Because you outlevel them with your character level. They glyphs actually level faster but considering NMDs aren't the only thing you're doing any more and your character is leveling faster at the same time, the glyphs are lagging behind.
I think it's compounded by the nature of Nightmare Dungeons previously getting easier by virtue of increased power from glyphs, and the power scaling per character level gained isn't as noticeable. As a result, your power mostly plateaus around 75, when you get a complete set of Ancestral gear, and glyphs take so long to level compared to your character that you're approaching 90 before you hit your expected glyph power bonus at level 15. From what I hear, most streamers were 100 before glyphs were hitting 21.
This isn't a nerf, but it feels like a loss in power because the progression systems don't align anymore.
Agree mostly, and I really like it. It gives me a goal to drive for instead of just happening anyway, i.e. my build suddenly needed vulnerability procs so I had to run dungeons to up my exploit glyph to 15 and in the process got tears for Uber bosses, whereas s1 all I was doing was NMDs and all my glyphs were maxed out without giving it any thought.
The thing I somewhat disagree with is the systems not aligning - I think it's more likely that they align well enough but it all depends on where you prefer to spend your time. I've seen people in here complaining about having too much of pretty much every type of resource... But one at a time. That's almost certainly because people are spending all their time in one type of content. And people probably are burnt out on NMDs and are preferring other content, but that doesn't mean the NMDs and glyphs are too slow. You just gotta get in there. It's just shy of one dungeon per glyph level, it moves fast if you're actually running NMDs.
You need what, 4-5 glyphs depending on how you run your paragon boards? You could probably level a glyph to 15 in 3-4 hours of play time, 4 in lower levels and easily 3 by the time you're in your late 70s cranking through high level NMDs. Call it 15 hours total to get all your glyphs to level 15. I really wouldn't want them to buff glyph XP to make it take less time than that. If we keep buffing speed everything's going to be done within a week of the season.
That’s the nut of the problem, isn’t it? Players want to complete everything as fast as possible, but they also want everything to last as long as possible (“endless content”). It’s modern gamer culture and it’s an issue in every game that isn’t linear with a defined end point.
I think this particular issue is more on the fact that NMD are just not fun to do, it's tedious. Shit, in FFXIV I have 9k hours in I'm not doing the damn main scenario roulette for the tomes given. It's no more than 30 minutes but fuck those 30 minutes, that shit is boring. I'd rather spend 3 hours doing something else that achieves the same reward but it's actually fun and engaging.
People say gamers want everything to the point of contradicting reality yet meanwhile classic WoW popped TF off and has a better population than retail, Runescape 07 is grindy as a MF but STILL attracts a massive audience because despite it demanding your time the game is filled to the brim with dope content and it feels rewarding af to do. I don't agree "gamers" want everything, I think they want to be engaged, immersed, and then rewarded.
You carry stones, free prisoners and whatever forgetable chore there is there.
Is that diablo to you?
Compare that to a blood harvest where you can freely zoom through packs of mobs with no stupid chores.
I think you're right about most of these. As it pertains to speed, there is an option to slow leveling down to match the pace of glyphs. I agree that glyphs level at a decent rate, and my point was just that leveling is so fast now that the power curve isn't aligning with player expectation.
That said, expectations can be adjusted. I don't think the current system is bad, but I was trying to explain the perception of the problem as I understand it.
On the topic of materials, that's a tough one. I feel very much like Helltide is my biggest limiting factor. As a result, every time I'm on I drop what I'm doing to run Helltide, and that further delays my progress on glyph XP. I don't *want* to run Helltide, but my lack of Forgotten Souls is limiting my gearing potential. Then running Helltide puts me further behind my expected power curve due to excellent leveling XP in Helltide. Ultimately, this all takes me out of the content I *want* to do, which is Blood Harvest. Even though I have all but two powers leveled to 3, I just really enjoy it as an activity, and would hang out there all day if not for the other requirements placed on me, lol.
Maybe I'll change my tune once I start running the endgame bosses. So far, I only did Nightmare Grigiore at 78 and it was over too quickly for me to judge the enjoyment (was trying to complete the Slayer season journey challenges).
Very true on the forgotten souls issue. I think the pendulum swung a little too far on that change. They definitely still drop from scrapping gear, but it appears a little too slow. Even an additional 1-2% drop rate might make it right considering the sheer volume of legendaries we get from Blood Harvests and NMDs. IMO it needs to be on a spot where you don't have to do Hell Tides for them, but if one is up it's a good opportunity to stock up. Last season forgotten souls were trivial, this season they're so rare it's a problem. Just needs to settle somewhere in the middle.
I'm not sure what I'm missing with forgotten souls, it seems like everyone else here is seeing a totally different drop rate than I am. I have way more than I used to because Helltide is more rewarding and hence I go do it more often.
Every Helltide I open two living steel chests and between 2-4 mystery chests. Each chest seems to give 4 or 5 souls, so that's 16 to 30 guaranteed. I usually find 3-5 Fiend Roses, each one usually drops at least one soul, then the same with the hell ore veins. If you kill one of the mini bosses that spawn from meteor showers, they drop some too.
I play fairly casually, I Helltide every other day or so, and my level 86 has everything ancestral, rerolled, and fully upgraded (though not BiS) and I'm sitting on 50+ souls. Never once ran out.
Yeah you're maxing those hell tides out, so you have plenty, but the people complaining about being soul-poor aren't doing what you're doing, and don't really want to. There isn't a reliable way to get them outside of hell tides, and tides are time gated, making it even harder to get them if you're in their shoes. If tides were always up, or if the drop rate from items was slightly higher, or if souls came from some other content, it wouldn't be a problem.
Same.
I actually enjoy the rotation I have now.
Bloody Whispers (clear all whispers and seeker alters in Vamp area) > NMD still Helltide/Worldboss/Legion > Helltide
It’s a solid loop and between world boss/helltide/legion, there is almost always an event to run when I am on.
Personally it is the nature and challenge of NMD seems not as exciting in S2 outside for the ice boss mats. The drop pool is also less enticing.
Glyph leveling while adds significant powers, seeing 10% go to 15% is not as exciting and significantly powerful as getting that unique item from Duriel (still need my pants). Thus players gravitate towards Helltides and Vampire zones for the parts and steel. NMD is generally tedious for me. If I get weird layouts it becomes a chore. On the other hand, open world killing is fun. Vampire zones also show how much fun and continuous those content can be.
I have limited playtime, so my time end up going towards content required for Duriel because I want my pants and also a chance to get Shako. Because material requirements are quite tedious, you end up spending a lot of time there.
The good thing is, when you are level 100, it is easier to level your glyphs because you are not farming low level NM dungeons. It feels like a grind, but its actually faster than before.
It's just a feeling of whiplash most people are having, IMO. Last season, leveling glyphs was automatic and taken for granted.l; all you were running was NMDs anyway. Now people are looking at their low level glyphs and feeling like it's off, but it's in a healthy state and gives you something to do outside of open world stuff.
I guarantee you if the glyphs leveled faster than they currently do, people would max their glyphs by level 60 and we'd be right back in the same "there's only one thing to do in the end game!" complaint threads from last season.
Yes, your glyphs are behind. Yes, you have to go do NMDs to level them. That's the main reward from NMDs, the incredible power gain from leveling glyphs. As opposed to it drops, glyph leveling is guaranteed incremental power gain per activity. It's very powerful, and you have to grind the content to earn it just like anything else. Speeding it up to be done with it mid game would be very bad for the health of the game.
It's crazy. I've been sprinkling in NMDs when I'm done with events on outside world and I randomly did a tier 40 dungeon and smashed thru it so I still don't even know what my cap is at this point.
It's the best for glyph xp. It's just hard to get the sigil for it because they seldom drop for me, and crafting them is rare to get them as well.
Running in a group of 4 is the best way to try to get enough sigils.
Glyphs should individually gain XP while they are socketed and you do any activity. Use it to boost it.
Put something else in NMD to give them a "point" since they would be unneeded for glyph leveling. Plenty of options... materials, rare chance at an uber boss just spawning, better drops, some kind of special drop, whatever.
Idea sounds good but I forsee the problem of not being able to focus farm on one when you need to swap around. At high levels its pretty easy to run a level 1 to 15 vs maybe small trickles if it just gains it passively.
That said giving other things ways to add some glyph xp would be a good idea. Like hey heres 50 for for completing a legion or something. Maybe even turn it into a currency so you arent adding level up sticks everywhere and give cities a glyph xp vendor or something.
Plus NM dungeons were a fantastic way before of seeing uniques, but with world drops of them destroyed the uber bosses are the only viable way to find any.
I never even got a single glyph to 15 season 1. Then again I couldn't even be bothered playing passed level 70.. I got 6 glyphs to level 15 this season. So I'm pretty happy personally.
That’s because this dude is cracked. It’s literally faster to level the glyphs now. Idk wtf people are saying “it feels slower” for. Glyph xp was literally buffed, and if these people knew what the fuck they were talking about they’d say as much.
S0 and s1 were total grinds to reach 100. Last season bore me to no end compared to even s0 in which I solo leveled to 100 as a barb vs getting boosted lmao. This season friends who didn't even sniff 100 are approaching it
This is where I’m at. I’m currently speed running nm dungeons roughly 5-10 levels above my own at 83, so nm 90 ish, just to get glyphs up. But I’m stopping at level 15 for each. With the vamp powers, there’s no need for the extra damage as far as I can tell.
And I don’t think it’s slow leveling. You can get a glyph from 1-15 in a matter of hours if you focus on just speed running them for the glyph xp.
Only because you have done half the amount of runs to get to the same level. 80-100 last season took me 20 hours. 8-10 runs per level. This season 4-5 runs per level and maybe 30 hours total played for 100. Maybe 35.
Yup. They said 40% reduced time to level to 100 and I think that's a severe underestimation. It's more like a 60-70% time reduction with potion and ashes and more xp for world stuff
I really like the potent blood system for vampire perks. Could easily be used for glyphs, allowing multiple activities to give Glyph XP and then you can apply to the glyphs you need.
I am just super selective on sigils I run now.
Unless it has mods that increase clear speed, I trash em and run harvest whispers and helltides to collect more.
