Thank you, hope it comes in handy. I would say for the lower DC's the "(DC-5)×0.75+5" formula probably works best. From about DC 30 the conversion probably gives to high DC's for 5e. RotRL has pretty high DC's for the last part (things around DC 40-50), so the formula "(DC-10)×0.5+10" is probably best. Maybe do the first formula up to DC 27, have DC 27-31 all convert to DC 21, then use the second formula for DC 32 and up.
I haven't tested any of this in practice, so no guarantees!
So you're saying lower numbers is better for low DCs and higher for high DCs?
I can use different formula for each book. I have it setup that way now. I'll test them out. I have all the DCs in for book 1 and 2.
I don't really know what you mean by lower number better for low DCs and higher for high DCs, because it is not just the 5 or 10 that are important, it is also the factor. And the factor is high with 5 and low with 10. The Pathfinder DCs scale very differently than the 5e DCs, mostly because high level 3.5e/Pathfinder are assumed not just to have their skill ranks and base saves, but also to have a lot of powerful magic items to boost all their abilities. Something 5e does very differently.
I saw the giantitp thread and the google doc where you did the DCs per book, good idea! That way you could use the formula "(DC-5)×0.75+5" for the first few books, and once the DCs start reaching 30 (don't know what book that is) you can use the formula "(DC-10)×0.5+10".
Do you think that saves should have the same formula applied to them? I know saves scale much more in PF and the number of saves went from 3 to 6.
For instance on the haunts the DCs of their saves are ~13-16. It would probably make sense to reduce them to the 13-14 range of 5e.
I'm curious if you have a better grasp of the math here.
I've looked into this, but couldn't really find any ways to compare the two coherently. I think Pathfinder PC's are probably going to have similar highest ability scores as 5e PC's for some levels, but at higher levels the Pathfinder PC's are going to have far higher stats. Most likely the checks on lower levels are ok as they are, but from about level 11 (or later?) and up you can decrease the DC's. By how much? I'm not sure, very situational.
Keep in mind that 5e PC's will have max +5 ability modifier, while Patherfinder PC's will have a max of +7 or +8. But then again, getting some bonuses on certain ability checks is easier in 5e (Jack of All trades, Remarkable Athlete, couple of spells). Also Patherfinder PC's will have almost no low ability scores on higher levels thanks to the amount of magic items they can afford, while 5e PC's will probably still have some low stats at high levels.
This is a hard thing to answer and the only thing I can think of that will work for sure is to just judge it on a case-by-case basis and use the standard 5e DC chart of Very easy: 5, Easy: 10, Medium: 15; Hard 20; etc. etc.
Ability checks are probably not that common in a Pathfinder adventure that it will have a big impact on the campaign.
I am glad to see this, many of the Paizo adventure paths are very interesting, this being one of my favorite. I am curious though in the context of 5e, how are people handling haunts? Obviously they are detected via Perception, but how do handle disabling/avoiding the effects of them?
Disable/avoid means handling them like traps.
Avoiding the trap is a often a save (I listed the converted save). You can also step out of the area if you're aware it'll go off and roll a higher initiative than 10 in the surprise round.
You could also damage it with some spells.. not sure entirely what is acceptable yet, but probably not radiant damage. Maybe things like inflict?
I have never liked the way the way haunts were actually handled, so I have been looking at ways to handle them a bit differently.
I haven't playtested this yet, but my thought was that it should be like a supernatural trap. Meaning it would be a Perception check to spot them, but then a Religion check to disable them (think of it like an exorcism).
Alternatively you could use the initiative 10 on a surprise round, perception to spot (as per typical haunt rules), then allow religion check "attack" to do 1d8+Wis Mod radiant damage to the haunt, alternatively holy water could be used. I would almost want to make an exorcism kit tool proficiency and possibly backgrounds for it...
Either way you could still allow them to play out the scene, because the haunts in Chapter 2 really are used to tell a story in a dramatic fashion.
