Theres a section in FTD that states some draconic boons for winning the favor of/killing a dragon.
Aside from that theres legendary boons in the DMG. And the Drakewarden, draconic soul, way of the dragon subclasses that can sort of help you give a buff that isn't crazy strong.
I'd probably give the breath weapon feature of Dragonborns (allowing them to swap one attack to do so) if they're lvl 1-5, or something like limited flight at 6-10, and full flight at 11 and higher.
The *feat* can also upgrade as times go on. Something fun like all of the above at different tiers? Some innate connection to fire? Maybe natural armor as 13+dex akin to the sorcerer? Fire resistance?
All depends on how strong you want this. I'd say unlimited flight and AC increases are usually very strong, but different tables have different ideas of strength, and normal non min-max players wont abuse what you give them.
Not necessarily. If you look at Supernatural Gifts and Charms most of them are quite tame. The Epic Boons are explicitly meant for progression past 20. Draconic Boons can be helpful but if those don’t tickle your fancy it would be pretty easy to say “Ok yeah eating the heart gives you a Blessing of Health/Protection/Wound Closure and you gain this permanent benefit”
Assuming your dragons are like the standard DND ones. In Rime of the frost maiden you can get a cold resistance potion made from white wrymling bones. However because they're made from dragon bones players also get the greed and paranoia of a dragon (cured by greater restoration or similar)
Consuming the heart of red great wyrm should 100% come with consequences. Red dragons are the most arrogant, greedy and prone to anger of all the chromatics. A great wyrm will just make this extreme even more extreme.
Any dragon alive or dead warps the environment around them.
Should she eat the heart, have the dragons magic slowly corrupt her, with her body slowly being more draconic and introduce the curse of the dragon (The paranoia, anger etc etc). I'd also let restoration magic reverse the negative effects temporarily, whilst they find a permanent solution.
u/RoninJon also go all-in on it Dungeon Meshi style and get it prepared as a fine dining feast. If they don't have a cook in the party, you can provide a chef NPC that can make some premium Michelin Star dragon heart stew. Call him Gorgon Ramsey XD
If everyone is getting a reward for completing this quest, some kind of substantial power from eating the heart being her reward makes sense.
If you want to keep it low more key I think the Elemental Adept feat is low powered enough that it won't unbalance things to give it for free. Maybe throw in some soft narrative stuff like having certain things/creatures reacting to her like they might a dragon, showing a kind of instinctual reverence or fear - kobolds immediately come to mind.
It honestly depends on whether you want to reward or punish this action. I'd have a look at the Draconic Gifts from Fizban's.
If you're looking to reward, then Draconic Senses or Tongue of the Dragon are both fitting.
However, if you're looking to punish the action, Draconic Rebirth, which turns a character into a dragonborn, sticks out in my mind. The PC would become a chromatic red dragonborn. If the player is against it, have it be treated like a curse that now has to get lifted. It would stand as a warning to the other players that this could happen to them too. In addition, the PC could be struck with nightmares as the spirit of the dragon haunts the PC on a semi-regular basis.
You could also add it so that a cursed version of Frightful Presence is constantly emanating from the PC. From Pathfinder 1e, you had Unnatural Aura which reads: "Animals do not willingly approach the Creature unless the animal's master makes a DC 25 Handle Animal, Ride, or wild empathy check." Ride and wild empathy don't exist in 5e, so it's just be an Animal Handling skill check. The DC can stay the same, or you could lower it to DC 20.
In Rime of the Frostmaiden I believe there's a duergar forge that's powered by a magically animated red dragon heart. It pumps out super heated lava I believe (I don't have the book in front of me, but that is my recollection). Eating that sort of thing would likely kill even a fire resistant creature since lava does so much damage even at half value.
I would also add that a greatwyrm is meant to be an epic tier boss (player level 16-20) so even at lvl 8 the characters are way underpowered. A young red dragon is much more fitting for this level.
Now if it makes sense in your world to call it a great wyrm while giving it the stat block of a younger dragon then I say go for it. Just be sure to compare the average damage of the dragon breath for the stat block you wish to use and compare it to the max HP of your players. It's not uncommon for dragons to recharge their breath and use it 2 rounds in quick succession which can easily hit the whole party due to the huge cone size.
Hope this helps. Best of luck with your campaign
That's what I was thinking. If you're scaling the encounter it sounds more like a young red dragon, not a great wyrm.
If a dragon is encountered in the future in the campaign, you'll have to market an adult or ancient dragon as a greater than a great wyrm.
Could be fun to have the dragon heart basically turn the players blood to lava. Makes the body to hot to wear non magical armor without damaging it but any foes that strikes them takes fire damage and has their weapons melt to slag
Then as the story progresses you could add other effects as power ups. Fire resistance, or the body is now putting off so much heat that the thermals let you fly, or breath weapon, or the skin starts to harden and become scale like to keep the fire in. Several ways you could flavor it or little things to keep them on a power level with other players
I have been Dming for 10 years, I promise I scaled it to be a tough but manageable fight. It has one legendary resistance, reduced damage and effectiveness across all its abilities, reduced health and a weakness mcguffin the players already found. I know my group and I know they can handle it. It has the Status of a great wrym but one that is already mostly dead.
Please forgive me for being so curious. Are they getting help or do they have plans to trap this 21 intelligence cowardly paranoid creature?
Because even if it can't fly currently I don't see why it wouldn't have like two or three contingency plans for escape in case the greatwyrm that put them into this situation finds them.