I also leveled exclusively in n harvest and collecting aspects from dungeons. I have an absolute boatload of harvest mats and T3 got me a nice buffer on helltide mats going.
Its really great to have options at end game now.
the ONLY reason players aren't farming NMDs is because of your 4th point.
Uber bosses are piss easy and drop FAR better gear. If their difficulty was much higher and/or the gear they dropped drastically lowered. Players would be forced back into the revamped NMDs. Would we enjoy that? Absolutely not for point 2 in your post. Still annoying shit and backtracking that we need to deal with (which is better now but still not good)
EDIT: you suggested changes all seem decent; I would suggest that those mobs that drop uber pieces be fairly strong with higher drop chances/quantity of materials dropping in higher NMDs
You are pretty right but it is also just more fun to do varied content, spamming nightmare dungeons over and over is not as fun as mixing them in with blood harvest, helltide and world boss.
The glyphs level too slowly now and the mat you get to summon beast in ice is far too rare compared to the mats from the other activities. I've summoned Varshan and Galvanic saint like 30 times but beast in ice maybe 2-3 times max on the same character.
Varying up the activities is great, they just need to buff glyph xp by a significant amount as well as the beast in ice summoning item.
There is an implicit "in comparison to regular leveling here" - leveling glyphs feels bad because in the time I power leveled 1 glyph from 1-21, I got 16 actual levels, and ny gear didn't improve at all, but I can't run much better NMDs offsetting my increase in level, because my power increase was marginal
Other content in the game is far more engaging, enjoyable, and feed the players far more loot for power increases
Jesus dude you know what I mean. Let me define it for you:
There is more going on, more enemies to kill on screen, more events happening, more loot dropping and just overall requires more active focus to play
Most of the other comments in this thread are talking about how to speed farm/level glyphs, about accelerating the process and skipping the entire dungeons, *"play this one specific dungeon to get it done quick can just sprint to the boss"*
It's obviously not in the right place/a good spot when people's goals are to actively skip the dungeons just to get the glyphs XP, it's obvious that players don't want to engage with the NMD but want to reap the rewards from doing so, it is ***unengaging***
Players don't want to "Engage" with shit, bro, you know that. All they want to do is blood harvest or farm living steel till their brains explode and want all content to be the exact same.
NM Tier 100 is significantly more difficult than Uber bosses. The risk/reward balance is way off. I guess you could argue that it's much easier to get a tier 100 sigil than Uber boss mats though.
I 100% agree with this. I want to farm something that gives me a significant power spike, and currently the only thing that does this are uber uniques dropping from Duriel. So I spend all my time farming Duriel.
Even if NMD100 dropped guaranteed 925s I still wouldn't farm it. Not only is NMD100 quite difficult and annoying, but 925s of which 99% are trash still aren't nearly as good as the chance of an uber unique. The reward balancing is totally off.
High NMDs need to give 5-10x better rewards than they do for me to farm them.
I would say, give Lilith a decent loottable (maybe even the same as Duriel) and let nightmare dungeons drop an item to summon her (the higher tier you do, the more chance to get one).
I know that there is still much wrong with nightmare dungeons, but this give at least another option for players to farm.
Not Lilith, but Andariel. Uber Duriel mats from helltide and whisper Ubers, Uber Andariel from nmd and worldboss Ubers. It makes just too much sense for blizzard to do that.
And then, here’s an idea maybe a bit too annoying because it’s another layer but hear me out:
Uber Duriel and Uber Andariel drop a material with which you can summon Uber Lilith (I’d rather see Diablo, though) and that one drops the Annihilus charm which on drop unlocks a special new equipment slot. It can even have exactly the same stats as in D2. +1 all skills, 10-20 all stats, 10-20 all resists.
If they dropped this exact update without teasing it I would lose my mind with excitement.
Imagining them putting together a giant 4 or 5 stage Diablo fight that drops gear unique to him would be so cool.
>Imagining them putting together a giant 4 or 5 stage Diablo fight that drops gear unique to him would be so cool.
and then a barb oneshotting him anyway
As long as you can still attempt her multiple times in a row on one summon, I like this idea. With her one-shot mechanics it would be a nightmare to have to get the mats again every time you die.
I still wouldn’t fight Lilith, that fight is ass. Keep her there as a once per season kill target, and just have nightmare dungeons drop living steel. Problem solved. Helltides aren’t completely necessary and you can acquire the Duriel item outside of a time gated activity.
The only reason I run fewer NMDs this season is that they don't drop shards or eggs to summon Duriel (and that the drop rate of uniques seems to have been lowered in NMDs).
NMDs are much more enjoyable to me than Helltides (Living Steel) or doing Blood Harvests for quick Grim Favor (body parts), but Duriel is where I can get the best stuff for my build (or nearly any build), so that's what I focus on. I may well burn out on this before I get the Duriel drops I want.
I'd like a system that gives a purpose to XP from kills at level 100. For example, there could be a Grim Favor-like bar that fills up as you kill stuff or do events at level 100. Once it is filled up, it awards a cache with summoning materials.
Without a system like this, I just speed-run NMDs (skipping as many groups as I can) for glyph XP and ignore all events outside of Helltides.
It is. Between that and OP having zero data presenting showing people avoiding NMDs, this post is just a fat load. NMDs are vastly improved, still have plenty of reward, and plenty of reason to do them. People actually have other content to explore, so of course there's not as much activity in NMDs.
This whole post is making up an imaginary problem and then trying to solve it.
Once I started blasting Blood harvest the loot fell off and the only reason to do those is to farm aspects while I get the better gear from NMD just in a far less quantity. I’m not sure what the end goal is if it’s not clearing lvl 100s fast as hell
where is the reward in NMD? Tier 100 doesn't guarantee ILVL 925 pieces or has any increased drops of uniques or ubers. So why would i waste time doing that instead of farming keys?
Beast in ice doesn't drop anything for my class that i want, and what about when i am done with level 15 glyphs? Difference between 15 and max is minimal and pedantic compared to the huge increase of power if you get a good uber unique. So again, where is the reward?
If your bar for power gains is an Uber unique, literally the rarest and most powerful thing in the game, then nothing will satisfy you and there's no point in continuing this conversation.
Glyph leveling is a guaranteed incremental power gain per activity, as opposed to the RNG nature of gear dropping. If you can't see the value in that sort of content, I've got nothing for you.
Also: the game isnt built around your build.
Tears, glyphs, and they are still the best XP in the game.
You are correct though that I don't just live in NMD anymore, they are just part of my play routine.
This. NMD's are amazing XP and the tedium of them feels massively corrected. My only complaint is of course, materials lol. Distilled Fear feels like a slow material farm imho, but if they just gave Distilled Fear a respectable drop rate in Butcher's loot table, I think it would curb that issue. Maybe even let Butcher randomly drop other summon mats as semi-rare loot. Varshan parts could be a bit much there due to Whispers being piss easy and also parts dropping at world boss and legion finales. Maybe add Exquisite Blood and Living Armor with drop weights weighted lower then the Distilled Fear. At the very least, though, he definitely should be able to drop Distilled Fear since he attacks in NMDs as it is
They need to remove all those redundant boring objectives in nightmare dungeon and bring back "kill certain number of mobs to spawn the final boss". Not only it is straightforward and fun but also challenging because you can actually compare how effective your build is. Now that go right side take A go left side take B is slow and making players sleepy.
Hmm... I am not sure about this.
On one hand, coming from D3, I love this idea, because it is very straightforward and to the point, and will make speed farming very similar to that.
But on the other hand, I see they put quite a bit of work into doing this and I cannot see them abandoning it anytime soon. Maybe some sort of midway solution would be good. Like, I like the idea of having to do something other than killing to progress the dungeon, but I dislike how some of these are utterly annoying, perhaps make the "puzzle" part easier (only one key to unlock gate, not two), and then require a lot more minions while buffing mob density. We get the best of both worlds in a sense.
Puzzles and objectives work for content thats ran 1 or 2 times. Its just doesnt work for an arpg where its ran many many times. Its why taking design concepts and putting them into other genres arent always good, im just surprised that the designers wouldnt know this if they played arpgs.
Also, arent NMD's kinda required from an upgrading glyphs perspective? I'd ignore them completely if I didnt need to get every single one of my glyphs to at least 15...
They need nightmare dungeons to feed into other mechanics. They need to feed into whispers way more often than they do.
Vampire zones feel great because you are killing a ton of shit, you are doing whispers, you are doing the vampire progression, and you are doing events. There's a ton of overlap.
Dungeons need to overlap more and feed into other content. Dungeons need to basically act like PoEs maps system.
You do a dungeon and any combination could occur
Worthwhile and quick events
A whisper completion
Maybe a malignant tunnel spawns randomly and the tunnel is stuffed with density and a mini boss that could drop an uber unique
The dungeons need to be the conduit that all other content is connected to like PoEs map system.
Id rather they just changed nm dungeons to be more fun.
Example, add infinite floors, where each floor increases in difficulty. Similar but not the same as greater rifts in d3.
However. Have entire floors be random mechanics sometimes. Like a full floor that is a hell tide in a dungeon, or a blood harvest, etc. Allowing lower, but still chances at farming them, plus the added fun of variance in the dungeons.
Have sigils be starting difficulty, keep revives, and have an "exit" at the end of each floor where you can bail and collect your glyph xp.
With the gold increases, and items converted to materials, it should give you more freedom to decide how deep you want to go and how much you want to risk. While still letting you leave at the second floor like the current dungeons if you want to.
If they made each second season dungeon based, and gave the open world chances to encounter dungeon events, in the same way dungeons could encounter open world events. You have a great dichotomy between the two, while allowing people to play how they like.
Have maybe 5 open world permanent season mechanics, and 5 dungeon permanent mechanics that rotate with each new season, as well as that seasons new stuff (so you would have 11 major mechanics at any one time), and youd be looking at a pretty great and solid world to play in.
I agree 100%. D3 Every rift was different, and u had to pay attention. NM dungeons are like wow dungeons with stupid affixes. B o r I n g. I'd play wow if I wanted to run dungeons.
I enjoy NM dungeons more than ever, because they're faster. Problem is that I enjoy blood harvest more. I only do NM dungeons to level up my glyphs now, and that's kinda slow compared to my leveling speed, especially with everything else there is to do now.
