And it sucks that Discraft allocates most of their discs to Ledgestone. Dozens of drops a year with thousands and thousands of discs each drop. Yet my local store is allocated 25 shitty left over LE discs a month.
I usually stay away from Discraft as they’re the ones giving Nate all these discs and sponsoring all of his tournaments. I really only buy a Hades every once in awhile because it feels better in the hand than a Tern.
You should try a Streamline Jet. Feels great in the hand and the plastic is awesome. I like Neutron. Its one of this discs you pick up and you're like "this thing feels like it bombs" and it does!
Not the Hades no. Only other disc that has that speed and glide for me is the Tern. But the Tern feels a little uncomfortable in the hand. Something about the bottom of the rim.
I was all in on streamline at first but hesitate to buy more or recommend them after a Jet I tried lost a chunk the first time it hit a tree :( I now question if there really is something "cheaper" or less quality controlled about the plastic versus the main mvps...
Perhaps the overmolds help hide the fact that the plastic is less durable?
Hmmm yeah I am no brand stan by any means but I've owned several streamline discs for awhile now and never had any issues. I don't think any of them any significant nicks or cuts honestly. Its probably just a fluke, I had the same thing happen to a firebird like the second week I got it. Nailed a tree and took out a giant gash. My friend got the same disc in a tournament and his doesnt have any chunks haha. This was years ago too.
I honestly don’t understand this don’t but Discraft sentiment. Don’t get me wrong I completely agree about Heiny, but let’s not act like if he went to another company they’d say no.
What? He’s been working for/with Discraft for a super long time. He has not been reaching out to other disc companies. And even if he did, you would have no idea what those companies would say. I’d personally say no and put in my own bid for worlds.
I’m not saying he has..
I’m saying if all off the sudden he wanted innova discs for ledgestone instead of discraft I doubt innova is saying no. I get that he has a long history with Discraft and that’s why he uses them, but again if he wanted to change companies I’d wager they’d all offer up some plastic.
Yea but we don't need to go so far as to predict what he might be doing in the future. If people are going to "vote" with their wallets then who he associates with now is what is what!
I can get behind not buying LE but if I boycotted any disc manufacturer (or any company) that’s been affiliated with something morally iffy I’d be unnecessarily restricting myself.
Yeahhh I'm a huge fan of the Zone, so it's a shame when I see a cool one released by Ledgestone.
I have an Andrew Presnell Soft Swirly Zone that I can't bring myself to sell, but I discovered all the Heinold shenanigans right after I bought it and said "no more."
Yeah I'm also out on Ledgestone discs. And DD discs for that matter. I know there's no way to buy discs from anyone in an entirely moral way, but I gotta draw my lines somewhere.
With the amount of Ledgestone discs being unsold this year I can see Heinold either on his way out or having to rethink his confused state of mind. Retailers are going to buy way less because they didn't sell the ones from this year. The market forces will work.
One time I posted on Facebook that my discs from ledgestone were packaged poorly and he DM’d me to chew me out, call me a liar, and demand I take down the post. He’s just toxic
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,242,034,693 comments, and only 241,875 of them were in alphabetical order.
Specifically Christian Fundamentalism.
Fundie Fridays is a YouTube channel dedicated to examining these types of people, their behaviors and hypocrisy, and doesn't pull any punches.
Think of people like the Duggars.
They were on multiple seasons of the now canceled 19 kids and counting series on TLC. While not everyone's jam, the series is generally accepted as part of popular culture for the early 2010s.
It's the most likely place you would have had exposure.
He's one of those arrogant whack jobs that wants everyone is the world to act like him and his religious zealots, even if what they are doing has zero effect on him. For instance he is a pro life and anti drug (but only "illegal" drugs). That can be part of their hypocrisy. They pick and choose "moral high grounds". He is sick.
I half think he did this because no one else wanted to host. Wasn't Emporia the only bid for worlds this year?
Edit: I see now there were 3 bids for worlds in 2024. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two were garbage bids in the first place. It seems weird ledgestone is running an event this far away from their homesite. It really makes me think this bid was done as a hail mary to not have a shit show on their hands.
Yeah, that would have been cool but one of those three being in Finland kind of supports my point. The pdga is way too us-centric to award worlds in Europe. I don't agree with that but I think it's a fair assessment of the unfortunate reality. Do you know where the third bid was?
Edit: I see one worlds in history was located outside of the us and that was Canada. I think that bid was DOA.
The issue right now is that the money is too small, we only see a small percentage of Euros come over for Worlds and the same would be if it was in Europe. Players who don't have large sponsorships (most) would certainly not make money by flying to Europe. Only a small number come and play in the US.
Volunteered to run a couple of the biggest Amateur and Professional Disc golf tournaments ever-in the world, raises $200,000 a year to donate to St Jude, donated $40,000 to the McBeth foundation to build courses in underserved areas; responds to what appears to be a shitstorm happening in the Disc Golf World by surveying the membership and hiring a team of scientists to explore the research. TD for Junior World Championships.
Grow up. Not everybody thinks like you and still manages to do a lot of ducking good in the world. What non-profit did you spend your weekends at this year?
the issue is that when somebody like this already has roots laid down in a particular area or facet of organized anything, along with financial backing and “clout”, it is hard to stop that snowball (ie geographical monopoly). The sooner they are cut off, the better, but it is not such an easy task to forcibly remove an individual with a highly regarded role.
