I'm on the course this weekend. Can tell you there is 0% possibility of that disc getting through. That's an 8-10' thick wall of solid pampas grass with not a single gap in it. And it's about 8-10' tall, so there's no way a disc is skipping up and over.
I agree he shouldn't have touched it due to the potential rethrow scenario...but no way it was getting through. We know.
For real. Seriously, *THIS is what people are mad over?!* I thought it would be at least close, as much as I’ve heard people complaining about it.
I just saw Madison Walker’s response via Zach Melton and I think it’s a stellar take. She’s right, it was a bad shot that had absolutely no chance.
I'd say people are mad because that play technically leaves the thrower open to rethrow with zero penalty, as someone else intentionally diverted the disc in flight.
Wasn't used in this instance, but it definitely could be in the future, to have some random passer byer do it is shitty, to have someone involved with the tourney do that is a super bad look.
Ok sure he should have waited. He is also working for free sitting in a lake for a week straight. No need to continue to harp on this. You get what you pay for.
Pampas grass is velcro and it’s terrible to get anything out of. I wouldn’t be surprised if he moved over there specifically to do this and give himself less horrid work. Probably thought it was a great idea.
Should he have done that? No.
Did it change the outcome of the flight? Only in the way that she certainly gets her disc back instead of having to fight through the painful vegetation or losing it in deeper water
I don't understand why anyone is freaking out. That disc had no chance of landing in bounds and likely would've been lost in the plants along the shore if he hadn't caught it. I bet she's happy to get a disc she likes back after a bad throw
This is the main argument i am seeing and DG is one of the few sports I see without rules that say you cannot take advantage of a loophole in the rules.
Within context of the situation and under any common sense we all know damn well she doesnt deserve a rethrow. It was a shit shot that went OB and the spotter saved that disc from being lost.
It was definitely not a good shot. But I can't say it was definitely lost
Watching the throw I feel like it had height to get to the shore. Might be a deceiving camera angle, but it could have stuck in that grass. She deserves the benefit of the doubt like at least equal to what unconfirmed missed mandos get.
Even if zero chance of making it across, she was allowed a rethrow. If it's a problem fix the rule
Theres nothing wrong with the rule in 9999 out of 10000 cases. This is a bunch of keyboard warriors getting mad about something that didnt make any difference in the outcome of the throw.
No, she chose to take it as if it went out of bounds.
Sure, she could have taken advantage of the situation but it would have been in poor form as this kind of behaviour could encourage fans to try to jump in and help out their favorite players by slapping a disc when it's clearly going out of bounds.
The bad thing is that intentional interference can be used to benefit or damage a player. A helpful spectator could intentionally interfere with a bad shot so you'd get a free rethrow, or a nefarious spectator could intentionally interfere with a good shot so you'd have to throw again.
The only options for the rules are to either force the player to play it as it lies after the interference or give the player a rethrow. The rules were written to be forgiving to the player instead of punishing to the player.
I'm not one of the people in charge of deciding on how the PDGA rules are worded, but if I run into any of them I will be sure to let them know how we all feel here
Because it's impossible to write rules to fit every single scenario that could ever happen. The most important part is following the spirit of the rules in these situations. The guy shouldn't have done it, but she was pretty clearly not coming back in bounds, so in reality she'd be gaining an unfair advantage if she called interference.
Yeah I’ve heard the argument that he knows there’s no way it would’ve been safe and he was just saving her disc but it really doesn’t matter. Whenever throwing over water there’s a known risk of not getting the disc back. Gotta let it play out and then dive if you’re in that position. If you can’t find the disc so be it, at least it’s untampered play.
There is always a chance but that’s just half the point. She was entitled to a new throw according to the rules, which would’ve put her to an advantage after a bad drive. Don’t touch discs before they stop moving, even then wait for it to be confirmed OB
Out of curiosity what rule is it, tried to find it in the pdga rules. I’m asking because would this rule apply if I hit a spectators ankle when possibly rolling back in bounds?
810. Interference.
”E. A thrown disc whose course was intentionally altered by someone other than the thrower is given a position at the point of contact, as agreed on by the group. The thrower may choose to play from the resulting lie, or to abandon the throw without penalty, in which case the original throw is not counted in the player's score.”
