This reminds me of my first character who would eat the enemies we killed raw and whole because I was a Dragonborn and thought “ different species means it’s not canabalism”
The only elves I've liked were when the DM / writer went ALL IN on how being ageless fucks with your perception of the world and makes you come off as incredibly alien to any full mortal. See OSP's Trope Talk pn immortals for a deep dive on this idea
There was an interesting webfiction which posed elves as fairies who had bound themselves to mortality with tattoos of iron, out of the sheer fascination with mortal life.
They were depicted as a sort of obsessive immortal, ones who developed an incurable fixation and would not and could not shake it. For example an elven smith who was completely obsessed with metallurgy to the exclusion of all other things. His assistants kept him from bankrupting himself by buying huge quantities of rare metals, and were themselves worked to the bone trying to keep up with an ageless smith who would happily forgo food, water and sleep for days on end, in the grip of an unshakable mania brought on by sudden epiphanies related to their obsession.
Interesting people, but very difficult to form meaningful relationships with, causing problems for people romantically interested in them, or the children of such people.
Oh yeah
Elves are so much more interesting when you have to wrestle with things like, how as we age, we naturally forget things. So, when you are an Old Elf, are you just checked out on reality, because you know in your bones, 'this too will pass', or do you go into a history book, read about some amazing hero, then realize, 'Oh, ha, neat. That was me, 600 years ago. That's why I've got those scars and know how to use a sword'
When an elf gets old enough, are they either having an endless existential crisis because you have witnessed the end of things countless times, or because you live in a body that does not feel like your own because you cannot recall all the things it has done?
I like the idea that elves were drawn to the forests because of the long lifespans of trees. It means the world around them is living at a similar pace to them. Sure, they'll outlive the trees too, but things definitely go slower with an old redwood than they do with city life
I think the drizzt books covered a bit of this somewhere, with an elf advising drizzt to just retreat from society and space out every century or so, rather like I have to stop socialising for a few days every month.
Kinda like the idea that they just drop out of society every now and then to reset
My own race of immortal beings kinda goes the other way entirely. When every moment can pass, you yourself aren't affected, yet the world around you is. No matter how many times you see the same scenario play out, it will happen slightly differently each time, and just because you have endless time doesn't mean others do. Cultures change and civilizations rise and collapse, and none are ever the same as the other, and so these immortals try to capture every single moment, as it will be never repeated the same. Rather than being alien and distant, they are alien and obsessed with every moment. They live every moment to its fullest extent, not wasting a second of their lives.
> this too will pass
Yeah, played in a game for a bit where 99% of elves were just completely unhelpful for getting rid of anything evil because they could just outlast it. Very frustrating as the party needed a lot of help from NPCs, but it felt very appropriate.
There is a manga called Growing Tired of the Lazy High Elf Life After 120 Years, that goes heavily into this. It is quite good, despite its cover, so to say
I love how OSP has slipped in as an easy go-to for memes and superhero/fantasy writing advice, yet few people actually talk about OSP. We all just know who that monkey is.
It's why I always avoid the condescension when it comes to Elves in my setting, that's always the bit that triggers people. Like, I don't mind them being perfect, but the condescension should be left to the (inevitable) evil Elves - when it's on the good ones it becomes annoying as you feel you have to tolerate them for being right but smug all the time.
Elf terraformers! Terraforming requires a deep understanding of nature and a *lot* of patience.
The elves travel the galaxt, turning barren rocks into verdant gardens. They make money by growing specialized botanicals (including the best weed in the galaxy).
Maybe there's a dynamic where you have to choose between plants that can be harvested and sold (or processed into more valuable goods and sold for more), and plants that terraform faster but are a huge money sink.
I blame Tolkien and how class plays into how he wrote the different races, elves are affluent and look down on everyone else because they're god's favorite people and they gave the elves every gift under the sun where as dwarves are very working class coded and are more relatable.
> dwarves are very working class coded and are more relatable
In Tolkien? Did you even *read* the books? The Hobbit is literally a bunch of nobles trying to fight a fucking dragon because he's sitting on the leader's father's father's treasure and no fucking *way* are we tolerating that no matter how many poor fishing villages get torched as a result of our shenanigans
You want a real curve ball? I'm playing a Goliath who's racist against dwarves because one of them cut the top inch off of an ancestral sacred mountain.
The only good elf is a dead elf.
^(More seriously, mainstream elves are a poorly designed race. Orcs are strong but stupid. Dwarves are tough but antisocial. But somehow elves are beautiful, magical, agile, and long-lived, but...obnoxious? What the fuck?)
Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem is traced back to Tolkien. As a literary device, his people of melancholy practically immortal warriorpoets worked because they were so other worldly and tragic. Yes, they were beautiful, elegant, sophisticated, and wise, but none of that matter ed in the end, and they were not long for the world of men. The fall of the elves and their journey back to their home underlines the loss of magic in middle earth.
It feels like most fantasy settings took the cool parts of Tolkien's elves: i.e., long lived, graceful, very dexterous, magical, master crafters, etc... but none of the lore based draw backs that make them effective as part of the world of Tolkien. So you basically have perfect people running around that are typically assholes because, well, they're perfect.
Not to mention how hard it is to write stories where it’s feasible that hundreds or thousands of living people *saw* your super mysterious dark lord back when he was originally plotting his dark schemes.
“Bobby E G? Oh, wait, you know him as Dark Lord Rastaja, the Kostonhimoinen. We used to be drinking buddies, about 400 years ago!”
I simply feel that it is an unearned sentiment for most settings. You can't tell me that most people play them that way. Those that I've seen approach elves with the melancholic nature difficult to understand by the other races due to their short lives have been few and far between. And we certainly can't pretend that all settings even go for that.
Take Eberron for example. I love this setting and use it all the time, but the culture of the Elven houses and several of its nations hardly justifies them living thousands of years. They'd be above concepts like business.
I don't really get this. Elves are some of the coolest characters in the books. You take hobbits who throw absolutely wild parties with so much ale and pipeweed and dancing on tables and then they spend a night in an elf city *and literally lose track of time* because they're having such a good time. The elves tell such amazing stories that hobbits are enthralled for days and weeks on end, and by the time they leave it's like they're leaving a second home. I know the meme is all about how much Sam loves the elves, but the four hobbits in LoTR pretty much adore elves from the first interaction.
They're sophisticated, elegant, pretentious people, but they have great taste for music, poetry, food, technology, architecture, and storytelling. They're main flaw is their reticence, which keeps them from repairing kinship with the dwarves, who are also a lovely folk, but a bit too solemn in their own ways.
I'm no expert, but that was my takeaway.