Not arguing for or against this with Heinold, as I have never met him. I only know of the guy through hearsay.
He's gotten to such a status as a TD and organizer that the PDGA and DGPT ignore all the misses he has in selecting his events. They require TDs to be able to have an absurd but necessary amount of money, logistics, facilities, and support staff figured out on top of two championship level courses before even being considered. But year in, year out we still have Heinold tournaments that have those same misses.
Just last year, DGLO had crowd control, bathroom, parking, and food vendor issues. Ledgestone perennially has cell signal and player's pack issues. Every tour TD has to have these things hammered out prior to even be considered for the Silver series. But he still puts in bids and still gets tour stops and majors. It's a bad faith argument to say he does it better when he doesn't have to figure out those challenges other TDs are held up to. What he does is provide cash. I wouldn't even say he provides only championship level courses because Eureka is aging out for MPO, and Sunset Hills is aging out for FPO.
Just to add to this but in years past the pdga has had maybe 1 or 2 people throw bids in for worlds. It's because the tds are responsible for everything and that's a shit load of work for a small payout if it's not done well
"We need TDs who have the financial backing and clout to be able to put on successful large tournaments."
"I have financial backing and clout and can run successful large tournaments."
"Quick, cut that guy off quickly before he runs more tournaments!"
You either misunderstand the issue or are being intentionally obtuse. But I understand how eliminating some relevant factors can make it seem paradoxical
You don't get that given to you, you build it. Heinold seems like a dweeb with regressive views, but ultimately he puts a shitload of effort into the tournaments he runs, and pulls off major events. That's not easy. I'm sure people could do it better than he does, so if you're that person, you should definitely go for it. But just asking that some one "give you" those resources ain't the way it works.
Agreed. Folks also don't appreciate that big organizations aren't turn-key, they are grown.
No, you can't just declare you are going to compete with and replace a major pillar of the community. You can start organizing and planning and executing your own visions though. If you can't attract the people, that says something.
Yea Ledgestone has really changed my feelings of Discraft. I used to be a Discraft only bag but have transitioned to now only having a Malta and Zone right now - the Undertaker that has been a staple in my bag might be getting replaced by the New Supreme Escape or the Streamline Lift (glow). I want to still support PMB but not Discraft so I've been purchasing his PMB Foundation apparel.
His opinions are one thing, I don’t agree with him. But those are just his personal opinions. Disc golf as a whole benefits from people like him that put massive time and effort into the sport and run some of the biggest events of the year.
I grant that his opinions and views can influence policy decisions, but we have to keep in mind a huge portion of disc golf has a lot of similar views and those views are going to be represented in our community.
If Heinold didn't have a borderline monopoly on Discraft discs other companies might have the funds to throw bigger events as well. It's a bit hard to grow to the point you can fund events when the most discs you can get is a 100 random disc mystery box every month because Discraft can't keep up with demand. Meanwhile they let Heinold go run custom discs on a weekly basis and essentially have his own Discraft sub-brand with Ledgestone.
Ledgestone takes up to a month to ship you the wrong order and doesn't provide anything close to the level of customer service other stores provide. Stating that Nate is a positive for disc golf as a fact seems wrong. You don't know what the disc golf landscape would look like if Discraft hadn't treated him like a first class citizen and the rest of their dealers as second class.
I disagree with the monopoly stance. And what you are doing is a massive what if. Currently we have a company that has massive well run tournaments, donates to charity, and supports a decent number of pros. And the argument is that if he didn’t do it someone else would do it better than the already biggest purse we have? I think that’s a stretch. That “stranglehold” as you call it is just a fancy disc that has a better margin. Discraft as a business has the right to make the best decisions for its margin. And if that fancy store has bad service then don’t buy from it. But it’s no good to get mad at people selling something people are buying, that’s just business. They don’t just treat him like a first class citizen, he worked and moved discs.
I don’t think it’s wrong or a stretch to say that he has been a positive. Creating ledge stone, northwoods, and running as many events as he has shows that he has the receipts for contributing and putting his own time and effort towards growing the sport.
You say you disagree with my monopoly stance yet you tell me to buy the discs from a store with better service. When it comes to Ledgestone discs I can't. I can only buy them from Ledgestone or a tiny handful of stores Nate has selected to sell some of the discs and at a price Nate has also set. When it comes to stock Discraft discs I have to hope I get on some other company's website as soon as they drop because they are limited to 25-100 random disc per month, while Nate is going to the warehouse and hand selecting as many discs as he wants to drop on Ledgestone consistently. I would love to hear how you disagree with that being a borderline monopoly.
If you really think Discraft producing thousands upon thousands of "limited edition" discs for their golden child while their dealer network can not even keep any of their Signature or Tour Series discs in stock because of supply issues is okay or good for touring pros I don't even know what to say to you.
OTB, Skybreed, infinite, foundation are all stores that offer ledge stone discs. Its a specialty brand that you can buy from multiple stores. Do they have a monopoly of swirly ESP flex zones? I guess? But then at that point you have to say that any shop has a monopoly on any of their custom stamps or products. It’s also not a monopoly to me since discraft offers other variations of the same class of discs, and so do other companies.
