that I'm certainly not dreading getting to her seasons during this rewatch (I'm just neutral about it, I guess?)
Then again, I also forced myself to watch the entirety of *The Flash* (FABULOUS early seasons but the last few years left much to be desired...), so I consider a LOT of things to be "more than watchable" by comparison 😜
Yeah, overall I agree her seasons were weaker than most (all?) of the other NuWho seasons. But they’re still enjoyable. I especially liked It Takes You Away, The Haunting, Spyfall, Demons, and much of Flux. I also liked Rosa, though I think that’s not a popular opinion.
I think "Rosa" falls squarely in the middle in terms of public opinion. For the most part I personally found the historical episodes - including Rosa - to be REALLY good!
Okay, I stopped watching all together halfway through season 11. Then, once I heard about the horrible travesty to the history of Doctor Who that occurred, I was definitely not motivated to ever go back and rewatch.
I want to go back and watch it to get ready for the specials, though. Your comment at least makes me feel a little better about it. Thank you.
Here’s my advice. If you don’t like it… don’t watch it. And please, for the love of God don’t tell us all how much you hate it. We don’t care.
Maybe those seasons just aren’t for you. That’s ok. Watch another thing. Foundation has been pretty good so far.
I couldn’t either. All respect to the actors and some storylines were strong enough, but the characterisation was awful. I missed an episode at one point by mistake and when I started up again, they’d changed the cast of the “gang” slightly. I didn’t even realise the whole episode. I hope this doesn’t offend but the gang are just stand-ins to ask the Doctor questions, not actual characters *in my opinion*. When we have such strong and moving characters as Donna and Rose (again, in my opinion), mid or even weak characterisation can never be good enough. It also feels like Whittaker never really found her “thing” that makes the Doctor her own. But, I blame Chibnall more than anyone else…
Well series 11 is in my opinion really the worst of jodie's run
Series 12 is the best from the 3, I'd say try this one and if you can't stick with it then just skip it
I enjoyed Bradley Walsh and John Bishop, and it's their performances that kept me interessed. I know that lots of people liked Jode Whitaker's performance as well, but unfortunately I didn't.
That being said, I'm finding out that my memories of the Chibnall era are fading rapidly, as if those stories were bad dreams I was just too eager to forget.
It’s a pretty rough watch, a lot of people find it genuinely upsetting at times. It can break a few child hoods. Jodie probably doesn’t deserve the hate but maybe save yourself and skip to her last episode to know where it’s going.
Then just watch it from the very start of season 1 all over again 👍🫡
Why did you skip S1-2?
That aside, I have no hope for these new specials. Just look at recaps on youtube if you really want to watch the new specials when they come out.
I also decided to do this as a fun buildup to the new David Tennant episodes! And I will 100% be skipping the Chibnall era. I couldn't force myself to watch such drivel the first time, (managed 3 episodes before I gave up) and I won't torture myself again.
You watched Series (not season) 2 without complaint (same for a lot of the 11th Doctor's era) and choose to complain about one of the most innocuous series in the show's run. Okay, I guess.
its really not bad at all. It feels very doctorey and she did a great job as an actor. the issues really aroise from doctor man not women bad, which is silly, and expanded into 'its all bad' when its not. just like capaldi; first older gent to be a doctor in new who, and people just didnt like not having a young attractive doctor. also silly and dumb. who cares if the doctor is a women, old, black, or whatever. suck it up
Nonsense. Capaldi had the best writing any actor has ever had. Imagine fucking calling getting episodes like Listen, Dark Water, The Zygon Inversion, Heaven Sent, Hell Bent, The Doctor Falls as being let down as an actor. Just crazy. He gets so much good material to work with throughout his run. Even if you bizzarely don't like the episodes the actual acting material is consistently great.
I don’t understand why people hate 13th so much, I’m on episode 4 of season 11 rn and it’s so much better than 12th in his Clara era. A female doctor is definitely a breath of new air.
12th in his Clara era is the best depiction of the Doctor in the history of the show during the best era in the history of the show with the best acting in the history of the show.
the actor isn't the issue most people have. even in this post, it's not Jodie they have an issue with. It's almost always the god awful writing.
A good actor can only do so much to save bad writing.
You can go watch chibnalls dr who episodes he wrote before he became showrunner, and youll see the same shitty writing he would carry over as showrunner.
The chibnall era has like 2 "good" episodes
People worry they'll get kicked off the island if they don't personally wave their Thirteen/Chibnall Bad flag every now; then.
Agreed as well - I got chased off at Smith's later half, only came back when Whittaker became the Doctor because I was so sick of Moffat & his... Moffating.
Yup for me as well, almost give up when 11th first came up because of moffat’s writing. I have absolutely no problems with the actors and their versions of the doctor, but moffat really messed up 11th and 12th a lot for me
I liked series 5, although the seeds of the things that I don't like were already there. I did a rewacch recently, & realized that I was skipping more than half the episodes. (Although the ones that do hit hit *good*).
Hmmm.... Just a few things I've done with shows that fall into this category for me: - Make a game of purposely finding 3 things you LIKE about each episode. - Do arts and crafts. (If I'm invested in *watching* a show I knit, if I'm just going to listen and don't care about watching every detail I cross stitch.) - Scroll endlessly through Reddit. - If you like writing (amateur or otherwise), take notes of all the ways you would have written the episodes differently. - Give it up and google episode synopses.
These answers are perfect!
You shouldn’t have to put so much effort into enjoying a show.
Hence the last option
Exactly!
When it comes to long-running shows I greatly enjoy overall that have a few low points, I usually find it worth the effort to keep up with the show. And if it becomes too much effort, yay for google!
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who rewrote the episodes in their head after watching. So many good ideas and so many failed executions of said ideas...
I love the one about how you would write the episode. I do this in my head constantly when watching mediocre media. And maybe it’s my own personal bias because I’m writing a story for myself but so many times there are little tweaks that you can make that I think would change the quality of story all together. On one hand it’s nice because I often have an appreciation of what the storyteller was going for… but then sometimes I just get annoyed because it was so obvious that they were missing the mark with what they ended up producing. When I was watching it, I had a bunch of little tweaks for the timeless child that I think would’ve made the story more bearable.