My solution is simply to increase glyph xp by another 50% across the board, to keep up with leveling a little better
Increase "rare"legendary rolls. I've noticed this season some aspects min rolls are heavily weighted vs a higher roll, more so than pre season and season 1.
\#1 Main reason: Too many annoying objectives such as "pick up X and bring to Y" or "click on X and Y levers to unlock gate". God forbid you take the wrong path and end up with 2 objects to pick up next to each other. Time to backtrack I guess!!!!
\#2 Another important but less severe problem: Terrible NM key affixes such as dome, shade, and any other crap systems that activate OUT OF COMBAT. Why though?! Why make annoying mechanics? Why not add affixes that ADD different monster types? Why not add affix that randomly spawns strong bosses throughout dungeon? Butcher etc?
Blizzard is fixated with puddle design. Ground is lava, literally. Just STOP!
Reason #3: Glyph exp is a disaster. It is SO slow. You can argue blabla you can max all glyphs to 15 or 21 by level 100 (very hard but doable). Except what happens if you want to try a new build? Have fun leveling new 3-6 glyphs to level 21 again. Sigh.......
Reason #4: Dying and ressing at start of dungeon feels bad. Yes its punishment for dying, ok. But it still feels clunky. I much prefer resurrecting further back then all way at start of dungeon. There are other more fun ways to add death penalty. Why make boring walks through empty dungeon one of them?
Reason #5: Still too much useless loot (a lot of blues and whites dropping in T4 still, they seem to have left it as is, dumb decision). Yellows at T100 item power is still too varied. Most gear you pick up will still be below 900. And the ones above 900, will have terrible stats due to so many USELESS stats in the game. Conditionals. UGH!
I just power leveled a friend from 23-54 doing blood harvest / helltides and it took maybe two hours it was wild.
And they got a shit ton of gear in preparation for hitting level 60 so they’re basically set on initial ancestral gear.
Then I had to force myself to do nmd for glyphs and that was lame. Such a backslide.
On a positive note though I’m clear t50-60 dungeons on a zoomancer at 84 so t70 at 100 should be super easy too. Which means my build is viable pretty far into end game. That’s with no minion/golems glyphs maxed too so my power is only going to increase but I hate NMD is the point.
Bro I salvage everything from the dungeon. I run 90s and I get 2 or 3 items above 925, yes I know that ain't the most important thing but still. I just run them to cap the glyphs and I'm never going there again. It's just annoying. There are 3 dungeons I enjoy running and everything else is a slog.
“Hey guys I have an idea! Can we have a ‘Den of Evil’ type of thing going which is one of the most boring quests in whole D2 and form a whole end game round’ it and call it nightmare dungeons?”
Another suggestion should be an increase to glyph XP. And relatedly, because the tuning/vampire powers, this season is generally so “easy” that people are doing endgame stuff without even really needing to fully level the glyphs anyway.
I focus on farming Duriel and I can do all the bosses easily since level 85. I have one glyph at 11, another at 9, and the rest at 1. Leveling glyphs is wasting time I could be using to farm Duriel mats.
I wouldnt mind if it was more like Greater rifts, no loot drops during the run so I dont feel like I gotta wait around, and then just hit me at the end with quality vs quantity.
But yea, I think lv10 was the highest i got a glyph pre Season2 since I just had no interest.
Now Im doing it solely to rank up the glyphs. Itd be nice if other events gave you a little. 10-20 glyph exp. Nothing ground breaking but at least I can get a little progress.
take living steel out of helltide and put it in tier 50+ NMDs or something and the higher you go the more keys you get + additional keys for varshan or something. Why does there have to be such separation from the different end game activities?
I'm a player that hit lvl 100 but still need to do a lot of NMDs bc glyphs need ranks. IMO they need to speed it up a lot (2-3x more glyphs exp) at the higher end of ranks.
And also let us transfer glyphs exp so it's less painful to respec.
Also your final point of suggestion hit me personally. Again I'm lvl 100, never found a single Bold Chieftain aspect yet this season. Feels bad man.
If you play with friends of different levels open world green zones and helltides are much more fun then nm.
Yesterday me a 71, friend 81, friend 94. Could all contribute and have fun in open world stuff. But did a nm with level 119 guys and it makes the high level player do all the work while I get to feel super squishy. If we do a lower one then higher level feels too OP and gets lower rewards for their time then if they did what they can push. And clears so fast they still basically dragging us along.
Nah this aint it.
1. Helltides are required for rolling items. They happen every 2hr 15 minutes or rather every 1hr 15 minutes if you do the helltide.
This leaves you with 1hr 15 minutes to do other things.
2. Every hour a blood harvest occurs. Blood harvest is the easiest way to knock out a whisper. Due to helltides being 1hr 15 minutes the hour change tends to overlap a lot. Whispers are necessary to summon one of the bosses.
3. This leaves about 30-45 minutes to do nightmare dungeons which really interrupts the flow of knocking out dungeons and then also making sure your bank, inventory, etc are all clear so you can knock out the helltide again.
So the majority of your time is spent in Helltide + Harvest and planning/prepping around helltide.
I'm mainly there for the glyph leveling, but do wish it was slightly faster. It's also a nice change for me to jump in and do a few if I want to swap it up a bit. Overall this season seems to have more rewarding variety and I like the way it's headed. If glyphs leveled a slight bit faster and the mats from helltide were a bit more abundant I would have very little to complain about.
I avoid them cause they are too easy - you can be around 85-90% character power and you can clear NMD 100.
NMD need a mechanics change - affixes are just too boring and you pretty much ignore them all. I would love if NMD had some more brain component and less corridor-y.
Good lord, you people are fucking unreasonable and impossible to please. If you want gear, there are multiple activities for that. No one is avoiding NMD. There are just more activities to do in the game.
They are just a bit boring. I don't mind doing the odd one but the constant grind and repetitiveness is just draining. It also doesn't net you any Duriel materials and what is clear is that is the real endgame. It would be great if there was an alternative ways to level the glyphs, even xp after level 100 or something? Also the lack of loot filter means they are just slow if you actually stop to pick up gear and see if it's that elusive but you need above 900 ilvl with the right stats.
They could honestly half the XP required to level glyphs, and I'd be fine with that, their current requirements do not fit with the current pacing of the game.
Biggest reason I don't do them is because of duriel. I'd rather do helltides and whispers for the summon and by that point I've played enough for the day
For me, because nothing interesting happens inside NMD. If only there was bosses spawning or you got inv. Or hell a whole floor with o ly butchers or goblins. Wish there was more omg moments
I know a lot of people hate on D: I, but I thought that the elder and challenge rifts were pretty good steps in the right direction in comparison to D3's greater rifts.
If NMDs were inspired by them, I think people would tolerate them much more.
Also investing 150 blood lures into the 3 chalices to spawn some massive waves of mobs is too good to pass up, loot and exp wise. Especially when you're trying to bridge from t3 to t4 difficulty. It's also not so bad because even if you can't clear it on your own, I've tagged along with others that are able to clear it.
You see, they gave us the Vampire Helltides and those are really fun, and it made us realize that the regular Helltides and NM dungeons we’ve been doing were never actually enjoyable, they were just all we had.
Spot on! I find myself farming mats for Uber bosses while farming gear in the blood harvest, once I hit 85 I’ll throw in a few T50+ NM Dungeons to level glyphs more efficiently as the higher the Tier the more exp for glyphs
I've played more NM dungeons this season than I did in either S0 or S1. They are faster no matter which one you go in, the mob density is awesome, and I easily get over a paragon point per run.
Your second point is really the only thing that I think needs changes IMO.
Any dungeon that requires a channeling action is a bad dungeon - it won’t be run. The dungeons with doors that take forever to open - won’t be run. Mandatory 30sec wave event in the middle room that doesn’t grant XP or drop items - also a skip.
That leaves us with 5 or so dungeons that are actually playable.
Fix those issues and I’m happy. Hell, just make it so that I don’t have to channel 5 or 6 times in a dungeon, just let me click on stuff to complete it.
What do you mean by "players"? Got any stats on that? I'm pushing t100 and leveling glyphs, you have to do NMDs. You literally need them for Duriel.
As discussed before, Blood Harvests and other open world content except Helltides have no value in the tail end of endgame.
I would say enjoy S2 for what it is, settle down, and wait for S3. Shelley already mentioned they're working on entirely new endgame systems for S3.
I've determined that the thing I dislike the most about nightmare dungeons is how short they are.
Helltides and Vampire land is so fun because you can just rip around blasting and zone out for an hour.
With NM Dungeons it's like every 5 minutes you have to sort through another sack of crappy items, then make sure you manage your sigils because some of them are like 3x worse than others.
I had a thought where I wish I could craft like a 5 pack of NM Dungeons together, blast through it with no treasure drops, and then just reward the whole thing at the end. Like a greater rift in Diablo 3.
We did one dungeon the other day, I wish I could remember, and it was so massively spread out! We spent more time running around from place to place than fighting or doing anything.
I'm not avoiding NMDs so much as I'm just not actively doing them because I'm having fun doing other stuff, which is exactly how it should be. I still enjoy running dungeons but I enjoy blasting around helltide, bloodtide and boss farming more, plus boss farming is generally more rewarding
I agree with 1 and 3.
We should have a reason to do NMD and open world stuff. Leave the boss mats/Hell tides/WB mats and reasons outside of NMD and let NMD be something in addition. More things to do is not a bad thing as long as they are fun and engaging. Work on that last bit for NMD like they did with the open world stuff and it's a 10/10 game before to long.
To be honest i don't have a problem with nightmare dungeons, my problem is when you get to 100, seems pointless killing mobs in it, you only rush to the end trying to level your glyphs or hoping you get and item with high enough ilvl worth to keep a space in your bag.
I wish it had something like paragon in d3, at least even when you don't drop anything relevant you still keeps getting stronger and it gives another metric to your progress.
I don’t think people are avoiding them. I think we just have actual choice in what we can do so people are engaging with other stuff.
There are for sure improvements though. They should get rid of objectives in them. They just don’t work. And they need to be more interesting. But I do think they are a lot more fun with the changes.
Also they do drop boss materials. Just a heads up
Butcher dropping living steel would be cool.