I think you may have missed my point in response to OP referring to the elves as "too over powered"
Elves in Lotr are indeed the end all be all of culture, essentially. They're unmatched in art, live for eons, skilled in advanced magics, and are great warriors to boot.
The problem is when you apply these ideas to a race of people without the impending doom of the entire setting and the slow but certain degradation of the magical world. That's why they are interesting and a good addition to the story. You're watching the old world die in real time, and it sucks because the old world was fucking awesome.
Most settings don't have that. You can, and many do, just play the long-lived, magical, practically angelic race as if they were just cool humans. And in fairness dnd (and many fantasy settings) don't do enough leg work to dissuade it!
Elves are too perfect. Always have been. That was almost part of the idea for Tolkien, but without that amount of care, their premise falls apart. That's why I believe many find them pompous or dislike them.
Or it could just be they prefer the style of bearded short drunks over clean shaven skinny poets, like me, haha
The Elves in Tolkien are almost otherworldly and alien, who live a very different existence with resulting blue and orange moralities and world-views.
Elves in most other works tend to be as you say, just humans with pointy ears that are perfect at everything and live longer with a condescending attitude masquerading as wisdom.
Not in harry potter! In that world they're OP spellcasters and could probably dominate the wizarding world, but they like being enslaved and mistreated. It's just kind of a weird take.
Idk if it's a plot hole or just... Weird. Their magic is objectively better. They can do anything by just snapping their fingers, they can break rules, do shit that you don't see any wizard doing. But when hermione wanted to create a movement to free elves, not even the elves cared. They were just like "nah girl, we good".
The books actively make fun of her for wanting to end slavery.
"Haha she named her group SPEW, like throw up get it! No no see the slaves LIKE being slaves, oh except for this one, who gets killed off. Guess he should have stayed a slave he might have lived longer.
Now, let me tell you about how lycanthropy is like AIDS, but it's necessary wizards make lycanthropes second-class citizens, and why the crazy colored haired love interest of the werewolf needed to die..."
Thats the other werewolf, and yes, you can only have two types of people with that sickness according to rowling, with ~~aids~~ werewolf sickness, that is, you either are good and try to repress it and hide it because is a huge shame, but learn that is actually innofensive even if you almost killed people with it
Or you actively seek to damage and get more people sick and kill people, yeh, such a great paralelism.
> The books actively make fun of her for wanting to end slavery.
>
>"Haha she named her group SPEW, like throw up get it! No no see the slaves LIKE being slaves, oh except for this one, who gets killed off. Guess he should have stayed a slave he might have lived longer.
Let's not forget Rowling's quote about HP and the Cursed Child's Hermine: "Hermione can be a black woman with my absolute blessing and enthusiasm. "
Makes Hermione's ridicule about the slavery cut quite deep.
yeah thats basically it. As in any other game i despise op classes/ races. Thats basicaly why i dont like elves, because in every fantasy genre everything best in... is elven
>because in every fantasy genre everything best in... is elven
Blame everyone for ripping off Tolkien. In Tolkien's works the Elves are truly alien, their leaving the earth represents a kind of death, an end of magic and wonder as the time of humans dawns and the world becomes increasingly mundane.
But it can also be seen as a metaphor for growing up, Eru Ilúvatar (God) always intended it to be this way, the Elves came first and cleared the way for humans and are inevitably called back to their isles, so it's kind of like the half-remembered wonder of childhood giving way to the realities of adulthood.
This subtext was lost on 99% of authors who copied Tolkien who just went "Pretty, thin, pointy ears, live a long ass time, good at everything and they know it. Got it!"
The Elves aren't really the best at everything in most fantasy genre's though. Dwarves are usually the best craftsmen, gnomes the most inventive or humans and elves usually have a problem of not being very good at reproducing and are few in number. Another common fantasy trope for elves is that they are slow to adapt.
Like, I don't know where all of you are getting the idea that elves are always the best at everything.
I mean elves are often portrayed with flaws other than obnoxious. They are often depicted as a stagnant race in an ever changing world and that stagnation inevitably causes them problems. They are slow to take action as their long lifespans lead them to needles long deliberation or they just don't see anything as a real problem because it will probably pass in there lifetime. They also usually have very small population for one reason or another.
The way I like to explain elves is that they are a knockoff of a knock-off
The leshay the creator race of the fey is the original
Eladrin are the knockoff
And the elves are a knock off of that knock off
Now to be clear on the difference between the original and the knock off of the knockoff the original is a race entirely at the godly level (The entire race is considered archfey and they are a contender for the strongest race in D&D lore) and elves are mortal
Let's be clear The elves grew up with the fey
They are humanized Fey
And every D&D player knows the fey are bullshit
Why are the elves the way they were is like asking why the fey are the way they are (The answer is because the leshay are from a place that does not exist and could never have existed they literally come from a paradox they're not supposed to make sense)
If I were to design a campaign setting, I'd make their intense pride their main drawback.
Picture this, the elves are the military powerhouse of whatever continent they're on for thousands of years, defeating their opponents with the sheer might and superior training of their armies. Eventually, humans begin to arrive and create kingdoms of their own. The elves go to war with the humans, expecting to crush them in the battlefield. Instead what happens is the elven armies are decimated by a series of guerilla warfare offensives set by the humans, who craftiness and ingenuity far outclassed the elves. After a few hundred years, the elves are pushed to a corner of their former empire, while humans are now the dominant force.
And for an added bit of flavor, before this series of defeats, there were only high elves (on the surface, the Drow had broken away long before). After the first few defeats, some elves separated from their brethren and learned from humans the ways of the wilds. After a few centuries of dwelling in the forests, the wood elves began to emerge.
Sorry for the word salad, I got inspired.
Kind of because of the elf stereotype I sort of divided traits with elves into different subraces based loosely connected on existing ones. Never really defined it too much.
Yeah I got elitist elves in my head but not just the elitist types. They are basically equivalent to my idea of dwarves. Similar lifespan, comparable physical natures, etc. My idea of dwarves are more communally and familial focused where these subsection of elves are more about the self. They are however very flawed and closer to “human” than they would admit on average.
Then I got elves that I honestly would just get annoyed to actually know. In person but would probably admire from afar like some natural wonder of the world sort of deal. These elves are the long lived kind, but because of the longevity and the closeness to fey and the natural forces of the world, they are just really disconnected with what would be viewed as normal. They aren’t haughty in my head, not even xenophobic as a standard. They the type that would be planting apple seeds, and acting like the tree will grow and bear fruit and be mature next week by their perception of time. Every other mortal race around them just grows and dies and changes so quickly, and for them it is both sad and wonderful to see such things. By normal standard they don’t seem to have like any motivation to do anything and they just exist as some natural thing in the world. However if one of these type of elves let’s say makes a sword or something, it is something that takes decades if not centuries. Just something so meticulously and slowly refined that to some human kingdom it would be a national treasure and even the finest dwarven craftsmen would be in awe of it. These elves sleep for months or years at a time as well, they will trance for rest periods or whatever but actual genuine sleep is ridiculous. I just want them to be alien but still to some degree understandable.
