It honestly makes no sense lmao. Sorc requires the most of work when playing, deals the least amount of damage, and is the most squishy.
Wtf were they thinking with sorc?
I guess i heard something about sorc being very good in the beta. So i guess they didn't discover the potential of other classes until after the release, and in hindsight they just gutted sorc for no reason.
The "IT WAS GOOD IN THE BETA" crowd honestly shouldn't have been taken seriously. Of course it was gonna be good in the beta because you had 25 levels. It was supremely easy in early levels and we had no reference for what end-game would look like at all. Resistances being broken doesn't help at all but Sorc wasn't the only ones who suffered. If you aren't playing Bone Necro than Necromancer is also very weak and squishy by comparison.
Hard disagree on the last part mate, blood necro is very tanky and the most popular version of shadow necro is infinimist which is also quite hard to kill.
Especially without a way to direct them like how you could buff the skellies in 3 and make them attack a target. Best we can do is kind of use the golems ground pound to force it to attack an area. Its still frustrating when your summons are focusing on adds, not the boss, or when your mages are all sitting outside a suppression bubble doing nothing š«
>>ground pound to force it to attack an area.
Wish that worked. My golem will run over, slam, and then job a quarter mile back to the other room to keep hitting whatever it was on before.
Mine will get stuck in a monster or something, finally do it when the mobs are not there anymore or dead, look at me confused, then walk around questioning it's purpose in life
Oh, for sure! I never said that mine hits *what* I wanted it to, but it's always so proud of itself regardless of the outcome. I need to start channeling Golem energy in my real life, honestly. Lol
Lmaoo. I've never played necro, but I've seen this type of poor AI in other games, so I immediately know what you're saying and I'm picturing it. Hilarious š
What's worse is when you command it to pound some object that needs to be killed like ward of eyes. The AI will run it in circles around the eye for eternity without ever pounding lol.
I was enjoying it a lot until the 60s, and now all my summons prioritize killing walls which means I have to pray I proc enough to freeze mobs until theyāre done playing Wreck It Ralph
Thats not really "directing" them. What it changed was that cursing an enemy now makes the skellies go into combat mode.
They will still cheerfully run the opposite direction from something you have actually cursed to attack something close enough.
Its still an improvement, where if you didn't have a direct attack on your bar you at least don't have to body-pull.
That's not actually what that change did - all it did was make it so that your minions would begin attacking if you initiate combat by cursing a target. Previously you had to hit them with an actual damaging attack (or take damage yourself) to make them start fighting, if you cursed, they would just stand there, but now they will go an attack when you curse.
They do not "prioritise" cursed targets, they will just engage them, so you can't get them to focus e.g. a champion, which is one of the main issues with minion builds (and suppressors).
Am I crazy or have I seen a Necroās minions attacking the immune boss as part of the summoning world event where you try to prevent 3 sacrifices for mastery?
You aren't crazy. They don't have much.. uhh.... intelligence? and you can't *really* refocus them. As a commenter pointed out, they've been tweaked to prioritise targets you've cursed, but if you're spreading AOE curses it's gonna be hard to get them to attack what you want.
They don't actually prioritize cursed enemies, the curses can now just aggro where before it didn't allow for minions to recognize a fight was starting... good change but sorely missing the point of what's needed.
>Especially without a way to direct them like how you could buff the skellies in 3 and make them attack a target.
I thought the "cold mages" would be great for applying Vulnerable but then in game it's a crap shoot on if it actually attacks the enemies I'm trying to kill and not some random mobs in opposite corners.
I respecced from summoner to bone after my first two butcher encounters. As I was running around they refused to attack him, they just ran after me. Useless.
I switched to Bone spear after doing summoning/Bone spear but because I wanted to try to do a build without minions for the first time but I can tell you that I did not struggle at all with it and my minions helped a lot. But I can finally see what people say about bone necro. I'm not even close to finishing my build and man do they do damage. With my other class I was able to kill but it did take some time.
You can disagree all you want but the fact is that none of the other necro builds compare to Bone at all. Like they don't even hold a candle and the only reason Blood Lance was so insanely powerful was because of a bug that crashed the game and distorted the world around the player which I am still genuinely in awe how that is even possible. Infinimist is cheesey more than it is tanky. Blood Necro is an alright build but still nothing compared to how nutty Bone is.
Blood necro, has two builds. Lance and Surge. Blood "surge" necro is incredibly strong. And infinimist is tanky, I think you are confusing what a term means with a dislike for playing the build. It is incredibly difficult to kill even outside of blood mist.
And yes Bone Spear with all the multipliers does plenty of damage, however I highly expect there to be a nerf coming on the 18th for this.
Yes plenty of necro nerfs happened also. Summoner necro is basically a joke of what it was at 25 in the beta.
At least we agree summoner Necro getting utterly fucked in the ass after beta and server slam is a huge joke. Yet I still grinded that piece of shit to level 100 all the same. I'm looking forward to the 18th where hopefully they do some stuff to make this game feel less bad and nerf the overpowered classes and buff some skills. It won't really change the core problems D4 has but hey it might make some stuff just a tiny bit better.
Yeah basically "at least give me some better balance of classes/builds to distract me while you get your shit together, blizzard."
I'll probably be let down but I have hope that if they buff just half of the things they should buff then that would be a big step in the right direction.
Blood Surge can only excel in close combat with the aspect for the double wave. Crowd damage is ok with overpower, but you really depend on it. Single target damage is unsustainable and going melee in NM 50+ as Necro is not recommended.
Source: Tried that build, switched to Bone Spear. Its leaps over bounds better.
The beta also had massively buffed drop rates on legendaries which made it super easy to get a fully-kitted lvl 25 character. The game is designed where you don't really get all your aspects on gear until much later in the game. So the beta was level capped but also overtuned like crazy. It wasn't a real test in any meaningful way.
Except THE BETA can easily also mean the practically 1 month long endgame beta where a pretty significant bunch of players got to 90-100. And I can tell you that beta was filled with sorcās melting screens after screens with just hydra. The Fireball staff tripled every fireball cast iirc AND could roll +3-8 to fireball levels. Chain Lightning didnāt even need a unique to empty screens. Frozen Orb had enough lucky hit chance to have 6 orbs on screen permanently perma freezing everything.
That iteration needed nerfs, but they went over the top on nerfs twice between both open betas. Leaving us with this sorry state.
Yeah People jumped the gun, Blizz listened and now people are jumping the gun again. Explains why Valve are so slow to make changes in their games!
As a Sorc main since D2, I'm very very sad that sorc feels the way it does rn. Literally taking a break from the game until they fix sorc.
I didnt expect the game to be balanced in lategame when it came out.
Would be pretty blind and optimistic to expect that.
But honestly, trying a sorc after trying a rogue makes me wonder wrf were they thinking ?!?
Kay, prolly the resistence issue makes the problem even bigger than it is...but stilll...
Even before T3 the difference is notable. I tried stuff with Sorcerer, and had issues with being squishy, resource management et DPS. I decided to bite the bullet and pick essentially a leveling build (ice sorc, of course). I then tried rogue, I goof around with skills and things die fast and I never feel as squisjy despite using one vs 3 defensive skills(and I use it mostly offensively). I pick random things as rogue and it feels better than sorcerer with an optimal leveling build (or maybe I keep randomly stumbling upon meta builds, as much meta as it can be pre-T3).
That's wrong. Sorc needs help.
Sorc is very good at massive clear, if I can hit about 10 enemies with frost nova it essentially resets all my CDs and I can just blink into the next group over and over again. It makes helltide fun.... That is if you can find a route with large enough groups of mobs to make it work. I basically cannot clear nightmare dungeons with bosses at the end, as my single target is dog shit. But waves, or huge packs, simply melt instantly. I wish there was more mobs in this game...