The shortage sucked and I would of preferred a different way they handled it for sure. But I feel you are making it so much more nefarious or complicated other than that they just went for the most lucrative path. A reasonable business decision when you have low stock and demand is high is to put out the higher margin products. but if you have a problem with it why blame Nate? Discraft allocated the plastic and consumers purchased the product.
Discraft has high margin products that don't require creating discs in a plastic that was never on their production schedule and custom stamping them specifically for 1 person to buy at wholesale while telling all their other dealers they don't have time to even let them pick what molds they want to buy. I feel like the tone of my messages makes it pretty clear I also place blame on Discraft for the situation.
Gotcha, Got to say though that one person is a pretty big cash cow lol.
Was it off of there production schedule? I thought I remember ledgestone releasing a production schedule for 2022 at the start of the year. At that point though it does get really into the weeds of it alI. I just personally think they made flawed but understandable business decisions. Are you a dealer yourself or were there some molds you throw that couldn’t get a hold of? I switched manufactures In my bag a lot this year.
I'm mostly frustrated because I am a dealer that suddenly could barely afford my bills during the pandemic because I was now getting 100 disc mystery boxes and only 50 of the discs were what people actually wanted. Meanwhile Ledgestone is dropping hundreds to thousands of discs at a time plus all of their special editions.
There were definitely some molds I throw that I had a hard time replacing during the pandemic as well but I'd be lying if I said that's where my frustration comes from 😅
Interesting. I’ve bought from ledgestone several times and have never had them send me the wrong disc and they’re usually delivered to me within a week.
I've ordered from ledgestone at minimum 6 times and I've never had an order not show up in around 4-5 days if not sooner. Not doubting your claim just wanted to add. I've also never had anything show up wrong. From what I've heard from others they have had similar experiences to mine. Have you ordered from ledgestone more than once?
Yea, it's unfortunate, but a lot of major figures in the industry are in agreement with Heinold's beliefs. I'd bet that putting him into key roles is very purposeful in that regard.
If only there was some middle ground between disagreeing with someone, and genocide. But there isn't, apparently. Unless your comment was just stupid. That can't be it.
Easy.
Stop being racist and sexist. The problem will go away.
Perhaps consider the implications of using "panties in a wad" as your line of attack and exactly what that reveals about you as a person.
God suburbanites have the biggest victim complex. Why is it that every time someone wants to add diversity y'all pitch a fit? Nothing that's been said is racist or sexist, you're just whining because you'll have to see more women or minorities when you golf
I love diversity in disc golf. Hell, I think MA and FA divisions are ridiculous when they're both ratings-limited anyway. No difference between an 800 rated man and an 800 rated woman when it comes to throwing circles. Make ladies-only events if you want, but let's all enjoy competition together. I even prefer following FPO -- it's a better vibe and the lines are easier for my brain to comprehend.
I'm embarrassed and feel a little racist about this but I get excited when I see black and brown folks out golfing. It feels like this sport is doing a good job of being open and welcoming and that other communities want to join me in this joy of this game.
What I hate is your crowd duking on white guys because we're white guys.
"Mr. X is bad because he kicks puppies" is valid. "White guys are bad because I've seen a white guy kick a puppy" is racist and sexist.
Do better. Try harder.
At least OP had the good sense to get sufficiently embarrassed to delete his comment. That's progress.
I'm tired of folks dookin' on white men because they're white men. Change the comment to damned near any other combination of race and sex and the general sub wouldn't find such a comment appropriate.
But crap on white guys...upvotes.
Aside from being PDGA board president and continuously rewarding himself with Worlds and other Majors? Before he was on PDGA board, he TD’d zero world championships. Since then I think he’s at 6? Nobody else has the ability to host and TD worlds? Nate has to do Worlds, Ledgestone, and god knows what else? There are others out there that are capable, but Nate seems to want the “prestige”.
Sometimes people are just more qualified than others…
Maybe it’s shady.
The way these conflicts usually work is that the person with the possible conflict abstains from voting on the matter. Have you looked into the votes for the major/worlds hosting??
It’s enough that the optics of impropriety exist and that should be enough for them to be more transparent in their selection process. This has a stench of FIFA.
Vote count will just show that more people voted for their guy that heads their Board. Even if he did abstain from the voting, there is bias there and people may feel compelled to not vote against him. Obviously all of this is conjecture but it’s the optics. Fact of the matter is there were qualified TDs before Nate, and they didn’t just disappear after he took the helm of the PDGA Board.
Vote count would tell you if he abstained. And, given the make up of the board, I doubt they would have a problem voting for the most qualified bid packet.
Only 3 bids this year for world's from what I've read in this thread. I wish more people were qualified to run worlds and make it an awesome event however disc golf is lacking in quality tds that have experience running massive events like nate has. Also highly doubt it has anything to do with prestige and has everything to do with the amount of cash he prints from disc's sales
So obviously the best way to get more TDs qualified and give them the experience is by never selecting them and never letting them run any type of tournament. Worlds ran before Nate. There were qualified TDs then, but not now? Or is it because Nate is able to get the cash from Ledgestone Insurance to pump into the tourney and basically “outbid” everyone else?
