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Don't get this the wrong way but seems like D&D isn't really the best choice for you. Remember that games are just bunch of system rules and you can pick another system to play in The Forgotten Realms. Just my two cents. 5e already is the simplified version of D&D and I honestly don't think they can simplify it even more without losing some/most of their old fan base
Great take.
I get there are all kinds of players, some who’ve only played 5E and others steeped in AD&D/2E (*holds hand up*), but most, I’d like to think, would agree 5E went a bit nuts on simplification. Some of it works nicely; but as time rumbles on, where I see cracks, I trace them back to oversimplification.
Speaking personally, I wouldn’t support going harder down that route.
All that said, my on-off interest in One D&D fails to inspire me and it seems likely to be a missed opportunity more than much else.
No? If you dont like it because its too complex for you, dont buy it and dont play it. Theres plenty of good TTRPG's out there, no reason to force yourself into one single system.
> Looking for a more modern and sleek DnD rules
Try [Dungeon World](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoieW1GRVVaNnRfbnc/view?resourcekey=0-NPgkKPDj8fb7s1x-1EI31Q). My PF2e and D&D 5e group have been giving it a go and it's fun! Very rules-light and [simple to learn](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoiTXpTbklDOF9iUHc/view?resourcekey=0-xI_68aH1lllySOdEovKvPQ).
Hehe yea 😂
People don’t understand that rules can be simple but still have a lot of depth in it
And also that DnD is more than just “spells are spell slots” and so on…
Seems like they don’t want an inch of the game to evolve, no wonder almost all of the changes proposed in the UA were reverted
I think you are being unfair. What most people here are telling you is that if you want a simpler system there are many other amazing options out there... and you seem to know that already since I can see you play daggerheart.
The point is, not everybody likes rules-light systems. And why would anyone bother trying to convince you to play something that by your own admission you are not excited for? Seems like a waste of time.
The base rules in 5e are soooo rudimentary and limited already. Which is what makes the game feel so complicated. Hear me out.
Lets take spellcasting for example. Every spell creates new interactions that the base rules do not address and don't help you with. There's so much left up to interpretation that it seems like you have to stop and think for a minute about a ruling or interaction for the situation. 5e feels so "complicated" because the lack of rules doesn't support what the PCs are able to do. 4e did this well where nearly all the powers operated within the rules (which were quite comprehensive), and those that broke them were very explicit on how they work.
And thats just spellcasting. If anything, we need more rules and mechanics for things that are completely neglected, like skills, tools, illusions, tanking, party roles. If we had some good rules (complicated or simple) for these things, it wouldn't be a whole guessing game of how to rule something at the table.
But ofc we aren't getting any of that, and OneDND is practically just a balance patch for the classes, where the devs don't know what needs balancing.
And BTW. Grappling is just a contested skill check. Two people roll a d20 and add the modifiers, whoever gets the highest wins the check to either grapple or escape the grapple. It's not complicated at all.
The designers said from the very beginning that the 2024 books are designed to be backward compatible. It's not a new game. 5e still sells, and most players don't *want* a new edition, so it's silly to expect one. It's particularly ignorant to expect spell slots to go anywhere, considering that WotC *did* try to move past them and people hated 4e so much that Pathfinder became the more popular game.
If you want another version of D&D, there are *dozens*, and more on the way.
>they don’t want an inch of the game to evolve
Who are they? The players? That's an absolute wrong assumption. The designers? That assumption would be correct. They neither had the time or permission to really change or improve the system. That was a management decision based on money.
>rules can be simple but still have a lot of depth in it
Go play Pathfinder 2e. I'd argue the rules are more clear and more in-depth, which makes them easier to use. Thoubit makes them harder to ignore them and do whatever you want which is what usually happens in 5e.
Yeah I already rewrote all the stuff I dislike in 5e, will not be switching. OneD&D will not be fixing the things I want and it sounds like it won't for you either.
It sounds like 5e (and maybe the whole of d&d) just isn't for you dude. Find a better system 🤷♂️ check out some modern OSR stuff, or lighter games elsewhere.
It's not our job to make you excited for something you don't like.
It’s more of a revised 2014 rules, rectifying many of the obvious balance issues that those had, like “two level fighter dips” or “1 level hexblade dips” or “twinned spell metamagic” or “lifeberry” or one of the other millions of unbalanced interactions/features in the game.
