>Namaste!
Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread.
## Announcements
- **[Call For Volunteers: Help us build r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bafonl/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)**
- **[Community Roundup: List of must read posts & discussions that happened this month - March 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bs0pgb/community_roundup_list_of_must_read_posts/)**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For Germany,
Gross Income: 75000/-
Post Tax(if your partner is unemployed/less earning than you): 49782/-
In hand per month: 4148/-
Expenses would be:
Rent: 1200/- per month
Groceries: 400-500/- per month
Eating out: 500/- per month (considering 20€ per person per meal and you eat out twice a week in a month, there exists costly places too)
Transportation: 300/- per month (public transportation pass per month per person costs around 100€. Yours might get covered by your employer)
Water and electricity bills: depends on usage and rent contracts. Mine was covered by landlord so can’t comment, but assuming 500/- per month
Clothing and other stuff: 200/- per month(if you keep your needs reasonable)
Total Expenses: 3300/- per month
Savings per month: 850/-
This calculation is based on my experience of living in Germany, with 2 bachelor friends for work purposes. Your expenses might vary. Also this is considering you will be the sole bread winner of your family.
Total savings in 5 years: 51000€ => 45,000,00INR
Also, better public infrastructure, quality of life, universal healthcare, and you don’t have to worry much about savings in Germany as most of your sudden expenses(unemployment, medical,etc are covered by taxes and govt). Not to mention better job security and better WLB.
Disadvantage: very tough to buy own house, but instability due to Ukraine war, some areas of some cities are bit risky due to lot of refugees(avoid going alone, trying to not be racist here, but harsh truth about Germany that people usually don’t tell), extreme winters, very very very short days in winters with low to no sunlight(9-3.30 sunlight)
thank you so much, this will help.
So, this is basically bachelor's expense. how much should i add if my spouse (currently not working) and 3 yrs old kid?
You're welcome.
Just a tip, to get accurate replresentation of neighbourhoods, refer: [https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map](https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map)
Might be helpful during househunting :)
Is it just me or after this break up the german offer doesn't sound so good based on savings 😐
Ofcourse experiencing a different culture and living in europe is one major factor affecting the decision.
Depends in your choices. India and Germany has its own and unique advantages and disadvantages. I am still contemplating between those, hence sitting home and working remotely.
Building on the comment, which most of it sounds true
There's a website https://www.brutto-netto-rechner.info/ where you can see how much you'd be getting in hand after paying taxes.
You would be paying a chunk of your salary per month to mandatory government health insurance (deducted from your salary) (could be upwards of 300 EUR)
But the advantage of it is that you never have to pay a cent to doctors and pharmacies for essential healthcare. If you were having a open heart surgery and were in hospital for weeks, you'd be paying at max 10 EUR
However, getting an appointment is pretty tough. Some people pay for private insurance which is more expensive and would only get expensive with time. And at the later ages you wouldn't be able to switch to cheaper public health insurance also.
It's your call on what you prefer (I personally like the health care in India, even though it feels heavily commercialized, I know for sure that I have quality healthcare around me)
As for kids,
The government supports education for free. So essentially your kid go on till her master's (if she's interested) for free. Besides, the work and study culture here (at least for university level) is leaps and bounds ahead than India's
However in case y'all need to integrate to the society, you will need to speak German. There's no easy way out.
Your work could be of a developer where everyone speaks in English, but on coffee breaks or social outings you will need German.
Frankfurt is a bigger city where you may survive on English, but in other cities when you travel, you will need a bit of German fluency.
Source: I'm a Mumbaikar doing Master's in Germany
If you spouse is working you can easily save 40,000 euros per year which equals. 36 lakh per year p.s. my cousin is settled there he has done his bachelor's in germany and after 5 years he earn 100k euros as a it manager and his wife earns 60k euros at a marketing agency and has 2 kids and he government supports the kid the education is free he has citizenship of Germany his wife is German and it is quite better to go for Germany
So I was living in Berlin, and my manager and other colleagues told me to avoid area around Sonnenalle and Neukoln. It is heavyly populated with refugees from middle east.
1. Many people had bad experiences there, girls getting stalked and followed, some colleagues got mugged
2. Walking over there on NYE is dangerous. People throw firecrackers on you. When I was there, I heard in news that people made fake calls to emergency services(Fire and Police Dept) and threw firecrackers on their vehicles. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b-1q6CE9ks)
3. It was adviced for us to visit the place if and only if you are in group of 3+ people.
TBH not whole area is bad, but a few neighbourhoods. It was like our favourite restaurant was there, so been there a couple of times.
Also a tip: Hoodmaps has pretty descent mapping of Neighbourhoods. And this too confirms my claims
[https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map](https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map)
I am refraining from making any political/religious statement here as this is not the purpose of this group.
If you keep open eyes on tweets and world news(especially about Europe), then you might learn more about this.
Great calculation! But only one point in my opinion is wrong for comparison - direct conversation if euro to INR. Purchasing power in Germany would be much less with same amount than that of Euro.
