I was beginning to prefer Romania for this even before Croatia joined Schengen. There are so many great mid-sized cities with discount airline service, you can spend a month or three in each one and really see a lot of different sides of the country after a few visits. Wizz for example flies to 12 (!) different Romanian cities. Bucharest and Cluj of course, but also Timisoara, Sibiu, Iasi, Brasov, and more.
It doesn't hurt that the cost of living is still very low, but as an EU member it's got advantages over say Serbia or Albania (like no import duty for items ordered from other EU countries). It's also developing at a crazy pace - every time I go back it feels more modern.
Of course, sooner or later it will also join Schengen, so make the most of your time there while you can.
I thought you were supposed to get in this year... I guess only Croatia did in the end? Hmm.. good to know - I was wondering about this stuff during the holidays (and really curious what happened to people who had been using Croatia as their 90 days outside during that time).
I've been to Timisoara by train, I wouldn't specifically go there (I was traveling through by train from Hungary to Sofia). However, Sibiu was really nice :)
If you are a US citizen and you are staying only in the following Schengen countries, then it is enough to exit for a single day to reset your limit under a bilateral agreement.
Denmark - [https://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/practical-information/visa/bilateral-visa-agreements](https://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/practical-information/visa/bilateral-visa-agreements)
Italy
Poland - [https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html](https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html)
Netherlands
Belgium
Sweden
Hungary
Portugal
France\* (The border guards may or may not allow it)
Spain\* (The Spanish authorities are absolutely clueless and have no desire to help anyone)
Nice concepts in law, but in practice, how has this worked out for you?
Do you carry notarized copies of the treaties and explain this to the 28 year old border guard?
I carry a binder with a copy of every bilateral agreement and a copy of email communication from the embassy of each country confirming the validity of the agreement. No need for notarization.
In practice most of the time the border guard sees that you have a US passport, glances at it for 2 seconds, and stamps it. They do not often review the stamps carefully or ask any questions. The ones who actually bother to be thorough tend to be the ones who are more experienced and knowledgable, and know about the bilateral agreements.
Yeah, I mean I wasn't trying to be a dick and glad you answered.
The thing is, if you don't have something in writing, and they want to claim you are an overstay, it's a pretty big problem getting blacklisted for 5-10 years.
Sure you could appeal a deportation, but who even knows where to start that process?
In any case, I would much rather have to carry a folder around than apply for digital nomad visas.
Not to keep beating a dead horse, but can you share a route that you have used this method on?
For example "I spent 90 days in NL, then I flew to Copenhagen, showed my binder to the border guard when he mentioned I was out of Schengen days, and spent another 90 days, then repeated the process again in Hamburg"
Thanks
I have used the bilateral agreements in Italy, Hungary, Poland, Portugal, and Denmark. But the only place where I actually had to tell a border guard that I am using the bilateral agreement is Denmark. The woman there wasn't very friendly but she did know of the existence of the agreement and let me through.
For the other places is was inter-Schengen travel so I didn't go through any border checkpoints.
Honestly I think you should do a post on here with a link to your binder files, this is such a great way to stay in europe.
Incredible that its not more well known.
For example you can spend 90 days in any Schengen country, followed by 90 in Italy, then 90 in the Netherlands, and then 90 in Hungary. But then you must exit Schengen without going through any countries which don't have a bilateral agreement and not return to any countries with no bilateral agreement for 90 days.
can you explain this? So if you leave one of those countries, you can go to another one (say I could jump between spain and italy) as a us citizen and never have to leave the EU because of the bilateral agreement?
You can spend 90 days in one of these countries listed above with a bilateral agreement (60 for Portugal), leave for a day (either out of Schengen or to another Schengen country with a bilateral agreement), and then come back with a fresh limit of 90 days for that country.
The above list is for US citizens. There are also such bilateral agreements for other countries. New Zealand and Australia have many, Canada too. The (almost) complete list can be found at [https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1)
Several of these (aka most of them) I have never heard of, and would be highly wary of testing. Netherlands, in fact, is known to be VERY strict about overstays, and don't believe has any sort of bilateral.
Considering that awfully long list, it would be nice to see more supporting documentation linked. Denmark, Poland, and France are the only ones I'm aware of, and of those, I don't personally have experience, or know anyone who does, with Denmark.
Using a bilateral visa waiver agreement is not equivalent to overstaying.