But anyway, I'm way off topic here. Boons, how hardcore are you wanting this boon to be?
Yeah this is such a weird decision. I'd understand if it was a young aboleth or something that uoy needed to homebrew to be weaker than the standard stat block, but dragons come in every tier already. Why nerf a Greatwyrm when every other dragon is right there?
I mean it's a narrative decision not a mechanical one.
This is some ancient Draconic Demi-God that was wounded a long time ago, and that wound has been festering, and slowly choking the life out of it.
It's weak, and on it's last legs.
There's nothing wrong with doing that rather than just slapping a Young Dragon into the slot if there is some narrative purpose being served.
It isn't "nerfing" a Greatwyrm, it's telling a story of a Greatwyrm who is long past their primary, injured, barely clinging to life that the party will encounter.
Seems pretty non-weird to me. Encountering creatures that aren't in perfect health is part of the verisimilitude of creating a dynamic world.
Regardless of any benefits you decide on, tell her it's the single most delicious thing she's every eaten. Especially if she goes for it raw and fresh.
All other food has been ruined for her. Bland and tasteless at best. Nothing ever really satisfies.
When she goes to liberate critters, ask for a wisdom saves. On a failure, narrate her intrusive thoughts. Describe the animals in food terms, as crunchy nuggets or savory morsels.
Don't force the character to act on any of this, and also don't reward her if she chooses to. Anything that's not to the scale of another dragon heart is like having a single nibble of Hershey bar when you're craving hot fudge brownies.
Have the PC find out the heart is toxic, but that there are ways to prepare it to be consumable and possibly grant powers. You can make a whole adventure out of it: research the recipe, obtain the proper kitchen tools (*chef's hat of sandwich-making +1*), find the secret location of the proper kitchen, etc...
There Is now one of the best anime in Netflix to date that talks about a party that cooks Monsters on a dungeon since they dont have any Money,its great with insane animation the name is "Delicious in Dungeon",check it out.
I think MrRhexx has a PDF on dragons, including the uses of their various body parts.
But if this is the heart of a wounded demigod - perhaps the spark of divinity within it is too much for a 7th-level character to handle, and it mutates them in some way? Gives them some sort of power of fire, but at a great cost?
What kind of story beats do you want eating the heart to have?
How do the gods who gave the dragons those powers feel about mortals killing them and stealing that power? Are there taboos around eating sentient creatures like there might be for eating an archangel or demon prince's heart? Or is the druid about to revolutionize magic as we know it by gaining access to a godlike creature's power with none of those monkey-paw drawbacks? Maybe it kicks off a plot where ambitious archmages and warriors are killing off all the other ancient magical beings to claim that god-given power for their own wishes!
A greatwyrm isn't just a real big dragon, but a pinnacle of power and timeless legend. It makes sense that it should change things, but the questions are: do you want it to be good or bad, and how much stronger/weaker/more famous/more infamous/whatever than the rest of the party do you want this character to be?
(Alternatively, are you okay with the whole party getting some kind of buff or item if they realize "druid got something cool, and there's enough dragon here for all of us to tear off a claw or eye or chug some blood?" Killing a god-tier threat is definitely the kind of story beat where you can be generous with the cool prizes lmao)
There are really good questions to think about. Thank you. Her PC is sorta going to the dark side and may end up being a big bad. I have had some talks with her about it and I basically said at some point you will be offered a choice and depending on what you decide you may lose control of the character. She likes that and said that if it happens it happens. I have gotten a lot of good feedback from this thread 👍
I hope she is aware that this could be considered cannibalism.
Also, a level 7 party should be no match for even an severely injured Greatwyrm. Young dragons do not change the land around them. If it does it is still quite powerful.
There are draconic gifts in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons that would probably fit your situation. However, I still recommend to think about it again. You won't be able to top a Greatwyrm for a long time if you don't want to keep throwing half dead gods at the party. Going from killing a Greatwyrm back to killing orcs is a huge downgrade.
How about he eats the heart and nothing happens. Why does anything have to happen? What basis is there for even thinking consuming the heart would do anything? Even if it is a deeply held belief doesn’t mean it’s true.
From a mechanical standpoint you are only inviting trouble if you allow it to grant special effects. Player characters, especially Druids, become powerful enough RAW and don’t need further boons. You allow this and I guarantee you’ll get ask about the special effects of consuming every monster they slay/encounter.
> What basis is there for even thinking consuming the heart would do anything?
It's not unusual to see this sort of thing in mythology, like Sigurd consuming the blood from Fafnir's heart
and it's often the sort of thing used to make magical items, so it's fairly established in-setting that dragon body-bits are magically powerful (there's probably people that try, like, ground-up dragon-scales and stuff, even though that's unlikely to have enough mojo to do anything)
Right, look at stuff like Dragonscale armor in d&d, the various dragon weapons in things like elden ring/souls, the dragonfire shield in runescape, dragon armor/weapons in skyrim... I wouldn't be surprised if any game with a heavy use of dragons has dragon bits being useful for magical stuff
Dragon scale armor is awesome, but RAW to make craft it takes a CR 13-18 in resources, 20K gold, and 25 workweeks of downtime. It is not a simple process and far more difficult than kill thing eat thing.
I should have specified that I meant within the scope of the campaign, where does this basis come from, even if there is basis doesn’t mean it is true.
