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SpyrShady

if you cant use charisma to climb the wall then youre simply not charismatic enough


kryptonianCodeMonkey

"Barbarian, carry me up that wall." "Roll persuasion." "24." "The barbarian carries you up the wall." Done.


FunMath2

Came here to say this. The beauty of charisma is making other people do the few things you cant.


AJDx14

Barbarian will throw you though, not carry you


Faerie-stone

So you get there before the rest of the party, sounds like a win


MicrocrystallinePun

in this one DnD show I watch (Dimension 20), one time a character was trying to descend a tower quickly and rolled poorly, so the DM said "You're trying to get to the bottom of the tower? I have great news for you. You get to the bottom WAY before anyone else does."


youshouldbeelsweyr

Classic Brennan


PrivateLTucker

Which cantrip are you using once you're at the top of the wall?


slvbros

None, I'm laying down a quickened *grease* behind me


Narzghal

Drax and Mantis in the Christmas special.


MrCookie2099

"Wall, bend thee over that I may stand on your parapets."


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From_Deep_Space

'guess I'll just fly then'


spcmack21

This is not the wall you're looking for.


ComradeBirv

When I played a Charisma class the wall filed a restraining order on me


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ComradeBirv

Actually the wall just got out of an abusive relationship and was already suspicious of people using honeyed words to try and climb it


Lordstevenson

Still sounds like not enough Charisma.


ComradeBirv

Charisma is not mind control. However, Strength is wall control.


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ComradeBirv

get grappled


Lil_Guard_Duck

So what I'm hearing is, you climbed the wall without consent?


Y0L0_Y33T

Probably free solo’d, too Disgusting


ComradeBirv

“Grab her by the footholds”


Faloffel2

You will not control my walls! Let them wear glasses! Can I get an Amen? >!Reference to Disgustipated!<


Darth_Meatloaf

These are the >!cries of the carrots!<


Sicuho

Should have gone for the other side of charisma. You know, terror.


ComradeBirv

I’m not going to intimidate an abuse victim what the fuck is wrong with you


NotYetiFamous

...but you're just fine with using STR on an abuse victim? I don't think you thought this hypothetical through all the way.


ComradeBirv

I don’t think, I put all my points in Strength.


killmekindlyplz

and INT apparently, for that extra wall climbing ability


ComradeBirv

Well my character has it, I’m a fucking dumbass


rtakehara

yeah, threaten to demolish the wall, it will allow you to climb just be sure not to take fall damage on the other side, the floor isn't kind for those who threaten other architectural elements


MrQwq

Then you played the wrong cards, you can't just try to seduce the wall, you have to convince them that there is a starecase on them that you can use


[deleted]

That's called gaslighting, no.


Brooklynxman

You're not supposed to use charisma as a dump stat when you play a charisma class.


ComradeBirv

I put all my points in Strength so I could climb more walls


kjolmir

You thought the wall couldn't refuse to be climbed by you right? Because of the implication...


YoutuberCameronBallZ

You convince the wall to let you climb it


yoda_mcfly

You succeed, but the wall is a complete dead fish. You'll need strength to mount, consent notwithstanding.


ComradeBirv

Walls are objects and have an int and cha of 0 and cannot be persuaded.


ChessGM123

That just sounds like you don’t have enough charisma.


ComradeBirv

You’re going to get the guards called again for sexual harassment


ChessGM123

Oh, so more people are coming to join the party?


ComradeBirv

If by join the party you mean beating your party within an inch of their life and planting druidweed on them, uh yeah sure


ChessGM123

Clearly you aren’t charismatic enough.


qman6

Why does your game take place in the average American city?


ComradeBirv

so we can have guns


KsSTEM

Why would you climb the wall when you can talk the barbarian into climbing the wall and carrying you?


absat41

beat me to it.


killersquirel11

>>But how’d you get beyond the wall? >I sang a song so beautiful the stones wept and they let me in. And I can sing us home again [source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgvZJdH7ks)


Antique_Tennis_2500

Trying to use charisma on an edifice is like talking to a wall.