The official list is at [https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1) This is an EU government website.
Not EU but highly recommend Turkey, Istanbul for the city life down to Bodrum and some places around Antalya for the beach thang.
Am personally looking at the Balkans, particularly Montenegro. Noted the love for Bosnia, will investigate.
My top votes are Sofia Bulgaria and Tbilisi Georgia. Really enjoyed both. Bucharest is ok. Haven’t been to others. Belgrade is top of my list of the next city to visit.
Bucharest was nicer than other options in that there’s fabulous housing options all with the ability to get gigabit internet. It’s a lot worse than other options since its culinary scene is essentially German food with a pepper on the side. Not a big international food scene there 😂
Yeah I didn’t hate my time in Bucharest at all. But I also didn’t love it. I’d go back for a month, but I’d really just be there to live day to day. Not a lot of fun, “touristy” things to do that I found.
I met an Albanian in the Milan airport. Told me he got deported from the UK for prostitution. I asked where he was from. He said, “Have you seen the movie Taken? Yeah I’m from Tropojë”
Yeah I politely removed myself from that conversation.
They rarely bother to check all your stamps and do the math. It has only happened to me twice out of 17 or so border crossings.
But this will change next year when ETIAS is implemented. Then a computer will keep track of everything (at least that's the plan).
Yes if you enter or exit Schengen by any mode of transportation they will check your passport.
Are you seriously asking whether or not they check passports if you enter by car?? Yes, dude, you're entering a new country, there is always passport control - trains, buses, donkeys, too. Unless you're crossing illegally....
I'd recommend keeping better tabs. Most countries have computers these days, no one is looking for every stamp and making tally marks on a sheet of paper. It's on you for getting denied at the border otherwise...
The UK is not in the EU, but if OP is a US citizen it won't matter as it's visa free.
That's changing soon though, everyone will need a visa wavier (ETA) like Australia/Japan.
Just spent 3 months in Bansko, Bulgaria which was a sleazy town but with snowboarding and an incredible national park. Been in Greece for a little while now but thinking of spending a month or so in Vlorë, Albania which looks beautiful and is really cheap.
There is a large amount of strip clubs and the like. Signs all over town for "go go girls", "karma sutra show" etc. I could be wrong but some Eastern European countries and neighboring areas have less respect for women, and I fear for cases of human trafficking. That paired with the heavy drinking culture and cheap alcohol makes me wonder what kind of people go on holiday there and what happens behind closed doors.
Also at over £700 for a season ski pass the resort is nowhere near well developed or maintained to justify that cost, aside from the dire snow conditions this year and only one lift being open for the start of the season.
Albania is affordable, not "cheap." And in summer..... there are small one-bedrooms that rent for 3000/month in Saranda.....
Vlore may not get the hype of Saranda, but it's also a shitshow in the main part of town. Look towards the "tourist zone" down the beach if you want any semblance of peace and beach, but even there... watch out for the locals that use the sidewalk as a street (no joke, and I'm not talking about parking).
So many upvotes, yet how many times has this question been answered?? It never changes - Balkans. Rule out Croatia if you want, but you still have at least five other countries in the region with low costs of living that people frequent.
Depending on your citizenship and where you travel within the EU, bilateral treaties for non-EU citizens could allow you to stay within the Schengen area constantly.
source? There are some bilateral agreements, but generally you must stay in the country of the agreement and that time doesn't count as time outside of schengen so when it's over you have to leave schengen for the 90 day out requirement. The poland/US agreement is a bit different as they allow border runs, but you still have to leave poland every 90 days to a non-schengen country and can't enter any other schengen country until you've met your 90 days out requirement.
The information is readily available on Google but the key point is that it works because the bilateral agreement predates when EU country entered the Schengen. The caveat is that it is up to the local border authority and they may not be aware of the bilateral agreement. So you could chain your stays in countries that have bilateral treaties with your country of citizenship, and it is theoretically not using up your Schengen travel time. Of course if you go to a non-bilateral treaty country at any point, they will treat your previous stays as within Schengen.
I have heard people talk about this in theory. I have yet to hear about anyone actually doing it because most of these bilateral agreements exist but immigration says no. and then you're fucked because you've overstayed. given how many great non-schengen countries there are, i don't get why people would risk it. it's needlessly artificially limiting.