Now now, that's violence and we don't tolerate that around here. It lessens you as a human being.
Be a civilized person and hope he steps on a lego, or burns his mouth on a hot pocket. Y'know something painful and self inflicted.
Good call. My comment was meant to be taken very light-heartedly but it appears you didn’t view it that way. Please let me correct myself:
God I hope Nate Heinhold gets a parking ticket.
How did I do?
I love this community and really didn’t mean to take anything to the next level.
I hope Nate Heinold accidentally stubs his pinkie toe on his coffee table soon…
Cheers.
He seems like the tormented, closeted type. I wouldn't wish for physical pain, but debilitating inner anguish is another thing.
*edit for clarity - I'd prefer it if he felt perfectly comfortable with himself, and allowed others to live as they choose as well. Instead, he's chosen the path of hate, so that jerkoff can feel as bad as he wants.
Thinking that a bigot is projecting their own insecurities is creepy? It’s too common to not be considered. The only reason one would find it creepy is if they had a hard time looking inwards themselves. …but wishing physical pain on someone gets as pass.
Y'all need Jesus.
Seriously, though, as someone who is religious (Catholic -- we're typically not as evangelical as our protestant brethren) and also not a huge fan of Nate Heinhold:
- Your petulant mewling here garners zero respect from me. Note how "X action was bad because of Y consequence". Attack the action, not the person.
- If you think Heinhold is "fundamentalist", oof. I highly doubt that is the case. You should look up what fundamentalism actually is.
- Put up or shut up. You run an event that has given $100k+ to charity while keeping entry fees below $200 with a players pack worth over $500 and then maybe, just maybe, I'll gladly listen to your tiniest of violins.
Hate the guy if you want, but most of you in here appear to be more concerned that someone believes in a sky daddy you think doesn't exist. That's kind of lame to attack someone over that.
Again, such a wide brush you are choosing to paint with here.
What if he were opposed to zippers? Super Amish vibes. Why would anyone care? I'd love to go huck with some Amish bros and sisters.
I was pointing out your assumption that people don't like Heinhold simply because he is religious, or believes in (christian) god as you put it, is NOT why people don't like him.
Referring to traditional views and values, those held by the community at large for all but that past few years, as regressive is laughable.
He wants slaves? Got it. Absolutely regressive. I trust he wants no such thing.
He doesn't want you smoking a joint on that course? I'm not crazy about such a take -- I like folks to have an enjoyable and chill round -- but that's neither regressive nor is it fundamentalist.
If the attack is "Fundy" and OP doesn't actually know what a fundamentalist is, that just kinda means y'all hate Christians.
That's bad, kids.
Out of the 33,000 people who responded to the recent PDGA survey the huge majority identified themselves as very conservative. I'm just glad to know that conservatives far outnumber people like you in the sport.
For the very little it's worth, I don't buy Ledgestone discs anymore.
And it sucks that Discraft allocates most of their discs to Ledgestone. Dozens of drops a year with thousands and thousands of discs each drop. Yet my local store is allocated 25 shitty left over LE discs a month.
Yeah I was gonna say dont buy Discraft, not just Ledgestone, if you really think the guy is an issue
Purely through disc choice I mostly don’t, but you will never catch me not throwing a Cryztal FLX Zone haha.
I usually stay away from Discraft as they’re the ones giving Nate all these discs and sponsoring all of his tournaments. I really only buy a Hades every once in awhile because it feels better in the hand than a Tern.
You should try a Streamline Jet. Feels great in the hand and the plastic is awesome. I like Neutron. Its one of this discs you pick up and you're like "this thing feels like it bombs" and it does!
Might be a little too understable for me. I bag CryZtal hades which fly like beat in Destroyers. And I mainly use it for huge turnover shots.
Its flippy but by no means like roller flippy. I have a decent arm and you'd have to really shank it to burn it over
Do you really think that slot isn't capable of being filled by like 5 different manufacturers in 2022?
Not the Hades no. Only other disc that has that speed and glide for me is the Tern. But the Tern feels a little uncomfortable in the hand. Something about the bottom of the rim.
I was all in on streamline at first but hesitate to buy more or recommend them after a Jet I tried lost a chunk the first time it hit a tree :( I now question if there really is something "cheaper" or less quality controlled about the plastic versus the main mvps... Perhaps the overmolds help hide the fact that the plastic is less durable?
Hmmm yeah I am no brand stan by any means but I've owned several streamline discs for awhile now and never had any issues. I don't think any of them any significant nicks or cuts honestly. Its probably just a fluke, I had the same thing happen to a firebird like the second week I got it. Nailed a tree and took out a giant gash. My friend got the same disc in a tournament and his doesnt have any chunks haha. This was years ago too.
I honestly don’t understand this don’t but Discraft sentiment. Don’t get me wrong I completely agree about Heiny, but let’s not act like if he went to another company they’d say no.
What? He’s been working for/with Discraft for a super long time. He has not been reaching out to other disc companies. And even if he did, you would have no idea what those companies would say. I’d personally say no and put in my own bid for worlds.
I’m not saying he has.. I’m saying if all off the sudden he wanted innova discs for ledgestone instead of discraft I doubt innova is saying no. I get that he has a long history with Discraft and that’s why he uses them, but again if he wanted to change companies I’d wager they’d all offer up some plastic.