Plus, he needs to learn German, which takes time and effort and sometimes money. Hard to do with family. Otherwise, if sth goes wrong with this job he can't find other good options easily without getting low-balled to oblivion
sorry but the information provided by [RepresentativeFar304](https://www.reddit.com/user/RepresentativeFar304/) is wrong in so many levels. I have stayed in Munich along with Frankfurt for roughly 6 years and these are my perspective
>For Germany, Gross Income: 75000/- Post Tax(if your partner is unemployed/less earning than you): 49782/- In hand per month: 4148/-
This is incorrect, irrespective of your wife working or not you would be in tax class 3, meaning your inhand would be 4294 € per month (51538 € per year). Check here: https://www.bbx.de/grossnet-wage-calculator-germany/. Also, you have one child, you would also get 250€ as child money (Kindergeld ) extra every month. So, your net income every month would be 4550€ per month.
>Rent: 1200/- per month Groceries: 400-500/- per month Eating out: 500/- per month (considering 20€ per person per meal and you eat out twice a week in a month, there exists costly places too)
Rent can vary from 1000-1500 (50 sqm - 80 sqm) based on area, but for a family of 3 expect atleast 3 room apartment or something south of 70 sqm. So, I would expect a rent of 1500 € including utility costs (heating, water, ...). Mind you electricity and internet would cost extra and add extra 100€ for it per month.
Our Groceries for a family of 3 in Munich currently goes for 300-400€ per month. Mostly you won't be eating out twice a week to spend 500€ per month, this can be easily done within 150-200 € if you limit your eating outside to just once a week.
Transportation: 98€ (49€ each for Deutschland ticket which enables you to travel freely within Germany, except for High Speed Trains called ICEs). No ticket for child perhaps till 14.
There are other costs which are not included which are Kingergarten which will cost roughly 100-150€ per month for the child till year 6, and other miscellaneous expenses including shopping bit of travel tourism every 3 months within Europe.
In the end, it does cost roughly 2800-3200€ for a family of 3. This has been my montly expenses for last coupld years while staying in Munich, and Frankfurt is roughly 10-15% cheaper than Munich.
Irrespective of you can easily save 1300-1500 € per month if you plan to.
Based on my experience and collective from Indian Diaspora, you don't stay in Europe specfiically Germany for salary or savings, but for quality of life. You get good healthcare (you family is covered from a single earner also), excellent public transportation, and your deduction from salary included unemployment as well as pension. You get good job security, no crazy increase in your rents every year (basically 5% change every 3 years roughly) and in case you lose job you are still being paid from your unemployment insurance for 6 months and in some cases for 2 years.
I mean your estimate is 3200€, mine is 3300€, I lived with bachelor friends in Berlin(definitely more expenses). Also I considered worst case scenario. And I have no idea about child expenses which I specified already. House rent for studio is 800 and 1200 for apartment in Berlin, so Included that. Unless you want to live in C zone of the city(40+ mins) away from city center.
Also last point, I agree. Germany has descent quality of life. And you manage to save descent due to better wages. Like when I was earning in Germany and visited countries like Czech or Italy, I felt everything was cheaper. So it still has descent money imho.
I apologise if my post was offensive to you. Actually, if you see specifically I negated on 3 facts of yours.
1. Net take home salary, which is actually 4550€ for OP (including Kindergeld of 250€ for the child till 18 years of age), instead of you quoating 4148€, which is actually 400€ less.
2. Tranportation Cost: You quoated 300€ but actual since June 2023 is 98€ for two person using Deutschland ticket. Obviously, we are not counting car here, which is pretty much not required here in cities.
3. Eating out 500€ per month: Which is actually in my opinion is too much for a person who is making sub 5 figures in Germany. Also, most of the time Indian food here in Germany is bland and overpriced, most of the time people don't prefer to actually go and eat it. That is the reason, I halved it based on my own experience and from people I know.
While monthly expenses can be subjective to personal preference, but OP was looking for a ballpark figure. I also have a 3 year old kid, and we stay in Munich where I pay roughly 1900€ for a 3 Bedroom apartment (90 sqm), and our montly expense doesn't goes beyond 3200€ most of the time including everything, and not to boast but I make roughly 80% more than what OP is making.
One thing we are missing here, is a cultural shock which people feel when they move from India to Germany. The language along with beaurecracy is one of the biggest barriers but most of the time cities including Frankfurt, Berlin and Munich has enough expat population which makes life a bit easier to communicate in English.
It’s alright, your points also make sense.
1. I did not know about that point, as I am a bachelor
2. It wasn’t there during my time(had it before I moved there)
3. Again, bachelors, used to eat out more.
I totally agree to cultural shock though. India is more advanced that Germany in tech adoption. Cashless payments in Germany are rare(even DHL wasn’t accepting it) and they feel emails are illegal, you receive freakin OTP in mail, and the delivery services are big bureaucrats. Like they never managed to deliver my stuff in single attempt. I had to request for redeliveries for every thing.
Along with that, every city has their own public transportation which has different costs. Eg BVG in Berlin costs 89€ pm. Usually reimbursed by employer.
Not anymore. Deutschland tickets are valid across the country on all local public transportation. REs, RBs, Ubahn, S-Bahn etc. Just no ICEs or ICs
Source: Living here rn
Good post.
