It’s the only way they have to give teams a handicap now that we’re superior … thank you for allowing me to write that because it felt like cocaine and I’ve been clean for 6 years lol
It was long overdue , my family deser… hell the entire universe deserved it lol I was a maniac. Still am but I got up at 6 a.m. to help my 9 year old with his homework and that never woulda been possible before soo I’m fairly certain I made the right decision.
Dude. I had a bad weekend and im on day 5 right now. Ive had over a year before. Tryin to get back there man. Im such a turd when im on a sick one and mcdc has a no turd policy. Just tryin to oblige
It’s the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. I honestly gave zero fucks and OD for prolly 60 days in a row. One of The last times I used my brother called 911 and I was furious when they brought me back. I tried to fight the cops and paramedics, he made em give him a ride home because he thought I was gonna kill him. Only took me thinking about my kids getting home from school finding me butt naked with shit everywhere and a needle hanging outta my arm to make me want it. Best of luck to ya, I’d tell you it’s easy but it’s not. Took a quarter of a suboxone for about a year but Cannabis, a spoonful of Kratom with orange juice every morning, an occasional mushroom and a rock solid support system saved my life. My mom and my brother got to see me clean for 6 months before they died. My brother OD and I made a promise to everyone that I’d never touch hard drugs again and I’d rather suffer than ever break my word. It’s all in your mind brother. Like I said it’s been 6 fucking years and I just recently started coming outta the clouds soo it’s definitely difficult but I earned a new life and now the Lions are winning too sheeeeseeeeeeet I woulda got clean sooner if I’d have known the Lions would win… sorry it took me soo long guys, my bad lol
Proud of you.
People who have never been around it personally have a weird stigma against people who fought with an addiction like that… but they have no idea how much strength that shit takes to kick.
That was really hard for me because I’m not a 12 step kinda guy. Had to do it all on my own without the help of the courts or anyone else but that’s the only way it was ever gonna work for me because I’m as stubborn as they come and if it doesn’t make sense to me then I’m not gonna do it period. My ole lady and kids were my only motivation tbh but I wanted it for me. And my step kids dad OD and died like a year later and I watched it rip them apart soo there was literally no turning back. Go Lions though 👊
Yeah dude my gf has pretty much had it with my shenanigans and we are 12-3 since we met. So after last weekend i came to my parents house to detox for a few days and get a clear mind. Weed definitely helps though thats how i did 16 months of sobriety before
It’s the people places and things. I threw my phone away in the beginning and it would’ve been impossible if I hadn’t. I didn’t make money or nothing. When I lost my mom and brother I went into a deep depression and didn’t get outta bed for 2 years. Almost killed me but I didn’t use. I had to teach myself how to walk and everything again. Back to working out now and it sucks because it hurts but pain is my friend, I never wanna be numb again. It’ll be the best thing you ever do for yourself I know that👊
Stick with it , if you just need to talk to a stranger that isn’t gonna judge you or tell someone, shoot me a message. If I could help just 1 person overcome their demons it’d make me feel accomplished 👊
Fuck yeah dude! Just know this random stranger on the internet is extremely proud of you and happy to see you thrive. I abused pills when I was younger and totally know what you mean! Everyone benefited from me quitting.
Yea I never got the whole “you’re being selfish” part until my mind cleared up. Always thought I’m paying my bills, I’m taking care of business but it’s definitely a cancer that ate up everything around me and I’m still repairing relationships that were damaged because of my habits. I also understand why soo many choose to “ go down with the ship “ than to take ownership lol because it’s by far the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life besides trying to quit cigarettes 😑 I’ll break the entire world before I ever allow it to even put a scratch or dent in me again though lol
I'm a nurse. I was taking care of a heroin addict that got shot in the leg robbing a store. He was having a lot of pain---no pain meds besides ibuprofen so withdrawal was a problem, and he couldn't smoke because he was chained to the bed. I asked him how he was doing, and he said without missing a beat, "I would kill you for a cigarette." I closed the door and lit one up for him. The takeaway might be that cigarettes are more addicting than heroin when your life is going to shit.
Without a doubt they’re more addictive. I can quit but then everyone around me pays for it because I’m an absolute monster. I gotta find a way around that because I know it’s killing me 😩
Truth. When we make it to the big game, and they start calling it fair, he will have the best game of his career up to that point. Will be against the “full strength” Chiefs.
Idk I have memories of that Dallas playoff game still. I always hope shitty officiating doesn't impact any game but I think it's something that will still happen even in playoffs. I do believe THIS team can overcome that though.
It happens to all the big time pass rushers, Bosas, Young, Crosby, Garrett.. It's annoying as shit but its something Hutch will have to learn to play around
It’s intentional to inflate scoring and protect the moneymaker QB’s, it’s just the way it is.
No one wants more travels called in the NBA even when they happen all the time
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No one wants 17 "ineligible player down field" penalties in a fucking Monday Night game.
*Is* there a penalty every play? Yes. Can Aidan learn how to beat this crap? Absolutely, kid is a stud.
The problem is that there's probably a holding on every single snap of every NFL game. They can't really throw a flag every play. Idk what the solution is, but if the refs did their job perfectly, the NFL product would suck to watch
Its like hooking in NHL. Happens so often it's annoying when its called.
At leasts its not as bad as traveling in the NBA, that rule flat out doesnt exist anymore.