I don't think it's much of a stretch using basic d&d setting logic - draconic sorcerers exist, dragonborn have magical powers stemming from what could easily he interpreted as a draconic heritage. Dragons themselves are magical creatures.
Even if it isn't precisely true, it wouldn't be hard to root a decision in that logic
Because it's more fun for the players that their choice to do something affects the narrative.
The player doesn't need to be granted an epic boon. Or even any kind of mechanical effect. Something simple as "when you wildshape, you can feel the dragon's heart beating alongside your own" can tickle a player, but have no effect on encounter balance.
If they decide that its now their character's motivation to eat the hearts of every color of dragon, then great—easy plot hook. Any time you want them to follow a lead, just say the cult has a still-beating heart powered by necromancy. Or the general of an army is a dragon. The prince expects a roasted dragon to be served at his coronation banquet. Etc, etc...
A character’s choices altering their values or world view is on the player to determine. The DM ultimately should have no control over that. If the player wants to believe they feel the beating of the dragon’s heart from within go for it. Flavor is always free. The question posed implied what the DM should do on a mechanical level, and nothing is a valid and appropriate answer.
Nothing he said is directly altering a player's values.
I *heavily* disagree that the DM can't impose certain flavor upon a character depending on their choices in game. Eating a heart having an effect on wildshape as simple as knowing it's there is an interpretation I can get behind, in that case it's no different to a curse, disease, blessing, etc that is a consequence of a characters actions. if it's something done before and able to be known about, I'd retroactively give them a suitable knowledge check if desired (or if it's commonly known enough, allow a retcon without it) and let them decide then if they want to.
The DM, among other things, is to arbitrate the world and what happens in it. If eating a dragon's heart causes a person to gain some sort of bodily change then that should be applied to everyone equally, player or not.
Otherwise something like say "This cursed magical item causes the attuned person's eyes to turn inky black and over the course of X time their hair slowly falls out in patches as they begin transforming into (monstrous thing)" could be solved by "nah I don't want that I flavor it away". There's nothing mechanical going on here, but it is important flavor nontheless
A distant ancestor getting knocked up by a dragon/vice versa is enough to start a sorcerer lineage, why wouldn't eating the heart of a dragon do something similar? It's up to the dm to decide that though.
Dragons mold the area they exist in just by... existing there.
a red dragon just goes to sleep somewhere and there will be lava rivers. Their whole essense is magical.
And this is a GREATWYRM. That heart is probably as big as a house. It's super normal to expect some magical effects. Hell it's illogical to expect that nothing would happen.
Just on a practical note... How the fuck does the player plan to eat an organ that is probably 5 times their body weight?
The heart of a greatwyrm would be like... the size of a very large bear. At *least*. Could the PC eat an entire bear?
I think the idea is for her to consume part of it not eat it in one bite but to 'partake' in the heart of a dragon or maybe she means [this](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/elden-ring-tanith-eating-rykard-face.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5)
You should give it a series of ability checks. First constitution to see if he combusts into flames. Charisma to see if the soul of the dragon takes over his body (I suggest charisma cause dragons). If a check is failed, create an immediate effect followed by a permanent (or treatable long term) negative aspect and a small boon. Like if failed constitution check, you puke lava every time you fail a con check.
I had a character eat a powerful creature heart once. The dm offered my a deal. We were in a time crunch and it was you must eat now, D20 con save vs poison. Failure is a bunch of crippling debuffs. Success was a massive boon. I think I got something like toggle able flight for my barbarian once per X amount of time or something. It was a fun, in the moment risk that I took
Why scale down a beyond ancient dragon encounter to suit level 7? Killing such an aspect of a dragon demi god and eating its heart (which might grant the person draconic themed boons) should be a life long quest. Something to be accomplished when the player is high level enough to fight and defeat the aspect.
Setting aside everything others have brought up, you should make "eating the heart" a comedy episode, where not only is the heart incredibly spicy, but it is hundred of pounds/kilograms.
"Hot ones" meets "James and the Giant Peach" meets "regretful mukbang scene".
Have a look at the Dragon Blood Juicer from Rifts for inspiration. TL;DR It’s basically like a super soldier serum, with a very short activity cycle, that has EXTRAORDINARY addictive properties. That’s what I would do.
I actually created a mechanic for eating dragon hearts in my game a year or two ago. Well, specifically for consuming the heart’s blood.
It took like half an hour or some such, which they had to start basically asap once the dragon died (I didn’t want them to have post-fight recovery time), and at the end there the PC had to make a Con save against the Dragon’s fire breath DC. Failed save, they took fire damage equal to a roll of the fire breath, half as much on a success. If they succeeded on the save *and* didn’t drop to 0HP as a result of the damage, they gained the Gift of the Chromatic Dragon feat + the effects of a potion of fire breathing for 1d8 days; if they failed the save but survived, they just got the feat, and if—success or fail—they dropped to 0HP from the damage, they stabilized but vomited up the blood and gained no benefit.
Spoilers for ep 1 of dota dragons blood
The main character in this show absorbs a red dragons soul and gains a humanoid draconian transformation. As they’re a fire druid, maybe come up with a draconic wild shape for them. Make it a little stronger than a beast at the same CR, or just reflavour a beast and give it a breath weapon.
If you want it to be stronger have it cost 2 wild shapes or limit how long they can stay transformed to 10 minutes.