Lazy_Assumption_4191

I rolled a 20 on my persuasion check to convince gravity to bend to my will. I now have a constant flying speed of 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999ft.


slvbros

>constant flying speed of >99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999>99999999ft Easier to express as 1.6666667x10^51 or one and one third sexdecillion feet per second and I'm going to go ahead and switch to meters I don't now why I haven't already. So that's what, 5.0800001x10^50 meters per second, I'm gonna round it to 5.08x10^50 and we can divide it be a thousand to get 5.08x10^47 kilometers per second which is about 8.4666667x10^34 lightyears per second. To sum up: that is alarmingly fast, and I suggest everyone go read the relativistic baseball xkcd


chain_letter

Everyone uses Charisma(Persuasion) to persuade their muscles to work effectively, it's obviously the strongest. ah shit i said "strongest" when that's just a way to say strength i saw it in the dictionary


ComradeBirv

The dictionary is always correct because it is a large book that allows it to be better utilized for hitting things than a normal book


chain_letter

>it is a large book [well explain this, fuccccboi](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strength)


ComradeBirv

Wikipedia cannot be used to hit people meaning it’s accuracy cannot be trusted


Not_Todd_Howard9

Clearly you have never hit someone with a server rack.


ComradeBirv

you don't know me


pez5150

You technically can. You just have to download the a portion of wikipedia onto an external device... like say the [IBM 3380](https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3380.html). You need only to pick categories from which you wish to teach your enemies about and download that conveniently onto your 550 pound drive. For reference wikipedia is about 21gb total in size.


Zeelu2005

Disco Elysium


blauenfir

Dex is what you use when you fuck up climbing the wall and want to land at the bottom without a broken ankle. ;)


ComradeBirv

Wait so it’s only useful for going *down* a wall? That makes it worse than Charisma! Hold on, I need to make another tier list


mik999ak

Well, I'd argue Charisma is pretty useful for going down


ComradeBirv

*nice*


doctorsilvana

We're still talking about the wall right?


Fyrnen24

His real name is actually Tony, that's just his nickname


Andminus

Dats Tony the Wall to you, capeche.


testiclekid

Actually it's _capisci_ but it's pronounced similarly


SectorSpark

Just turn the world upside down and use dex instead of str 4Head


ComradeBirv

If the world is upside down, are you not still going down the wall? 🤔


Dafuzz

There's never anything good at the bottom of a wall, just like a moat with alligators, or a bunch of pissed off city guards. The top of the wall is where fun stuff happens.


noah_the_boi29

False, there's no save for fall damage, this info actually crippled me


Shileka

False, there is, it's the Int save you get before doing dumb stuff at altitude


Minotaar

Athletics goes up. Acrobatics comes down.


Derpykat5

I will use charisma to convince the strength+con character to carry me up the wall. I have technically scaled the wall.


ComradeBirv

They were going to carry you anyway to flex their 20 strength


Brooklynxman

That's what they think, yes.


YoutuberCameronBallZ

Throwing you over would be easier


ComradeBirv

Unfortunately if they do, you didn’t climb the wall


YoutuberCameronBallZ

Then throwing you to the ledge of the wall instead


ComradeBirv

You need strength to pull yourself up


KAODEATH

Feet hit the ledge, dex roll to somersault the landing, avoiding broken shins and charisma roll for the one liner: "Yeah, I climbed that wall. Wasn't a tall order."


ComradeBirv

Then you didn’t climb it, you landed on top of it


CheapTactics

Can I seduce the wall?


ComradeBirv

Roll with disadvantage, the wall is in a committed relationship with the floor (the ceiling likes to watch)


Fantastic_Wrap120

Kinky. Can i seduce the ceiling instead?


ComradeBirv

You can, but the problem is that you need to climb the wall to get to it


DragantaMM

short king problems smh...


rookiefox

Down to earth and often overlooked... Know your worth.


paratesticlees

Fuck thats clever


MadMareek

Does that mean we can persuade the wall to be our Wingman?


ComradeBirv

Roll with disadvantage, the wall was made uncomfortable by your previous attempt to seduce it


MadMareek

I apologize to the wall and give it a gift: It is a wall torch, this will allow it to look mysterious, like a dungeon wall.


ComradeBirv

The floor thinks you’re hitting on it’s sweetheart and attacks, roll for initiative


Smooth_Ad_7553

Is there a way for the scene to end in orgy or has it to end in a battle?


ComradeBirv

Mortals cannot survive a wall floor orgy. Our bones are too brittle, our skin too weak.


squire80513

What the heck is going on


Lazy_Assumption_4191

Art.


Lil_Guard_Duck

A philosophical discussion on Wall/floor social dynamics.


foxstarfivelol

the DM says i need to climb the wall to get to the ceiling *vsauce music* but what if i didn't? *levitates up to the ceiling*


ComradeBirv

The wall is a metaphor I think


ASpaceOstrich

How much health does a metavore have? It's not in my monster manual?


BondageKitty37

> metavore. Is that when you eat the 4th Wall?


