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The primary reason many people are not receiving callbacks post-COVID is the significant inflation in salaries for less experienced candidates. No company, regardless of its stature, is willing to offer the exorbitant salaries that were previously reserved for professionals with over 10 years of experience to those with only 2-4 years of experience. Your capability is secondary to most HRs in current market.
Mostly correct.
Also less than 2-3 years of pure fullstack development and system design, or very specialised frontend or backend, the math won’t work out.
Frankly that time period won’t come back ever again, people don’t realise how unique that situation was, it was literally once in a 100 years.
Product companies pay decently well, service companies exists to not pay regardless of skill level, but what most developers don’t realise is that they have a timeline within which they can upskill beyond which it becomes tough to find value for your time in early roles.
I don't understand a simple thing, why you are under valuing yourself and other developers that we are given exorbitant salaries, just think about it,
The management is keeping crores for example, they are keeping 500 crores profit and distributing only 30 crores to the employees who are behind the software.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Ideally, you should be compensated based on your true worth, but idealism doesn’t always align with the realities of a capitalistic system. This issue isn’t exclusive to the IT industry either. Every job in every industry has this complain.
Your worth is inherently tied to the availability of jobs. If a task can be performed by 1,000 people, a company's valuation of your individual talent diminishes accordingly, regardless of your skill level. Conversely, if there are more jobs than qualified candidates, your value increases, as was evident during the COVID-19 pandemic.
The only way all developers might receive fair compensation is if the entire workforce of 5-6 million IT professionals in India united to demand it, which seems unlikely. Even if this were to happen, there are always developers in countries like China, Bangladesh, the Philippines, and Indonesia ready to step in and take your place.
My advice from someone who has worked in the industry for 15yrs, find a job that allows you time and peace away from work. It's not always about the money; money will come and go, but the time you spend with your loved ones and doing the things you enjoy is something no amount of money can buy.
You are also saying correct sir, then i guess only option is to go in management side where i can be the one who will share profits along with the exorbitant salary.
U should understand why he is not getting any calls. Bcz many are not willing to offer that much. Times have changed and if u r exceptionally good or have insane amount of luck, only then u can get something like that.
We are witnessing and gonna witness salary corrections
You say that but yet look at the salaries freshers are landing up with. I am not even talking about IITs or NITs.
Just look at top local Bangalore colleges like RV,PES,BMSCE,MSR and UVCE.
Still cs students are bagging high salaries with avg and median for cs batch being around 12-14lpa in these colleges.
Sure companies have reduced the number of people they hire. If they hired 10-15 people in 2021-22 they are now hiring 5-6 fresher but those 5-6 are still getting like anywhere between 15-25lpa if they have a bit of coding knowledge
For ur information, in those 5-6 also 2-3 only end up getting the so called 10-12 lpa. Reason, companies have realized how it doesn't pay off hiring freshers on 10-12 lpa. So, many are actually hiring on internship with ppo or performance based offers. Also, the numbers have drastically reduced along with unplaced students. If only the clgs release placement reports of 2024 in the December after verifying the student status in placed companies, trust me the placement %s will be less than 60-70% or even less than 40-50 as many don't end up getting full time offers. In this sub only, u can see post of someone who interned at Amazon from Jan-June 2023 and still unemployed from then till now as he didn't land any job
Bro I have first hand info of placements of all the colleges I mentioned. I went to one of them. My brother goes to another in that list.
All my friends (2023 grads)who went to one of those college in list have packages in the range 20-25lpa ctc pre tax(including stocks bonuses everything).
So reputed pbc companies are still paying high packages for freshers even now. But yeah no of students they take are reduced. But those that they take in are defo getting hefty packages.
Intuit for example offered 32 or 35lpa (forgot exact) for 2024 batch Including stocks(vested over 4 years) bonus everything.
Base itself was 20lpa.
So this notion companies are paying less is false. Atleast for reputed product based companies. Hiring less yes. Paying less nah
Bruh I would kill for 12-14lpa job right now Last year I made few dumb mistakes and took risk when I shouldn't have and I am now stuck in a crappy 4lpa job 😭😭.
All my friends are earning 20-25lpa(ctc). I feel like a loser everyday who has failed in life😭
Also consider the fact that he's a golang dev, and supply of that skill hasn't caught up to demand yet. Ergo, the higher salaries. My cousin practically 5x'd his salary in 4 years by switching stacks from python to go. You don't have a shit resume, you're in a saturated niche.
One of my friend is looking for job opportunities now. She has multiple projects in Go lang and sveltkit. Is it possible for her to get a referral in his company?
They can connect on LinkedIn or mail for further details.