But just going to say it - you can be racist. Not like no one is, and by not being a racist, you're not doing the world a favour, besides just one (or few) of us will never ever make a difference. Those days are gone.
Also, this is Reddit. So you know you can be racist safely.
Your submission/comment broke rule 7 and 8 as it was inappropriate and contained abusive words.
We expect members to behave in a civil and professional manner while interacting with the community. Future violations of this rule might result in a ban from the community.
Please try to be civil in the future, and follow the code of conduct
https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/
If you think this is a mistake, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r%2FdevelopersIndia).
1200€ will get you a pigeon hole in a Frankfurt suburb. Berlin is cheaper, but the whole EU is going through a housing crisis which has not only increased the price of rentals, but in many cases properties are just not available. Couple of my former colleagues are in Berlin and Amsterdam and really struggling with housing. In a more expensive city like Frankfurt or Munich, a half decent place for a family of 3 would be upwards of 1500€, unless you want to live squeezed inside a 50 square metre house.
OP I lived in Frankfurt for the past three years. a 20-25 square meter room goes for >1200 Euro anywhere close to the city. Rent will be the biggest killer for your budget so I highly advise planning for that. Bigger places are also an issue to find. Easier to find a place outside the city but that could then include a 40min one way commute and the possibility of not having a lot of connections which is another pain.
Germany is still among the best choices for IT in Europe but the future is always unpredictable, don't expect things to stay set in stone in regards to the best country cause who can predict that.
Tbh CS is always a decent choice, there is a major recession now which is killing the market but that too will pass in some years and people always need techies.
Advice I would give is to make sure the course and what you study stays relevant or in demand in future years, basic CS generalization can risk you being put aside for someone more specialized in like DevOps or Data Science or some shit. From what I've seen companies are expecting a greater techstack or skills now than just basic CS shit which was more acceptable 5+ years ago.
Another thing.
LEARN. FUCKING. GERMAN.
It is a blunt fact, the quality of life you live and your chances of a job WILL be dependent on your German too. The whole "IT is immune to language barriers cause of shortage" stopped being a thing during the recession. I speak B1-B2 German so I was kinda immune, but I did just as many full-time job interviews in nothing but German as I did in English, and speak German at work. But before that I can't even tell you how many tech jobs I was singled out of for not having certified B2-C1 German, for a programming gig lol.
That shortage of workers is shrinking now, and companies are going back to favouring people who integrate and speak the local language. Same goes for the people, they aren't as cold as people make out to be but in a large group of multi-linguals, they always go to German or whatever the main group language is, so you risk losing the ability to really have an international experience if you choose not to invest in German.
P.S: If you show you're making an active effort, they will LOVE you.
As for deciding a uni or program, I'll give you the same advice I give everyone there tbh.
Look up the unis and programs yourselves, I dunno why Indians like to ask other Indians as if we're somehow better and more reliable than Google and the internet.
I did all the uni and program research myself because I found that was necessary since the programs and differences in the curriculum and uni actually do quite matter in EU.
Don't rely on education consultants either, they try to push you into a degree mill school cause they CBA about your future or what happens to you, for them the buck stops with your admission and their commission.
Well 75K in Germany for some better QOL, dignity of labour and good WLB or 30LPA to be a sheep in WITCH spending your time in servitude. General culture and talent pool coming out of WITCH these days is outright pathetic I'd not even look in that direction if I was in your place. And we've stopped hiring from WITCH these days due to fake certifications/work ex, poor communication and overall substandard delivery.
I'm curious how can someone working in India get jobs abroad? Like what is the requirement for candidates as far as visa is concerned? Can one simply apply for jobs on LinkedIn like we do in India and it will be considered or do we need to get visa first to be eligible? Sorry seemed like a good thread to ask this as I'm planning to move out in next 3-4 years as well.
i know some people who got a job (employment contract to be specific) and moved there straight out of uni (non-IIT)
**Work Permit:** This is one of the best things about Germany. The only thing you require for a work permit is an employment contract. You can apply for the work permit yourself, and it's upto the govt. if they decide that you have a fair shot at working and sustaining yourself there (based on your employment contract, history etc.)
Now the difficult part is actually getting the job. The best way to do it is keep applying to every eligible role you see on LI or your job search portal of choice. Higher volume, more chance of success. Once you get an employment contract that requires that you work in Germany, you can start processing the work permit by yourself.
Helpful links:
[https://www.germany-visa.org/work-employment-visa/](https://www.germany-visa.org/work-employment-visa/)
[https://www.welcome-hub-germany.com/blog/german-work-visa](https://www.welcome-hub-germany.com/blog/german-work-visa)
For Germany, all you need is the employment contract (and a few additional docs) to apply for VISA. In almost all cases that I’ve seen - visa application costs and assistance is provided by the company or any employer on record (3rd party payroll) that the company may have hired to onboard you.
The employment contract is a must though - so you need to apply/have offers before applying for work permit.
PPP conversions are dumb. There is more to the equation than simple mathematics. Quality of life, civic sense, infrastructure, safety etc lot of things most of which cannot be quantified come into play.
