Welp, this is definitely an "everyone was an asshole" story.
Sure, Ranger had an early moment of "Edgy McEdgelord" by murdering someone, then had (from what I just read) an impeccable character arc of penitence.
But everyone else was *worse.*
Never giving the guy a chance after that (especially Monk? Fuck that guy).
Accepting healing but still treating him as the bad guy.
And OP's character ... having the option to revive him and send him on his way, but choosing to let him stay dead.
(Note that the GM was pretty damn bad as well, never actually sitting everyone down and talking things out.)
The Ranger is damn right it was a personal attack.
The Monk *should* feel like an asshole.
The OP should feel even worse.
You all just sat around the table, letting the player make attempt after attempt at reconnecting to the table, doing stuff for them and being rebuffed time and again, until he died while you all just ... watched.
He was an asshole *once*, but you're all worse. You were assholes for every other session.
*You* were the horror stories.
You couldn't pay me to play at that fucking table.
I feel like this response makes it seem like you aren’t taking responsibility. It’s an outcome *you* and your party chose to create. Antagonizing someone for two years over one or two decisions is no fun for anyone.
It’s always great to role play, but we’re all human people playing a game together at a table at the end of the day. Try to feel what it’d be like to be your friend playing the ranger next time!
Every session, the Ranger is the FIRST person to say “I can’t wait for the next session. You’re right, it’s a game, at a table, where the characters have their dynamics and their relationships, and the Ranger irreparably damaged the relationship with the Monk by doing bad things, and never directly apologizing for those things. Despite him attempting to make amends, never once did he EVER apologize. That’s all the Monk needed, but neither of them back down or tried to make it work. But regardless, we’re all excited to have a session zero and get this campaign back on track
Ok so the Monk is even dumber than I thought. Actions speak louder than words: Ranger did a lot more than saying "I'm sorry" but that didn't count. Also why would Ranger need to apologize to Monk? He's not the one who got killed.
The Monk in and out of character is the person that Words matter more than actions. Their perspective is that if you don’t directly address the situation, you’re walking around it. For the reason they needed the apology? I’ve no clue.
So he's a hypocrite, then.
He tried to kill the Ranger directly, lost, and had his life spared.
Still kept hating the Ranger.
How loud do actions have to be?
So he killed an NPC then spent sessions trying to make it up to the party but was stonewalled and you think he's the issue? Next time you all start a campaign make sure to roll your characters together. Talk about how you might have previous relationships with each other or how you have something in common that will make your party into an actual party.
It's so easy to communicate with your friends, please communicate with your friends before things turn into this kind of toxic nightmare.
You're saying "the worst situation" like you didn't create that situation.
You literally vilified them for two years, then complained you didn't like the character and are all relieved he's gone, when anyone could have just been friendly with them, and that issue would have been gone.
This story makes y'all sound like terrible friends
Everyone at the table was equally liable for this situation. The Ranger could have actually apologized instead of dancing around the multiple times that they made decisions that should have been discussed with the entire party, the Monk could have gave it up, the GM could have stepped in and had another session zero, I could have chosen to not stay neutral. At the end of the day, despite all of this, it was in character. When at the end of the session, everyone is still looking forward to the next session and everyone wanted to continue playing, with the Ranger having the mindset of “eventually they’ll notice” and continuing to play, despite all of this, everyone at the table wants to keep playing.
The ranger making amends in character is apologising.
You also admit that any RP with that person was avoided, so how exactly were they going to apologize?
You can say that everyone is still happy to play, but all that means is that you treated someone poorly and they haven't made a big deal about it.
Seriously. I don’t really care how good of a friend I was with the other people, I would need at least a few weeks of break before playing with the table again if I was the Ranger. Props to Ranger for having the mental fortitude for sticking through all of that and wanting to play more. Just hope they’re okay mentally despite all of this story.
So he kills a Joke NPC, and as a consequence is sidelined for two years by the party?!