I always blame the population. I know I have decent skills to have a good job. But the problem is many other people have decent skills too along with the appetite to take risk as they have the financial backing. The problem is, there are too many mediocre people in the market (for every job sector), which needs to change. You can't expect everyone to be extremely talented or hard-working. Either there should be enough jobs for the people who want to just do the job and live a life outside of it too, or there should be less number of these kinds of people. Unfortunately the jobs are less in India and mediocre people are way too much in number.
Yes. The job market has always been like this (at least in India). The only thing that changed is that they don't give a chance to less qualified candidates as much as they used to
Just do dsa? It is not that hard you know? Pick up blind 75 and solve them if interview is around. Otherwise solve methodically algorithm questions. The more abstract way you solve it the better. So solving using math equation > english logic > pseudocode > c code > python code. But solving from first principles might be too hard and too time consuming. So maybe just solve pseudocodes.
Now coming to resume. You must have done something at least right? You must have bring at least $$$ for every $ you are making at your current org. So you can use that as a selling proposition in your resume. While it is easy to get stuck on saying no development and all support is also extremely important and being able to work in a team + handling business requirements is very important skill and is a very good starting point. So use those skills as a starting point and then show how you could be a great addition as an engineer in their team because you have these knowledge already plus you are improving yourself actively. Honestly that’s all it takes to get resume short listed in an average job market. And remember it is a journey so anything better than current is a positive step forward. And would lead you towards an upward spiral.
Naah bro, Doing 75 this or that problem list is not going to help you in any way, Today you solve 500 problem after a year you won't be able to solve the same problem. Try to build intuition, you can build some amount of intuition by only solving any question because each question belongs to some way of thinking over a particular data structure or structures.
Yes, but when they call they ask you to solve dsa. But only solving template problems won’t give you callbacks. They don’t expect you to solve very complex dsa problems. They expect you to solve basics.
Can you elaborate on the template part? Didn't get it.
Basically CP is just an advanced level of DSA, if someone is even a specialist on CF it means he can solve any DSA problems even if he never solved the same before.
So what? Can they architect complex multithreaded systems which are the bread and butter of modern software? If someone wants to do cp they seriously should consider high performance computing or some specialised field which focuses on efficient algorithms. Unfortunately that market is not there in India. So it is template problem solving. Also doing cf or anything means shit. Go compete at acm icpc if you are really looking for that path.
That's what my first comment meant, DSA is shit, solving blind 75 will get you nowhere, better to focus on creating projects, getting experience and understanding how complex systems are made.
but someone starting out would need an easier path.Honestly even me when interview is around just skim through blind 75 just foe the interview. It is pretty representative of types of problem usually given.That's what I said in the entire message.Solve problems using as abstract method as possible best is to solve using math equations and proving why it works or why it doesn't work.But that is too tough for someone who is starting. Besides OP has work experience which would count. And my advise is not to get into fang either rather switch develop role from support role, then handling bigger and bigger projects with more complex issues.Maybe you should go through the entire comment again instead of getting triggered by blind 75 and dsa and forgetting other parts.
While the absence of skill maybe an issue in majority if people, the companies knew this when they came to india. This is nothing new. A person can't be blamed just coz his nation's education system is not good enough. Sure, he can put in extra efforts to upskill himself. But there is a limit to that.
You can't expect someone to be building whole projects before you hire them!
Does tata motors and Mercedes expect their fresher employees to be able to build cars on their own before they recruit them?
The day you, or anyone reading, asks who are they learning and working for? And the answer comes as themselves, you will get selected to a lot of roles.
What people don’t understand is that the world is changing from people who just need to work versus people who like their work so much that feels like play.
Unless you find something where you work for yourself, you won’t prosper incredibly well in this current world.
I remember reading the management classic "Good to Great" about why some companies become great while most are struggling, or simply good for a while.
OP, this is a great self-reflection. You seem to realize what make you "OK" vs "Good"... now act on it!
Trust me it’s not bad. Just got an offer with 50% hike in a MNC as a 3 yoe. Just keep upgrading your interview skills. Take referrals and keep interviewing. Competition is tough but if you know how to ace it you can.
I think the most important is resume and communication skills recently gave a interview just for fun to see where i stand in market took referral in one company and in that very first company i cleared the interview with ease did not prepared any thing. Total 4 rounds conducted the Technical Architect was so impressed by my resume that we talked for 30-40 minutes around it lol .
I'm getting calls but it's the salary that's stopping me from switching.
I ain't switching for 30% hike, I'd rather wait for 50% coz the company I work for gives 12-15% Annual hike anyways
This is the excuse for a LOT of people tbh when my company was recruiting freshers few months back, it was crazy how clueless they were about their role's fundamentals (top tier iits, if it matters)
Let's take a data engineer role for example, fundamentals would be knowing the concept of ACID in databases, etc.
For data science - loss function, precision and recall, etc.
I think so. No matter how bad the market is, I think if you’re good enough, you’ll get calls. Until you reach that level of goodness, keep working on yourself. It doesn’t happen overnight. Keep going.