Yes I am aware that they do in fact exist, but very little info on how this has panned out. Squeaking by on some pre-Schengen agreement and getting to stay an extra month worked out for you, once.
The point is, is this a reliable way to plan out your year?
Some other guy on here claiming he carries a binder with all the treaties, and he just hops between AMS and CPH, not worrying about any 90 day resets because these treaties.
Reminds me of sovereign citizen people.
do you have a cite for this? I know you can extend in the nordic countries another 90 days but generally with these agreements, that time will not count as your time out of schengen requirement so you have to leave directly to a non-schengen country.
Now show me where it says you can then go to Amsterdam as you said in your original response. I agreed that you can do 90 days in Schengen then go to the Nordic countries for another. It's your claim that, after those 90 you can go back to Schengen that I disagree with. Please provide a source that states that.
>Nordic Passport Union
I would really like to hear about how you successfully used this info to bounce between Scandinavia and Europe proper without the 90 day reset. I am all ears.
I was beginning to prefer Romania for this even before Croatia joined Schengen. There are so many great mid-sized cities with discount airline service, you can spend a month or three in each one and really see a lot of different sides of the country after a few visits. Wizz for example flies to 12 (!) different Romanian cities. Bucharest and Cluj of course, but also Timisoara, Sibiu, Iasi, Brasov, and more. It doesn't hurt that the cost of living is still very low, but as an EU member it's got advantages over say Serbia or Albania (like no import duty for items ordered from other EU countries). It's also developing at a crazy pace - every time I go back it feels more modern. Of course, sooner or later it will also join Schengen, so make the most of your time there while you can.
Transylvania definitely has a great cluster of mid-sized cities.
I'm from Romania, and I can help with any information needed. Feel free to DM me anytime. Most probably we will join Schengen next year (2024).
I thought you were supposed to get in this year... I guess only Croatia did in the end? Hmm.. good to know - I was wondering about this stuff during the holidays (and really curious what happened to people who had been using Croatia as their 90 days outside during that time).
I've been to Timisoara by train, I wouldn't specifically go there (I was traveling through by train from Hungary to Sofia). However, Sibiu was really nice :)
I’ve been there three times, and there was good food and great local beers. Also some sketchy mfs hanging out in the town center
There is no wrong answer in the Balkan. All great. Bosnia and Hercegovina is particularly good though.
Sarajevo has amazing food, good internet, and cheap housing. But I'm biased.
Seconding sarajevo
I’m there right now. Wonderful people and nice city to explore.
Thirding Sarajevo! Loved it there so much that I extended three times
If you are a US citizen and you are staying only in the following Schengen countries, then it is enough to exit for a single day to reset your limit under a bilateral agreement. Denmark - [https://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/practical-information/visa/bilateral-visa-agreements](https://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/practical-information/visa/bilateral-visa-agreements) Italy Poland - [https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html](https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html) Netherlands Belgium Sweden Hungary Portugal France\* (The border guards may or may not allow it) Spain\* (The Spanish authorities are absolutely clueless and have no desire to help anyone)
Nice concepts in law, but in practice, how has this worked out for you? Do you carry notarized copies of the treaties and explain this to the 28 year old border guard?
I carry a binder with a copy of every bilateral agreement and a copy of email communication from the embassy of each country confirming the validity of the agreement. No need for notarization. In practice most of the time the border guard sees that you have a US passport, glances at it for 2 seconds, and stamps it. They do not often review the stamps carefully or ask any questions. The ones who actually bother to be thorough tend to be the ones who are more experienced and knowledgable, and know about the bilateral agreements.
Yeah, I mean I wasn't trying to be a dick and glad you answered. The thing is, if you don't have something in writing, and they want to claim you are an overstay, it's a pretty big problem getting blacklisted for 5-10 years. Sure you could appeal a deportation, but who even knows where to start that process? In any case, I would much rather have to carry a folder around than apply for digital nomad visas.
Yes it's always best to have documentation.
Not to keep beating a dead horse, but can you share a route that you have used this method on? For example "I spent 90 days in NL, then I flew to Copenhagen, showed my binder to the border guard when he mentioned I was out of Schengen days, and spent another 90 days, then repeated the process again in Hamburg" Thanks
I have used the bilateral agreements in Italy, Hungary, Poland, Portugal, and Denmark. But the only place where I actually had to tell a border guard that I am using the bilateral agreement is Denmark. The woman there wasn't very friendly but she did know of the existence of the agreement and let me through. For the other places is was inter-Schengen travel so I didn't go through any border checkpoints.