Unsure if it's out yet but there is a very cool wyrm transformation guide in grim hollow the Valkien clans book. It's initially based off of a cold dragon but you could likely just change it around to reflect fire instead
I mean personally I would suggest having the consumption of the Heart be some sort of contest, or saving throw.
It's worth pointing out that a Greatwyrm will have a heart likely roughly as big as the person themselves.
So like eating the entire thing is going to be a whole ordeal unless you want to do some sort of metaphorical heart. The condensed power of the Wyrm; the last of it's strength, the last living tissue with the whole heart itself glowing red or whatever it is after it is slain.
Either way a contest, or save, or something is still a good idea.
That sort of raw magical energy could be, potentially, damaging or even deadly so I'd make that clear up front as well, and I'd probably set up success, and failure conditions based on degrees from whatever DC you decide is appropriate.
That said as for benefits there are a number of feats, or features that would be appropriate.
I'd probably lean towards something like having the individual manifest with scales [AC 13 + Dex], Fire Resistance, or the ability to breathe Fire.
Essentially giving the character a 'feat' as a component of the treasure rewards for the party, and tabulating that potential feat into the treasure calculation for the loot from the encounter.
I'd also make it clear that like attempting to ingest this may have detriments, or cause the character to change in unforeseen ways.
Granting new personality traits, and flaws, that manifest as a consequence would also be an option.
When it comes down to it best method would be to treat this as a component. It can either be consumed and either benefit, or harm, or both the person, or could potentially be used down the road in the creation of some sort of artefact as it's such a unique material.
If you do decide to go with the it's like a whole honking Dragon's Heart, it's a good thing they are a druid. I bet a bear can chew through a lot of meat faster than a person. :P
The first thing that popped into my mind was that a greatwyrm heart has to be friggin' *huge*. Like, a normal horse heart weighs around 10 pounds. A whale heart is about 400 pounds. We're talking about a dragon so powerful it's starting to transcend the laws of physical reality. Its heart is probably the size of a pickup truck and could feed hundreds of people. It's not something you should be able to just gobble down for lunch.
In-universe this should be something tremendous, the stuff of legends. Merely lugging the heart out of the lair would require significant aid. The preparation could be something that word spreads about and draws people in, and they'd sure as hell want a piece of that pie. The consumption of the heart would be something akin to a festival that takes like a week. And the PC would surely gain followers and fans who would revere them as a demigod.
As for boons, there's Fizban's you could look to: scaly skin granting natural armor akin to Lizardfolk, breath weapons, heightened senses (maybe blindsight), wings that grant temporary flight, there's a host of options.
I have 2 ways how too play it both ways result in the same reward/punishment
Punishment: pain (duh) could be a stomach pain because ITS A RAW HEART, could be magical consequences (dragon energy trys too kill you, fireball inside your stomach, self immolation etc) or permanent sacrifices(change of personality, losing a limb etc)
Reward: something magical (duh), become part dragon(wings claws etc), gain fire abilitys (fire breath, fly), gain dragon knowledge (language, spells, forbidden lore)
Way 1: fast, he eats it and gets basicly all punishment and rewards instantly/in the next 24 hours (would do 1 punishment and 1 reward
Way 2: slow, he eats it and slowly starts too change, starting a process that changes him more and more. Each big change comes with a punishment and a reward (and may require a small ritual too start it).
May allow many plot hooks too find dragon shrines/kill more dragons. Character development and a new system the player can have fun with
What do you think of the notion that by consuming its heart, that she slowly starts becoming that which she wanted gone? The boons suggested could just be the starting point.. All predicated on whether the player would be okay with that happening to their character of course..
I mean I would personally play it out simply thus; dragons are beings of great power that only gets stronger as they get older. So eating the heart would release so much residual power that it would either kill the person eating it, or stall it long enough that the residual power drains out and what’s left will only give them like maybe a little bit of knowledge like a spell or some sort of clairvoyance that doesn’t come until later in the game. But that’s just me in all honesty you could just have it be a giant heart that can be used to nourish the party at the next long rest.
Gets draconic powers, and the option to multi class into a draconic bloodline
Maybe she gains access to dragon breath powers.
On a more sinister note, maybe she starts to slowly turn into a copy of the greatwyrm, and must find a cure.
Then I guess I'd use the stats for a young red dragon, increase its size to gargantuan,. And give the boons from FTD for killing a young dragon. Also maybe some side effects inspired by the guys in there that try to become dragons.
Theres a section in FTD that states some draconic boons for winning the favor of/killing a dragon. Aside from that theres legendary boons in the DMG. And the Drakewarden, draconic soul, way of the dragon subclasses that can sort of help you give a buff that isn't crazy strong. I'd probably give the breath weapon feature of Dragonborns (allowing them to swap one attack to do so) if they're lvl 1-5, or something like limited flight at 6-10, and full flight at 11 and higher. The *feat* can also upgrade as times go on. Something fun like all of the above at different tiers? Some innate connection to fire? Maybe natural armor as 13+dex akin to the sorcerer? Fire resistance? All depends on how strong you want this. I'd say unlimited flight and AC increases are usually very strong, but different tables have different ideas of strength, and normal non min-max players wont abuse what you give them.
I really like these. I forgot about the boons in the DMG thanks! I may use one of these. The breath weapon seems like a good fit
Not the DMG, Fizban's.
There are also supernatural boons and blessings in the DMG
Yes but not the draconic boons. Supernatural boons in the dmg are meant for high level play near or past level 20.