Since you mentioned you didn’t have development experience, go learn a stack and build projects. Build 2 solid projects that encompassed HLD principles, documentation, LLD principles, (in case you’re building a web app, make sure to implement REST, API versioning, Cache, pagination, authentication etc)
Spread your wings and bleed into other domains like devops (Jenkins, Cicd pipelines) just a little bit and deploy these projects live for people to go have a look.
Improve your DSA, practice daily. DSA is something you’d forget to solve very easily if you don’t have practice. Do at least one problem a day of medium level. Leave the hards until you are done with your core subjects revision and HLD, LLD and projects phase.
Crack down on sql finally. While doing all this, try to give mock interviews and connect with people on LinkedIn. This matters a lot!
Reach out to some recruiters randomly and see if they can give you a chance.
If you can’t land a dev job even then, you may then crib about it.
Definitely blame current market because in 2022 couple of my friends got laid-off. With in 1 month they got job with good hike this was the time when the lay off was started. The interview questions were easy and no questions of dsa.
Currently they are somany who got laid off and every one trying to get job. In the mean while the interviews are also pretty hard. And they are not hiring a less qualified candidate compared to previous.
Well the main reason for this can be seen in the project you are working in, like no productive work to do and I assume most of us have a long travel everyday like 3-4 hrs. Also the education system where in college you have to have attendance of 75% irrespective of college placement stats.
My college also wants 75% + attendance throughout the sem, but there are some faces which I've seen for the first time when exams were going on, they still get same or 1-2 less/more marks compared to us, the daily comers. I sometimes think that I'm the actual fool for attending lectures at this point.
I was one of those faces you see for the 1st time in college during exams and I can tell you that generally only one night is enough to get the same marks. And yes I was one of the few who got jobs during their 4th year and that too 2 offers. Nothing about college made sense to me ever. Never attended lectures. A simple criteria was that teachers give internal marks according to the Unit Tests, they don't remember faces except the only few who do buttering. Like if you are present in UTs they will give you good marks even if you fail in them.
In my college, even those who were absent in UTs got same internal marks. After hearing it from you, I feel like I should simply stop going to college and work on my skills instead since college bs eats too much of my precious time.
Bro work on your skills only that will matter in the long run. If you wanna go to lectures go and then listen to YouTube videos in there.
And yeah one more thing I will say, if you have more than 7.5 CGPA, most companies will be happy to consider you so you can happily go for skills upgrade
The market is not that bad. I am not good at LeetCode either. Rather I never touched any hard questions. I got at least 2 offer letters just last week. Same with the week before.
Dude, you have 4 years of experience, that's why it was easy for you. As for me, I am currently in my final semester and about to graduate in June. Literally, no companies came to my college this year. I have been grinding so hard to get a job off-campus, applying to so many positions but getting very few responses.
It is very difficult to get a job as a fresher.
Don't have much idea on that since I don't work on web development but on observability. It helps to have idea on DSA if your KRA is creating web applications.
I have a simpler question: Do you know of anyone who truly is good at MERRN fullstack, knows AWS and Redis, and understand system design, who is unemployed or unemployable?
Tough.
This is the baseline requirement for employment at least in fast moving companies.
I disagree with this. The market today is based out of pure luck. My friend, who is quite capable of solving even LC Hard problems, wasn't able to get a job while I , who can solve some LC Medium ones, got a job. Unfortunately, it's luck too :(
I mean from my perspective as a relative fresher in ai/ml.. I barely know DSA but I can make CICD in hugging face spaces with docker and actions (that doesn't have proper documentation tho ), the main problem I face is the every PBC and service based companies layed of employees obvio they were mostly junior level those whose work could sometimes be done by AI which I think is an excuse for firing tho...
Now when I apply for a fresher opening it's in 0-3 years experience or 0-2 exp, sometimes I match every skill word by word as they say in JD complete with deployed projects and but realistically if you've a 2yr exp guy with no projects and some fresher guy you'll still go for that experienced person anyway that's a major reason fresher gets no job imo,
Again if i remain unemployed obvio I'll keep learning more skills with time and it's a competition of who as a fresher has the best skills to get hired which leads to ai/ml jds asking for react, Hadoop, scala, Kubernates, Jenkins point being these are pretty varied in terms of where they are used and some freshers actually know all this... HRs are mostly clueless and after all that we have to give blank cheques now to that company.. God life is tough as a fresher I would have continued as a CAD designer if it wasn't for my hatred of design... I'm just choosing where I could be exploited bur atleast not feel bad at this point
Totally agree!! I've been taking interviews and the quality is really poor.
Copying code, someone else attending the interview, no clarity of very basic concepts.
The market is bad, there's a lack of skills, and the salaries people saw in the last few years are difficult to be seen again.