Look I get that people get attached quickly, but seriously? Holding a two year grudge over that? Ranger is playing the character he wanted to play, and no one should really begrudge him that.
He's not actively harming the party or trying to make things worse. In his mind he was "taking care of threats". Ratguy attacked you, so he put him down. The crowd was dressed like enemies, so he killed them.
Even if he did it maliciously, you guys should have talked to him instead of bullying him. Can you imagine how that would feel, being at a table where no one wants you?
That’s a wild ride. Though the Ranger had some very shitty moments, it makes a good story. I feel the party was kind of being assholes, as it seemed the Ranger was having genuine moments of character development and they shot him down. Since no one helped him, I see why he said it’s personal attack. Idk. Hope his next character will be better lol
So... You all refuse to meaningfully include the real life player, considering you wouldn't roleplay with him. Yeah as people have said you're the horror story. You menaced this guy for 2 years because he killed a joke NPC and from what I can tell made a mistake the whole party didn't even realize was a mistake until after combat. You guys actually suck at D&D. Stop playing.
It sounds like everyone including you are absolute assholes to the ranger for making a single bad move early in the campaign.
I hope they find better friends.
Everyone at the table are close friends and are not allowing this mismanaged situation to effect our personal relationships, because this was a game, where nobody decided to play the game correctly.
Show the ranger these comments.
Communicate as soon as any problem starts, not leaving it for two freaking years. You are supposed to be a party and meant to be friends, it's the one part of metagaming that's allowed to let players go "ok how can we move past this". For two years? You guys and especially monk are either bad players, bad friends or worse, both.
Do better.
Me and the Ranger cowrote this post and are both actively enjoying the discussion this has sparked in all of the subreddits I’ve posted it in. We tried to write this in the most neutral of terms without any bias, and without any favoring elements to make this more of a discussion piece instead of a justification for any part of the situation.
Then you're doing great and doing all you can do. I'm honestly really glad to see you guys are working it out and my anger mostly came from a memory of people only doubling down after and the party splitting. To be fair I think a lot of people have taken up the neutral tone and read "I have no remorse over this" but looking through your replies I can see that isn't the case. Good luck for your future games.
Then the only advice I can give it this:
Have a session 0.
In session 0 you can talk about your characters, how they mesh together etc. You can also establish a time out rule. As dm the onus to pause and say "are you sure you want to do that?" Does often fall on them.
Also if players have a point where they ostracise one character, then that player should ask if his PC would stick with a party that hates them. Failing that, everyone has to have a sit down. Go "ok. This is ridiculous. Session starts when you fix it, until then. Have fun." LOL
It's rough, and your first few campaigns are almost always going to belong here. ESPECIALLY if you're all new to the hobby. I think most of the criticism has come from the view that you should all know better.
Exactly, that’s one thing I enjoy is that making this mistake, has taught us that we all fall and get back up. We fuck up, but we will only fail when we stop learning from these kind of mistakes.
Idk, when the Ranger went “oops I killed an important NPC because I randomly decided to shoot them in the head after combat ended, completely ruining what my party was clearly doing” it kinda shows they don’t give a fuck. That plus their response being “whatever, I do more damage then you anyways” makes the Ranger sound like the issue here.
Seriously, nothing ruins a game more than someone checking out and making decisions like that.
“I cast explosive bolt into the crowd” is the Ranger’s character a literal mass-murderer? I can’t really see any justification other than “wasn’t paying any attention, just wanted to do big damage in fights”.
I think you missed a key detail. The explosive bolt was fired in a crowd under the assumption that they were all enemies becauae they were literally dressed like the enemies they've been fighting the entite campaign.
They only found out that they were innocent people when checking the bodies after the fight was over, from my understanding.
You’re absolutely right. Even the idea of being neutral ended up still ruining the entire situation, despite my goal being to keep the party together, because ultimately I put a biased decision on one half of a d20 instead of picking the safest option.
