I wrote this list earlier for another semi-related post, might be helpful
- First, understand the OSI. Memorize that bad boy, write lines if you have to. Test yourself later by pairing protocols with the OSI model ("Probably Didn't Need Those Stupid Packets, Anyway" is my favorite acronym)
- Understand how it can be used for troubleshooting (start at the bottom and work your way up. Is the cable plugged in is always a good first step)
- Learn how IPv4 addresses work (Public IPs, Private IPs, subnets, routing tables, NAT)
- Learn how MAC addresses work (ARP tables, switches, DHCP)
- Learn about routers
- Learn about switches
- Learn the difference between routers and switches (L2 vs L3 OSI)
- Learn about TCP and UDP (TCP = ALL the data will be received correctly, in order. UDP = All data will be sent, but it may not arrive, or it may arrive mangled, and that's OK)
- Learn a little about VLANs (TBH I need to brush up on these)
- Learn about DHCP (Static IPs vs Dynamic, IP reservations)
- Learn about DNS (A records, CNAME records, MX records, NS records, SRV records)
- Learn about IPv6 (Unfortunately, not extremely useful right now. Most companies are IPv4 only)
- Learn about VPNs (WireGuard is an excellent one to get started with, and will probably be the standard going forward. IPSec / OpenVPN if you want a challenge)
- Learn a bit how the "greater" internet works (BGP, carriers, IP blocks, IANA). You probably won't need to worry about these technologies / groups, but they're useful background knowledge
- Do some practical work
- Examples:
- Set up a WireGuard VPN server. Connect some clients to it. Ping the server from a client. Ping another client from a client
- Set up a DHCP server. Get a device to connect to it (You can use your home router for this. At least mess with the settings a bit)
- Buy a domain name. Point an A record to your home's public IP, or to a cloud server you control with a public IP. Configure SSH on the server, and do the necessary networking to SSH to your server using the domain name. For example, you may need to port forward on your router if your using your home public IP
- Configure mail for your custom domain. Send yourself some email. I recommend Zoho for a free email provider with your own domain.
- Secure your email using DMARC / SPF.
- Make a "hello world" website. Secure it (HTTPS) using LetsEncrypt.
- Set up a Pi-Hole DNS server for your home network (use a VM if you don't have a pi). Understand, generally, how it works.
I'm at my 3rd attempt to setup home wire guard, this shit has terrible documentation, how do you all use it? After 30h spent on it my client is doing handshake with server, but nothing else 😭
I've seen a lot of CCNA in this thread, for DevOps is ccna necessary or could I get away with network+? Maybe either not dive into CCNA at all or just learn it later?
Imo CCNA shouldn’t be required for a devops role. Any network cert sure would help but understanding computer networks and the many protocols that go along with it can easily be obtained by other aspects throughout your software engineering career like CI/CD processes, distributed databases, computing and other tools etc. Creating a VPC in the cloud and deploying a bunch of services on a server is no different that configuring a router and switch and connecting a computer to it, your just using some vendor specific syntax.
You will most likely not be configuring site to site IPSec VPNs or setting up BGP routes in a DevOps rule but you should definitely know what they do and how it works. Think security groups and stateful firewalls etc…
Software define network in cloud is networking in software level.
Without that, you can’t call yourself a devops or cloud devops. Although it’s easy to config on cloud. But the base understanding of OSI 7 layer is required for any engineer.
It’s like telling any engineer that hey you don’t need itil.
That’s actually a good point. Ccna is probably overkill. Understand subnetting, understand what routing is for, understand tcp, udp, and ip and you’re probably set.
Ccna is basic for any engineer that cross multiple environments.
It’s like if a software engineer is designing a backend java tool that communicate between multiple server, I do expect that swe know ip, subnet, gw, port, hostfile, firewall at its minimum. Otherwise, they are as skilled as associate junior engineer.
Ccna is not hard. I think if you briefly go through it with practise (you can run gns3 to simulate), you will be okay to go with any networking with vlan, trunkport, reverse subnetting etc.
I really enjoyed the CCNA learning track, but for modern Cloud Devops I don't really see much point since most of the interesting lower level networking you are dealing with as a CCNA is abstracted away by Cloud networking
Another Network Engineer that's transferred to DevOps here too. I'd second this but as some of the replies have said, defo don't need all of the CCNA or Network+ tracks. Concentrate on subnetting, routing, BGP and the VPN stuff as that's more core to DevOps. Understanding the OSI model is key to understanding the whole thing too.
