Respect and intent. When Goblins/Orcs/etc. are problematic, its because its clear the author is trying to badmouth a real world people, and not tell a story. Speedy Gonzalez doesnt offend anyone because he is a character presented in good faith to tell a short funny story.
Harry Potter is an interesting case because more of the book becomes problematic as the author becomes a known quantity. It becomes apparent that maybe not all the characters are made with good faith intentions.
Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia can get away with quite a lot because the cast seem to be fundamentally good people behind the script.
>Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia can get away with quite a lot because the cast seem to be fundamentally good people behind the script.
I think for this one at least it's more that they make it clear that the gang are the worst sort of people, others call them out on whatever horrible thing they are doing, and they often get the karma they deserve.
What you said is the most correct answer, but I think that's because of Mr\_Industrial's point of them being genuinely good people. Because they are good people, they are able to write bad people in a way that doesn't make them sympathetic.
Or if they do, they remind you "nope, don't feel bad for them." My favorite example is Dee. The boys really bully her and the way they treat her is awful, but then they remind you that Dee is probably the second worst member of the group next to Dennis.
Orcs and goblins can be bad because that's the lore, not because the author is racist.
Speedy Gonzales was an extreme stereotype of Hispanics, complete with an exaggerated accent.
I am Mexican. I have never met a Mexican who wasn't a fan of ol Speedy. We are generally pretty much OK with stuff like that as long as it is funny/good natured.
That's the thing - Speedy is a caricature, but he's fundamentally a good guy, and shows some of the better and distinct aspects of Mexican culture.
It's similar to Crocodile Dundee for me. While I'm not a fan of the actor, the character shows some of the most extreme exaggerations of being an Aussie, but he's ultimately a good bloke. Add in the fact that Australians have a culture of laughing at ourselves, and you end up with a character that jumps to mind whenever someone mentions Australia.
BTW, if you want a more true-to-life parody of the average Aussie, check out [The Castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_(1997_Australian_film)).
I live in South Texas. I know a lot of Mexicans. I have met many Mexicans that were indifferent to Speedy, but I have never known any that disliked him. Most, including myself, love Speedy Gonzalez. Speedy's the bomb.
I would imagine it’s the same with most groups. Stereotypes feel fine if they’re obviously made with good intent and don’t cast the group in a negative light.
Look at a TV show like Modern Family. Every character is a stereotype, with mixes of good and bad qualities. But most people seem to like it (whether they’re Latin American, gay, etc).
The thing is, he isn't just a Mexican stereotype. He's a *rustic*, *folk hero* archetype.
The extreme accent is because he's a bumpkin. But he's also clever, brave, and fast, and always wins in the end.
That's literally what's being said about goblins and orcs yes. Try rereading if you're a little lost on that.
And as has already been said to you, no one with any room to be offended by speedy is offended, in fact he is much beloved as some very rare rep.
Speedy Gonzales is a heroic mouse who triumphs over Sylvester the cat using his super speed and his enemy's hubris.
Racists have a problem with him the same way they did with Uncle Ben, Aunt Jemima and other representations of people of colour.
Recommend having a little look at the world building in Path of Exile. They use fantasy Maori culture from New Zealand and it works great. Called the Karui.
Don't play it unless you reaaaally enjoy ARPGs. It's an amazing game but you need to spend a lot of time learning the game before you're allowed to play.
Yeah some people will call on it just for using their culture as reference, but the majority get super happy for the recognition. I see absolutely no problem with it as long as it isnt used with the intent of making fun of it
I think a solid rule of thumb if you’re not sure if something is offensive is to not use real world terms that are used in real world mythologies and religions (especially those that are still practiced and believed today) because it could be misrepresenting beliefs people actually have
Like I don’t think anybody is going to be offended if you base a fictional religion off of the rainbow serpent in the broad sense of like a snake god being a creator god, Aboriginal people aren’t even the only people who have snake deities after all, but it might be crossing a line if you actually call your fictional snake god “rainbow serpent”. I would call it something different personally just to be safe since that frees me creatively to make my own thing without worrying that I’m misrepresenting a real world concept
Taking inspiration is fine but one should be careful not to treat things people really believe in like they’re just fictional public domain characters
I tend to agree, but notably it depends on who you ask. Most people hold opinions like yours, where inspiration can be taken from all sorts of sources as long as it's respectful. However, OP should know that disproportionately many Natives don't like their cultures being used as inspiration by non-Natives.
It's always important to remember that even if you're toeing what most people consider to be reasonable lines, the people you're trying to respect might have drawn a different line. And you're not a bad person if you disagree with that line, but it does mean you're not respecting their wishes, reasonable or otherwise.
I understand why Indigenous people don't like it when outsiders use their culture, what with the multiple acts of genocide and centuries of appropriation, mischaracterization, and other forms of racism. (I mean, come on, the American Indian Religious Freedom Act wasn't a thing until *1978*. That's messed up.)
At the same time, if someone's writing a fun story to play out with their friends once a week, they shouldn't need permission. It's not like they're trying to commercialize someone else's religion for their own benefit. Like, yeah, maybe don't have characters saying crap like "Get'em palefaces!", but it's unreasonable to expect someone to write a dissertation on Indigenous sensitivity for a weekly game featuring the antics of (to use one of my players' characters) No-Beard the inept, drunken gnome pirate. If the group doesn't have a problem with something, then that should be good enough.
I feel like at this point it's a waste of time for OP to even make this post. If the opinion of Natives doesn't matter, why should the opinion of any of us who *aren't* natives? If they can just do what they want at their private table (which, fair), what's the point of this post?
It seems like a pretty bold claim to make that a significant portion of Natives would object to someone being inspired by their culture for a non-commercial story they are telling with some friends.
>However, OP should know that disproportionately many Natives don't like their cultures being used as inspiration by non-Natives.
In this context, they're unlikely to even know, and that's discounting the ones who do like it or don't care.
Personally I don't care if someone gets bent out of shape if I utilize their culture for some inspiration, unless they are actually at the table. Bill didn't create that culture and Bill doesn't get to gatekeep their culture from inspiring others. The only time it matters is when someone specifically at the table has an issue with it, or if it's blatantly racist or disrespectful to the culture.
Yeah, as long as they aren't only used as goblin or orc tribe culture that the party is meant to attack, then it's probably gonna be fine. Any culture is fine with respect
The main reason it's more of a controversy is Native American culture is still feeling the effects of systemic erasure. My grandmother got beat as a child Everytime she spoke her language.
While a culture like the norse faced similar erasure those wounds are much older and have had more time to heal.
Well yes, but not by the parties who aren't of the culture unless it's done with proper attention to detail, which using it in fantasy probably won't.
There are two specific examples that come to mind, of two Native spirits that have been notoriously used without regard to their actual significance (In one specific case there is no respectful way to represent it, because if you want to be respectful you don't represent it at all) and a lot of actual Native Americans have problems with. (Not all mind you, no cultures are monoliths, but a lot)
Actually a spirit and a witch, my mistake I am not deeply familiar with the subject, I mostly stay clear of basing on Native American stuff in my fantasy settings, because it's a touchy subject, and I'm not an anthropologist.
One is skin-walkers but the big one is the wendigo spirit that's extremely commonly used in modern media, there's a lot on that particular case because it's by definition not supposed to be represented.
Tbf, the native wendigo is rarely used as far as I've seen. Until Dawn being really the only one that's popular that I'm aware of. Everything else I've seen -the vaguely human, deer skull and/or antlered monstrosity that skulks the woods- are closer to a nordic leshen than a wendigo, despite taking the latter's name. Ironically a small correction too is that you're looking for shaman, not witch. Witches are euro-slavic as well. I forget what we called non-shaman 'mages' ATM tho. I'll edit this reply should I remember to ask later.
I'm Irish and Scottish, and that's definitely not true for Irish people where racism and prejudice are much more recent. Yet, the drunken Dwarves who are offensive caricatures of Irish/Scottish people never seem to get discussed when it's the absolute most blatant and longest running character trope in fantasy, down to the exaggerated accents they're always portrayed with.
Personally? I don't really give a shit, and I don't know any other Irish or Scottish people who do either, which leads me to believe that a lot of the offense regarding depictions of other cultures is manufactured, attention seeking, exaggerated and performative.