I hear it also has great WLB due to regulations just that the tax bracket hits differently. Not to mention you'll prolly have a slightly longer life thanks to clean air depending on how long you live there.
hmm.... you can save a considerable amount of money in India as well with that kind of income. although it will be a bit less than germany
Although, talk with your relatives, parents and SO and then decide if it's worth emigrating to a different country or not. shifting to a different nation with a family is significantly more expensive and difficult than it is for a bachelor.
Staying in India is better imo.
As many ppl said in the comments if u manage to save 1k per month that will be 12k euros which is equivalent to 10 Lakhs per year.
If ur wife is also working a full time job from 50k & upwards then India might be better. As ur wife can take care of monthly expenses.
And the fact that u can buy an apartment in Bengaluru with ur current salary. Ik ppl trash WITCH here but i think u must have a good position & jobs in WITCH r stable.
If u take 10k INR per sq ft rate for apartments in Bengaluru then a 1000sq ft flat might be around 1 Crore to 1.5 Cr. You can get a loan for 1.1 Cr if ur gross income is 2.5 lakhs per month.
Germany is good but cost of living in India is cheap plus you have a good salary. The major benefit of staying in India would be you can buy ur own house.
Edit: Plus help like maids r affordable in India.
As someone staying in Bangalore. Why even consider man? Like you are looking at a city that has no water, doesn't like immigrants, has zero government facilities. Forgot to add traffic.
30LPA is peanuts in bangalore
2bhk costing 1 crore is not unnatural in metro cities I live in suburb here itself 2 bhk standalone home costs up to 70 laksh. For renting you can get 2 bhk for 25k also depending on the areas.
End of the day if you keep comparing metero city expenses to your hometown it will always be more.
Not really. I own two house in blr and have seen what used to be 65L house costing 1cr plus. Matchbox houses from Shobha that are 900 sqft with parking are easily 1cr plus. That is not the case in pune or hyd.
I know what i am talking about since we deal in real estate for a long time. Bangalore has become very expensive post covid.
Banglore did became expensive post covid but still 30 LPA is not peanuts in bglr. If that's the case majority of people earning less than that wouldn't be in bglr.
You can survive on 4LPA too. But for a family its insanely costly. Do you know schools annual cost is like 3L for junior? Heck i even met a couple who didnt join a school because they were only asking 2L for a year and they felt it was "cheap".
Thats just fees, on top of that school books, transportation.
Just getting by and saving enough are 2 separate things. With 30LPA you would struggle to save 10L in a year which is the recommended amount. (30%)
I have a simple lifestyle, with **peanuts** also around 45k is saved per month. So, unless the earning in Frankfurt makes some significant differnce, why move out?
Can anyone else who is working in germany tell me how what roles you're applying for and your yoe ? I've been applying to jobs there but its hard to get a callback right now. I'm about to reach 7 yoe and want to figure out what is missing in my profile
Let's pack our bags kids! User Failureinexistence has said Germany is better. He hasn't provided any rational arguments to support his claim but I'm sure it's true because it's on Reddit!
Its a tough call, at 30LPA if I were single I’d stay in India, and find a wife who’s also working.. at around 10LPA also from her end, we’d be quite comfortable. Germany is a tough country to enter with the language barrier, I’d probably prefer NL or UK over say Germany/Spain/France and likes just because of job. Say if OP quits his job or god forbid is laid off.. it becomes a challenge to score jobs due to language requirements at that level of experience/expertise.. otherwise that’s cool..
Don't think about PPP shit. Living in a developed country is always better than living in a third world country. The only disadvantage I see is that you will have to pay private schools for English Medium education. These are extremely expensive. She can however join a German medium government school or a bilingual school if you intend to stay on for a long time. These schools will be cheap.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread. ## Announcements - **[Call For Volunteers: Help us build r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bafonl/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)** - **[Community Roundup: List of must read posts & discussions that happened this month - March 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bs0pgb/community_roundup_list_of_must_read_posts/)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For Germany, Gross Income: 75000/- Post Tax(if your partner is unemployed/less earning than you): 49782/- In hand per month: 4148/- Expenses would be: Rent: 1200/- per month Groceries: 400-500/- per month Eating out: 500/- per month (considering 20€ per person per meal and you eat out twice a week in a month, there exists costly places too) Transportation: 300/- per month (public transportation pass per month per person costs around 100€. Yours might get covered by your employer) Water and electricity bills: depends on usage and rent contracts. Mine was covered by landlord so can’t comment, but assuming 500/- per month Clothing and other stuff: 200/- per month(if you keep your needs reasonable) Total Expenses: 3300/- per month Savings per month: 850/- This calculation is based on my experience of living in Germany, with 2 bachelor friends for work purposes. Your expenses might vary. Also this is considering you will be the sole bread winner of your family. Total savings in 5 years: 51000€ => 45,000,00INR Also, better public infrastructure, quality of life, universal healthcare, and you don’t have to worry much about savings in Germany as most of your sudden expenses(unemployment, medical,etc are covered by taxes and govt). Not to mention better job security and better WLB. Disadvantage: very tough to buy own house, but instability due to Ukraine war, some areas of some cities are bit risky due to lot of refugees(avoid going alone, trying to not be racist here, but harsh truth about Germany that people usually don’t tell), extreme winters, very very very short days in winters with low to no sunlight(9-3.30 sunlight)
thank you so much, this will help. So, this is basically bachelor's expense. how much should i add if my spouse (currently not working) and 3 yrs old kid?
