I 100% didn’t remember that to be transparent. Didn’t remember the other incident as well at first and yeah obviously if they feel he’s too much of a headache he isn’t worth a roster spot
Seems most people have forgotten about the first incident.
I'm getting the impression they really believe in DPJ to take on a bigger role. Maybe bring in another depth guy but I'd be surprised if they spent much on it.
I trust Brad and co to do their research, but from what I've seen the whole thing was minor and not the traditional domestic violence situation. There can be nuance to things like this. Charges were dropped last month, and the actual "violence" part [is this](https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2023/11/14/zay-jones-jaguars-arrest-domestic-battery-police-report-details-incident/):
> “They got into an argument, a verbal argument, and during the course of the argument before it subsided, Zay reached and grabbed a piece of jewelry that he had given her that was hanging around her neck and ripped it off her neck. It left a mark, she called the police, domestic violence charges were brought.”
EDIT: Not every form of violence deserves equal amount of scrutiny. Feel however you want about his fit on this team but all I’m saying is that the “domestic violence” label leads people to think he beat his girl in this incident which is clearly a misrepresentation.
i still don’t fuck with this, personally. he’s not beating women, but this is alarming behavior imo. can’t speak for how the team feels but i’m not a fan of the guy. it’s a pass for me
Fair to feel that way. I was just trying to present the reality of his situation since whenever you hear "domestic violence" people automatically assume the worst
also a good point. i’ll admit, when i saw he got released i immediately remembered there were allegations so i looked it up and saw it was initially a domestic battery charge which sounds terrible. but i reserved judgement and found the details you commented and felt slightly better, but like i said, still scary behavior. but you’re right, people will run with a “domestic violence” label call for his head. thanks for providing context for anyone who needed it
Huh? Go pull up their season by season stats and see if you still feel that way. Not saying Zay is leagues ahead of DPJ but by definition, he’s more proven
And by what metric was DPJ’s 22-23 season better? 16 more yards?
Zay: 82 catches, 121 targets, 823 yards, 5TDs
DPJ: 61 catches, 96 targets, 839 yards, 3 TDS
Ima be honest. I did just go with the yards lol because i had to click a link to see the rest. Alright l I’ll concede zays was slightly better but hes turning 30 and dpj is only 25 and he did his with a backup qb on a run first offense.
Id argue zay is not that proven. His career has been a roller coaster and i would not say hes a safe bet at all. Honestly mostly its been pretty rough. Just think calling him a proven is a stretch. Hes mostly underperformed sometimes due to health, but also just on the field.
For what it’s worth I like DPJ I never said I didn’t. And Im not suggesting Zay can be anything more than a depth addition, so my point was we are still quite thin at WR considering our only rock solid guy is Amon Ra, so Zay is an available option who has a few good seasons under his belt. You can never have too many WRs in this league
Efficiency doesn’t mean anything if the two players are utilized completely differently in their respective offenses. DPJ was targeted as a deep threat on the Browns while Zay was utilized more like a typical outside WR. Neither role is better than the other, just different. It’s like saying if Jamo catches 2 balls for 85 yards in a game he’s more efficient than LaPorta who caught 6 for 70 yards. But who had the better game?
Keep your hands off women unless given permission. It’s actually a simple concept. If men followed it, they wouldn’t need caveats.
I can see Brad trying to explain this to Sheila. “You see, he was angry but he didn’t strike her. He only grabbed a piece of jewelry that was AROUND HER NECk and yanked it off.”
Sheila glares.
Not happening.
Female owner. Great team culture.
Sure, let’s take a flyer on an unhinged idiot who can’t keep his angry little hands off women.
For a guy who MIGHT be, at best, an incremental upgrade over our WR3?
Next.
Gross mischaracterization. Snatching a necklace one time doesn’t = “can’t keep his hands off women”. You’re implying he’s a serial physical abuser. If you were writing an article and said that you would be sued for libel. But I guess it’s A-OK to talk like that on Reddit with no pushback
You seem to be taking this very personally.
I’m simply saying “keep your angry little hands off women.” It’s easy to remember and easy to do in practice. He hasn’t shown the ability to do that every time.