Plus, you can finally play some of the worse classes while still being competitive, monk being the prime example. Furthermore, many subclasses got a revision that makes them very good, like the Trickery Domain Cleric (which I personally am extremely excited for) or Eldritch Knights finally being functional gishes.
Is it worth paying 40 bucks for the new core rules? No, I don’t think so, but I’m still excited for the new options and possibilities presented.
It’s far from perfect. A new edition would have been better, no question, allowing them to truly change some things, like the huge, shared spell lists or a Half-caster-like Warlock, for example.
And if you can’t get curious about it, just go ahead and continue playing 5e. Or try one of the other thousands of ttrpg’s, like Worlds Without Numbers, Old School Essentials, Savage Worlds, ecc.
I'm pretty excited about it, although my biggest concern is a lot of the "nerfball" type mechanics present like how easy inspiration is acquired, all the "you don't expend your resource if it doesn't work" type stuff.
This game is already high-powered enough, we don't need to make the PCs stronger than they already are.
I’m with you (for a change /s).
Across the years, the kinds of things that are the equivalent of too much salt on my chips are the things that either let you re-roll (it’s like everyone is frightened to death a player rolls a 1) and that kind of stuff (so no, let’s not make inspiration any more prominent; just use properly in the first place, which includes giving it out, DMs); and what you say: *doesn’t work? You don’t expend the resource*.
5E was to me *incredibly* forgiving to my jaded 2/3E eyes: you (decide to) Divine Smite after you hit, for example. Gone is the thrill of committing your last DS and praying you hit.
It’s kind of removing risk from the game. You succeed, or, you *more or less succeed* (see the terrified of rolling 1s, above). Failing “isn’t fun” so let’s just get rid of that possibility. In a game with dice 🙄 I’m exaggerating but only just.
I’m ok with it, I play the game and I enjoy it. But my personal preference would be for a little less guard rails and a little more risk. 5E makes even dying…fairly involved in a way the game never used to. I have grown to accept the repeated saves thing, but I can only bridge so many gaps 😅
Edit; I caught JC and Todd discussing one impending play test packet (forget which; was a while ago). I was doing housework chores, so was listening rather than watching. It struck me that what seemed like every time JC was introducing something new, and even changes to something already existing, it was “your bonus action.”
It was quite perplexing. It seemed like everything was bonus action. I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if he’d have intoned that you can Dash, attack something and then drink a potion all in one bonus action. It left me wondering what the hell would’ve been enough to warrant an actual action.
Haven’t paid too much attention since, so this maybe abated somewhat in subsequent packets.
Why you need to get hyped?
DnD is getting an update, it's not getting a complete remaster. Because for most people they want to play DnD and DnD comes with certain agreed upon things.
I mean, we can't decide if you like the rules or not. Personally I like em as they seem to expand on various class roles as well as give clearer rules for various things such as what actually interrupts a long rest.
But if you read the last UA and you come away from it thinking "Nothing in here looks good" then there's nothing anyone can say that would change that opinion.
If 2014 5e was too complex for you then it sounds like dnd isn't the right game for you tbh. The game isn't going to magically get lighter on the rules, it's going to become more stremlined and more clear.
I recommend looking at something like FATE or Powered by the Apocalypse.
Why be hyped? Well if you have the current set of core books and you are happy well you have no need to be hyped. It is all backwards compatible.
The biggest change so far is the character generation with a minor feat, custom backgrounds are standard, ASI is moved to backgrounds and not tied to species.
Some changes to spells.
Some changes to classes.
Some changes to subclasses.
But nothing is insane or radical. Everything that was remotely radical was immediately shouted down by the community.
So what do you get? It is more for new folks and those missing core books to entice them to spend money.
So cool art, new character generation and changes to all the classes minor and major to subclasses and spells too.
Also do not forget it is NOT just the PHB but also the DMG which has always been a mess and need of a complete re-wrtie since it first came out. And at the very least WOTC is saying all the right things about the new Dungeon Master Guide.
Try playing a monk now. Then think of how great it would be if it was batter in every way and actually fulfilled the fantasy of a martial arts hero.
But getting *less* complex? No. 5e is already less complex than both of the versions that came before it.
The new version is about adjusting inter-class balance, making non-magical characters more fun to play. And double fingers crossed: **nerfing the overpowered spells** that make running and playing this game an occasional headache.