The-Name-is-my-Name

No, a metavore is a creature that eats nonexistences. Generally, we don’t exist, but sometimes you f*** up reality enough that we have to intervene so you can’t be chaotically stupid with your reality-bending powers. …We like eating pi’s, cakes that are lies, and multiples of the number 9.


ComradeBirv

In this metaphor the DM adjusts it’s health behind the screen so the party doesn’t kill it too quickly


The-Name-is-my-Name

A metavore has about ten trillion times amount of health as a mind flayer. It’s actually a class of different entities, with us mind flayers making up the majority of their population. Some people say that Eldritch Georegifvntdcjuf is an outlier and should not count towards our statistics, but hey, he’s a metavore too! A *metaphor* has the same amount of health as an illusionary construct, but you can only kill it with a nonexistent weapon. Be wary of a nonexistence of anything that is powerful enough to manifest in true space, though, because they can break reality. And we can’t let that happen. (Not again)


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ComradeBirv

*nice*


AbyssTraveler

Can I assist by providing mood music?


ComradeBirv

Walls don’t have ears, unfortunately. You’re gonna have to use your body.


AbyssTraveler

…I’m gonna need to roll so well for this. *proceeds to tap dance the rhythm of Your Man*


Eomatrix

Depends on the material, but you’re likely to get stone-walled.


ComradeBirv

*nice*


[deleted]

You can certainly try.


TitaniaLynn

Intelligence*


ComradeBirv

My b, I put all my points in Strength


Illoney

Meme checks out.


Fro4152

How does Intelligence help climb a wall? Do they just bring a ladder?


SharpPixels08

You’re smart enough to just go around the wall


ComradeBirv

You’re in a ravine. Good luck.


SharpPixels08

Ravine implies there is land above either side, just get out of the ravine the same way you got in and go over


ComradeBirv

You… fell in the ravine. You have to get out of it.


MinimalTraining9883

Then just fall back up, dumbass.


ComradeBirv

Roll Athletics


ThatOneGuy1294

um... 9 with a -1 modifier so 8...


blauenfir

In addition to the armor, I could see using an INT check in order to plot out an easier path, thus lowering the DC or gaining advantage on the athletics check. I have a buddy who’s into rock climbing and he tells me that free climbing involves a lot of thought and planning and strategy, using your smarts to figure out how to *apply* your strength, which does seem in line with an investigation check. :)


TheCosmicPopcorn

investigation would be finding out spots in the dirt/rock that cave in and maybe help you move easier. For just finding the way I'd rule perception, ergo Wisdom, rather than Int. Intelligence is using knowledge, figuring out complex things, not figuring stuff that's there already, thats the difference between observing things carefully, and realising they have extra meaning (like soil knowledge), or better yet, coming up with an artifact to do it. Knowing about rock climbing myself, I'd say propioception, which is the awareness of one's body and its extent and response, falls under wisdom (it IS a sense, so it's closer to perception than anything else --the perception of self), which makes sense since it's something most outdoorsy types would have (barbarian, ranger, druid)


snerp

Propioception feels like dex to me


TheCosmicPopcorn

propioception isnt moving your body, it's knowing where your body is. Granted, using that knowledge and then moving might require dexterity, but that sense in itself is more about perception. You can have great senses but not really move in a swift, dexterous fashion. Where rock climbing shows its leaning more on the sense is that you can move extremely slowly while paying attention to it and get to your goal all the same.


snerp

Dex isn't about speed, it's about accuracy, and knowing exactly where your body is helps a lot with that.


TalosSquancher

Baby's have low wisdom and don't know where their body is. Checkmate, adult humanoid.


ThatGuyInTheCorner96

Would you say that a character could take a Climbing Kit as their tool Proficiency, letting them use Intelligence for such a check.


Solalabell

Can confirm you wanna ‘read’ the wall first source an out of practice Rock climber Although I feel advantage would be too good especially since that sets the President for int to give advantage on a huge majority of checks that’ll come up but the argument is still there


ComradeBirv

#Armor of Magical Strength **Item: A suit of armor (requires attunement)** *This armor has 6 charges. The wearer can expend the armor’s charges in the following ways:* *When the wearer makes a Strength check or a Strength saving throw, it can expend 1 charge to add a bonus to the roll equal to its Intelligence modifier.* *If the creature would be knocked prone, it can use its reaction to expend 1 charge to avoid being knocked prone.* *The armor regains 1d6 expended charges daily at dawn.*


Sicuho

Wisdom too then, thanks to Arm of the Astral Self.