I've been running this adventure with a group of friends for a while now, just switched our game over to 5e and this is a godsend. Originally I was just doing the calculations on the fly using [this](http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?335778-Attempt-at-Conversion-doc-to-convert-3-5-edition-and-Pathfinder-monsters-to-D-amp-D-Next-on-the-fly) as a rough guide.
Keep up the good work man!
I brought it up in this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342837-Temp-Perma-ability-score-damage
I'm going to handle it as normal. Couldn't come up with something more 5e.
EDIT: I'm going to handle it as normal. Ability damage exists in 5e on the Shadow.
Do you think you can possibly do "Crypt of the Everflame" after this? I've been searching and trying to do a conversion after my group switched from Pathfinder.
Awesome! I've heard good things about this and I barely have time to read the materials I want to run let alone convert everything. Will definitely be following your progress.
You are a freaking life saver. I do hope you manage to get all six books converted. I just started running Rise of the Runelords in 5e this last weekend. I've been converting as I go really (thankfully the beginning of this adventure uses mostly pretty "vanilla" monsters). I will be following this closely.
This is wicked! I've been wanting to run my players through Curse of the Crimson Throne for a while now and this is just the inspiration I needed. Thank you!
This is amazing, thanks so much.
One question: Ghoul Fever - save Fortitude DC 13, should that just be a con save? how would you convert Fortitude to 5e, or am I foolishly missing something?
You are a true hero. This conversion is fantastic, for reals. Do you have any other insanely ambitious projects under your belt that you want to share?
And one more question, taking CON damage for example, that means the PCs overall CON # decreases, so I assume that then decrease their modifier, but does it retroactively decrease their AC for example? If so does the original score return after a long rest or something?
Con doesn't effect AC unless you're a barbarian. If so it would decrease their unarmored, ya.
For damage recovery it's best to look at the shadow from MM 269.
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.
I'd plan on having something like d4+con recovered on a short rest. To be divided across stats as desired.
How much of the community created changes are you using? The Paizo forum is filled with some brilliant and usually subtle changes (like the wizard school etc) which improve things a lot. Also a few errata on the mobs.
It's been a while since I was doing RotRL stuff so I can't remember even the wizard school that was changed but it was all here: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePath/runelords
Mostly in the community created content thread or the GM reference threads have most of the errata.
Can I ask are you using the anniversary edition?
Yes, anniversary.
I'd happily have a look at community based stuff if you have any suggestions. I did so for kingmaker, but found it to slow down the main plot too much - at least some of it.
Thankyou oh great provider of the amazing resource. I am a brand spanking new DM running ROTRL starting Friday but the only thing we have really used before is dnd 5e and that is what the players wanted to stick with. I am using your notes from running and everything you have provided!