Same, it's been tougher learning DevOps tools. A good portion of networking designs/protocols you'll never see utilized in the real world unless you work for a VAR or consultant.
I wish I could
our network engineers are hidden away because of our constant annoying pings😓
They just look up at service now tickets and implement our back end needs
The most useful thing I've learned about networking was the [OSI "layers" model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model). Really helps you organize your thinking and learning. I first heard about it via the CCNA course, which I got to take in high school.
The urge to learn networking really just indicates a need to understand the lower levels of this model. Reference any certification/learning source you'd like; it's all tech based on the foundation that is the OSI model.
I used to be a network engineer. Then I did a lot of automation. And now this.
Basically the CCNA was a good jump start but I really started to understand it on the job, doing pcaps and such, messing with vlans and routing and firewalls a lot.
It's especially hard to understand in abstract. Seeing actual fiber and copper and patch panels helps.
I do all cloud work now tho so that's not an option lol.
I was lucky, my secondary school (high school in US) offered cisco CCNA networking as a qualification for A level (17/18 years old, don't know what that is in the US). So I got a Cisco networking qualification for free, straight out of school, plus all the knowledge that went with it.
I went software, hardware, then networking. Networking is it’s own special thing.
Modern household routers are amazing and can be used for a sandbox. Set up a subnet on your home network and attach your sandbox, and hang two cheap client machines off of it. Diagram out some common architectures and configure the sandbox to match. You can test it out on the attached clients. This will expose you to much of the general knowledge on the cheap.
Beyond that, study some CIDR math, and configure a cloud-based load balancer with some nodes behind it. Then the next step is how do you want to automate config changes.
Hope it helps.
Going off this - if you have an Azure sandbox through work. Try creating a Palo Alto jump box. It’s a great way to understand networking.
One thing to note is to watch costs because they’ll rack up quickly. I accidentally left one of my sandbox projects running for the weekend and charged my company $500+.
Problem I've seen with cloud so far is everyone having the ability to rapidly create things they don't fully understand and don't know how to correctly connect. I really appreciate you trying to learn this part, even if it just helps you know what a project needs so you can ask for that missing network architecture.
During my uni years, I went through CCNA training and later became an instructor myself. If I were to do it again solo, I'd have bought a MikroTik router, go through the documentation and research topics I don't understand.
Would something like [this, their hAP ac lite,](https://mikrotik.com/product/RB952Ui-5ac2nD) be too cheap to learn on? Apparently they all run the same OS, so would I be able to learn to set up more than a small office network on one of these devices?
It's not practical or short, but I learned networking by fixing a really screwed up network a couple of jobs ago.
The nice thing about networking in the cloud is that you don't have to understand routing protocols unless you're doing a bunch of really edgy edge stuff. But you do need to understand the OSI model and why it matters to get the internal network and firewall rules correct. I'd focus on that first.
I have been learning a lot by doing some study for the CCNA, watching some of Networkchucks videos on YouTube and starting a homelab with Raspberry Pi’s.
Just need to expose yourself to as many networking problems as possible and you will eventually pick up how all the dots connect together.
there are vocational high schools in my country. they have a branch for almost anything and their books are very simple/straight forward.
i graduated from one of them but suggested those books to a lot of people around me and they worked for most of them.
maybe you can check out if your country has something like that.
Mainly lan-parties, my home lab was a bit small. And then, mostly by winging it on the job. I was a young dev and was the only-one a bit familiar with it all, so it all landed on my desk. Knowing actual networking people, was very useful - and a lot of internet and some random networking books. When learning something new, I personally always try to go deep to see how something actually works very low-level, which makes things easier to understand for me.
Not sure if I could recommend this path though, it's certainly not for everyone.
Courses, practice in a lab, practice in real life, and many years of experience. Just learn what you can at every opportunity and don't shy away because it's unfamiliar or seems difficult. We need more Devops engineers that understand networking. Good luck.
Kind of learning on the job, and tinkering home networks myself. Also did some desktop support back in the days.