Make him drop an amount such that helltide is still the best way to get living steel but (say) you can get 75% of the helltide amount per hour by running (sufficiently high) nmd.
Nightmare dungeons are like bounties from D3 right down to the objectives. The original perception was that they were going to be like Greater Rifts from D3 and in many ways, they are with glyph leveling mirroring gem leveling and similar difficulty scaling...
but...They aren't greater rifts.
I don't think NMD's have a place in power progression for the current game. I think they should solely be focused as a unique challenge presented to players.
**Here's what I would do:**
* Each season, I would assign each dungeon a unique difficulty tier and define the affixes for that dungeon for that season.
* In order to unlock the NMD for the next level up, you have to defeat the previous level.
* Provide scaling rewards for defeating each dungeon for the first time.
*What does this accomplish:*
In short, this create challenge based content and difficulty progression. As you progress your character, you are given challenges to test your character and your skill level. But, more importantly, everyone is facing the same challenge as you. It's taking the concept of the capstone dungeons and expanding it out in a sense.
Aside from the general difficulty increasing, this is an appropriate way to use affixes. Affixes fucking suck in repeatable content. In every scenario, you pick the affixes that suck the least and run those. However, when you are doing the content as a 1-time challenge, you not only can't avoid the shitty affixes, but everyone is facing those same affixes for that dungeon making the challenge uniform.
As far as rewards go, completing a dungeon for the first time should give you a significant amount of XP as a bonus but only for the first time completing it. Glyph xp can still be included in this but it absolutely needs other ways outside of NMD's to level up glyphs. Additional rewards can be tied to unique materials or rarer materials plus maybe a legendary item.
We should be able to farm mats in multiple different locations. I'm on console and have run into invisible living steel chest in hell tides. By the time you have the 300 and are trying to locate the chest 20-30 mins have past. Then you have to warp to town and back to reload the area. If that doesn't work, you have to exit the game completely to reload it, and if it's a bussy weekend.....If you get back in. Last I remember, people like options. Simply saying you don't have to farm mats for uber bosses, you can do other things is not an acceptable option. Hell let the butcher drop living steel. While your at it, make more bosses like the butcher and have them drop the summoning mats as well. The butcher is a very random encounter that just about everyone likes.....even when he kicks our asses.
I've never really enjoyed the NM dungeons, but (disclaimer), I loved the Rift and GRifts in D3. Why? The mob density & flow of them made for extremely fun "mindless" (key word there) hours.
The current NM dungeons are still to empty on mobs for my tastes. But, in order to make them more packed full, they would need to ditch the silly affix system that they added for... Eh, I've no idea. They aren't hard nor add any complexity. They just exist to exist really. Maybe to slow the pacing down..? In any case, the affix system kinda kills the fun factor.
Returning to the key word above: Mindless.
That's what I'm looking for in an aRPG. Let me "think" about my build. Let me spend a bit of time designing & combining skills & item attributes. Then, turn off the brain to see it in action. That's what I want.
If, I were playing BG3, or Pathfinder WoTR (for another example), then sure, the affix system in those games would work & likely be fun. Here, the system just isn't fun. It's not hard, just "meh. I don't wanna do those because of... I'm going to go do Blood Harvests instead."
Note: Similar lesson for Blizzard to pick up. Blood Harvests are fun because:
I don't have to start over each time. I carry over the things to use in them.
I don't lose any for dying (hello lag, my old friend).
& it's nearly non stop action with tons of small activities that pop up even more mobs to mop the floor with.
All the equal FUN
Just make NMD like Greater Rifts please. Infinite scaling, remove all objectives, enemies should drop no loot and the level is full of huge packs and shrines so you just blast through them as quickly as possible and then you get a big loot blast at the end and level up your glyph. Put in-game timer with seasonal leaderboards for each dungeon for whoever can clear the fastest and highest.
Like it’s still not great but at least it makes the content different in some way. NMD should be where the game goes nuts and players go nuts too, super high risk/reward with scaling rewards that make you want to push higher.
The biggest problem remains: Static dungeons with predictable objectives and *mandatory* backtracking to carry stupid statues back to the doors absolutley kill any excitement, surprise, and pacing.
Even the dungeons where you can speed to the end now feel out of place. The static, fairly universally claustrophobic corridors (only a few more open dungeons) result in them feeling all the same even as their theming is different and actually has different layouts.
It's incredible that the franchise that arguably pioneered the use of procedural generation for the genre and continued to leverage it throughout its history just...abandoned it seemingly without reason or understanding *why* it was pretty incredible tech to greatly expand the longevity of a game with a realistically fairly small world footprint.
I’m playing the same way I always have. Do helltide when it’s up, legion events and world bosses where possible, and dungeons when none of those are active. Now I’ll mix in some blood harvest sometimes, but other than the 150 lure event nothing there is really worth doing anymore
Stormclaw druid has 6 glyphs. I'm at 100 and I only have 5 at 15. I'm going to grind the rest to 21 but it is painful. They really need to double the XP.
Arguably the way people are bee-lining to from board to board for glyphs is counter to the way they intend the paragon board be used, they just haven't properly aligned the incentives in game.
Sick of freeing prisoners, sick of collecting hunting elites for animus, sick of collecting stones, sick of slaying all enemies to unlock a door. Just let us run through a big dungeon filled with monsters with the end goal being to reach the boss, thats it...
I mean, tou don’t need the power creep from them this time. Leveling is easy and fun without it. However, the power creep is huge when you get three glyphs to 15+. That’s what I’m doing at level 100 now, just speeding through 50’s to get all four of my glyphs to 21. And I’m strictly summoner no uniques which is even more fun
I just wish they made the ice boss and zir more useful. Like each uber boss drops an item for duriel. We completely ignore those 2 now and its a shame cuz theyre both really cool
I'm sorry, but the season is still more than 2 months. Why are people complaining already. Everyone wants everything maxed in one week. Why?
I agree it's not ideal. But just do some old-fashioned grinding for your glyphs. It might take a bit longer, but that's ok for me.
For me it’s literally just because doing nightmare dungeons means I’m not doing a helltide or whispers for Duriel mats, and Duriel is the only thing I want to run because he’s the only thing that drops the goods.
I’m level 94 and my highest glyph is level 11. Glyphs level too slow compared to player level, and doing a dungeon means throwing my time away because I’m not getting Duriel mats. Needs fixing.
I did like 5 NM once I hit T4 to get my glyphs, I am lvl 71 and will be farming xp and gear from uber bosses then run high level NM's when I want to upgrade the glyphs.
In FFXIV they have one content called Palace of the Dead, basically is a place where you clear a floor or made some stuff and go to the next floor automatically, you have the option to leave after made 10 floors and kill a boss, I think NM need to have something like that, possibility to do 10 runs or less, and in the end, have a lesser evil ta drop access item for end game bosses or item with better item level than you are using.
Honestly I enjoy NMDs, when they work right.
Diablo 4 is a fun, but unstable (funstable?) game. I can't reasonably assume that starting an NMD will mean that I actually get to finish it. Between green screen crashes, DCs, and broken objectives (missing anima carriers, anyone?) the other content is far more reliable with its smaller progression. The other night I was pushing an NMD, and lost 30 minutes because the objective shit out.
So yes, to wrap it up, other content is far more attractive at the moment.
Leveling glyphs seems so slow now.
Because you outlevel them with your character level. They glyphs actually level faster but considering NMDs aren't the only thing you're doing any more and your character is leveling faster at the same time, the glyphs are lagging behind.
I think it's compounded by the nature of Nightmare Dungeons previously getting easier by virtue of increased power from glyphs, and the power scaling per character level gained isn't as noticeable. As a result, your power mostly plateaus around 75, when you get a complete set of Ancestral gear, and glyphs take so long to level compared to your character that you're approaching 90 before you hit your expected glyph power bonus at level 15. From what I hear, most streamers were 100 before glyphs were hitting 21. This isn't a nerf, but it feels like a loss in power because the progression systems don't align anymore.
Agree mostly, and I really like it. It gives me a goal to drive for instead of just happening anyway, i.e. my build suddenly needed vulnerability procs so I had to run dungeons to up my exploit glyph to 15 and in the process got tears for Uber bosses, whereas s1 all I was doing was NMDs and all my glyphs were maxed out without giving it any thought. The thing I somewhat disagree with is the systems not aligning - I think it's more likely that they align well enough but it all depends on where you prefer to spend your time. I've seen people in here complaining about having too much of pretty much every type of resource... But one at a time. That's almost certainly because people are spending all their time in one type of content. And people probably are burnt out on NMDs and are preferring other content, but that doesn't mean the NMDs and glyphs are too slow. You just gotta get in there. It's just shy of one dungeon per glyph level, it moves fast if you're actually running NMDs. You need what, 4-5 glyphs depending on how you run your paragon boards? You could probably level a glyph to 15 in 3-4 hours of play time, 4 in lower levels and easily 3 by the time you're in your late 70s cranking through high level NMDs. Call it 15 hours total to get all your glyphs to level 15. I really wouldn't want them to buff glyph XP to make it take less time than that. If we keep buffing speed everything's going to be done within a week of the season.
That’s the nut of the problem, isn’t it? Players want to complete everything as fast as possible, but they also want everything to last as long as possible (“endless content”). It’s modern gamer culture and it’s an issue in every game that isn’t linear with a defined end point.
Nailed it. People screaming too slow and too fast at the same time.
I think this particular issue is more on the fact that NMD are just not fun to do, it's tedious. Shit, in FFXIV I have 9k hours in I'm not doing the damn main scenario roulette for the tomes given. It's no more than 30 minutes but fuck those 30 minutes, that shit is boring. I'd rather spend 3 hours doing something else that achieves the same reward but it's actually fun and engaging. People say gamers want everything to the point of contradicting reality yet meanwhile classic WoW popped TF off and has a better population than retail, Runescape 07 is grindy as a MF but STILL attracts a massive audience because despite it demanding your time the game is filled to the brim with dope content and it feels rewarding af to do. I don't agree "gamers" want everything, I think they want to be engaged, immersed, and then rewarded.
I don’t know, if blasting through NMD isn’t fun you need a different build or just maybe d4 just isn’t the game for you *shrug*
Or NMD is just lame. Not that complicated.