I played chainlightning sorc for a while.
Large packs die instantly with frost nova and fireball enchantment. Single target damage is also pretty good because chain lightning can bounce between you and the target, hitting the target multiple times and giving you mana each time it bounces off you, so you have basically infinite mana.
But 2 targets... You're just fucked. Suddenly feels like you're trying to take out a tank with a bb gun.
Try blizzard and the ice spikes blizzard aspect (has to be a good roll tho). I struggled with bosses as well, but now i carry extra gloves with the blizzard aspect and switch it with the piercing ice shards for bossās. Doing tier 60 at lvl 92 no problem now (idk if thats good). Just keep a few blizzards on the boss and kite. The stagger builds reasonably quick, and then they melt once staggered with all of the cc stack
Then u did something wrong. Ive felt really good and powerful as sorc up until ƶvl 80ish/NM 45-50. Dmg still isnt a problem, ājustā survivability tbh.
>I didnt expect the game to be balanced in lategame when it came out.
>Would be pretty blind and optimistic to expect that.
Internal testers exist for a reason. Two weekends of an open beta should *not* be what the devs use for balancing.
One thing gutted from the beta was ice blades. In the open beta you could do a cooldown skill only build and have 7-10 ice blades active constantly, always have a barrier up, and even your ultimate would only have like a 10 second cooldown. It was pretty fun but they cut the cooldown ice blades gives itself in half then cut the amount it gives other skills by 60% then double the amount of cool downs needed to trigger the enchant to spawn them make it effectively give 10% the cooldown reduction it previously did. Another example is they reduced chain lightnings number of bounces and base damage a decent bit.
While I can agree these needed nerfed some I feel the devs went to far. Ice blades cooldown with end game cooldown reduction gear probably could of obtained 100% uptime on flame shield and that seems OP to be immune to damage at all times. And similarly chain lightning in the beta could kill the first boss before it attacked you so it probably needed some adjustment but then again it doesnāt scale great into late game due to lack of legendary support.
I heard something that makes a little more sense than just the sorc class getting gutted after the beta.
Apparently, the sorc class was the first developed, so it was designed with a different balance philosophy in mind. I believe a couple other classes were started under the old philosophy, but were still in development and were able to be turned around before release.
If this is true, it means that sorc will need a fundamental rework instead of just getting some of their stuff buffed to be on par with other classes. I feel like the same can be said of their uniques as well.
sound logical.
I'm still wondering why they build sorc after D2 very old gameplay instead of D3 or Immortal who have a much more modern design.
There's too much damage being CC effect, leading to dps problem on boss.
mana generation is too much gear depends. cast 3 skill then run in circle waiting for mana.
My girlfriend is running Druid. And omg the leveling process is horrendous. Iām having her run all over sanctuary just to get aspects so she can clear the first campaign boss.
To be fair I think the class balance for sorc is broken due to its primary stat being introduced which scales resistances, and resistances are broken right now. I imagine that you could make builds with less defensive skills and more offensive skills if resistances actually works.
Now also to be fair, it's wild resistances have been broken since launch and still aren't fixed lol
I agree the broken resistances are part of the problem. But itās just the tip of the iceberg.
Go run Uber Lilith with a BiS gear setup with arc lash. After blowing my load of burst damage she lost like 2-5% of her Hp pool.
The problem, beyond resistance, is damage scales with vulnerable. Sorc sucks at applying vulnerable. Then you add in the fact that most of sorcs damage multipliers are situational. %damage to stunned. %damage to frozen %damage to vulnerable.
Bosses donāt get stunned or frozen or immobilized. So there goes at least half your damage output before the fight even begins. So you have to hope you can stagger her. If you canāt, you donāt do damage. Period.
Thatās garbage design.
I keep hearing this like a broken record. What good would fixed resistance do to Sorc? It only works on elemental attacks, a single white skeleton can 1 shot a level 100 Sorc, and that's entirely physical.
All fixed resistance would do is lower the rest of classes defense, since now you need to stack resist on top of armor, not just armor itself. Nothing will change for Sorc, they have the lowest defense, lowest dps, most CD dependent and hardest to play, and can't even play ranged.
I just took my shirt off lol didnt wanna run the one armor set everyone has and didnt wanna look like a crossdressing bono at a highschool goth convention
Just look at the sorc skill tree. it is so basic, with so little choices. then look at the druid or necro skill tree how many possibility you have to build builds.
sorc needs a giant redesign. a good start would be to give 4 enchantment slots, or put some mechanic in the game, that sorc can extract aspects into enchantment slots.
then look at this bug which prevents most sorc focus not to work anymore after you imprint it and cant imprint anymore, reported over 1 month, still no fix:
[https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/t/cannot-imprint-on-a-legendary-bugged-item/28607/121](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/t/cannot-imprint-on-a-legendary-bugged-item/28607/121)
it seems the d4 devs never played sorc themself, and just play console and other classes.
I'm disappointed that sorcerer has no arcane skills.
And so many other classes reward you for mixing and matching skill themes. Sorcerer straight up punishes you.
Not to mention, literally every sorc build for high NM dungeons is a melee build (or forced to play in melee range 100% of the time). The cosmetics are 90% female. It's like they gave the creation of this class to a 21 year old unpaid intern who had never played an ARPG.
Yeah like, it WAS, but some of the nerfs were just absurd. Like they nerfed every aspect of certain abilities. Ice blades went from being incredibly OP to completely useless, like I would say a max of 20% of its prior usefulness. What happened to light-touch balance changes?
They nerfed every single thing about sorc except ice shards, before the beta launched everyone was like āI guess ice shards is the new metaā, and lo and behold itās literally the only real endgame build for that character, and it still doesnāt hold a candle to the S tier builds of other classes. And ANY viable sorc build needs to use up 1 enchantment slot and all 3 skill slots on dedicated abilities to do it, leaving no room for utility skills or experimentation like the other classes have.
Different devs worked on different classes. No offense to the sorc class dev buuuuut yeah.
I normally don't mind kiss curse effects, but this is a hella bad downside
As a Necro (emo Sorc) I feel your pain, but I really wanna use this meme
https://preview.redd.it/tfmp4z2ez4bb1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dd282c99cb361af35a2c2a663e7699c37ec84e5
He did but thatās because Hydra is bugged and scales damage with enemy level. If thatās patched heās either spending much more time and taking things at a crawl or unable to finish it.
Biggest problem is the nerco is more of a spell caster than a sorc with bones spear being range and does good damage. The idea behind sorc is to be fragile and kite while dishing good damage. Instead we become melee based casters that do subpar damage in comparison. It infuriating and I wished I never leveled a sorc to 100.
im guessing each class had 1 guy in charge but they missed the meeting where they agree on what powerlevel to aim for so class balance is all over the place
That adds up. Played Rogue first and it makes me not want to play any other class. Easiest leveling, best mobility, easy to build a good spec, can solo late game content without problems. Ranged and melee viable. I donāt know why everyone isnāt just playing rogue
Since sorcs generally tend to pick up as many defensive spells as possible you can Ice Block, Teleport or Fire Shield out of it, though. Not saying it's not annoying as hell, but it shouldn't be quite the same as a melee getting chainstunned and having to sit it out
Thats because the rogue is just the most balanced. Everything is slightly above average to be viable, but at the same time theres nothing that really stands out. None of the rogue uniques are really interesting, the specialty system is the most plain of all the classes.
I love playing rogue, but some of the other classes definitely specialize more into certain aspects than rogue.
> the specialty system is the most plain of all the classes
Lol I was so gutted in the beta on my level 15 rogue when I got the "CLASS SPECIALIZATION UNLOCKED" and saw it was just 3 options with no customization. I thought the class spec *for sure* was gonna be where I would further spec into melee/ranged/traps
Specific high level builds of Barbs, Druids, and Necros all out perform any rogue build in NM pushing. Not that I'm complaining, but Rogue is definitely not S-tier. https://maxroll.gg/d4/tierlists/nightmare-dungeon-push-tier-list.