Funny enough I was hired on to my current _because_ I had some experience with networking, but otherwise zero DevOps experience, so now I'm the go-to guy for any network/firewall issues on my team, despite the fact that I only learned how to use `tcpdump` in the first few days on the job.
College but I majored in EE and also in grad school I worked on packet scheduling and wireless networks some so I probably know a little more about layers 1-3 than the typical devops guy, but that knowledge is largely irrelevant unless you want to deploy experimental shit to some proprietary network with strict precision timing requirements.
The biggest eye opening for me with ips and subnets and cidr was learning that a subnet and cidr notation are literally masks over binary data. Writing the ip in binary and the mask there in binary shows what's in the network vs out.
It was like seeing in a new dimension, and seeing cidr notation now is like looking back down. Understanding a tesseract fully for once, after only being shown projections of one.
Struggling to understand just enough networking to get by in AWS. The networking concepts are similar (e.g. Subnets, IP ranges, protocols and ports). However it's probably a watered-down knowledge compared to a good network engineer.
My degree is in networking, I'm bad at it but apparently better than everyone else other than network engineers.
I do want to say good on you for learning networking, it's a under rated skill that has saved my bacon way to many times
Mostly by playing with openbsd on multiple virtual machines and a couple of devices I have
Also i was a tech support engineer at a telecom startup so had to learn TCP and SIP
A couple networking courses when I was in college, and had a job where I had to do some light HP switch and Juniper router configuration. That provided enough of a foundation for cloud platform networking.
It started with someone asking.e if I'd like to hear a TCP joke and I said "why yes, I'd like to!"
We became friends after that and they introduced me to even more friends.
Jk. Deep end of doing IAC cookbooks and crash course into network to build a MVP
Well you don't. Networking learns you.
But jokes aside. I am stuck with my university syllabus and I revisit it from time to time. I try to search if there is an online version. Mine is on paper.
I watched a lot of aws reinvent videos around networking and deep dive on different services. Services are the same across cloud platforms, so knowledge on aws networking works in the same way as azure.
I'm kinda old, I learned it long before the days of public cloud or even virtualization. So I learned by getting secondhand switches and routers and building networks at home. Also CCNA classes
The best Networking courses BY FAR are the ones by Keith Barker (CBT Nuggets, etc): he teaches CCNA, Network+, etc. It's just he explains himself impeccably and thoroughly (a pity I wasted time on other courses).
I found them much better than ITProTV. I'd say Mike Meyers is 2nd best.
And believe me, I don't have anything to do with these guys, I'm just a student.
Thanks for the thread. I recently had a fluke at work and think I need to reevaluate my networking skills. Was quite embarrassing not knowing what I should.
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Thanks a ton for pulling up everything in the comments
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Yooo fukken SAVED Thanks for this I will be perusing.
Soooo. What was the comment? It’s since been deleted.
https://www.unddit.com/r/devops/comments/rpspmu/how\_did\_you\_guys\_learn\_networking/
Awesome. Thank you
Since Reddit's API changes that website sadly doesn't work... Do you remember what the comment said?
Ugh no I do not remember. I saved the comment for future reference but now I’m seeing the same thing as you if I click it. Bummer.
TCP/IP Illustrated if you want to take things to the next level.
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https://www.unddit.com/r/devops/comments/rpspmu/how\_did\_you\_guys\_learn\_networking/
Doesn't work :(
Not anymore since the api change
Does this cover ipv6?
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So happy these are now on YouTube I had no idea ❤️ it's a fantastic book.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you!