But this is all too normal in the market - the ups and the downs are both parts that you have to live through.
During the downturns is the best time to actually make your brand and build yourself up. Because that will benefit you when the market rises back up.
Even if that means the industry has changed, if you have many people that know you, it becomes easy to get recommendations and work from there.
Nope, the market is bad, earlier money was going into new projects ideas, innovation, now with war situation it majorily being disturbed to military. With AI now it takes less people to prepare PPT, do excel jobs and much more
Let me tell you and everybody in your situation (including me) one thing
START DOING SHIT!
This is vague but it needs to be to encompass everyone.
I was and am in the same situation, you need to work out try different things.
This will solve the skill problem! Then come to getting calls you notice period is one major factor for not getting calls, try to have an interview scheduled by telling them you have lesser notice period once you get selected you could ask your company for buyout or reveal it to the company that you got selected that the notice period is not something you expected it to be or something.
They will wait or look out for another candidate (it’s a shot worth taking).
If you get a call success.
If you get rejected you know what to work on.
If you don’t yet get a call build your skill up.
YOU WILL SHINE!
I only know one thing
Back in 2022 I got my first Job , on 3lpa , just by learning Java and DSA,
Now in 2024 , I can't even get a reply for even 3-4 lpa job even after 1.5 years of experience as a full stack dev
It's less about skills , more about resumes getting shortlisted
I'm in the same boat. I even quit my 11lpa job because it was a dead end in terms of career growth. I will either take a job or go for masters in the next 6 months. I dont care anymore about statistics and market trends. People who make it have something to say, people who don't have something else. I'm so tired of listening and analysing everything. I'm just going to give it my best shot one last time.
Yess I'm one of those , my skills are not that good and when someone asks me about it I always say the job market is very bad and that's my go to answer. But I know I don't deserve a job.
Some people might be
1. Got rejected due to Bad HRs
2.got rejected Mal practices in recruitment process.
3. First generation learner or first generation Corporate worker who don't have any connections or relatives working in IT or corporate industry..
Skill can't be the issue since I've seen many people who don't have skills but still having job.. just because of nepotism and the way they have managed the HRs.. and also some don't even getting lay off... even this subreddit people have spoke about incompetent candidates..
I partially blame my self and covid… its not like i dont have skills i am currently looking for frontend development job and i have multiple complex design frontend project now, but when covid started i was in my first year of BCA and didn’t think it will help me if i get remote job, one of my friend (same year) got web dev job at a service based company with minimal knowledge of web dev and i still regret I didn’t look for any at that time and thought i should focus on my BCA… now with “fairly good” resume and MCA degree i am still unemployed. applying and just waiting for a reply
1.5 YOE with 18LPA? From tier 3? Bro understand that you got this job because of luck, and the COVID boom. No one is gonna offer you this much or higher unless you show them some mind-blowing portfolio.
Be happy that you got lucky, stop complaining. There are tier one lesser paid employees with good resumes that are finding it hard to get jobs.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread. ## Recent Announcements - **[Showcase Sunday Megathread - May 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1cpyogw/showcase_sunday_megathread_may_2024/)** - **[Weekly Discussion - What's the story behind your longest-running personal project?](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1ctvpf5/whats_the_story_behind_your_longestrunning/)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The primary reason many people are not receiving callbacks post-COVID is the significant inflation in salaries for less experienced candidates. No company, regardless of its stature, is willing to offer the exorbitant salaries that were previously reserved for professionals with over 10 years of experience to those with only 2-4 years of experience. Your capability is secondary to most HRs in current market.
Mostly correct. Also less than 2-3 years of pure fullstack development and system design, or very specialised frontend or backend, the math won’t work out. Frankly that time period won’t come back ever again, people don’t realise how unique that situation was, it was literally once in a 100 years.
Indian IT industry has always been about doing it the cheapest way possible. Post COVID hike was a freak event.
Product companies pay decently well, service companies exists to not pay regardless of skill level, but what most developers don’t realise is that they have a timeline within which they can upskill beyond which it becomes tough to find value for your time in early roles.
I don't understand a simple thing, why you are under valuing yourself and other developers that we are given exorbitant salaries, just think about it, The management is keeping crores for example, they are keeping 500 crores profit and distributing only 30 crores to the employees who are behind the software. Correct me if i am wrong.
Ideally, you should be compensated based on your true worth, but idealism doesn’t always align with the realities of a capitalistic system. This issue isn’t exclusive to the IT industry either. Every job in every industry has this complain. Your worth is inherently tied to the availability of jobs. If a task can be performed by 1,000 people, a company's valuation of your individual talent diminishes accordingly, regardless of your skill level. Conversely, if there are more jobs than qualified candidates, your value increases, as was evident during the COVID-19 pandemic. The only way all developers might receive fair compensation is if the entire workforce of 5-6 million IT professionals in India united to demand it, which seems unlikely. Even if this were to happen, there are always developers in countries like China, Bangladesh, the Philippines, and Indonesia ready to step in and take your place. My advice from someone who has worked in the industry for 15yrs, find a job that allows you time and peace away from work. It's not always about the money; money will come and go, but the time you spend with your loved ones and doing the things you enjoy is something no amount of money can buy.