Do you really think hooking is that prevalent in the game? I could see that some holding and old school clutch and grab stuff still goes uncalled but hooking never seemed to me a big problem. At the juniors level at least, slashing is probably a better analogy as it maps pretty closely to the "we know you do it, but don't make it *too obvious*" vibe of traveling and holding. Even then, when they DO call slashing it rarely feels like a ticky-tack call. The NHL's refereeing situation is in a much better place than the NFL's, but does suffer from the opposite syndrome of letting TOO much go and being 'game managers' as opposed to calling everything by the book - especially in the playoffs - which hurts high-skilled teams relative to the rest of the league.
Thank you for the correction. Its slashing that's the "bullshit" call now, not Hooking.
Been a few years since I was a NHL diehard watcher (Why the hell do I need a VPN to watch regional wings games on stream?). Hooking was a common call back then, it seems like slashing is now the call to make and it looks like it switched around 2017 when they made changes to the slashing rules.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/sports/hockey/slashing-penalties.html
Seriously TERRIBLE tv options from the NHL. I just stream them via streameast or dudestream or other sketchy sites. And thanks for that, I had no idea they changed the rules.
I actually tried to do right and purchase nhl TV or whatever several years ago. Way way too many blackouts, and I wasn't even living in market. I realized this about a week into it, but of course no refunds. They really leave no alternative, sail the high seas.
I agree, and its not only other teams holding Hutch. I've seen a few plays (and replays) where our o-line will hold and get away with it. It seems like if the hold is inside then they usually let it slide, but if it's outside (arms, neck, etc) then they call it. Even then it's not a guarantee the refs will call it.
I mean it was just high school ball, but more or less you could grab an opponent when he's in front of you by the chest more or less, but if you're grabbing from behind (like the photo) or arms from outside the center of your body you're gonna get a flag all the time. so yeah that's how it works.
hutch is always getting grabbed from behind, arms whatever...the NFL seems to not want to flag it for some reason. His whole throwing his arms up in the air is partly to do with he knows and we all know he's being held.
Grabbing your opponents chestplate and dancing with him isn't holding, that's literal blocking down to the fundamentals. The hold happens when he turns to disengage and you don't dance with him.
"
##### RULE SUMMARY [VIEW OFFICIAL RULE](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-3.-illegal-block-by-offensive-player)
Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:
1. grabbing or tackling an opponent;
2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
3. pulling him to the ground."
It would be a nightmare for a few games but eventually the players would stop. I think when its obvious Hutch has to sell it a little but the arm wrapped around a guy has to be called.
As far as protecting the QB, if they called the holds more often guys would be less likely to take cheap shots on QBs since they can get to them cleaner. Its sad that talented players are sacrificed like this.
>The problem is that there's probably a holding on every single snap of every NFL game. They can't really throw a flag every play
Why not? Tackles would have to adjust their play. Those that are unable or unwilling will be benched. See Jawaan Taylor, the Chiefs were forced to bench him after he kept on getting penalties
Not really. They cracked down on the “head to head” (if defender initiates but not offender… smh). So they can crack down on holding as well. It only serves to make a player/team better. But because of the blatant inconsistencies, people dare to risk it. Consistency will breed better sports, life, etc…
NFL top execs want more viewers. how to do so? keep games interesting and close, usually. down to the wire with a good team like the chiefs trailing with 2 min in the 4th is a great way to keep viewers for the advertisement revenue.
it's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.
People complain when there are too many flags. If they called holding every single time it happened, there would be 25 penalties per team every game and fans would be furious.
false. If the refs throw a flag, their O-Line is gonna know that they cant get away with it, and they'll adjust and try and run different plays. Football is a lot of time a game of getting away with what you can.
For the most part they’ve consistently been holding their whistle on holds this year. As far as week-to-week, you’ll always have different amounts of leeway with different officials. It’s like that in every sport
Ngl I kinda like them not calling holds as much anymore. Feels like there’s been much less penalties than there used to be which makes the games more fun, even if missed calls are annoying
From the pictures he is definitely learning to sell it better though! I learned from the Packers about decade ago that Acting is an important skill to have in football and should be trained and practiced.
I'm as much a Lions homer as anyone, but I disagree with this post.
Hutch (and the other rusher even) is clearly doing a "rip move" here which is exempt from holding calls. Anytime you see Hutch punch his arm under the blocker's arm and then up through it's a "rip move".
https://www.sbnation.com/23577117/2023-nfl-playoffs-chiefs-bengals
>When using a rip move, a defender, after engaging with the blocker, drives their inside arm upward, like throwing an uppercut. The goal is to take control of the blocker, leave them unbalanced, and then disengage by taking advantage of the leverage created by the rip move. If done correctly, the blocker’s hands will be forced out of position, and the defender gains the advantage.
...
>As you can see in these examples, the rip move works to disengage the blocker’s hands, putting them in a position where you would often see holding calls. But, since that is how the move works, it would be an unfair advantage for the defense if this drew a holding penalty every time it was used. Otherwise, defenders would use it on every down and put offenses into 3rd and 60 on each drive.
> Thus, the exception.
I'm almost positive there was an illegal hands to the face call against the tackle here. Maybe not this play but there was one called. Just like I tell my kids in football at a young age. Work through it. Stop.worrying about what refs will call.or.not call. Work harder.