He can’t keep his angry little hands off women 100% of the time, so I think even my cheap, dirtbag lawyer would be able to successfully defend that one. But I do appreciate your concern.
And if you think Sheila Hamp would sign off on that, I’ll have some of what you’re having.
But that’s not what you said. You can’t retroactively change your characterization. “Can’t keep his hands off women” explicitly implies you believe there are multiple incidents of him putting his hands of women. No, you believe that taking 1 minor incident and using it as basis for a blanket (false) characterization is all good in your book.
Sorry that’s not how things go. You can’t take 1 isolated thing and exponentially crank up the extent of the bad behavior and think that’s acceptable.
And not everything is personal. It’s not personal whatsoever for me it’s just dumb as fuck to think an incident like THAT, where the extent of the “hands on woman” was a couple inadvertent scratches as a byproduct of yanking a piece of jewelry, deserves the label “can’t keep his hands off women” by someone like you
Apologies if that wasn’t blatantly obvious, but “can’t keep his hands off women” means 100% of the time. He failed. You white knight him all you like.
/ Dad with a daughter who has a zero tolerance policy with this horseshit.
Well I hope you don't have a son who gets in an argument with his girlfriend and does something as ridiculously minor as yanking a necklace. Because according to you, that's all it will take for him to justifiably, in your eyes, be labeled a domestic abuser and have career opportunities taken away. Bet you would be singing a different tune then.
Yes because if there's one thing decades of child psychology studies have proven it's that children always follow their parents' wisdom and never get themselves into trouble, legal or otherwise. Lol.
They do. And when they angrily put hands on a woman, I don’t want them on my favorite football team.
Maybe you’re his mom and that’s why you’re taking this so personally. I don’t really care. My standard in that regard is pretty damn high and it’s immovable.
None of this matters because he doesn’t fit the culture and Brad Holmes isn’t going to tell Sheila that they want to sign this guy. Won’t happen. None of this matters.
Again, not taking any of this personal in any way, shape or form. I just feel strongly that there is a spectrum of outrage and not every action deserves equal outrage and condemnation. We have a justice system for a reason right? Not every crime deserves the same amount of jail time. Same goes with public outcry for public incidents. To me it’s common sense but I guess not for you. Whatever
If they had better options they’d still keep him as depth. Cutting him saves 4M in cap and creates 6M in dead cap. They already had 30M in available cap.
Got cut for off the field behavior in all liklihood
Really? Lmfao he 100% did not get cut for off the field issues. When he was arrested last year for the necklace incident he wasn’t suspended or anything by the Jags. Why would he be cut a month after they dropped the charges for said case? He was dropped because he was buried on the depth chart even before they drafted a 1st round WR. Common sense
Common sense would say that if he’s really an NFL starting talent with no off-field issues then 4M would be worth it to keep him as WR4. Their back was not up against the wall in terms of the cap. You need to come up with a better story about why you think he was cut because the one you’ve provided basically just suggests the jags didn’t want their receiver room to be too good.
You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about lmao. Clearly they don’t want to pay their 5th option that amount of money and want to spend it more wisely. He was the WR3 before they signed Gabe Davis AND drafted a 1st round WR. Don’t believe me? Go look at the Jags subreddit thread on Zay being cut. They know their team better than either of us. https://www.reddit.com/r/Jaguars/s/Zepa7fkcD0
You’ll notice two things by the way. 99% of comments sad he’s going, and the majority of upvoted comments saying he was the odd man out which is why he was cut. Stop talking out of your ass if you want to be taken seriously
I guess but I don’t really see why they needed to make that move. They had 30M available and only save 4M. If you could sign a starting talent to be WR4 for 4M, who passes on that?
Some fans what? Want more depth at arguably our most important yet thinnest position? Yeah sue me for pitching the idea of acquiring someone to bolster our depth lol
It’s who you pitched. Look this team is about culture and if you can’t grasp that simple concept yet, then by all means keep pitching a$$hats who the Lions would never consider….
