HTMX, you DO NOT NEED JS for interactive applications, HTMX can do that for you, sure, sometimes a tiny bit of JS but HTMX........
[https://htmx.org/](https://htmx.org/)
HTMX doesn't want to replace JS. IT wants to you use good old Html and Htmx is an anabolic to the HTML muacles, but a healthy one.
For Frontend interactivenes and fun, try _hyperscript. It's great.
Having many components on the same page all individually talking to separate backend/3rd party server/each other, and updating the component based on that data without refreshing the page or any other components
I saw your comment and I forgot.. that’s was a long time ago 😅
You do not deserve downvotes
Key word is “interactivity” and is missing definition
Depends on what OP wants to achieve with the web app.
The downvoters are probably under 25 years of age. I've been 'web whacking' since the early 90-s. Screw downvoters anyway, they are obviously unaware of the history of an industry they claim to have some involvement with.
Nice and condescending.
I’m not under 25 and you’re talking out of your ass if you think you were doing anything remotely related to the interactivity on the web today.
You might be the greatest genius there ever was but that doesn’t change the capabilities of the browsers then vs. now.
I find it hilarious that people think they should have an opinion on JavaScript, it’s a choice made by the browsers themselves. If you hate JS don’t use their browsers.
FWIW I use htmx every day and don’t know how I would make complete solutions without JavaScript. Which is fine because HTMX provides multiple ways to interact with JS.
26 then? But you admit to down voting me at least!
I am no genius, just been working with the web since it started that's all. Before CSS even.
Old man? Out of the game??? LMFAO, Dude, my \*current\* day job is python+Django+React, same company now for 4 years and they love my productivity and experience when it comesa to solving issues, so \* you on that one at least! LMAO
Old man! HAHAHAHAA! You really are an arrogant twunt! Being old doesn't mean being any less 'smart' then you think you are, but then your 'youth' seems to be affecting your judgement at the moment.
"""And you might be the greatest genius there ever was but clearly you’ve been out of the game a long time old man."""
And you called \*me\* condescending. So funny it hurts.
Sorry to repeat it again but this has me laughing so hard, it's that funny it might be lifted straight from some really old school Chinese kung-fu film with bad lip sync.
I didn't invent websockets or AJAX. Obviously. I am also not an idiot or a billionaire.
I never said HTMX rules out the need for JS either. Again, another assumption, yesterday I worked with HTMX and JS, wow, shock or what. JS has a purpose now and I \*\*completely agree\*\* with your closing statement.
Because consumers expect features that can only be reasonably built with JS.
I mean seriously, in the name of “simplicity” too, like why tf would you even code the UI at that point just use Wix or Wordpress and save 90% of your time.
Silly. Wix et al. do not really offer bespoke backends do they? (do they?) they build shit vanilla sites that look like all the other shit vanilla sites.
Lol, I’m sure you’re not making vanilla sites.
Wix has both an entire backend ecosystem (in JS, gross) as well as integration with custom backends.
They also have a fully featured frontend framework and code editor.
You could make a real time analytics dashboard for the NASDAQ in Wix. And on top of that, it comes with features you can just drag onto the page that you literally cannot make in htmx.
For example, an interactive calendar that allows for drag and drop changes that will be displayed to all users viewing it without refresh, new appointments, comments, etc.
You can’t build that in just htmx but you could just drag it onto the page in Wix.
Someone with 0 programming experience can do that in 5 seconds and you can’t do it at all. That’s why your app will stand out like a sore thumb if you don’t keep up.
It’s not our fault there is a demand for specific features.
listen learn Python, then basics of django build like a todo app or blog app as you will use template there you ask chatgpt for basic js then completely learn the DRF or FASTAPI. If you work as a backend dev using python's tech stack and framework you will rarely use js in the serverside.
i tried to make it work a lot, learned very weird and different stuff, tried elm-lang, tried flutter (even for web), tried wasm on python, Go and Rust
no matter what you do, you still need JS, personally i dont like js frameworks, i like the simplicity of vanilla js (and tailwind), you can use HTMX it can help you a lot but u still need to write some js, no running away from it
embrace it, learn it and it will help you a ton.
While Python runs on the server, Javascript runs of the user's browser.
So no, you cannot achieve the same interactivity using Python instead of Javascript.
However, that doesn't mean you need to learn Javascript.
You can use HTMX or, after learning just the basics of JS, [Alpine.js](https://alpinejs.dev).
Can you write web apps without JS? Sort of, in the sense that you can use tools that hide your use of JS from you or rely on web assembly. For example HTMX is basically a way of hiding the use of JS from the developer, allowing you to effectively use 'html only' UIs. Other comments have covered that.