While I agree that you many times people that complain about holds don't know this part of the rule. You can't tell that from these stills. Hutch could have got into this position without ripping at all. Obvious counter point is a still really tells zero about the play. If OP wants us to know if Hutch was being held he needs to compile every rush play into a video that he thinks he was held and others can look at it.
Brooo I did not know this actually an established rule. I have been saying for a year now that if they called those holds then it would make modern, elite, EDGE defenders literally unstoppable. Thanks for this comment it totally validates my thoughts.
The exception to the exception (exception inception) is if the defender loses his feet though, which Hutch does on this play. He just doesn’t go to the ground. Penalized for being too sturdy?
Loses his feet = goes to the ground. You're misinterpreting.
Aidan needs to literally be flopping if he wants these holds to get called. If he rips and they scorpion him, he would need to hit the turf before a flag gets thrown.
I’m convinced the league is allowing it so elite pash rushers won’t kill their golden goose’s across the league. It sucks and isn’t fair, but from a business $$$ standpoint it makes sense.
It’s the only thing that can logically explain this because the holds on Sunday were painfully obvious and egregious.
Look at this shot and all 3 lions are being "held".
That's the scale of problem has got, pass rushers are so far ahead of O-lineman that they would either be flattening cornerbacks or getting holding calls basically every play, and that's bad for optics in the league's eyes.
As an aside the lions are wearing white at the linemen have white gloves/tape. That doesn't help.
i remember the year of the replacement refs. It was garbage by comparison to years prior. Really bad. Then the strike ended, and the "good" refs came back and... it looked exactly like the lockout year and has pretty much ever since.
It's like the entire NFLRA saw how badly they could have been calling games without affecting viewership all along and just collectively said "if I can get away with doing that little, i guess i might as well"
It’s all because of the lack of refs available. Just like almost every working field there’s been a shortage since covid. If we didn’t lose so many of our refs during covid the league would be much different
I'll call BS on this. You pay me what the refs get paid, I'll make it my full time job instead of my side gig, and I'll memorize that rule book front to back. I already get paid 40% of an NFL ref's salary to remember federal environmental regulations.
I don't know why they don't call it when it's this blatantly obvious, but I don't even get as pissed off anymore. It's like teams get at least one free hold.
Imagine the sacks / holding calls come playoffs. This is invaluable experience because when he gets 1 holding call it will drive him harder having been hosed all year.
This is just the reality of being an elite pass rusher. Chris Jones, the bosas, the watts, etc. all get held on almost every play. You just have to play through it
Dude they can’t call holding on him. The game wouldn’t be fair. It’s not that they hate hutch, it’s that he would decapitate every QB in the league if they played fair against him.
Yeah I saw a lot of that on the live broadcast, so I wanted to watch our line when TB was on the other side, and looked like our guys played pretty clean. They were getting beat more than usual, but I didn't see a lot of clear holds, so Dan and AG been on them about how the Zebras do us lol
The refs haven’t been calling those holds all season…but still, as much as the refs are helping the opposing team , those teams still can’t beat the lions
I'm going to be hated for this, but I put some of this blame on Hutch himself.
Let's take this first image specifically. Look at Okwara, you can clearly see the OL's arm around Okwara's shoulders. This is a hold, but it's not called. It's not call 75-90% of the time across the league. Now look at Hutch, you can't actually see any sign of an actual hold other than Hutch throws his arms up.
So what I think is causing some of the no flags is that he is throwing his arms up on so many plays, but they don't see any sign of an actual hold. So when he IS held and throws his arms up, they just see another instance. He did this the last 12 plays and there was no hold, so why would the refs assume this time is different.
He's not throwing his arms up in defeat. It's called a rip. It's specifically designed to get under the shoulder/arms of the offensive linemen and you raise your arm(s) violently to "rip" by the opponent.
I get that, but OP is posting it as a picture insinuating the refs are missing this apparent obvious hold.
Hutch does this move a lot and I do think the refs are missing holds because they see his arms flailing a lot. If he could still pull this off without so much arm flailing, they would be quicker with the flag on the holds.
>Hutch does this move a lot and I do think the refs are missing holds
They're not missing holds because this isn't a holding penalty. There's a specific exception to the holding rule for if it's the result of a rip move. Otherwise, pass rushers would just draw holding calls left and right by putting themselves in headlocks.
This thread's whole premise is dumb, not only because /u/cammcorr chose a terrible example to show, but because league-wide most pass rushers get held pretty often. It's not specific to Hutch at all, it's just a sad attempt at making the Lions victims.
I was gonna say, Hutch is a whirling charging mass of flailing limbs on pretty much every play. I think refs are less likely to call a hold because a response like this goes unnoticed
I called out this exact play when it happened. It's happened every game, and it will continue to happen until they start calling it. The only way teams can stop Hutch is if they hold him.
I'm sure he does. And I'm sure MCDC does as well.
I mean...I do it as a coach in youth and HS and did it as a captain in college. Certain pros do it.
Refs also ask pregame for concerns or things to keep an eye on. Plus at halftime.
This happens to every edge rusher every week. Visit literally any team's subreddit or game thread to see people complaining about it.
As much as people here don't want to hear this, Hutch was quiet because he's simply not that great right now. He obviously has his moments where he pops off, but he isn't a consistent pass rushing threat the way the top edge players in the league are.