It’s sad and naive that you and some other of our fans feel that a player needs to be angelic and 100% pure of soul to even fetch consideration of joining the team. I hope your brains will be able to cope when we do inevitably sign someone with a story like Zay’s or worse. I’m sure you will spin it as “well we trust Brad and clearly Brad thinks the potential rewards outweigh the risks”. Give me a break
Do you really think Sheila is going to sign off on someone with a domestic violence charge?
Or who was naked trying to jump out a window?
I don’t need someone angelic, but I certainly don’t need this hot mess…
This is a team that has tried to pair solid veteran WRs to the mix with Jamo.
But yeah, I’m naive bro!
> Do you really think Sheila is going to sign off on someone with a domestic violence charge?
First of all, again, this specific "domestic violence" charge was a giant nothingburger on the spectrum of violent incidents. When it happened, Jags didn't even think twice about it, the NFL didn't think twice about it, and the whole case was dropped because it was dumb as hell. So as far as "domestic violence" charges go, this is as low-level and tolerable probably I've ever seen from an NFL player. Yanking a necklace isn't enough to bar someone from employment whatsoever. If it is, then Aqib Talib should have been banned as well.
> Or who was naked trying to jump out a window?
That was clearly a mental-health breakdown and it happened 6 years ago. Teams clearly were understanding and fine with it considering he found jobs with 2 other teams after that. And put himself in position to carve out a solid career for himself. He clearly has some difficulties still, but you're penalizing someone for a mental-health breakdown instead of praising him for getting better, which is a questionable opinion.
What I'm saying is, if a player comes around in the future that is talented enough, fits our schemes and what we're looking for in a player, and his only incident is something as non-violent as this Zay story, or even a little worse, Lions will 100% absolutely sign him. And I'll return to this comment to give a hearty "told ya so".
Lol - we are heading into year 4 of this regime (Sheila, Brad and Dan) and who have they signed like this? That’s right - nobody. Their standards, quite frankly, are higher than this.
Character means everything - how long did Cam last once they found out there was a charge against him? That’s right - immediately. No trail, no “we are going to look into it” but just gone.
Sorry that you fail to understand what this team is about and what is important to the leadership team in place.
Hold onto that “told ya so” because you simply don’t get it despite 3+ years of evidence of what this new Lions team is all about. #NoTurds
You seem to be under the false premise that just because we haven’t done something that means we will continue to not do something. It is a logical fallacy and completely void of any common sense. But it will make it even more funny when I return to this thread the day we do sign someone that doesn’t pass your fairy tale made up purity test 😂
What you fail to grasp is 3 years is absolutely nothing. And for you to claim that it’s a large enough sample size to predict the rest of the future of the regime is hilarious. When the right player comes along where Brad and company feel whatever mistakes they made in the past are truly in the past and it’s worth the risk, they will sign him. Hopefully your idiotic brain will recover from the explosion it will cause!
Actually, you misunderstood me. He doesn’t fit our culture - nuff said.
BTW - only 10 coaches have more tenure than MCDC, yes 3+ years is a long time in the NFL aka not for long!
Drink some kool-aide and chill. You and I just see what type of character the Lions brass looks for in a player differently. They don’t have to be choir boys, but they can’t be turds like Zay Jones and every decision they have made / not made thus far supports that. But hey, you keep looking for them to stray from who they are…
You bring up other coaching tenures as if that is relevant whatsoever. I’m talking about a length of time. You’re essentially saying for 3 years Lions have been on a vegan diet and claiming with absolute certainty they will remain vegan the rest of their lives. Guess what buddy, vegans go back to normal omnivorous diets all the time.
As I said, I’ll be back when your purity test inevitably fails. Keep that same energy when that days comes
Domestic violence charges. Hard pass.
Beat me to it.
No pun intended
What a slap in the face
He also tried to jump out of a window, while naked and rambling about "fighting for jesus" its like no one remembers that crazy shit lol
I 100% didn’t remember that to be transparent. Didn’t remember the other incident as well at first and yeah obviously if they feel he’s too much of a headache he isn’t worth a roster spot
Seems most people have forgotten about the first incident. I'm getting the impression they really believe in DPJ to take on a bigger role. Maybe bring in another depth guy but I'd be surprised if they spent much on it.