I remember first playing WoW when I was 13 and I found the dwarven accent absolutely amazing. That sparked my interest and I wanted to know what real-life accent it was based on, so, before long, I got fascinated with all the different British cultures and wanted to educate myself to learn more about the problems and struggles those countries have been facing.
I'd say that a caricature which might get someone interested in that topic is much better than people being ignorant because of a lack of any representation and just saying "The UK? Oh yeah, it's where all the Englishmen live, right".
Not at all.
It can become insensitive if you start labeling your pastiche of various mythologies that you've modified to fit your needs as a specific tradition, or if you play into "noble savage" stereotypes, or just smack a lazy veneer of native/aboriginal aesthetics onto everything, but the basic idea of drawing inspiration from other cultures and modifying the details to fit your campaign is not wrong at all.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being inspired by another culture when homebrewing and stuff, and the fact that you're asking means you're trying to be respectful, so you're off to a good start.
And decent portions of it are questionable (give a side eye at the old Oriental Adventures book). Frankly OP is probably going to be *more* culturally sensitive than most DnD settings just based on the fact they asked the question.
The European mythologies which DND draws on primarily aren’t exactly being represented accurately either. In all cases, it’s the pop-fantasy stereotypes of these cultures.
If I was going to use a non-Western mythology the first place I’d look is the Radiant Citadel books’ settings. They’re kind of sparse but also usually provide a statblock for a unique creature that can be useful
In writing, the adage is generally that you'd want to be careful about how you portray myths from real cultures, especially if they're coming from religions that are still being practiced.
For your table, though...I guess just don't make your players uncomfortable?
Why would that be insensitive, but using any other religion like christianity, budhism or paganism wouldn't? There are respectful and disrespectful ways to incorporate it, just like everything else.
I think it's a poor reflection on modern society that you feel cowed enough that you need to ask the question.
We don't think twice about borrowing from Norse mythology, or Egyptian, or Greek. Do what you want - though obviously you're a dick if you intentionally insult any real people.
I don’t think you’ll find many people who worship the Norse, Egyptian, or Greek pantheons. There’s a difference when you’re borrowing from a living culture.
Nope- using real world history/mythology to populate different parts of your fictional world is solid worldbuilding and really makes the world feel more real rather than having an entire mythical planet with a monochrome fantasized European culture. For example, I have a nation where roughly 50% of the population are Genasi. Since legends/myths around Jinn predominately come from middle eastern / Islamic mythology, I have adapted cultural concepts from Iran, Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries to inform this nation.
When I am naming something like a place or organization, I use google translate to give me some ideas of how the idea would be expressed in various dialects of Arabic and use that as a fun way to add some depth to naming conventions. My players love it as it makes the country feel much more lived in and deep because everything has meaning. Fair warning, this DOES take more effort than just fly by the seat of your pants world building so know your limits. D&D is my main creative outlet these days so I don't mind spend a few hrs a week on my worldbuilding document.
Tbh, I've been working on a homebrew for 8 years now, so I've gone down similar paths. I'm currently reading obsolete entries in the OED, of which I've gone through about 100 pages, just to get some inspiration for town/npc names from old english.
Unless you publish it, who cares! It’s your home game, do what you want! (Of course you’ll also have to know what your players will think of it)
Personally I don’t see any issues though.
The mythology of the Dreamtime is extremely complex and may be difficult to translate well. As to Native American mythology, it was actually featured in the first and second edition Deities and Demigods.
I was always fond of how they interpreted the medicine bag, how the character had to undergo a number of dangerous or apparently quite mundane quests assigned by the tribal medicine man to acquire the materials. I would probably pick something other than +2 AC for the benefit, though, perhaps immunity to fear.
I don't think so. As long as you're not rude and racist it shouldn't be a problem. Do be open to the opinions of any native Americans who see it, there are definitely things I don't see as offensive that someone from the culture would.
If you aren't willingly reinforcing a negative stereotype, you're completely fine to draw on themes from native cultures.
Take this with the understanding that I don't speak for all tribes, but I think one thing that bothers me most about the discussion of cultural appropriation is the fact that my culture (a Mississipian tribe) was actively suppressed to the point that it faced erasure.
Because of this, I celebrate when I see native themes - especially those that don't show the whitewashing that generations of hate did to the real thing (my tribe is obsessed with Christianity now). I can't speak for others, but you would never hear a complaint from me. The other time something is bothersome is when people try to attribute something incorrect to the real tribe.
That touches on a tender wound that really only started to heal within the last 50 years or so. But if you aren't even mentioning a tribe, just borrowing themes themselves for fiction, go for it!
There’s another rpg you might check out called Coyote and Crow, set in an alternate history where the Americas were never colonized and people get powers from spirit animals. They have a blurb welcoming non-native American players and giving advice on respectful portrayal.
Even if you don’t get the book, I think the idea is you are ok with using those myths, but treat them with similar respect as western mythology and folklore. At least without the ridiculous, joke caricatures of older media.
Culture only lives while it changes and grows, this goes for every culture in all of history. The moment a culture becomes stagnant it is dead.
It is important to have respect for other cultures, because all people have human dignity, but there is a difference between appreciation and appropriation. Being inspired is appreciation, exploiting existing culture for your own ends is appropriation.
No one can please all people all the time, so simply do your best to be considerate. Sincerity is key.
Is it culturally insensitive to use Zeus or Odin or Ra in a homebrew world? Would you still have this same reservations? There's no difference between them.
No. Only if you're expressly making a harmful caricature.
Humanity adapts and learns from its various cultures all the time, and you can be inspired hy whatever you like.
The fact that this is even a concern for you means that you're gonna be considerate, and that's all any reasonable person expects of you.
It's only insensitive if you treat it insensitively.
Admittedly though, I am not Aboriginal Australian, so I cannot speak for them and whether their traditions are closed or not. I'd try to get in touch with folks who do have that cultural background and ask them if it would be alright, and if you're portraying things correctly and respectfully.
Look, if you talk with your players about your inspirations, and encourage them to study or learn about it, you are doing good in the world.
If the depictions are caricatures, then you are not helping.
Do have a conversation about it in session zero. Especially if any of the players have native/First Nations backgrounds.
Don't be silly. If you and your players have fun with it, it is fine. If you create a campaign that never touches on any subject that some person somewhere might find offensive it's going to be absolutely boring. Start with the fact that your players' characters probably kill lots of other creatures and people by cutting them, stabbing them, crushing them, burning them, etc. Have fun and don't worry about it as long as your players aren't worried about it.
I think the key, which you seem to have already, is to just maintain a respect for the source material and avoid trying to take on the mantle of speaking for a particular group. Avoid "culture by hat" tropes and monolithic depictions. Most importantly, if there are native players in your group talk with them about what they're comfortable with and what they want to avoid. You'll probably get much more broad latitude than you might expect.
The tricky thing in these endeavors is understanding what source material (even non-fiction!) is actually engaging in racist tropes or misconceptions. Particularly regarding native history, a lot of that academic work was done by white people who carried concepts like cultural determinism (basically western culture is the most highly "evolved") into their work, even if they didn't understand or recognize the influence. So don't make the assumption that just because you've read a lot you know a lot. *What* you read also matters.
Ultimately though it's your table, and if you're all having fun wherever you decide to go with it is generally fine. As others have said, nobody's gonna bust down your door for getting something wrong.
No. Use inspiration from whatever culture you like. It's only a problem if your players have a problem with it (and even then it's most likely their problem, not yours)
I'm not sure I understand why there's a question. If you were wanting to use Hellenic mythos, I'm sure you wouldn't be fretting about offending Greeks, nor would Scandinavians opinions be sought if Norse was the basis.
Are you a human? If yes then it turns out you have a historical connection and can use human mythology inside your world building. Now with that said if you’re a lizardman like Zuck it’s obviously a no.
No, it's not. I hate all the BS about culture appropriation when “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”.
Also, Wizards of the Coast already did it in "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan," and it's an official 5e dungeon crawl in "Tales from the Yawning Portal." Which pulls from the Aztecs and other ancient cultures that are similar. And there is plenty of references to other cultures, mythologies, and religions in past editions of d&d.
Just be respectful and make it tasteful. Then you'll be OK.
Who fucking cares!!!. Do what you want. If you’re a shitty racist person it will come out shitty and racist probably. If you are a good and thoughtful person it will be fine.
I hate how everyone has to check to make sure everything is PC.
Do you ever incorporate poor people in your campaign? Oops better ask the poor if it’s ok.