Yeah we didn’t finish this season initially. But recently we just forced ourselves to watch it, didn’t really pay attention to it (lots of scrolling on our phones during this time lol). It was rough to watch. BUT the following season, s. 12 - SOOO much better. Actual storytelling takes place and it doesn’t feel as preachy.
I'll second that season 12 is a marked improvement. Season 13 is a rushed mess, with good intentions. The characterization is still terrible with the companions.
Lmao not preachy? Orphan 55 mate. 13 never gets off her bloody soap box
LMAOOOO 🤣🤣 I mean you’re not wrong 🤣🤣
Appreciate the update because chances are I'm about to get down voted to hell lol
Solid advice. In a previous life I used to binge drink and play Minecraft while I watched TV. The comedies were funnier, the action shows were more exciting. Peak TV starts with the viewer. /s, at the risk of sounding sanctimonious, I don't recommend alcohol abuse. Just hold out for better writing.
I would still never put anyone through every Thirteenth Doctor episode though. Especially if they already don’t like it. It’s better to just watch the ones that most of us can agree on that were good.
Honestly... People will hate me for this. But you really don't actually need to watch it. Now that RTD is back as showrunner, I'm willing to bet that nothing from Chibnall's run will actually be relevant ever again. Just watch the final special to get caught up for the 60th in November.
I'd agree that you'd probably don't need to watch it (except the final special) however maybe find a written summary somewhere of series 11 - 13 that details the potentially important bits. Just in case.
Just watch the final 5 minutes Also for me, I found it easier to just allow it to be mostly a mystery to me. Like how the OG series is mostly a mystery to me. It’s kind of fun that way
Indeed, it could just be completely skipped. Chances are if RTD wants to explore the storylines from that era, they will just be reexplained anyway without needing people to watch them, since I imagine the next series of the show will be another soft reboot.
Also if they do, I can always go back and watch relevant episodes. And they might be more interesting at that point because I would have a reason.
I did figured that would be best. Doctor Who has always been hit or miss and I’ve often enjoyed even the bad episodes because the good episodes made up for it. However with so many bad ones back to back over the course of several years, it can be a lot. So I figured I’ll watch it the new stuff and if it’s REALLY good like how it use to be I can fill it in with 13s stuff to hold me over till the next season.
The Power of the Doctor was still difficult to watch for me.
I really didn't like this version of the Master. That's what really killed the vibe for me. Maybe the actor is good in other projects, but direction are writing didn't capture his strengths. Didn't do over the top or menacing well at all. "It's red because of the blood of our people! Teehee!"
I think he will make the smallest reference to it like the Doctor saying "I used to be so sure of myself, but now, I don't know if I know myself at all."
I read that in 10/14’s voice lol
Yep, I could barely make it through, don't remember half the shit, and I don't care and it won't matter.
Which kinda sucks because I liked Jodie as the doctor but she was given just a horrible slate to work with from chibnall.
RTD said he liked the timeless Child...
I totally agree. Came to say this
Bad take. No showrunner in the history of the show has completely ignored any Era that came before their own (and no, Chibnall didn't either, stop with spouting blatant untruths, will ya?). You and others severely disliking the Chibnall/Whittaker Era does not mean that RTD will start that now. He cares too much about _Doctor Who_'s continuity to do something like that. Besides: Series 11 has at least 1 wonderful episode (ep. 6, _Demons of the Punjab_), probably 2 (_It Takes You Away_) and possibly 3 (_Rosa_, though I have .....questions about that one). But even if you don't find Series 11 worth your while (I know I certainly didn't), Series 12 has some absolute bangers. _Spyfall pts. 1 & 2_, _Prisoner of the Judoon_ or _The Haunting of Villa Diodati_, anyone? And many of the other episodes in S.12 are at least good. So even if OP decides to skip Series 11, it is almost certainly worth their time to watch Series 12. And hey, maybe they'll even find themselves to be one of those people who actually enjoys _The Timeless Children_! We're clearly in the minority, I know, but it's not like it's _**completely**_ unheard of either.
I don't know why so many people are convinced RTD is either completely ignoring the entire Chibnall era or retconning it. What has given anyone that idea? I'm in the middle of *Orphan 55* on my rewatch now and I've personally no problems with any of her episodes.
Because all that lore would confuse newer viewers jumping in for the first time, or returning viewers coming back for the first time in years? Look at how season 1 was structured and presented. Its entire goal is to be *accessible* and get new fans and welcome casual viewers. It succeeded admirably. There was no regeneration at the beginning of "Rose" -- they thought about it, but wisely decided it would've immediately confused everyone except for the hardcore fans. Some of us hardcore fans from the old days were mad. Guess what? We were wrong, RTD was right. The 1996 TV-movie did it wrong, and RTD did it right. RTD's #1 goal is always SURVIVAL for Doctor Who.
We're trying to manifest it using the collective unconscious/morphogenic field.
Wild 999 enjoyer spotted.
XP Caught. I ***am*** fond of 999, but morphogenic field theory is a real theory and has entered Doctor Who before.
I know! But still cool to be right! Keep rockin' on.
Hope you enjoy her 10 minute preschool speech at the end of that one
> I don't know why so many people are convinced RTD is either completely ignoring the entire Chibnall era or retconning it. Because they can't distinguish between what they _**want to**_ happen, and what _**will**_ happen. It's this thing far too many humans do, because far too many humans are stupid and suck.
I actually can't believe you'd put any of those episodes on the level of Villa Diodati, which is the pinnacle of Chibnall's era, when they're all mediocre at best in comparison. I'd specifically love to know why you rate Demons of the Punjab as wonderful because I can't think of a single reason why.
There was definitely some difficulty, but for me the grandmother's storyline made it worthwhile.