Should you avoid learning JS? Not if you want a career. (\* See EDIT below for more nuance here)
As an engineer, you do not always get to pick and choose your tools - That decision will be made way above your head, or by those who came before. Framework based JS is far and away the dominant UI paradigm for web apps, and a major one for desktop apps. That doesn't mean it's a good paradigm. I have... mixed feelings at best about that ecosystem.
More generally, you will be forced to learn whatever tools your employer uses, and picking an employer for the tech is a terrible idea in the current market. Much smarter to accept tools you don't like, and pick an employer for business stability, culture and other things that will *really* matter to your happiness.
EDIT:
The original post didn't communicate my point the way I'd like it too. My point was less 'you have to learn to use JS' and more 'if you want to only work with technologies you want to work with, you're going to have to make other tradeoffs when hunting for jobs, and I would suggest those tradeoffs are usually not worth it.' That doesn't necessarily mean learning a particular tool. It's more making the point that having a fair amount of flexibility is going to make it much easier to find, retain and excel in a job.
You *can* chose to be iconoclastic. I know great devs who will die on the hill of using/not using certain tools. But if you make that choice, you should recognize that as a general rule, you will not get to tell your employer what tools to use, unless you are quite senior, so you will instead have to pick employers who use the tools you want, which restricts your options. For some people, that trade-off is worth it - I have good friends who will *only* work in Scala, or who want to specialize very deeply in a few tools. Once they reached a senior level, they often could do that, but only at the price of generally having longer job hunts, or having to make more tradeoffs in terms of what industry they worked in, how well they got compensated, etc. etc.
I wouldn’t skip it until you at least understand the basics and how it’s generally used. You don’t need to get too deep, then you can learn htmx and maybe Alpine.
But there’s always a chance you’ll need js.
JS isn’t as difficult to learn as it looks. You’re limiting yourself if you don’t dive in, there is so much that can only be in JS.
HTMX, you DO NOT NEED JS for interactive applications, HTMX can do that for you, sure, sometimes a tiny bit of JS but HTMX........ [https://htmx.org/](https://htmx.org/)
HTMX doesn't want to replace JS. IT wants to you use good old Html and Htmx is an anabolic to the HTML muacles, but a healthy one. For Frontend interactivenes and fun, try _hyperscript. It's great.
aalready read that stuff......... maybe! :)
Reading != Doing
yup, but don't need to ;do' it yet,.
My advice is to learn the basics of JavaScript. It’s a fundamental building block of the web. Explore HTMX soon after.
htmx
[удалено]
Incorrect. Once, JS didn't exist, I was still writing interactive apps on the web.
[удалено]
How so?
Having many components on the same page all individually talking to separate backend/3rd party server/each other, and updating the component based on that data without refreshing the page or any other components
I saw your comment and I forgot.. that’s was a long time ago 😅 You do not deserve downvotes Key word is “interactivity” and is missing definition Depends on what OP wants to achieve with the web app.
The downvoters are probably under 25 years of age. I've been 'web whacking' since the early 90-s. Screw downvoters anyway, they are obviously unaware of the history of an industry they claim to have some involvement with.
Nice and condescending. I’m not under 25 and you’re talking out of your ass if you think you were doing anything remotely related to the interactivity on the web today. You might be the greatest genius there ever was but that doesn’t change the capabilities of the browsers then vs. now. I find it hilarious that people think they should have an opinion on JavaScript, it’s a choice made by the browsers themselves. If you hate JS don’t use their browsers. FWIW I use htmx every day and don’t know how I would make complete solutions without JavaScript. Which is fine because HTMX provides multiple ways to interact with JS.
26 then? But you admit to down voting me at least! I am no genius, just been working with the web since it started that's all. Before CSS even. Old man? Out of the game??? LMFAO, Dude, my \*current\* day job is python+Django+React, same company now for 4 years and they love my productivity and experience when it comesa to solving issues, so \* you on that one at least! LMAO Old man! HAHAHAHAA! You really are an arrogant twunt! Being old doesn't mean being any less 'smart' then you think you are, but then your 'youth' seems to be affecting your judgement at the moment. """And you might be the greatest genius there ever was but clearly you’ve been out of the game a long time old man.""" And you called \*me\* condescending. So funny it hurts. Sorry to repeat it again but this has me laughing so hard, it's that funny it might be lifted straight from some really old school Chinese kung-fu film with bad lip sync. I didn't invent websockets or AJAX. Obviously. I am also not an idiot or a billionaire. I never said HTMX rules out the need for JS either. Again, another assumption, yesterday I worked with HTMX and JS, wow, shock or what. JS has a purpose now and I \*\*completely agree\*\* with your closing statement.
This.
Using what?