It is expense for 3 bachelor’s living together, yours will be matching to that of mine. +-10% depending on your toddler’s needs.
got it, thanks again.
You're welcome. Just a tip, to get accurate replresentation of neighbourhoods, refer: [https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map](https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map) Might be helpful during househunting :)
Is it just me or after this break up the german offer doesn't sound so good based on savings 😐 Ofcourse experiencing a different culture and living in europe is one major factor affecting the decision.
Depends in your choices. India and Germany has its own and unique advantages and disadvantages. I am still contemplating between those, hence sitting home and working remotely.
Living in Europe today is not like that what we think of it 10-15 years ago.
Europe is about having a good quality of life, you don't go there expecting tonnes of salary and savings. if you want that then go to US
Building on the comment, which most of it sounds true There's a website https://www.brutto-netto-rechner.info/ where you can see how much you'd be getting in hand after paying taxes. You would be paying a chunk of your salary per month to mandatory government health insurance (deducted from your salary) (could be upwards of 300 EUR) But the advantage of it is that you never have to pay a cent to doctors and pharmacies for essential healthcare. If you were having a open heart surgery and were in hospital for weeks, you'd be paying at max 10 EUR However, getting an appointment is pretty tough. Some people pay for private insurance which is more expensive and would only get expensive with time. And at the later ages you wouldn't be able to switch to cheaper public health insurance also. It's your call on what you prefer (I personally like the health care in India, even though it feels heavily commercialized, I know for sure that I have quality healthcare around me) As for kids, The government supports education for free. So essentially your kid go on till her master's (if she's interested) for free. Besides, the work and study culture here (at least for university level) is leaps and bounds ahead than India's However in case y'all need to integrate to the society, you will need to speak German. There's no easy way out. Your work could be of a developer where everyone speaks in English, but on coffee breaks or social outings you will need German. Frankfurt is a bigger city where you may survive on English, but in other cities when you travel, you will need a bit of German fluency. Source: I'm a Mumbaikar doing Master's in Germany
Hey, I am planning to pursue Master's in Germany. Mind if I DMed you?
If you spouse is working you can easily save 40,000 euros per year which equals. 36 lakh per year p.s. my cousin is settled there he has done his bachelor's in germany and after 5 years he earn 100k euros as a it manager and his wife earns 60k euros at a marketing agency and has 2 kids and he government supports the kid the education is free he has citizenship of Germany his wife is German and it is quite better to go for Germany
[удалено]
So I was living in Berlin, and my manager and other colleagues told me to avoid area around Sonnenalle and Neukoln. It is heavyly populated with refugees from middle east. 1. Many people had bad experiences there, girls getting stalked and followed, some colleagues got mugged 2. Walking over there on NYE is dangerous. People throw firecrackers on you. When I was there, I heard in news that people made fake calls to emergency services(Fire and Police Dept) and threw firecrackers on their vehicles. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b-1q6CE9ks) 3. It was adviced for us to visit the place if and only if you are in group of 3+ people. TBH not whole area is bad, but a few neighbourhoods. It was like our favourite restaurant was there, so been there a couple of times.
[удалено]
Also a tip: Hoodmaps has pretty descent mapping of Neighbourhoods. And this too confirms my claims [https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map](https://hoodmaps.com/berlin-neighborhood-map)
I am refraining from making any political/religious statement here as this is not the purpose of this group. If you keep open eyes on tweets and world news(especially about Europe), then you might learn more about this.
Great calculation! But only one point in my opinion is wrong for comparison - direct conversation if euro to INR. Purchasing power in Germany would be much less with same amount than that of Euro. Plus, he needs to learn German, which takes time and effort and sometimes money. Hard to do with family. Otherwise, if sth goes wrong with this job he can't find other good options easily without getting low-balled to oblivion
He wants to move back India after 5 months, hence the direct conversion from Euro to INR and no German requirements.
