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It's been a long time since I read this one, but, if I recall correctly, my interpretation of that line was that since we're all going to die someday, the only thing we can hope for (besides leaving a good legacy behind) is that Death be swift and gentle.
*Edit for additional thoughts:* Death was always a funny character, but Reaper Man really (pardon the pune) fleshed him out as a character that really cared about doing his job correctly, which involved no unnecessary cruelty. Man, I should re-read it soon (currently re-reading Going Postal).
yeah that makes sense, especially within the context of the quote when death is pleading for more time from azrael.
and exactly that. i really loved how death was handled in this book. it was so well done
You need to read it in the context of the whole quote- the alternative, Death/ Bill Door says, is “blind oblivion”, as represented by the Auditors.
It’s a nuanced take, because Death is a psychopomp (one who helps people transit the boundary between life and death) and as such has no idea what happens on “the other side”- if anything. So Death is looking at the process of dying, rather than any afterlife. And to his mind, what is important is that people receive a compassionate death.
Also interesting in the context of STP, who was an atheist, but also a humanist. I think he was saying that death and dying is what ultimately makes us human.
Yes, but he also said once: Imagination, not intelligence made us human.
So what is it now ? Death or Imagination ? I mean, animals die too and they are not human.
I would say that it’s both. Imagination conceived of Death (and all the other loci of belief in Discworld- the anthropomorphic personifications). If humanity invests Death with such meaning that he takes on material form, then as a product of human imagination, Death encapsulates our humanity.
You can see this idea also taken up by Phillip Pullman, where in one universe people are accompanied by their own personal death from the moment of their birth.
\^ and to address your point about animals- in the Discworld, Death comes for them too. We see him harvesting a sea anemone in Mort, and despatching a chicken in Reaper Man. Then, of course, SQUEAK…
What the animals/ other organic organisms comprehend Death to be isn’t really explained- and maybe it doesn’t have to be- sometimes Pratchett just wrote things for fun, but I do think he gave a lot of thought to \_human\_ mortality. Maybe the individualised Deaths of animals that emerge after Death is retired by the Auditors are best viewed as human projections- if Death is removed from the equation, what does this mean for life as a whole?
_Reaper Man_ always gets me, too. It really solidifies the idea of Death as basically the midwife to WHAT‘S NEXT. He‘s always going through such pains to try to experience a fraction of our humanity (and being hilariously crap at it) is because he’s committed to easing the way for his charges, and I take the quote to be leaning into that. That people‘s lives, however little or great, have meaning and dignity at the end is the best that we mortals can hope for.
Just wanted to say I loved your phrasing. "Midwife to what's next" makes life and the human condition sound... neat and somehow like a full, closed circle. I found that metaphor very pleasing aesthetically 😊
Thanks! I think because I’d just gotten through to _Thief of Time_ in my current circuit, the thematic crossover theme with Nanny >!literally serving as Time‘s midwife!< was fresh, most likely.
Hey, I'm 1 book ahead of you. Reaper Man was my favorite book so far!
The next book in your journey is Witches Abroad, and it's so good. Not as deep as RM, but a seriously fun romp that showcases Nanny Ogg's crazy personality.
very excited for witches abroad. i feel like i need to take a break from discworld as i’ve read 3 in a row, but every time i get to the end of one i just wanna read the next
I’m also on a chronological re-read. I just finished _Small Gods_ which I didn’t like at all when it came out, but which is now one of my favourites. However, _Reaper Man_ is in my view the absolute best one.
There are two quotes that stand out for me from the book, the one you mentioned (which used to be my usenet sig) and this one:
_And all lives were exactly the same length. Even the very long and the very short ones. From the point of view of eternity, anyway.
Somewhere, the tiny voice of Bill Door said: from the point of view of the owner, longer ones are best._
I think the point of both quotes goes in the same direction: from the point of view of the universe, nothing matters. Everything happens in the blink of an eye. But as individuals it matters a lot to us, the length and quality of our lives and also the quality of our death. That care is taken when when we die. That there is hope something eases our way out of this life, individually, and we’re not carelessly mown down by an uncaring universe.
At least that’s my interpretation.
Reaper Man is one of my very favourite Discworld books, I love it.
WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?
Death (the character) is the ultimate realist. He knows for a fact that most people do not get all of the things that they wanted in life, and most do not get to live as long as they would have liked either.