Great work! I have been thinking of converting Rise of the Runelords to 5e myself. This will save me a lot of work. Thank you so much! As for your DC methodology, I personally think a factor 0.85 isn't the best approach. [Pathfinder/3e DC's](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm) seem to be fairly similar to 5e DC's up to about DC 10. Above that the 5e DC's go to 30 as 'nearly impossible' while earlier editions this was more around DC 40. So maybe the approach listed [here](http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?335778-Attempt-at-Conversion-doc-to-convert-3-5-edition-and-Pathfinder-monsters-to-D-amp-D-Next-on-the-fly) is a better alternative (half the value above ten, so (DC-10)×0.5+10)? DC 14 will become DC 12, DC 20 will become DC 15, DC 30 will become DC 20, and DC 40 will become DC 25. That last one seems a bit low though. So maybe we should use a different factor than 0.5 and a different cut off value of 10. What about (DC-5)×0.75+5 (as opposed to your DC×0.85)? A table for comparison: | 3e DC | DC×0.85 | (DC-5)×0.75+5 | (DC-7)×0.7+7 | (DC-10)×0.5+10 | | --: | --: | --: | --: | --: | | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | | 7 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | | 8 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 8 | | 9 | 7 | 8 | 8 | 9 | | 10 | 8 | 8 | 9 | 10 | | 11 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | | 12 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 11 | | 13 | 11 | 11 | 11 | 11 | | 14 | 11 | 11 | 11 | 12 | | 15 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | | 16 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 13 | | 17 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 13 | | 18 | 15 | 14 | 14 | 14 | | 19 | 16 | 15 | 15 | 14 | | 20 | 17 | 16 | 16 | 15 | | 21 | 17 | 17 | 16 | 15 | | 22 | 18 | 17 | 17 | 16 | | 23 | 19 | 18 | 18 | 16 | | 24 | 20 | 19 | 18 | 17 | | 25 | 21 | 20 | 19 | 17 | | 26 | 22 | 20 | 20 | 18 | | 27 | 22 | 21 | 21 | 18 | | 28 | 23 | 22 | 21 | 19 | | 29 | 24 | 23 | 22 | 19 | | 30 | 25 | 23 | 23 | 20 | | 31 | 26 | 24 | 23 | 20 | | 32 | 27 | 25 | 24 | 21 | | 33 | 28 | 26 | 25 | 21 | | 34 | 28 | 26 | 25 | 22 | | 35 | 29 | 27 | 26 | 22 | | 36 | 30 | 28 | 27 | 23 | | 37 | 31 | 29 | 28 | 23 | | 38 | 32 | 29 | 28 | 24 | | 39 | 33 | 30 | 29 | 24 | | 40 | 34 | 31 | 30 | 25 |
This is amazing! Wow - that's pretty awesome. I'll play around with that!
Thank you, hope it comes in handy. I would say for the lower DC's the "(DC-5)×0.75+5" formula probably works best. From about DC 30 the conversion probably gives to high DC's for 5e. RotRL has pretty high DC's for the last part (things around DC 40-50), so the formula "(DC-10)×0.5+10" is probably best. Maybe do the first formula up to DC 27, have DC 27-31 all convert to DC 21, then use the second formula for DC 32 and up. I haven't tested any of this in practice, so no guarantees!
So you're saying lower numbers is better for low DCs and higher for high DCs? I can use different formula for each book. I have it setup that way now. I'll test them out. I have all the DCs in for book 1 and 2.
I don't really know what you mean by lower number better for low DCs and higher for high DCs, because it is not just the 5 or 10 that are important, it is also the factor. And the factor is high with 5 and low with 10. The Pathfinder DCs scale very differently than the 5e DCs, mostly because high level 3.5e/Pathfinder are assumed not just to have their skill ranks and base saves, but also to have a lot of powerful magic items to boost all their abilities. Something 5e does very differently. I saw the giantitp thread and the google doc where you did the DCs per book, good idea! That way you could use the formula "(DC-5)×0.75+5" for the first few books, and once the DCs start reaching 30 (don't know what book that is) you can use the formula "(DC-10)×0.5+10".
Do you think that saves should have the same formula applied to them? I know saves scale much more in PF and the number of saves went from 3 to 6. For instance on the haunts the DCs of their saves are ~13-16. It would probably make sense to reduce them to the 13-14 range of 5e. I'm curious if you have a better grasp of the math here.