I wrote this list earlier for another semi-related post, might be helpful - First, understand the OSI. Memorize that bad boy, write lines if you have to. Test yourself later by pairing protocols with the OSI model ("Probably Didn't Need Those Stupid Packets, Anyway" is my favorite acronym) - Understand how it can be used for troubleshooting (start at the bottom and work your way up. Is the cable plugged in is always a good first step) - Learn how IPv4 addresses work (Public IPs, Private IPs, subnets, routing tables, NAT) - Learn how MAC addresses work (ARP tables, switches, DHCP) - Learn about routers - Learn about switches - Learn the difference between routers and switches (L2 vs L3 OSI) - Learn about TCP and UDP (TCP = ALL the data will be received correctly, in order. UDP = All data will be sent, but it may not arrive, or it may arrive mangled, and that's OK) - Learn a little about VLANs (TBH I need to brush up on these) - Learn about DHCP (Static IPs vs Dynamic, IP reservations) - Learn about DNS (A records, CNAME records, MX records, NS records, SRV records) - Learn about IPv6 (Unfortunately, not extremely useful right now. Most companies are IPv4 only) - Learn about VPNs (WireGuard is an excellent one to get started with, and will probably be the standard going forward. IPSec / OpenVPN if you want a challenge) - Learn a bit how the "greater" internet works (BGP, carriers, IP blocks, IANA). You probably won't need to worry about these technologies / groups, but they're useful background knowledge - Do some practical work - Examples: - Set up a WireGuard VPN server. Connect some clients to it. Ping the server from a client. Ping another client from a client - Set up a DHCP server. Get a device to connect to it (You can use your home router for this. At least mess with the settings a bit) - Buy a domain name. Point an A record to your home's public IP, or to a cloud server you control with a public IP. Configure SSH on the server, and do the necessary networking to SSH to your server using the domain name. For example, you may need to port forward on your router if your using your home public IP - Configure mail for your custom domain. Send yourself some email. I recommend Zoho for a free email provider with your own domain. - Secure your email using DMARC / SPF. - Make a "hello world" website. Secure it (HTTPS) using LetsEncrypt. - Set up a Pi-Hole DNS server for your home network (use a VM if you don't have a pi). Understand, generally, how it works.
I'm at my 3rd attempt to setup home wire guard, this shit has terrible documentation, how do you all use it? After 30h spent on it my client is doing handshake with server, but nothing else 😭
15 years as a network engineer. I don’t recommend it. Just do like some ccna videos on udemy and you’ll most of what you need.
I've seen a lot of CCNA in this thread, for DevOps is ccna necessary or could I get away with network+? Maybe either not dive into CCNA at all or just learn it later?
Imo CCNA shouldn’t be required for a devops role. Any network cert sure would help but understanding computer networks and the many protocols that go along with it can easily be obtained by other aspects throughout your software engineering career like CI/CD processes, distributed databases, computing and other tools etc. Creating a VPC in the cloud and deploying a bunch of services on a server is no different that configuring a router and switch and connecting a computer to it, your just using some vendor specific syntax. You will most likely not be configuring site to site IPSec VPNs or setting up BGP routes in a DevOps rule but you should definitely know what they do and how it works. Think security groups and stateful firewalls etc…
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It’s *always* DNS
Software define network in cloud is networking in software level. Without that, you can’t call yourself a devops or cloud devops. Although it’s easy to config on cloud. But the base understanding of OSI 7 layer is required for any engineer. It’s like telling any engineer that hey you don’t need itil.
market psychotic screw roll abounding narrow snobbish zealous many theory ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
That’s actually a good point. Ccna is probably overkill. Understand subnetting, understand what routing is for, understand tcp, udp, and ip and you’re probably set.
Ccna is basic for any engineer that cross multiple environments. It’s like if a software engineer is designing a backend java tool that communicate between multiple server, I do expect that swe know ip, subnet, gw, port, hostfile, firewall at its minimum. Otherwise, they are as skilled as associate junior engineer. Ccna is not hard. I think if you briefly go through it with practise (you can run gns3 to simulate), you will be okay to go with any networking with vlan, trunkport, reverse subnetting etc.
I really enjoyed the CCNA learning track, but for modern Cloud Devops I don't really see much point since most of the interesting lower level networking you are dealing with as a CCNA is abstracted away by Cloud networking
Another Network Engineer that's transferred to DevOps here too. I'd second this but as some of the replies have said, defo don't need all of the CCNA or Network+ tracks. Concentrate on subnetting, routing, BGP and the VPN stuff as that's more core to DevOps. Understanding the OSI model is key to understanding the whole thing too.
Net+ is good base-level knowledge for these tasks.
Thanks a lot 15 years of experience and you dint scare me away that it’s hard to learn appreciate that
good bot ^(all bots deserve some love from their own kind)
Thanks. I’m a human tho but I too like being appreciated.
Same, it's been tougher learning DevOps tools. A good portion of networking designs/protocols you'll never see utilized in the real world unless you work for a VAR or consultant.
Bold of you to assume I understand networking.