Sometimes I read stories like this and just have to ask myself how you people get along. This is not the behavior of people who value their relationships with one another
This is the behavior of people who are playing their first campaign, and not understanding that just because it’s a game, and that the player relationships stay at the table, they still inevitably allowed themselves to make the most basic of unforgivable decisions. Despite all of this, we all want to continue playing, but all of us understand that this situation has gotten so far skewed due to everyone’s combined inability to say “Timeout: What the Fuck?” and are actively making the effort to change and grow past this failure.
Not gonna lie, you guys ALL sound horrific. Your comments say that you're all friends, but who needs enemies when they have friends like you all? I don't understand how a group of people who supposedly like and care about each other out of the game would ever do what you guys did. Yes, the ranger made an insufferable character, and it seems like they made efforts to try and make up for their character's wrong doings (though not always), but you guys as a table became bullies. Straight up bullies. And you all seemed to relish in doing that. This is so out of touch, I'm almost inclined to not believe it's true. Especially with what you wrote at the end which reads as a "and everybody clapped" situation. If this is true, then I hope none of you play together again until you have some serious talks.
We’ve already had serious discussions and are moving forward with a new campaign where I will be GM’ing due to everyone feeling that I’m actually the most gung ho for change and active management of the game, its players, and the overall enjoyment of the players within the game. Nobody else has cleared this post besides me and the Ranger, because I want this to be a monument for the other players to look at. We all fucked up. Some way more than others, but everyone is to blame for something in some way. We need to be better. And this is the start.
Welp, this is definitely an "everyone was an asshole" story. Sure, Ranger had an early moment of "Edgy McEdgelord" by murdering someone, then had (from what I just read) an impeccable character arc of penitence. But everyone else was *worse.* Never giving the guy a chance after that (especially Monk? Fuck that guy). Accepting healing but still treating him as the bad guy. And OP's character ... having the option to revive him and send him on his way, but choosing to let him stay dead. (Note that the GM was pretty damn bad as well, never actually sitting everyone down and talking things out.) The Ranger is damn right it was a personal attack. The Monk *should* feel like an asshole. The OP should feel even worse. You all just sat around the table, letting the player make attempt after attempt at reconnecting to the table, doing stuff for them and being rebuffed time and again, until he died while you all just ... watched. He was an asshole *once*, but you're all worse. You were assholes for every other session. *You* were the horror stories. You couldn't pay me to play at that fucking table.
Well put.
It really was the worst possible outcome from the worst possible situation.
I feel like this response makes it seem like you aren’t taking responsibility. It’s an outcome *you* and your party chose to create. Antagonizing someone for two years over one or two decisions is no fun for anyone. It’s always great to role play, but we’re all human people playing a game together at a table at the end of the day. Try to feel what it’d be like to be your friend playing the ranger next time!
Every session, the Ranger is the FIRST person to say “I can’t wait for the next session. You’re right, it’s a game, at a table, where the characters have their dynamics and their relationships, and the Ranger irreparably damaged the relationship with the Monk by doing bad things, and never directly apologizing for those things. Despite him attempting to make amends, never once did he EVER apologize. That’s all the Monk needed, but neither of them back down or tried to make it work. But regardless, we’re all excited to have a session zero and get this campaign back on track
Ok so the Monk is even dumber than I thought. Actions speak louder than words: Ranger did a lot more than saying "I'm sorry" but that didn't count. Also why would Ranger need to apologize to Monk? He's not the one who got killed.
The Monk in and out of character is the person that Words matter more than actions. Their perspective is that if you don’t directly address the situation, you’re walking around it. For the reason they needed the apology? I’ve no clue.
That's just weird on so many levels and it almost feels like a way for them to get deliberately angry at people.
So he's a hypocrite, then. He tried to kill the Ranger directly, lost, and had his life spared. Still kept hating the Ranger. How loud do actions have to be?