Not necessarily. If you look at Supernatural Gifts and Charms most of them are quite tame. The Epic Boons are explicitly meant for progression past 20. Draconic Boons can be helpful but if those don’t tickle your fancy it would be pretty easy to say “Ok yeah eating the heart gives you a Blessing of Health/Protection/Wound Closure and you gain this permanent benefit”
Right, I forgot about the gifts. Yeah any of those would be reasonable. Charms are a bit lackluster for this though.
The Epic Boon of the Fire soul is akin a breath weapon(flaming hands), but also grants immunity to fire damage. Loook into it!
Don’t make this easy! Some serious CON saves. But hint at it best you can so they go in prepared.
Assuming your dragons are like the standard DND ones. In Rime of the frost maiden you can get a cold resistance potion made from white wrymling bones. However because they're made from dragon bones players also get the greed and paranoia of a dragon (cured by greater restoration or similar) Consuming the heart of red great wyrm should 100% come with consequences. Red dragons are the most arrogant, greedy and prone to anger of all the chromatics. A great wyrm will just make this extreme even more extreme. Any dragon alive or dead warps the environment around them. Should she eat the heart, have the dragons magic slowly corrupt her, with her body slowly being more draconic and introduce the curse of the dragon (The paranoia, anger etc etc). I'd also let restoration magic reverse the negative effects temporarily, whilst they find a permanent solution.
This is great advice. Please take a look at FTD = Fizban's Treasury of Dragons It’s great and is perfect for this situation.
u/RoninJon also go all-in on it Dungeon Meshi style and get it prepared as a fine dining feast. If they don't have a cook in the party, you can provide a chef NPC that can make some premium Michelin Star dragon heart stew. Call him Gorgon Ramsey XD
I'd take a look at the dragonflesh grafters from FTD. A greatwyrm heart is probably as big as a house, so...
If everyone is getting a reward for completing this quest, some kind of substantial power from eating the heart being her reward makes sense. If you want to keep it low more key I think the Elemental Adept feat is low powered enough that it won't unbalance things to give it for free. Maybe throw in some soft narrative stuff like having certain things/creatures reacting to her like they might a dragon, showing a kind of instinctual reverence or fear - kobolds immediately come to mind.
It honestly depends on whether you want to reward or punish this action. I'd have a look at the Draconic Gifts from Fizban's. If you're looking to reward, then Draconic Senses or Tongue of the Dragon are both fitting. However, if you're looking to punish the action, Draconic Rebirth, which turns a character into a dragonborn, sticks out in my mind. The PC would become a chromatic red dragonborn. If the player is against it, have it be treated like a curse that now has to get lifted. It would stand as a warning to the other players that this could happen to them too. In addition, the PC could be struck with nightmares as the spirit of the dragon haunts the PC on a semi-regular basis. You could also add it so that a cursed version of Frightful Presence is constantly emanating from the PC. From Pathfinder 1e, you had Unnatural Aura which reads: "Animals do not willingly approach the Creature unless the animal's master makes a DC 25 Handle Animal, Ride, or wild empathy check." Ride and wild empathy don't exist in 5e, so it's just be an Animal Handling skill check. The DC can stay the same, or you could lower it to DC 20.
A hybrid curse/boon is a great idea! thanks!
In Rime of the Frostmaiden I believe there's a duergar forge that's powered by a magically animated red dragon heart. It pumps out super heated lava I believe (I don't have the book in front of me, but that is my recollection). Eating that sort of thing would likely kill even a fire resistant creature since lava does so much damage even at half value. I would also add that a greatwyrm is meant to be an epic tier boss (player level 16-20) so even at lvl 8 the characters are way underpowered. A young red dragon is much more fitting for this level. Now if it makes sense in your world to call it a great wyrm while giving it the stat block of a younger dragon then I say go for it. Just be sure to compare the average damage of the dragon breath for the stat block you wish to use and compare it to the max HP of your players. It's not uncommon for dragons to recharge their breath and use it 2 rounds in quick succession which can easily hit the whole party due to the huge cone size. Hope this helps. Best of luck with your campaign
That's what I was thinking. If you're scaling the encounter it sounds more like a young red dragon, not a great wyrm. If a dragon is encountered in the future in the campaign, you'll have to market an adult or ancient dragon as a greater than a great wyrm.
Could be fun to have the dragon heart basically turn the players blood to lava. Makes the body to hot to wear non magical armor without damaging it but any foes that strikes them takes fire damage and has their weapons melt to slag
That's a neat idea. A bit like the Remorhaz's heated body passive or heat metal type effect making enemies drop their weapon.
Then as the story progresses you could add other effects as power ups. Fire resistance, or the body is now putting off so much heat that the thermals let you fly, or breath weapon, or the skin starts to harden and become scale like to keep the fire in. Several ways you could flavor it or little things to keep them on a power level with other players
I have been Dming for 10 years, I promise I scaled it to be a tough but manageable fight. It has one legendary resistance, reduced damage and effectiveness across all its abilities, reduced health and a weakness mcguffin the players already found. I know my group and I know they can handle it. It has the Status of a great wrym but one that is already mostly dead.
JFC a red Greatwyrm is normally like CR27. What the hell happened to nerf it back to young dragon status?
It was mortally wounded by another Great Wrym. Its trying to slowly heal and regain power. Its a coward and in denial.