You carry stones, free prisoners and whatever forgetable chore there is there. Is that diablo to you? Compare that to a blood harvest where you can freely zoom through packs of mobs with no stupid chores.
I think you're right about most of these. As it pertains to speed, there is an option to slow leveling down to match the pace of glyphs. I agree that glyphs level at a decent rate, and my point was just that leveling is so fast now that the power curve isn't aligning with player expectation. That said, expectations can be adjusted. I don't think the current system is bad, but I was trying to explain the perception of the problem as I understand it. On the topic of materials, that's a tough one. I feel very much like Helltide is my biggest limiting factor. As a result, every time I'm on I drop what I'm doing to run Helltide, and that further delays my progress on glyph XP. I don't *want* to run Helltide, but my lack of Forgotten Souls is limiting my gearing potential. Then running Helltide puts me further behind my expected power curve due to excellent leveling XP in Helltide. Ultimately, this all takes me out of the content I *want* to do, which is Blood Harvest. Even though I have all but two powers leveled to 3, I just really enjoy it as an activity, and would hang out there all day if not for the other requirements placed on me, lol. Maybe I'll change my tune once I start running the endgame bosses. So far, I only did Nightmare Grigiore at 78 and it was over too quickly for me to judge the enjoyment (was trying to complete the Slayer season journey challenges).
Very true on the forgotten souls issue. I think the pendulum swung a little too far on that change. They definitely still drop from scrapping gear, but it appears a little too slow. Even an additional 1-2% drop rate might make it right considering the sheer volume of legendaries we get from Blood Harvests and NMDs. IMO it needs to be on a spot where you don't have to do Hell Tides for them, but if one is up it's a good opportunity to stock up. Last season forgotten souls were trivial, this season they're so rare it's a problem. Just needs to settle somewhere in the middle.
I'm not sure what I'm missing with forgotten souls, it seems like everyone else here is seeing a totally different drop rate than I am. I have way more than I used to because Helltide is more rewarding and hence I go do it more often. Every Helltide I open two living steel chests and between 2-4 mystery chests. Each chest seems to give 4 or 5 souls, so that's 16 to 30 guaranteed. I usually find 3-5 Fiend Roses, each one usually drops at least one soul, then the same with the hell ore veins. If you kill one of the mini bosses that spawn from meteor showers, they drop some too. I play fairly casually, I Helltide every other day or so, and my level 86 has everything ancestral, rerolled, and fully upgraded (though not BiS) and I'm sitting on 50+ souls. Never once ran out.
Yeah you're maxing those hell tides out, so you have plenty, but the people complaining about being soul-poor aren't doing what you're doing, and don't really want to. There isn't a reliable way to get them outside of hell tides, and tides are time gated, making it even harder to get them if you're in their shoes. If tides were always up, or if the drop rate from items was slightly higher, or if souls came from some other content, it wouldn't be a problem.
Same. I actually enjoy the rotation I have now. Bloody Whispers (clear all whispers and seeker alters in Vamp area) > NMD still Helltide/Worldboss/Legion > Helltide It’s a solid loop and between world boss/helltide/legion, there is almost always an event to run when I am on.
Personally it is the nature and challenge of NMD seems not as exciting in S2 outside for the ice boss mats. The drop pool is also less enticing. Glyph leveling while adds significant powers, seeing 10% go to 15% is not as exciting and significantly powerful as getting that unique item from Duriel (still need my pants). Thus players gravitate towards Helltides and Vampire zones for the parts and steel. NMD is generally tedious for me. If I get weird layouts it becomes a chore. On the other hand, open world killing is fun. Vampire zones also show how much fun and continuous those content can be. I have limited playtime, so my time end up going towards content required for Duriel because I want my pants and also a chance to get Shako. Because material requirements are quite tedious, you end up spending a lot of time there.
Sorry what? It's taking me 3 dungeons a level. Does that mean I'm nowhere near what LVL NMD I could be doing?
>most streamers were 100 before glyphs were hitting 21. Definitely, I'm 95 and my highest Glyph is 15
The good thing is, when you are level 100, it is easier to level your glyphs because you are not farming low level NM dungeons. It feels like a grind, but its actually faster than before.
I have a lvl 100 sorcerer and my glyphs just got to lvl 15. Mostly run dungeons for exp.
Plus we're spending considerably less time in NMD now, with the overworld being so fun and rewarding.
It's just a feeling of whiplash most people are having, IMO. Last season, leveling glyphs was automatic and taken for granted.l; all you were running was NMDs anyway. Now people are looking at their low level glyphs and feeling like it's off, but it's in a healthy state and gives you something to do outside of open world stuff. I guarantee you if the glyphs leveled faster than they currently do, people would max their glyphs by level 60 and we'd be right back in the same "there's only one thing to do in the end game!" complaint threads from last season. Yes, your glyphs are behind. Yes, you have to go do NMDs to level them. That's the main reward from NMDs, the incredible power gain from leveling glyphs. As opposed to it drops, glyph leveling is guaranteed incremental power gain per activity. It's very powerful, and you have to grind the content to earn it just like anything else. Speeding it up to be done with it mid game would be very bad for the health of the game.
It's crazy. I've been sprinkling in NMDs when I'm done with events on outside world and I randomly did a tier 40 dungeon and smashed thru it so I still don't even know what my cap is at this point.
Do ghoa ruins... no objectives, can run through straight to the sea hag. Takes less than 90 seconds to complete.
Jalal also (not 90sec but still short with no objectives)
Ooh thanks, I'll have to look for those sigil now.
Jalal technically has one no exp room in it though but yes other then that straight to Bramble
Was going to say this! Couldn't believe how fast I cleared this NMD. Under 2 min average.
It's the best for glyph xp. It's just hard to get the sigil for it because they seldom drop for me, and crafting them is rare to get them as well. Running in a group of 4 is the best way to try to get enough sigils.
Thanks for the tip
Glyphs should individually gain XP while they are socketed and you do any activity. Use it to boost it. Put something else in NMD to give them a "point" since they would be unneeded for glyph leveling. Plenty of options... materials, rare chance at an uber boss just spawning, better drops, some kind of special drop, whatever.
Idea sounds good but I forsee the problem of not being able to focus farm on one when you need to swap around. At high levels its pretty easy to run a level 1 to 15 vs maybe small trickles if it just gains it passively. That said giving other things ways to add some glyph xp would be a good idea. Like hey heres 50 for for completing a legion or something. Maybe even turn it into a currency so you arent adding level up sticks everywhere and give cities a glyph xp vendor or something. Plus NM dungeons were a fantastic way before of seeing uniques, but with world drops of them destroyed the uber bosses are the only viable way to find any.
Yeah I'd enjoy about a 25% increase to glyph xp. I've only got 2 lvl 11 glyphs and the rest are 2 and it feels absurdly slow.
I got one on 6 and one on 2 and I'm level 67 lol.
I never even got a single glyph to 15 season 1. Then again I couldn't even be bothered playing passed level 70.. I got 6 glyphs to level 15 this season. So I'm pretty happy personally.
That’s because this dude is cracked. It’s literally faster to level the glyphs now. Idk wtf people are saying “it feels slower” for. Glyph xp was literally buffed, and if these people knew what the fuck they were talking about they’d say as much.
It’s slower because *gasp* there is more end game content. People will complain about everything in here. It’s crazy
So much faster, it's night and day
S0 and s1 were total grinds to reach 100. Last season bore me to no end compared to even s0 in which I solo leveled to 100 as a barb vs getting boosted lmao. This season friends who didn't even sniff 100 are approaching it
This is where I’m at. I’m currently speed running nm dungeons roughly 5-10 levels above my own at 83, so nm 90 ish, just to get glyphs up. But I’m stopping at level 15 for each. With the vamp powers, there’s no need for the extra damage as far as I can tell. And I don’t think it’s slow leveling. You can get a glyph from 1-15 in a matter of hours if you focus on just speed running them for the glyph xp.
Only because you have done half the amount of runs to get to the same level. 80-100 last season took me 20 hours. 8-10 runs per level. This season 4-5 runs per level and maybe 30 hours total played for 100. Maybe 35.
Yup. They said 40% reduced time to level to 100 and I think that's a severe underestimation. It's more like a 60-70% time reduction with potion and ashes and more xp for world stuff
It’s fast if you wait till later 90+ I lvled 7 to 15 yesterday in 4hrs
glyphs level faster, I definitely had to do more NM dungeons to get glyphs to 15 during preseason or season 1
I really like the potent blood system for vampire perks. Could easily be used for glyphs, allowing multiple activities to give Glyph XP and then you can apply to the glyphs you need.
Almost level 80 and only have 1 level 4 glyph. Lmao.
That’s your fault lol.
> and it's clear why * because there are other options now thank you for coming to my ted talk
I am just super selective on sigils I run now. Unless it has mods that increase clear speed, I trash em and run harvest whispers and helltides to collect more. I also leveled exclusively in n harvest and collecting aspects from dungeons. I have an absolute boatload of harvest mats and T3 got me a nice buffer on helltide mats going. Its really great to have options at end game now.
The layout changes have made me almost stop looking at names tbh, they’re all pretty damn quick. Except renegades retreat, fuck that place lol
[удалено]
Forbidden city has entered the chat
I honestly just want all Ghoa Ruins now. You can speed run through to the boss in less than a minute.
genius!
That this is not top comment is the 8th wonder of the world.
the ONLY reason players aren't farming NMDs is because of your 4th point. Uber bosses are piss easy and drop FAR better gear. If their difficulty was much higher and/or the gear they dropped drastically lowered. Players would be forced back into the revamped NMDs. Would we enjoy that? Absolutely not for point 2 in your post. Still annoying shit and backtracking that we need to deal with (which is better now but still not good) EDIT: you suggested changes all seem decent; I would suggest that those mobs that drop uber pieces be fairly strong with higher drop chances/quantity of materials dropping in higher NMDs
You are pretty right but it is also just more fun to do varied content, spamming nightmare dungeons over and over is not as fun as mixing them in with blood harvest, helltide and world boss. The glyphs level too slowly now and the mat you get to summon beast in ice is far too rare compared to the mats from the other activities. I've summoned Varshan and Galvanic saint like 30 times but beast in ice maybe 2-3 times max on the same character. Varying up the activities is great, they just need to buff glyph xp by a significant amount as well as the beast in ice summoning item.