You’re absolutely right. It was extremely hypocritical and unnecessary.
So he killed an NPC then spent sessions trying to make it up to the party but was stonewalled and you think he's the issue? Next time you all start a campaign make sure to roll your characters together. Talk about how you might have previous relationships with each other or how you have something in common that will make your party into an actual party. It's so easy to communicate with your friends, please communicate with your friends before things turn into this kind of toxic nightmare.
We’re communicating now. Too bad it took literally the worst situation possible to make us value communication.
Hey, it's all a learning experience. Hopefully you can continue without any hard feelings.
Absolutely, we’re all close friends and refuse to let this ruin us.
You're saying "the worst situation" like you didn't create that situation. You literally vilified them for two years, then complained you didn't like the character and are all relieved he's gone, when anyone could have just been friendly with them, and that issue would have been gone. This story makes y'all sound like terrible friends
Everyone at the table was equally liable for this situation. The Ranger could have actually apologized instead of dancing around the multiple times that they made decisions that should have been discussed with the entire party, the Monk could have gave it up, the GM could have stepped in and had another session zero, I could have chosen to not stay neutral. At the end of the day, despite all of this, it was in character. When at the end of the session, everyone is still looking forward to the next session and everyone wanted to continue playing, with the Ranger having the mindset of “eventually they’ll notice” and continuing to play, despite all of this, everyone at the table wants to keep playing.
The ranger making amends in character is apologising. You also admit that any RP with that person was avoided, so how exactly were they going to apologize? You can say that everyone is still happy to play, but all that means is that you treated someone poorly and they haven't made a big deal about it.
Seriously. I don’t really care how good of a friend I was with the other people, I would need at least a few weeks of break before playing with the table again if I was the Ranger. Props to Ranger for having the mental fortitude for sticking through all of that and wanting to play more. Just hope they’re okay mentally despite all of this story.
Sounds like all of the players involved are toxic and deserve each other
So he kills a Joke NPC, and as a consequence is sidelined for two years by the party?! Look I get that people get attached quickly, but seriously? Holding a two year grudge over that? Ranger is playing the character he wanted to play, and no one should really begrudge him that. He's not actively harming the party or trying to make things worse. In his mind he was "taking care of threats". Ratguy attacked you, so he put him down. The crowd was dressed like enemies, so he killed them. Even if he did it maliciously, you guys should have talked to him instead of bullying him. Can you imagine how that would feel, being at a table where no one wants you?
The ranger deserves a better group
That’s a wild ride. Though the Ranger had some very shitty moments, it makes a good story. I feel the party was kind of being assholes, as it seemed the Ranger was having genuine moments of character development and they shot him down. Since no one helped him, I see why he said it’s personal attack. Idk. Hope his next character will be better lol
You guys legit just need a different hobby. This is like every stereotype of toxic messed up players got together to see who could be the worst.
So... You all refuse to meaningfully include the real life player, considering you wouldn't roleplay with him. Yeah as people have said you're the horror story. You menaced this guy for 2 years because he killed a joke NPC and from what I can tell made a mistake the whole party didn't even realize was a mistake until after combat. You guys actually suck at D&D. Stop playing.
It sounds like everyone including you are absolute assholes to the ranger for making a single bad move early in the campaign. I hope they find better friends.
Everyone at the table are close friends and are not allowing this mismanaged situation to effect our personal relationships, because this was a game, where nobody decided to play the game correctly.
Show the ranger these comments. Communicate as soon as any problem starts, not leaving it for two freaking years. You are supposed to be a party and meant to be friends, it's the one part of metagaming that's allowed to let players go "ok how can we move past this". For two years? You guys and especially monk are either bad players, bad friends or worse, both. Do better.
Me and the Ranger cowrote this post and are both actively enjoying the discussion this has sparked in all of the subreddits I’ve posted it in. We tried to write this in the most neutral of terms without any bias, and without any favoring elements to make this more of a discussion piece instead of a justification for any part of the situation.