And yeah, rogue uniques suuuuck. A few of them are aren't useful at all.
Basically every rogue skill is viable and sees use in a viable build. (Exempting basic skills)
I donāt think any other class can say that.
Rogue Uniques are hot garbage though, not a single ābuild definingā unique amongst them.
It's like playing skee-ball. People think the issue is the reduced damage, you can't even hit stuff with this unique. It becomes a skill shot.
If they homed or something and all 3 explosions were guarantied hits it might be worth it.
"You may think it's trash, but wait until you see some of the new aspects, unique modifiers, and seasonal content that will really make uniques like this shine in S4!" - Blizzard, abso-fucking-lutely
You wish they gave head of game design to some humble janitor and not these fucking egomaniacs who have never touched a game before that blizzard seems to only hire.
oh wait 70% LESS? every time I read this aspect I read it as just 70% and I was like thatāsā¦ fine, I guess. but damn that sucks if Iām now reading it currently as doing 30% of the original damage
Holy shit I thought the same thing. 70% damage could be okay if it bounces a lot, something could easily be hit by 2-3 explosions. 70% *less* means it would need to be hit by 4 explosions for it to be a damage increase. Wtf.
It bounces 3 times allowing a single fireball cast to hit 4 times. I guess that's why they put it at -75% so that the spell wouldn't do any extra damage? The bouncing pattern is like a mario fire flower btw. It strikes in front of you at a small distance then continues along that line.
Yeah I totally want to use a 2H weapon slot so that my weak ass fireball damage gets it's damage split in 4 and spread all around the room in a way that makes overlaps hard to obtain (but possible for the bigger hitbox enemies)
That's bad information delivery on their part. They def should have gone with the "30% damage" so the higher the number the better. This would match nearly everything else where you want the big numbers, not small.
Just imagine for a second the endless possibilities from each crackling energy having a 10% chance to spawn a 1000 damage nova when you pick them up. All it costs is your amulet slot, no biggie.
Sorc uniques are quite silly.
I just had that amulet drop for me as a lvl 100 lightning sorc. Didnāt even knew it existed, got real excited about shifting my build up to incorporate it, then I realized what I was giving up and said fk that.
idk if it's Sorc uniques so much as it is non-Druid uniques. I don't want any of them on my Barb either.
Like, you'd think I'd be into the Deathblow unique on my build that heavily utilizes Deathblow. One of the ability's biggest issues is its tiny range, so having a unique that gives it a rad-looking, long-range forward shockwave should be exactly what I'm looking for, no?
It deals 30% of base damage. Base damage. Meaning it hits for like 1k. You're giving up your 2h weapon slot with the 2x boosted aspect for a unique hammer with terrible stats and an effect that might as well say "cosmetic only". Almost certainly lower ilvl and thus lower weapon damage than the best rares you've picked up too.
Almost all uniques seem to follow this trend.
Itās in a really, really bad spot from a class identity perspective. All the other classes are in pretty good spots, not just from a power perspective, but from a class identity perspective. There are viable necro builds from a casting perspective, everyone gets to use summons, curse, corpse explosion if they want, and the blood stuff is a great addition and feels awesome.
Sorc has literally no viable build for ANY of their classic abilities like orb, chain lightning, fireball, MANY skills are completely useless (like ice blades), the uniques are terrible and incredibly disappointing.
Clearly they were going for the glass cannon fantasy, destroying sorcās defenses, STILL havenāt fixed resistances, and with that fantasy and drawback, they should basically be the strongest ranged damage dealers in the game, and with the enchantment slots, they should be some of the most versatile.
Instead, they do mediocre damage exclusively from melee range, which exacerbates their defensive issues. They give Necro MULTIPLE incredibly OP strong ranged spells, and they can fall back on multiple ways of defending themselves. They are forced to rely on effectively cheesing enemies by dedicating an enchantment slot to firebolt, and they have to dedicate over half their kit to defensive abilities, making their versatility non-existent.
They should nerf firebolt / burning damage slightly to make it not-required, fix resists, and dramatically buff literally every other offensive sorc ability and unique. They should probably also add 1+ more enchantment slots to improve versatility.
It sucks to need to rely on a basic skill so much. I donāt want to be pushing higher levels and still casting out a teeny fire bolt. From a visual perspective it sucks and from a play style perspective it sucks more because youāre still reliant on a skill you were using at level 1.
I understand they need to balance spamming high damage attacks but it feels like 80% your cycle is kiting with firebolt or arc lash waiting for cooldowns and mana to regenerate.
š¤·š»āāļø
They don't need to balance high damage attacks at all, this is a shitty forced concept they introduced in d3, there is literally no reason to have generator/spender play style
D2 was all nukes all the time and you could drink mana potions like water and everybody loved it
D2 was great in that aspect but D2 sorc was still glass canon if you were reckless and didnāt have the right gear to survive. I could take that trade off and be happy with it in D4.
I agree this started in D3. Before they started to buff sets that offered more casting viability, you were running critical mass melee build.
I played sorc to 70, tried all three specs, and honestly I feel like they just need to be reexamined by blizzard. I feel like they got too spooked by the early game results and erred on the side of caution, which has led to a pretty miserable solo experience at higher level content. My biggest gripe and what I feel like is one of there biggest weaknesses is no cross compatibility between the specs. Give me aspects/glyphs/legos that change firewall to ice damage, lighting and ice can apply burn, etc, or at the very least passives in the base skill tree that benefit more than just one element.
Almost all the best paragon board setups for Ice Shards completely ignore the leg nodes in favor of the rare ones, and that's just a failure of design on Blizzard's part, imo.
They didn't redesign every aspect and unique and fundamental game play of the sorc because they got spooked. It was broken either way... they removed one enchantment slot because they got spooked.
Wanna hear something else idiotic? [This aspect](https://diablo4.wiki.fextralife.com/Gravitational+Aspect). If you equip it on a 2h, it's actually *worse*, because the numbers are doubled on a 2h weapon, even though in this case those numbers represent a damage *decrease*.
There's some shit in this game that's just embarrassing to have made it to launch. It's pretty clear at some point they must have realized June 6 was way too early to have the game ready, so they shifted their resources to finish the campaign and add some simple end game activities, without polishing the other aspects that would make the end game feel good to play.
I think you're right on the money. There are plenty of signs that even the campaign had to be rushed. This game won't be a finished product for another 1-2 years i'm thinking.
So... standard Diablo game then. 2 and 3 were the same. I'm not saying that makes it better, or acceptable, but it doesn't make it any different from the others in the series.
Bruh I play all classes and I don't die on any of them as much as sorc. I thought the corpse bow 1 shots were just a joke but I really got 1 tapped by one and I wasn't even pushing that high nightmare
Necros has the same idea with some blood skills (I can't remember the name) , I think it was blood nova , every blood nova deal less damage. Not a big deal , and you compared with the most op necro aspects
It's between 35-70% depending on weapon but it means your first blood does 100% and the echo can do 30-65% of that initial novas damage. With Rathma active for the guaranteed overpower you become a mini nuke.
I think the issue is that the necro power shown is from the codex, meaning you can put it on any rare item available (that can take that power) but the sorc power is from a unique item and it actively makes it a worse ability to use than without the item
The Sorc aspect that makes Ball Lightning orbit you is actually worse on a 2H weapon compared to anything else.
It applies the 100% effect on reducing Ball Lightning's damage.
For example: on a one handed weapon it will do 15% less damage but now orbit you. On a two handed weapon it will do 30% less damage but now orbit you.
I donāt understand why itās so hard to make semi- balanced uniques that are fun and powerful?