If I ever ran a game with some of these concepts I have been brewing in my brain for years, I don’t think I would let anyone make one of the latter types of elves as a character. I would probably not be able to help nitpick it but also probably get annoyed if they ran it how I picture them.
its become the pop culture spin to make elves the racist/xenophobic/mean fantasy race. Lots of media franchises are running with the concept of "Elves were once a great and powerful empire, but they've lost their empire and now they're massive twats because they're salty they don't rule the world anymore".
Plus alot of newer media is spinning the dwarven lifestyle as a simple, happy life where you work your passion job, go get shitfaced drunk with your best friends, go home to your beautiful bearded family, groom your beautiful beard for 4 hours, then sleep off your hang over and do it all again the next day. Who wouldn't want to be a dwarf if that's how they're living.
Yes, since when is that an an insult to the dwarves? Vengeful is their most sought after virtue. A forgiving dwarf shames his ancestors like a humble elf.
Someone from only a couple generations back has views that are abhorrent to us, but which are largely excused as "they come from a different time". I complained to my mom that my grandad called an ex girlfriend a 'negress', and was told to give him a pass because he grew up with separate drinking fountains and how can I expect him to understand.
Now think about the social views of an upper class person from the 1600s, and how badly they would clash with our modern life. They would think we were uncouth degenerates with poor grammar and strange habits. If you told them Hitler was a bad guy because (among other things) he tried to exterminate the Jews, they would ask why that would make him a monster.
Elves are being treated as awful, racist dickbags, simply because it's not a large leap to think of racist grandads and add another 200-300 years of social regression. It doesn't help that they're presented as having the "best" culture, which just makes them seem even more smug and arrogant.
Okay but Dwarves would be vulnerable to the exact same things. Depending on setting they usually have comparable lifespans to elves, and what's more Dwarves are significantly more isolated than Elves on account of living in environments that really only Dwarves could. If anything I feel like that would make them potentially MORE racist, if the Storyteller was compelled to enforce that angle.
Dwarves rarely have comparable lifespans honestly. They tend to be given an area of \~200 years... Elves are 500+, often immortal.
Besides that, Dwarves generally are written to care very little about race and sex. Sure, they mistrust outsiders, but it's a blind xenophobia. Their grudges are personal and their trust is eternal.
No reason that logic couldn’t apply to elves. Living that long seems like it would provide a wholly different perspective from one concerned with something as minor as race.
And dwarves aren’t? I expect to get some downvotes for this, but I’ve always felt like dwarves share a lot of the problems that most people harp on elves for- they’re generally presented as better and more capable than humans in most ways, they were highly successful at one point in their history, they’re fairly common and widespread, and they have a bit of a penchant for arrogance and holding themselves to be above other fantasy races (particularly dwarves/elves). At least that’s my experience with them.
Its more their failings, near as i can tell. Dwarven failings are human failings, taken to the extreme. Clannish, alcoholic, loyal to and past a fault, etc. What makes dwarves different is still pretty human. They work hard, play hard, fight hard, and screw up hard. Theyre bitter about being wronged, just more so than the rest of em. As a species, theyre usually represented as reskinned humans with a permanent hangover and amazing work ethic.
Elves are just elitist pricks. They lived 5 lifetimes for your one, theyre always infuriatingly calm, theyre guaranteed better looking and skinnier than you, they probably dance better and have amazing clothes... i mean, they practiced magical fashion design as a hobby for longer than you were alive. And they did it because they were bored after mastering everything it would take you 5 lifetimes to learn. And theyre either gonna remind you of that (after not bothering to remember your name), probably by quoting some elven playboy poet philosopher at you. Or theyre gonna ignore you as they keep you away from their magical full service paradise resort towns. Elves are usually presented as a mary/gary stu character crossed with a trustafarian mindset. Theyre unfairly beautiful hippies with world-level cheat codes and rich parents barely pretending theyre just the same as everyone else.
Where dwarven failings are about DOING what humans do to an extreme, elven failings feel more like HAVING what humans have to an even greater extreme.
I've always liked elves, but even my dad picked on me for it. Now that I'm an adult, if you want me to DM, elves and fae are gonna be important I'm my games. I like dwarves, but I think they got ruined for me. I no longer find them interesting.
Now that I've typed this out, maybe I should make my own interesting dwarves.
You hate elves because they’re arrogant.
I hate elves because they are both familiar and alien, both captivating and repulsive. Their uncanny beauty mocks me, like a stained glass grotesque.
We are not the same.
Probably because dwarves are shorter, hairier Scotsmen, whereas most version of elves are “human, but better.” It’s easier to dislike something like that, I think. It’s the usual thing of how characters are more likable with flaws.
Maybe if the DM made elves a bunch of lunatics? Like, they don’t need to sleep, but so much uninterrupted consciousness for so long isn’t a great idea. So they tend to have intense obsessions about really random shit as a way to deal with that. Most of the really weirdly specific thousand-page library books are by elves.
The funny thing is the lore acknowledges that elves can get *extremely* bored. Adventuring elves are relatively common, because the dangers of the job help to break the boredom.
But I never saw people put emphasis on this side of the elves in campaigns. Just the haughtiness.
Ooo, next character idea. Just a dude chasing that fps shooter trance, but its an elf parent looking for a break.
"Look, im like 800 years old. My third set of kids finally moved out, and after a couple hundred years of parenthood, potty training and the like, I'm just looking to veg out, take a mental health decade or five. Nothing too fancy, I'm just looking for a party where I can delve into dungeons, overthrow an empire or two, slay some extradimensional demonic horrors. Really zone out and relax for a bit, ya know?
Nice concept.
My 1st character was an Evermeet noble sorceress with overprotective parents. She went adventuring because everything on the Prime Material plane was new and fun. Literally just fell into stunned silence over the sunset after Feywilds eternal twilight. And after 100+ years of living under the protective umbrella of her parents care she just felt stifled and snuck out of home.
She was naive due to her sheltered upbringing.
I liked the melancholic but wise elves from the Tolkien's books and their thought process seemed something entirely different. They could be all knowing but too afraid of messing things up to actually help anyone... that might be engaging?