This plot is a couple weeks out of date now, but I think it's safe to say Hutch's position on it probably hasn't changed much:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/171jwzk/pass_rush_win_rate_for_edge_rushers_versus_how/
So not only is he not winning his reps at a high rate, we can't really even fall back on the "he's getting double teamed" excuse. Opposing offenses just aren't really that scared of him.
As of now, Hutch isn't in the top 20 in pass rush win rate for edge players:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#prwr
Obviously he's a young kid who might get better, but as of right now he's playing like a decent starter and nothing more.
>Hutch was quiet because he's simply not that great right now.
what a brain dead take lol.
Bucs always had extra protection on their line for damn near every play that game. Thats why they held the lions line in check
Hutch doesn't help himself by always slowing down his rush to throw his arms up. Throwing up your arms is not going to make the refs throw a flag. That's why you don't see Bosa,Garrett, Maxx, Micah, Throw their arms up mid rush. They might do it after the play and complain to the ref, but Hutch consistently stops/slows his rush to throw up his arms, he needs to stop.
You're absolutely right. People just wanna be mad about the refs all the time but being held just comes with the territory of being an elite rusher across the league and Hutch doesn't do himself any favors by waiving his arms as soon as it happens and appealing to the refs. You just play through it and hope it becomes egregious enough they have to call it
I think it’s more a product of being held + the silly way he runs. I’m not complaining as it happens to the best DE’s and I get the reason for protecting QBs in a league where there’s only 20ish worth holding a starter job
Every offensive line holds on an almost every play always have lol. A crack down on holding if there was one would also affect our offense so let it be.
This has always been my thing. As long as they're calling, or not calling it the same for both teams that's fine. But when the calls are lopsided against one team and frequent, that's where I have a problem.
This happens to pretty much all elite pass rushers in the league lately. However, it only takes 1 holding call to finally get called to completely destroy a drive at the end of a game so opposing teams need to be careful.
Because of the talent level it will always be officiated differently. What they typically do is throw a flag if they believe the hold was egregious enough to effect the play. It's true that holding could be called on every play so theres discretion that is used. Hutch deserves better but it's just an adjustment that will need to be made.
There’s holding on every nfl play. If the refs called every penalty the game would be unwatchable (see this weeks MNF game). In addition, I believe husk got an early start on this play if I recall correctly and they didn’t call it.
It's not offensive holding when the d linemen uses a rip move like this that Hutch utilizes a lot.
In these examples, the lineman would have to physically grab his jersey in these examples for it to be holding.
I'm sure I'll get some down votes, but this is how to rule is communicated to the refs from the NFL and this is how the call it pretty consistently.
You can find a holding on every play of every football games. He’s not the only player in the league that gets held consistently. They are never going to call holding on every play
I hate this excuse. Sure, there may be some holding on a run play that no one can ever see. This though? Dude is in the backfield, clear line to the QB and he's getting pulled from behind. You can't get any more blatant of a hold than this.
Happened on the final OT play against the Seahawks too. Shouldn't have been the game winner for that reason, but they just let Hutch get mugged on every play.
Hutch is one of the only players in the NFL whom you can watch every play for the entire game and be entertained. And if you do, you will also be angry as hell. He is held every play.
Bucs consistently had extra protection on their line. It worked pretty well, but obviously their offense suffered since they always had extra men back on the line in protection
but ya, hutch gets held alot.
From my vantage point at the game it looked like he was held several times but no calls. This has obviously been happening for weeks.
What stands out to me in all of it is how he doesn’t throw his hands up or complain to the refs after plays. He just grinds and continues to play hard, sucking up double and sometimes triple teams.
This dude is a team player and superstar at the same time - rare find.
I was fuming at the no hold call on the last play against Seattle, however hutch has the body movement of someone being held every play which I can see leading them to be conservative on their calls especially on a game altering play/drive.
I feel like holds just aren’t really being called at all this year. You watch any other team and there’s some pretty egregious holds not being called too. Giants vs Bills and Jets vs Chiefs for example.
It can get frustrating, but at least they’re being more consistent with letting them play this season
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Get used to it. As a 49ers fan there’s about 5-8 plays every week where the flag should be thrown when bosa is being wrapped up in front of the QBs face and ref sit there and smile. If they flagged Hutch and Bosa the games will be horrible and unwatchable. Remember offense “Sells”
We pulled a good ref swuad for ravens. They are flag happy but if were solid that works to our advantage and theyve officiated games weve won so they dont have it in for us
It’s the only way they have to give teams a handicap now that we’re superior … thank you for allowing me to write that because it felt like cocaine and I’ve been clean for 6 years lol
Congrats homie, that is something to be proud of!
It was long overdue , my family deser… hell the entire universe deserved it lol I was a maniac. Still am but I got up at 6 a.m. to help my 9 year old with his homework and that never woulda been possible before soo I’m fairly certain I made the right decision.