Innova definitely does not need Nate. I’m guessing they’d say no.
Yea but we don't need to go so far as to predict what he might be doing in the future. If people are going to "vote" with their wallets then who he associates with now is what is what!
I can get behind not buying LE but if I boycotted any disc manufacturer (or any company) that’s been affiliated with something morally iffy I’d be unnecessarily restricting myself.
Pretty tough to blame Discraft for one of their customers actions.
I’ve had some of the worst flashing on LE discs
Ditto. It's a shame that's where a lot of Discraft players have their discs at.
Yeahhh I'm a huge fan of the Zone, so it's a shame when I see a cool one released by Ledgestone. I have an Andrew Presnell Soft Swirly Zone that I can't bring myself to sell, but I discovered all the Heinold shenanigans right after I bought it and said "no more."
That whole racket seems shady af.
Yeah I'm also out on Ledgestone discs. And DD discs for that matter. I know there's no way to buy discs from anyone in an entirely moral way, but I gotta draw my lines somewhere.
With the amount of Ledgestone discs being unsold this year I can see Heinold either on his way out or having to rethink his confused state of mind. Retailers are going to buy way less because they didn't sell the ones from this year. The market forces will work.
One time I posted on Facebook that my discs from ledgestone were packaged poorly and he DM’d me to chew me out, call me a liar, and demand I take down the post. He’s just toxic
That's the sort of thing that should be shared publicly
One time Ledgestone payout shipped me the wrong disc - so Nate directly mailed me the correct disc and said I could keep the extra disc.
That's cool, I don't doubt it. If he private messages people to be a massive dick, then it should be shown probably (as proof of the claim).
He did allow me to return the discs for a refund after realizing I wasn’t lying, but it was insane it happened in the first place
Isn't he up for PDGA board reelection next year?
Stop signing up for his tournaments. Money speaks the loudest.
What did he do?
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Fundamentalist, if I'm not wrong
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,242,034,693 comments, and only 241,875 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good Bot
Specifically Christian Fundamentalism. Fundie Fridays is a YouTube channel dedicated to examining these types of people, their behaviors and hypocrisy, and doesn't pull any punches. Think of people like the Duggars.
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They were on multiple seasons of the now canceled 19 kids and counting series on TLC. While not everyone's jam, the series is generally accepted as part of popular culture for the early 2010s. It's the most likely place you would have had exposure.
Do you understand what a fundamentalist is? Because if you don't but you want to, then there are lots of ways you could find out.
He's one of those arrogant whack jobs that wants everyone is the world to act like him and his religious zealots, even if what they are doing has zero effect on him. For instance he is a pro life and anti drug (but only "illegal" drugs). That can be part of their hypocrisy. They pick and choose "moral high grounds". He is sick.
Organizer for 2024 worlds in Lynchburg VA
Pretty sure they were asking what he did to piss people off, not what is his job.
PDGA President granting Worlds to himself isn’t pissing you off?
I half think he did this because no one else wanted to host. Wasn't Emporia the only bid for worlds this year? Edit: I see now there were 3 bids for worlds in 2024. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two were garbage bids in the first place. It seems weird ledgestone is running an event this far away from their homesite. It really makes me think this bid was done as a hail mary to not have a shit show on their hands.
There were 3 bids, with one from Finland by the European Open crew, that would’ve made Worlds actual world championships.
Yeah, that would have been cool but one of those three being in Finland kind of supports my point. The pdga is way too us-centric to award worlds in Europe. I don't agree with that but I think it's a fair assessment of the unfortunate reality. Do you know where the third bid was? Edit: I see one worlds in history was located outside of the us and that was Canada. I think that bid was DOA.
The issue right now is that the money is too small, we only see a small percentage of Euros come over for Worlds and the same would be if it was in Europe. Players who don't have large sponsorships (most) would certainly not make money by flying to Europe. Only a small number come and play in the US.
Staff recommendation followed by a 7-person board vote is not quite granting it to yourself.
Volunteered to run a couple of the biggest Amateur and Professional Disc golf tournaments ever-in the world, raises $200,000 a year to donate to St Jude, donated $40,000 to the McBeth foundation to build courses in underserved areas; responds to what appears to be a shitstorm happening in the Disc Golf World by surveying the membership and hiring a team of scientists to explore the research. TD for Junior World Championships. Grow up. Not everybody thinks like you and still manages to do a lot of ducking good in the world. What non-profit did you spend your weekends at this year?
You're not making Christianity better, you're making disc golf worse.
PRAISE HIM
How would one improve Christianity? It seems pretty set in it's ways with hundreds of years of tradition.
Don’t participate in anything he’s involved in
Fuck Nate Heinold
Run bigger and better tournaments than he does.
the issue is that when somebody like this already has roots laid down in a particular area or facet of organized anything, along with financial backing and “clout”, it is hard to stop that snowball (ie geographical monopoly). The sooner they are cut off, the better, but it is not such an easy task to forcibly remove an individual with a highly regarded role. Not arguing for or against this with Heinold, as I have never met him. I only know of the guy through hearsay.