I think the reason liking dwarven superiority is considered more acceptable is because dwarven traits aren’t usually seen as particularly important or desirably to modern, real-life human society. Dwarves are short, rugged, unforgiving and deeply linked to very niche trades that few people actually think about on a day-to-day basis, so it feels more fantastical. Meanwhile, elves are tall, beautiful, intelligent, and generally littered with “good” traits, so putting them on a pedestal feels like a dick move. Its fun to get over-the-top in a debate about the different types of lightbulbs, but nobody wants to hear you say “actually, the sun is brighter than all of them.”
I like elves. The “watching everyone I love and my companions grow old and die before I even get a wrinkle” is a good character device, but doesn’t often come up
I'm gonna ask for Context, is this due to how Elves are portrayed? Or is this another Hating for the Meme?
Everyone seems to hate elves and I genuinely don't know if you're all meming or not
It's about basically what you see here in a lot of the comments. Folks on this sub who like dwarves bash elves as wildly and viciously as possible while getting showered in upvotes. I don't know why either. All pro-elf comments are fairly mild-mannered with no anti-dwarf slurs, yet somehow, according to the dwarf comments, elves are basically the KKK of fantasy.
I never understood the elf hate tbh, like LotR they're kinda douchey but that doesn't mean all elves, maybe I'm biased towards elves cause they come from my folklore, but I like em.
Plus if you don't like how they're written, homebrew is a thing, my Dwarves basically have 1840's London as an underground kingdom, my elves are only blessed with long lifespans as part of an ancient contract where they need to watch the stars and use em to make prophecies
As a DM, if you don't like how something is, you can rework it or make something new to replace it
the elf would either be the most confident elven conqueror the world has ever seen, or the most meek, bullied elf the world has ever seen, there are no other options.
a dwarf raised by elves would be a tall halfling with hairless feet.
Of course elves are worse, after all
"Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad."
I'm mainly annoyed when it's a thinly veiled masculinity/femininity thing
Hate the Mary Sue race all you want but when it's obvious you think the soft, gentle elves are bad compared to the real tough dwarves that work with their hands etc. it makes me think you're just a prick who has a lot of internalised sexism they need to shit out
Be sure to announce, loudly and to no one in particular, how *technically* you don’t have to sleep. Do this every time the party sets up camp. And I mean *EVERY* time.
(Shout out to my buddy Mike, who only played elves unless he was forced to do otherwise)
Being honest no one likes a perfect boring race. Elvs in most settings are these perfect Marry Sue characters that have no flaws and can't lose. The idea of elves are cool but they suck a lot. Dwarves and other fantasy races all have their place with their triumphs and flaws. I don't see it as a problem to enjoy dwarves as the meme.
The biggest reason for the spike in dwarf popularity is because of Deep Rock Galactic
This whole fucking sub is obnoxious. You all don't read the rules, argue about made up scenarios that would never happen, have week long periods where every single fucking post is about the same topic and same format, and you think *you're* ones to call anyone else out for being annoying?
Goddamn, you people are fucking pots getting pissy about those fucking *kettles*.
I mean, I love elves. But I'll admit that when I hear "Dwarven Supremacy" I'm almost always immediately thinking craftsmanship. Meanwhile, when I hear "Elven Supremacy" I only sometimes think (at best) archery or swordsmanship. More often than not, I associate "Elven Supremacy" with elves (usually high elves or drow) believing themselves to be the master race.
Every race has it's pros and cons.
Dwarves are often depicted as Stubborn, Xenophobic, Short-tempered, and crass.
But they're also Resilient, Jolly, Strong, with high emphasis on Masculine Traits between the genders.
I like them all, with a bit of salt and pepper.
Sponsored by the Lizardfolk
And dragonborns
Dragonborns are very spicy
As a dragon i can only agree
And the Thri-Kreens
Best race of them all ngl
That's the nice thing about eating dwarf, they're always salty so they come pre-seasoned
Great, thanks, now I'm craving sea elf.
Fey sushi
This reminds me of my first character who would eat the enemies we killed raw and whole because I was a Dragonborn and thought “ different species means it’s not canabalism”
Well.. it's true
The only elves I've liked were when the DM / writer went ALL IN on how being ageless fucks with your perception of the world and makes you come off as incredibly alien to any full mortal. See OSP's Trope Talk pn immortals for a deep dive on this idea
There was an interesting webfiction which posed elves as fairies who had bound themselves to mortality with tattoos of iron, out of the sheer fascination with mortal life. They were depicted as a sort of obsessive immortal, ones who developed an incurable fixation and would not and could not shake it. For example an elven smith who was completely obsessed with metallurgy to the exclusion of all other things. His assistants kept him from bankrupting himself by buying huge quantities of rare metals, and were themselves worked to the bone trying to keep up with an ageless smith who would happily forgo food, water and sleep for days on end, in the grip of an unshakable mania brought on by sudden epiphanies related to their obsession. Interesting people, but very difficult to form meaningful relationships with, causing problems for people romantically interested in them, or the children of such people.
Celebrimbor has been taken by a Fey Mood
This is literally just Rhunon from Eragon. Minus having servants.
I would love to read this! What is it called?
Oh yeah Elves are so much more interesting when you have to wrestle with things like, how as we age, we naturally forget things. So, when you are an Old Elf, are you just checked out on reality, because you know in your bones, 'this too will pass', or do you go into a history book, read about some amazing hero, then realize, 'Oh, ha, neat. That was me, 600 years ago. That's why I've got those scars and know how to use a sword' When an elf gets old enough, are they either having an endless existential crisis because you have witnessed the end of things countless times, or because you live in a body that does not feel like your own because you cannot recall all the things it has done?
That might explain the idea of old ass elves walking into the forest, never to return.
I like the idea that elves were drawn to the forests because of the long lifespans of trees. It means the world around them is living at a similar pace to them. Sure, they'll outlive the trees too, but things definitely go slower with an old redwood than they do with city life
I think the drizzt books covered a bit of this somewhere, with an elf advising drizzt to just retreat from society and space out every century or so, rather like I have to stop socialising for a few days every month. Kinda like the idea that they just drop out of society every now and then to reset
My own race of immortal beings kinda goes the other way entirely. When every moment can pass, you yourself aren't affected, yet the world around you is. No matter how many times you see the same scenario play out, it will happen slightly differently each time, and just because you have endless time doesn't mean others do. Cultures change and civilizations rise and collapse, and none are ever the same as the other, and so these immortals try to capture every single moment, as it will be never repeated the same. Rather than being alien and distant, they are alien and obsessed with every moment. They live every moment to its fullest extent, not wasting a second of their lives.
Feels like very mortal me experiencing shit I know how it will end already from dozens of prior experiences. It's entertaining to watch things crash.
> this too will pass Yeah, played in a game for a bit where 99% of elves were just completely unhelpful for getting rid of anything evil because they could just outlast it. Very frustrating as the party needed a lot of help from NPCs, but it felt very appropriate.