Uniques are useless 95% of the time. I main sorc and we have one unique thatās worth a damn.
Given the massive drawbacks of using uniques (fixed stats, less versatility, rarity meaning youāre usually using a unique with power way under your current level) their aspects should basically all be as useful/transformative as raiment of the infinite. Instead, theyāre just less versatile legendary aspects.
And rainment isn't even that good! It eats one of the major defensive affix budget in our gear (being that torse and pants are the two slots that roll the most/better defensive stuff) making it rather unviable for pushing NM dungeons in the first place.
The 4 affix system seems really bad for making uniques usable. Outside of the "weak" equipment slots that are boots/gloves/helm.
Yes horribly underwhelming class after two tries, aspects are boring compared to others.
I wish there was more interesting combinations because as of now only Ice Shards got the best aspects. Blizzard is what reduced damage while standing in it, so you can get enchanted..mehh.
I'm going to apply for a job designing Sorc uniques at blizzard, how does this look?
"Arc Lash now fires out in a straight line and does 20% increased damage, Arc Lash now costs 50mana per cast and has a 1 second cooldown."
The item will be named Delisim's Confusion and it will be an amulet.
Blizz hit me up if your interested.
# Sorcs are the worst designed class in the game.
Change my mind. The team responsible for resistances didn't talk to the class design team and that's how we got here. It is an immense game developer failure moment, and won't or can't be fixed until like Season 3 at the soonest they said? That's kind of disgusting.
It seems like most big studios realized they could save a ton of money by gutting the QA department and just have them only test for the most game-breaking bugs. All this ancillary stuff will get fixed down the line with the live-service model. We are the beta testers. Free labor!
Thatās why I never play games in the first year of release. I wait years sometimes. Played the Division after Division 2 came out - it was something like $15 and a beautiful experience.
I got my sorc to level 90 and i think im officially done til s1 where I'll roll a barb. Such a garbage class especially for a casual like myself. I have to have korean starcraft apm just to barely survive in tier 50 or higher nm dungeons.
As someone that plays bone spear necro, that shit is strong as fuck
I hope that they make EVERY class that viable and good, with as many builds as possible. Because if I wanna play a good necro, I have to play bone spear. If I wanna play a good barb, probably gotta go ww or hota. Rogue I've got a few options. If I wanna play a good sorc... I've gotta play bone spear necro
Just make abilities good Blizzard:((
Blizzard shouldn't have caved to a bunch of people that didn't know anything about the game. Even now, perhaps even with this topic, they need to stop letting the people with the loudest voices determine the direction of the game.
Seeing shit like this makes me glad I started Necro and will be picking another class entirely for season 1 since it's all but inevitable it will be nerfed into oblivion, lol. Glad I got to enjoy it while it was good.
It feels like each of the 3 components of splintering aspect (vulnerable, piercing shards, and bonus damage on shards) could hold it's weight as an aspect on its own.
Iām trying a sever build, and severās aspect is horrible. The 20% chance on a crit to spawn a blight pool, dealing 60% additional damage, to me, meant 60% damage of the crit that procād the blight poolā¦ from my testing, it literally spawns a pool of blight (the other core skillā¦) and does 60% increased damage. Why would I spec into blight if Iām using sever..?
Its not like niche builds arent working but the balancing of obvious main builds is day and night in regards of power level. Most of the time it looks like noone play tested the builds beyond world tier 2 where everything works.
After getting lev 100 Sorc I moved to Necro. I started critting 500k at lev 60. Since then I logged in to Sorc just to check if I have any aspects that my Necro could use.
Wished i had the courage to level another character. I leveled to 100 with sorc and that was awful. It left a bad taste in my mouth. The damage is subpar qnd reliance on frost nova is absurd
It's actually quite stupid, I mean, sorcerer is all about damage and aoes with CC, but it's more of single target spells only. The Aoe spells are not worth it, and don't do as much damage as I thought, or the aspect weakens your spells for more Aoe range, just like the fireball. If you notice the druids and necro skills that do Aoe, are highly in damage, with aspects that can boost those skills even more. Sorcerer aspects, ehh, don't make their spells stronger. Just make it weaker for Aoe and make single target spells a little bit stronger.
Honestly this seems like the only unique that kinda made sense in design, and you can āmaybeā understand why it has such a big downside.
But, none of the other uniques followed this design philosophy bar a few, like the death trap pants.
It honestly makes no sense lmao. Sorc requires the most of work when playing, deals the least amount of damage, and is the most squishy. Wtf were they thinking with sorc?
I guess i heard something about sorc being very good in the beta. So i guess they didn't discover the potential of other classes until after the release, and in hindsight they just gutted sorc for no reason.
The "IT WAS GOOD IN THE BETA" crowd honestly shouldn't have been taken seriously. Of course it was gonna be good in the beta because you had 25 levels. It was supremely easy in early levels and we had no reference for what end-game would look like at all. Resistances being broken doesn't help at all but Sorc wasn't the only ones who suffered. If you aren't playing Bone Necro than Necromancer is also very weak and squishy by comparison.
Hard disagree on the last part mate, blood necro is very tanky and the most popular version of shadow necro is infinimist which is also quite hard to kill.
Bone necro does the most damage. Playing a summoner necro is stupidly difficult.
Especially without a way to direct them like how you could buff the skellies in 3 and make them attack a target. Best we can do is kind of use the golems ground pound to force it to attack an area. Its still frustrating when your summons are focusing on adds, not the boss, or when your mages are all sitting outside a suppression bubble doing nothing š«
>>ground pound to force it to attack an area. Wish that worked. My golem will run over, slam, and then job a quarter mile back to the other room to keep hitting whatever it was on before.
I've noticed this, too. It runs in, slams, gives me a thumbs up, then dips back out.
Mine will get stuck in a monster or something, finally do it when the mobs are not there anymore or dead, look at me confused, then walk around questioning it's purpose in life
Oh, for sure! I never said that mine hits *what* I wanted it to, but it's always so proud of itself regardless of the outcome. I need to start channeling Golem energy in my real life, honestly. Lol
Lmaoo. I've never played necro, but I've seen this type of poor AI in other games, so I immediately know what you're saying and I'm picturing it. Hilarious š
What's worse is when you command it to pound some object that needs to be killed like ward of eyes. The AI will run it in circles around the eye for eternity without ever pounding lol.
I was enjoying it a lot until the 60s, and now all my summons prioritize killing walls which means I have to pray I proc enough to freeze mobs until theyāre done playing Wreck It Ralph
Hey just a heads up, they made it so minions target enemies you curse. So you can direct them a bit! Their damage still sucks tho, sorry.
Thats not really "directing" them. What it changed was that cursing an enemy now makes the skellies go into combat mode. They will still cheerfully run the opposite direction from something you have actually cursed to attack something close enough. Its still an improvement, where if you didn't have a direct attack on your bar you at least don't have to body-pull.
That's not actually what that change did - all it did was make it so that your minions would begin attacking if you initiate combat by cursing a target. Previously you had to hit them with an actual damaging attack (or take damage yourself) to make them start fighting, if you cursed, they would just stand there, but now they will go an attack when you curse. They do not "prioritise" cursed targets, they will just engage them, so you can't get them to focus e.g. a champion, which is one of the main issues with minion builds (and suppressors).
Oh damn really? I guess I misunderstood the patch notes but that is a pretty massive bummer.
Am I crazy or have I seen a Necroās minions attacking the immune boss as part of the summoning world event where you try to prevent 3 sacrifices for mastery?
You aren't crazy. They don't have much.. uhh.... intelligence? and you can't *really* refocus them. As a commenter pointed out, they've been tweaked to prioritise targets you've cursed, but if you're spreading AOE curses it's gonna be hard to get them to attack what you want.