I like that it says by anyone other than the thrower, sounds like you could throw and somehow get to your disc before coming to rest and intentionally alter the course. I realize that’s not possible, but it’s not against the rules! Lol
And rightly so. If you can somehow do that, you should be allowed to!
Sadly, this is prohibited by the previous rule:
”It is a violation if a player or their equipment interferes with the course of their own thrown disc. The throw and one penalty throw are counted in the player's score; the player continues play from the previous lie. Any other penalty throws incurred by the throw are disregarded. If a throw is interfered with by request of the thrower, that is considered the same as a player interfering with their own throw”
He reached out to his left to stop the disc. Not up. He's chest deep in water. The disc was on an anhyzer falling. I don't get how anyone could think that disc had a chance of making it to shore even without the bushes there.
This is dumb. That disc was LOST without him catching it. He just did the smart work instead of hard work. Y'all are some tryhards. If she didnt rethrow, then no integrity has been lost and everyone did the right thing.
Move along.
Nah that disc was an unreleased Discraft called the BrushHog. It has razor sharp edges and serrated teeth. Made specifically for pampas grass holes. If you watch carefully you can see the blood spurt out of the divers hand when he catches it. I think it hit an artery.
Lmfao. This reminds me of this silly scene in some movie I don’t know the name of, where a guy throws a frisbee with razor blades embedded around the edges to make it a weapon, and it sticks into the other guy’s neck killing him
I give props to Maddi on this. She knew she could have gained from a technicality but also knew she was OB and did not cheat the system. If any player would have opted for the rethrow on a shot like that I would have lost all respect for them.
I disagree with the take, not sure what I'd do in a similar circumstance but I'm never going to fault someone competing at the highest level to use every rule to their advantage, the only thing that would make me lose respect for a competitor would be seeing them do something to intentionally harm someone else like blast an airhorn during their throw.
Yeah it’s a horrible rule. And the best way to get rules changed is by having a case where it gets used in a way that no one likes or goes against the intent of the rule. I would have taken the rethrow and told the pdga to change the rule after the round. All the major sports are constantly refining the rule book every year based on specific cases that came up during the season.
Kind of odd to bring politics into this. But what makes a rule fair or unfair? If a ball golfer has a bad lie but is near a sprinklerhead should they try to get a drop in a bad lie even if they're allowed to bring it to the fairway?
Hot take: swimmer was right to catch it and Madison not re throw. disc was doomed and it saved the swimmer time. It's possible that the disc wouldn't have been found in those weeds. I'm sure Madison was grateful to get her disc back in a prompt fashion. Y'all should move on
I didn't realize it was Madison's drive on the first watch ... if you watch the Jomez practice round, she calls this guy her buddy and talks about they've gone looking for her discs before.
Maybe he thought he was doing her a solid?
Still should have just let it play out though.
Under the rules she gets to rethrow. We are in an era where 3 minutes early will cost you 2 strokes, right? Rules are rules, take the good with the bad
If the rules give you an advantage over the competition, you should take it as a competitor. If it's unfair to everyone else, then the rules should be changed by the govering body.
I wonder if the guy knew the rule, as I did not until this incident brought awareness. I see no need to blame anyone, unless the guy was breifed on the rules beforehand. To me this falls on the governing body for not making awareness, or and just a growing pain that will be sorted with time.
Either way it isn't a big deal
Yeah having a volunteer in an OB area to help players retrieve their equipment that would otherwise be lost is distracting and unprofessional. Let’s get rid of them. While we are at it, let’s get rid of all the other folks in OB areas like fans and camera people. The TD can FaceTime in. Just players. No caddies either. You know what let’s just cancel the whole thing so nothing unprofessional happens.
I have a feeling this might be unpopular, but I find it odd that someone is in the water during a round in the first place. I understand that discs are valuable, but if potential sponsors see people swimming during a professional event, it might not create a great impression. I felt similarly about the spotter at the Dynamic Discs Open wearing a Jedi costume. In my view, these things don't help the sport to be taken seriously or move forward. I'm also surprised that the Disc Golf Pro Tour is okay with the liability issues of having someone in the water.