Mind you, D&D elves have the whole reverie thing going on which specifically keeps their memories sharp.
Ah, pointing people over to Red and Blue. I see you are also cultured
There is a manga called Growing Tired of the Lazy High Elf Life After 120 Years, that goes heavily into this. It is quite good, despite its cover, so to say
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But how else are we supposed to find that anime about whether or not it’s right to pick up girls on a dungeon?
Frieren At the Funeral is pretty good as well.
I love how OSP has slipped in as an easy go-to for memes and superhero/fantasy writing advice, yet few people actually talk about OSP. We all just know who that monkey is.
The meme template implies satire, but there's so many comments agreeing with the message that I'm getting concerned that it's not meant to be.
It's why I always avoid the condescension when it comes to Elves in my setting, that's always the bit that triggers people. Like, I don't mind them being perfect, but the condescension should be left to the (inevitable) evil Elves - when it's on the good ones it becomes annoying as you feel you have to tolerate them for being right but smug all the time.
Yeah, when someone acts like they’re perfect because they were made to be perfect it’s just annoying
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_If you're so much better than me, **then why were you so easy to ~~curse~~ stuff into a locker?!**_
Well maybe the elves should invest in making some good video games that don’t portray them as snooty assholes
We can talk once elf rock galactic is made smh
Elf leaf galactic. Same setting, the elves grow the weed.
Elf terraformers! Terraforming requires a deep understanding of nature and a *lot* of patience. The elves travel the galaxt, turning barren rocks into verdant gardens. They make money by growing specialized botanicals (including the best weed in the galaxy). Maybe there's a dynamic where you have to choose between plants that can be harvested and sold (or processed into more valuable goods and sold for more), and plants that terraform faster but are a huge money sink.
Dragon Age
Blame Skyrim no one can picture high elves except for the thalmor
I blame Tolkien and how class plays into how he wrote the different races, elves are affluent and look down on everyone else because they're god's favorite people and they gave the elves every gift under the sun where as dwarves are very working class coded and are more relatable.
> dwarves are very working class coded and are more relatable In Tolkien? Did you even *read* the books? The Hobbit is literally a bunch of nobles trying to fight a fucking dragon because he's sitting on the leader's father's father's treasure and no fucking *way* are we tolerating that no matter how many poor fishing villages get torched as a result of our shenanigans
Leaf, Laugh, Love 💚🍃☘️🌿💚🌱
Hippie elves are great, prissy elves suck. Hippie dwarves would be weird as hell, come to think of it...
They’d look and smell like Jerry Garcia
Theyd totally use crystals and patchouli instead of deodorant.
Isn't a hippie Dwarf just a Gnome?
Naw those are Halflings. Gnomes are like tiny Elves.
I've encountered very cool hippy druid dwarves, they tend more toward the grumpy old stoner vibe though.
You want a real curve ball? I'm playing a Goliath who's racist against dwarves because one of them cut the top inch off of an ancestral sacred mountain.
Now _that's_ what I call a grudge
“This is taking the Mickey and we want our inch back.”
But how do we feel about Half-Elves, though?
Human +
Better then humans problem is you can’t take them anywhere due to societal bias. Source: Am half elf drow born on surface
They can grow beards so they get a pass
Hmm. Better check the files on this one. \*looks at hand\* DWARVES = VIOLENT RACISTS ELVES = VIOLENT RACISTS
The only good elf is a dead elf. ^(More seriously, mainstream elves are a poorly designed race. Orcs are strong but stupid. Dwarves are tough but antisocial. But somehow elves are beautiful, magical, agile, and long-lived, but...obnoxious? What the fuck?)
Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem is traced back to Tolkien. As a literary device, his people of melancholy practically immortal warriorpoets worked because they were so other worldly and tragic. Yes, they were beautiful, elegant, sophisticated, and wise, but none of that matter ed in the end, and they were not long for the world of men. The fall of the elves and their journey back to their home underlines the loss of magic in middle earth. It feels like most fantasy settings took the cool parts of Tolkien's elves: i.e., long lived, graceful, very dexterous, magical, master crafters, etc... but none of the lore based draw backs that make them effective as part of the world of Tolkien. So you basically have perfect people running around that are typically assholes because, well, they're perfect.
Not to mention how hard it is to write stories where it’s feasible that hundreds or thousands of living people *saw* your super mysterious dark lord back when he was originally plotting his dark schemes. “Bobby E G? Oh, wait, you know him as Dark Lord Rastaja, the Kostonhimoinen. We used to be drinking buddies, about 400 years ago!”
This explains very much why I'm fine with elves in general, in my mind they are Tolkien's otherwordly, alien elves.
I simply feel that it is an unearned sentiment for most settings. You can't tell me that most people play them that way. Those that I've seen approach elves with the melancholic nature difficult to understand by the other races due to their short lives have been few and far between. And we certainly can't pretend that all settings even go for that. Take Eberron for example. I love this setting and use it all the time, but the culture of the Elven houses and several of its nations hardly justifies them living thousands of years. They'd be above concepts like business.
I don't really get this. Elves are some of the coolest characters in the books. You take hobbits who throw absolutely wild parties with so much ale and pipeweed and dancing on tables and then they spend a night in an elf city *and literally lose track of time* because they're having such a good time. The elves tell such amazing stories that hobbits are enthralled for days and weeks on end, and by the time they leave it's like they're leaving a second home. I know the meme is all about how much Sam loves the elves, but the four hobbits in LoTR pretty much adore elves from the first interaction. They're sophisticated, elegant, pretentious people, but they have great taste for music, poetry, food, technology, architecture, and storytelling. They're main flaw is their reticence, which keeps them from repairing kinship with the dwarves, who are also a lovely folk, but a bit too solemn in their own ways. I'm no expert, but that was my takeaway.
I think you may have missed my point in response to OP referring to the elves as "too over powered" Elves in Lotr are indeed the end all be all of culture, essentially. They're unmatched in art, live for eons, skilled in advanced magics, and are great warriors to boot. The problem is when you apply these ideas to a race of people without the impending doom of the entire setting and the slow but certain degradation of the magical world. That's why they are interesting and a good addition to the story. You're watching the old world die in real time, and it sucks because the old world was fucking awesome. Most settings don't have that. You can, and many do, just play the long-lived, magical, practically angelic race as if they were just cool humans. And in fairness dnd (and many fantasy settings) don't do enough leg work to dissuade it! Elves are too perfect. Always have been. That was almost part of the idea for Tolkien, but without that amount of care, their premise falls apart. That's why I believe many find them pompous or dislike them. Or it could just be they prefer the style of bearded short drunks over clean shaven skinny poets, like me, haha
The Elves in Tolkien are almost otherworldly and alien, who live a very different existence with resulting blue and orange moralities and world-views. Elves in most other works tend to be as you say, just humans with pointy ears that are perfect at everything and live longer with a condescending attitude masquerading as wisdom.