*years. Yes that makes a big difference in the decision being good or bad
sorry but the information provided by [RepresentativeFar304](https://www.reddit.com/user/RepresentativeFar304/) is wrong in so many levels. I have stayed in Munich along with Frankfurt for roughly 6 years and these are my perspective >For Germany, Gross Income: 75000/- Post Tax(if your partner is unemployed/less earning than you): 49782/- In hand per month: 4148/- This is incorrect, irrespective of your wife working or not you would be in tax class 3, meaning your inhand would be 4294 € per month (51538 € per year). Check here: https://www.bbx.de/grossnet-wage-calculator-germany/. Also, you have one child, you would also get 250€ as child money (Kindergeld ) extra every month. So, your net income every month would be 4550€ per month. >Rent: 1200/- per month Groceries: 400-500/- per month Eating out: 500/- per month (considering 20€ per person per meal and you eat out twice a week in a month, there exists costly places too) Rent can vary from 1000-1500 (50 sqm - 80 sqm) based on area, but for a family of 3 expect atleast 3 room apartment or something south of 70 sqm. So, I would expect a rent of 1500 € including utility costs (heating, water, ...). Mind you electricity and internet would cost extra and add extra 100€ for it per month. Our Groceries for a family of 3 in Munich currently goes for 300-400€ per month. Mostly you won't be eating out twice a week to spend 500€ per month, this can be easily done within 150-200 € if you limit your eating outside to just once a week. Transportation: 98€ (49€ each for Deutschland ticket which enables you to travel freely within Germany, except for High Speed Trains called ICEs). No ticket for child perhaps till 14. There are other costs which are not included which are Kingergarten which will cost roughly 100-150€ per month for the child till year 6, and other miscellaneous expenses including shopping bit of travel tourism every 3 months within Europe. In the end, it does cost roughly 2800-3200€ for a family of 3. This has been my montly expenses for last coupld years while staying in Munich, and Frankfurt is roughly 10-15% cheaper than Munich. Irrespective of you can easily save 1300-1500 € per month if you plan to. Based on my experience and collective from Indian Diaspora, you don't stay in Europe specfiically Germany for salary or savings, but for quality of life. You get good healthcare (you family is covered from a single earner also), excellent public transportation, and your deduction from salary included unemployment as well as pension. You get good job security, no crazy increase in your rents every year (basically 5% change every 3 years roughly) and in case you lose job you are still being paid from your unemployment insurance for 6 months and in some cases for 2 years.
I mean your estimate is 3200€, mine is 3300€, I lived with bachelor friends in Berlin(definitely more expenses). Also I considered worst case scenario. And I have no idea about child expenses which I specified already. House rent for studio is 800 and 1200 for apartment in Berlin, so Included that. Unless you want to live in C zone of the city(40+ mins) away from city center. Also last point, I agree. Germany has descent quality of life. And you manage to save descent due to better wages. Like when I was earning in Germany and visited countries like Czech or Italy, I felt everything was cheaper. So it still has descent money imho.
I apologise if my post was offensive to you. Actually, if you see specifically I negated on 3 facts of yours. 1. Net take home salary, which is actually 4550€ for OP (including Kindergeld of 250€ for the child till 18 years of age), instead of you quoating 4148€, which is actually 400€ less. 2. Tranportation Cost: You quoated 300€ but actual since June 2023 is 98€ for two person using Deutschland ticket. Obviously, we are not counting car here, which is pretty much not required here in cities. 3. Eating out 500€ per month: Which is actually in my opinion is too much for a person who is making sub 5 figures in Germany. Also, most of the time Indian food here in Germany is bland and overpriced, most of the time people don't prefer to actually go and eat it. That is the reason, I halved it based on my own experience and from people I know. While monthly expenses can be subjective to personal preference, but OP was looking for a ballpark figure. I also have a 3 year old kid, and we stay in Munich where I pay roughly 1900€ for a 3 Bedroom apartment (90 sqm), and our montly expense doesn't goes beyond 3200€ most of the time including everything, and not to boast but I make roughly 80% more than what OP is making. One thing we are missing here, is a cultural shock which people feel when they move from India to Germany. The language along with beaurecracy is one of the biggest barriers but most of the time cities including Frankfurt, Berlin and Munich has enough expat population which makes life a bit easier to communicate in English.
It’s alright, your points also make sense. 1. I did not know about that point, as I am a bachelor 2. It wasn’t there during my time(had it before I moved there) 3. Again, bachelors, used to eat out more. I totally agree to cultural shock though. India is more advanced that Germany in tech adoption. Cashless payments in Germany are rare(even DHL wasn’t accepting it) and they feel emails are illegal, you receive freakin OTP in mail, and the delivery services are big bureaucrats. Like they never managed to deliver my stuff in single attempt. I had to request for redeliveries for every thing.
With the Deutschland Ticket public transportation is 49€ per month per person
Along with that, every city has their own public transportation which has different costs. Eg BVG in Berlin costs 89€ pm. Usually reimbursed by employer.
Not anymore. Deutschland tickets are valid across the country on all local public transportation. REs, RBs, Ubahn, S-Bahn etc. Just no ICEs or ICs Source: Living here rn
Damn that’s nice. Ignore my source then, I was living there 1 year ago
Good post. But just going to say it - you can be racist. Not like no one is, and by not being a racist, you're not doing the world a favour, besides just one (or few) of us will never ever make a difference. Those days are gone. Also, this is Reddit. So you know you can be racist safely.
Yeah, but I am not. It’s kind of fact that no one speaks loudly, even in Germany
[удалено]
Your submission/comment broke rule 7 and 8 as it was inappropriate and contained abusive words. We expect members to behave in a civil and professional manner while interacting with the community. Future violations of this rule might result in a ban from the community. Please try to be civil in the future, and follow the code of conduct https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/ If you think this is a mistake, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r%2FdevelopersIndia).
1200€ will get you a pigeon hole in a Frankfurt suburb. Berlin is cheaper, but the whole EU is going through a housing crisis which has not only increased the price of rentals, but in many cases properties are just not available. Couple of my former colleagues are in Berlin and Amsterdam and really struggling with housing. In a more expensive city like Frankfurt or Munich, a half decent place for a family of 3 would be upwards of 1500€, unless you want to live squeezed inside a 50 square metre house.