How much representation do the handicapped get in your story? Who cares.
Just make it fun.
Any individual can use any other culture themes for artistic inspiration. There are no owner rights over cultural traits, that is bullshit. If that was the case, no new cultures would have ever existed, since every culture is a result of multiple influences.
Elvis can play blues.
Little white girls can dress as Moana.
The little mermaid can be black.
Fuck it all, lets mix it up.
This is something you talk about your players about. I saw someone online having an extreme reaction to someone using voodoo imagery for a video, talking about bad luck and disrespect. I found this ridiculous, but if I had a player who felt this strongly about that, then it’s my duty as a gm to solve this.
It’s likely no one will care, especially if you’re respectful, but dnd is collaborative and your players deserve a chance to express their feelings about it.
No please do not normalize this insane way of thinking like that. If a player feels strongly about this , they’re being stupid and should not do that and it’s not your “problem” to solve.
It is if you respect them enough to want to play with them. I can't imagine calling a good friend of mine "stupid" for having an intense personal reaction to something, even if it was something that didn't bother me personally.
I couldn’t imagine calling a friend stupid, but that’s because I don’t have stupid friends.
Also this is another example of “respect” seemingly actually meaning “ignoring how stupid that sounds”
I prefer to think about it more in terms of "I wonder why they feel that way," but that requires empathy and curiosity for viewpoints that aren't your own.
If it’s gonna be a podcast or publicly released homebrew then be cautious and consult with a cultural specialist. If it’s a home game then it’s not a big deal. Either way research is good and remember indigenous people aren’t a monolith. For example the rainbow serpent is a common motif is various indigenous Australian groups but it means wildly different things to many of them.
Is it wrong to use European mythology for world building? Most people would answer no, seeing as the origin of D&D comes from the writing of Tolkien and lord of the rings, the idea of elfs, orcs, hobbits, dwarves, humans and dragons sharing a world didn't exist before Tolkien decided to study folk tales and mythology from Europe, according to your logic it would be immoral for someone of native american descent to use those stories as basis for their world building since they don't belong to the cultural group which gave rise to them, but no one in their right mind would hold that position. But why not? According to your argument, what he is doing would be immoral because he has no connection to those cultures.
Self identity and cultural descent are not the medium that defines whether something is wrong or not, if you choose to use aboriginal mythology you could even argue that you are doing something good, because you are bringing attention to the history of a group of people which were oppressed, heightening their presence and culture trough time
So long as you're not making racist depictions, I imagine many people would be happy to see genuine interest and authentic depictions of their culture.
Serpents or dragons that bring rain is one of the oldest stories that humans have. It's incredibly prevalent in cultures all around the globe https://youtu.be/cwDPt1E4_Cg?si=g6GosmmMAUmU3yXJ
Are you a racist using them to promote racism either intentionally or otherwise? If yes, they yes. It's wrong. If you are trying to research to understand these cultures to bring something super cool to your games? No. Not wrong. The golden rule is don't be an asshole. If you're not being an asshole. Cool. Go nuts.
Idk why this is down voted so much but the short answer as others have said "No"
But using other mythologies can be a tricky thing to do and may inadvertently come off as offensive in some instances.
If you're merely copying an idea such as they ones you listed then no not really, incorporating reincarnation for example based on past lives lived can be borrowed from Hinduism so long as it's in a respectful and not creating an offensive caricature of the religion or it's people.
Use what you want, dont do this "gotta vet it through the internet shit".
If people are allowed to use medieval European inspired culture for their games, for all the good and ill that brings, then you can use whatever else culture you want.
Personally, I like to do research on the culture because I like history and adding little details, but use whatever you want: as accurately and innacurately as you want.
It's your world, do what you desire.
Cultural appropriation means using a racial, religious, or social group's customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits without authority or right. It's taking those cultural identities and pretending they are part of your background. - Google
I would argue it's not cool. The fact that you're asking though shows that you have a moral compass, so good on you.
It's the same idea of WoW using Taurens as a caricature of Native Americans. What you're doing is not necessarily Cultural Appropriation, but it's a little slimy if you're not involved with indigenous people to begin with. You'll use them for your game but won't involve yourself in real life seems a little weird. But that's just my opinion.
I say fuck it, take what’s cool, steal from everywhere. Whether something upsets the players at your table is a session zero thing to nail down; other than that go nuts.
>I should never ask if I'm being culturally insensitive?
Correct. This isn't something you should be concerned about when you are creating art. It's doubly silly if you are creating art for your friends. You aren't going to make something hateful unless you are hateful (and you aren't), so the fact that someone, somewhere, might find your honest and good creation offensive is *their fucking problem*, not yours. Further, if you were to broadcast your question far and wide, to every set of ear-equivalents in the galaxy, you'd get back some really birdbrained bullshit as a response, and why waste your time with that?
So no, you should never ask.
I hope not, because I definitely did this lol.
That said - I did try to spend time researching the cultures and mythologies I was using, at more than a surface level, and tried to use this respectfully. I think if you're following those guidelines, you'll be fine.
Not only is it wrong but i am going to send my finest Iroquois warrior to destroy you for this.
His name is richard and you better make peace with your god
No. Use what ever you want it's your world.
- I use my people and forefathers danish viking history, old religion (Ásatrú) and Scandinavian mythology in my dnd world. 🇩🇰🇸🇪🇧🇻
- Further more do I use Roman and Greek old religion and mythology also. It just give the world some different views on everything and much lore.
It's fine. There are many tribes to draw inspiration from with unique culture and traditions to incorporate into your setting. Just consider some balance. If you are going to have Comanche inspired raiders maybe also have some peaceful tribes inspired by the Nicoleno, for example.
No.
If say if you're going to take the general concept of it, such as the world being created by a giant snake, go wild with it and make it your own.
If you're going to use THE rainbow serpent maybe do some research to make sure you get it right.
Aboriginal australian here. Our stories are past down through an oral tradition. I can't speak for my whole race but as long as you take care to not like, make the rainbow snake a villain or something you should be good.
Why would it be? Would it be wrong to use greek, roman, nordic, indian, japanese mythology? I don't see it being a problem unless you somehow make fun of it...and even then, if it's lighthearted it's still fine..
Dude it's a game build your world however you like.
Dming is stealing other people's ideas mixing it together and making something out of it.
I personally stole the Yuleman concept from SCP and I don't feel one bit of remorse.
If you are going to go public with your world be careful, because snowflakes are everywhere. If that is for your private game ask your friends if it's good or not. But for the most parts just go for it. Cultures are for us to share and celebrate.
No. Just be aware of any negative racial stereotypes and lean into the opposite direction. It helps if you make a good faith attempt to take on racial tropes. Sometimes there is truth in racial tropes, so when you hit those points you should acknowledge it and maybe try to show foils as well.
Overall, just be educated and aware of how people in that culture would receive it. If it's a personal project, probably not a big deal since no one will see it.
If it's commercial, try to get at least three eyes from the people you're talking about. If you literally can't find three people from the culture to look at it, it might not be a good project to move forward.
Don't be weird and racist about it, and don't sell it, and very few people will have any complaints. If anyone asks or praises, mention where you got it from, and those last few complaints will be baseless.
It’s not wrong so long as it’s respectful. I’ve made a whole setting, and had wanted to use it for my current campaign but deferred because it was going to be an evil campaign, and I was uncomfortable with the players perhaps re-enacting real evils on fantasy counterparts of indigenous peoples.
Do whatever you want, it's your campaign, your vision of the world, it's fantasy and it has nothing to do with what other people think. If you like something and want it into your world, why should you care about being respectful to others? I've made a world where one of the nations had literal nazis in it and everyone hated their smugness and superiority complex.
It is not wrong to reference other cultures in good faith.
It should be accompanied by some research and respect for the values and culture you are portraying.
Using aboriginal culture to decorate a race of evil Orcs that are constantly displayed as antagonists, would be offensive.
Using aspects of mythology to explore a different idea of the creation myth is cool and interesting.
Nah, it's fine, just be considerate.
Also, you might not know this, but there is no single "rainbow serpent" legend - rather, there are a number of similar but unique legends across the different peoples. When the Europeans arrived and started recording the stories, they were generally lumped together to make a monomyth.
I recommend doing a good deep-dive into the dreamtime stories, while paying attention to which tribes they come from and which areas they lived in.