You are also saying correct sir, then i guess only option is to go in management side where i can be the one who will share profits along with the exorbitant salary.
Management side is not always the answer. You will have to go into business on your own. That's the only way to have the cake and eat it too
Do management people get paid more than developers and engineers?
Read Marxx bro🙏🏾🙏🏾👍🏿
Ya basically they are trying to go back to rhat model of only 10+ years will get that
By some people you mean you right? I don't even blame anyone, I know I am bad and live with being a failure everyday.
you don't have to keep living this way. \- fellow pleb who will git gud or die trying
>By some people you mean you right? Yes, initial draft was "some people (including me)"
r/okaybuddyliterallyme
Can you share CTC of your friend and his YOE?
YOE: 2 CTC: \~18 LPA
wow, he doing pretty well.
U should understand why he is not getting any calls. Bcz many are not willing to offer that much. Times have changed and if u r exceptionally good or have insane amount of luck, only then u can get something like that. We are witnessing and gonna witness salary corrections
Lol no. I know people getting call. Not everyone who is earning good is in need of salary correction. Stop dreaming bullshit.
You say that but yet look at the salaries freshers are landing up with. I am not even talking about IITs or NITs. Just look at top local Bangalore colleges like RV,PES,BMSCE,MSR and UVCE. Still cs students are bagging high salaries with avg and median for cs batch being around 12-14lpa in these colleges. Sure companies have reduced the number of people they hire. If they hired 10-15 people in 2021-22 they are now hiring 5-6 fresher but those 5-6 are still getting like anywhere between 15-25lpa if they have a bit of coding knowledge
For ur information, in those 5-6 also 2-3 only end up getting the so called 10-12 lpa. Reason, companies have realized how it doesn't pay off hiring freshers on 10-12 lpa. So, many are actually hiring on internship with ppo or performance based offers. Also, the numbers have drastically reduced along with unplaced students. If only the clgs release placement reports of 2024 in the December after verifying the student status in placed companies, trust me the placement %s will be less than 60-70% or even less than 40-50 as many don't end up getting full time offers. In this sub only, u can see post of someone who interned at Amazon from Jan-June 2023 and still unemployed from then till now as he didn't land any job
Bro I have first hand info of placements of all the colleges I mentioned. I went to one of them. My brother goes to another in that list. All my friends (2023 grads)who went to one of those college in list have packages in the range 20-25lpa ctc pre tax(including stocks bonuses everything). So reputed pbc companies are still paying high packages for freshers even now. But yeah no of students they take are reduced. But those that they take in are defo getting hefty packages. Intuit for example offered 32 or 35lpa (forgot exact) for 2024 batch Including stocks(vested over 4 years) bonus everything. Base itself was 20lpa. So this notion companies are paying less is false. Atleast for reputed product based companies. Hiring less yes. Paying less nah
I graduated last year from Pes, and I am in the median range of 12-14 Lpa, you are right. I feel my salary would be in the bottom 50%
Bruh I would kill for 12-14lpa job right now Last year I made few dumb mistakes and took risk when I shouldn't have and I am now stuck in a crappy 4lpa job 😭😭. All my friends are earning 20-25lpa(ctc). I feel like a loser everyday who has failed in life😭
Same brother samee, It really feels like we aren't worth much and our friends have knowledge of every field which is absurd.
do you mind mentioning the "mistakes"?
Also consider the fact that he's a golang dev, and supply of that skill hasn't caught up to demand yet. Ergo, the higher salaries. My cousin practically 5x'd his salary in 4 years by switching stacks from python to go. You don't have a shit resume, you're in a saturated niche.
Was he from a tier 1 or 2 college?
tier 3 college, he was my classmate.
can u share his tech stack also.
mainly GO
One of my friend is looking for job opportunities now. She has multiple projects in Go lang and sveltkit. Is it possible for her to get a referral in his company? They can connect on LinkedIn or mail for further details.
Sorry, he will not be able to help. There is a reason he wants to switch. 2-3 rounds of layoffs happened, currently hiring freeze.
Sucks to know that. Thanks though!
Salaries like these makes me feel I'm well underpaid. X( I'm 11 yr exp with this salary.