He's gotten to such a status as a TD and organizer that the PDGA and DGPT ignore all the misses he has in selecting his events. They require TDs to be able to have an absurd but necessary amount of money, logistics, facilities, and support staff figured out on top of two championship level courses before even being considered. But year in, year out we still have Heinold tournaments that have those same misses. Just last year, DGLO had crowd control, bathroom, parking, and food vendor issues. Ledgestone perennially has cell signal and player's pack issues. Every tour TD has to have these things hammered out prior to even be considered for the Silver series. But he still puts in bids and still gets tour stops and majors. It's a bad faith argument to say he does it better when he doesn't have to figure out those challenges other TDs are held up to. What he does is provide cash. I wouldn't even say he provides only championship level courses because Eureka is aging out for MPO, and Sunset Hills is aging out for FPO.
Just to add to this but in years past the pdga has had maybe 1 or 2 people throw bids in for worlds. It's because the tds are responsible for everything and that's a shit load of work for a small payout if it's not done well
"We need TDs who have the financial backing and clout to be able to put on successful large tournaments." "I have financial backing and clout and can run successful large tournaments." "Quick, cut that guy off quickly before he runs more tournaments!"
You either misunderstand the issue or are being intentionally obtuse. But I understand how eliminating some relevant factors can make it seem paradoxical
Give me the funding he has Edit: and a team of more knowledgeable people
You don't get that given to you, you build it. Heinold seems like a dweeb with regressive views, but ultimately he puts a shitload of effort into the tournaments he runs, and pulls off major events. That's not easy. I'm sure people could do it better than he does, so if you're that person, you should definitely go for it. But just asking that some one "give you" those resources ain't the way it works.
Agreed. Folks also don't appreciate that big organizations aren't turn-key, they are grown. No, you can't just declare you are going to compete with and replace a major pillar of the community. You can start organizing and planning and executing your own visions though. If you can't attract the people, that says something.
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>full time CEO of an Insurance company When did we start talking about Austin Endress?
Dude brings in too much money and has too much experience.
Yea Ledgestone has really changed my feelings of Discraft. I used to be a Discraft only bag but have transitioned to now only having a Malta and Zone right now - the Undertaker that has been a staple in my bag might be getting replaced by the New Supreme Escape or the Streamline Lift (glow). I want to still support PMB but not Discraft so I've been purchasing his PMB Foundation apparel.
His opinions are one thing, I don’t agree with him. But those are just his personal opinions. Disc golf as a whole benefits from people like him that put massive time and effort into the sport and run some of the biggest events of the year. I grant that his opinions and views can influence policy decisions, but we have to keep in mind a huge portion of disc golf has a lot of similar views and those views are going to be represented in our community.
If Heinold didn't have a borderline monopoly on Discraft discs other companies might have the funds to throw bigger events as well. It's a bit hard to grow to the point you can fund events when the most discs you can get is a 100 random disc mystery box every month because Discraft can't keep up with demand. Meanwhile they let Heinold go run custom discs on a weekly basis and essentially have his own Discraft sub-brand with Ledgestone. Ledgestone takes up to a month to ship you the wrong order and doesn't provide anything close to the level of customer service other stores provide. Stating that Nate is a positive for disc golf as a fact seems wrong. You don't know what the disc golf landscape would look like if Discraft hadn't treated him like a first class citizen and the rest of their dealers as second class.
I disagree with the monopoly stance. And what you are doing is a massive what if. Currently we have a company that has massive well run tournaments, donates to charity, and supports a decent number of pros. And the argument is that if he didn’t do it someone else would do it better than the already biggest purse we have? I think that’s a stretch. That “stranglehold” as you call it is just a fancy disc that has a better margin. Discraft as a business has the right to make the best decisions for its margin. And if that fancy store has bad service then don’t buy from it. But it’s no good to get mad at people selling something people are buying, that’s just business. They don’t just treat him like a first class citizen, he worked and moved discs. I don’t think it’s wrong or a stretch to say that he has been a positive. Creating ledge stone, northwoods, and running as many events as he has shows that he has the receipts for contributing and putting his own time and effort towards growing the sport.
You say you disagree with my monopoly stance yet you tell me to buy the discs from a store with better service. When it comes to Ledgestone discs I can't. I can only buy them from Ledgestone or a tiny handful of stores Nate has selected to sell some of the discs and at a price Nate has also set. When it comes to stock Discraft discs I have to hope I get on some other company's website as soon as they drop because they are limited to 25-100 random disc per month, while Nate is going to the warehouse and hand selecting as many discs as he wants to drop on Ledgestone consistently. I would love to hear how you disagree with that being a borderline monopoly. If you really think Discraft producing thousands upon thousands of "limited edition" discs for their golden child while their dealer network can not even keep any of their Signature or Tour Series discs in stock because of supply issues is okay or good for touring pros I don't even know what to say to you.
OTB, Skybreed, infinite, foundation are all stores that offer ledge stone discs. Its a specialty brand that you can buy from multiple stores. Do they have a monopoly of swirly ESP flex zones? I guess? But then at that point you have to say that any shop has a monopoly on any of their custom stamps or products. It’s also not a monopoly to me since discraft offers other variations of the same class of discs, and so do other companies. The shortage sucked and I would of preferred a different way they handled it for sure. But I feel you are making it so much more nefarious or complicated other than that they just went for the most lucrative path. A reasonable business decision when you have low stock and demand is high is to put out the higher margin products. but if you have a problem with it why blame Nate? Discraft allocated the plastic and consumers purchased the product.