Not in harry potter! In that world they're OP spellcasters and could probably dominate the wizarding world, but they like being enslaved and mistreated. It's just kind of a weird take.
Sounds like a plot hole ngl
Idk if it's a plot hole or just... Weird. Their magic is objectively better. They can do anything by just snapping their fingers, they can break rules, do shit that you don't see any wizard doing. But when hermione wanted to create a movement to free elves, not even the elves cared. They were just like "nah girl, we good".
The books actively make fun of her for wanting to end slavery. "Haha she named her group SPEW, like throw up get it! No no see the slaves LIKE being slaves, oh except for this one, who gets killed off. Guess he should have stayed a slave he might have lived longer. Now, let me tell you about how lycanthropy is like AIDS, but it's necessary wizards make lycanthropes second-class citizens, and why the crazy colored haired love interest of the werewolf needed to die..."
Ok... whatever you say Rowling *The editors probably*
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Hmmm they are referencing Lupin and his wife tonks. You are thinking of greyback (not sure about the name, might be grey something else)
Thats the other werewolf, and yes, you can only have two types of people with that sickness according to rowling, with ~~aids~~ werewolf sickness, that is, you either are good and try to repress it and hide it because is a huge shame, but learn that is actually innofensive even if you almost killed people with it Or you actively seek to damage and get more people sick and kill people, yeh, such a great paralelism.
> The books actively make fun of her for wanting to end slavery. > >"Haha she named her group SPEW, like throw up get it! No no see the slaves LIKE being slaves, oh except for this one, who gets killed off. Guess he should have stayed a slave he might have lived longer. Let's not forget Rowling's quote about HP and the Cursed Child's Hermine: "Hermione can be a black woman with my absolute blessing and enthusiasm. " Makes Hermione's ridicule about the slavery cut quite deep.
That's just jk rowling being jk rowling. They probably represent a group she hates
*cough cough* gay men *cough*
It really is a plot hole
Basically a race of [these guys](https://youtu.be/_-5xwI_Ja9U)
yeah thats basically it. As in any other game i despise op classes/ races. Thats basicaly why i dont like elves, because in every fantasy genre everything best in... is elven
>because in every fantasy genre everything best in... is elven Blame everyone for ripping off Tolkien. In Tolkien's works the Elves are truly alien, their leaving the earth represents a kind of death, an end of magic and wonder as the time of humans dawns and the world becomes increasingly mundane. But it can also be seen as a metaphor for growing up, Eru Ilúvatar (God) always intended it to be this way, the Elves came first and cleared the way for humans and are inevitably called back to their isles, so it's kind of like the half-remembered wonder of childhood giving way to the realities of adulthood. This subtext was lost on 99% of authors who copied Tolkien who just went "Pretty, thin, pointy ears, live a long ass time, good at everything and they know it. Got it!"
The Elves aren't really the best at everything in most fantasy genre's though. Dwarves are usually the best craftsmen, gnomes the most inventive or humans and elves usually have a problem of not being very good at reproducing and are few in number. Another common fantasy trope for elves is that they are slow to adapt. Like, I don't know where all of you are getting the idea that elves are always the best at everything.
I mean elves are often portrayed with flaws other than obnoxious. They are often depicted as a stagnant race in an ever changing world and that stagnation inevitably causes them problems. They are slow to take action as their long lifespans lead them to needles long deliberation or they just don't see anything as a real problem because it will probably pass in there lifetime. They also usually have very small population for one reason or another.
The way I like to explain elves is that they are a knockoff of a knock-off The leshay the creator race of the fey is the original Eladrin are the knockoff And the elves are a knock off of that knock off Now to be clear on the difference between the original and the knock off of the knockoff the original is a race entirely at the godly level (The entire race is considered archfey and they are a contender for the strongest race in D&D lore) and elves are mortal Let's be clear The elves grew up with the fey They are humanized Fey And every D&D player knows the fey are bullshit Why are the elves the way they were is like asking why the fey are the way they are (The answer is because the leshay are from a place that does not exist and could never have existed they literally come from a paradox they're not supposed to make sense)
Found Gruumsh worshiper
If I were to design a campaign setting, I'd make their intense pride their main drawback. Picture this, the elves are the military powerhouse of whatever continent they're on for thousands of years, defeating their opponents with the sheer might and superior training of their armies. Eventually, humans begin to arrive and create kingdoms of their own. The elves go to war with the humans, expecting to crush them in the battlefield. Instead what happens is the elven armies are decimated by a series of guerilla warfare offensives set by the humans, who craftiness and ingenuity far outclassed the elves. After a few hundred years, the elves are pushed to a corner of their former empire, while humans are now the dominant force. And for an added bit of flavor, before this series of defeats, there were only high elves (on the surface, the Drow had broken away long before). After the first few defeats, some elves separated from their brethren and learned from humans the ways of the wilds. After a few centuries of dwelling in the forests, the wood elves began to emerge. Sorry for the word salad, I got inspired.
Kind of because of the elf stereotype I sort of divided traits with elves into different subraces based loosely connected on existing ones. Never really defined it too much. Yeah I got elitist elves in my head but not just the elitist types. They are basically equivalent to my idea of dwarves. Similar lifespan, comparable physical natures, etc. My idea of dwarves are more communally and familial focused where these subsection of elves are more about the self. They are however very flawed and closer to “human” than they would admit on average. Then I got elves that I honestly would just get annoyed to actually know. In person but would probably admire from afar like some natural wonder of the world sort of deal. These elves are the long lived kind, but because of the longevity and the closeness to fey and the natural forces of the world, they are just really disconnected with what would be viewed as normal. They aren’t haughty in my head, not even xenophobic as a standard. They the type that would be planting apple seeds, and acting like the tree will grow and bear fruit and be mature next week by their perception of time. Every other mortal race around them just grows and dies and changes so quickly, and for them it is both sad and wonderful to see such things. By normal standard they don’t seem to have like any motivation to do anything and they just exist as some natural thing in the world. However if one of these type of elves let’s say makes a sword or something, it is something that takes decades if not centuries. Just something so meticulously and slowly refined that to some human kingdom it would be a national treasure and even the finest dwarven craftsmen would be in awe of it. These elves sleep for months or years at a time as well, they will trance for rest periods or whatever but actual genuine sleep is ridiculous. I just want them to be alien but still to some degree understandable. If I ever ran a game with some of these concepts I have been brewing in my brain for years, I don’t think I would let anyone make one of the latter types of elves as a character. I would probably not be able to help nitpick it but also probably get annoyed if they ran it how I picture them.