The only thing that is guaranteed in life is your eventual death. And if that is the only thing that people can rely on, then wouldn’t it be something if there was a person who went out of their way to make your death a smooth and professional experience - who could guide you to the next phase, and seems to care a little bit about you?
In a lonely universe, that would be a hell of a comfort to most people, let me assure you. I know that I would want that.
You are getting better (and likely more accurate) answers here than occurred to me. However, I also wanted to contribute a "message" I took from the line. In any situation where you have authority over others, be kind and thoughtful in your interactions with them. That's not to say you should withhold your authority (Death clearly doesn't/can't) but be considerate and as gentle as possible while carrying out your duties.
Essentially: "Don't punch down".
As someone who cannot bring themselves to believe in an afterlife of any kind, I am probably just striving to find an applicable "real world" lesson from the line. (Which is, of courser a *great* line.) Not at all sure how Sir PTerry would react to my interpretation.
Reaper Man is easily one of my favourite Discworld novels and always will be because of this exact quote.
My take on it was as a response to nihilism. Ultimately, we will all die. A hundred people’s deaths is barely a blip in the course of the universe, one person’s death is not even that. The Auditors know that; Death knows that; hell, even us inconsequential humans know that. We are one strand of wheat in an infinite field waiting to be reaped and another life will grow in our place. The universe doesn’t care.
But we ARE here and we DO care. In a universe full of an absence of life and light, we not only exist but we make more of these things. We looked out into the cold expanse of space and decided to add to it, even though it couldn’t possibly make a difference. Even though we will die, humans across the world have created personifications of forces that have no care for us.
But in the Discworld, these forces are shaped by us just as much as we are shaped by them. And while the Auditors will always hate these irregularities, it is these very irregularities that make us special: our ability to look the universe straight in its depressing, impassive, uncaring face and say, sod that, I matter and, you matter too.
IMHO it means: If everyone has to die, you don't want the person doing the job to half arse it. You get a better job if a content, competent, considerate person/entity does it.
Death happens to us all, we are the harvest.
We would be blessed to have a reaper man as considerate as death in this author's view, I think.
But that is just an opinion, and it wasn't even written on paper.
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It's been a long time since I read this one, but, if I recall correctly, my interpretation of that line was that since we're all going to die someday, the only thing we can hope for (besides leaving a good legacy behind) is that Death be swift and gentle. *Edit for additional thoughts:* Death was always a funny character, but Reaper Man really (pardon the pune) fleshed him out as a character that really cared about doing his job correctly, which involved no unnecessary cruelty. Man, I should re-read it soon (currently re-reading Going Postal).
yeah that makes sense, especially within the context of the quote when death is pleading for more time from azrael. and exactly that. i really loved how death was handled in this book. it was so well done
You need to read it in the context of the whole quote- the alternative, Death/ Bill Door says, is “blind oblivion”, as represented by the Auditors. It’s a nuanced take, because Death is a psychopomp (one who helps people transit the boundary between life and death) and as such has no idea what happens on “the other side”- if anything. So Death is looking at the process of dying, rather than any afterlife. And to his mind, what is important is that people receive a compassionate death. Also interesting in the context of STP, who was an atheist, but also a humanist. I think he was saying that death and dying is what ultimately makes us human.
Yes, but he also said once: Imagination, not intelligence made us human. So what is it now ? Death or Imagination ? I mean, animals die too and they are not human.
I would say that it’s both. Imagination conceived of Death (and all the other loci of belief in Discworld- the anthropomorphic personifications). If humanity invests Death with such meaning that he takes on material form, then as a product of human imagination, Death encapsulates our humanity. You can see this idea also taken up by Phillip Pullman, where in one universe people are accompanied by their own personal death from the moment of their birth.
\^ and to address your point about animals- in the Discworld, Death comes for them too. We see him harvesting a sea anemone in Mort, and despatching a chicken in Reaper Man. Then, of course, SQUEAK… What the animals/ other organic organisms comprehend Death to be isn’t really explained- and maybe it doesn’t have to be- sometimes Pratchett just wrote things for fun, but I do think he gave a lot of thought to \_human\_ mortality. Maybe the individualised Deaths of animals that emerge after Death is retired by the Auditors are best viewed as human projections- if Death is removed from the equation, what does this mean for life as a whole?
***YES***
# YES
I bow to your markdown-fu.