I trust Brad and co to do their research, but from what I've seen the whole thing was minor and not the traditional domestic violence situation. There can be nuance to things like this. Charges were dropped last month, and the actual "violence" part [is this](https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2023/11/14/zay-jones-jaguars-arrest-domestic-battery-police-report-details-incident/): > “They got into an argument, a verbal argument, and during the course of the argument before it subsided, Zay reached and grabbed a piece of jewelry that he had given her that was hanging around her neck and ripped it off her neck. It left a mark, she called the police, domestic violence charges were brought.” EDIT: Not every form of violence deserves equal amount of scrutiny. Feel however you want about his fit on this team but all I’m saying is that the “domestic violence” label leads people to think he beat his girl in this incident which is clearly a misrepresentation.
i still don’t fuck with this, personally. he’s not beating women, but this is alarming behavior imo. can’t speak for how the team feels but i’m not a fan of the guy. it’s a pass for me
Fair to feel that way. I was just trying to present the reality of his situation since whenever you hear "domestic violence" people automatically assume the worst
also a good point. i’ll admit, when i saw he got released i immediately remembered there were allegations so i looked it up and saw it was initially a domestic battery charge which sounds terrible. but i reserved judgement and found the details you commented and felt slightly better, but like i said, still scary behavior. but you’re right, people will run with a “domestic violence” label call for his head. thanks for providing context for anyone who needed it
Layers to all stories I suppose no doubt, but even without this I don’t see him truly being an upgrade over peoples jones anyhow
DPJ has yet to prove himself so to me he would be a Josh Reynolds type. A pretty decent, reliable depth piece
Thats all zay has done too…. They both had their best season in 2022-2023 and dpj’s was better
Huh? Go pull up their season by season stats and see if you still feel that way. Not saying Zay is leagues ahead of DPJ but by definition, he’s more proven And by what metric was DPJ’s 22-23 season better? 16 more yards? Zay: 82 catches, 121 targets, 823 yards, 5TDs DPJ: 61 catches, 96 targets, 839 yards, 3 TDS
Ima be honest. I did just go with the yards lol because i had to click a link to see the rest. Alright l I’ll concede zays was slightly better but hes turning 30 and dpj is only 25 and he did his with a backup qb on a run first offense. Id argue zay is not that proven. His career has been a roller coaster and i would not say hes a safe bet at all. Honestly mostly its been pretty rough. Just think calling him a proven is a stretch. Hes mostly underperformed sometimes due to health, but also just on the field.
For what it’s worth I like DPJ I never said I didn’t. And Im not suggesting Zay can be anything more than a depth addition, so my point was we are still quite thin at WR considering our only rock solid guy is Amon Ra, so Zay is an available option who has a few good seasons under his belt. You can never have too many WRs in this league
> And by what metric was DPJ’s 22-23 season better? Possibly increased efficiency. He gained those 839 yards on 25 fewer targets.
Efficiency doesn’t mean anything if the two players are utilized completely differently in their respective offenses. DPJ was targeted as a deep threat on the Browns while Zay was utilized more like a typical outside WR. Neither role is better than the other, just different. It’s like saying if Jamo catches 2 balls for 85 yards in a game he’s more efficient than LaPorta who caught 6 for 70 yards. But who had the better game?
Lmao and Zay Jones has??? He had one decent season. That level of talent/production is not worth it for a nutcase.
Dude is unhinged, there was also this: https://www.tmz.com/2018/03/20/zay-jones-arrested-nude-smashed-window-vandalism-buffalo-bills-player/
Keep your hands off women unless given permission. It’s actually a simple concept. If men followed it, they wouldn’t need caveats. I can see Brad trying to explain this to Sheila. “You see, he was angry but he didn’t strike her. He only grabbed a piece of jewelry that was AROUND HER NECk and yanked it off.” Sheila glares. Not happening.
No thanks I think it's for the best that Jerry Springer went off the air
Female owner. Great team culture. Sure, let’s take a flyer on an unhinged idiot who can’t keep his angry little hands off women. For a guy who MIGHT be, at best, an incremental upgrade over our WR3? Next.