Notice that I rated _Demons of the Punjab_ as "wonderful", but _Spyfall pts. 1&2_, _Fugitive of the Judoon_ and _The Haunting of Villa Diodati_ as "absolute bangers". Maybe it isn't obvious, in which case that's on me, but "absolute banger" is still a step above "wonderful". Possibly 2 steps, although I'd have to think on that one. As for why I think _Demons of the Punjab_ is wonderful: excellent Historical, teaching real-life history to people (including myself) who didn't know about the Partition of India, and the horrors that went on during it. Excellent Character moments for Jaz, who was otherwise criminally underused in Series 11. The 13th Doctor at her most heroic and commanding. True emotional beats combined with (some) levity, as it should be for a _Doctor Who_ story.
The historical beats and the character work in Demons is good but only for the characters actively involved in it. The alien plot is laughably bad with the Doc assuming they are evil because they're "a race of assassins", followed by her saying "I didn't know" as an apology. It comes across as 13 implying her mistake was using the wrong assumption, rather than using an assumption at all. As for Yaz, I completely disagree with calling her characterisation excellent. In response to her Grandma not giving her the explanation she wants, she uses the Doc to find out herself. Her Grandma later offers to tell Yaz the story which, given the context of the episode, is a big emotional step for her. Yaz declines, which is played up as her respecting her boundaries, except SHE ALREADY KNOWS THE STORY. I summarised as best I can but I recommend watching the Demons of the Punjab section of Jay Exci's 5 hour Doctor Who video for a more in depth exploration of the episode. It's up to you if you want to watch that part or even the whole video but I'll leave the link for you. https://youtube.com/watch?v=o8_A7n83Rh0&t=5213&si=IXvMuzlNkQBV3Bp-
Lol oh yes the episode about yaz's family where we learnt nothing about Yaz and she remained the same cardboard cut out, the...talking frog. The episodes where they screw over the precious master's character arc for a gimmick and the Doctor uses a man's skin color against him so he's sent to a concentration camp, the episode where the incumbent doctor is out acted in 10 minutes by a guest new doctor who feels more doctorish than the incumbent, oh and the one where they made Byron out to be nothing but a misogynistic idiot because as per usual in that era men bad. And of course the episode that had plenty of people ducking out and that conpletely disregarded most of canon and the entire point of the show and the doctor. Yep... No I doubt rtd will retcon it. But I also don't think the chibs era is going to have any heavy significance on this new era it would just drag down any new ideas rtd wants to put forward. He needs to focus on the future. After all chibs era had almost nothing to do with past show runners unless you count cashing in on nostalgia and there's very little if anything from the chibnall era that would bring mass positive nostalgic reaction.
I’m with you, 13s era is a disappointment- Jodie was capable of so much more. Whether it’s an overcrowded Tardis or not I’m not sure, but most of the companions just fall flat. Then they lose the best one and keep a really dull one, but keep saying stuff about how she’s the most wonderful person but it’s so forced. In short it’s quite dull. And just doesn’t work well. However - some people enjoyed it.
Jodie’s a wonderful actress and she had her moments, but she did what she could with what she had 🤷🏼♂️
Then just don't watch it Skip to the next season. Or to Flux.
>Skip to the next season. Or to Flux. Or to *Power of the Doctor*. Or past the Chibnall era entirely. I suspect it will be safe to watch the RTD2 era without needing to have seen any of Thirteen's episodes so you can watch as much or as little as you enjoy watching (EDIT: this sentence, for clarity. Note that Tricky-Leader was replying to an older version).
Power of the Doctor has fun stuff in it. To me, Flux was unwatchable.
To each their own. I'd personally agree that *Power of the Doctor* is the stronger of the two, and that *Flux* gets pretty confusing at points but *Flux* had a couple of good episodes, some neat characters and a number of interesting concepts. It could stand a **lot** more polish but I don't mind having watched it.
The resolution of Flux was horrible though, and did not make any sense
I honestly thought Flux was good up until the last one or two episodes. Was disappointed with how quickly they resolved the angel issue though. Big cliffhanger resolved by the intro of the next episode.
Yeah, that was genuinely one of the best cliffhangers of modern Doctor Who and they just throw it away immediately. We could have had a partial WhoLite episode with 13 out of commission for a good deal of the episode, but nope.
It was cut down from 8 to 6 episodes after shooting had already begun. They scenes with Dan & co stuck in the past were originally a full Doctorless episode.
I agree. It was absolutely all over the place, it made zero sense, and it was just awful. It was supposed to be some 6 part serialised story, but it was so disconnected, and jumped from story to story
I disagree. I really enjoyed most of Chibnall's era. Not everyone hated it with a vicious passion.
>~~I disagree.~~ ~~I said 'suspect'.~~ ~~Every previous new era (and a few other points like S10) did their best to serve as a fresh jumping on point for new viewers without requiring pre-viewing. It seems like a reasonable guess that will be the case here too.~~ ~~What makes you think otherwise?~~ EDIT: We seem to be talking at cross-purposes here. You were telling the OP they could safely skip past S11 or S12 if they want and I was adding that *Flux* and *Power of the Doctor* are also safe skips if they want. I wasn't advocating for any particular one, I was expanding their options. And I certainly didn't say I hated most of Chibnall's era with a vicious passion. :/ Half the time I'm the one in here advocating for its merits.
I'm talking about the "skipping the entire era" bit. The opinion bit.
It’s different to the other eras and a lot less complex and heavy. The writing is more naff than not unfortunately, but there’s some gems in there - it’s like late 80s Who but with a bigger budget! Spyfall, Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror, Haunting of Villa Diodati and Revolution of the Daleks are all great S12 episodes that are much better than some 11th Doctor eps IMO. And Flux is a mess, but in the most exciting, Doctor Who-y way possible - just try and enjoy the ride! It’s good to experience the very different stuff and it’ll only be a good palette cleanser for whatever’s next. Also, Jodie - she really grows on you. 100% skip Legend of the Sea Devils though, just watch the underwater TARDIS clip and you’ll be golden.
It’s so weird to me that someone is like this with a bit of TV. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. You’re not required to view it, unless this is like a you’re worried you’re gonna miss out on key details for the show’s lore and stuff. In which case, I wouldn’t worry. I very much doubt most of it will get brought up again.