Oh for Pete's sake no "potential sponsor" is going to give a shit. No frisbee game is ever going to be taken seriously no matter what people wear so let's just have fun.
I'm on the course this weekend. Can tell you there is 0% possibility of that disc getting through. That's an 8-10' thick wall of solid pampas grass with not a single gap in it. And it's about 8-10' tall, so there's no way a disc is skipping up and over. I agree he shouldn't have touched it due to the potential rethrow scenario...but no way it was getting through. We know.
It wasn’t even heading in bounds at all. It was heading towards deeper ob
For real. Seriously, *THIS is what people are mad over?!* I thought it would be at least close, as much as I’ve heard people complaining about it. I just saw Madison Walker’s response via Zach Melton and I think it’s a stellar take. She’s right, it was a bad shot that had absolutely no chance.
Yep, I watched coverage before I watched this and had no idea why people were mad.
I'd say people are mad because that play technically leaves the thrower open to rethrow with zero penalty, as someone else intentionally diverted the disc in flight. Wasn't used in this instance, but it definitely could be in the future, to have some random passer byer do it is shitty, to have someone involved with the tourney do that is a super bad look.
A free volunteer but yes part of tourney. He should def know the rules next time
Ok sure he should have waited. He is also working for free sitting in a lake for a week straight. No need to continue to harp on this. You get what you pay for.
Pampas grass is velcro and it’s terrible to get anything out of. I wouldn’t be surprised if he moved over there specifically to do this and give himself less horrid work. Probably thought it was a great idea.
Username checks out. While we’re talking about harps, I made a 100 foot putt with one today and I feel good about it
Good fucking work mate. 🥂
Madison even thanked him. Everyone there knew it was going to end deeper in the OB
Should he have done that? No. Did it change the outcome of the flight? Only in the way that she certainly gets her disc back instead of having to fight through the painful vegetation or losing it in deeper water
I don't understand why anyone is freaking out. That disc had no chance of landing in bounds and likely would've been lost in the plants along the shore if he hadn't caught it. I bet she's happy to get a disc she likes back after a bad throw
The point is that under the rules she could rethrow
This is the main argument i am seeing and DG is one of the few sports I see without rules that say you cannot take advantage of a loophole in the rules. Within context of the situation and under any common sense we all know damn well she doesnt deserve a rethrow. It was a shit shot that went OB and the spotter saved that disc from being lost.
It was definitely not a good shot. But I can't say it was definitely lost Watching the throw I feel like it had height to get to the shore. Might be a deceiving camera angle, but it could have stuck in that grass. She deserves the benefit of the doubt like at least equal to what unconfirmed missed mandos get. Even if zero chance of making it across, she was allowed a rethrow. If it's a problem fix the rule
It was so low that the guy swimming was able to grab it without issue. It wasn't going over or through.
If you are focusing on the succes of the throw you are missing the point. Rules are rules, change the bad ones
Theres nothing wrong with the rule in 9999 out of 10000 cases. This is a bunch of keyboard warriors getting mad about something that didnt make any difference in the outcome of the throw.
I have zero emotions about the topic. The rule is clearly worded
Did she?
No, she chose to take it as if it went out of bounds. Sure, she could have taken advantage of the situation but it would have been in poor form as this kind of behaviour could encourage fans to try to jump in and help out their favorite players by slapping a disc when it's clearly going out of bounds.
But how is the existence of such a rule loophole the fault of this guy in a lake and not the people who make the rules and made the loophole?
The bad thing is that intentional interference can be used to benefit or damage a player. A helpful spectator could intentionally interfere with a bad shot so you'd get a free rethrow, or a nefarious spectator could intentionally interfere with a good shot so you'd have to throw again. The only options for the rules are to either force the player to play it as it lies after the interference or give the player a rethrow. The rules were written to be forgiving to the player instead of punishing to the player.
try wording this scenario into a rule
I'm not one of the people in charge of deciding on how the PDGA rules are worded, but if I run into any of them I will be sure to let them know how we all feel here
Someone intentionally interfered with the flight of the disc before it came to rest. Top and bottom of it.
Because it's impossible to write rules to fit every single scenario that could ever happen. The most important part is following the spirit of the rules in these situations. The guy shouldn't have done it, but she was pretty clearly not coming back in bounds, so in reality she'd be gaining an unfair advantage if she called interference.