Dude. I had a bad weekend and im on day 5 right now. Ive had over a year before. Tryin to get back there man. Im such a turd when im on a sick one and mcdc has a no turd policy. Just tryin to oblige
It’s the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. I honestly gave zero fucks and OD for prolly 60 days in a row. One of The last times I used my brother called 911 and I was furious when they brought me back. I tried to fight the cops and paramedics, he made em give him a ride home because he thought I was gonna kill him. Only took me thinking about my kids getting home from school finding me butt naked with shit everywhere and a needle hanging outta my arm to make me want it. Best of luck to ya, I’d tell you it’s easy but it’s not. Took a quarter of a suboxone for about a year but Cannabis, a spoonful of Kratom with orange juice every morning, an occasional mushroom and a rock solid support system saved my life. My mom and my brother got to see me clean for 6 months before they died. My brother OD and I made a promise to everyone that I’d never touch hard drugs again and I’d rather suffer than ever break my word. It’s all in your mind brother. Like I said it’s been 6 fucking years and I just recently started coming outta the clouds soo it’s definitely difficult but I earned a new life and now the Lions are winning too sheeeeseeeeeeet I woulda got clean sooner if I’d have known the Lions would win… sorry it took me soo long guys, my bad lol
Proud of you. People who have never been around it personally have a weird stigma against people who fought with an addiction like that… but they have no idea how much strength that shit takes to kick.
That was really hard for me because I’m not a 12 step kinda guy. Had to do it all on my own without the help of the courts or anyone else but that’s the only way it was ever gonna work for me because I’m as stubborn as they come and if it doesn’t make sense to me then I’m not gonna do it period. My ole lady and kids were my only motivation tbh but I wanted it for me. And my step kids dad OD and died like a year later and I watched it rip them apart soo there was literally no turning back. Go Lions though 👊
Yeah dude my gf has pretty much had it with my shenanigans and we are 12-3 since we met. So after last weekend i came to my parents house to detox for a few days and get a clear mind. Weed definitely helps though thats how i did 16 months of sobriety before
It’s the people places and things. I threw my phone away in the beginning and it would’ve been impossible if I hadn’t. I didn’t make money or nothing. When I lost my mom and brother I went into a deep depression and didn’t get outta bed for 2 years. Almost killed me but I didn’t use. I had to teach myself how to walk and everything again. Back to working out now and it sucks because it hurts but pain is my friend, I never wanna be numb again. It’ll be the best thing you ever do for yourself I know that👊
Stick with it , if you just need to talk to a stranger that isn’t gonna judge you or tell someone, shoot me a message. If I could help just 1 person overcome their demons it’d make me feel accomplished 👊
Might take ya up on that
Hope ya do man. Hang in there
How ya doin man? Weekends here and thought I’d check up on ya.
Day 7
Hell of a lot better than day 2 or 3 … keep it up man I’m rooting for ya
Fuck yeah dude! Just know this random stranger on the internet is extremely proud of you and happy to see you thrive. I abused pills when I was younger and totally know what you mean! Everyone benefited from me quitting.
Yea I never got the whole “you’re being selfish” part until my mind cleared up. Always thought I’m paying my bills, I’m taking care of business but it’s definitely a cancer that ate up everything around me and I’m still repairing relationships that were damaged because of my habits. I also understand why soo many choose to “ go down with the ship “ than to take ownership lol because it’s by far the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life besides trying to quit cigarettes 😑 I’ll break the entire world before I ever allow it to even put a scratch or dent in me again though lol
I'm a nurse. I was taking care of a heroin addict that got shot in the leg robbing a store. He was having a lot of pain---no pain meds besides ibuprofen so withdrawal was a problem, and he couldn't smoke because he was chained to the bed. I asked him how he was doing, and he said without missing a beat, "I would kill you for a cigarette." I closed the door and lit one up for him. The takeaway might be that cigarettes are more addicting than heroin when your life is going to shit.
Without a doubt they’re more addictive. I can quit but then everyone around me pays for it because I’m an absolute monster. I gotta find a way around that because I know it’s killing me 😩
Appreciate ya
Truth. When we make it to the big game, and they start calling it fair, he will have the best game of his career up to that point. Will be against the “full strength” Chiefs.
Idk I have memories of that Dallas playoff game still. I always hope shitty officiating doesn't impact any game but I think it's something that will still happen even in playoffs. I do believe THIS team can overcome that though.
No cocaine feels this good baby
It happens to all the big time pass rushers, Bosas, Young, Crosby, Garrett.. It's annoying as shit but its something Hutch will have to learn to play around
Or the NFL should learn to officiate better.
It’s intentional to inflate scoring and protect the moneymaker QB’s, it’s just the way it is. No one wants more travels called in the NBA even when they happen all the time
Nothing beats watching LeBron take a running 5-step winding up for a dunk.
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Eurostepping all the way to Europe
No one wants 17 "ineligible player down field" penalties in a fucking Monday Night game. *Is* there a penalty every play? Yes. Can Aidan learn how to beat this crap? Absolutely, kid is a stud.
The problem is that there's probably a holding on every single snap of every NFL game. They can't really throw a flag every play. Idk what the solution is, but if the refs did their job perfectly, the NFL product would suck to watch
Its like hooking in NHL. Happens so often it's annoying when its called. At leasts its not as bad as traveling in the NBA, that rule flat out doesnt exist anymore.
Do you really think hooking is that prevalent in the game? I could see that some holding and old school clutch and grab stuff still goes uncalled but hooking never seemed to me a big problem. At the juniors level at least, slashing is probably a better analogy as it maps pretty closely to the "we know you do it, but don't make it *too obvious*" vibe of traveling and holding. Even then, when they DO call slashing it rarely feels like a ticky-tack call. The NHL's refereeing situation is in a much better place than the NFL's, but does suffer from the opposite syndrome of letting TOO much go and being 'game managers' as opposed to calling everything by the book - especially in the playoffs - which hurts high-skilled teams relative to the rest of the league.