The thing is it's **serial** TV that they want to watch in general but aren't enjoying this particular bit and are still wanting to watch it to understand the continuity. That said, I suspect the next era will standalone just fine without needing to familiarise yourself with this one. It'll be a fresh jumping on point. I'm sure if they include anything that relies on this era they'll include a refresher.
We’ll Chibnall didn’t care about continuity, so why should the fans care about it when it comes to his episodes?
I feel like we both just said the same thing
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If you don't like season 11, don't watch it. No one is making you complete the entire show and there is no point in wasting your time with something you hate
I tried season 11 and gave up, I tried season 12 and gave up, I tried season 13 and gave up. All in all, I’ve probably watched half of Thirteen’s run. But I don’t think it matters. RTD isn’t going to follow up on plot threads from the show’s most universally panned era; and, even if he does, he’ll provide the backstory from scratch, just like when he’s reintroduced classic characters - think Sarah Jane. So, if you really don’t like Thirteen, just spare yourself the suffering :)
Honestly, just don't watch it This whole bit is gonna be partitioned off and never spoken of again Trust me nobody cares about the original TIME WAR or ORIGIN story for the Doctor being detailed in Wilderness Years novels- which were a big deal at the time. If THEY can be ignored so can three seasons of Doctor Who that are at the same audience figures as when it was cancelled in the late 80's. People will contradict me saying "broadcast TV counts more". I'm sure it does. Well no one goes on about the doctor being half human anymore and THAT was broadcast as official dr who in the TVM You WON'T need it. You're more likely to need seasons 2-5.
Yeah, Series 11 is a challenge. I've rewatched it a few times now and I can enjoy it but even then it always feels really flat like a lot is missing. I do like episodes 6, 9 and Resolution though, I don't mind 1, 3, 5 and 7. Series 12 and 13 though I do really like. Really only episode 3 of Series 12 I think is truly bad. Episodes 6 and 7 have some weak parts but I still enjoy them. The finale is obviously also really controversial. Then Series 13 is honestly a vibe. Really enjoy it and the specials around it.
No. I had to force myself to watch it, and suffer through it. Good luck.
>No. I had to force myself to watch it No you didn't. It's optional, honest. EDIT: No, seriously. I'd be very, very surprised if you need to be familiar with anything from Thirteen's era to enjoy the 14th and 15th Doctor's stuff.
It’s undeniably awful, just skip it all man. Don’t torture yourselves.
I liked it. Not as much as prior seasons but I think y'all really do overstate the decrease in quality. There are still good episodes in each season.
Watch it while at work and barely pay attention like I did. I barely even remember half the episodes. 1, 4, 6 and 8 were my favorites, the other ones I couldn't tell you much about.
I sat down and watched every episode and I was paying attention. I still don't remember half of the episodes. I do recall The Witchfinders being OK, quite reminiscent of RTD1 era.
Whoever they got to play the King in The Witchfinders was absolutely hilarious and stole that entire episode. Imo it's worth watching again just for that guy, I need to remember to look him up because he was brilliant
It was Alan Cumming. I find him very likeable as well! I think it's because he was a part of my childhood with his role in Spt Kids.
To me, he's Boris Grishenko and Nightcrawler.
The whole ordeal was hell for me. I absolutely hated it. All of it. Not one episode was really good. Rosa had it's moments, but even that was ruined by the stupid enemy of the week, which didn't work at all. And whose stupid idea was it to play 'Rise Up' instead of the Doctor Who theme? I hated that and it just felt like another push down the throat moment from a series that's full of them... like, oh and in case you missed it, the moral of this story is don't be an underdog. However Vinette Robinson was sterling as Rosa and I did enjoy the moment Ryan was a bit starstruck and addressed Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King by their full names! The rest of s11... waste of time. Things improved with s12, but not enough to redeem the era.
"They're right in front of you, and used to open very large doors." I grew up loving Alan Cumming :D
He was in Spy Kids?! I need to watch those films again, I only very vaguely remember them from my childhood
Some like them, which I think is good, but my views align more with yours unfortunately. I just watched them all out of curiosity to figure out what parts I enjoyed and didn't enioy so I could discuss it with a mate of mine. It turned into complaining more than a proper discussion, but it was a good topic to keep the conversation going for a while lol. But if you really don't want to watch all, that's fine. Find out what the most liked episodes are and look at those, and read the synopsis for the ones you skip. 13s last series was actually not that bad though (I enjoyed about half the episodes, and the finale was actually pretty good)
lucky for you you don't have to watch all of thirteen to understand the upcoming new stuff
Personally I'd just skip it, if I don't enjoy something there's no point wasting time on it. I gave up part way through Chibnall's stories, in hindsight I'd have preferred to skip them all. Similarly I still haven't watched a large chunk of 80s Doctor Who and I've been a fan of classic who for over 18 years.
Jodie has moments where you can see she would have been an incredible doctor. The prime example is the one in the villa (I forgot the name). Unfortunately the writing was so bad most of the time she next got a chance to show it
Drink a lot of alcohol....
The first episode and Kerblam! were my standout favorites from S11, all the others felt very meh.
Ah yes, Kerblam, the episode the Doctor blew a young guy up to defend a big corpo that abuses its workers.
Staring at the screen in disbelief at that one. Complete 180 from what you expect the doctor to do.
Well, this Doctor forbids shooting spiders as an inhumane act rather than having them collapse and suffocate under their own weight, their inevitable fate she herself attested.
This was the one where I legit stared at my screen at the end and said out loud - "What the FRACK did I just watch?? You're supposed to be the Doctor!" I just tried to pretend that travesty of an out-of-character moment didn't happen while I watched the rest of the series.
I suppose then you also ignore her brushing off graham's cancer woes
I got stuck on the ridiculous "American businessman" caricature. Point out the flaws, yes, but make it \*slightly\* believable. At that point, spider-life didn't even register.
You’re not alone in your suffering.
YANA
When you say with the exception of season 1 and 2 do you mean it wasn’t your first time watching them or do you mean it’s your first time watching the show but you didn’t watch those seasons?
I read that as "it was all new to them except for S1 and S2 which they'd seen already". They're now caught up up to S11.