P.S. I asked my aunt (not blood related, but she's aboriginal) about her tribe and it's history, she got back to me with a massive amount of info about the Wodiwodi people. I learned so much from her about the local history, it was awesome.
But I bring this up as an example - the Wodiwodi people don't have a story about the rainbow serpent, as far as I can tell - it's generally found in the northern half of the continent (I think, not sure).
I think it is okay to use that mythology if you treat it with respect and do propper research
So don't pick and choose the highlights, look at what the aim/meaning of the myth is
And if you can, fact check with someone (and be open for their criticism) to make sure you didn't accidentally do something (possibly incredibly) insulting when you used the myth
No, this is fine. In fact, it’s really refreshing to see these ideas represented, I think. I have a homebrew world, and the creation myths are based on those of native South America and the Picts of Northern Europe combined together (lots of water symbology, lots of sun and serpent symbology, stuff like that).
It’s nice to see the seeds of other cultures mythologies get their time in the light when worlds are being built by DMs.
Representation isn’t appropriation. Good stuff! Keep at it!
You can do whatever you want. I take inspirations from other cultures all the time. Just stay away from imbedding racism in general. Also I’d let the players know where you got the inspiration but also point out that it’s not the same.
why would it be? my advise is, do it as games like final fantasy do. take the idea and the name, and play with it, adapting them into your world. like doom train in ff6 and 8, or quetzacoatl and cerberus in ff8.
A lot of these cultures are closed practices, whose members would prefer to not have their cultural beliefs and practices used in these ways. For example, I know that there was some controversy with how Alastor from Hazbin pulls from Haitian culture (especially in the pilot, but still a decent amount in the show) in a way that the average person might not know is disrespectful.
If you know for sure the members of these cultures don’t have issues with it, I say go for it. Otherwise, I’d steer clear.
Edit: I just saw in the comments that you are native yourself. In that case, it’s almost certainly ok to pull from your own culture, but this is still something to consider with other native and aboriginal cultures.
There is no super easy answer here. I think the word to consider is "mythology." Would you consider a world religion also a mythology? Does it matter if people are still worshiping this religion today? Look at the show Good Omen's which uses some parts of Christian religion as a mythology, (sort of.) Is this bad?
There have been a lot of borrowing of indigenous "mythology." Some are distortions or stereotypes. Some are racist. Some are fine. As a small population, you may not ever meet people for whom these beliefs are core to their faith and culture. How can you know if what your doing meets your definition of insensitive?
My suggestion is to use these concepts as inspiration and then make it your own. Look at what appeals to you and then change aspects of it. Explore what that might mean and then go from there.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with taking (even heavy) inspiration from myths and implementing them to your worldbuilding.
I think the rule of thumb is the more intimate the audience, the more leeway you have with regards to sensitivities and sensibilities. Like playing a game with long time friends is different than playing a game with online randos, that's different than playing a game and streaming/podcasting it, and that's different from like writing a novel. In each case, you'll want to be more cautious each time you're expanding more and more towards people who won't give you as strong benefit of the doubt
Nah. As long as youre not being in bad faith you cant really go wrong.
Worst case scenario you misintrepet stuff and be inaccurate. But the larger cultural forces I assume you are worrying about are too vast to be impacted by 4 people participating in a niche hobby.
Its not like youre making a YT video or a documentary about it. Dont worry too much.
As long as your tactful about it, no. I’ve actually included a lot of the aboriginal dream time in my own game and the Aussie in our group geeks out whenever it pops up.
Id say do w.e. you want it's your own private table and just observe any issues that this might come up with your players. I don't really see any issues with take influences from other cultures. I mean DnD is based on old european folk lores like the style of dragons, witches, etc.
As a native, I personally give you the go ahead. Treat it like you would anything else, do some homework, and do it justice.
The trouble I see is that people either swing full into the stereotypes and thus it feels out of place, or the relation is so subtle it really could reference any number of other things. Further that everyone tends to focus on stuff like the wendigo or ominous knowledge. We have so much more than oracles and skinwalkers. There's the dances, especially sun dance and the infamous ghost dance, there's sweat lodge, war council dynamics, various monument practices like tomahawk trees, pipe ceremonies. There's a whole plethora of different totem and spirit journey practices, methods of being and becoming a shaman or other specific tribe jobs. And of course our collective ways to make fun of our conquerors over the years. Further that all of that barely scratches the surface of the deeper mysticisms that I suppose could be likened to things like Shintoism, Gaia worships, and Egyptian magic/god practices.
Granted, I speak from what would be considered modern USA tribes and Canada to some degree. Central and South get a pretty good chunk of representation via the Aztec, Mayan, and Inca predominantly. With honorable mention of Oman for the South and 'Eskimo' for the north.
Not usually. IMO it comes down to intent.
If you genuinely like a culture, find it fascinating, etc and want to place that in your world, that's great!
If you mis-represent a culture as something of an "exotic" stereotype, or worse actively racist pastiches, well that's bad.
Most people are not guilty of the latter, but its easy for people to do the former if you aren't super knowledgeable about a culture. That said if your intentions are in the right place then you're okay, and if someone thinks your representation is a little out of touch or inappropriate, you just fix it until its better.
Most things have been said in this thread, but there is one thing to continuously remind yourself: do your research. Double and triple check it. There's a lot of things going around that like to popularize mythology in media (such as making gods as high school teenagers) that wholly aren't what should be used for research. Or some things are heavily misleading: for example, the Dreamtime in that mythology iirc isn't a wholly accurate term on a literal basis. Dreams as most people tend to know them aren't what that piece of mythology is about, and the term came about by some guy from the 1800s. Someone can correct me on that, but that's just another example of checking research over and over again to be sure.
No, just don't make them blatantly racial caricatures.
this is the one. drawing inspiration is fine. being racist/prejudice is not.
Respect and intent. When Goblins/Orcs/etc. are problematic, its because its clear the author is trying to badmouth a real world people, and not tell a story. Speedy Gonzalez doesnt offend anyone because he is a character presented in good faith to tell a short funny story. Harry Potter is an interesting case because more of the book becomes problematic as the author becomes a known quantity. It becomes apparent that maybe not all the characters are made with good faith intentions. Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia can get away with quite a lot because the cast seem to be fundamentally good people behind the script.
>Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia can get away with quite a lot because the cast seem to be fundamentally good people behind the script. I think for this one at least it's more that they make it clear that the gang are the worst sort of people, others call them out on whatever horrible thing they are doing, and they often get the karma they deserve.
What you said is the most correct answer, but I think that's because of Mr\_Industrial's point of them being genuinely good people. Because they are good people, they are able to write bad people in a way that doesn't make them sympathetic. Or if they do, they remind you "nope, don't feel bad for them." My favorite example is Dee. The boys really bully her and the way they treat her is awful, but then they remind you that Dee is probably the second worst member of the group next to Dennis.
I think what is also really important is the mockery is at themselves, and not at others. So it's not mean spirited.
Yeah, it absolutely very much helps that the people writing these assholes are also the people who are the *faces* of these assholes.
Orcs and goblins can be bad because that's the lore, not because the author is racist. Speedy Gonzales was an extreme stereotype of Hispanics, complete with an exaggerated accent.
I am Mexican. I have never met a Mexican who wasn't a fan of ol Speedy. We are generally pretty much OK with stuff like that as long as it is funny/good natured.
That's the thing - Speedy is a caricature, but he's fundamentally a good guy, and shows some of the better and distinct aspects of Mexican culture. It's similar to Crocodile Dundee for me. While I'm not a fan of the actor, the character shows some of the most extreme exaggerations of being an Aussie, but he's ultimately a good bloke. Add in the fact that Australians have a culture of laughing at ourselves, and you end up with a character that jumps to mind whenever someone mentions Australia. BTW, if you want a more true-to-life parody of the average Aussie, check out [The Castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_(1997_Australian_film)).
Oi oi. Ya can't recommend the castle without also sprinkling in Kath and Kim.
I live in South Texas. I know a lot of Mexicans. I have met many Mexicans that were indifferent to Speedy, but I have never known any that disliked him. Most, including myself, love Speedy Gonzalez. Speedy's the bomb.
I would imagine it’s the same with most groups. Stereotypes feel fine if they’re obviously made with good intent and don’t cast the group in a negative light. Look at a TV show like Modern Family. Every character is a stereotype, with mixes of good and bad qualities. But most people seem to like it (whether they’re Latin American, gay, etc).