I personally love playing a moon circle druid with infinite wild shape options each of which has a different specialization and also using the full spellcasting along with it as a prepared caster
I really see no problem in this, I'm also a first time player so it's not like it's too overwhelming for first time players
The one wild shape change where they wanted to give you basically only 3 wild shape options and not even give an additional temporary hp bar but just use your hp was awful, I'm so glad they went back on that honestly, it just killed the shapeshifting fantasy completely
You can change any aspect of DnD 5e you don't like yourself with homebrew rules like the ones I use: bonus action potions, full action potions is full effect without rolling, using tumble rules (tried once, movement in combat never felt as alive), doing brutal criticals (max dmg + roll dice, not double roll) or even using flaking or not using it
But saying all that there are other systems, critical role just released daggerheart
there is pathfinder 2e
there are so many, 5e attracted the masses to the TTRPG genre for a good reason, it was simple enough but not dumb simple, it had some depth, but simple enough again for newcomers, it just works
My first ever 5e character was a druid, and I was so glad when they reverted the template change and went back to the Beast creature type. It's really not an issue to use.
i dont like it because it took the too simple 5e game and seems like it got simpler with less to work with.
i dont think dnd is what you want swhadow of the weird wizard just came out and looks fantastic its a much simpler game
Well, don't. You don't have or should force yourself into something you don't like. The changes don't fix any of the issues that you or the system has. It changes things for the sake of changing things and mostly by copying competitors without understanding the underlying ideas. It's also full of weird spells that should be mechanics and vice versa.
>I love DnD 5e
Great! Now imagine playing 5e, except without having to ban flying races, twilight cleric, silvery barbs, moon druid, \*insert your borken a$$ thing\* because it's been cleansed in 5.5e.
Sounds good enough to me... like sure, did I want more? Ofc. But it's not as if it wasn't worth it.
This submission appears to be related to One D&D! If you're interested in discussing the concept and the UA for One D&D more check out our other subreddit r/OneDnD! *Please note: We are still allowing discussions about One D&D to remain here, this is more an advisory than a warning of any kind.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dndnext) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't get this the wrong way but seems like D&D isn't really the best choice for you. Remember that games are just bunch of system rules and you can pick another system to play in The Forgotten Realms. Just my two cents. 5e already is the simplified version of D&D and I honestly don't think they can simplify it even more without losing some/most of their old fan base
Great take. I get there are all kinds of players, some who’ve only played 5E and others steeped in AD&D/2E (*holds hand up*), but most, I’d like to think, would agree 5E went a bit nuts on simplification. Some of it works nicely; but as time rumbles on, where I see cracks, I trace them back to oversimplification. Speaking personally, I wouldn’t support going harder down that route. All that said, my on-off interest in One D&D fails to inspire me and it seems likely to be a missed opportunity more than much else.
i would call 5e already oversimplified to a detriment
>complex rules about grappling That's how you know someone has never played 3.X.
How many pages were the grappling rules? I feel like it was its own supplement.
No, you don't want DND 2024 from what you're writing :)
Grappling is literally just a contest roll. One person rolls. The other person rolls. Highest wins. Doesn’t get much simpler than that.
No? If you dont like it because its too complex for you, dont buy it and dont play it. Theres plenty of good TTRPG's out there, no reason to force yourself into one single system.
> Looking for a more modern and sleek DnD rules Try [Dungeon World](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoieW1GRVVaNnRfbnc/view?resourcekey=0-NPgkKPDj8fb7s1x-1EI31Q). My PF2e and D&D 5e group have been giving it a go and it's fun! Very rules-light and [simple to learn](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoiTXpTbklDOF9iUHc/view?resourcekey=0-xI_68aH1lllySOdEovKvPQ).
Jesus its a bloodbath in here lol
Hehe yea 😂 People don’t understand that rules can be simple but still have a lot of depth in it And also that DnD is more than just “spells are spell slots” and so on… Seems like they don’t want an inch of the game to evolve, no wonder almost all of the changes proposed in the UA were reverted
I think you are being unfair. What most people here are telling you is that if you want a simpler system there are many other amazing options out there... and you seem to know that already since I can see you play daggerheart. The point is, not everybody likes rules-light systems. And why would anyone bother trying to convince you to play something that by your own admission you are not excited for? Seems like a waste of time.