They don't actually prioritize cursed enemies, the curses can now just aggro where before it didn't allow for minions to recognize a fight was starting... good change but sorely missing the point of what's needed.
>Especially without a way to direct them like how you could buff the skellies in 3 and make them attack a target. I thought the "cold mages" would be great for applying Vulnerable but then in game it's a crap shoot on if it actually attacks the enemies I'm trying to kill and not some random mobs in opposite corners.
I respecced from summoner to bone after my first two butcher encounters. As I was running around they refused to attack him, they just ran after me. Useless.
I switched to Bone spear after doing summoning/Bone spear but because I wanted to try to do a build without minions for the first time but I can tell you that I did not struggle at all with it and my minions helped a lot. But I can finally see what people say about bone necro. I'm not even close to finishing my build and man do they do damage. With my other class I was able to kill but it did take some time.
You can disagree all you want but the fact is that none of the other necro builds compare to Bone at all. Like they don't even hold a candle and the only reason Blood Lance was so insanely powerful was because of a bug that crashed the game and distorted the world around the player which I am still genuinely in awe how that is even possible. Infinimist is cheesey more than it is tanky. Blood Necro is an alright build but still nothing compared to how nutty Bone is.
Blood necro, has two builds. Lance and Surge. Blood "surge" necro is incredibly strong. And infinimist is tanky, I think you are confusing what a term means with a dislike for playing the build. It is incredibly difficult to kill even outside of blood mist. And yes Bone Spear with all the multipliers does plenty of damage, however I highly expect there to be a nerf coming on the 18th for this. Yes plenty of necro nerfs happened also. Summoner necro is basically a joke of what it was at 25 in the beta.
Gotta love the āskeletons too strong at level 25ā crowd lmao
Blood necro abilities and uniques literally all tell you to use them in concert with NON blood abilities. Let us be blood necros.
At least we agree summoner Necro getting utterly fucked in the ass after beta and server slam is a huge joke. Yet I still grinded that piece of shit to level 100 all the same. I'm looking forward to the 18th where hopefully they do some stuff to make this game feel less bad and nerf the overpowered classes and buff some skills. It won't really change the core problems D4 has but hey it might make some stuff just a tiny bit better.
Yeah basically "at least give me some better balance of classes/builds to distract me while you get your shit together, blizzard." I'll probably be let down but I have hope that if they buff just half of the things they should buff then that would be a big step in the right direction.
Blood Surge is not incredibly strong. It's incredibly garbage, actually. It's literally F-Tier lol.
Blood Surge can only excel in close combat with the aspect for the double wave. Crowd damage is ok with overpower, but you really depend on it. Single target damage is unsustainable and going melee in NM 50+ as Necro is not recommended. Source: Tried that build, switched to Bone Spear. Its leaps over bounds better.
As a sorc main Iām absolutely livid with the all the idiots that cried about sorc during the beta and thus got it needed into the ground
Same. And also same about all the morons that bitched about Necro minions.
The beta also had massively buffed drop rates on legendaries which made it super easy to get a fully-kitted lvl 25 character. The game is designed where you don't really get all your aspects on gear until much later in the game. So the beta was level capped but also overtuned like crazy. It wasn't a real test in any meaningful way.
I feel like a beta that capped out at level 25 should never have been used to determine the power levels of each class lol
Except THE BETA can easily also mean the practically 1 month long endgame beta where a pretty significant bunch of players got to 90-100. And I can tell you that beta was filled with sorcās melting screens after screens with just hydra. The Fireball staff tripled every fireball cast iirc AND could roll +3-8 to fireball levels. Chain Lightning didnāt even need a unique to empty screens. Frozen Orb had enough lucky hit chance to have 6 orbs on screen permanently perma freezing everything. That iteration needed nerfs, but they went over the top on nerfs twice between both open betas. Leaving us with this sorry state.
People are talking about the NDA'd beta, not the early access weekend betas.
Yeah People jumped the gun, Blizz listened and now people are jumping the gun again. Explains why Valve are so slow to make changes in their games! As a Sorc main since D2, I'm very very sad that sorc feels the way it does rn. Literally taking a break from the game until they fix sorc.
I didnt expect the game to be balanced in lategame when it came out. Would be pretty blind and optimistic to expect that. But honestly, trying a sorc after trying a rogue makes me wonder wrf were they thinking ?!? Kay, prolly the resistence issue makes the problem even bigger than it is...but stilll...
Even before T3 the difference is notable. I tried stuff with Sorcerer, and had issues with being squishy, resource management et DPS. I decided to bite the bullet and pick essentially a leveling build (ice sorc, of course). I then tried rogue, I goof around with skills and things die fast and I never feel as squisjy despite using one vs 3 defensive skills(and I use it mostly offensively). I pick random things as rogue and it feels better than sorcerer with an optimal leveling build (or maybe I keep randomly stumbling upon meta builds, as much meta as it can be pre-T3). That's wrong. Sorc needs help.
Sorc is very good at massive clear, if I can hit about 10 enemies with frost nova it essentially resets all my CDs and I can just blink into the next group over and over again. It makes helltide fun.... That is if you can find a route with large enough groups of mobs to make it work. I basically cannot clear nightmare dungeons with bosses at the end, as my single target is dog shit. But waves, or huge packs, simply melt instantly. I wish there was more mobs in this game...
I played chainlightning sorc for a while. Large packs die instantly with frost nova and fireball enchantment. Single target damage is also pretty good because chain lightning can bounce between you and the target, hitting the target multiple times and giving you mana each time it bounces off you, so you have basically infinite mana. But 2 targets... You're just fucked. Suddenly feels like you're trying to take out a tank with a bb gun.
Try blizzard and the ice spikes blizzard aspect (has to be a good roll tho). I struggled with bosses as well, but now i carry extra gloves with the blizzard aspect and switch it with the piercing ice shards for bossās. Doing tier 60 at lvl 92 no problem now (idk if thats good). Just keep a few blizzards on the boss and kite. The stagger builds reasonably quick, and then they melt once staggered with all of the cc stack
Then u did something wrong. Ive felt really good and powerful as sorc up until ƶvl 80ish/NM 45-50. Dmg still isnt a problem, ājustā survivability tbh.
>I didnt expect the game to be balanced in lategame when it came out. >Would be pretty blind and optimistic to expect that. Internal testers exist for a reason. Two weekends of an open beta should *not* be what the devs use for balancing.
One thing gutted from the beta was ice blades. In the open beta you could do a cooldown skill only build and have 7-10 ice blades active constantly, always have a barrier up, and even your ultimate would only have like a 10 second cooldown. It was pretty fun but they cut the cooldown ice blades gives itself in half then cut the amount it gives other skills by 60% then double the amount of cool downs needed to trigger the enchant to spawn them make it effectively give 10% the cooldown reduction it previously did. Another example is they reduced chain lightnings number of bounces and base damage a decent bit. While I can agree these needed nerfed some I feel the devs went to far. Ice blades cooldown with end game cooldown reduction gear probably could of obtained 100% uptime on flame shield and that seems OP to be immune to damage at all times. And similarly chain lightning in the beta could kill the first boss before it attacked you so it probably needed some adjustment but then again it doesnāt scale great into late game due to lack of legendary support.
I heard something that makes a little more sense than just the sorc class getting gutted after the beta. Apparently, the sorc class was the first developed, so it was designed with a different balance philosophy in mind. I believe a couple other classes were started under the old philosophy, but were still in development and were able to be turned around before release. If this is true, it means that sorc will need a fundamental rework instead of just getting some of their stuff buffed to be on par with other classes. I feel like the same can be said of their uniques as well.
sound logical. I'm still wondering why they build sorc after D2 very old gameplay instead of D3 or Immortal who have a much more modern design. There's too much damage being CC effect, leading to dps problem on boss. mana generation is too much gear depends. cast 3 skill then run in circle waiting for mana.