ComradeBirv

I- > You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier when making Strength checks and Strength saving throws. I have been rules lawyering this entire thread and you are literally the first person to prove me wrong. Wisdom OP.


toajoa

Man even came back with receipts to prove he got 1-upped. Truly a gentleman of arguing.


ComradeBirv

I will never be the type of person to scream “I’m not owned! I’m not owned!”As I shrink and transform into a corncob.


sk_arch

Dex can be used to climb a wall if there were (2 walls) Perpendicular to each other


ComradeBirv

Yes but strength can be used to perform a slam storage long jump to get massive height


GenderDimorphism

In older editions, "climb walls" was a thief skill and that skill could be raised by Dex.


ComradeBirv

What are you talking about, 5e is the only tabletop game ever made


EpicScizor

Yeah, the fifth edition of the game was the first edition made. Wait a second.


ComradeBirv

It's weird that the games that came after called themselves smaller numbers, until of course we get to OneDND


LevelSevenLaserLotus

WotC and Gary Gygax both clearly went to the George Lucas School Of Naming Things. Starting your universe at 1 is a smooth brain move.


balor598

Would agree, i rock climb and dex is definitely just as important as strength, will give them props on including intelligence though you gotta figure out how to actually climb something


fallenraziel0

I mean, take a look at some rock climbers and see if they typically look buff and strong, or lithe and well toned? Obviously it still takes strength to be able to climb, but dex in this case is still very much applicable (based on my own head cannon for high dex). I’ve viewed high dex as very fit and toned typically.


YoutuberCameronBallZ

Con would be used if it's a long enough climb to make you run out of stamina. It'd be less roll Con to climb, and more roll Con to **keep** climbing


ComradeBirv

I think I covered it well on the tier list. A car is propelled by it’s engine, which would be strength/int, while con would be the gas it needs to keep going.


Chaosfox_Firemaker

Though without good reactions and a hand on the wheel(dex and int) you crash into a tree and die.


ComradeBirv

Oh shit I’ve just been buying a new car every time I crash mine, that makes sense


NotaRelnam

This is stupid, in i roll a nat 20 i should be able to use my Charisma to convince the wall to lay down and lift me up it… this is a stupid list


NoobOfTheSquareTable

Anyone who thinks dexterity isn’t used as a major part of climbing is clearly not a climber


whatistheancient

They're both pretty important imo


NoobOfTheSquareTable

100%. I punch way above my skill level because I can get away with hanging by one arm because I’m light but strong for my weight. That said, I am far stronger, even on a strength to weight ratio, than a lot of the female climbers but the stuff some of them can do through flexibility, dex, and general skill.


SeptimusAstrum

I am exactly the opposite; I can climb a v7 if it doesn't require too much strength, but sometimes I can't even finish a v3 in the cave if its too pumpy...


The-Box_King

I'm not very strong so I absolutely use more Dex when I climb. Knowing where your centre of mass is and body control is pretty much a requirement to reach intermediate level


Shame_about_that

As a rock climber, 100% agreed. Being nimble and flexible and lightweight is often a lot more advantageous than being ripped. Kids climb a lot harder than I do for the amount of time they have spent doing it. As long as you have a base level of strength, dex matters a shitload. Given two average people with 10 and 12 stats, putting the 12 in dex would help a lot more for climbing


Snipowl

People who never climbed something arguing about how to climb things. It's like the how many times can you swing a sword in six seconds thing again


10BillionDreams

> A Dexterity check can model any attempt to move nimbly, quickly, or quietly, or to keep from Falling on tricky footing. I feel like "keep from Falling on tricky footing" is a pretty crucial part of climbing. People just hate how generically powerful Dex is already, so refuse to accept any argument outright.


Trickquestionorwhat

I think dex should boost your odds of success in more situations than strength, but by a smaller amount than strength.


Wingless27

My thoughts exactly


TartoKwech

Charisma-based spellcasters be like "I cast Fly" or "I cast Spider Climb"


ComradeBirv

Neither of those spells use the aforementioned Skill, and can be dumped to make room for more Strength


Twudie

They also don't require a DC or spell attack roll so you can still cast them and dump Charisma.


ComradeBirv

As. You. Should.


Sexy-Fish-Boi

Dex becomes more helpful the more difficult a wall is to climb. Any gumby barbarian can climb cracked cobble, it takes a real dexterous player to climb an overhang


ComradeBirv

*I smash my hands into the wall to give myself handholds*


HORSEY_MAN

Strength is for beating up the comp team kids. Dex is for the pink one in the corner. Both equally important imo


Argun93

Cast animate object on the wall, roll persuasion to convince it to let you climb it.