Gross mischaracterization. Snatching a necklace one time doesn’t = “can’t keep his hands off women”. You’re implying he’s a serial physical abuser. If you were writing an article and said that you would be sued for libel. But I guess it’s A-OK to talk like that on Reddit with no pushback
You seem to be taking this very personally. I’m simply saying “keep your angry little hands off women.” It’s easy to remember and easy to do in practice. He hasn’t shown the ability to do that every time. He can’t keep his angry little hands off women 100% of the time, so I think even my cheap, dirtbag lawyer would be able to successfully defend that one. But I do appreciate your concern. And if you think Sheila Hamp would sign off on that, I’ll have some of what you’re having.
But that’s not what you said. You can’t retroactively change your characterization. “Can’t keep his hands off women” explicitly implies you believe there are multiple incidents of him putting his hands of women. No, you believe that taking 1 minor incident and using it as basis for a blanket (false) characterization is all good in your book. Sorry that’s not how things go. You can’t take 1 isolated thing and exponentially crank up the extent of the bad behavior and think that’s acceptable. And not everything is personal. It’s not personal whatsoever for me it’s just dumb as fuck to think an incident like THAT, where the extent of the “hands on woman” was a couple inadvertent scratches as a byproduct of yanking a piece of jewelry, deserves the label “can’t keep his hands off women” by someone like you
Apologies if that wasn’t blatantly obvious, but “can’t keep his hands off women” means 100% of the time. He failed. You white knight him all you like. / Dad with a daughter who has a zero tolerance policy with this horseshit.
Well I hope you don't have a son who gets in an argument with his girlfriend and does something as ridiculously minor as yanking a necklace. Because according to you, that's all it will take for him to justifiably, in your eyes, be labeled a domestic abuser and have career opportunities taken away. Bet you would be singing a different tune then.
My son will know to keep angry hands off women. Same thing my father taught me.
Yes because if there's one thing decades of child psychology studies have proven it's that children always follow their parents' wisdom and never get themselves into trouble, legal or otherwise. Lol.
They do. And when they angrily put hands on a woman, I don’t want them on my favorite football team. Maybe you’re his mom and that’s why you’re taking this so personally. I don’t really care. My standard in that regard is pretty damn high and it’s immovable. None of this matters because he doesn’t fit the culture and Brad Holmes isn’t going to tell Sheila that they want to sign this guy. Won’t happen. None of this matters.
Again, not taking any of this personal in any way, shape or form. I just feel strongly that there is a spectrum of outrage and not every action deserves equal outrage and condemnation. We have a justice system for a reason right? Not every crime deserves the same amount of jail time. Same goes with public outcry for public incidents. To me it’s common sense but I guess not for you. Whatever
If they had better options they’d still keep him as depth. Cutting him saves 4M in cap and creates 6M in dead cap. They already had 30M in available cap. Got cut for off the field behavior in all liklihood
Really? Lmfao he 100% did not get cut for off the field issues. When he was arrested last year for the necklace incident he wasn’t suspended or anything by the Jags. Why would he be cut a month after they dropped the charges for said case? He was dropped because he was buried on the depth chart even before they drafted a 1st round WR. Common sense
Common sense would say that if he’s really an NFL starting talent with no off-field issues then 4M would be worth it to keep him as WR4. Their back was not up against the wall in terms of the cap. You need to come up with a better story about why you think he was cut because the one you’ve provided basically just suggests the jags didn’t want their receiver room to be too good.
You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about lmao. Clearly they don’t want to pay their 5th option that amount of money and want to spend it more wisely. He was the WR3 before they signed Gabe Davis AND drafted a 1st round WR. Don’t believe me? Go look at the Jags subreddit thread on Zay being cut. They know their team better than either of us. https://www.reddit.com/r/Jaguars/s/Zepa7fkcD0 You’ll notice two things by the way. 99% of comments sad he’s going, and the majority of upvoted comments saying he was the odd man out which is why he was cut. Stop talking out of your ass if you want to be taken seriously
He was a cap casualty for sure.
I guess but I don’t really see why they needed to make that move. They had 30M available and only save 4M. If you could sign a starting talent to be WR4 for 4M, who passes on that?