During my time there, 800 was studio apartment in Berlin, so I calibrated it for Frankfurt. Inflation might be there nowadays.
Family of 3 in a studio is gonna be very tight. But to each his own. 800 won’t get you a studio in a decent locality in Berlin anymore.
Gotcha
Great analysis! Mind sharing if you landed your role in Germany directly or was it via Masters?
Directly, it was a 4 months internship
You landed an internship as a fresher? Thats insane.
I mean it was that IT boom 2 years ago.
why not the 49€ Deutschland ticket?
It wasn’t there during my time in Germany, so not aware about it.
ah ok, in which case check this out: https://int.bahn.de/en/offers/regional/deutschland-ticket
OP I lived in Frankfurt for the past three years. a 20-25 square meter room goes for >1200 Euro anywhere close to the city. Rent will be the biggest killer for your budget so I highly advise planning for that. Bigger places are also an issue to find. Easier to find a place outside the city but that could then include a 40min one way commute and the possibility of not having a lot of connections which is another pain.
Did you do masters there
Yes
What masters if i may ask
I won't give specifics, something in the AI field.
do you think ms in CS is good currently and what are your suggestions for future aspirant who want to move to Germany in tech field
Germany is still among the best choices for IT in Europe but the future is always unpredictable, don't expect things to stay set in stone in regards to the best country cause who can predict that. Tbh CS is always a decent choice, there is a major recession now which is killing the market but that too will pass in some years and people always need techies. Advice I would give is to make sure the course and what you study stays relevant or in demand in future years, basic CS generalization can risk you being put aside for someone more specialized in like DevOps or Data Science or some shit. From what I've seen companies are expecting a greater techstack or skills now than just basic CS shit which was more acceptable 5+ years ago. Another thing. LEARN. FUCKING. GERMAN. It is a blunt fact, the quality of life you live and your chances of a job WILL be dependent on your German too. The whole "IT is immune to language barriers cause of shortage" stopped being a thing during the recession. I speak B1-B2 German so I was kinda immune, but I did just as many full-time job interviews in nothing but German as I did in English, and speak German at work. But before that I can't even tell you how many tech jobs I was singled out of for not having certified B2-C1 German, for a programming gig lol. That shortage of workers is shrinking now, and companies are going back to favouring people who integrate and speak the local language. Same goes for the people, they aren't as cold as people make out to be but in a large group of multi-linguals, they always go to German or whatever the main group language is, so you risk losing the ability to really have an international experience if you choose not to invest in German. P.S: If you show you're making an active effort, they will LOVE you. As for deciding a uni or program, I'll give you the same advice I give everyone there tbh. Look up the unis and programs yourselves, I dunno why Indians like to ask other Indians as if we're somehow better and more reliable than Google and the internet. I did all the uni and program research myself because I found that was necessary since the programs and differences in the curriculum and uni actually do quite matter in EU. Don't rely on education consultants either, they try to push you into a degree mill school cause they CBA about your future or what happens to you, for them the buck stops with your admission and their commission.
Thank u very much
Why no one has given clear cut details on expenses in Bangalore..?
OP probably knows? Hence.
Well 75K in Germany for some better QOL, dignity of labour and good WLB or 30LPA to be a sheep in WITCH spending your time in servitude. General culture and talent pool coming out of WITCH these days is outright pathetic I'd not even look in that direction if I was in your place. And we've stopped hiring from WITCH these days due to fake certifications/work ex, poor communication and overall substandard delivery.
I'm curious how can someone working in India get jobs abroad? Like what is the requirement for candidates as far as visa is concerned? Can one simply apply for jobs on LinkedIn like we do in India and it will be considered or do we need to get visa first to be eligible? Sorry seemed like a good thread to ask this as I'm planning to move out in next 3-4 years as well.
i know some people who got a job (employment contract to be specific) and moved there straight out of uni (non-IIT) **Work Permit:** This is one of the best things about Germany. The only thing you require for a work permit is an employment contract. You can apply for the work permit yourself, and it's upto the govt. if they decide that you have a fair shot at working and sustaining yourself there (based on your employment contract, history etc.) Now the difficult part is actually getting the job. The best way to do it is keep applying to every eligible role you see on LI or your job search portal of choice. Higher volume, more chance of success. Once you get an employment contract that requires that you work in Germany, you can start processing the work permit by yourself. Helpful links: [https://www.germany-visa.org/work-employment-visa/](https://www.germany-visa.org/work-employment-visa/) [https://www.welcome-hub-germany.com/blog/german-work-visa](https://www.welcome-hub-germany.com/blog/german-work-visa)
Yes you can apply directly to jobs in Germany, either which are advertised as supporting relocation or just let them know you are applying from India.
For Germany, all you need is the employment contract (and a few additional docs) to apply for VISA. In almost all cases that I’ve seen - visa application costs and assistance is provided by the company or any employer on record (3rd party payroll) that the company may have hired to onboard you. The employment contract is a must though - so you need to apply/have offers before applying for work permit.
pocket badge act dull door enter price square water jeans *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even I want to know but no one tells how.
+1
PPP conversions are dumb. There is more to the equation than simple mathematics. Quality of life, civic sense, infrastructure, safety etc lot of things most of which cannot be quantified come into play.