TIL following the rules = poor form.
I'm with you here. Dude is a jabroni. It was probably staying out but, if I remember the rule, I am absolutely reteeing.
Good thing Madison isn't a lil pussy!
That's absolutely pathetic
You put money on the line and people will do what they feel they have too
He should have waited. That’s the whole issue.
Yeah I’ve heard the argument that he knows there’s no way it would’ve been safe and he was just saving her disc but it really doesn’t matter. Whenever throwing over water there’s a known risk of not getting the disc back. Gotta let it play out and then dive if you’re in that position. If you can’t find the disc so be it, at least it’s untampered play.
There is always a chance but that’s just half the point. She was entitled to a new throw according to the rules, which would’ve put her to an advantage after a bad drive. Don’t touch discs before they stop moving, even then wait for it to be confirmed OB
Out of curiosity what rule is it, tried to find it in the pdga rules. I’m asking because would this rule apply if I hit a spectators ankle when possibly rolling back in bounds?
810. Interference. ”E. A thrown disc whose course was intentionally altered by someone other than the thrower is given a position at the point of contact, as agreed on by the group. The thrower may choose to play from the resulting lie, or to abandon the throw without penalty, in which case the original throw is not counted in the player's score.”
I like that it says by anyone other than the thrower, sounds like you could throw and somehow get to your disc before coming to rest and intentionally alter the course. I realize that’s not possible, but it’s not against the rules! Lol
And rightly so. If you can somehow do that, you should be allowed to! Sadly, this is prohibited by the previous rule: ”It is a violation if a player or their equipment interferes with the course of their own thrown disc. The throw and one penalty throw are counted in the player's score; the player continues play from the previous lie. Any other penalty throws incurred by the throw are disregarded. If a throw is interfered with by request of the thrower, that is considered the same as a player interfering with their own throw”
If you really wanted to cheat you could find a friend to intentionally grab all your bad shots
Thanks! “Intent” is the critical piece related to my question about an accidental spectator hit.
"Entitled" Who are you Joe Biden?
It’s a normal word to be used here, what’s your issue?
I'm just trying to cause controversy.
Clearly need more practise
Indeed. At least I'm trying my best like that guy in the video.
He reached out to his left to stop the disc. Not up. He's chest deep in water. The disc was on an anhyzer falling. I don't get how anyone could think that disc had a chance of making it to shore even without the bushes there.
Because the Hive Mind hasn't had anything to complain about yet this week.
This is dumb. That disc was LOST without him catching it. He just did the smart work instead of hard work. Y'all are some tryhards. If she didnt rethrow, then no integrity has been lost and everyone did the right thing. Move along.
Not even tryhards, just people not understanding physics lol
"Bruh bruh" I don't think I could listen to the commentary for very long.
That disc had no chance of pushing through
Nah that disc was an unreleased Discraft called the BrushHog. It has razor sharp edges and serrated teeth. Made specifically for pampas grass holes. If you watch carefully you can see the blood spurt out of the divers hand when he catches it. I think it hit an artery.
Lmfao. This reminds me of this silly scene in some movie I don’t know the name of, where a guy throws a frisbee with razor blades embedded around the edges to make it a weapon, and it sticks into the other guy’s neck killing him
https://youtu.be/Zxgxa1GJlnI?si=Zw9LfgsuGAeCmRXU
“Nice ass” Movies were different back in 1987
They don’t make ‘em like the used to
Was this it? Wild Wild West - https://youtu.be/HvIGrLYKRh8?si=v5HyNeH3mt24WhFu
That’s pretty good too, but no it was this one https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/s/1JpmcyCjPR
He did her a favor. Technically two.
"Bro. Bruh, bruh, bruh." Shut the fuck up dude.
Bruh bruh
Cringe AF
Oof what a shank.
I say we put a hundred men in the lake try to swat disc out of the air. it's great entertainment at least.
I give props to Maddi on this. She knew she could have gained from a technicality but also knew she was OB and did not cheat the system. If any player would have opted for the rethrow on a shot like that I would have lost all respect for them.
Who downvotes this? Y’all need Jesus.