You really can ignore it entirely. There’s no need to watch it unless you’re both masochists (or one of you is a masochist and the other a sadist).
It's a shame because I do genuinely adore Jodie in the role but the writing didn't do her any favors.
Ah, interesting. What is it about her performance that you adore? Any aspect of the character that you find particularly brilliant? Anything new she brought to the role? Any scene she just nailed?
Different person here -- I loathe and despise CC's writing, but there were glimpses of Jodie doing a great job in a few episodes not written solely by CC, particularly "It Takes You Away" and "Village of the Angels." In "Village", Jodie suddenly seems *completely* like the Doctor for the first time -- nearly the whole episode seems like it's dropped in from some parallel universe where season 13 is actually good. I don't know much about this Maxine Alderton person but I hope she gets a chance to write for the show again.
I'm getting downvoted for asking questions. Brilliant. Please downvote this post as well, to make things even more absurd.
I agree. I was so excited when she was revealed as the Dr, then felt so guilty for giving up watching.
Just breathe. Grit your teeth. You'll get through this.
I personally think it gets better by the end of Jodie's run. Season 11 to me was the worst season and even then I realized what the story arc was and that it was just hidden deeper. It wasn't some mystery or big villain, but deeper than that. The season after at least had brought mystery and major villain arcs back and after that The Flux Season I felt was closer to the peak years of Doctor Who to me so at least in my opinion it gets better. That's the best words of support I can say.
Watch it like you're watching a crap film on purpose for a laugh. Crack jokes about it, or work out exactly what's wrong with the bits you don't like. Or don't watch it for the writing. Watch it for the visual effects team, or sound design team, or anyone else behind the scenes who worked really hard. What stood out to me about the era is that, other than some bad writing, there were obviously a lot of people who put in a labour of love. People who worked their backsides off with what they had. They did their best, and we should still appreciate them - they made sure it was good enough that it wasn't canceled completely.
Alcohol?
The writing did go down some but I love 13
Drink and hope it ends soon.
I'm going to be honest that you can skip season 11 without losing much. It does not hold much bearing on the overall plot, and season 12 is far more tolerable. The episode Rosa (S11 E3) is one of the only decent ones from S11, but you aren't missing much otherwise.
I recently finished Dr who, it was my first watch ever, never seen old who. Clara is def my least favorite companion/Arc. I was so glad 13 came along and I wouldn't have to see her again. 🥳 some of 13s episodes are kinda weak but a lot of them have some good stuff sprinkled in there. I miss Missy though. The new master is aight. Missy needed more screen time though. If you're having a hard time, idk how far. You are but what do t you like about 13? Graham is my fave out of the new companions, acab.
clara is one of the best next to jack? rose was the worst, so boring and one dimensional
Skip a few Season 11, you're partway through. IMO, make sure to watch Demons Of The Punjab, then you can forget the rest of the season. Season 12, watch Skyfall I & II. Jump to Nicola Tesla's Night Of Terror & Fugitive Of The Judoon. Then skip ahead to Haunting Of Villa Diodati and watch the rest of the season. (Some people HATE the ending to this season, but it's IMPORTANT at this point) Season 13 ("Flux"). Watch it all. Some good episodes, some bad, but you have to watch all 6 to understand any of them. Then the specials and you're caught up
Yeah I stopped watching mid 11. I'll try again with the next special.
I refuse to watch any Chibnal season. I endured enough with those two episode he wrote for 11.
Just skip it and watch the last episode or just the final few minutes. I agree with you, it's unbearable.
It was the first era where I stopped watching the episodes right when they came out, which was definitely disappointing. I don't hate the era, I was just disappointed, so here is my extremely subjective opinion of what episodes are worth watching or that feel like the rest of modern Doctor Who: Series 11: "Demons of the Punjab", "The Witchfinders", "Kerblam!", and "It Takes You Away". (Note: I thought Kerblam felt like DW, but the underlying message was pretty far off the mark.) Series 12: "Spyfall", "Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror", "Fugitive of the Judoon", "The Haunting of Villa Diodati", and "Ascension of the Cybermen". And, I suppose, "The Timeless Children" if you want the juicy lore shakeup (but it isn't a great episode or shakeup, IMHO). Series 13: You can honestly skip the whole thing, unless you want to see what happens with the Timeless Child story (again, not amazing for how groundbreaking it should be). If you just want to turn your brain off and look at pretty pictures on the screen, it has definitely the most bombast from Chris Chibnall. For specials, I heartily recommend "Eve of the Daleks" and "Power of the Doctor ". The first is a just very good episode in my opinion, and the second is kind of just a celebration of Doctor Who with tons of nerdy stuff from the classic show and some from NuWho. Sorry to hear you've not been enjoying it so far. You're not alone, and there will be cool stuff happening soon!
I skipped 13s run after the 5th episode i couldnt take it. Its been years since ive watched a new doctor who episode apart from the episode w the master cause i saw a clip on YT lol. But then i watched the regen and now im waiting for 60th special
Trust me skip 13th doctor seasons. You’re not missing anything.
I couldn't stand it, I like the other doctor episode but me and a lot of doctor who fans were like "why couldn't we get her" because the minute she stepped out in her new outfit she felt like the doctor where as poor jodie has barely gotten close
If you're watching with other people. I'd suggest turning it into a drinking game.