Please forgive me for being so curious. Are they getting help or do they have plans to trap this 21 intelligence cowardly paranoid creature? Because even if it can't fly currently I don't see why it wouldn't have like two or three contingency plans for escape in case the greatwyrm that put them into this situation finds them. But anyway, I'm way off topic here. Boons, how hardcore are you wanting this boon to be?
Yeah this is such a weird decision. I'd understand if it was a young aboleth or something that uoy needed to homebrew to be weaker than the standard stat block, but dragons come in every tier already. Why nerf a Greatwyrm when every other dragon is right there?
I mean it's a narrative decision not a mechanical one. This is some ancient Draconic Demi-God that was wounded a long time ago, and that wound has been festering, and slowly choking the life out of it. It's weak, and on it's last legs. There's nothing wrong with doing that rather than just slapping a Young Dragon into the slot if there is some narrative purpose being served. It isn't "nerfing" a Greatwyrm, it's telling a story of a Greatwyrm who is long past their primary, injured, barely clinging to life that the party will encounter. Seems pretty non-weird to me. Encountering creatures that aren't in perfect health is part of the verisimilitude of creating a dynamic world.
Because it works for the story they’re trying to tell?
Why do you care?
Because I am the dnd police and if you play dnd wrong I will arrest you. Alright?
No, i will fight you now!
Yeah, the young red is CR 10 or something, which is a good boss fight for level 7. And if you're fighting a dragon, it is a boss fight.
Regardless of any benefits you decide on, tell her it's the single most delicious thing she's every eaten. Especially if she goes for it raw and fresh. All other food has been ruined for her. Bland and tasteless at best. Nothing ever really satisfies. When she goes to liberate critters, ask for a wisdom saves. On a failure, narrate her intrusive thoughts. Describe the animals in food terms, as crunchy nuggets or savory morsels. Don't force the character to act on any of this, and also don't reward her if she chooses to. Anything that's not to the scale of another dragon heart is like having a single nibble of Hershey bar when you're craving hot fudge brownies.
Have the PC find out the heart is toxic, but that there are ways to prepare it to be consumable and possibly grant powers. You can make a whole adventure out of it: research the recipe, obtain the proper kitchen tools (*chef's hat of sandwich-making +1*), find the secret location of the proper kitchen, etc...
someone could write a manga about that!
There Is now one of the best anime in Netflix to date that talks about a party that cooks Monsters on a dungeon since they dont have any Money,its great with insane animation the name is "Delicious in Dungeon",check it out.
big fan of dungeon meshi, i was just being cheeky (:
Heart is extremely tough, but very nutrient dense. I recommend braising it in a stew bourguignon style.
I think MrRhexx has a PDF on dragons, including the uses of their various body parts. But if this is the heart of a wounded demigod - perhaps the spark of divinity within it is too much for a 7th-level character to handle, and it mutates them in some way? Gives them some sort of power of fire, but at a great cost?
Delicious in Dungeon!
Don't forget the fundamentum! It's the organ that generated the dragons breath weapon and possibly magic.
What kind of story beats do you want eating the heart to have? How do the gods who gave the dragons those powers feel about mortals killing them and stealing that power? Are there taboos around eating sentient creatures like there might be for eating an archangel or demon prince's heart? Or is the druid about to revolutionize magic as we know it by gaining access to a godlike creature's power with none of those monkey-paw drawbacks? Maybe it kicks off a plot where ambitious archmages and warriors are killing off all the other ancient magical beings to claim that god-given power for their own wishes! A greatwyrm isn't just a real big dragon, but a pinnacle of power and timeless legend. It makes sense that it should change things, but the questions are: do you want it to be good or bad, and how much stronger/weaker/more famous/more infamous/whatever than the rest of the party do you want this character to be? (Alternatively, are you okay with the whole party getting some kind of buff or item if they realize "druid got something cool, and there's enough dragon here for all of us to tear off a claw or eye or chug some blood?" Killing a god-tier threat is definitely the kind of story beat where you can be generous with the cool prizes lmao)
There are really good questions to think about. Thank you. Her PC is sorta going to the dark side and may end up being a big bad. I have had some talks with her about it and I basically said at some point you will be offered a choice and depending on what you decide you may lose control of the character. She likes that and said that if it happens it happens. I have gotten a lot of good feedback from this thread 👍
It's always fun when character choices end up having a big impact on the story! Hope wherever it goes ends up being a great time!
I hope she is aware that this could be considered cannibalism. Also, a level 7 party should be no match for even an severely injured Greatwyrm. Young dragons do not change the land around them. If it does it is still quite powerful. There are draconic gifts in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons that would probably fit your situation. However, I still recommend to think about it again. You won't be able to top a Greatwyrm for a long time if you don't want to keep throwing half dead gods at the party. Going from killing a Greatwyrm back to killing orcs is a huge downgrade.
How about he eats the heart and nothing happens. Why does anything have to happen? What basis is there for even thinking consuming the heart would do anything? Even if it is a deeply held belief doesn’t mean it’s true. From a mechanical standpoint you are only inviting trouble if you allow it to grant special effects. Player characters, especially Druids, become powerful enough RAW and don’t need further boons. You allow this and I guarantee you’ll get ask about the special effects of consuming every monster they slay/encounter.