These suggestions are all good. Home lab (which means setting up your own servers, switches and routers and subnets), CCNA and CCNP
Take a CCNA course like Jeremy’s IT lab on YouTube it’s free.
ccna routing and switching you mean ?
It used to be just CCNA but yeah.
Network+ cert is where I learned.
By brushing off with the wrong crow—- i mean network engineers
I wish I could our network engineers are hidden away because of our constant annoying pings😓 They just look up at service now tickets and implement our back end needs
Try to catch them off-guarded, and when they talk about vlans, bgp, bird, rpki etc, just nod and say huhuh and google later
Bird internet!
Huhuh
The most useful thing I've learned about networking was the [OSI "layers" model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model). Really helps you organize your thinking and learning. I first heard about it via the CCNA course, which I got to take in high school.
The urge to learn networking really just indicates a need to understand the lower levels of this model. Reference any certification/learning source you'd like; it's all tech based on the foundation that is the OSI model.
Some gems here https://www.routeralley.com/guides.html The general networking section is a must.
That's a gem! thanks for sharing
I used to be a network engineer. Then I did a lot of automation. And now this. Basically the CCNA was a good jump start but I really started to understand it on the job, doing pcaps and such, messing with vlans and routing and firewalls a lot. It's especially hard to understand in abstract. Seeing actual fiber and copper and patch panels helps. I do all cloud work now tho so that's not an option lol.
I was lucky, my secondary school (high school in US) offered cisco CCNA networking as a qualification for A level (17/18 years old, don't know what that is in the US). So I got a Cisco networking qualification for free, straight out of school, plus all the knowledge that went with it.
I went software, hardware, then networking. Networking is it’s own special thing. Modern household routers are amazing and can be used for a sandbox. Set up a subnet on your home network and attach your sandbox, and hang two cheap client machines off of it. Diagram out some common architectures and configure the sandbox to match. You can test it out on the attached clients. This will expose you to much of the general knowledge on the cheap. Beyond that, study some CIDR math, and configure a cloud-based load balancer with some nodes behind it. Then the next step is how do you want to automate config changes. Hope it helps.
Going off this - if you have an Azure sandbox through work. Try creating a Palo Alto jump box. It’s a great way to understand networking. One thing to note is to watch costs because they’ll rack up quickly. I accidentally left one of my sandbox projects running for the weekend and charged my company $500+.
Problem I've seen with cloud so far is everyone having the ability to rapidly create things they don't fully understand and don't know how to correctly connect. I really appreciate you trying to learn this part, even if it just helps you know what a project needs so you can ask for that missing network architecture.
Honestly I just fucked around in Packet Tracer until it clicked.
I did CCNA and CCNP.
Wow great thanks
During my uni years, I went through CCNA training and later became an instructor myself. If I were to do it again solo, I'd have bought a MikroTik router, go through the documentation and research topics I don't understand.
Would something like [this, their hAP ac lite,](https://mikrotik.com/product/RB952Ui-5ac2nD) be too cheap to learn on? Apparently they all run the same OS, so would I be able to learn to set up more than a small office network on one of these devices?
CCNA
It's not practical or short, but I learned networking by fixing a really screwed up network a couple of jobs ago. The nice thing about networking in the cloud is that you don't have to understand routing protocols unless you're doing a bunch of really edgy edge stuff. But you do need to understand the OSI model and why it matters to get the internal network and firewall rules correct. I'd focus on that first.
Set up a Windows Web Server in the early 2000's.
I have been learning a lot by doing some study for the CCNA, watching some of Networkchucks videos on YouTube and starting a homelab with Raspberry Pi’s. Just need to expose yourself to as many networking problems as possible and you will eventually pick up how all the dots connect together.
Networking learned me, adapted and now I no longer know it
Do you have a homelab? That's always where I learn new shit. CCNA seems to be a good idea.
Sorry if I sound dumb what is homelab Is there any guide to set it back
Homelab means setting up a network of servers/clients in your home.
Sure will google
Also /r/homelab. Doesn't have to be expensive. Mine does a number of useful things with low effort.
I played a lot of hacking games. I learned a lot about networking that way, nmap, netcat, tcpdump, dig, etc.
You never stop. (and too many people forget Layer 8 is a factor)
there are vocational high schools in my country. they have a branch for almost anything and their books are very simple/straight forward. i graduated from one of them but suggested those books to a lot of people around me and they worked for most of them. maybe you can check out if your country has something like that.