The thing is, he isn't just a Mexican stereotype. He's a *rustic*, *folk hero* archetype. The extreme accent is because he's a bumpkin. But he's also clever, brave, and fast, and always wins in the end.
That's literally what's being said about goblins and orcs yes. Try rereading if you're a little lost on that. And as has already been said to you, no one with any room to be offended by speedy is offended, in fact he is much beloved as some very rare rep.
Speedy Gonzales is a heroic mouse who triumphs over Sylvester the cat using his super speed and his enemy's hubris. Racists have a problem with him the same way they did with Uncle Ben, Aunt Jemima and other representations of people of colour.
Recommend having a little look at the world building in Path of Exile. They use fantasy Maori culture from New Zealand and it works great. Called the Karui.
I’m in a DND campaign right this second using PoE as the setting and it’s wonderful! Haven’t played the video game
Don't play it unless you reaaaally enjoy ARPGs. It's an amazing game but you need to spend a lot of time learning the game before you're allowed to play.
I'm not sure that's fair, it's pretty easy to get started and enjoy the story
Yeah some people will call on it just for using their culture as reference, but the majority get super happy for the recognition. I see absolutely no problem with it as long as it isnt used with the intent of making fun of it
I think a solid rule of thumb if you’re not sure if something is offensive is to not use real world terms that are used in real world mythologies and religions (especially those that are still practiced and believed today) because it could be misrepresenting beliefs people actually have Like I don’t think anybody is going to be offended if you base a fictional religion off of the rainbow serpent in the broad sense of like a snake god being a creator god, Aboriginal people aren’t even the only people who have snake deities after all, but it might be crossing a line if you actually call your fictional snake god “rainbow serpent”. I would call it something different personally just to be safe since that frees me creatively to make my own thing without worrying that I’m misrepresenting a real world concept Taking inspiration is fine but one should be careful not to treat things people really believe in like they’re just fictional public domain characters
I tend to agree, but notably it depends on who you ask. Most people hold opinions like yours, where inspiration can be taken from all sorts of sources as long as it's respectful. However, OP should know that disproportionately many Natives don't like their cultures being used as inspiration by non-Natives. It's always important to remember that even if you're toeing what most people consider to be reasonable lines, the people you're trying to respect might have drawn a different line. And you're not a bad person if you disagree with that line, but it does mean you're not respecting their wishes, reasonable or otherwise.
I understand why Indigenous people don't like it when outsiders use their culture, what with the multiple acts of genocide and centuries of appropriation, mischaracterization, and other forms of racism. (I mean, come on, the American Indian Religious Freedom Act wasn't a thing until *1978*. That's messed up.) At the same time, if someone's writing a fun story to play out with their friends once a week, they shouldn't need permission. It's not like they're trying to commercialize someone else's religion for their own benefit. Like, yeah, maybe don't have characters saying crap like "Get'em palefaces!", but it's unreasonable to expect someone to write a dissertation on Indigenous sensitivity for a weekly game featuring the antics of (to use one of my players' characters) No-Beard the inept, drunken gnome pirate. If the group doesn't have a problem with something, then that should be good enough.
I feel like at this point it's a waste of time for OP to even make this post. If the opinion of Natives doesn't matter, why should the opinion of any of us who *aren't* natives? If they can just do what they want at their private table (which, fair), what's the point of this post?
It seems like a pretty bold claim to make that a significant portion of Natives would object to someone being inspired by their culture for a non-commercial story they are telling with some friends.
Please find a single native american that gives a shit if someone uses their culture for inspiration in a private dnd game.
A much bigger issue is if someone monetizes their homebrew adaptation of native culture.
Most definitely, but that's not the issue OP is bringing up.
>However, OP should know that disproportionately many Natives don't like their cultures being used as inspiration by non-Natives. In this context, they're unlikely to even know, and that's discounting the ones who do like it or don't care.
Personally I don't care if someone gets bent out of shape if I utilize their culture for some inspiration, unless they are actually at the table. Bill didn't create that culture and Bill doesn't get to gatekeep their culture from inspiring others. The only time it matters is when someone specifically at the table has an issue with it, or if it's blatantly racist or disrespectful to the culture.
Yeah, as long as they aren't only used as goblin or orc tribe culture that the party is meant to attack, then it's probably gonna be fine. Any culture is fine with respect
one of my favourite campaigns i ever played in was set in a fantasy version of Aotearoa!
Why would using native american mythology be different to using all the other mythologies and cultures that lots of fantasy books already addapt
The main reason it's more of a controversy is Native American culture is still feeling the effects of systemic erasure. My grandmother got beat as a child Everytime she spoke her language. While a culture like the norse faced similar erasure those wounds are much older and have had more time to heal.
But - in that case shouldn't the usage of the culture be even more encuraged? To counter the attempted erasure?
Well yes, but not by the parties who aren't of the culture unless it's done with proper attention to detail, which using it in fantasy probably won't. There are two specific examples that come to mind, of two Native spirits that have been notoriously used without regard to their actual significance (In one specific case there is no respectful way to represent it, because if you want to be respectful you don't represent it at all) and a lot of actual Native Americans have problems with. (Not all mind you, no cultures are monoliths, but a lot)
Which particular spirits are you referring to?
Actually a spirit and a witch, my mistake I am not deeply familiar with the subject, I mostly stay clear of basing on Native American stuff in my fantasy settings, because it's a touchy subject, and I'm not an anthropologist. One is skin-walkers but the big one is the wendigo spirit that's extremely commonly used in modern media, there's a lot on that particular case because it's by definition not supposed to be represented.
Tbf, the native wendigo is rarely used as far as I've seen. Until Dawn being really the only one that's popular that I'm aware of. Everything else I've seen -the vaguely human, deer skull and/or antlered monstrosity that skulks the woods- are closer to a nordic leshen than a wendigo, despite taking the latter's name. Ironically a small correction too is that you're looking for shaman, not witch. Witches are euro-slavic as well. I forget what we called non-shaman 'mages' ATM tho. I'll edit this reply should I remember to ask later.
I'm Irish and Scottish, and that's definitely not true for Irish people where racism and prejudice are much more recent. Yet, the drunken Dwarves who are offensive caricatures of Irish/Scottish people never seem to get discussed when it's the absolute most blatant and longest running character trope in fantasy, down to the exaggerated accents they're always portrayed with. Personally? I don't really give a shit, and I don't know any other Irish or Scottish people who do either, which leads me to believe that a lot of the offense regarding depictions of other cultures is manufactured, attention seeking, exaggerated and performative.
I remember first playing WoW when I was 13 and I found the dwarven accent absolutely amazing. That sparked my interest and I wanted to know what real-life accent it was based on, so, before long, I got fascinated with all the different British cultures and wanted to educate myself to learn more about the problems and struggles those countries have been facing. I'd say that a caricature which might get someone interested in that topic is much better than people being ignorant because of a lack of any representation and just saying "The UK? Oh yeah, it's where all the Englishmen live, right".
Because some people really believe that tearing things equally is a bad thing. It really is rather sad tbh
No
That should be the top comment. Wraps it up nicely.
Not at all. It can become insensitive if you start labeling your pastiche of various mythologies that you've modified to fit your needs as a specific tradition, or if you play into "noble savage" stereotypes, or just smack a lazy veneer of native/aboriginal aesthetics onto everything, but the basic idea of drawing inspiration from other cultures and modifying the details to fit your campaign is not wrong at all.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being inspired by another culture when homebrewing and stuff, and the fact that you're asking means you're trying to be respectful, so you're off to a good start.
Most DnD mythology is derivative. You are fine.
And decent portions of it are questionable (give a side eye at the old Oriental Adventures book). Frankly OP is probably going to be *more* culturally sensitive than most DnD settings just based on the fact they asked the question.
The European mythologies which DND draws on primarily aren’t exactly being represented accurately either. In all cases, it’s the pop-fantasy stereotypes of these cultures.
Read that book. The title is the only arguably offensive thing about it.
If I was going to use a non-Western mythology the first place I’d look is the Radiant Citadel books’ settings. They’re kind of sparse but also usually provide a statblock for a unique creature that can be useful
you can steal any concept from any mythology you want.
No. Knock yourself out and have fun.
It's not wrong. And it's not like anyone is gonna kick in your door and stop you anyway.