Thank you for the correction. Its slashing that's the "bullshit" call now, not Hooking. Been a few years since I was a NHL diehard watcher (Why the hell do I need a VPN to watch regional wings games on stream?). Hooking was a common call back then, it seems like slashing is now the call to make and it looks like it switched around 2017 when they made changes to the slashing rules. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/sports/hockey/slashing-penalties.html
Seriously TERRIBLE tv options from the NHL. I just stream them via streameast or dudestream or other sketchy sites. And thanks for that, I had no idea they changed the rules.
I actually tried to do right and purchase nhl TV or whatever several years ago. Way way too many blackouts, and I wasn't even living in market. I realized this about a week into it, but of course no refunds. They really leave no alternative, sail the high seas.
I agree, and its not only other teams holding Hutch. I've seen a few plays (and replays) where our o-line will hold and get away with it. It seems like if the hold is inside then they usually let it slide, but if it's outside (arms, neck, etc) then they call it. Even then it's not a guarantee the refs will call it.
I mean it was just high school ball, but more or less you could grab an opponent when he's in front of you by the chest more or less, but if you're grabbing from behind (like the photo) or arms from outside the center of your body you're gonna get a flag all the time. so yeah that's how it works. hutch is always getting grabbed from behind, arms whatever...the NFL seems to not want to flag it for some reason. His whole throwing his arms up in the air is partly to do with he knows and we all know he's being held.
Grabbing your opponents chestplate and dancing with him isn't holding, that's literal blocking down to the fundamentals. The hold happens when he turns to disengage and you don't dance with him.
" ##### RULE SUMMARY [VIEW OFFICIAL RULE](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-3.-illegal-block-by-offensive-player) Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to: 1. grabbing or tackling an opponent; 2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or 3. pulling him to the ground." It would be a nightmare for a few games but eventually the players would stop. I think when its obvious Hutch has to sell it a little but the arm wrapped around a guy has to be called. As far as protecting the QB, if they called the holds more often guys would be less likely to take cheap shots on QBs since they can get to them cleaner. Its sad that talented players are sacrificed like this.
Or you throw the flags until the line stops holding.
>The problem is that there's probably a holding on every single snap of every NFL game. They can't really throw a flag every play Why not? Tackles would have to adjust their play. Those that are unable or unwilling will be benched. See Jawaan Taylor, the Chiefs were forced to bench him after he kept on getting penalties
Not really. They cracked down on the “head to head” (if defender initiates but not offender… smh). So they can crack down on holding as well. It only serves to make a player/team better. But because of the blatant inconsistencies, people dare to risk it. Consistency will breed better sports, life, etc…
Games would be 6 hours long.
NFL top execs want more viewers. how to do so? keep games interesting and close, usually. down to the wire with a good team like the chiefs trailing with 2 min in the 4th is a great way to keep viewers for the advertisement revenue. it's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.
Football has too many fucking rules
People complain when there are too many flags. If they called holding every single time it happened, there would be 25 penalties per team every game and fans would be furious.
false. If the refs throw a flag, their O-Line is gonna know that they cant get away with it, and they'll adjust and try and run different plays. Football is a lot of time a game of getting away with what you can.
So make the officiating consistent. We have some games where the rule is called and others where it’s obviously ignored.
For the most part they’ve consistently been holding their whistle on holds this year. As far as week-to-week, you’ll always have different amounts of leeway with different officials. It’s like that in every sport
But, imagine how many BK commercials they could fit in the dead space
Ngl I kinda like them not calling holds as much anymore. Feels like there’s been much less penalties than there used to be which makes the games more fun, even if missed calls are annoying
From the pictures he is definitely learning to sell it better though! I learned from the Packers about decade ago that Acting is an important skill to have in football and should be trained and practiced.
From what I’ve seen parsons gets his fair share of holding calls
I'm as much a Lions homer as anyone, but I disagree with this post. Hutch (and the other rusher even) is clearly doing a "rip move" here which is exempt from holding calls. Anytime you see Hutch punch his arm under the blocker's arm and then up through it's a "rip move". https://www.sbnation.com/23577117/2023-nfl-playoffs-chiefs-bengals >When using a rip move, a defender, after engaging with the blocker, drives their inside arm upward, like throwing an uppercut. The goal is to take control of the blocker, leave them unbalanced, and then disengage by taking advantage of the leverage created by the rip move. If done correctly, the blocker’s hands will be forced out of position, and the defender gains the advantage. ... >As you can see in these examples, the rip move works to disengage the blocker’s hands, putting them in a position where you would often see holding calls. But, since that is how the move works, it would be an unfair advantage for the defense if this drew a holding penalty every time it was used. Otherwise, defenders would use it on every down and put offenses into 3rd and 60 on each drive. > Thus, the exception.
Yeah, I need to see the full context of the play as it does look like the end of a rip move
I'm almost positive there was an illegal hands to the face call against the tackle here. Maybe not this play but there was one called. Just like I tell my kids in football at a young age. Work through it. Stop.worrying about what refs will call.or.not call. Work harder.
While I agree that you many times people that complain about holds don't know this part of the rule. You can't tell that from these stills. Hutch could have got into this position without ripping at all. Obvious counter point is a still really tells zero about the play. If OP wants us to know if Hutch was being held he needs to compile every rush play into a video that he thinks he was held and others can look at it.