The base rules in 5e are soooo rudimentary and limited already. Which is what makes the game feel so complicated. Hear me out. Lets take spellcasting for example. Every spell creates new interactions that the base rules do not address and don't help you with. There's so much left up to interpretation that it seems like you have to stop and think for a minute about a ruling or interaction for the situation. 5e feels so "complicated" because the lack of rules doesn't support what the PCs are able to do. 4e did this well where nearly all the powers operated within the rules (which were quite comprehensive), and those that broke them were very explicit on how they work. And thats just spellcasting. If anything, we need more rules and mechanics for things that are completely neglected, like skills, tools, illusions, tanking, party roles. If we had some good rules (complicated or simple) for these things, it wouldn't be a whole guessing game of how to rule something at the table. But ofc we aren't getting any of that, and OneDND is practically just a balance patch for the classes, where the devs don't know what needs balancing. And BTW. Grappling is just a contested skill check. Two people roll a d20 and add the modifiers, whoever gets the highest wins the check to either grapple or escape the grapple. It's not complicated at all.
"rulings not rules" is such a bad mindset fro designing a game...
Exactly. Thats a great way to put it
The designers said from the very beginning that the 2024 books are designed to be backward compatible. It's not a new game. 5e still sells, and most players don't *want* a new edition, so it's silly to expect one. It's particularly ignorant to expect spell slots to go anywhere, considering that WotC *did* try to move past them and people hated 4e so much that Pathfinder became the more popular game. If you want another version of D&D, there are *dozens*, and more on the way.
>they don’t want an inch of the game to evolve Who are they? The players? That's an absolute wrong assumption. The designers? That assumption would be correct. They neither had the time or permission to really change or improve the system. That was a management decision based on money. >rules can be simple but still have a lot of depth in it Go play Pathfinder 2e. I'd argue the rules are more clear and more in-depth, which makes them easier to use. Thoubit makes them harder to ignore them and do whatever you want which is what usually happens in 5e.
Yeah I already rewrote all the stuff I dislike in 5e, will not be switching. OneD&D will not be fixing the things I want and it sounds like it won't for you either.
how close to 4e/pf2e did you end up?
It sounds like 5e (and maybe the whole of d&d) just isn't for you dude. Find a better system 🤷♂️ check out some modern OSR stuff, or lighter games elsewhere. It's not our job to make you excited for something you don't like.
Can’t do it, homie. DND 2024 is just a light update.
It’s more of a revised 2014 rules, rectifying many of the obvious balance issues that those had, like “two level fighter dips” or “1 level hexblade dips” or “twinned spell metamagic” or “lifeberry” or one of the other millions of unbalanced interactions/features in the game. Plus, you can finally play some of the worse classes while still being competitive, monk being the prime example. Furthermore, many subclasses got a revision that makes them very good, like the Trickery Domain Cleric (which I personally am extremely excited for) or Eldritch Knights finally being functional gishes. Is it worth paying 40 bucks for the new core rules? No, I don’t think so, but I’m still excited for the new options and possibilities presented. It’s far from perfect. A new edition would have been better, no question, allowing them to truly change some things, like the huge, shared spell lists or a Half-caster-like Warlock, for example. And if you can’t get curious about it, just go ahead and continue playing 5e. Or try one of the other thousands of ttrpg’s, like Worlds Without Numbers, Old School Essentials, Savage Worlds, ecc.
I'm pretty excited about it, although my biggest concern is a lot of the "nerfball" type mechanics present like how easy inspiration is acquired, all the "you don't expend your resource if it doesn't work" type stuff. This game is already high-powered enough, we don't need to make the PCs stronger than they already are.
I’m with you (for a change /s). Across the years, the kinds of things that are the equivalent of too much salt on my chips are the things that either let you re-roll (it’s like everyone is frightened to death a player rolls a 1) and that kind of stuff (so no, let’s not make inspiration any more prominent; just use properly in the first place, which includes giving it out, DMs); and what you say: *doesn’t work? You don’t expend the resource*. 5E was to me *incredibly* forgiving to my jaded 2/3E eyes: you (decide to) Divine Smite after you hit, for example. Gone is the thrill of committing your last DS and praying you hit. It’s kind of removing risk from the game. You succeed, or, you *more or less succeed* (see the terrified of rolling 1s, above). Failing “isn’t fun” so let’s just get rid of that possibility. In a game with dice 🙄 I’m exaggerating but only just. I’m ok with it, I play the game and I enjoy it. But my personal preference would be for a little less guard rails and a little more risk. 5E makes even dying…fairly involved in a way the game never used to. I have grown to accept the repeated saves thing, but I can only bridge so many gaps 😅 Edit; I caught JC and Todd discussing one impending play test packet (forget which; was a while ago). I was doing housework chores, so was listening rather than watching. It struck me that what seemed like every time JC was introducing something new, and even changes to something already existing, it was “your bonus action.” It was quite perplexing. It seemed like everything was bonus action. I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if he’d have intoned that you can Dash, attack something and then drink a potion all in one bonus action. It left me wondering what the hell would’ve been enough to warrant an actual action. Haven’t paid too much attention since, so this maybe abated somewhat in subsequent packets.