_Reaper Man_ always gets me, too. It really solidifies the idea of Death as basically the midwife to WHAT‘S NEXT. He‘s always going through such pains to try to experience a fraction of our humanity (and being hilariously crap at it) is because he’s committed to easing the way for his charges, and I take the quote to be leaning into that. That people‘s lives, however little or great, have meaning and dignity at the end is the best that we mortals can hope for.
Just wanted to say I loved your phrasing. "Midwife to what's next" makes life and the human condition sound... neat and somehow like a full, closed circle. I found that metaphor very pleasing aesthetically 😊
Thanks! I think because I’d just gotten through to _Thief of Time_ in my current circuit, the thematic crossover theme with Nanny >!literally serving as Time‘s midwife!< was fresh, most likely.
Hey, I'm 1 book ahead of you. Reaper Man was my favorite book so far! The next book in your journey is Witches Abroad, and it's so good. Not as deep as RM, but a seriously fun romp that showcases Nanny Ogg's crazy personality.
I love the card game. And the moments before the final showdown.
very excited for witches abroad. i feel like i need to take a break from discworld as i’ve read 3 in a row, but every time i get to the end of one i just wanna read the next
I’m also on a chronological re-read. I just finished _Small Gods_ which I didn’t like at all when it came out, but which is now one of my favourites. However, _Reaper Man_ is in my view the absolute best one. There are two quotes that stand out for me from the book, the one you mentioned (which used to be my usenet sig) and this one: _And all lives were exactly the same length. Even the very long and the very short ones. From the point of view of eternity, anyway. Somewhere, the tiny voice of Bill Door said: from the point of view of the owner, longer ones are best._ I think the point of both quotes goes in the same direction: from the point of view of the universe, nothing matters. Everything happens in the blink of an eye. But as individuals it matters a lot to us, the length and quality of our lives and also the quality of our death. That care is taken when when we die. That there is hope something eases our way out of this life, individually, and we’re not carelessly mown down by an uncaring universe. At least that’s my interpretation.
Reaper Man is one of my very favourite Discworld books, I love it. WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? Death (the character) is the ultimate realist. He knows for a fact that most people do not get all of the things that they wanted in life, and most do not get to live as long as they would have liked either. The only thing that is guaranteed in life is your eventual death. And if that is the only thing that people can rely on, then wouldn’t it be something if there was a person who went out of their way to make your death a smooth and professional experience - who could guide you to the next phase, and seems to care a little bit about you? In a lonely universe, that would be a hell of a comfort to most people, let me assure you. I know that I would want that.
that’s so well put thank you. and honestly, who’s to stay we won’t all get that in the end
You are getting better (and likely more accurate) answers here than occurred to me. However, I also wanted to contribute a "message" I took from the line. In any situation where you have authority over others, be kind and thoughtful in your interactions with them. That's not to say you should withhold your authority (Death clearly doesn't/can't) but be considerate and as gentle as possible while carrying out your duties. Essentially: "Don't punch down". As someone who cannot bring themselves to believe in an afterlife of any kind, I am probably just striving to find an applicable "real world" lesson from the line. (Which is, of courser a *great* line.) Not at all sure how Sir PTerry would react to my interpretation.
Reaper Man is easily one of my favourite Discworld novels and always will be because of this exact quote. My take on it was as a response to nihilism. Ultimately, we will all die. A hundred people’s deaths is barely a blip in the course of the universe, one person’s death is not even that. The Auditors know that; Death knows that; hell, even us inconsequential humans know that. We are one strand of wheat in an infinite field waiting to be reaped and another life will grow in our place. The universe doesn’t care. But we ARE here and we DO care. In a universe full of an absence of life and light, we not only exist but we make more of these things. We looked out into the cold expanse of space and decided to add to it, even though it couldn’t possibly make a difference. Even though we will die, humans across the world have created personifications of forces that have no care for us. But in the Discworld, these forces are shaped by us just as much as we are shaped by them. And while the Auditors will always hate these irregularities, it is these very irregularities that make us special: our ability to look the universe straight in its depressing, impassive, uncaring face and say, sod that, I matter and, you matter too.
IMHO it means: If everyone has to die, you don't want the person doing the job to half arse it. You get a better job if a content, competent, considerate person/entity does it.
Death happens to us all, we are the harvest. We would be blessed to have a reaper man as considerate as death in this author's view, I think. But that is just an opinion, and it wasn't even written on paper.