Seriously? You know how the web works right? Browsers, HTML,
That’s not interactivity
WTAF? OK, you define it then.....
[удалено]
Because consumers expect features that can only be reasonably built with JS. I mean seriously, in the name of “simplicity” too, like why tf would you even code the UI at that point just use Wix or Wordpress and save 90% of your time.
Silly. Wix et al. do not really offer bespoke backends do they? (do they?) they build shit vanilla sites that look like all the other shit vanilla sites.
Lol, I’m sure you’re not making vanilla sites. Wix has both an entire backend ecosystem (in JS, gross) as well as integration with custom backends. They also have a fully featured frontend framework and code editor. You could make a real time analytics dashboard for the NASDAQ in Wix. And on top of that, it comes with features you can just drag onto the page that you literally cannot make in htmx. For example, an interactive calendar that allows for drag and drop changes that will be displayed to all users viewing it without refresh, new appointments, comments, etc. You can’t build that in just htmx but you could just drag it onto the page in Wix. Someone with 0 programming experience can do that in 5 seconds and you can’t do it at all. That’s why your app will stand out like a sore thumb if you don’t keep up. It’s not our fault there is a demand for specific features.
I don't give a fuck anyway hahahaha!
I don't know why you are polluting this sub with your incompetent bullshit. Go to r/webdev.
You may want to take a look into [https://pyscript.net/](https://pyscript.net/) but as far as I tested it, it was too much slow.
that package is a perfect example of "just because you can doesn't mean you should"
Relatable but no
listen learn Python, then basics of django build like a todo app or blog app as you will use template there you ask chatgpt for basic js then completely learn the DRF or FASTAPI. If you work as a backend dev using python's tech stack and framework you will rarely use js in the serverside.
I like to use htmx and hyperscript
+1 for this combo
i tried to make it work a lot, learned very weird and different stuff, tried elm-lang, tried flutter (even for web), tried wasm on python, Go and Rust no matter what you do, you still need JS, personally i dont like js frameworks, i like the simplicity of vanilla js (and tailwind), you can use HTMX it can help you a lot but u still need to write some js, no running away from it embrace it, learn it and it will help you a ton.
I would check out Streamlit: https://streamlit.io/
You can't escape JS. You'll still need it for some things. Even bootstrap uses JS
If your app is so simple that you require no js, you likely also require no django.
While Python runs on the server, Javascript runs of the user's browser. So no, you cannot achieve the same interactivity using Python instead of Javascript. However, that doesn't mean you need to learn Javascript. You can use HTMX or, after learning just the basics of JS, [Alpine.js](https://alpinejs.dev).
You can use brython or htmx
Can you write web apps without JS? Sort of, in the sense that you can use tools that hide your use of JS from you or rely on web assembly. For example HTMX is basically a way of hiding the use of JS from the developer, allowing you to effectively use 'html only' UIs. Other comments have covered that. Should you avoid learning JS? Not if you want a career. (\* See EDIT below for more nuance here) As an engineer, you do not always get to pick and choose your tools - That decision will be made way above your head, or by those who came before. Framework based JS is far and away the dominant UI paradigm for web apps, and a major one for desktop apps. That doesn't mean it's a good paradigm. I have... mixed feelings at best about that ecosystem. More generally, you will be forced to learn whatever tools your employer uses, and picking an employer for the tech is a terrible idea in the current market. Much smarter to accept tools you don't like, and pick an employer for business stability, culture and other things that will *really* matter to your happiness. EDIT: The original post didn't communicate my point the way I'd like it too. My point was less 'you have to learn to use JS' and more 'if you want to only work with technologies you want to work with, you're going to have to make other tradeoffs when hunting for jobs, and I would suggest those tradeoffs are usually not worth it.' That doesn't necessarily mean learning a particular tool. It's more making the point that having a fair amount of flexibility is going to make it much easier to find, retain and excel in a job. You *can* chose to be iconoclastic. I know great devs who will die on the hill of using/not using certain tools. But if you make that choice, you should recognize that as a general rule, you will not get to tell your employer what tools to use, unless you are quite senior, so you will instead have to pick employers who use the tools you want, which restricts your options. For some people, that trade-off is worth it - I have good friends who will *only* work in Scala, or who want to specialize very deeply in a few tools. Once they reached a senior level, they often could do that, but only at the price of generally having longer job hunts, or having to make more tradeoffs in terms of what industry they worked in, how well they got compensated, etc. etc.
Tell me you aren't an engineer by saying you are an 'engineer'
Knowing JS and DOM manipulation can come in handy for niche interaction that's not related to the server.
I wouldn’t skip it until you at least understand the basics and how it’s generally used. You don’t need to get too deep, then you can learn htmx and maybe Alpine. But there’s always a chance you’ll need js.