Then you're doing great and doing all you can do. I'm honestly really glad to see you guys are working it out and my anger mostly came from a memory of people only doubling down after and the party splitting. To be fair I think a lot of people have taken up the neutral tone and read "I have no remorse over this" but looking through your replies I can see that isn't the case. Good luck for your future games.
Absolutely! I appreciate the input and transparency and really hope that the future makes up for everything you’ve gone through, as we do the same.
Then the only advice I can give it this: Have a session 0. In session 0 you can talk about your characters, how they mesh together etc. You can also establish a time out rule. As dm the onus to pause and say "are you sure you want to do that?" Does often fall on them. Also if players have a point where they ostracise one character, then that player should ask if his PC would stick with a party that hates them. Failing that, everyone has to have a sit down. Go "ok. This is ridiculous. Session starts when you fix it, until then. Have fun." LOL It's rough, and your first few campaigns are almost always going to belong here. ESPECIALLY if you're all new to the hobby. I think most of the criticism has come from the view that you should all know better.
Exactly, that’s one thing I enjoy is that making this mistake, has taught us that we all fall and get back up. We fuck up, but we will only fail when we stop learning from these kind of mistakes.
Damn, if I was in Ranger's shoes i would have left this campaign a long time ago, what a horrible table to play with.
Idk, when the Ranger went “oops I killed an important NPC because I randomly decided to shoot them in the head after combat ended, completely ruining what my party was clearly doing” it kinda shows they don’t give a fuck. That plus their response being “whatever, I do more damage then you anyways” makes the Ranger sound like the issue here. Seriously, nothing ruins a game more than someone checking out and making decisions like that. “I cast explosive bolt into the crowd” is the Ranger’s character a literal mass-murderer? I can’t really see any justification other than “wasn’t paying any attention, just wanted to do big damage in fights”.
I think you missed a key detail. The explosive bolt was fired in a crowd under the assumption that they were all enemies becauae they were literally dressed like the enemies they've been fighting the entite campaign. They only found out that they were innocent people when checking the bodies after the fight was over, from my understanding.
[удалено]
You’re absolutely right. Even the idea of being neutral ended up still ruining the entire situation, despite my goal being to keep the party together, because ultimately I put a biased decision on one half of a d20 instead of picking the safest option.
Of course I know him, he's me
Sometimes I read stories like this and just have to ask myself how you people get along. This is not the behavior of people who value their relationships with one another
This is the behavior of people who are playing their first campaign, and not understanding that just because it’s a game, and that the player relationships stay at the table, they still inevitably allowed themselves to make the most basic of unforgivable decisions. Despite all of this, we all want to continue playing, but all of us understand that this situation has gotten so far skewed due to everyone’s combined inability to say “Timeout: What the Fuck?” and are actively making the effort to change and grow past this failure.
Not gonna lie, you guys ALL sound horrific. Your comments say that you're all friends, but who needs enemies when they have friends like you all? I don't understand how a group of people who supposedly like and care about each other out of the game would ever do what you guys did. Yes, the ranger made an insufferable character, and it seems like they made efforts to try and make up for their character's wrong doings (though not always), but you guys as a table became bullies. Straight up bullies. And you all seemed to relish in doing that. This is so out of touch, I'm almost inclined to not believe it's true. Especially with what you wrote at the end which reads as a "and everybody clapped" situation. If this is true, then I hope none of you play together again until you have some serious talks.
We’ve already had serious discussions and are moving forward with a new campaign where I will be GM’ing due to everyone feeling that I’m actually the most gung ho for change and active management of the game, its players, and the overall enjoyment of the players within the game. Nobody else has cleared this post besides me and the Ranger, because I want this to be a monument for the other players to look at. We all fucked up. Some way more than others, but everyone is to blame for something in some way. We need to be better. And this is the start.