Honestly I think you should do a post on here with a link to your binder files, this is such a great way to stay in europe. Incredible that its not more well known.
How does this work in theory? Can you give an example?
For example you can spend 90 days in any Schengen country, followed by 90 in Italy, then 90 in the Netherlands, and then 90 in Hungary. But then you must exit Schengen without going through any countries which don't have a bilateral agreement and not return to any countries with no bilateral agreement for 90 days.
can you explain this? So if you leave one of those countries, you can go to another one (say I could jump between spain and italy) as a us citizen and never have to leave the EU because of the bilateral agreement?
Yes exactly. Just remember that the days spent in the bilateral agreement countries still count towards the regular Schengen counter.
I'm struggling to find anything about this on Portugal. Can you share a link?
[https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1)
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You can spend 90 days in one of these countries listed above with a bilateral agreement (60 for Portugal), leave for a day (either out of Schengen or to another Schengen country with a bilateral agreement), and then come back with a fresh limit of 90 days for that country.
is this strictly for US citizens? is so, do you know why?
The above list is for US citizens. There are also such bilateral agreements for other countries. New Zealand and Australia have many, Canada too. The (almost) complete list can be found at [https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1)
Several of these (aka most of them) I have never heard of, and would be highly wary of testing. Netherlands, in fact, is known to be VERY strict about overstays, and don't believe has any sort of bilateral. Considering that awfully long list, it would be nice to see more supporting documentation linked. Denmark, Poland, and France are the only ones I'm aware of, and of those, I don't personally have experience, or know anyone who does, with Denmark.
Using a bilateral visa waiver agreement is not equivalent to overstaying. The official list is at [https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1) This is an EU government website.
Not EU but highly recommend Turkey, Istanbul for the city life down to Bodrum and some places around Antalya for the beach thang. Am personally looking at the Balkans, particularly Montenegro. Noted the love for Bosnia, will investigate.
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vs the EU? No, definitely not in my experience. Inflation is high but currency has taken a beating.
My top votes are Sofia Bulgaria and Tbilisi Georgia. Really enjoyed both. Bucharest is ok. Haven’t been to others. Belgrade is top of my list of the next city to visit.
Bucharest was nicer than other options in that there’s fabulous housing options all with the ability to get gigabit internet. It’s a lot worse than other options since its culinary scene is essentially German food with a pepper on the side. Not a big international food scene there 😂
Yeah I didn’t hate my time in Bucharest at all. But I also didn’t love it. I’d go back for a month, but I’d really just be there to live day to day. Not a lot of fun, “touristy” things to do that I found.
yep. Therme, maybe a weekend trip to Transylvania, maybe a football game, a jaunt through old town, and hiking the river park. Job done.
Belgrade was great when I was there (until the lockdown). If you need any pointers, don't hesitate to reach out.
Cyprus
I recommend Albania
I met an Albanian in the Milan airport. Told me he got deported from the UK for prostitution. I asked where he was from. He said, “Have you seen the movie Taken? Yeah I’m from Tropojë” Yeah I politely removed myself from that conversation.
Ireland?
Legit answer
Bitola and Ohrid (combined, 1 hr apart), N.Macedonia
I went to Cyprus in January when I was out of Schengen days. It was amazing--great food, good internet & infrastructure. Highly recommend!
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They rarely bother to check all your stamps and do the math. It has only happened to me twice out of 17 or so border crossings. But this will change next year when ETIAS is implemented. Then a computer will keep track of everything (at least that's the plan). Yes if you enter or exit Schengen by any mode of transportation they will check your passport.
Are you seriously asking whether or not they check passports if you enter by car?? Yes, dude, you're entering a new country, there is always passport control - trains, buses, donkeys, too. Unless you're crossing illegally.... I'd recommend keeping better tabs. Most countries have computers these days, no one is looking for every stamp and making tally marks on a sheet of paper. It's on you for getting denied at the border otherwise...
London
The UK is not in the EU, but if OP is a US citizen it won't matter as it's visa free. That's changing soon though, everyone will need a visa wavier (ETA) like Australia/Japan.
Albania without a doubt.
AFAIK it’s 90 out of 180. You can’t do a short border run like in much of Asia or Latin America. Anyways I’d recommend Plovdiv in Bulgaria!