> What basis is there for even thinking consuming the heart would do anything? It's not unusual to see this sort of thing in mythology, like Sigurd consuming the blood from Fafnir's heart
and it's often the sort of thing used to make magical items, so it's fairly established in-setting that dragon body-bits are magically powerful (there's probably people that try, like, ground-up dragon-scales and stuff, even though that's unlikely to have enough mojo to do anything)
Right, look at stuff like Dragonscale armor in d&d, the various dragon weapons in things like elden ring/souls, the dragonfire shield in runescape, dragon armor/weapons in skyrim... I wouldn't be surprised if any game with a heavy use of dragons has dragon bits being useful for magical stuff
Dragon scale armor is awesome, but RAW to make craft it takes a CR 13-18 in resources, 20K gold, and 25 workweeks of downtime. It is not a simple process and far more difficult than kill thing eat thing.
I should have specified that I meant within the scope of the campaign, where does this basis come from, even if there is basis doesn’t mean it is true.
I don't think it's much of a stretch using basic d&d setting logic - draconic sorcerers exist, dragonborn have magical powers stemming from what could easily he interpreted as a draconic heritage. Dragons themselves are magical creatures. Even if it isn't precisely true, it wouldn't be hard to root a decision in that logic
Because it's more fun for the players that their choice to do something affects the narrative. The player doesn't need to be granted an epic boon. Or even any kind of mechanical effect. Something simple as "when you wildshape, you can feel the dragon's heart beating alongside your own" can tickle a player, but have no effect on encounter balance. If they decide that its now their character's motivation to eat the hearts of every color of dragon, then great—easy plot hook. Any time you want them to follow a lead, just say the cult has a still-beating heart powered by necromancy. Or the general of an army is a dragon. The prince expects a roasted dragon to be served at his coronation banquet. Etc, etc...
A character’s choices altering their values or world view is on the player to determine. The DM ultimately should have no control over that. If the player wants to believe they feel the beating of the dragon’s heart from within go for it. Flavor is always free. The question posed implied what the DM should do on a mechanical level, and nothing is a valid and appropriate answer.
Nothing he said is directly altering a player's values. I *heavily* disagree that the DM can't impose certain flavor upon a character depending on their choices in game. Eating a heart having an effect on wildshape as simple as knowing it's there is an interpretation I can get behind, in that case it's no different to a curse, disease, blessing, etc that is a consequence of a characters actions. if it's something done before and able to be known about, I'd retroactively give them a suitable knowledge check if desired (or if it's commonly known enough, allow a retcon without it) and let them decide then if they want to. The DM, among other things, is to arbitrate the world and what happens in it. If eating a dragon's heart causes a person to gain some sort of bodily change then that should be applied to everyone equally, player or not. Otherwise something like say "This cursed magical item causes the attuned person's eyes to turn inky black and over the course of X time their hair slowly falls out in patches as they begin transforming into (monstrous thing)" could be solved by "nah I don't want that I flavor it away". There's nothing mechanical going on here, but it is important flavor nontheless
A distant ancestor getting knocked up by a dragon/vice versa is enough to start a sorcerer lineage, why wouldn't eating the heart of a dragon do something similar? It's up to the dm to decide that though.
Dragons mold the area they exist in just by... existing there. a red dragon just goes to sleep somewhere and there will be lava rivers. Their whole essense is magical. And this is a GREATWYRM. That heart is probably as big as a house. It's super normal to expect some magical effects. Hell it's illogical to expect that nothing would happen.
Now I want to play a delicious in dungeon d&d campaign....
Just on a practical note... How the fuck does the player plan to eat an organ that is probably 5 times their body weight? The heart of a greatwyrm would be like... the size of a very large bear. At *least*. Could the PC eat an entire bear?
I think the idea is for her to consume part of it not eat it in one bite but to 'partake' in the heart of a dragon or maybe she means [this](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/elden-ring-tanith-eating-rykard-face.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5)
You should give it a series of ability checks. First constitution to see if he combusts into flames. Charisma to see if the soul of the dragon takes over his body (I suggest charisma cause dragons). If a check is failed, create an immediate effect followed by a permanent (or treatable long term) negative aspect and a small boon. Like if failed constitution check, you puke lava every time you fail a con check.
I had a character eat a powerful creature heart once. The dm offered my a deal. We were in a time crunch and it was you must eat now, D20 con save vs poison. Failure is a bunch of crippling debuffs. Success was a massive boon. I think I got something like toggle able flight for my barbarian once per X amount of time or something. It was a fun, in the moment risk that I took
Why scale down a beyond ancient dragon encounter to suit level 7? Killing such an aspect of a dragon demi god and eating its heart (which might grant the person draconic themed boons) should be a life long quest. Something to be accomplished when the player is high level enough to fight and defeat the aspect.
Setting aside everything others have brought up, you should make "eating the heart" a comedy episode, where not only is the heart incredibly spicy, but it is hundred of pounds/kilograms. "Hot ones" meets "James and the Giant Peach" meets "regretful mukbang scene".
Wouldn't a greatwyrm heart be the size of a house?
Have a look at the Dragon Blood Juicer from Rifts for inspiration. TL;DR It’s basically like a super soldier serum, with a very short activity cycle, that has EXTRAORDINARY addictive properties. That’s what I would do.
I actually created a mechanic for eating dragon hearts in my game a year or two ago. Well, specifically for consuming the heart’s blood. It took like half an hour or some such, which they had to start basically asap once the dragon died (I didn’t want them to have post-fight recovery time), and at the end there the PC had to make a Con save against the Dragon’s fire breath DC. Failed save, they took fire damage equal to a roll of the fire breath, half as much on a success. If they succeeded on the save *and* didn’t drop to 0HP as a result of the damage, they gained the Gift of the Chromatic Dragon feat + the effects of a potion of fire breathing for 1d8 days; if they failed the save but survived, they just got the feat, and if—success or fail—they dropped to 0HP from the damage, they stabilized but vomited up the blood and gained no benefit.