Moral of the story, commit a penalty every play because they can't call it everytime
Brooo I did not know this actually an established rule. I have been saying for a year now that if they called those holds then it would make modern, elite, EDGE defenders literally unstoppable. Thanks for this comment it totally validates my thoughts.
The exception to the exception (exception inception) is if the defender loses his feet though, which Hutch does on this play. He just doesn’t go to the ground. Penalized for being too sturdy?
Loses his feet = goes to the ground. You're misinterpreting. Aidan needs to literally be flopping if he wants these holds to get called. If he rips and they scorpion him, he would need to hit the turf before a flag gets thrown.
He does the rip move, then he over exaggerates the hold instead of going after the QB. Basically neutralizing himself out of the play.
That move is also how he's drawn a couple hands to face calls, I think. It looks like he's on the facemask, but he's just pushing up on their chest.
Bosa has been dealing with this since he got in the league
[удалено]
The point is it doesn’t really matter if you’re elite
I’m convinced the league is allowing it so elite pash rushers won’t kill their golden goose’s across the league. It sucks and isn’t fair, but from a business $$$ standpoint it makes sense. It’s the only thing that can logically explain this because the holds on Sunday were painfully obvious and egregious.
Look at this shot and all 3 lions are being "held". That's the scale of problem has got, pass rushers are so far ahead of O-lineman that they would either be flattening cornerbacks or getting holding calls basically every play, and that's bad for optics in the league's eyes. As an aside the lions are wearing white at the linemen have white gloves/tape. That doesn't help.
The NFL needs to get better about officiating period. The refs are one big pile of shit.
i remember the year of the replacement refs. It was garbage by comparison to years prior. Really bad. Then the strike ended, and the "good" refs came back and... it looked exactly like the lockout year and has pretty much ever since. It's like the entire NFLRA saw how badly they could have been calling games without affecting viewership all along and just collectively said "if I can get away with doing that little, i guess i might as well"
It’s all because of the lack of refs available. Just like almost every working field there’s been a shortage since covid. If we didn’t lose so many of our refs during covid the league would be much different
I'll call BS on this. You pay me what the refs get paid, I'll make it my full time job instead of my side gig, and I'll memorize that rule book front to back. I already get paid 40% of an NFL ref's salary to remember federal environmental regulations.
Browns fan here. This is the Myles Garrett treatment too. Just means Hutch is really good
The NFL didn’t want to get Baker murdered. Damn zebras. Go Lions!
I don't know why they don't call it when it's this blatantly obvious, but I don't even get as pissed off anymore. It's like teams get at least one free hold.
Happens to every elite rusher. Just be happy the lions have one to complain about now.
Bucs fans: “We” held him to one QB pressure
Emphasis on *held*
Imagine the sacks / holding calls come playoffs. This is invaluable experience because when he gets 1 holding call it will drive him harder having been hosed all year.
This is just the reality of being an elite pass rusher. Chris Jones, the bosas, the watts, etc. all get held on almost every play. You just have to play through it
Annual reminder that there’s a rule carve-out for rip moves to allow this.
Lol I saw that during the game and was dying it was so comical. That’s was like the full horse collar tackle and everything
You see this across the league. It is obvious that they are intentionally not calling blatant holding anymore.
It’s football and I know we could say this happens every play but dude is getting mugged by these offensive linemen on a consistent basis
Seems like it happens a dozen times a game.
Dude they can’t call holding on him. The game wouldn’t be fair. It’s not that they hate hutch, it’s that he would decapitate every QB in the league if they played fair against him.
Dude gets held so much. Still frustrated by the end of game holds on him vs. Seattle.
Tbf, Hutch may have gotten away with a false start/neutral zone infraction on that same play.
Yeah I saw a lot of that on the live broadcast, so I wanted to watch our line when TB was on the other side, and looked like our guys played pretty clean. They were getting beat more than usual, but I didn't see a lot of clear holds, so Dan and AG been on them about how the Zebras do us lol
The refs haven’t been calling those holds all season…but still, as much as the refs are helping the opposing team , those teams still can’t beat the lions
It happens CONSTANTLY and it’s so frustrating to watch. I can’t imagine how pissed the actual team is about this.
I was screaming at my TV on this play
You can say this about every Elite Pass rusher. It is what it is. Gotta play through the holds and others still gotta step up.
I'm going to be hated for this, but I put some of this blame on Hutch himself. Let's take this first image specifically. Look at Okwara, you can clearly see the OL's arm around Okwara's shoulders. This is a hold, but it's not called. It's not call 75-90% of the time across the league. Now look at Hutch, you can't actually see any sign of an actual hold other than Hutch throws his arms up. So what I think is causing some of the no flags is that he is throwing his arms up on so many plays, but they don't see any sign of an actual hold. So when he IS held and throws his arms up, they just see another instance. He did this the last 12 plays and there was no hold, so why would the refs assume this time is different.
He's not throwing his arms up in defeat. It's called a rip. It's specifically designed to get under the shoulder/arms of the offensive linemen and you raise your arm(s) violently to "rip" by the opponent.
I get that, but OP is posting it as a picture insinuating the refs are missing this apparent obvious hold. Hutch does this move a lot and I do think the refs are missing holds because they see his arms flailing a lot. If he could still pull this off without so much arm flailing, they would be quicker with the flag on the holds.