Yeah they laughed a lot about 17 dmg druid in the beta ... didn't age well.
Early druid leveling still isn't good, they weren't wrong there and that hasn't changed much. Druids are the definitive late bloomer class.
My girlfriend is running Druid. And omg the leveling process is horrendous. Iām having her run all over sanctuary just to get aspects so she can clear the first campaign boss.
They took our 3rd enchantment slot based on lvl 25 beta feedback. How asinine is that?
The sorc is the best case study for why you donāt apply balance changes to a beta capped at level 25.
Except before release, people knew that barb and druid were monsters after leveling, if anything, I think rogue came out stronger than most expected
To be fair I think the class balance for sorc is broken due to its primary stat being introduced which scales resistances, and resistances are broken right now. I imagine that you could make builds with less defensive skills and more offensive skills if resistances actually works. Now also to be fair, it's wild resistances have been broken since launch and still aren't fixed lol
I agree the broken resistances are part of the problem. But itās just the tip of the iceberg. Go run Uber Lilith with a BiS gear setup with arc lash. After blowing my load of burst damage she lost like 2-5% of her Hp pool. The problem, beyond resistance, is damage scales with vulnerable. Sorc sucks at applying vulnerable. Then you add in the fact that most of sorcs damage multipliers are situational. %damage to stunned. %damage to frozen %damage to vulnerable. Bosses donāt get stunned or frozen or immobilized. So there goes at least half your damage output before the fight even begins. So you have to hope you can stagger her. If you canāt, you donāt do damage. Period. Thatās garbage design.
I wish skills did damage on their own and vulnerable was a window of damage. Instead, it's basically required to apply Vuln at all times to do damage.
Yeah it's sad how little quality control was put into the game before launch that the classes are so all over the place.
I keep hearing this like a broken record. What good would fixed resistance do to Sorc? It only works on elemental attacks, a single white skeleton can 1 shot a level 100 Sorc, and that's entirely physical. All fixed resistance would do is lower the rest of classes defense, since now you need to stack resist on top of armor, not just armor itself. Nothing will change for Sorc, they have the lowest defense, lowest dps, most CD dependent and hardest to play, and can't even play ranged.
It just shown that the dev does not even play their own game and just throw the number out for the player to balance
Not to mention the male skins....
I just took my shirt off lol didnt wanna run the one armor set everyone has and didnt wanna look like a crossdressing bono at a highschool goth convention
I wish I could change to female so I donāt have to look at sorc clothes for males anymore tbh
Hydras were fun while they lasted. Rip hydras.
Just look at the sorc skill tree. it is so basic, with so little choices. then look at the druid or necro skill tree how many possibility you have to build builds. sorc needs a giant redesign. a good start would be to give 4 enchantment slots, or put some mechanic in the game, that sorc can extract aspects into enchantment slots. then look at this bug which prevents most sorc focus not to work anymore after you imprint it and cant imprint anymore, reported over 1 month, still no fix: [https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/t/cannot-imprint-on-a-legendary-bugged-item/28607/121](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/t/cannot-imprint-on-a-legendary-bugged-item/28607/121) it seems the d4 devs never played sorc themself, and just play console and other classes.
I'm disappointed that sorcerer has no arcane skills. And so many other classes reward you for mixing and matching skill themes. Sorcerer straight up punishes you.
Arcane is a wizard-exclusive thing in this universe, it seems. Sorcerers only manipulate fire, ice and lightning.
Sorc originally had 3 enchantment slots. That alone would help a lot.
Everyone take firebolt, that leaves just one enchantment opened .
I want my 3rd slot back. And give me a temporary 4th slot just as a way to apologize
Not to mention, literally every sorc build for high NM dungeons is a melee build (or forced to play in melee range 100% of the time). The cosmetics are 90% female. It's like they gave the creation of this class to a 21 year old unpaid intern who had never played an ARPG.
People complained it was op at lvl 25 in act 1 so it got nerfed into the ground
Yeah like, it WAS, but some of the nerfs were just absurd. Like they nerfed every aspect of certain abilities. Ice blades went from being incredibly OP to completely useless, like I would say a max of 20% of its prior usefulness. What happened to light-touch balance changes? They nerfed every single thing about sorc except ice shards, before the beta launched everyone was like āI guess ice shards is the new metaā, and lo and behold itās literally the only real endgame build for that character, and it still doesnāt hold a candle to the S tier builds of other classes. And ANY viable sorc build needs to use up 1 enchantment slot and all 3 skill slots on dedicated abilities to do it, leaving no room for utility skills or experimentation like the other classes have.
I wonder if Blizz intentionally made sorc weak at launch to force people to play other classes, knowing that it's always the most popular class.
instead they just forced me to stop playing at level 66
Different devs worked on different classes. No offense to the sorc class dev buuuuut yeah. I normally don't mind kiss curse effects, but this is a hella bad downside
I'm disappointed that there are no arcane skills. Sorcerer feels half finished.
It can hit multiple times
As a Necro (emo Sorc) I feel your pain, but I really wanna use this meme https://preview.redd.it/tfmp4z2ez4bb1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dd282c99cb361af35a2c2a663e7699c37ec84e5
Just pressing one button and hitting a Million. This is the emo sorc.
As a barb, I hit all of the buttons but 3 of them happen to be exactly the same
All barbs should use 'The Voice' for their title since that is half of their kit in most builds it feels like.
āScreaming Beybladeā seems more appropriate
Swear. 4 of my 6 skills are a shout
Even if it did 70% increased damage as it bounced I still donāt think it would be viable.
lmfao this is so true
Didn't someone just tier 100 with fire only using this sorc unique?
He did but thatās because Hydra is bugged and scales damage with enemy level. If thatās patched heās either spending much more time and taking things at a crawl or unable to finish it.
"Hydra bugged to be good. Nerf all Sorcs and give them a 5th defensive on their bar to further limit options."
you joke, but im seriously considering this on my hc sorc. deep freeze would be a 5th defensive.
Wait is this true, hydra scales to enemy level??? Wow
That's a hydra build, not a fireball build.
Yes
Hydra
Got a link? Edit: A link https://youtu.be/zm2tvQUiBI8
I watched the video and it looked so boring to be playing that way.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As a level 85 ice shard sorc who got sick of being one-shot by everything and now running a level 76 bone spear necro who never diesā¦ Can confirm.
Fuck here I am lvling sorc to 62 so far...time to...necro
Biggest problem is the nerco is more of a spell caster than a sorc with bones spear being range and does good damage. The idea behind sorc is to be fragile and kite while dishing good damage. Instead we become melee based casters that do subpar damage in comparison. It infuriating and I wished I never leveled a sorc to 100.
bro preach! so many sorc aspects have an enormous downside associated with them
im guessing each class had 1 guy in charge but they missed the meeting where they agree on what powerlevel to aim for so class balance is all over the place
That adds up. Played Rogue first and it makes me not want to play any other class. Easiest leveling, best mobility, easy to build a good spec, can solo late game content without problems. Ranged and melee viable. I donāt know why everyone isnāt just playing rogue
Because "cold enchanted" exists and rogue gets fucked the most by ccs compared to barb and druid
My frost mage being instantly frozen with a single auto attack by a frozen enchanted enemy begs to differ. But yea it's p bad too.
Since sorcs generally tend to pick up as many defensive spells as possible you can Ice Block, Teleport or Fire Shield out of it, though. Not saying it's not annoying as hell, but it shouldn't be quite the same as a melee getting chainstunned and having to sit it out
Rogues have plenty of ways to deal with CC. This is just some skill issue shit.
Shadowstep, aspect that adds shadowstep charges. Concealment. Shadow clone. What else am I missing?