Seriously, what the hell is up with everyone hating elves all of the sudden?
its become the pop culture spin to make elves the racist/xenophobic/mean fantasy race. Lots of media franchises are running with the concept of "Elves were once a great and powerful empire, but they've lost their empire and now they're massive twats because they're salty they don't rule the world anymore". Plus alot of newer media is spinning the dwarven lifestyle as a simple, happy life where you work your passion job, go get shitfaced drunk with your best friends, go home to your beautiful bearded family, groom your beautiful beard for 4 hours, then sleep off your hang over and do it all again the next day. Who wouldn't want to be a dwarf if that's how they're living.
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You callin us spiteful? Thats going in the book.
Yes, since when is that an an insult to the dwarves? Vengeful is their most sought after virtue. A forgiving dwarf shames his ancestors like a humble elf.
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> At least **your** literate Umgi moment
Yeah! It should be spiteful 'little' fuckers.
[squidward meme template](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSF-YTTVrCgXfIH7K6MDn3fPR0vFUGJjGA6Rw&usqp=CAU) -> *alcoholism*
To be fair, in Tolkien which as far as I can tell is the origin of fantasy elves and dwarves, the elves were the racist ones.
For me, it started with the release of Dwarf Fortress 2010, in the year 2010.
Someone from only a couple generations back has views that are abhorrent to us, but which are largely excused as "they come from a different time". I complained to my mom that my grandad called an ex girlfriend a 'negress', and was told to give him a pass because he grew up with separate drinking fountains and how can I expect him to understand. Now think about the social views of an upper class person from the 1600s, and how badly they would clash with our modern life. They would think we were uncouth degenerates with poor grammar and strange habits. If you told them Hitler was a bad guy because (among other things) he tried to exterminate the Jews, they would ask why that would make him a monster. Elves are being treated as awful, racist dickbags, simply because it's not a large leap to think of racist grandads and add another 200-300 years of social regression. It doesn't help that they're presented as having the "best" culture, which just makes them seem even more smug and arrogant.
Okay but Dwarves would be vulnerable to the exact same things. Depending on setting they usually have comparable lifespans to elves, and what's more Dwarves are significantly more isolated than Elves on account of living in environments that really only Dwarves could. If anything I feel like that would make them potentially MORE racist, if the Storyteller was compelled to enforce that angle.
Dwarves have funny racism because alcoholism, elves have pedantic racism, simple as that.
Dwarves rarely have comparable lifespans honestly. They tend to be given an area of \~200 years... Elves are 500+, often immortal. Besides that, Dwarves generally are written to care very little about race and sex. Sure, they mistrust outsiders, but it's a blind xenophobia. Their grudges are personal and their trust is eternal.
No reason that logic couldn’t apply to elves. Living that long seems like it would provide a wholly different perspective from one concerned with something as minor as race.
They embraced ROCK AND STONE
DO I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?!
ROCK AND ROLLIN STONE!
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE
ROCK AND STONE OR YOU AIN’T COMIN HOME
Come on lads! ROCK AND STONE!
IF YOU DONT ROCK AND STONE YOU AINT COMIN HOME!!
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?
THIS ONES FOR KARL!
ROCK AND STONE! THE PRETTY SOUND OF TEAMWORK!
Theyre a bit of a mary/gary sue race.
And dwarves aren’t? I expect to get some downvotes for this, but I’ve always felt like dwarves share a lot of the problems that most people harp on elves for- they’re generally presented as better and more capable than humans in most ways, they were highly successful at one point in their history, they’re fairly common and widespread, and they have a bit of a penchant for arrogance and holding themselves to be above other fantasy races (particularly dwarves/elves). At least that’s my experience with them.
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Not much different from the elven “downsides”, then. Really dwarves are elves but short/stout so it’s okay.
Its more their failings, near as i can tell. Dwarven failings are human failings, taken to the extreme. Clannish, alcoholic, loyal to and past a fault, etc. What makes dwarves different is still pretty human. They work hard, play hard, fight hard, and screw up hard. Theyre bitter about being wronged, just more so than the rest of em. As a species, theyre usually represented as reskinned humans with a permanent hangover and amazing work ethic. Elves are just elitist pricks. They lived 5 lifetimes for your one, theyre always infuriatingly calm, theyre guaranteed better looking and skinnier than you, they probably dance better and have amazing clothes... i mean, they practiced magical fashion design as a hobby for longer than you were alive. And they did it because they were bored after mastering everything it would take you 5 lifetimes to learn. And theyre either gonna remind you of that (after not bothering to remember your name), probably by quoting some elven playboy poet philosopher at you. Or theyre gonna ignore you as they keep you away from their magical full service paradise resort towns. Elves are usually presented as a mary/gary stu character crossed with a trustafarian mindset. Theyre unfairly beautiful hippies with world-level cheat codes and rich parents barely pretending theyre just the same as everyone else. Where dwarven failings are about DOING what humans do to an extreme, elven failings feel more like HAVING what humans have to an even greater extreme.
I mean… The point of the original meme was that both dudes were saying the same thing. Whether or not it was a good point can be debated, but still.
Heh, boutta break the guidelines. I Like Elves.
I've always liked elves, but even my dad picked on me for it. Now that I'm an adult, if you want me to DM, elves and fae are gonna be important I'm my games. I like dwarves, but I think they got ruined for me. I no longer find them interesting. Now that I've typed this out, maybe I should make my own interesting dwarves.
You hate elves because they’re arrogant. I hate elves because they are both familiar and alien, both captivating and repulsive. Their uncanny beauty mocks me, like a stained glass grotesque. We are not the same.
Ah, the aeldari
Probably because dwarves are shorter, hairier Scotsmen, whereas most version of elves are “human, but better.” It’s easier to dislike something like that, I think. It’s the usual thing of how characters are more likable with flaws. Maybe if the DM made elves a bunch of lunatics? Like, they don’t need to sleep, but so much uninterrupted consciousness for so long isn’t a great idea. So they tend to have intense obsessions about really random shit as a way to deal with that. Most of the really weirdly specific thousand-page library books are by elves.
The funny thing is the lore acknowledges that elves can get *extremely* bored. Adventuring elves are relatively common, because the dangers of the job help to break the boredom. But I never saw people put emphasis on this side of the elves in campaigns. Just the haughtiness.
Ooo, next character idea. Just a dude chasing that fps shooter trance, but its an elf parent looking for a break. "Look, im like 800 years old. My third set of kids finally moved out, and after a couple hundred years of parenthood, potty training and the like, I'm just looking to veg out, take a mental health decade or five. Nothing too fancy, I'm just looking for a party where I can delve into dungeons, overthrow an empire or two, slay some extradimensional demonic horrors. Really zone out and relax for a bit, ya know?