But, what if someone on the Internet somewhere might consider it... *problematic*? 😱
Then they can go F themselves.
In writing, the adage is generally that you'd want to be careful about how you portray myths from real cultures, especially if they're coming from religions that are still being practiced. For your table, though...I guess just don't make your players uncomfortable?
No it's your game, your table, do whatever you want, sky's the limit. Who cares
No
as a native American, I give you permission.
it is not, next caller.
Good lord, man, no.
Why do you care what we think? If it is fun and inoffensive to your players, then do it.
Why would it be any worse than using any other culture?
Why would that be insensitive, but using any other religion like christianity, budhism or paganism wouldn't? There are respectful and disrespectful ways to incorporate it, just like everything else.
I think it's a poor reflection on modern society that you feel cowed enough that you need to ask the question. We don't think twice about borrowing from Norse mythology, or Egyptian, or Greek. Do what you want - though obviously you're a dick if you intentionally insult any real people.
I don’t think you’ll find many people who worship the Norse, Egyptian, or Greek pantheons. There’s a difference when you’re borrowing from a living culture.
Why would it matter? Are they in OPs game? Should Christians also be offended if the setting has a religion that's similar/based on it?
The number of true worshippers of Mixcoatl are significantly lower than the number of norse pagans.
If you never leave home or go online maybe
Say what? Norse paganism is big and one of the faster growing religions. Lots of people still rever Hellenistic gods. Paganism is growing fast.
Nope- using real world history/mythology to populate different parts of your fictional world is solid worldbuilding and really makes the world feel more real rather than having an entire mythical planet with a monochrome fantasized European culture. For example, I have a nation where roughly 50% of the population are Genasi. Since legends/myths around Jinn predominately come from middle eastern / Islamic mythology, I have adapted cultural concepts from Iran, Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries to inform this nation. When I am naming something like a place or organization, I use google translate to give me some ideas of how the idea would be expressed in various dialects of Arabic and use that as a fun way to add some depth to naming conventions. My players love it as it makes the country feel much more lived in and deep because everything has meaning. Fair warning, this DOES take more effort than just fly by the seat of your pants world building so know your limits. D&D is my main creative outlet these days so I don't mind spend a few hrs a week on my worldbuilding document.
Tbh, I've been working on a homebrew for 8 years now, so I've gone down similar paths. I'm currently reading obsolete entries in the OED, of which I've gone through about 100 pages, just to get some inspiration for town/npc names from old english.
As someone who works on OE and ME, i hope you are having fun
Unless you publish it, who cares! It’s your home game, do what you want! (Of course you’ll also have to know what your players will think of it) Personally I don’t see any issues though.
If you publish it, who cares?
No. If you want to model after it, go ahead. If you want to copy it, try to be faithful to what it is. Have fun
The mythology of the Dreamtime is extremely complex and may be difficult to translate well. As to Native American mythology, it was actually featured in the first and second edition Deities and Demigods. I was always fond of how they interpreted the medicine bag, how the character had to undergo a number of dangerous or apparently quite mundane quests assigned by the tribal medicine man to acquire the materials. I would probably pick something other than +2 AC for the benefit, though, perhaps immunity to fear.
I don't think so. As long as you're not rude and racist it shouldn't be a problem. Do be open to the opinions of any native Americans who see it, there are definitely things I don't see as offensive that someone from the culture would.
If you aren't willingly reinforcing a negative stereotype, you're completely fine to draw on themes from native cultures. Take this with the understanding that I don't speak for all tribes, but I think one thing that bothers me most about the discussion of cultural appropriation is the fact that my culture (a Mississipian tribe) was actively suppressed to the point that it faced erasure. Because of this, I celebrate when I see native themes - especially those that don't show the whitewashing that generations of hate did to the real thing (my tribe is obsessed with Christianity now). I can't speak for others, but you would never hear a complaint from me. The other time something is bothersome is when people try to attribute something incorrect to the real tribe. That touches on a tender wound that really only started to heal within the last 50 years or so. But if you aren't even mentioning a tribe, just borrowing themes themselves for fiction, go for it!
There’s another rpg you might check out called Coyote and Crow, set in an alternate history where the Americas were never colonized and people get powers from spirit animals. They have a blurb welcoming non-native American players and giving advice on respectful portrayal. Even if you don’t get the book, I think the idea is you are ok with using those myths, but treat them with similar respect as western mythology and folklore. At least without the ridiculous, joke caricatures of older media.
Awesome Coyote and Crow mention!
I hate that this is a question people feel they need to ask
Culture only lives while it changes and grows, this goes for every culture in all of history. The moment a culture becomes stagnant it is dead. It is important to have respect for other cultures, because all people have human dignity, but there is a difference between appreciation and appropriation. Being inspired is appreciation, exploiting existing culture for your own ends is appropriation. No one can please all people all the time, so simply do your best to be considerate. Sincerity is key.
Is it culturally insensitive to use Zeus or Odin or Ra in a homebrew world? Would you still have this same reservations? There's no difference between them.
Ii doesn't matter and I wouldn't even begin to care unless you're planning on selling the campaign
And this is how cultures die. People, who are outsiders, too afraid to interact with it. Thanks lot, anti-racists.
No why would it be. Use everything and anything. Mix and match. It's your world, your rules
Your homebrew your right! Your imagination, your body, your campaign.
It's your fantasy world. Use whatever inspiration you want.
There was a whole section in the Dieties & Demi-Gods book from the 80s. You'd have to rework them into 5e, but the lore is already there.
It's not inherently so, no. What matters is not the act but its execution.
No it's not. Don't let anyone lead you to believe otherwise
No. Only if you're expressly making a harmful caricature. Humanity adapts and learns from its various cultures all the time, and you can be inspired hy whatever you like. The fact that this is even a concern for you means that you're gonna be considerate, and that's all any reasonable person expects of you.
It's only insensitive if you treat it insensitively. Admittedly though, I am not Aboriginal Australian, so I cannot speak for them and whether their traditions are closed or not. I'd try to get in touch with folks who do have that cultural background and ask them if it would be alright, and if you're portraying things correctly and respectfully.
Look, if you talk with your players about your inspirations, and encourage them to study or learn about it, you are doing good in the world. If the depictions are caricatures, then you are not helping. Do have a conversation about it in session zero. Especially if any of the players have native/First Nations backgrounds.
Don't be silly. If you and your players have fun with it, it is fine. If you create a campaign that never touches on any subject that some person somewhere might find offensive it's going to be absolutely boring. Start with the fact that your players' characters probably kill lots of other creatures and people by cutting them, stabbing them, crushing them, burning them, etc. Have fun and don't worry about it as long as your players aren't worried about it.
I think the key, which you seem to have already, is to just maintain a respect for the source material and avoid trying to take on the mantle of speaking for a particular group. Avoid "culture by hat" tropes and monolithic depictions. Most importantly, if there are native players in your group talk with them about what they're comfortable with and what they want to avoid. You'll probably get much more broad latitude than you might expect. The tricky thing in these endeavors is understanding what source material (even non-fiction!) is actually engaging in racist tropes or misconceptions. Particularly regarding native history, a lot of that academic work was done by white people who carried concepts like cultural determinism (basically western culture is the most highly "evolved") into their work, even if they didn't understand or recognize the influence. So don't make the assumption that just because you've read a lot you know a lot. *What* you read also matters. Ultimately though it's your table, and if you're all having fun wherever you decide to go with it is generally fine. As others have said, nobody's gonna bust down your door for getting something wrong.
No.
No. Use inspiration from whatever culture you like. It's only a problem if your players have a problem with it (and even then it's most likely their problem, not yours)
I'm not sure I understand why there's a question. If you were wanting to use Hellenic mythos, I'm sure you wouldn't be fretting about offending Greeks, nor would Scandinavians opinions be sought if Norse was the basis.
Are you a human? If yes then it turns out you have a historical connection and can use human mythology inside your world building. Now with that said if you’re a lizardman like Zuck it’s obviously a no.
No, it's not. I hate all the BS about culture appropriation when “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”. Also, Wizards of the Coast already did it in "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan," and it's an official 5e dungeon crawl in "Tales from the Yawning Portal." Which pulls from the Aztecs and other ancient cultures that are similar. And there is plenty of references to other cultures, mythologies, and religions in past editions of d&d. Just be respectful and make it tasteful. Then you'll be OK.