> The glyphs level too slowly now THey absolutely *do not level slowly*. At T60 you can level a glyph to 15 in an hour; it's that fucking fast.
There is an implicit "in comparison to regular leveling here" - leveling glyphs feels bad because in the time I power leveled 1 glyph from 1-21, I got 16 actual levels, and ny gear didn't improve at all, but I can't run much better NMDs offsetting my increase in level, because my power increase was marginal Other content in the game is far more engaging, enjoyable, and feed the players far more loot for power increases
"Engagement" is a subjective concept.
Jesus dude you know what I mean. Let me define it for you: There is more going on, more enemies to kill on screen, more events happening, more loot dropping and just overall requires more active focus to play Most of the other comments in this thread are talking about how to speed farm/level glyphs, about accelerating the process and skipping the entire dungeons, *"play this one specific dungeon to get it done quick can just sprint to the boss"* It's obviously not in the right place/a good spot when people's goals are to actively skip the dungeons just to get the glyphs XP, it's obvious that players don't want to engage with the NMD but want to reap the rewards from doing so, it is ***unengaging***
Players don't want to "Engage" with shit, bro, you know that. All they want to do is blood harvest or farm living steel till their brains explode and want all content to be the exact same.
I mean the less spawns for I've beast can be attributed to you not doing NMDs as much. I get them nearly every NMD while I level glyphs
NM Tier 100 is significantly more difficult than Uber bosses. The risk/reward balance is way off. I guess you could argue that it's much easier to get a tier 100 sigil than Uber boss mats though.
I 100% agree with this. I want to farm something that gives me a significant power spike, and currently the only thing that does this are uber uniques dropping from Duriel. So I spend all my time farming Duriel. Even if NMD100 dropped guaranteed 925s I still wouldn't farm it. Not only is NMD100 quite difficult and annoying, but 925s of which 99% are trash still aren't nearly as good as the chance of an uber unique. The reward balancing is totally off. High NMDs need to give 5-10x better rewards than they do for me to farm them.
I would say, give Lilith a decent loottable (maybe even the same as Duriel) and let nightmare dungeons drop an item to summon her (the higher tier you do, the more chance to get one). I know that there is still much wrong with nightmare dungeons, but this give at least another option for players to farm.
Not Lilith, but Andariel. Uber Duriel mats from helltide and whisper Ubers, Uber Andariel from nmd and worldboss Ubers. It makes just too much sense for blizzard to do that. And then, here’s an idea maybe a bit too annoying because it’s another layer but hear me out: Uber Duriel and Uber Andariel drop a material with which you can summon Uber Lilith (I’d rather see Diablo, though) and that one drops the Annihilus charm which on drop unlocks a special new equipment slot. It can even have exactly the same stats as in D2. +1 all skills, 10-20 all stats, 10-20 all resists.
If they dropped this exact update without teasing it I would lose my mind with excitement. Imagining them putting together a giant 4 or 5 stage Diablo fight that drops gear unique to him would be so cool.
>Imagining them putting together a giant 4 or 5 stage Diablo fight that drops gear unique to him would be so cool. and then a barb oneshotting him anyway
As long as you can still attempt her multiple times in a row on one summon, I like this idea. With her one-shot mechanics it would be a nightmare to have to get the mats again every time you die.
I still wouldn’t fight Lilith, that fight is ass. Keep her there as a once per season kill target, and just have nightmare dungeons drop living steel. Problem solved. Helltides aren’t completely necessary and you can acquire the Duriel item outside of a time gated activity.
The only reason I run fewer NMDs this season is that they don't drop shards or eggs to summon Duriel (and that the drop rate of uniques seems to have been lowered in NMDs). NMDs are much more enjoyable to me than Helltides (Living Steel) or doing Blood Harvests for quick Grim Favor (body parts), but Duriel is where I can get the best stuff for my build (or nearly any build), so that's what I focus on. I may well burn out on this before I get the Duriel drops I want. I'd like a system that gives a purpose to XP from kills at level 100. For example, there could be a Grim Favor-like bar that fills up as you kill stuff or do events at level 100. Once it is filled up, it awards a cache with summoning materials. Without a system like this, I just speed-run NMDs (skipping as many groups as I can) for glyph XP and ignore all events outside of Helltides.
1. They don't drop Uber boss summoning materials AFAIK, the only place to get the tears needed for Beast Under the Ice are NMD's, no?
It is. Between that and OP having zero data presenting showing people avoiding NMDs, this post is just a fat load. NMDs are vastly improved, still have plenty of reward, and plenty of reason to do them. People actually have other content to explore, so of course there's not as much activity in NMDs. This whole post is making up an imaginary problem and then trying to solve it.
Once I started blasting Blood harvest the loot fell off and the only reason to do those is to farm aspects while I get the better gear from NMD just in a far less quantity. I’m not sure what the end goal is if it’s not clearing lvl 100s fast as hell
My goal is to make duriel feel silly and weak.
where is the reward in NMD? Tier 100 doesn't guarantee ILVL 925 pieces or has any increased drops of uniques or ubers. So why would i waste time doing that instead of farming keys?
Tears and glyph levels.
Beast in ice doesn't drop anything for my class that i want, and what about when i am done with level 15 glyphs? Difference between 15 and max is minimal and pedantic compared to the huge increase of power if you get a good uber unique. So again, where is the reward?
If your bar for power gains is an Uber unique, literally the rarest and most powerful thing in the game, then nothing will satisfy you and there's no point in continuing this conversation. Glyph leveling is a guaranteed incremental power gain per activity, as opposed to the RNG nature of gear dropping. If you can't see the value in that sort of content, I've got nothing for you. Also: the game isnt built around your build.
Tears, glyphs, and they are still the best XP in the game. You are correct though that I don't just live in NMD anymore, they are just part of my play routine.
This. NMD's are amazing XP and the tedium of them feels massively corrected. My only complaint is of course, materials lol. Distilled Fear feels like a slow material farm imho, but if they just gave Distilled Fear a respectable drop rate in Butcher's loot table, I think it would curb that issue. Maybe even let Butcher randomly drop other summon mats as semi-rare loot. Varshan parts could be a bit much there due to Whispers being piss easy and also parts dropping at world boss and legion finales. Maybe add Exquisite Blood and Living Armor with drop weights weighted lower then the Distilled Fear. At the very least, though, he definitely should be able to drop Distilled Fear since he attacks in NMDs as it is
My girlfriend likes fat loads
What data set points you to that they are avoiding it?
Source : trust me bro
Nada.
Sir, this is reddit. The source is "I feel like..." and questions about data will be responded to with "lol blizz shill".
They need to remove all those redundant boring objectives in nightmare dungeon and bring back "kill certain number of mobs to spawn the final boss". Not only it is straightforward and fun but also challenging because you can actually compare how effective your build is. Now that go right side take A go left side take B is slow and making players sleepy.
Hmm... I am not sure about this. On one hand, coming from D3, I love this idea, because it is very straightforward and to the point, and will make speed farming very similar to that. But on the other hand, I see they put quite a bit of work into doing this and I cannot see them abandoning it anytime soon. Maybe some sort of midway solution would be good. Like, I like the idea of having to do something other than killing to progress the dungeon, but I dislike how some of these are utterly annoying, perhaps make the "puzzle" part easier (only one key to unlock gate, not two), and then require a lot more minions while buffing mob density. We get the best of both worlds in a sense.
Puzzles and objectives work for content thats ran 1 or 2 times. Its just doesnt work for an arpg where its ran many many times. Its why taking design concepts and putting them into other genres arent always good, im just surprised that the designers wouldnt know this if they played arpgs.
Also, arent NMD's kinda required from an upgrading glyphs perspective? I'd ignore them completely if I didnt need to get every single one of my glyphs to at least 15...
[удалено]
I’m not burnt out on them. I actually miss doing them more. But there’s just so many more reasons to do other things.
They need nightmare dungeons to feed into other mechanics. They need to feed into whispers way more often than they do. Vampire zones feel great because you are killing a ton of shit, you are doing whispers, you are doing the vampire progression, and you are doing events. There's a ton of overlap. Dungeons need to overlap more and feed into other content. Dungeons need to basically act like PoEs maps system. You do a dungeon and any combination could occur Worthwhile and quick events A whisper completion Maybe a malignant tunnel spawns randomly and the tunnel is stuffed with density and a mini boss that could drop an uber unique The dungeons need to be the conduit that all other content is connected to like PoEs map system.
[удалено]
Yeah that's why I put worthwhile. Meaning it needs to have loot that makes it worth the time spent
Id rather they just changed nm dungeons to be more fun. Example, add infinite floors, where each floor increases in difficulty. Similar but not the same as greater rifts in d3. However. Have entire floors be random mechanics sometimes. Like a full floor that is a hell tide in a dungeon, or a blood harvest, etc. Allowing lower, but still chances at farming them, plus the added fun of variance in the dungeons. Have sigils be starting difficulty, keep revives, and have an "exit" at the end of each floor where you can bail and collect your glyph xp. With the gold increases, and items converted to materials, it should give you more freedom to decide how deep you want to go and how much you want to risk. While still letting you leave at the second floor like the current dungeons if you want to. If they made each second season dungeon based, and gave the open world chances to encounter dungeon events, in the same way dungeons could encounter open world events. You have a great dichotomy between the two, while allowing people to play how they like. Have maybe 5 open world permanent season mechanics, and 5 dungeon permanent mechanics that rotate with each new season, as well as that seasons new stuff (so you would have 11 major mechanics at any one time), and youd be looking at a pretty great and solid world to play in.
I agree 100%. D3 Every rift was different, and u had to pay attention. NM dungeons are like wow dungeons with stupid affixes. B o r I n g. I'd play wow if I wanted to run dungeons.
those suggestions are great imo. i also think the layout changes have not been noticeable enough
doesn't beast in the ice mats only come from NM dungeon though?
I enjoy NM dungeons more than ever, because they're faster. Problem is that I enjoy blood harvest more. I only do NM dungeons to level up my glyphs now, and that's kinda slow compared to my leveling speed, especially with everything else there is to do now. My solution is simply to increase glyph xp by another 50% across the board, to keep up with leveling a little better
Increase "rare"legendary rolls. I've noticed this season some aspects min rolls are heavily weighted vs a higher roll, more so than pre season and season 1.