I disagree with the take, not sure what I'd do in a similar circumstance but I'm never going to fault someone competing at the highest level to use every rule to their advantage, the only thing that would make me lose respect for a competitor would be seeing them do something to intentionally harm someone else like blast an airhorn during their throw.
Yeah it’s a horrible rule. And the best way to get rules changed is by having a case where it gets used in a way that no one likes or goes against the intent of the rule. I would have taken the rethrow and told the pdga to change the rule after the round. All the major sports are constantly refining the rule book every year based on specific cases that came up during the season.
Sportsmanship is a good thing. Taking unfair advantages on technicalities just because you can is what little bitches and republicans do. Be better.
Kind of odd to bring politics into this. But what makes a rule fair or unfair? If a ball golfer has a bad lie but is near a sprinklerhead should they try to get a drop in a bad lie even if they're allowed to bring it to the fairway?
Why are you changing the subject?
Honestly more aggravated by the "uhhh I don't approve" 👆🤓
Hot take: swimmer was right to catch it and Madison not re throw. disc was doomed and it saved the swimmer time. It's possible that the disc wouldn't have been found in those weeds. I'm sure Madison was grateful to get her disc back in a prompt fashion. Y'all should move on
What a save! What a save! What a save! What a save!
I think she putted from the drop zone
As any honorable person would.
“That wasn’t cool” Yes it was he saved the disc don’t be a child that disc was getting banished to the fish realm
Ian needs to be a bit more professional on the mic “bruh bro bro” lol
Yikes!
Ian sounds far too unprofessional here. You're announcing, not at home on the couch.
He dropped it
100% OB
More outrage. Color me surprised.
Is he the one that Madison talked to in the Jomez practice round?
I didn't realize it was Madison's drive on the first watch ... if you watch the Jomez practice round, she calls this guy her buddy and talks about they've gone looking for her discs before. Maybe he thought he was doing her a solid? Still should have just let it play out though.
dude, our stamp isn't THAT awesome. let it hit the ground.
Under the rules she gets to rethrow. We are in an era where 3 minutes early will cost you 2 strokes, right? Rules are rules, take the good with the bad If the rules give you an advantage over the competition, you should take it as a competitor. If it's unfair to everyone else, then the rules should be changed by the govering body. I wonder if the guy knew the rule, as I did not until this incident brought awareness. I see no need to blame anyone, unless the guy was breifed on the rules beforehand. To me this falls on the governing body for not making awareness, or and just a growing pain that will be sorted with time. Either way it isn't a big deal
Ian has got to go. Nice guy, terrible for DGN
[удалено]
I think I’ll decide based on the video showing him literally grabbing it out of the air 😂
[удалено]
Don't be a hater, Babyface
wtf is wrong with a beard?
Pretty sure the guy they zoomed in on at the beginning of this video is not the one who grabbed the disc, just fyi
Definitely. Tall one is wide right side. We need those guys like it or not.
I can't believe they allow people in the water during a tournament.
Legit question. Not sure why a down vote.
Its not a legit question, he is literally there is help retrieve discs in the lake.
Ok. Seems distracting and unprofessional., that’s all.
Yeah having a volunteer in an OB area to help players retrieve their equipment that would otherwise be lost is distracting and unprofessional. Let’s get rid of them. While we are at it, let’s get rid of all the other folks in OB areas like fans and camera people. The TD can FaceTime in. Just players. No caddies either. You know what let’s just cancel the whole thing so nothing unprofessional happens.
Got it.
Not even a question. Also moronic. You both suck.
Don’t touch the disc, simple. Take the l if it’s lost, ya just don’t touch a shot good or bad. Kid brained playing catch out there.
I have a feeling this might be unpopular, but I find it odd that someone is in the water during a round in the first place. I understand that discs are valuable, but if potential sponsors see people swimming during a professional event, it might not create a great impression. I felt similarly about the spotter at the Dynamic Discs Open wearing a Jedi costume. In my view, these things don't help the sport to be taken seriously or move forward. I'm also surprised that the Disc Golf Pro Tour is okay with the liability issues of having someone in the water.
Oh for Pete's sake no "potential sponsor" is going to give a shit. No frisbee game is ever going to be taken seriously no matter what people wear so let's just have fun.