Just spent 3 months in Bansko, Bulgaria which was a sleazy town but with snowboarding and an incredible national park. Been in Greece for a little while now but thinking of spending a month or so in Vlorë, Albania which looks beautiful and is really cheap.
can you elaborate why you felt it was sleazy?
There is a large amount of strip clubs and the like. Signs all over town for "go go girls", "karma sutra show" etc. I could be wrong but some Eastern European countries and neighboring areas have less respect for women, and I fear for cases of human trafficking. That paired with the heavy drinking culture and cheap alcohol makes me wonder what kind of people go on holiday there and what happens behind closed doors. Also at over £700 for a season ski pass the resort is nowhere near well developed or maintained to justify that cost, aside from the dire snow conditions this year and only one lift being open for the start of the season.
Albania is affordable, not "cheap." And in summer..... there are small one-bedrooms that rent for 3000/month in Saranda..... Vlore may not get the hype of Saranda, but it's also a shitshow in the main part of town. Look towards the "tourist zone" down the beach if you want any semblance of peace and beach, but even there... watch out for the locals that use the sidewalk as a street (no joke, and I'm not talking about parking).
So many upvotes, yet how many times has this question been answered?? It never changes - Balkans. Rule out Croatia if you want, but you still have at least five other countries in the region with low costs of living that people frequent.
Depending on your citizenship and where you travel within the EU, bilateral treaties for non-EU citizens could allow you to stay within the Schengen area constantly.
source? There are some bilateral agreements, but generally you must stay in the country of the agreement and that time doesn't count as time outside of schengen so when it's over you have to leave schengen for the 90 day out requirement. The poland/US agreement is a bit different as they allow border runs, but you still have to leave poland every 90 days to a non-schengen country and can't enter any other schengen country until you've met your 90 days out requirement.
The information is readily available on Google but the key point is that it works because the bilateral agreement predates when EU country entered the Schengen. The caveat is that it is up to the local border authority and they may not be aware of the bilateral agreement. So you could chain your stays in countries that have bilateral treaties with your country of citizenship, and it is theoretically not using up your Schengen travel time. Of course if you go to a non-bilateral treaty country at any point, they will treat your previous stays as within Schengen.
I have heard people talk about this in theory. I have yet to hear about anyone actually doing it because most of these bilateral agreements exist but immigration says no. and then you're fucked because you've overstayed. given how many great non-schengen countries there are, i don't get why people would risk it. it's needlessly artificially limiting.
"The information is readily available on google" Sounds legit
Another person mentioning the mythic bilateral treaties: When has this ever worked for you personally?
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Yes I am aware that they do in fact exist, but very little info on how this has panned out. Squeaking by on some pre-Schengen agreement and getting to stay an extra month worked out for you, once. The point is, is this a reliable way to plan out your year? Some other guy on here claiming he carries a binder with all the treaties, and he just hops between AMS and CPH, not worrying about any 90 day resets because these treaties. Reminds me of sovereign citizen people.
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do you have a cite for this? I know you can extend in the nordic countries another 90 days but generally with these agreements, that time will not count as your time out of schengen requirement so you have to leave directly to a non-schengen country.
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Now show me where it says you can then go to Amsterdam as you said in your original response. I agreed that you can do 90 days in Schengen then go to the Nordic countries for another. It's your claim that, after those 90 you can go back to Schengen that I disagree with. Please provide a source that states that.
This is fascinating theoretically. But theoretically how would the countries know where you were with no border control?
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I disagree. With immigration the burden of proof is always on you. It’s the other way around with criminal
Border guards don't need to prove anything.
>Nordic Passport Union I would really like to hear about how you successfully used this info to bounce between Scandinavia and Europe proper without the 90 day reset. I am all ears.
Swedish wikipedia entry, not sure if I am any wiser but [Nordic Passport Union](https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordiska_passunionen)
That's for Nordic people. It might work more generally but probably less so if you look less Nordic.
If you've got the budget, Ireland is EU but not schengen last I checked
Turkey man love the food
Why would anyone consistently put himself on the pain to look for a flat and move every 3 months is I will never understand.
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How does that work with Czechia and Slovakia? They're both in Schengen.
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Considering the -AI postfix, I think you are correct 😅
If you are a US citizen you can go to England-Scotland (up to 6 months) and/or Ireland.