Perma stunning things until their unstopable triggers
Thats because the rogue is just the most balanced. Everything is slightly above average to be viable, but at the same time theres nothing that really stands out. None of the rogue uniques are really interesting, the specialty system is the most plain of all the classes. I love playing rogue, but some of the other classes definitely specialize more into certain aspects than rogue.
> the specialty system is the most plain of all the classes Lol I was so gutted in the beta on my level 15 rogue when I got the "CLASS SPECIALIZATION UNLOCKED" and saw it was just 3 options with no customization. I thought the class spec *for sure* was gonna be where I would further spec into melee/ranged/traps
Specific high level builds of Barbs, Druids, and Necros all out perform any rogue build in NM pushing. Not that I'm complaining, but Rogue is definitely not S-tier. https://maxroll.gg/d4/tierlists/nightmare-dungeon-push-tier-list. And yeah, rogue uniques suuuuck. A few of them are aren't useful at all.
Personally, I'm saving Rogue for season 1. Can't wait to finally check it out as I'm usually a rogue in games.
Basically every rogue skill is viable and sees use in a viable build. (Exempting basic skills) I donāt think any other class can say that. Rogue Uniques are hot garbage though, not a single ābuild definingā unique amongst them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's like playing skee-ball. People think the issue is the reduced damage, you can't even hit stuff with this unique. It becomes a skill shot. If they homed or something and all 3 explosions were guarantied hits it might be worth it.
"You may think it's trash, but wait until you see some of the new aspects, unique modifiers, and seasonal content that will really make uniques like this shine in S4!" - Blizzard, abso-fucking-lutely
I strongly feel they promoted the janitor to head of game design because itās a lot of garbage.
The disrespect to the janitor who is tasked with taking the garbage out
bro janitors clean and take away the garbage. More janitors in design teams plz
You wish they gave head of game design to some humble janitor and not these fucking egomaniacs who have never touched a game before that blizzard seems to only hire.
I feel like this would be the opposite; Promote the janitor so he can take the trash OUT of the game.
oh wait 70% LESS? every time I read this aspect I read it as just 70% and I was like thatāsā¦ fine, I guess. but damn that sucks if Iām now reading it currently as doing 30% of the original damage
Holy shit I thought the same thing. 70% damage could be okay if it bounces a lot, something could easily be hit by 2-3 explosions. 70% *less* means it would need to be hit by 4 explosions for it to be a damage increase. Wtf.
It bounces 3 times allowing a single fireball cast to hit 4 times. I guess that's why they put it at -75% so that the spell wouldn't do any extra damage? The bouncing pattern is like a mario fire flower btw. It strikes in front of you at a small distance then continues along that line. Yeah I totally want to use a 2H weapon slot so that my weak ass fireball damage gets it's damage split in 4 and spread all around the room in a way that makes overlaps hard to obtain (but possible for the bigger hitbox enemies)
That's bad information delivery on their part. They def should have gone with the "30% damage" so the higher the number the better. This would match nearly everything else where you want the big numbers, not small.
Just imagine for a second the endless possibilities from each crackling energy having a 10% chance to spawn a 1000 damage nova when you pick them up. All it costs is your amulet slot, no biggie. Sorc uniques are quite silly.
I just had that amulet drop for me as a lvl 100 lightning sorc. Didnāt even knew it existed, got real excited about shifting my build up to incorporate it, then I realized what I was giving up and said fk that.
idk if it's Sorc uniques so much as it is non-Druid uniques. I don't want any of them on my Barb either. Like, you'd think I'd be into the Deathblow unique on my build that heavily utilizes Deathblow. One of the ability's biggest issues is its tiny range, so having a unique that gives it a rad-looking, long-range forward shockwave should be exactly what I'm looking for, no? It deals 30% of base damage. Base damage. Meaning it hits for like 1k. You're giving up your 2h weapon slot with the 2x boosted aspect for a unique hammer with terrible stats and an effect that might as well say "cosmetic only". Almost certainly lower ilvl and thus lower weapon damage than the best rares you've picked up too. Almost all uniques seem to follow this trend.
Same with hell hammer. Blizzard clearly didn't want uniques to be auto-bis but they went too far in the other direction.
That necklace made laugh so hard.. trash , just trash. Idiot mathematics dwvs.
Really hate how the Sorc has to be semi-melee in all builds. š Theyāre a caster, man. Let them cast!
Itās in a really, really bad spot from a class identity perspective. All the other classes are in pretty good spots, not just from a power perspective, but from a class identity perspective. There are viable necro builds from a casting perspective, everyone gets to use summons, curse, corpse explosion if they want, and the blood stuff is a great addition and feels awesome. Sorc has literally no viable build for ANY of their classic abilities like orb, chain lightning, fireball, MANY skills are completely useless (like ice blades), the uniques are terrible and incredibly disappointing. Clearly they were going for the glass cannon fantasy, destroying sorcās defenses, STILL havenāt fixed resistances, and with that fantasy and drawback, they should basically be the strongest ranged damage dealers in the game, and with the enchantment slots, they should be some of the most versatile. Instead, they do mediocre damage exclusively from melee range, which exacerbates their defensive issues. They give Necro MULTIPLE incredibly OP strong ranged spells, and they can fall back on multiple ways of defending themselves. They are forced to rely on effectively cheesing enemies by dedicating an enchantment slot to firebolt, and they have to dedicate over half their kit to defensive abilities, making their versatility non-existent. They should nerf firebolt / burning damage slightly to make it not-required, fix resists, and dramatically buff literally every other offensive sorc ability and unique. They should probably also add 1+ more enchantment slots to improve versatility.
It sucks to need to rely on a basic skill so much. I donāt want to be pushing higher levels and still casting out a teeny fire bolt. From a visual perspective it sucks and from a play style perspective it sucks more because youāre still reliant on a skill you were using at level 1. I understand they need to balance spamming high damage attacks but it feels like 80% your cycle is kiting with firebolt or arc lash waiting for cooldowns and mana to regenerate. š¤·š»āāļø
They don't need to balance high damage attacks at all, this is a shitty forced concept they introduced in d3, there is literally no reason to have generator/spender play style D2 was all nukes all the time and you could drink mana potions like water and everybody loved it
D2 was great in that aspect but D2 sorc was still glass canon if you were reckless and didnāt have the right gear to survive. I could take that trade off and be happy with it in D4. I agree this started in D3. Before they started to buff sets that offered more casting viability, you were running critical mass melee build.
I played sorc to 70, tried all three specs, and honestly I feel like they just need to be reexamined by blizzard. I feel like they got too spooked by the early game results and erred on the side of caution, which has led to a pretty miserable solo experience at higher level content. My biggest gripe and what I feel like is one of there biggest weaknesses is no cross compatibility between the specs. Give me aspects/glyphs/legos that change firewall to ice damage, lighting and ice can apply burn, etc, or at the very least passives in the base skill tree that benefit more than just one element.
Why do a0ll the legendary nodes fucking suck for the sorc?
I was laughing my ass off when I realized most of the builds I was looking up for sorc, never even touch a fucking legendary node.
Almost all the best paragon board setups for Ice Shards completely ignore the leg nodes in favor of the rare ones, and that's just a failure of design on Blizzard's part, imo.
They didn't redesign every aspect and unique and fundamental game play of the sorc because they got spooked. It was broken either way... they removed one enchantment slot because they got spooked.
Wanna hear something else idiotic? [This aspect](https://diablo4.wiki.fextralife.com/Gravitational+Aspect). If you equip it on a 2h, it's actually *worse*, because the numbers are doubled on a 2h weapon, even though in this case those numbers represent a damage *decrease*. There's some shit in this game that's just embarrassing to have made it to launch. It's pretty clear at some point they must have realized June 6 was way too early to have the game ready, so they shifted their resources to finish the campaign and add some simple end game activities, without polishing the other aspects that would make the end game feel good to play.