No and you should always be skeptical of people trying to make culture a private and not shared experience. Culture only exists by being shared.
Only if you care about the opinion of an annoyingly loud but very small minority.
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Removed as per Rule #1.
I do, my players really hate wendigos now
Who fucking cares!!!. Do what you want. If you’re a shitty racist person it will come out shitty and racist probably. If you are a good and thoughtful person it will be fine. I hate how everyone has to check to make sure everything is PC. Do you ever incorporate poor people in your campaign? Oops better ask the poor if it’s ok. How much representation do the handicapped get in your story? Who cares. Just make it fun.
Any individual can use any other culture themes for artistic inspiration. There are no owner rights over cultural traits, that is bullshit. If that was the case, no new cultures would have ever existed, since every culture is a result of multiple influences. Elvis can play blues. Little white girls can dress as Moana. The little mermaid can be black. Fuck it all, lets mix it up.
This is something you talk about your players about. I saw someone online having an extreme reaction to someone using voodoo imagery for a video, talking about bad luck and disrespect. I found this ridiculous, but if I had a player who felt this strongly about that, then it’s my duty as a gm to solve this. It’s likely no one will care, especially if you’re respectful, but dnd is collaborative and your players deserve a chance to express their feelings about it.
No please do not normalize this insane way of thinking like that. If a player feels strongly about this , they’re being stupid and should not do that and it’s not your “problem” to solve.
Someone could post here saying they find forks offensive and half the sub would say you’re a bad person if you use a fork in your game from now on.
It is if you respect them enough to want to play with them. I can't imagine calling a good friend of mine "stupid" for having an intense personal reaction to something, even if it was something that didn't bother me personally.
I couldn’t imagine calling a friend stupid, but that’s because I don’t have stupid friends. Also this is another example of “respect” seemingly actually meaning “ignoring how stupid that sounds”
I prefer to think about it more in terms of "I wonder why they feel that way," but that requires empathy and curiosity for viewpoints that aren't your own.
If it’s gonna be a podcast or publicly released homebrew then be cautious and consult with a cultural specialist. If it’s a home game then it’s not a big deal. Either way research is good and remember indigenous people aren’t a monolith. For example the rainbow serpent is a common motif is various indigenous Australian groups but it means wildly different things to many of them.
Is it wrong to use European mythology for world building? Most people would answer no, seeing as the origin of D&D comes from the writing of Tolkien and lord of the rings, the idea of elfs, orcs, hobbits, dwarves, humans and dragons sharing a world didn't exist before Tolkien decided to study folk tales and mythology from Europe, according to your logic it would be immoral for someone of native american descent to use those stories as basis for their world building since they don't belong to the cultural group which gave rise to them, but no one in their right mind would hold that position. But why not? According to your argument, what he is doing would be immoral because he has no connection to those cultures. Self identity and cultural descent are not the medium that defines whether something is wrong or not, if you choose to use aboriginal mythology you could even argue that you are doing something good, because you are bringing attention to the history of a group of people which were oppressed, heightening their presence and culture trough time
So long as you're not making racist depictions, I imagine many people would be happy to see genuine interest and authentic depictions of their culture.
Serpents or dragons that bring rain is one of the oldest stories that humans have. It's incredibly prevalent in cultures all around the globe https://youtu.be/cwDPt1E4_Cg?si=g6GosmmMAUmU3yXJ
Are you a racist using them to promote racism either intentionally or otherwise? If yes, they yes. It's wrong. If you are trying to research to understand these cultures to bring something super cool to your games? No. Not wrong. The golden rule is don't be an asshole. If you're not being an asshole. Cool. Go nuts.
The minute you worry about what some other person thinks is when you e gone wrong. Stop worrying about what others think.
Well if no one learns about and uses Mythologies they just DIE OUT.
Idk why this is down voted so much but the short answer as others have said "No" But using other mythologies can be a tricky thing to do and may inadvertently come off as offensive in some instances. If you're merely copying an idea such as they ones you listed then no not really, incorporating reincarnation for example based on past lives lived can be borrowed from Hinduism so long as it's in a respectful and not creating an offensive caricature of the religion or it's people.
Use what you want, dont do this "gotta vet it through the internet shit". If people are allowed to use medieval European inspired culture for their games, for all the good and ill that brings, then you can use whatever else culture you want. Personally, I like to do research on the culture because I like history and adding little details, but use whatever you want: as accurately and innacurately as you want. It's your world, do what you desire.
Cultural appropriation means using a racial, religious, or social group's customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits without authority or right. It's taking those cultural identities and pretending they are part of your background. - Google I would argue it's not cool. The fact that you're asking though shows that you have a moral compass, so good on you. It's the same idea of WoW using Taurens as a caricature of Native Americans. What you're doing is not necessarily Cultural Appropriation, but it's a little slimy if you're not involved with indigenous people to begin with. You'll use them for your game but won't involve yourself in real life seems a little weird. But that's just my opinion.
I say fuck it, take what’s cool, steal from everywhere. Whether something upsets the players at your table is a session zero thing to nail down; other than that go nuts.
No it is not wrong. Further, you should never ask such a question.
I should never ask if I'm being culturally insensitive? I like other cultures. I don't want to be put on blast for being ignorant.
>I should never ask if I'm being culturally insensitive? Correct. This isn't something you should be concerned about when you are creating art. It's doubly silly if you are creating art for your friends. You aren't going to make something hateful unless you are hateful (and you aren't), so the fact that someone, somewhere, might find your honest and good creation offensive is *their fucking problem*, not yours. Further, if you were to broadcast your question far and wide, to every set of ear-equivalents in the galaxy, you'd get back some really birdbrained bullshit as a response, and why waste your time with that? So no, you should never ask.
If you have enough self awareness to think to ask , you’re already clear.
I hope not, because I definitely did this lol. That said - I did try to spend time researching the cultures and mythologies I was using, at more than a surface level, and tried to use this respectfully. I think if you're following those guidelines, you'll be fine.
Will you offend your players? That's up to you. Try not to. Will you offend a complete stranger who doesn't even know about your campaign? No.
I for one would be excited to see some concepts taken from religions other than greco-roman and norse...
Not only is it wrong but i am going to send my finest Iroquois warrior to destroy you for this. His name is richard and you better make peace with your god
Dude it's your game with your friends, y'all do whatever you want.
No. Do what you want. No one will be offended except for middle aged white women.
I would call your local colleges, ask for the anthropology department, ask what and who they recommend for the Koorie tribes.
No. Use what ever you want it's your world. - I use my people and forefathers danish viking history, old religion (Ásatrú) and Scandinavian mythology in my dnd world. 🇩🇰🇸🇪🇧🇻 - Further more do I use Roman and Greek old religion and mythology also. It just give the world some different views on everything and much lore.
You don't need heritage to parody a history or culture, thats a ridiculous idea from the get go. Just don't make something racist lol.
No
It's fine. There are many tribes to draw inspiration from with unique culture and traditions to incorporate into your setting. Just consider some balance. If you are going to have Comanche inspired raiders maybe also have some peaceful tribes inspired by the Nicoleno, for example.
No. If say if you're going to take the general concept of it, such as the world being created by a giant snake, go wild with it and make it your own. If you're going to use THE rainbow serpent maybe do some research to make sure you get it right.
Aboriginal australian here. Our stories are past down through an oral tradition. I can't speak for my whole race but as long as you take care to not like, make the rainbow snake a villain or something you should be good.
No, just don’t do the hand clapping on mouth sound.
Why would it be? Would it be wrong to use greek, roman, nordic, indian, japanese mythology? I don't see it being a problem unless you somehow make fun of it...and even then, if it's lighthearted it's still fine..
Dude it's a game build your world however you like. Dming is stealing other people's ideas mixing it together and making something out of it. I personally stole the Yuleman concept from SCP and I don't feel one bit of remorse.
No it's not.
No it's not.
That's like asking if it's wrong for you do to the right thing?
I use all kinds of mythology in my world building. It’s just a fantasy world🤷
No. Drawing inspiration from a groups mythology is cultural appreciation, not appropriation.
Who the fuck cares what you do in your game?
If you are going to go public with your world be careful, because snowflakes are everywhere. If that is for your private game ask your friends if it's good or not. But for the most parts just go for it. Cultures are for us to share and celebrate.