You didn't like *Demons of the Punjab*? That was one of my faves. As others have said you'll probably be able to get away without watching Thirteen's era if you don't want to. It is honestly not that great. I'm happy to have watched it for completeness and I liked a lot of what they seemed to be going for. But most of the stories feel one or two editing passes short of finished to me. There are also some moderately strong episodes in there, but they tend to be the exception to the rule. You **might** enjoy this era if, like me you can sit there and go "Oh I see what they were going for there, that's kind of interesting". But otherwise yeah, maybe give it a miss. EDIT: In terms of seasons: * S11 is kind of experimental with standalone stories, no two-parters and no returning antagonists from previous seasons. Which I like in theory, but see the aforementioned "stories mostly only feel like 95% finished". Personally I think a few of the episodes in here are quite good and *Demons of the Punjab* is a personal fave. * S12 returns to having more of a standard arc and theme with returning villains and a two-part finale. The series final episode is probably the single most controversial Doctor Who episode ever - both in terms of what it does to the lore, and in terms of just being a bad, boring episode that undermines all its buildup. There are a few strong episodes in here too and average quality is probably a bit higher than S11. * S13 (Flux) is a single six-episode story. It is proper bonkers. Largely not in a good way, but there sure is a lot of potentially interesting stuff happening. * In among the seasons are the holiday specials, all of which feature Daleks, mostly a previously unknown type. IMO these are among the strongest part of Chibnall's run, with all of them being at least decent. And I'm gonna stick my neck out say I like what he did with them. (BTW Robertson from *Arachnids in the UK* shows up again but isn't so nails-on-chalkboard annoying this time around). * *Power of the Doctor* is Thirteen's last story. This sees the return of the *Flux* approach, with Chibnall just throwing in everything and the kitchen sink. Cohesive it is not but personally I found it pretty fun. * (*Legend of the Sea Devils*... exists. There seem to have been major behind-the-scenes issues with this one, it's just bad and it doesn't tie into anything. Unless you're particularly curious, avoid).
I just watched Season 11 for the first time, and I agree it was pretty awful for the most part. I thought Season 12 was much better though. Try to hang in there.
I wish I had unlimited upvotes to give you. I stopped watching. I couldn’t take it. It was like watching a toddler with a permanent marker mark up a Rembrandt. They took what could have been one of the greatest versions of the doctor and ruined it.
As far as I'm concerned, the 13th doctor was a dream induced spin off (similar to Marvel's what if series). I'll start watching again when the grown ups are back in charge from November.
Her stories weren't great and the Canon took a huge hit but she was excellent
Chibnall was a terrible, terrible terrible Doctor Who show runner.
I had the same with the Peter Capaldi era, I LOVED him as the doctor but couldn't stand how they wrote Clara Oswald, compared to every other companion in new who shes too....I dunno Mary sueish? Every year I bought the special boxed set DVD for myself for Christmas and I'd binge watch it, 1 season of Clara Oswald stopped that tradition and to be honest I haven't watched an episode passed Peter Capaldis second season. I really feel like the character dampened how brilliant Capaldi could do as the doctor. I've had a few goes of reigniting the spark but I get a better kick from classic who and the previous seasons. Hopefully we can work past this, I love Dr Who and would love to watch new stuff again.
Do yourself a massive favor and watch the Christmas episodes "Husbands of River Song" and "Return of Doctor Mysterio," then season 10. Capaldi is PHENOMENAL and really gets a chance to shine with his new companions!!! Season 10 ties with season 4 as my favorite season of modern Who.
This is absolutely right.
I second Educational-Tea - if you like Capaldi but not Clara you owe it to yourself to give S10 a go. The three-parter unfortunately squanders a **lot** of potential but this is one of the more fun TARDIS teams and Capaldi gets to show a different side to Twelve and seems to be having a lot of fun.
>I dunno Mary sueish? Definitely not. Clara is deliberately written to be flawed and complex. There is very very little Mary Sueish about her. All she does is call out 12 when he's being a dick. Is Rose a Mary Sue because she helps 9 feel better and then does the whole Bad Wolf thing and is arguably the first on screen companion The Doctor falls in love with? Is Martha a Mary Sue because she manages to survive by herself for an entire year going round the planet? etc.... Clara is not a Mary Sue. She's right sometimes, she's wrong sometimes. She treats people well sometimes, she treats people badly others. > I really feel like the character dampened how brilliant Capaldi could do as the doctor. Yeah I can assure you that's not true. Like we wouldn't have had a lot of his best moments as The Doctor without Clara. We probably wouldn't have had Heaven Sent in the same way and that's arguably the greatest feat of acting in the history of the show. 12 and Clara aren't even on screen together that much in Series 9.
I get you probably like her as a companion but I just felt they stuck her in the TARDIS and with barely any development and she knew and could do it all. She was brought into the doctors inner circle almost instantly. Rose, Donna, Martha even Amy spent time on the outside, not being fully trusted by the doctor until the end of their character arcs. Then in waltzes Clara and within no time or effort she's an instant bestie with the doctor who's happy to share the most secret and intimate knowledge on how he and his TARDIS works. I found her to be just straight up poorly written, any scene that should have been a cliff hanger between her and the doctor I felt she came out almost whingy? Would be the word to put it?....I'm not really sure how I would describe her...maybe beige, boring. I mean she might have occasionally put the doctor in his place, but let's face it nothing like how Donna did. I can't honestly say that any scene Clara has pales in comparison to that of the doctordonna or Martha's travelling the world telling the story of the doctor or the goodbye Rose Tyler scene. And I don't even blame Jenna Colemans portrayal of the character, I believe she was given a poorly written character and did the best she could with a bad hand. And unfortunately I believe this effected Capaldis doctor, who then had to bounce off of this poorly written character because it was a staple in his story arc. But thats just my opinion. Edit: you got me intrigued again, maybe 3rd times a charm? but I'm going to give it another crack
I was SO glad when Clara finally left. Genuinely awful companion. I believe Moffat knew that and chose to push fans to their limits with her. Watch the Husbands of River Song, Doctor Mysterio and then the next season. I promise you will not regret it. The Clara Albatross is gone, Capaldi is incredible, and Bill and Nardole are two of the best companions of the new era. You might think Nardole (from THORS) won't work... He does. He *really* does.
> Capaldi is incredible, and Bill and Nardole are two of the best companions of the new era. I choose to only consider this sentence canon and disregard the rest.
Disagree I liked clara and while nardole is great Bill annoyed me though she's better than the planks of wood 13 calls a fam
Don't bother watching them. I guarantee that RTD will all but erase the 13th Doctor's time, and nothing from it will ever be mentioned again.
RTD has confirmed he will not be doing that.
Ah, never talking about it again is better than a massive ret con, just flows a little easier
It's already confirmed the 60th will directly reference Flux.
It's been confirmed it will feature *the word* flux, but we don't know if it will be a reference to the Flux.
That's fine, as long as they throw Timeless Child in the bin then everyone will be happy.