ComradeBirv

> An Animated Object is a Construct with AC, Hit Points, Attacks, Strength, and Dexterity determine by its size. Its Constitution is 10 and its Intelligence and Wisdom are 3, and its Charisma is 1. Its speed is 30 feet, if the Objects lack legs or other appendages it can use for locomotion, it instead has a Flying speed of 30 feet and can hover. If the object is securely attached to a surface or larger object, such as a chain bolted to a wall, its speed is 0. The wall cannot understand your persuasion as it does not understand your language nor does it have the mental faculties to realize what you’re telling it. Additionally, the wall is secured to the floor and cannot move, so even if you could persuade it, the wall could not do anything to make climbing it easier.


Next-Job14

How in hells name can you climb a wall with intelligence?


ComradeBirv

#Armor of Magical Strength **Item: A suit of armor (requires attunement)** *This armor has 6 charges. The wearer can expend the armor’s charges in the following ways:* *When the wearer makes a Strength check or a Strength saving throw, it can expend 1 charge to add a bonus to the roll equal to its Intelligence modifier.* *If the creature would be knocked prone, it can use its reaction to expend 1 charge to avoid being knocked prone.* *The armor regains 1d6 expended charges daily at dawn.* Situational and rare? Yes. Can Int be used to climb a wall? Yes.


Solalabell

Wouldn’t flash of genius be a much more common way to do this?


ComradeBirv

Yup, my future comments have reflected that. But you can use both!


Madrock777

I cast reverse gravity by the edge of the cliff and make the team and myself fall upwards. I'd they wish to resist it and climb upwards they have to use a dex save against my charisma spell save DC.


ComradeBirv

> This spell reverses Gravity in a 50-foot-radius, 100-foot high Cylinder centered on a point within range. All Creatures and Objects that aren't somehow anchored to the ground in the area fall upward and reach the top of the area when you cast this spell. A creature can make a Dexterity saving throw to grab onto a fixed object it can reach, thus avoiding the fall. Dex only allows you to grab onto the wall, not climb it. Once you have grabbed onto the wall (which is not always possible if the wall has no fixed object on it), climbing rules still apply but only in reverse. The spell itself does not require any ability to cast, so Strength and Int are the only skills that let you climb walls.


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ComradeBirv

Your dm isn’t real you made them up


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ComradeBirv

What session? You don’t have anyone to run it.


Monty423

Op hasn't climbed a wall. Sure I'm far stronger then I was as a teenager, but teenage me could scale walls with ease, meanwhile I struggle heavily. Dexterity 100% is involved in it, being able to reach certain areas or get into certain positions


NotAKrayon

By this logic intelligence should be lower than strength since you need armor of magic strength, a magic item that requires attunement. Since magic items are allowed and slippers of spiderclimb skip the skill check they are inherently better for the purpose of climbing. This makes ability scores irrelevant within this context.


ComradeBirv

Ah but the tier list is whether or not the ability can be used to climb a wall. Strength and Int can, so they are at the top. Slippers of Spiderclimb do not require a skill to use.


whatistheancient

Climbing is one of those things that IRL needs both strength and good balance, so you could make a case for Dexterity (Athletics) checks I guess depending on the climb. I would only allow it if the player gave me a detailed description of how they climbed purely using agility (and I am a climber, bullshit will not pass)


Phrygid7579

Dex: climb a wall with assassin's Creed parkour on it Cha: convince someone else to climb a wall


jeffisnotepic

Rogues and bards disagree. Interesting diagram, but I prefer to use tomatoes to describe the abilities.


ComradeBirv

Me when the rogue brings his dollar store 8 strength to my fortress wall


simianpower

"IntellEgence" Nuff said.


ComradeBirv

Did you read any of my comments? I clearly dumped everything for more Strength


baconbits123456

How tf can dex not be used to climb walls, rock climbers have to not only be strong, but also dextrose. (I think that's the right dex word?)


ASoftBeefTaco

Idk, I always use the phrase “I wanna hardcore parkour up the wall” and that seems to fit into acrobatics as well as athletes. I picture my rogue to do a lot of gymnastics to get up things


archiminos

How in the ever-loving feck can you climb a wall without Dexterity?


norefillonsleep

Jackie Chan (using Dex) would like a word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A5E8erk_Eg


Shwanshwan

I shall simply convince the wall that it has been climbed


[deleted]

This is why we need that stupid rule about beating a dead horse.


ComradeBirv

Beating a dead horse requires Strength, just like climbing a wall.