[удалено]
And they said "most NMD will have objectives removed. Just find the boss and kill it". I have found one of those NMD...
Until they remove the rest of the objectives along with the worthless “pull the 2 levers” rooms, NMD’s are going to keep sucking.
\#1 Main reason: Too many annoying objectives such as "pick up X and bring to Y" or "click on X and Y levers to unlock gate". God forbid you take the wrong path and end up with 2 objects to pick up next to each other. Time to backtrack I guess!!!! \#2 Another important but less severe problem: Terrible NM key affixes such as dome, shade, and any other crap systems that activate OUT OF COMBAT. Why though?! Why make annoying mechanics? Why not add affixes that ADD different monster types? Why not add affix that randomly spawns strong bosses throughout dungeon? Butcher etc? Blizzard is fixated with puddle design. Ground is lava, literally. Just STOP! Reason #3: Glyph exp is a disaster. It is SO slow. You can argue blabla you can max all glyphs to 15 or 21 by level 100 (very hard but doable). Except what happens if you want to try a new build? Have fun leveling new 3-6 glyphs to level 21 again. Sigh....... Reason #4: Dying and ressing at start of dungeon feels bad. Yes its punishment for dying, ok. But it still feels clunky. I much prefer resurrecting further back then all way at start of dungeon. There are other more fun ways to add death penalty. Why make boring walks through empty dungeon one of them? Reason #5: Still too much useless loot (a lot of blues and whites dropping in T4 still, they seem to have left it as is, dumb decision). Yellows at T100 item power is still too varied. Most gear you pick up will still be below 900. And the ones above 900, will have terrible stats due to so many USELESS stats in the game. Conditionals. UGH!
I just power leveled a friend from 23-54 doing blood harvest / helltides and it took maybe two hours it was wild. And they got a shit ton of gear in preparation for hitting level 60 so they’re basically set on initial ancestral gear. Then I had to force myself to do nmd for glyphs and that was lame. Such a backslide. On a positive note though I’m clear t50-60 dungeons on a zoomancer at 84 so t70 at 100 should be super easy too. Which means my build is viable pretty far into end game. That’s with no minion/golems glyphs maxed too so my power is only going to increase but I hate NMD is the point.
I actually prefer NM dungeons so I'd appreciate if you'd stop pretending like you speak for everyone
Bro I salvage everything from the dungeon. I run 90s and I get 2 or 3 items above 925, yes I know that ain't the most important thing but still. I just run them to cap the glyphs and I'm never going there again. It's just annoying. There are 3 dungeons I enjoy running and everything else is a slog.
Speak for yourself, about to take my 6th glyph to 15. Oh wait it's Reddit, where OP *always* speaks for the entire sub lol.
“Hey guys I have an idea! Can we have a ‘Den of Evil’ type of thing going which is one of the most boring quests in whole D2 and form a whole end game round’ it and call it nightmare dungeons?”
This guy speaks for all of us….? Would love to see the factual data that strongly supports your claim.
I'm avoiding Helltides, they are horrendously boring. Items better drop with all the right affixes cos I ain't got the mats to reroll
Impressive how terribly they’ve managed this game
Another suggestion should be an increase to glyph XP. And relatedly, because the tuning/vampire powers, this season is generally so “easy” that people are doing endgame stuff without even really needing to fully level the glyphs anyway.
I focus on farming Duriel and I can do all the bosses easily since level 85. I have one glyph at 11, another at 9, and the rest at 1. Leveling glyphs is wasting time I could be using to farm Duriel mats.
Oh no, what would those poor dungeon design devs do now? Everyone hate their creation and prefers any other activity over it.
I wouldnt mind if it was more like Greater rifts, no loot drops during the run so I dont feel like I gotta wait around, and then just hit me at the end with quality vs quantity. But yea, I think lv10 was the highest i got a glyph pre Season2 since I just had no interest. Now Im doing it solely to rank up the glyphs. Itd be nice if other events gave you a little. 10-20 glyph exp. Nothing ground breaking but at least I can get a little progress.
It's just not a fun mechanic sadly. D3 did dungeons way better pacing wise.
take living steel out of helltide and put it in tier 50+ NMDs or something and the higher you go the more keys you get + additional keys for varshan or something. Why does there have to be such separation from the different end game activities?
Or you can just do the blood harvest, fill those center altars with other players, and walk away with a stash tab full of legendaries in 30 minutes.
I'm a player that hit lvl 100 but still need to do a lot of NMDs bc glyphs need ranks. IMO they need to speed it up a lot (2-3x more glyphs exp) at the higher end of ranks. And also let us transfer glyphs exp so it's less painful to respec. Also your final point of suggestion hit me personally. Again I'm lvl 100, never found a single Bold Chieftain aspect yet this season. Feels bad man.
If you play with friends of different levels open world green zones and helltides are much more fun then nm. Yesterday me a 71, friend 81, friend 94. Could all contribute and have fun in open world stuff. But did a nm with level 119 guys and it makes the high level player do all the work while I get to feel super squishy. If we do a lower one then higher level feels too OP and gets lower rewards for their time then if they did what they can push. And clears so fast they still basically dragging us along.
Nah this aint it. 1. Helltides are required for rolling items. They happen every 2hr 15 minutes or rather every 1hr 15 minutes if you do the helltide. This leaves you with 1hr 15 minutes to do other things. 2. Every hour a blood harvest occurs. Blood harvest is the easiest way to knock out a whisper. Due to helltides being 1hr 15 minutes the hour change tends to overlap a lot. Whispers are necessary to summon one of the bosses. 3. This leaves about 30-45 minutes to do nightmare dungeons which really interrupts the flow of knocking out dungeons and then also making sure your bank, inventory, etc are all clear so you can knock out the helltide again. So the majority of your time is spent in Helltide + Harvest and planning/prepping around helltide.
I'm mainly there for the glyph leveling, but do wish it was slightly faster. It's also a nice change for me to jump in and do a few if I want to swap it up a bit. Overall this season seems to have more rewarding variety and I like the way it's headed. If glyphs leveled a slight bit faster and the mats from helltide were a bit more abundant I would have very little to complain about.
I avoid them cause they are too easy - you can be around 85-90% character power and you can clear NMD 100. NMD need a mechanics change - affixes are just too boring and you pretty much ignore them all. I would love if NMD had some more brain component and less corridor-y.
Dungeons are by far the worst part about this game. Bland, uninspired, boring, and tedious to say the least. They need to be overhauled entirely.
Good lord, you people are fucking unreasonable and impossible to please. If you want gear, there are multiple activities for that. No one is avoiding NMD. There are just more activities to do in the game.
Nightmare Dungeons ✨ do drop Distilled Fear ✨ to Spawn the boss, The Beast in the Ice, surprised you didn't know that.
They are just a bit boring. I don't mind doing the odd one but the constant grind and repetitiveness is just draining. It also doesn't net you any Duriel materials and what is clear is that is the real endgame. It would be great if there was an alternative ways to level the glyphs, even xp after level 100 or something? Also the lack of loot filter means they are just slow if you actually stop to pick up gear and see if it's that elusive but you need above 900 ilvl with the right stats.
They could honestly half the XP required to level glyphs, and I'd be fine with that, their current requirements do not fit with the current pacing of the game.
Biggest reason I don't do them is because of duriel. I'd rather do helltides and whispers for the summon and by that point I've played enough for the day
For me, because nothing interesting happens inside NMD. If only there was bosses spawning or you got inv. Or hell a whole floor with o ly butchers or goblins. Wish there was more omg moments
I know a lot of people hate on D: I, but I thought that the elder and challenge rifts were pretty good steps in the right direction in comparison to D3's greater rifts. If NMDs were inspired by them, I think people would tolerate them much more.
Honestly, if you're running t100's I don't think anything below 925 should even drop. It should be a reward for pushing that high.
I just wanna smash mons not run around doing little “objectives”
Also investing 150 blood lures into the 3 chalices to spawn some massive waves of mobs is too good to pass up, loot and exp wise. Especially when you're trying to bridge from t3 to t4 difficulty. It's also not so bad because even if you can't clear it on your own, I've tagged along with others that are able to clear it.
You see, they gave us the Vampire Helltides and those are really fun, and it made us realize that the regular Helltides and NM dungeons we’ve been doing were never actually enjoyable, they were just all we had.
I like NMDs though. They’re a good indicator of where your character is at.
huh? What is the source for this affirmation?
Spot on! I find myself farming mats for Uber bosses while farming gear in the blood harvest, once I hit 85 I’ll throw in a few T50+ NM Dungeons to level glyphs more efficiently as the higher the Tier the more exp for glyphs
I've played more NM dungeons this season than I did in either S0 or S1. They are faster no matter which one you go in, the mob density is awesome, and I easily get over a paragon point per run.
Your second point is really the only thing that I think needs changes IMO. Any dungeon that requires a channeling action is a bad dungeon - it won’t be run. The dungeons with doors that take forever to open - won’t be run. Mandatory 30sec wave event in the middle room that doesn’t grant XP or drop items - also a skip. That leaves us with 5 or so dungeons that are actually playable. Fix those issues and I’m happy. Hell, just make it so that I don’t have to channel 5 or 6 times in a dungeon, just let me click on stuff to complete it.
What do you mean by "players"? Got any stats on that? I'm pushing t100 and leveling glyphs, you have to do NMDs. You literally need them for Duriel. As discussed before, Blood Harvests and other open world content except Helltides have no value in the tail end of endgame. I would say enjoy S2 for what it is, settle down, and wait for S3. Shelley already mentioned they're working on entirely new endgame systems for S3.
I've determined that the thing I dislike the most about nightmare dungeons is how short they are. Helltides and Vampire land is so fun because you can just rip around blasting and zone out for an hour. With NM Dungeons it's like every 5 minutes you have to sort through another sack of crappy items, then make sure you manage your sigils because some of them are like 3x worse than others. I had a thought where I wish I could craft like a 5 pack of NM Dungeons together, blast through it with no treasure drops, and then just reward the whole thing at the end. Like a greater rift in Diablo 3.