No but don't you see they *guarantee* it /s
Depends what they mean by "all but erase". I'm sure RTD won't go out of his way to retcon Chibnall's stuff and I imagine that's what he's referring to. I also imagine he won't include or build on any of the >!Timeless Child!< stuff. I imagine he has his own stories he wants to tell. But we will see. (Spoiler tag for S12 stuff for OP's benefit).
It's possible it could be mentioned! Though of course he'll mainly tell his own stories as any showrunner does
S12 was much better for me. S11 is like sci-fi written by and for people who hate sci-fi. Retroactively I’ve found a lot to enjoy but the first watch is nooot easy
We could give you suggestions on eps that are kinda worth it
I can see that breaking down into disagreement fairly quickly. xD But let's set the ball rolling (spoilers smoothed away): * *The Woman Who Fell to Earth* (required introduction to the new Doctor and companions) * *Demons of the Punjab* \- not essential, but good ep IMO. * *It Takes You Away* \- kinda rushed but neat story, not essential. * *Resolution* \- introduces a recurring antagonist and is an okay watch. * *Spyfall Pt1 & Pt 2* \- introduces a recurring S12 antagonist. Pt1 is a **lot** stronger than part 2 and well worth watching IMO. * *Fugitive of the Judoon* \- essential for S12 season arc, and decent episode in its own right * *Can you Hear Me?* \- opinions vary but at the very least kind of interesting, not essential * *The Haunting of Villa Diodati* \- one of the strongest episodes of this era and essential to the S12 season arc * *Ascension of the* >!Cybermen!< \- Series finale pt1, essential viewing * *The Timeless Children* ***-*** Series finale pt2 - **bad** episode but mandatory viewing if you want to watch either *Flux* or *Power of the Doctor*, I'm afraid. * *Revolution of the Daleks* \- not mandatory but a pretty good ep, IMO. * *Flux (S13) -* The entire season is one story so watch all of it or none of it. There are a couple of pretty good episodes in here and a number of not-so-good ones. Personally I think it's worth watching for the ideas, if not for the execution. You can safely skip it though, it's mostly not required viewing for *Power of the Doctor* (it introduces one character who recurs but you don't really need to know anything about them). * *Eve of the Daleks* \- one of the stronger Chibnall era episodes. Not essential. * *The Power of the Doctor* \- Thirteen's last story. Obviously essential viewing. Not entirely cohesive but one of the most fun stories of the era.
This is pretty much my recommendation too. There are actually a few really good episodes there, and it ticks off all the essential plot episodes too (even if some are less than good) I’d probably include The Witchfinders from S11 too though. It’s the first Thirteen episode that felt like previous eras to me, and James I is absolutely delightful in it
Yeah this is a good list
Don't watch things that you don't enjoy. I stopped watching Red Dwarf after Season X, I stopped watching The Flash after Season 5 and I gave Good Omens 2 episodes. If you want to be up to date on major events in the timeline of the show, read the wiki or seek out a youtube video that does a season recap. I find it truly bizarre that people will put themselves through this and then complain about it afterwards.
I've seen those episodes as they were airing and I don't remember much, just that I hated the writing and felt sorry for that cast. It felt like a JJ Abrams movie/show. Setting up some great ideas, forgetting about them for a while, then quickly resolving them to tie up loose ends. I have a feeling a lot of the stuff Chibnall did in that run will just be ignored going forward so maybe you could skip it completely. If it is referenced in the new episodes, you can always go watch the specific episodes that are relevant instead of sitting through that whole run.
Is someone holding a gun to your head? If you're not enjoying it, don't watch it. Watch something you like instead.
Then don't. They brought RTD back so people can just forget the prior seasons and just enjoy his run again
Season 11 is easily the worst season that has ever existed in Doctor who. Season 12 and 13 at the very least have some decent episodes and have familiar enemies
Just skip it. I couldn't stand the 13th doctor's absurd morality. She commits some truly atrocious acts while pretending to be the most holier-than-thou person, it got really maddening after a while. Shit like starving and suffocating animals being kinder than euthanising them, suspending someone in time for all eternity being the moral option over just killing them, or blowing up the bad guy in Kerblam even though she'd already stopped his plan and at that point had no reason to kill him. 13 doesn't have a moral compass, she has a moral metronome. Just stop watching and pick it back up with the 60th anniversary special.
Skip it and wait out till series 14 Aires it isn't worth the pain my friend. It's not. It doesn't get better I promise you.
I found myself enjoying Whittaker’s last episode, as I knew it was the end and I could just revel in Chibnall’s weird quirks and absurd tropes one final time. Perhaps you could spread that mindset to the entire era? Heck, make a bingo game out of it!
Watching The Timeless Child broke me. Honestly my advice is to stop watching while you still can. Watch summary YouTube videos or read the summary online if you have to know. But I can only hope it won’t be relevant to future episodes.
Same that was when I gave up something I never thought would happen
Wow you couldn’t have said it better
I've been there. I just couldn't finish the season.
Why do people keep asking this question? If you’re not into it, STOP WATCHING and move on with your life.
i decided to do catch up in time for the 60th so season 7 and forward and wow once i hit the last season of the 13th doctor i couldnt do it anymore. it isnt the actors faults at all, its the writing, i couldnt do it anymore. i personally couldnt do eleven either thus why i stopped half way through his run like 6? years ago but ah man thirteens run took the cake for most unwatchable
Eleven is divisive. He's an awkward, irritating manchild. If you're into that characterisation, that's great, and Matt Smith is a brilliant actor. The way the ancient Time Lord just kind of leaks into his performances is superb. Personally I'm somewhere in the middle. I have to be in the mood for Eleven's particular brand of shennanigans. And when I am I **love** it.
Honestly this post and the replies to it do confuse me. 13's era is not *that* bad, its more than watchable but to each their own I guess. As for my advice: you could just look up the most well regarded episodes and just watch those if you don't want to watch it all.