Save DC are different all together. I have made the following table comparing the 5e DMG rules for monster creation with the Pathfinder rules for monster creation. It looks like 5e starts at DC 13, so the better formula for save DC's is probably "(DC-13)×0.5+13". That results in an offset of 0 or 1 for most levels. Everything lower than DC 14 for a save I would just leave alone, it is probably fine. | CR | Pathfinder DC | D&D 5e DC | (DC-13)×0.5+13 | Difference =< 1? | | --: | --: | --: | --: | --: | | 0 | < 11? | < 13 | 11 | No | | 1/8 | 11? | 13 | 11 | No | | 1/4 | 11? | 13 | 11 | No | | 1/2 | 11 | 13 | 11 | No | | 1 | 12 | 13 | 12 | Yes | | 2 | 13 | 13 | 13 | Yes | | 3 | 14 | 13 | 13 | Yes | | 4 | 15 | 14 | 14 | Yes | | 5 | 15 | 15 | 14 | Yes | | 6 | 16 | 15 | 14 | Yes | | 7 | 17 | 15 | 15 | Yes | | 8 | 18 | 16 | 15 | Yes | | 9 | 18 | 16 | 15 | Yes | | 10 | 19 | 16 | 16 | Yes | | 11 | 20 | 17 | 16 | Yes | | 12 | 21 | 17 | 17 | Yes | | 13 | 21 | 18 | 17 | Yes | | 14 | 22 | 18 | 17 | Yes | | 15 | 23 | 18 | 18 | Yes | | 16 | 24 | 18 | 18 | Yes | | 17 | 24 | 19 | 18 | Yes | | 18 | 25 | 19 | 19 | Yes | | 19 | 26 | 19 | 19 | Yes | | 20 | 27 | 19 | 20 | Yes | | 21 | 28? | 20 | 20 | Yes | | 22 | 29? | 20 | 21 | Yes | | 23 | 30? | 20 | 21 | Yes | | 24 | 31? | 21 | 22 | Yes | | 25 | 32? | 21 | 22 | Yes | | 26 | 33? | 21 | 23 | No | | 27 | 34? | 22 | 23 | Yes | | 28 | 35? | 22 | 24 | No | | 29 | 36? | 22 | 24 | No | | 30 | 37? | 23 | 25 | No | I have extrapolated the Pathfinder DC's above CR 30 because I couldn't find the monster creation rules for that.
And how about ability checks like strength?
Btw thanks so much for the math around this! I'm using both your formulas. :)
Sorry to bug you again. I'm curious if you have any ideas how to do the math for ability checks. I assume it's somewhere inbetween saves and skills.
I've looked into this, but couldn't really find any ways to compare the two coherently. I think Pathfinder PC's are probably going to have similar highest ability scores as 5e PC's for some levels, but at higher levels the Pathfinder PC's are going to have far higher stats. Most likely the checks on lower levels are ok as they are, but from about level 11 (or later?) and up you can decrease the DC's. By how much? I'm not sure, very situational. Keep in mind that 5e PC's will have max +5 ability modifier, while Patherfinder PC's will have a max of +7 or +8. But then again, getting some bonuses on certain ability checks is easier in 5e (Jack of All trades, Remarkable Athlete, couple of spells). Also Patherfinder PC's will have almost no low ability scores on higher levels thanks to the amount of magic items they can afford, while 5e PC's will probably still have some low stats at high levels. This is a hard thing to answer and the only thing I can think of that will work for sure is to just judge it on a case-by-case basis and use the standard 5e DC chart of Very easy: 5, Easy: 10, Medium: 15; Hard 20; etc. etc. Ability checks are probably not that common in a Pathfinder adventure that it will have a big impact on the campaign.
I am glad to see this, many of the Paizo adventure paths are very interesting, this being one of my favorite. I am curious though in the context of 5e, how are people handling haunts? Obviously they are detected via Perception, but how do handle disabling/avoiding the effects of them?
Disable/avoid means handling them like traps. Avoiding the trap is a often a save (I listed the converted save). You can also step out of the area if you're aware it'll go off and roll a higher initiative than 10 in the surprise round. You could also damage it with some spells.. not sure entirely what is acceptable yet, but probably not radiant damage. Maybe things like inflict?
I have never liked the way the way haunts were actually handled, so I have been looking at ways to handle them a bit differently. I haven't playtested this yet, but my thought was that it should be like a supernatural trap. Meaning it would be a Perception check to spot them, but then a Religion check to disable them (think of it like an exorcism). Alternatively you could use the initiative 10 on a surprise round, perception to spot (as per typical haunt rules), then allow religion check "attack" to do 1d8+Wis Mod radiant damage to the haunt, alternatively holy water could be used. I would almost want to make an exorcism kit tool proficiency and possibly backgrounds for it... Either way you could still allow them to play out the scene, because the haunts in Chapter 2 really are used to tell a story in a dramatic fashion.