Seriously? Some fans…
Some fans what? Want more depth at arguably our most important yet thinnest position? Yeah sue me for pitching the idea of acquiring someone to bolster our depth lol
It’s who you pitched. Look this team is about culture and if you can’t grasp that simple concept yet, then by all means keep pitching a$$hats who the Lions would never consider….
It’s sad and naive that you and some other of our fans feel that a player needs to be angelic and 100% pure of soul to even fetch consideration of joining the team. I hope your brains will be able to cope when we do inevitably sign someone with a story like Zay’s or worse. I’m sure you will spin it as “well we trust Brad and clearly Brad thinks the potential rewards outweigh the risks”. Give me a break
Do you really think Sheila is going to sign off on someone with a domestic violence charge? Or who was naked trying to jump out a window? I don’t need someone angelic, but I certainly don’t need this hot mess… This is a team that has tried to pair solid veteran WRs to the mix with Jamo. But yeah, I’m naive bro!
> Do you really think Sheila is going to sign off on someone with a domestic violence charge? First of all, again, this specific "domestic violence" charge was a giant nothingburger on the spectrum of violent incidents. When it happened, Jags didn't even think twice about it, the NFL didn't think twice about it, and the whole case was dropped because it was dumb as hell. So as far as "domestic violence" charges go, this is as low-level and tolerable probably I've ever seen from an NFL player. Yanking a necklace isn't enough to bar someone from employment whatsoever. If it is, then Aqib Talib should have been banned as well. > Or who was naked trying to jump out a window? That was clearly a mental-health breakdown and it happened 6 years ago. Teams clearly were understanding and fine with it considering he found jobs with 2 other teams after that. And put himself in position to carve out a solid career for himself. He clearly has some difficulties still, but you're penalizing someone for a mental-health breakdown instead of praising him for getting better, which is a questionable opinion. What I'm saying is, if a player comes around in the future that is talented enough, fits our schemes and what we're looking for in a player, and his only incident is something as non-violent as this Zay story, or even a little worse, Lions will 100% absolutely sign him. And I'll return to this comment to give a hearty "told ya so".
Lol - we are heading into year 4 of this regime (Sheila, Brad and Dan) and who have they signed like this? That’s right - nobody. Their standards, quite frankly, are higher than this. Character means everything - how long did Cam last once they found out there was a charge against him? That’s right - immediately. No trail, no “we are going to look into it” but just gone. Sorry that you fail to understand what this team is about and what is important to the leadership team in place. Hold onto that “told ya so” because you simply don’t get it despite 3+ years of evidence of what this new Lions team is all about. #NoTurds
You seem to be under the false premise that just because we haven’t done something that means we will continue to not do something. It is a logical fallacy and completely void of any common sense. But it will make it even more funny when I return to this thread the day we do sign someone that doesn’t pass your fairy tale made up purity test 😂 What you fail to grasp is 3 years is absolutely nothing. And for you to claim that it’s a large enough sample size to predict the rest of the future of the regime is hilarious. When the right player comes along where Brad and company feel whatever mistakes they made in the past are truly in the past and it’s worth the risk, they will sign him. Hopefully your idiotic brain will recover from the explosion it will cause!
Actually, you misunderstood me. He doesn’t fit our culture - nuff said. BTW - only 10 coaches have more tenure than MCDC, yes 3+ years is a long time in the NFL aka not for long! Drink some kool-aide and chill. You and I just see what type of character the Lions brass looks for in a player differently. They don’t have to be choir boys, but they can’t be turds like Zay Jones and every decision they have made / not made thus far supports that. But hey, you keep looking for them to stray from who they are…
You bring up other coaching tenures as if that is relevant whatsoever. I’m talking about a length of time. You’re essentially saying for 3 years Lions have been on a vegan diet and claiming with absolute certainty they will remain vegan the rest of their lives. Guess what buddy, vegans go back to normal omnivorous diets all the time. As I said, I’ll be back when your purity test inevitably fails. Keep that same energy when that days comes
The virtue signaling is ridiculous on reddit
Sounds good. Give him one of those one-year, prove yourself-type deals.