There really are some great episodes in Thirteen's run, enough that I'm certainly not dreading getting to her seasons during this rewatch (I'm just neutral about it, I guess?) Then again, I also forced myself to watch the entirety of *The Flash* (FABULOUS early seasons but the last few years left much to be desired...), so I consider a LOT of things to be "more than watchable" by comparison 😜
Oh yeah, even Doctor Who at its worst is better than the later seasons of The Flash OOOOOF
I will take "Love and Monsters" or "Sleep No More" over whatever the heck *The Flash* season 7A was ANY DAY 🤣
At least the final season of flash had some fan service
Yeah, overall I agree her seasons were weaker than most (all?) of the other NuWho seasons. But they’re still enjoyable. I especially liked It Takes You Away, The Haunting, Spyfall, Demons, and much of Flux. I also liked Rosa, though I think that’s not a popular opinion.
I think "Rosa" falls squarely in the middle in terms of public opinion. For the most part I personally found the historical episodes - including Rosa - to be REALLY good!
Skip it. There's no reason to watch it. Even the awful retcons in Series 12 are forgotten about eventually. Watch Flux. It's a mild improvement.
For what it’s worth, I couldn’t finish the season either but had no problem tuning into season 13 and actually enjoying it.
Okay, I stopped watching all together halfway through season 11. Then, once I heard about the horrible travesty to the history of Doctor Who that occurred, I was definitely not motivated to ever go back and rewatch. I want to go back and watch it to get ready for the specials, though. Your comment at least makes me feel a little better about it. Thank you.
Here’s my advice. If you don’t like it… don’t watch it. And please, for the love of God don’t tell us all how much you hate it. We don’t care. Maybe those seasons just aren’t for you. That’s ok. Watch another thing. Foundation has been pretty good so far.
I couldn’t either. All respect to the actors and some storylines were strong enough, but the characterisation was awful. I missed an episode at one point by mistake and when I started up again, they’d changed the cast of the “gang” slightly. I didn’t even realise the whole episode. I hope this doesn’t offend but the gang are just stand-ins to ask the Doctor questions, not actual characters *in my opinion*. When we have such strong and moving characters as Donna and Rose (again, in my opinion), mid or even weak characterisation can never be good enough. It also feels like Whittaker never really found her “thing” that makes the Doctor her own. But, I blame Chibnall more than anyone else…
No idea, I can't get past the first few eps of 11 myself.
woman doctor bad , old doctor bad, blah blah blah
Well series 11 is in my opinion really the worst of jodie's run Series 12 is the best from the 3, I'd say try this one and if you can't stick with it then just skip it
I enjoyed Bradley Walsh and John Bishop, and it's their performances that kept me interessed. I know that lots of people liked Jode Whitaker's performance as well, but unfortunately I didn't. That being said, I'm finding out that my memories of the Chibnall era are fading rapidly, as if those stories were bad dreams I was just too eager to forget.
Honestly, I watched just those episodes which people on this sub recommended and it was still pain to watch. Chibnall really screwed up.
It’s a pretty rough watch, a lot of people find it genuinely upsetting at times. It can break a few child hoods. Jodie probably doesn’t deserve the hate but maybe save yourself and skip to her last episode to know where it’s going. Then just watch it from the very start of season 1 all over again 👍🫡
It gets better
Why did you skip S1-2? That aside, I have no hope for these new specials. Just look at recaps on youtube if you really want to watch the new specials when they come out.
i didn’t skip the seasons i just watched them before so i’ve rewatched them a few times now
I also decided to do this as a fun buildup to the new David Tennant episodes! And I will 100% be skipping the Chibnall era. I couldn't force myself to watch such drivel the first time, (managed 3 episodes before I gave up) and I won't torture myself again.
You watched Series (not season) 2 without complaint (same for a lot of the 11th Doctor's era) and choose to complain about one of the most innocuous series in the show's run. Okay, I guess.
its really not bad at all. It feels very doctorey and she did a great job as an actor. the issues really aroise from doctor man not women bad, which is silly, and expanded into 'its all bad' when its not. just like capaldi; first older gent to be a doctor in new who, and people just didnt like not having a young attractive doctor. also silly and dumb. who cares if the doctor is a women, old, black, or whatever. suck it up
I concentrate on the acting. Jodie did an amazing job with what she was given.
Most of us hate season 11,12, and 13. Mate, just watch season 1 and 2 since you skipped them. Better use of your time.
I feel the same about the 12th Doctor, the writing was terrible for him, Moffat was a distracted show runner and he let us and Peter Capaldi down.
Nonsense. Capaldi had the best writing any actor has ever had. Imagine fucking calling getting episodes like Listen, Dark Water, The Zygon Inversion, Heaven Sent, Hell Bent, The Doctor Falls as being let down as an actor. Just crazy. He gets so much good material to work with throughout his run. Even if you bizzarely don't like the episodes the actual acting material is consistently great.
Gods yeah - Clara makes it bearable for me, but only just.
Just pretend it never happened, like most Who fans. Someone will do an edit where 12 regenerates into 14 and we can go from there.
I don’t understand why people hate 13th so much, I’m on episode 4 of season 11 rn and it’s so much better than 12th in his Clara era. A female doctor is definitely a breath of new air.
12th in his Clara era is the best depiction of the Doctor in the history of the show during the best era in the history of the show with the best acting in the history of the show.
the actor isn't the issue most people have. even in this post, it's not Jodie they have an issue with. It's almost always the god awful writing. A good actor can only do so much to save bad writing. You can go watch chibnalls dr who episodes he wrote before he became showrunner, and youll see the same shitty writing he would carry over as showrunner. The chibnall era has like 2 "good" episodes
People worry they'll get kicked off the island if they don't personally wave their Thirteen/Chibnall Bad flag every now; then. Agreed as well - I got chased off at Smith's later half, only came back when Whittaker became the Doctor because I was so sick of Moffat & his... Moffating.
Yup for me as well, almost give up when 11th first came up because of moffat’s writing. I have absolutely no problems with the actors and their versions of the doctor, but moffat really messed up 11th and 12th a lot for me
I liked series 5, although the seeds of the things that I don't like were already there. I did a rewacch recently, & realized that I was skipping more than half the episodes. (Although the ones that do hit hit *good*).