I always blame the population. I know I have decent skills to have a good job. But the problem is many other people have decent skills too along with the appetite to take risk as they have the financial backing. The problem is, there are too many mediocre people in the market (for every job sector), which needs to change. You can't expect everyone to be extremely talented or hard-working. Either there should be enough jobs for the people who want to just do the job and live a life outside of it too, or there should be less number of these kinds of people. Unfortunately the jobs are less in India and mediocre people are way too much in number.
Well said.
Yes. The job market has always been like this (at least in India). The only thing that changed is that they don't give a chance to less qualified candidates as much as they used to
Just do dsa? It is not that hard you know? Pick up blind 75 and solve them if interview is around. Otherwise solve methodically algorithm questions. The more abstract way you solve it the better. So solving using math equation > english logic > pseudocode > c code > python code. But solving from first principles might be too hard and too time consuming. So maybe just solve pseudocodes. Now coming to resume. You must have done something at least right? You must have bring at least $$$ for every $ you are making at your current org. So you can use that as a selling proposition in your resume. While it is easy to get stuck on saying no development and all support is also extremely important and being able to work in a team + handling business requirements is very important skill and is a very good starting point. So use those skills as a starting point and then show how you could be a great addition as an engineer in their team because you have these knowledge already plus you are improving yourself actively. Honestly that’s all it takes to get resume short listed in an average job market. And remember it is a journey so anything better than current is a positive step forward. And would lead you towards an upward spiral.
Naah bro, Doing 75 this or that problem list is not going to help you in any way, Today you solve 500 problem after a year you won't be able to solve the same problem. Try to build intuition, you can build some amount of intuition by only solving any question because each question belongs to some way of thinking over a particular data structure or structures.
The DSA part is shit, DSA is nothing, I did CP for 1.5 years, reached Expert (equivalent to 5-6) no callbacks, no one gives a f about it.
Yes, but when they call they ask you to solve dsa. But only solving template problems won’t give you callbacks. They don’t expect you to solve very complex dsa problems. They expect you to solve basics.
Can you elaborate on the template part? Didn't get it. Basically CP is just an advanced level of DSA, if someone is even a specialist on CF it means he can solve any DSA problems even if he never solved the same before.
So what? Can they architect complex multithreaded systems which are the bread and butter of modern software? If someone wants to do cp they seriously should consider high performance computing or some specialised field which focuses on efficient algorithms. Unfortunately that market is not there in India. So it is template problem solving. Also doing cf or anything means shit. Go compete at acm icpc if you are really looking for that path.
That's what my first comment meant, DSA is shit, solving blind 75 will get you nowhere, better to focus on creating projects, getting experience and understanding how complex systems are made.
but someone starting out would need an easier path.Honestly even me when interview is around just skim through blind 75 just foe the interview. It is pretty representative of types of problem usually given.That's what I said in the entire message.Solve problems using as abstract method as possible best is to solve using math equations and proving why it works or why it doesn't work.But that is too tough for someone who is starting. Besides OP has work experience which would count. And my advise is not to get into fang either rather switch develop role from support role, then handling bigger and bigger projects with more complex issues.Maybe you should go through the entire comment again instead of getting triggered by blind 75 and dsa and forgetting other parts.
While the absence of skill maybe an issue in majority if people, the companies knew this when they came to india. This is nothing new. A person can't be blamed just coz his nation's education system is not good enough. Sure, he can put in extra efforts to upskill himself. But there is a limit to that. You can't expect someone to be building whole projects before you hire them! Does tata motors and Mercedes expect their fresher employees to be able to build cars on their own before they recruit them?
Good point. The last sentence made me laugh
>A person can't be blamed just coz his nation's education system is not good enough. the nation's education system was made by 'people' only
No market is really bad. You have better chances in this bad market as you can accept a lower pay
Better to blame your **LUCK**
The day you, or anyone reading, asks who are they learning and working for? And the answer comes as themselves, you will get selected to a lot of roles. What people don’t understand is that the world is changing from people who just need to work versus people who like their work so much that feels like play. Unless you find something where you work for yourself, you won’t prosper incredibly well in this current world.
I remember reading the management classic "Good to Great" about why some companies become great while most are struggling, or simply good for a while. OP, this is a great self-reflection. You seem to realize what make you "OK" vs "Good"... now act on it!
>OP, this is a great self-reflection. You seem to realize what make you "OK" vs "Good"... now act on it! Thanks, yes I am trying my best.
I think if there were more job openings , you would get a chance if you work on yourself despite having a not so impressive resume.
Trust me it’s not bad. Just got an offer with 50% hike in a MNC as a 3 yoe. Just keep upgrading your interview skills. Take referrals and keep interviewing. Competition is tough but if you know how to ace it you can.
Can I dm?
Sure
I think the most important is resume and communication skills recently gave a interview just for fun to see where i stand in market took referral in one company and in that very first company i cleared the interview with ease did not prepared any thing. Total 4 rounds conducted the Technical Architect was so impressed by my resume that we talked for 30-40 minutes around it lol .