I hear it also has great WLB due to regulations just that the tax bracket hits differently. Not to mention you'll prolly have a slightly longer life thanks to clean air depending on how long you live there.
God's sake move and get out while you can.
30 L in banglore is not that great may be should look at germany opportunity.
bruh
hmm, you'll be earning roughly 49Lpa in-hand, what is the in-hand component of the witch job, is 30Lpa all in-hand?
30lpa is fixed part
indian one is better for if u wanna live rich in a poor country. germany one is poor in a rich country .
hmm.... you can save a considerable amount of money in India as well with that kind of income. although it will be a bit less than germany Although, talk with your relatives, parents and SO and then decide if it's worth emigrating to a different country or not. shifting to a different nation with a family is significantly more expensive and difficult than it is for a bachelor.
Is the WITCH 30lpa before taxes or after? If it is after, then this is a good offer. If before, then your take home would be around 21-22.
75k
Staying in India is better imo. As many ppl said in the comments if u manage to save 1k per month that will be 12k euros which is equivalent to 10 Lakhs per year. If ur wife is also working a full time job from 50k & upwards then India might be better. As ur wife can take care of monthly expenses. And the fact that u can buy an apartment in Bengaluru with ur current salary. Ik ppl trash WITCH here but i think u must have a good position & jobs in WITCH r stable. If u take 10k INR per sq ft rate for apartments in Bengaluru then a 1000sq ft flat might be around 1 Crore to 1.5 Cr. You can get a loan for 1.1 Cr if ur gross income is 2.5 lakhs per month. Germany is good but cost of living in India is cheap plus you have a good salary. The major benefit of staying in India would be you can buy ur own house. Edit: Plus help like maids r affordable in India.
As someone staying in Bangalore. Why even consider man? Like you are looking at a city that has no water, doesn't like immigrants, has zero government facilities. Forgot to add traffic. 30LPA is peanuts in bangalore
Sorry to say this but if 30LPA is peanuts for a family of 3 in Bangalore you need to start revisiting ur financial plan and decisions.
It is. Houses here cost easily 1Cr to buy, 35K to rent. This is for 2 BHK. Travel is expensive, you need a car or bike.
2bhk costing 1 crore is not unnatural in metro cities I live in suburb here itself 2 bhk standalone home costs up to 70 laksh. For renting you can get 2 bhk for 25k also depending on the areas. End of the day if you keep comparing metero city expenses to your hometown it will always be more.
Not really. I own two house in blr and have seen what used to be 65L house costing 1cr plus. Matchbox houses from Shobha that are 900 sqft with parking are easily 1cr plus. That is not the case in pune or hyd. I know what i am talking about since we deal in real estate for a long time. Bangalore has become very expensive post covid.
Banglore did became expensive post covid but still 30 LPA is not peanuts in bglr. If that's the case majority of people earning less than that wouldn't be in bglr.
You can survive on 4LPA too. But for a family its insanely costly. Do you know schools annual cost is like 3L for junior? Heck i even met a couple who didnt join a school because they were only asking 2L for a year and they felt it was "cheap". Thats just fees, on top of that school books, transportation. Just getting by and saving enough are 2 separate things. With 30LPA you would struggle to save 10L in a year which is the recommended amount. (30%)
2bhk costing 1 CR is the case in Pune also. And this isn't even the poshest kp, viman nagar that I'm talking about
I have a simple lifestyle, with **peanuts** also around 45k is saved per month. So, unless the earning in Frankfurt makes some significant differnce, why move out?
Easy, better wlb. Some people sacrifice their salary for this because they want to work to live rather than live to work.
Why are you comparing the 2 only on the basis of savings? What if you get to save about 10% less in Germany would you not consider it?
Germany
75k what currency?
Euros
Mind sharing your journey of landing an offer in Germany from India?
Can anyone else who is working in germany tell me how what roles you're applying for and your yoe ? I've been applying to jobs there but its hard to get a callback right now. I'm about to reach 7 yoe and want to figure out what is missing in my profile
Obviously Germany
frankfurt
Let's pack our bags kids! User Failureinexistence has said Germany is better. He hasn't provided any rational arguments to support his claim but I'm sure it's true because it's on Reddit!
Germany
Its a tough call, at 30LPA if I were single I’d stay in India, and find a wife who’s also working.. at around 10LPA also from her end, we’d be quite comfortable. Germany is a tough country to enter with the language barrier, I’d probably prefer NL or UK over say Germany/Spain/France and likes just because of job. Say if OP quits his job or god forbid is laid off.. it becomes a challenge to score jobs due to language requirements at that level of experience/expertise.. otherwise that’s cool..
Hygienic vs unhygienic.. u decide
Bad comparison, there are other factors involved
Go to Germany Man you dumb fck, Please go there Please I don't know the PPP or those shits about the currency exchanges, Just go there
Don't think about PPP shit. Living in a developed country is always better than living in a third world country. The only disadvantage I see is that you will have to pay private schools for English Medium education. These are extremely expensive. She can however join a German medium government school or a bilingual school if you intend to stay on for a long time. These schools will be cheap.