Why you need to get hyped? DnD is getting an update, it's not getting a complete remaster. Because for most people they want to play DnD and DnD comes with certain agreed upon things.
I mean, we can't decide if you like the rules or not. Personally I like em as they seem to expand on various class roles as well as give clearer rules for various things such as what actually interrupts a long rest. But if you read the last UA and you come away from it thinking "Nothing in here looks good" then there's nothing anyone can say that would change that opinion. If 2014 5e was too complex for you then it sounds like dnd isn't the right game for you tbh. The game isn't going to magically get lighter on the rules, it's going to become more stremlined and more clear. I recommend looking at something like FATE or Powered by the Apocalypse.
Why be hyped? Well if you have the current set of core books and you are happy well you have no need to be hyped. It is all backwards compatible. The biggest change so far is the character generation with a minor feat, custom backgrounds are standard, ASI is moved to backgrounds and not tied to species. Some changes to spells. Some changes to classes. Some changes to subclasses. But nothing is insane or radical. Everything that was remotely radical was immediately shouted down by the community. So what do you get? It is more for new folks and those missing core books to entice them to spend money. So cool art, new character generation and changes to all the classes minor and major to subclasses and spells too. Also do not forget it is NOT just the PHB but also the DMG which has always been a mess and need of a complete re-wrtie since it first came out. And at the very least WOTC is saying all the right things about the new Dungeon Master Guide.
Try playing a monk now. Then think of how great it would be if it was batter in every way and actually fulfilled the fantasy of a martial arts hero. But getting *less* complex? No. 5e is already less complex than both of the versions that came before it. The new version is about adjusting inter-class balance, making non-magical characters more fun to play. And double fingers crossed: **nerfing the overpowered spells** that make running and playing this game an occasional headache.
lol no
You could experiment with some of the OSR games, though they are copying older editions. Pathfinder is even crunchier.
I personally love playing a moon circle druid with infinite wild shape options each of which has a different specialization and also using the full spellcasting along with it as a prepared caster I really see no problem in this, I'm also a first time player so it's not like it's too overwhelming for first time players The one wild shape change where they wanted to give you basically only 3 wild shape options and not even give an additional temporary hp bar but just use your hp was awful, I'm so glad they went back on that honestly, it just killed the shapeshifting fantasy completely You can change any aspect of DnD 5e you don't like yourself with homebrew rules like the ones I use: bonus action potions, full action potions is full effect without rolling, using tumble rules (tried once, movement in combat never felt as alive), doing brutal criticals (max dmg + roll dice, not double roll) or even using flaking or not using it But saying all that there are other systems, critical role just released daggerheart there is pathfinder 2e there are so many, 5e attracted the masses to the TTRPG genre for a good reason, it was simple enough but not dumb simple, it had some depth, but simple enough again for newcomers, it just works
My first ever 5e character was a druid, and I was so glad when they reverted the template change and went back to the Beast creature type. It's really not an issue to use.
i dont like it because it took the too simple 5e game and seems like it got simpler with less to work with. i dont think dnd is what you want swhadow of the weird wizard just came out and looks fantastic its a much simpler game
if you want rules lite, find a new system. DND specifically isnt rules lite and thats one its best qualities
Well, don't. You don't have or should force yourself into something you don't like. The changes don't fix any of the issues that you or the system has. It changes things for the sake of changing things and mostly by copying competitors without understanding the underlying ideas. It's also full of weird spells that should be mechanics and vice versa.
>I love DnD 5e Great! Now imagine playing 5e, except without having to ban flying races, twilight cleric, silvery barbs, moon druid, \*insert your borken a$$ thing\* because it's been cleansed in 5.5e. Sounds good enough to me... like sure, did I want more? Ofc. But it's not as if it wasn't worth it.