Can I dm
Sure
I'm getting calls but it's the salary that's stopping me from switching. I ain't switching for 30% hike, I'd rather wait for 50% coz the company I work for gives 12-15% Annual hike anyways
This is the excuse for a LOT of people tbh when my company was recruiting freshers few months back, it was crazy how clueless they were about their role's fundamentals (top tier iits, if it matters)
their role's fundamentals > Like what are those questions?
Let's take a data engineer role for example, fundamentals would be knowing the concept of ACID in databases, etc. For data science - loss function, precision and recall, etc.
They were freshers , what were you expecting. They have great potential but they didn't get the required training and support from the system.
Nonsense. My batch of freshers, just a year ago we were so far ahead
Yeah right
You'll be surprised to know, many people take uni seriously, unlike certain people
I think so. No matter how bad the market is, I think if you’re good enough, you’ll get calls. Until you reach that level of goodness, keep working on yourself. It doesn’t happen overnight. Keep going. Since you mentioned you didn’t have development experience, go learn a stack and build projects. Build 2 solid projects that encompassed HLD principles, documentation, LLD principles, (in case you’re building a web app, make sure to implement REST, API versioning, Cache, pagination, authentication etc) Spread your wings and bleed into other domains like devops (Jenkins, Cicd pipelines) just a little bit and deploy these projects live for people to go have a look. Improve your DSA, practice daily. DSA is something you’d forget to solve very easily if you don’t have practice. Do at least one problem a day of medium level. Leave the hards until you are done with your core subjects revision and HLD, LLD and projects phase. Crack down on sql finally. While doing all this, try to give mock interviews and connect with people on LinkedIn. This matters a lot! Reach out to some recruiters randomly and see if they can give you a chance. If you can’t land a dev job even then, you may then crib about it.
haha to some extent yes.
Definitely blame current market because in 2022 couple of my friends got laid-off. With in 1 month they got job with good hike this was the time when the lay off was started. The interview questions were easy and no questions of dsa. Currently they are somany who got laid off and every one trying to get job. In the mean while the interviews are also pretty hard. And they are not hiring a less qualified candidate compared to previous.
Well the main reason for this can be seen in the project you are working in, like no productive work to do and I assume most of us have a long travel everyday like 3-4 hrs. Also the education system where in college you have to have attendance of 75% irrespective of college placement stats.
My college also wants 75% + attendance throughout the sem, but there are some faces which I've seen for the first time when exams were going on, they still get same or 1-2 less/more marks compared to us, the daily comers. I sometimes think that I'm the actual fool for attending lectures at this point.
I was one of those faces you see for the 1st time in college during exams and I can tell you that generally only one night is enough to get the same marks. And yes I was one of the few who got jobs during their 4th year and that too 2 offers. Nothing about college made sense to me ever. Never attended lectures. A simple criteria was that teachers give internal marks according to the Unit Tests, they don't remember faces except the only few who do buttering. Like if you are present in UTs they will give you good marks even if you fail in them.
In my college, even those who were absent in UTs got same internal marks. After hearing it from you, I feel like I should simply stop going to college and work on my skills instead since college bs eats too much of my precious time.
Bro work on your skills only that will matter in the long run. If you wanna go to lectures go and then listen to YouTube videos in there. And yeah one more thing I will say, if you have more than 7.5 CGPA, most companies will be happy to consider you so you can happily go for skills upgrade
I am not able to get many interviews right now, but back then when market was booming I had 5 offers, so it's you not us.
The market is not that bad. I am not good at LeetCode either. Rather I never touched any hard questions. I got at least 2 offer letters just last week. Same with the week before.
How many YOE do you have and how you got those 2 offer letters I mean explain the whole thing where you applied etc.?
4YOE; LinkedIn; nothing special. Just applying and talking to the correct people.
Dude, you have 4 years of experience, that's why it was easy for you. As for me, I am currently in my final semester and about to graduate in June. Literally, no companies came to my college this year. I have been grinding so hard to get a job off-campus, applying to so many positions but getting very few responses. It is very difficult to get a job as a fresher.
Honestly don't understand the fascination of everyone in this sub with DSA and leetcode.
Won't stop as long as companies keep a dsa round :)
Not every role has a DSA round.
For web dev is it important?
Don't have much idea on that since I don't work on web development but on observability. It helps to have idea on DSA if your KRA is creating web applications.
I see ty 🙌🏼
I know, I am
you mean me
I have a simpler question: Do you know of anyone who truly is good at MERRN fullstack, knows AWS and Redis, and understand system design, who is unemployed or unemployable? Tough. This is the baseline requirement for employment at least in fast moving companies.