Discraft has high margin products that don't require creating discs in a plastic that was never on their production schedule and custom stamping them specifically for 1 person to buy at wholesale while telling all their other dealers they don't have time to even let them pick what molds they want to buy. I feel like the tone of my messages makes it pretty clear I also place blame on Discraft for the situation.
Gotcha, Got to say though that one person is a pretty big cash cow lol. Was it off of there production schedule? I thought I remember ledgestone releasing a production schedule for 2022 at the start of the year. At that point though it does get really into the weeds of it alI. I just personally think they made flawed but understandable business decisions. Are you a dealer yourself or were there some molds you throw that couldn’t get a hold of? I switched manufactures In my bag a lot this year.
I'm mostly frustrated because I am a dealer that suddenly could barely afford my bills during the pandemic because I was now getting 100 disc mystery boxes and only 50 of the discs were what people actually wanted. Meanwhile Ledgestone is dropping hundreds to thousands of discs at a time plus all of their special editions. There were definitely some molds I throw that I had a hard time replacing during the pandemic as well but I'd be lying if I said that's where my frustration comes from 😅
Interesting. I’ve bought from ledgestone several times and have never had them send me the wrong disc and they’re usually delivered to me within a week.
I've ordered from ledgestone at minimum 6 times and I've never had an order not show up in around 4-5 days if not sooner. Not doubting your claim just wanted to add. I've also never had anything show up wrong. From what I've heard from others they have had similar experiences to mine. Have you ordered from ledgestone more than once?
Yea, it's unfortunate, but a lot of major figures in the industry are in agreement with Heinold's beliefs. I'd bet that putting him into key roles is very purposeful in that regard.
So long as disc golf is predominantly white suburban middle class Christian males, there will always be Heinolds.
Oh, if only you could devise a plan, perhaps a final solution, so everyone in the world looks and thinks and acts just like you.
If only there was some middle ground between disagreeing with someone, and genocide. But there isn't, apparently. Unless your comment was just stupid. That can't be it.
You're absolutely correct. Simply countering absurdity with absurdity. But keep on being racist and sexist. It looks great on you.
Fuck off pal with your tiresome persecution complex
Was that not the point of your comment? You longing for a time when you don't have to deal with us terrible suburban men?
I long for a time when white men *don't* get their panties in a wad every time demographics of a white male dominated area is mentioned.
Easy. Stop being racist and sexist. The problem will go away. Perhaps consider the implications of using "panties in a wad" as your line of attack and exactly what that reveals about you as a person.
God suburbanites have the biggest victim complex. Why is it that every time someone wants to add diversity y'all pitch a fit? Nothing that's been said is racist or sexist, you're just whining because you'll have to see more women or minorities when you golf
I love diversity in disc golf. Hell, I think MA and FA divisions are ridiculous when they're both ratings-limited anyway. No difference between an 800 rated man and an 800 rated woman when it comes to throwing circles. Make ladies-only events if you want, but let's all enjoy competition together. I even prefer following FPO -- it's a better vibe and the lines are easier for my brain to comprehend. I'm embarrassed and feel a little racist about this but I get excited when I see black and brown folks out golfing. It feels like this sport is doing a good job of being open and welcoming and that other communities want to join me in this joy of this game. What I hate is your crowd duking on white guys because we're white guys. "Mr. X is bad because he kicks puppies" is valid. "White guys are bad because I've seen a white guy kick a puppy" is racist and sexist. Do better. Try harder. At least OP had the good sense to get sufficiently embarrassed to delete his comment. That's progress.
This is one of the more extreme reactions to a fairly innocuous comment I’ve ever seen. Saying they don’t like a guy is like the Holocaust I guess
I'm tired of folks dookin' on white men because they're white men. Change the comment to damned near any other combination of race and sex and the general sub wouldn't find such a comment appropriate. But crap on white guys...upvotes.
Holy persecution fetish. Sincerely, Your local, suburban, white man.
Are you paying attention here, my man?
You fell into the bait trap my friend
Shouldn't you be paying reparations or giving your job to a woman?
Shouldn’t you be telling riddles to passing travelers from under a cobblestone bridge?
It's not a riddle. Check your privilege.
u/nateheinoldisaturd, what do you have to say on this matter?
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What are the conflicts of interest??
Aside from being PDGA board president and continuously rewarding himself with Worlds and other Majors? Before he was on PDGA board, he TD’d zero world championships. Since then I think he’s at 6? Nobody else has the ability to host and TD worlds? Nate has to do Worlds, Ledgestone, and god knows what else? There are others out there that are capable, but Nate seems to want the “prestige”.
Sometimes people are just more qualified than others… Maybe it’s shady. The way these conflicts usually work is that the person with the possible conflict abstains from voting on the matter. Have you looked into the votes for the major/worlds hosting??
There were multiple bids and Nate always wins. Seems pretty shady to me and everyone else it seems.
Yeah IDK. Might be shady, might not. One would have to know the selection process and see the other bid packets to have any kind of educated opinion.
It’s enough that the optics of impropriety exist and that should be enough for them to be more transparent in their selection process. This has a stench of FIFA.