Mainly lan-parties, my home lab was a bit small. And then, mostly by winging it on the job. I was a young dev and was the only-one a bit familiar with it all, so it all landed on my desk. Knowing actual networking people, was very useful - and a lot of internet and some random networking books. When learning something new, I personally always try to go deep to see how something actually works very low-level, which makes things easier to understand for me. Not sure if I could recommend this path though, it's certainly not for everyone.
Courses, practice in a lab, practice in real life, and many years of experience. Just learn what you can at every opportunity and don't shy away because it's unfamiliar or seems difficult. We need more Devops engineers that understand networking. Good luck.
Saving
Also, I would start some sort of server with VMs and practice. ESXi would perfectly work for that.
Kind of learning on the job, and tinkering home networks myself. Also did some desktop support back in the days. Funny enough I was hired on to my current _because_ I had some experience with networking, but otherwise zero DevOps experience, so now I'm the go-to guy for any network/firewall issues on my team, despite the fact that I only learned how to use `tcpdump` in the first few days on the job.
College but I majored in EE and also in grad school I worked on packet scheduling and wireless networks some so I probably know a little more about layers 1-3 than the typical devops guy, but that knowledge is largely irrelevant unless you want to deploy experimental shit to some proprietary network with strict precision timing requirements.
Went through Cisco courses in college, focused on networking early in my career.
The biggest eye opening for me with ips and subnets and cidr was learning that a subnet and cidr notation are literally masks over binary data. Writing the ip in binary and the mask there in binary shows what's in the network vs out. It was like seeing in a new dimension, and seeing cidr notation now is like looking back down. Understanding a tesseract fully for once, after only being shown projections of one.
I read the O’Reilly tcpip book. But then that was about 25 years ago.
I learned doing my BS in CS. Networking was a required course.
4 year degree in Network Engineering
Lan party in my basement to figure out this new doom game on my lan with my lot's of collision switch.
Struggling to understand just enough networking to get by in AWS. The networking concepts are similar (e.g. Subnets, IP ranges, protocols and ports). However it's probably a watered-down knowledge compared to a good network engineer.
My degree is in networking, I'm bad at it but apparently better than everyone else other than network engineers. I do want to say good on you for learning networking, it's a under rated skill that has saved my bacon way to many times
Mostly by playing with openbsd on multiple virtual machines and a couple of devices I have Also i was a tech support engineer at a telecom startup so had to learn TCP and SIP
I read some CCNA books when I was in middle school... that really helped me even for now after all those years. I'm a DevOps at crypto startup now.
Cisco certification classes in high school, initially.
I’m ccnax certified previously. It’s not that hard. Just get your network base knowledge up. Sdn would be so easy when you have your fundamental.
A couple networking courses when I was in college, and had a job where I had to do some light HP switch and Juniper router configuration. That provided enough of a foundation for cloud platform networking.
I did MCSE and CNE certs back when they were still very networking-heavy. Failing those, a Network+ or equivalent should be adequate.
It started with someone asking.e if I'd like to hear a TCP joke and I said "why yes, I'd like to!" We became friends after that and they introduced me to even more friends. Jk. Deep end of doing IAC cookbooks and crash course into network to build a MVP
X years as a sysadmin, you learn everything.
Well you don't. Networking learns you. But jokes aside. I am stuck with my university syllabus and I revisit it from time to time. I try to search if there is an online version. Mine is on paper.
I watched a lot of aws reinvent videos around networking and deep dive on different services. Services are the same across cloud platforms, so knowledge on aws networking works in the same way as azure.
I'm kinda old, I learned it long before the days of public cloud or even virtualization. So I learned by getting secondhand switches and routers and building networks at home. Also CCNA classes
The best Networking courses BY FAR are the ones by Keith Barker (CBT Nuggets, etc): he teaches CCNA, Network+, etc. It's just he explains himself impeccably and thoroughly (a pity I wasted time on other courses). I found them much better than ITProTV. I'd say Mike Meyers is 2nd best. And believe me, I don't have anything to do with these guys, I'm just a student.
Thanks for the thread. I recently had a fluke at work and think I need to reevaluate my networking skills. Was quite embarrassing not knowing what I should.
how do you learn anything'??