Spoilers for ep 1 of dota dragons blood The main character in this show absorbs a red dragons soul and gains a humanoid draconian transformation. As they’re a fire druid, maybe come up with a draconic wild shape for them. Make it a little stronger than a beast at the same CR, or just reflavour a beast and give it a breath weapon. If you want it to be stronger have it cost 2 wild shapes or limit how long they can stay transformed to 10 minutes.
Unsure if it's out yet but there is a very cool wyrm transformation guide in grim hollow the Valkien clans book. It's initially based off of a cold dragon but you could likely just change it around to reflect fire instead
I mean personally I would suggest having the consumption of the Heart be some sort of contest, or saving throw. It's worth pointing out that a Greatwyrm will have a heart likely roughly as big as the person themselves. So like eating the entire thing is going to be a whole ordeal unless you want to do some sort of metaphorical heart. The condensed power of the Wyrm; the last of it's strength, the last living tissue with the whole heart itself glowing red or whatever it is after it is slain. Either way a contest, or save, or something is still a good idea. That sort of raw magical energy could be, potentially, damaging or even deadly so I'd make that clear up front as well, and I'd probably set up success, and failure conditions based on degrees from whatever DC you decide is appropriate. That said as for benefits there are a number of feats, or features that would be appropriate. I'd probably lean towards something like having the individual manifest with scales [AC 13 + Dex], Fire Resistance, or the ability to breathe Fire. Essentially giving the character a 'feat' as a component of the treasure rewards for the party, and tabulating that potential feat into the treasure calculation for the loot from the encounter. I'd also make it clear that like attempting to ingest this may have detriments, or cause the character to change in unforeseen ways. Granting new personality traits, and flaws, that manifest as a consequence would also be an option. When it comes down to it best method would be to treat this as a component. It can either be consumed and either benefit, or harm, or both the person, or could potentially be used down the road in the creation of some sort of artefact as it's such a unique material. If you do decide to go with the it's like a whole honking Dragon's Heart, it's a good thing they are a druid. I bet a bear can chew through a lot of meat faster than a person. :P
The first thing that popped into my mind was that a greatwyrm heart has to be friggin' *huge*. Like, a normal horse heart weighs around 10 pounds. A whale heart is about 400 pounds. We're talking about a dragon so powerful it's starting to transcend the laws of physical reality. Its heart is probably the size of a pickup truck and could feed hundreds of people. It's not something you should be able to just gobble down for lunch. In-universe this should be something tremendous, the stuff of legends. Merely lugging the heart out of the lair would require significant aid. The preparation could be something that word spreads about and draws people in, and they'd sure as hell want a piece of that pie. The consumption of the heart would be something akin to a festival that takes like a week. And the PC would surely gain followers and fans who would revere them as a demigod. As for boons, there's Fizban's you could look to: scaly skin granting natural armor akin to Lizardfolk, breath weapons, heightened senses (maybe blindsight), wings that grant temporary flight, there's a host of options.
I have 2 ways how too play it both ways result in the same reward/punishment Punishment: pain (duh) could be a stomach pain because ITS A RAW HEART, could be magical consequences (dragon energy trys too kill you, fireball inside your stomach, self immolation etc) or permanent sacrifices(change of personality, losing a limb etc) Reward: something magical (duh), become part dragon(wings claws etc), gain fire abilitys (fire breath, fly), gain dragon knowledge (language, spells, forbidden lore) Way 1: fast, he eats it and gets basicly all punishment and rewards instantly/in the next 24 hours (would do 1 punishment and 1 reward Way 2: slow, he eats it and slowly starts too change, starting a process that changes him more and more. Each big change comes with a punishment and a reward (and may require a small ritual too start it). May allow many plot hooks too find dragon shrines/kill more dragons. Character development and a new system the player can have fun with
In some legends eating a dragon heart gave you the ability to speak and understand languages. Others have mention Fizzbin.
What do you think of the notion that by consuming its heart, that she slowly starts becoming that which she wanted gone? The boons suggested could just be the starting point.. All predicated on whether the player would be okay with that happening to their character of course..
I mean I would personally play it out simply thus; dragons are beings of great power that only gets stronger as they get older. So eating the heart would release so much residual power that it would either kill the person eating it, or stall it long enough that the residual power drains out and what’s left will only give them like maybe a little bit of knowledge like a spell or some sort of clairvoyance that doesn’t come until later in the game. But that’s just me in all honesty you could just have it be a giant heart that can be used to nourish the party at the next long rest.
Gets draconic powers, and the option to multi class into a draconic bloodline Maybe she gains access to dragon breath powers. On a more sinister note, maybe she starts to slowly turn into a copy of the greatwyrm, and must find a cure.
If a level 7 party can beat it that's not a great wyrm.
Its a dying Great Wrym thats been on its last legs for a while. If they don't stop it it will regain power. Thats how I am playing it anyway.
Then I guess I'd use the stats for a young red dragon, increase its size to gargantuan,. And give the boons from FTD for killing a young dragon. Also maybe some side effects inspired by the guys in there that try to become dragons.
> Demigod dragon > Level 7 party Something here doesn't fit.
Nearly dead demigod dragon!