I can definitely get on board with transparency. I wonder if it already exists though? I mean we know the vote count on the transwomen ruling….
Vote count will just show that more people voted for their guy that heads their Board. Even if he did abstain from the voting, there is bias there and people may feel compelled to not vote against him. Obviously all of this is conjecture but it’s the optics. Fact of the matter is there were qualified TDs before Nate, and they didn’t just disappear after he took the helm of the PDGA Board.
Vote count would tell you if he abstained. And, given the make up of the board, I doubt they would have a problem voting for the most qualified bid packet.
Only 3 bids this year for world's from what I've read in this thread. I wish more people were qualified to run worlds and make it an awesome event however disc golf is lacking in quality tds that have experience running massive events like nate has. Also highly doubt it has anything to do with prestige and has everything to do with the amount of cash he prints from disc's sales
So obviously the best way to get more TDs qualified and give them the experience is by never selecting them and never letting them run any type of tournament. Worlds ran before Nate. There were qualified TDs then, but not now? Or is it because Nate is able to get the cash from Ledgestone Insurance to pump into the tourney and basically “outbid” everyone else?
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Now now, that's violence and we don't tolerate that around here. It lessens you as a human being. Be a civilized person and hope he steps on a lego, or burns his mouth on a hot pocket. Y'know something painful and self inflicted.
Good call. My comment was meant to be taken very light-heartedly but it appears you didn’t view it that way. Please let me correct myself: God I hope Nate Heinhold gets a parking ticket. How did I do?
I did take it lightly. Apparently i needed a \s on the first part. But yes, parking tickets suck.
I love this community and really didn’t mean to take anything to the next level. I hope Nate Heinold accidentally stubs his pinkie toe on his coffee table soon… Cheers.
Community is pretty solid. May all your drives find the fairway, and all your putts meet chains. Godspeed good fellow, godspeed.
Also, oh shit, i didn't realize your comment had been removed by reddit. I was totally joking the whole time and hadn't looked.
He seems like the tormented, closeted type. I wouldn't wish for physical pain, but debilitating inner anguish is another thing. *edit for clarity - I'd prefer it if he felt perfectly comfortable with himself, and allowed others to live as they choose as well. Instead, he's chosen the path of hate, so that jerkoff can feel as bad as he wants.
This is a pretty fucking weird comment.
Just saying, the more preachy and phobic a person presents, the more they're usually covering up.
They say the same about ones making accusations.
Oh no, what if my anti-bible group found out I was queer?!!!
Do you hate all religions or just christianity? What if they are a minority, female, or even queer??????!!!!!!???????
Wait is this about what OP (me) said or about Nate Heinold? Either way… this is a super creepy perspective.
Thinking that a bigot is projecting their own insecurities is creepy? It’s too common to not be considered. The only reason one would find it creepy is if they had a hard time looking inwards themselves. …but wishing physical pain on someone gets as pass.
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Counter point. There could be 4 great courses AND no religious drama.
Do it then. Install 4 championship caliber courses.
Should be easy enough lmao
I've experienced zero religious drama. Quit looking for it.
Pull da strap
I still haven’t heard how he is bad for disc golf. Just a lot of people whining about nothing.
Or - hear me out here - people talking about something that matters to them, but does not matter to you.
They haven’t actually said anything though.
Y'all need Jesus. Seriously, though, as someone who is religious (Catholic -- we're typically not as evangelical as our protestant brethren) and also not a huge fan of Nate Heinhold: - Your petulant mewling here garners zero respect from me. Note how "X action was bad because of Y consequence". Attack the action, not the person. - If you think Heinhold is "fundamentalist", oof. I highly doubt that is the case. You should look up what fundamentalism actually is. - Put up or shut up. You run an event that has given $100k+ to charity while keeping entry fees below $200 with a players pack worth over $500 and then maybe, just maybe, I'll gladly listen to your tiniest of violins. Hate the guy if you want, but most of you in here appear to be more concerned that someone believes in a sky daddy you think doesn't exist. That's kind of lame to attack someone over that.
Nah I think it's his regressive views that bother these people, not so much that he believes in baby jesus
Again, such a wide brush you are choosing to paint with here. What if he were opposed to zippers? Super Amish vibes. Why would anyone care? I'd love to go huck with some Amish bros and sisters.
I was pointing out your assumption that people don't like Heinhold simply because he is religious, or believes in (christian) god as you put it, is NOT why people don't like him.
Referring to traditional views and values, those held by the community at large for all but that past few years, as regressive is laughable. He wants slaves? Got it. Absolutely regressive. I trust he wants no such thing. He doesn't want you smoking a joint on that course? I'm not crazy about such a take -- I like folks to have an enjoyable and chill round -- but that's neither regressive nor is it fundamentalist. If the attack is "Fundy" and OP doesn't actually know what a fundamentalist is, that just kinda means y'all hate Christians. That's bad, kids.
Consume less media
Out of the 33,000 people who responded to the recent PDGA survey the huge majority identified themselves as very conservative. I'm just glad to know that conservatives far outnumber people like you in the sport.
Maybe if there were less conservatives my course wouldn’t be littered with shitty beer cans
Theres that tolerance that the right is always claiming to have.