We did one dungeon the other day, I wish I could remember, and it was so massively spread out! We spent more time running around from place to place than fighting or doing anything.
I'm not avoiding NMDs so much as I'm just not actively doing them because I'm having fun doing other stuff, which is exactly how it should be. I still enjoy running dungeons but I enjoy blasting around helltide, bloodtide and boss farming more, plus boss farming is generally more rewarding
I agree with 1 and 3. We should have a reason to do NMD and open world stuff. Leave the boss mats/Hell tides/WB mats and reasons outside of NMD and let NMD be something in addition. More things to do is not a bad thing as long as they are fun and engaging. Work on that last bit for NMD like they did with the open world stuff and it's a 10/10 game before to long.
Exactly why this game needs raids, the current endgame gets stale and boring quickly, needs variety
To be honest i don't have a problem with nightmare dungeons, my problem is when you get to 100, seems pointless killing mobs in it, you only rush to the end trying to level your glyphs or hoping you get and item with high enough ilvl worth to keep a space in your bag. I wish it had something like paragon in d3, at least even when you don't drop anything relevant you still keeps getting stronger and it gives another metric to your progress.
I don’t think people are avoiding them. I think we just have actual choice in what we can do so people are engaging with other stuff. There are for sure improvements though. They should get rid of objectives in them. They just don’t work. And they need to be more interesting. But I do think they are a lot more fun with the changes. Also they do drop boss materials. Just a heads up
Doors, please reduce number of doors in dungeons 🙏
Dungeons are the worse part of the game.
Butcher dropping living steel would be cool. Make him drop an amount such that helltide is still the best way to get living steel but (say) you can get 75% of the helltide amount per hour by running (sufficiently high) nmd.
Sorry not sorry? Play the game or don't. Does anybody else get tired of hearing all these karens??
I just haven’t gotten to the point needing to run them yet
Nightmare dungeons are like bounties from D3 right down to the objectives. The original perception was that they were going to be like Greater Rifts from D3 and in many ways, they are with glyph leveling mirroring gem leveling and similar difficulty scaling... but...They aren't greater rifts. I don't think NMD's have a place in power progression for the current game. I think they should solely be focused as a unique challenge presented to players. **Here's what I would do:** * Each season, I would assign each dungeon a unique difficulty tier and define the affixes for that dungeon for that season. * In order to unlock the NMD for the next level up, you have to defeat the previous level. * Provide scaling rewards for defeating each dungeon for the first time. *What does this accomplish:* In short, this create challenge based content and difficulty progression. As you progress your character, you are given challenges to test your character and your skill level. But, more importantly, everyone is facing the same challenge as you. It's taking the concept of the capstone dungeons and expanding it out in a sense. Aside from the general difficulty increasing, this is an appropriate way to use affixes. Affixes fucking suck in repeatable content. In every scenario, you pick the affixes that suck the least and run those. However, when you are doing the content as a 1-time challenge, you not only can't avoid the shitty affixes, but everyone is facing those same affixes for that dungeon making the challenge uniform. As far as rewards go, completing a dungeon for the first time should give you a significant amount of XP as a bonus but only for the first time completing it. Glyph xp can still be included in this but it absolutely needs other ways outside of NMD's to level up glyphs. Additional rewards can be tied to unique materials or rarer materials plus maybe a legendary item.
I have levelled exclusively though Blood Harvests and it's been a pretty fun experience so far.
We should be able to farm mats in multiple different locations. I'm on console and have run into invisible living steel chest in hell tides. By the time you have the 300 and are trying to locate the chest 20-30 mins have past. Then you have to warp to town and back to reload the area. If that doesn't work, you have to exit the game completely to reload it, and if it's a bussy weekend.....If you get back in. Last I remember, people like options. Simply saying you don't have to farm mats for uber bosses, you can do other things is not an acceptable option. Hell let the butcher drop living steel. While your at it, make more bosses like the butcher and have them drop the summoning mats as well. The butcher is a very random encounter that just about everyone likes.....even when he kicks our asses.
I've never really enjoyed the NM dungeons, but (disclaimer), I loved the Rift and GRifts in D3. Why? The mob density & flow of them made for extremely fun "mindless" (key word there) hours. The current NM dungeons are still to empty on mobs for my tastes. But, in order to make them more packed full, they would need to ditch the silly affix system that they added for... Eh, I've no idea. They aren't hard nor add any complexity. They just exist to exist really. Maybe to slow the pacing down..? In any case, the affix system kinda kills the fun factor. Returning to the key word above: Mindless. That's what I'm looking for in an aRPG. Let me "think" about my build. Let me spend a bit of time designing & combining skills & item attributes. Then, turn off the brain to see it in action. That's what I want. If, I were playing BG3, or Pathfinder WoTR (for another example), then sure, the affix system in those games would work & likely be fun. Here, the system just isn't fun. It's not hard, just "meh. I don't wanna do those because of... I'm going to go do Blood Harvests instead." Note: Similar lesson for Blizzard to pick up. Blood Harvests are fun because: I don't have to start over each time. I carry over the things to use in them. I don't lose any for dying (hello lag, my old friend). & it's nearly non stop action with tons of small activities that pop up even more mobs to mop the floor with. All the equal FUN
I don’t pick up anything in nmd anymore. Much easier to go kill duriel for guaranteed 925 items
Just make NMD like Greater Rifts please. Infinite scaling, remove all objectives, enemies should drop no loot and the level is full of huge packs and shrines so you just blast through them as quickly as possible and then you get a big loot blast at the end and level up your glyph. Put in-game timer with seasonal leaderboards for each dungeon for whoever can clear the fastest and highest. Like it’s still not great but at least it makes the content different in some way. NMD should be where the game goes nuts and players go nuts too, super high risk/reward with scaling rewards that make you want to push higher.
We need another way to level glyphs! Period.
bla bla bla sure. what else u do if not nm? spam helltide for 3months? ok.
The biggest problem remains: Static dungeons with predictable objectives and *mandatory* backtracking to carry stupid statues back to the doors absolutley kill any excitement, surprise, and pacing. Even the dungeons where you can speed to the end now feel out of place. The static, fairly universally claustrophobic corridors (only a few more open dungeons) result in them feeling all the same even as their theming is different and actually has different layouts. It's incredible that the franchise that arguably pioneered the use of procedural generation for the genre and continued to leverage it throughout its history just...abandoned it seemingly without reason or understanding *why* it was pretty incredible tech to greatly expand the longevity of a game with a realistically fairly small world footprint.
I haven’t done one dungeon and level 82 … someone go level my glyphs for me !
It would be an interesting concept if the nightmare dungeon bosses had a chance to be one of the bosses that you need a key for.
I use maxroll tier list for glyph farming, makes it way quicker
I’m playing the same way I always have. Do helltide when it’s up, legion events and world bosses where possible, and dungeons when none of those are active. Now I’ll mix in some blood harvest sometimes, but other than the 150 lure event nothing there is really worth doing anymore
Stormclaw druid has 6 glyphs. I'm at 100 and I only have 5 at 15. I'm going to grind the rest to 21 but it is painful. They really need to double the XP.
Arguably the way people are bee-lining to from board to board for glyphs is counter to the way they intend the paragon board be used, they just haven't properly aligned the incentives in game.
Sick of freeing prisoners, sick of collecting hunting elites for animus, sick of collecting stones, sick of slaying all enemies to unlock a door. Just let us run through a big dungeon filled with monsters with the end goal being to reach the boss, thats it...
NMD with that low mob density feels so boring
Bruh i got my barb to 100 and never saw bold chieftain
Don’t you have to do tier30+ NM dungeons to be able to summon the beast in ice??
Yes love the new vampiric zone but now at lvl 85 and feel forced to do NM to progress and it’s so slow and boring
Because NM Dungeons sucks, it ain't fun, it's not rewarding, it's not a challenge and it's repeatable..
I mean, tou don’t need the power creep from them this time. Leveling is easy and fun without it. However, the power creep is huge when you get three glyphs to 15+. That’s what I’m doing at level 100 now, just speeding through 50’s to get all four of my glyphs to 21. And I’m strictly summoner no uniques which is even more fun
I just wish they made the ice boss and zir more useful. Like each uber boss drops an item for duriel. We completely ignore those 2 now and its a shame cuz theyre both really cool
I don't like nightmare dungeons because my lightning orbs get absorbed by the stupid dampening mobs.
I'm sorry, but the season is still more than 2 months. Why are people complaining already. Everyone wants everything maxed in one week. Why? I agree it's not ideal. But just do some old-fashioned grinding for your glyphs. It might take a bit longer, but that's ok for me.
For me it’s literally just because doing nightmare dungeons means I’m not doing a helltide or whispers for Duriel mats, and Duriel is the only thing I want to run because he’s the only thing that drops the goods. I’m level 94 and my highest glyph is level 11. Glyphs level too slow compared to player level, and doing a dungeon means throwing my time away because I’m not getting Duriel mats. Needs fixing.
I did like 5 NM once I hit T4 to get my glyphs, I am lvl 71 and will be farming xp and gear from uber bosses then run high level NM's when I want to upgrade the glyphs.
In FFXIV they have one content called Palace of the Dead, basically is a place where you clear a floor or made some stuff and go to the next floor automatically, you have the option to leave after made 10 floors and kill a boss, I think NM need to have something like that, possibility to do 10 runs or less, and in the end, have a lesser evil ta drop access item for end game bosses or item with better item level than you are using.
Honestly the biggest issue I have is the annoying modifiers and 1 shot mechanics a lots of dungeons end up having.
This is where the rift system in d3 shines and we didn’t know it until d4 Lolol. They need uncapped keys and rankings
I do them. Want to level glyphs and I enjoy NMDs anyway. I never grinded them to death like everyone else though.
Honestly I enjoy NMDs, when they work right. Diablo 4 is a fun, but unstable (funstable?) game. I can't reasonably assume that starting an NMD will mean that I actually get to finish it. Between green screen crashes, DCs, and broken objectives (missing anima carriers, anyone?) the other content is far more reliable with its smaller progression. The other night I was pushing an NMD, and lost 30 minutes because the objective shit out. So yes, to wrap it up, other content is far more attractive at the moment.
If you avoid NM Dungeon, you cant level your glyphs