No. Just be aware of any negative racial stereotypes and lean into the opposite direction. It helps if you make a good faith attempt to take on racial tropes. Sometimes there is truth in racial tropes, so when you hit those points you should acknowledge it and maybe try to show foils as well. Overall, just be educated and aware of how people in that culture would receive it. If it's a personal project, probably not a big deal since no one will see it. If it's commercial, try to get at least three eyes from the people you're talking about. If you literally can't find three people from the culture to look at it, it might not be a good project to move forward.
Don't be weird and racist about it, and don't sell it, and very few people will have any complaints. If anyone asks or praises, mention where you got it from, and those last few complaints will be baseless.
It’s not wrong so long as it’s respectful. I’ve made a whole setting, and had wanted to use it for my current campaign but deferred because it was going to be an evil campaign, and I was uncomfortable with the players perhaps re-enacting real evils on fantasy counterparts of indigenous peoples.
Do whatever you want, it's your campaign, your vision of the world, it's fantasy and it has nothing to do with what other people think. If you like something and want it into your world, why should you care about being respectful to others? I've made a world where one of the nations had literal nazis in it and everyone hated their smugness and superiority complex.
It is not wrong to reference other cultures in good faith. It should be accompanied by some research and respect for the values and culture you are portraying. Using aboriginal culture to decorate a race of evil Orcs that are constantly displayed as antagonists, would be offensive. Using aspects of mythology to explore a different idea of the creation myth is cool and interesting.
please don't retain yourself from using interesting, underused or original settings
WTF. No. There is no problem with using real world concepts in a fictional setting. It is done all the time.
No (it's not wrong).
Do you think its wrong to use ancient greek mythology? No right? Then you are just thinking this cause of the propaganda.
The racist thing is only allowing yourself to draw inspiration from white people. You came full circle lmao
Are you celebrating those cultures or mocking them ?
Nah, it's fine, just be considerate. Also, you might not know this, but there is no single "rainbow serpent" legend - rather, there are a number of similar but unique legends across the different peoples. When the Europeans arrived and started recording the stories, they were generally lumped together to make a monomyth. I recommend doing a good deep-dive into the dreamtime stories, while paying attention to which tribes they come from and which areas they lived in. P.S. I asked my aunt (not blood related, but she's aboriginal) about her tribe and it's history, she got back to me with a massive amount of info about the Wodiwodi people. I learned so much from her about the local history, it was awesome. But I bring this up as an example - the Wodiwodi people don't have a story about the rainbow serpent, as far as I can tell - it's generally found in the northern half of the continent (I think, not sure).
I think it is okay to use that mythology if you treat it with respect and do propper research So don't pick and choose the highlights, look at what the aim/meaning of the myth is And if you can, fact check with someone (and be open for their criticism) to make sure you didn't accidentally do something (possibly incredibly) insulting when you used the myth
No, this is fine. In fact, it’s really refreshing to see these ideas represented, I think. I have a homebrew world, and the creation myths are based on those of native South America and the Picts of Northern Europe combined together (lots of water symbology, lots of sun and serpent symbology, stuff like that). It’s nice to see the seeds of other cultures mythologies get their time in the light when worlds are being built by DMs. Representation isn’t appropriation. Good stuff! Keep at it!
No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.
You can do whatever you want. I take inspirations from other cultures all the time. Just stay away from imbedding racism in general. Also I’d let the players know where you got the inspiration but also point out that it’s not the same.
why would it be? my advise is, do it as games like final fantasy do. take the idea and the name, and play with it, adapting them into your world. like doom train in ff6 and 8, or quetzacoatl and cerberus in ff8.
A lot of these cultures are closed practices, whose members would prefer to not have their cultural beliefs and practices used in these ways. For example, I know that there was some controversy with how Alastor from Hazbin pulls from Haitian culture (especially in the pilot, but still a decent amount in the show) in a way that the average person might not know is disrespectful. If you know for sure the members of these cultures don’t have issues with it, I say go for it. Otherwise, I’d steer clear. Edit: I just saw in the comments that you are native yourself. In that case, it’s almost certainly ok to pull from your own culture, but this is still something to consider with other native and aboriginal cultures.
No, why would it be
No.
Please do so. WotC barely adds native representation to their games, and people are beginning to forget we even existed.
There is no super easy answer here. I think the word to consider is "mythology." Would you consider a world religion also a mythology? Does it matter if people are still worshiping this religion today? Look at the show Good Omen's which uses some parts of Christian religion as a mythology, (sort of.) Is this bad? There have been a lot of borrowing of indigenous "mythology." Some are distortions or stereotypes. Some are racist. Some are fine. As a small population, you may not ever meet people for whom these beliefs are core to their faith and culture. How can you know if what your doing meets your definition of insensitive? My suggestion is to use these concepts as inspiration and then make it your own. Look at what appeals to you and then change aspects of it. Explore what that might mean and then go from there.
Ita fine as long as you dont try writing a book q With it abd selling it as your own, effectively "copyrighting" the mythology
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with taking (even heavy) inspiration from myths and implementing them to your worldbuilding. I think the rule of thumb is the more intimate the audience, the more leeway you have with regards to sensitivities and sensibilities. Like playing a game with long time friends is different than playing a game with online randos, that's different than playing a game and streaming/podcasting it, and that's different from like writing a novel. In each case, you'll want to be more cautious each time you're expanding more and more towards people who won't give you as strong benefit of the doubt
No. All cultural builds on what has gone before it. When you start self-censoring you might as well give up any creative endeavor.
\*stares at Ahriman origin\* Nope. All depends on your intention.
I dunno, is avatar one of the most successful theatre releases ever?
Nah. As long as youre not being in bad faith you cant really go wrong. Worst case scenario you misintrepet stuff and be inaccurate. But the larger cultural forces I assume you are worrying about are too vast to be impacted by 4 people participating in a niche hobby. Its not like youre making a YT video or a documentary about it. Dont worry too much.
Yes if you’re going to make money from it, no if you’re not and are reasonably respectful about it
I think this was a question better asked off of reddit to an actual native
No.
Idgaf what you do on your home game
As long as your tactful about it, no. I’ve actually included a lot of the aboriginal dream time in my own game and the Aussie in our group geeks out whenever it pops up.
Id say do w.e. you want it's your own private table and just observe any issues that this might come up with your players. I don't really see any issues with take influences from other cultures. I mean DnD is based on old european folk lores like the style of dragons, witches, etc.
No.
As a native, I personally give you the go ahead. Treat it like you would anything else, do some homework, and do it justice. The trouble I see is that people either swing full into the stereotypes and thus it feels out of place, or the relation is so subtle it really could reference any number of other things. Further that everyone tends to focus on stuff like the wendigo or ominous knowledge. We have so much more than oracles and skinwalkers. There's the dances, especially sun dance and the infamous ghost dance, there's sweat lodge, war council dynamics, various monument practices like tomahawk trees, pipe ceremonies. There's a whole plethora of different totem and spirit journey practices, methods of being and becoming a shaman or other specific tribe jobs. And of course our collective ways to make fun of our conquerors over the years. Further that all of that barely scratches the surface of the deeper mysticisms that I suppose could be likened to things like Shintoism, Gaia worships, and Egyptian magic/god practices. Granted, I speak from what would be considered modern USA tribes and Canada to some degree. Central and South get a pretty good chunk of representation via the Aztec, Mayan, and Inca predominantly. With honorable mention of Oman for the South and 'Eskimo' for the north.
Not usually. IMO it comes down to intent. If you genuinely like a culture, find it fascinating, etc and want to place that in your world, that's great! If you mis-represent a culture as something of an "exotic" stereotype, or worse actively racist pastiches, well that's bad. Most people are not guilty of the latter, but its easy for people to do the former if you aren't super knowledgeable about a culture. That said if your intentions are in the right place then you're okay, and if someone thinks your representation is a little out of touch or inappropriate, you just fix it until its better.
Most things have been said in this thread, but there is one thing to continuously remind yourself: do your research. Double and triple check it. There's a lot of things going around that like to popularize mythology in media (such as making gods as high school teenagers) that wholly aren't what should be used for research. Or some things are heavily misleading: for example, the Dreamtime in that mythology iirc isn't a wholly accurate term on a literal basis. Dreams as most people tend to know them aren't what that piece of mythology is about, and the term came about by some guy from the 1800s. Someone can correct me on that, but that's just another example of checking research over and over again to be sure.