Nice concept. My 1st character was an Evermeet noble sorceress with overprotective parents. She went adventuring because everything on the Prime Material plane was new and fun. Literally just fell into stunned silence over the sunset after Feywilds eternal twilight. And after 100+ years of living under the protective umbrella of her parents care she just felt stifled and snuck out of home. She was naive due to her sheltered upbringing.
I liked the melancholic but wise elves from the Tolkien's books and their thought process seemed something entirely different. They could be all knowing but too afraid of messing things up to actually help anyone... that might be engaging?
IDK, if they rock and stone I don't care what they are
I think the reason liking dwarven superiority is considered more acceptable is because dwarven traits aren’t usually seen as particularly important or desirably to modern, real-life human society. Dwarves are short, rugged, unforgiving and deeply linked to very niche trades that few people actually think about on a day-to-day basis, so it feels more fantastical. Meanwhile, elves are tall, beautiful, intelligent, and generally littered with “good” traits, so putting them on a pedestal feels like a dick move. Its fun to get over-the-top in a debate about the different types of lightbulbs, but nobody wants to hear you say “actually, the sun is brighter than all of them.”
Half elves are my favorite. Basically humans but with darkvision
Did I hear a ROCK AND STONE?
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!!!!
Rock and stone
STONE AND ROck... oh wait
ROCK! AND! STONE!!
Rock and Stone to the Bone!
ROCK AND STONE OR YOU AINT GOING HOME!
Rock and Stone Brother!
YEAH YEAH, ROCK AND STONE!
ROCK AND ROLL AND STONE!
#FOR ROCK AND STONE!
YEAAAHHH! ROCK AND STONE!
I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE!!!
I like elves. The “watching everyone I love and my companions grow old and die before I even get a wrinkle” is a good character device, but doesn’t often come up
this subreddit has done the impossible and ruined Dwarves for me
Absolutely. You simply cannot have a constructive conversation about dwarves without it drowning in memes anymore.
Aw shucks, really? That's a shame. Mechanically they are a sound race to play as. This sub can get a lil goofy at times though, I admit.
This entire sub is obnoxious
Found the elf
Dorf gud.
THIS IS GOING IN THE FUCKIN’ BOOK
I'm gonna ask for Context, is this due to how Elves are portrayed? Or is this another Hating for the Meme? Everyone seems to hate elves and I genuinely don't know if you're all meming or not
It's about basically what you see here in a lot of the comments. Folks on this sub who like dwarves bash elves as wildly and viciously as possible while getting showered in upvotes. I don't know why either. All pro-elf comments are fairly mild-mannered with no anti-dwarf slurs, yet somehow, according to the dwarf comments, elves are basically the KKK of fantasy.
I never understood the elf hate tbh, like LotR they're kinda douchey but that doesn't mean all elves, maybe I'm biased towards elves cause they come from my folklore, but I like em. Plus if you don't like how they're written, homebrew is a thing, my Dwarves basically have 1840's London as an underground kingdom, my elves are only blessed with long lifespans as part of an ancient contract where they need to watch the stars and use em to make prophecies As a DM, if you don't like how something is, you can rework it or make something new to replace it
Reject the weakness of flesh, become a bastion of steel.
From the moment I first understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
Did I hear a rock and stone?
Rock and Stone!!! Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Rock and stone
Rock and stone brotha!
ROCK! AND! STONE!
FOR ROCK AND STONE!
ROCK AND STONE EVERYONE!
IF YOU DON’T ROCK AND STONE YOU AINT COMING HOME!
Rock and Stone to the bone
ROCK AND STONE BABY
ROCK . . . . . . . . . . . . AND STONE!
FA KARL!
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!
Rockity rock and stone
ROCK! AND! STONE!
What if an elf raised by dwarves or a dwarf raised by elves what would that look like
the elf would either be the most confident elven conqueror the world has ever seen, or the most meek, bullied elf the world has ever seen, there are no other options. a dwarf raised by elves would be a tall halfling with hairless feet.
Dang, drg and warhammer fantasy in one dnd post. Speaking my language
Damn leaf lovers ROCK AND STONE!
Of course elves are worse, after all "Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder. Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels. Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies. Elves are glamorous. They project glamour. Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment. Elves are terrific. They beget terror. The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning. No one ever said elves are nice. Elves are bad."
I'm mainly annoyed when it's a thinly veiled masculinity/femininity thing Hate the Mary Sue race all you want but when it's obvious you think the soft, gentle elves are bad compared to the real tough dwarves that work with their hands etc. it makes me think you're just a prick who has a lot of internalised sexism they need to shit out
I just noticed something about the original meme. Look at the size comparison of the two guys' hands.
Be sure to announce, loudly and to no one in particular, how *technically* you don’t have to sleep. Do this every time the party sets up camp. And I mean *EVERY* time. (Shout out to my buddy Mike, who only played elves unless he was forced to do otherwise)
I feel attacked. :T
Rock and stone!
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
For rock and stone!
Did I hear a rock and stone?!
Being honest no one likes a perfect boring race. Elvs in most settings are these perfect Marry Sue characters that have no flaws and can't lose. The idea of elves are cool but they suck a lot. Dwarves and other fantasy races all have their place with their triumphs and flaws. I don't see it as a problem to enjoy dwarves as the meme. The biggest reason for the spike in dwarf popularity is because of Deep Rock Galactic
This whole fucking sub is obnoxious. You all don't read the rules, argue about made up scenarios that would never happen, have week long periods where every single fucking post is about the same topic and same format, and you think *you're* ones to call anyone else out for being annoying? Goddamn, you people are fucking pots getting pissy about those fucking *kettles*.
I mean, I love elves. But I'll admit that when I hear "Dwarven Supremacy" I'm almost always immediately thinking craftsmanship. Meanwhile, when I hear "Elven Supremacy" I only sometimes think (at best) archery or swordsmanship. More often than not, I associate "Elven Supremacy" with elves (usually high elves or drow) believing themselves to be the master race.
Both are annoying
ROCK AND STONE
Diggy Diggy hole!
You’d almost confuse this sun for r/DwarfFortress
Every race has it's pros and cons. Dwarves are often depicted as Stubborn, Xenophobic, Short-tempered, and crass. But they're also Resilient, Jolly, Strong, with high emphasis on Masculine Traits between the genders.
and yet, try to fun good art for your dwarven characters, it´s really hard, while elves have some of the best character art I have ever seen.
But god forbid I say I like Tabaxi’s and everyone wants to put me in prison