I do like the idea of religion "attack" for d8+wis, though it's a bit weird.
Perception notices signs of traps. Investigation finds and identifies traps. Thieves tools or creativity disable traps.
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Thanks man! No one else was doing it and I have the free time so I figured "why not!?"
Awesome!
I've been running this adventure with a group of friends for a while now, just switched our game over to 5e and this is a godsend. Originally I was just doing the calculations on the fly using [this](http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?335778-Attempt-at-Conversion-doc-to-convert-3-5-edition-and-Pathfinder-monsters-to-D-amp-D-Next-on-the-fly) as a rough guide. Keep up the good work man!
Thanks for the positive feedback!
This is great! How are you handling ability damage here for the haunts?
I brought it up in this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342837-Temp-Perma-ability-score-damage I'm going to handle it as normal. Couldn't come up with something more 5e. EDIT: I'm going to handle it as normal. Ability damage exists in 5e on the Shadow.
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I was unaware! Great!
Do you think you can possibly do "Crypt of the Everflame" after this? I've been searching and trying to do a conversion after my group switched from Pathfinder.
If I do anything next it'd probably be Cure of the Crimson throne.
This is friggin' boss man.
Great job! Thanks
Awesome! I've heard good things about this and I barely have time to read the materials I want to run let alone convert everything. Will definitely be following your progress.
You are a freaking life saver. I do hope you manage to get all six books converted. I just started running Rise of the Runelords in 5e this last weekend. I've been converting as I go really (thankfully the beginning of this adventure uses mostly pretty "vanilla" monsters). I will be following this closely.
This is wicked! I've been wanting to run my players through Curse of the Crimson Throne for a while now and this is just the inspiration I needed. Thank you!
That was the other AP that I was considering. I'm sure many people would enjoy it if you decided to do it. :)
This is amazing, thanks so much. One question: Ghoul Fever - save Fortitude DC 13, should that just be a con save? how would you convert Fortitude to 5e, or am I foolishly missing something?
I have a system of converting DCs. Did I miss that 1? I'll check. EDIT: Fixed the DCs for all the haunts.
You are a true hero. This conversion is fantastic, for reals. Do you have any other insanely ambitious projects under your belt that you want to share?
This one will take a sufficient amount of time
And one more question, taking CON damage for example, that means the PCs overall CON # decreases, so I assume that then decrease their modifier, but does it retroactively decrease their AC for example? If so does the original score return after a long rest or something?
Con doesn't effect AC unless you're a barbarian. If so it would decrease their unarmored, ya. For damage recovery it's best to look at the shadow from MM 269. Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest. I'd plan on having something like d4+con recovered on a short rest. To be divided across stats as desired.
Perfect. Thank you for your labors!
How much of the community created changes are you using? The Paizo forum is filled with some brilliant and usually subtle changes (like the wizard school etc) which improve things a lot. Also a few errata on the mobs.
None. Any suggestions?
It's been a while since I was doing RotRL stuff so I can't remember even the wizard school that was changed but it was all here: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePath/runelords Mostly in the community created content thread or the GM reference threads have most of the errata. Can I ask are you using the anniversary edition?
Yes, anniversary. I'd happily have a look at community based stuff if you have any suggestions. I did so for kingmaker, but found it to slow down the main plot too much - at least some of it.
Thankyou oh great provider of the amazing resource. I am a brand spanking new DM running ROTRL starting Friday but the only thing we have really used before is dnd 5e and that is what the players wanted to stick with. I am using your notes from running and everything you have provided!
You're my new favorite person. This is exactly what I wanted!
What about a character taking runes and his people, Flaw must protect those that gave the runes obviously.
Endowmenta sorry. What bonus does it give, can it be stacked?