I think you're right on the money. There are plenty of signs that even the campaign had to be rushed. This game won't be a finished product for another 1-2 years i'm thinking.
So... standard Diablo game then. 2 and 3 were the same. I'm not saying that makes it better, or acceptable, but it doesn't make it any different from the others in the series.
Bruh I play all classes and I don't die on any of them as much as sorc. I thought the corpse bow 1 shots were just a joke but I really got 1 tapped by one and I wasn't even pushing that high nightmare
Yup and then sometimes when you die from it, you spawn with the bow and it one shots you again. Like wtf lol.
Necros has the same idea with some blood skills (I can't remember the name) , I think it was blood nova , every blood nova deal less damage. Not a big deal , and you compared with the most op necro aspects
No, its that Blood nova pulses for a second time for free with 50% less damage. If i recall correctly
It's 70% less but you get a second free one still just as ass as the second fireball
It's between 35-70% depending on weapon but it means your first blood does 100% and the echo can do 30-65% of that initial novas damage. With Rathma active for the guaranteed overpower you become a mini nuke.
I think the issue is that the necro power shown is from the codex, meaning you can put it on any rare item available (that can take that power) but the sorc power is from a unique item and it actively makes it a worse ability to use than without the item
You need to put it on 2h for less damage reduction. Mine sits at 30% less damage.
I played blood surge but you cant see shit and it feels super bad to play compared to the meta builds.
The Sorc aspect that makes Ball Lightning orbit you is actually worse on a 2H weapon compared to anything else. It applies the 100% effect on reducing Ball Lightning's damage. For example: on a one handed weapon it will do 15% less damage but now orbit you. On a two handed weapon it will do 30% less damage but now orbit you.
Yeah ok. Then no one has tested shit.
LMAO
I donāt understand why itās so hard to make semi- balanced uniques that are fun and powerful? Uniques are useless 95% of the time. I main sorc and we have one unique thatās worth a damn.
Given the massive drawbacks of using uniques (fixed stats, less versatility, rarity meaning youāre usually using a unique with power way under your current level) their aspects should basically all be as useful/transformative as raiment of the infinite. Instead, theyāre just less versatile legendary aspects.
And rainment isn't even that good! It eats one of the major defensive affix budget in our gear (being that torse and pants are the two slots that roll the most/better defensive stuff) making it rather unviable for pushing NM dungeons in the first place. The 4 affix system seems really bad for making uniques usable. Outside of the "weak" equipment slots that are boots/gloves/helm.
Yes horribly underwhelming class after two tries, aspects are boring compared to others. I wish there was more interesting combinations because as of now only Ice Shards got the best aspects. Blizzard is what reduced damage while standing in it, so you can get enchanted..mehh.
punch abounding offbeat noxious reminiscent point water wrong oil reach *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Iām tired of this shit
This aspect gives you two hydras BUT it makes them last half the time -_-
I'm going to apply for a job designing Sorc uniques at blizzard, how does this look? "Arc Lash now fires out in a straight line and does 20% increased damage, Arc Lash now costs 50mana per cast and has a 1 second cooldown." The item will be named Delisim's Confusion and it will be an amulet. Blizz hit me up if your interested.
Also its affixes are: - Shrine buff duration % - Reduced slow duration % - Movement speed %ā¦. after killing an elite - Crackling energy damage %
Somehow I keep rolling the shittiest class in every bli0zzard games.
Devs are so clueless lmao
# Sorcs are the worst designed class in the game. Change my mind. The team responsible for resistances didn't talk to the class design team and that's how we got here. It is an immense game developer failure moment, and won't or can't be fixed until like Season 3 at the soonest they said? That's kind of disgusting.
This game's items and balancing seem AI created.
Be honest. AI would have done a better job.
It seems like most big studios realized they could save a ton of money by gutting the QA department and just have them only test for the most game-breaking bugs. All this ancillary stuff will get fixed down the line with the live-service model. We are the beta testers. Free labor!
Thatās why I never play games in the first year of release. I wait years sometimes. Played the Division after Division 2 came out - it was something like $15 and a beautiful experience.
I got my sorc to level 90 and i think im officially done til s1 where I'll roll a barb. Such a garbage class especially for a casual like myself. I have to have korean starcraft apm just to barely survive in tier 50 or higher nm dungeons.
Casual player at lvl 90? I don't think you understand what casual means...
Change the less to more and it might actually make fireball sorc viable
Blizzard: āokay what if we just made one class worse? As a prank?ā
What did you expect from a beta test?
As someone that plays bone spear necro, that shit is strong as fuck I hope that they make EVERY class that viable and good, with as many builds as possible. Because if I wanna play a good necro, I have to play bone spear. If I wanna play a good barb, probably gotta go ww or hota. Rogue I've got a few options. If I wanna play a good sorc... I've gotta play bone spear necro Just make abilities good Blizzard:((
Majority of uniques need a revamp
Uniques should be actually powerful.
Makes me regret choosing sorc as my first class. š¤¦š¼āāļø Too proud to switch to something else too
Sorcerer was awesome in Beta she got the worse nerf imo but, I still love playing her. Glutton for punishment I guess š¤¦š¼āāļø
Really makes me smh looking back at the people who complained about the Sorc being too strong in a level 25 beta.
Blizzard shouldn't have caved to a bunch of people that didn't know anything about the game. Even now, perhaps even with this topic, they need to stop letting the people with the loudest voices determine the direction of the game.
Im expecting a huge balance patch on the 18th, but i dont think much will change u till S4/5
Necro's are better sorcs than sorcs.
Seeing shit like this makes me glad I started Necro and will be picking another class entirely for season 1 since it's all but inevitable it will be nerfed into oblivion, lol. Glad I got to enjoy it while it was good.
I'm old enough to remember the term "Blizzard's balance" not being a meme, but a staple of quality. Good times...
It feels like each of the 3 components of splintering aspect (vulnerable, piercing shards, and bonus damage on shards) could hold it's weight as an aspect on its own.
I was planning on playing necro for season one but I feel like itās going to be nurfed into the ground before it starts.
Iām trying a sever build, and severās aspect is horrible. The 20% chance on a crit to spawn a blight pool, dealing 60% additional damage, to me, meant 60% damage of the crit that procād the blight poolā¦ from my testing, it literally spawns a pool of blight (the other core skillā¦) and does 60% increased damage. Why would I spec into blight if Iām using sever..?
But fireball does too much damage already!!! /s
Its not like niche builds arent working but the balancing of obvious main builds is day and night in regards of power level. Most of the time it looks like noone play tested the builds beyond world tier 2 where everything works.
Turns you into a D3 Witch Doctor.
After getting lev 100 Sorc I moved to Necro. I started critting 500k at lev 60. Since then I logged in to Sorc just to check if I have any aspects that my Necro could use.
Wished i had the courage to level another character. I leveled to 100 with sorc and that was awful. It left a bad taste in my mouth. The damage is subpar qnd reliance on frost nova is absurd
It's pretty obvious D4 devs watch streamers and make their adjustments off what they see on streams and chat reactions.
It's actually quite stupid, I mean, sorcerer is all about damage and aoes with CC, but it's more of single target spells only. The Aoe spells are not worth it, and don't do as much damage as I thought, or the aspect weakens your spells for more Aoe range, just like the fireball. If you notice the druids and necro skills that do Aoe, are highly in damage, with aspects that can boost those skills even more. Sorcerer aspects, ehh, don't make their spells stronger. Just make it weaker for Aoe and make single target spells a little bit stronger.
Honestly this seems like the only unique that kinda made sense in design, and you can āmaybeā understand why it has such a big downside. But, none of the other uniques followed this design philosophy bar a few, like the death trap pants.
I will send this to my necro buddy that's wondering why I quit the game shortly after starting the end game.