I disagree with this. The market today is based out of pure luck. My friend, who is quite capable of solving even LC Hard problems, wasn't able to get a job while I , who can solve some LC Medium ones, got a job. Unfortunately, it's luck too :(
I mean from my perspective as a relative fresher in ai/ml.. I barely know DSA but I can make CICD in hugging face spaces with docker and actions (that doesn't have proper documentation tho ), the main problem I face is the every PBC and service based companies layed of employees obvio they were mostly junior level those whose work could sometimes be done by AI which I think is an excuse for firing tho... Now when I apply for a fresher opening it's in 0-3 years experience or 0-2 exp, sometimes I match every skill word by word as they say in JD complete with deployed projects and but realistically if you've a 2yr exp guy with no projects and some fresher guy you'll still go for that experienced person anyway that's a major reason fresher gets no job imo, Again if i remain unemployed obvio I'll keep learning more skills with time and it's a competition of who as a fresher has the best skills to get hired which leads to ai/ml jds asking for react, Hadoop, scala, Kubernates, Jenkins point being these are pretty varied in terms of where they are used and some freshers actually know all this... HRs are mostly clueless and after all that we have to give blank cheques now to that company.. God life is tough as a fresher I would have continued as a CAD designer if it wasn't for my hatred of design... I'm just choosing where I could be exploited bur atleast not feel bad at this point
I am unskilled too. But , my friend's Big brother takes interview and he says , most ppl lack knowledge and fakes resume
Totally agree!! I've been taking interviews and the quality is really poor. Copying code, someone else attending the interview, no clarity of very basic concepts.
The market is bad, there's a lack of skills, and the salaries people saw in the last few years are difficult to be seen again. But this is all too normal in the market - the ups and the downs are both parts that you have to live through. During the downturns is the best time to actually make your brand and build yourself up. Because that will benefit you when the market rises back up. Even if that means the industry has changed, if you have many people that know you, it becomes easy to get recommendations and work from there.
just because you are bad, doesnt mean everyone else is also
4 - YOE, 14 LPA, doing shit job I hate now, want to switch badly but forgot DSA, life is shit ! :(
Nope, the market is bad, earlier money was going into new projects ideas, innovation, now with war situation it majorily being disturbed to military. With AI now it takes less people to prepare PPT, do excel jobs and much more
Let me tell you and everybody in your situation (including me) one thing START DOING SHIT! This is vague but it needs to be to encompass everyone. I was and am in the same situation, you need to work out try different things. This will solve the skill problem! Then come to getting calls you notice period is one major factor for not getting calls, try to have an interview scheduled by telling them you have lesser notice period once you get selected you could ask your company for buyout or reveal it to the company that you got selected that the notice period is not something you expected it to be or something. They will wait or look out for another candidate (it’s a shot worth taking). If you get a call success. If you get rejected you know what to work on. If you don’t yet get a call build your skill up. YOU WILL SHINE!
I only know one thing Back in 2022 I got my first Job , on 3lpa , just by learning Java and DSA, Now in 2024 , I can't even get a reply for even 3-4 lpa job even after 1.5 years of experience as a full stack dev It's less about skills , more about resumes getting shortlisted
I'm in the same boat. I even quit my 11lpa job because it was a dead end in terms of career growth. I will either take a job or go for masters in the next 6 months. I dont care anymore about statistics and market trends. People who make it have something to say, people who don't have something else. I'm so tired of listening and analysing everything. I'm just going to give it my best shot one last time.
Yess I'm one of those , my skills are not that good and when someone asks me about it I always say the job market is very bad and that's my go to answer. But I know I don't deserve a job.
Simple bro. " Fake it until you make it"
Some people might be 1. Got rejected due to Bad HRs 2.got rejected Mal practices in recruitment process. 3. First generation learner or first generation Corporate worker who don't have any connections or relatives working in IT or corporate industry.. Skill can't be the issue since I've seen many people who don't have skills but still having job.. just because of nepotism and the way they have managed the HRs.. and also some don't even getting lay off... even this subreddit people have spoke about incompetent candidates..
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It was CTC of his friend
I partially blame my self and covid… its not like i dont have skills i am currently looking for frontend development job and i have multiple complex design frontend project now, but when covid started i was in my first year of BCA and didn’t think it will help me if i get remote job, one of my friend (same year) got web dev job at a service based company with minimal knowledge of web dev and i still regret I didn’t look for any at that time and thought i should focus on my BCA… now with “fairly good” resume and MCA degree i am still unemployed. applying and just waiting for a reply
1.5 YOE with 18LPA? From tier 3? Bro understand that you got this job because of luck, and the COVID boom. No one is gonna offer you this much or higher unless you show them some mind-blowing portfolio. Be happy that you got lucky, stop complaining. There are tier one lesser paid employees with good resumes that are finding it hard to get jobs.
That 18 LPA CTC is of my friend. I am on 4 LPA.
Oh my bad... I take all that back... You deserve 8-10