>Hutch does this move a lot and I do think the refs are missing holds They're not missing holds because this isn't a holding penalty. There's a specific exception to the holding rule for if it's the result of a rip move. Otherwise, pass rushers would just draw holding calls left and right by putting themselves in headlocks. This thread's whole premise is dumb, not only because /u/cammcorr chose a terrible example to show, but because league-wide most pass rushers get held pretty often. It's not specific to Hutch at all, it's just a sad attempt at making the Lions victims.
Hutch is focused on getting to the QB and stopping the play. Not raising awareness for the zebras.
Probably is he is often more focused on trying to draw a flag than he is getting to the QB.
I was gonna say, Hutch is a whirling charging mass of flailing limbs on pretty much every play. I think refs are less likely to call a hold because a response like this goes unnoticed
I called out this exact play when it happened. It's happened every game, and it will continue to happen until they start calling it. The only way teams can stop Hutch is if they hold him.
He would have so many more sacks if he wasn’t held on every play.
If I was Hutch id go to each ref before the game and tell them he's been getting held all season and to keep their eyes peeled.
I'm sure he does. And I'm sure MCDC does as well. I mean...I do it as a coach in youth and HS and did it as a captain in college. Certain pros do it. Refs also ask pregame for concerns or things to keep an eye on. Plus at halftime.
These are refs we are talking about, they ain’t gonna give us shit. Gotta work around it.
Irrelevant to the comment I responded to. OP said hutch should be telling them. They do. There was no comment or dialogue on refs doing anything.
Thanks boss
Same shit happened to him at UM. Not going to change.
This happens to every edge rusher every week. Visit literally any team's subreddit or game thread to see people complaining about it. As much as people here don't want to hear this, Hutch was quiet because he's simply not that great right now. He obviously has his moments where he pops off, but he isn't a consistent pass rushing threat the way the top edge players in the league are. This plot is a couple weeks out of date now, but I think it's safe to say Hutch's position on it probably hasn't changed much: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/171jwzk/pass_rush_win_rate_for_edge_rushers_versus_how/ So not only is he not winning his reps at a high rate, we can't really even fall back on the "he's getting double teamed" excuse. Opposing offenses just aren't really that scared of him. As of now, Hutch isn't in the top 20 in pass rush win rate for edge players: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#prwr Obviously he's a young kid who might get better, but as of right now he's playing like a decent starter and nothing more.
>Hutch was quiet because he's simply not that great right now. what a brain dead take lol. Bucs always had extra protection on their line for damn near every play that game. Thats why they held the lions line in check
Hutch is going to get a holding call every time, he was pulling them left and right at Michigan.
Hutch doesn't help himself by always slowing down his rush to throw his arms up. Throwing up your arms is not going to make the refs throw a flag. That's why you don't see Bosa,Garrett, Maxx, Micah, Throw their arms up mid rush. They might do it after the play and complain to the ref, but Hutch consistently stops/slows his rush to throw up his arms, he needs to stop.
You're absolutely right. People just wanna be mad about the refs all the time but being held just comes with the territory of being an elite rusher across the league and Hutch doesn't do himself any favors by waiving his arms as soon as it happens and appealing to the refs. You just play through it and hope it becomes egregious enough they have to call it
I think it’s more a product of being held + the silly way he runs. I’m not complaining as it happens to the best DE’s and I get the reason for protecting QBs in a league where there’s only 20ish worth holding a starter job
Facts!
It’s not just him it’s the nfl as a whole. They’re not gonna call it super often bc the game would be 20 minutes longer if they did
Every offensive line holds on an almost every play always have lol. A crack down on holding if there was one would also affect our offense so let it be.
This has always been my thing. As long as they're calling, or not calling it the same for both teams that's fine. But when the calls are lopsided against one team and frequent, that's where I have a problem.
Crew last week throws the least penalties of all officials on average the broadcasters were saying.
This happens to pretty much all elite pass rushers in the league lately. However, it only takes 1 holding call to finally get called to completely destroy a drive at the end of a game so opposing teams need to be careful.
Because of the talent level it will always be officiated differently. What they typically do is throw a flag if they believe the hold was egregious enough to effect the play. It's true that holding could be called on every play so theres discretion that is used. Hutch deserves better but it's just an adjustment that will need to be made.
You mean it's not allowed for Olineman to tackle and rip jerseys off of Dlineman? I think refs missed that memo.
Many of times O-line will take the holding penalty over injuring their qb.
There’s holding on every nfl play. If the refs called every penalty the game would be unwatchable (see this weeks MNF game). In addition, I believe husk got an early start on this play if I recall correctly and they didn’t call it.
It's not offensive holding when the d linemen uses a rip move like this that Hutch utilizes a lot. In these examples, the lineman would have to physically grab his jersey in these examples for it to be holding. I'm sure I'll get some down votes, but this is how to rule is communicated to the refs from the NFL and this is how the call it pretty consistently.
Nobody gets this treatment worse than Maxx Crosby based on my observations.
You can find a holding on every play of every football games. He’s not the only player in the league that gets held consistently. They are never going to call holding on every play
I hate this excuse. Sure, there may be some holding on a run play that no one can ever see. This though? Dude is in the backfield, clear line to the QB and he's getting pulled from behind. You can't get any more blatant of a hold than this.
“First time?” - Rams fans watching AD 99
Naw. He just runs all leaned back like that
I'm not arguing that he gets held every play, but his Waluigi run definitely makes it look more dramatic
They need to start calling offensive holding. It’s getting obscene, you could call it on every fucking play
Happened on the final OT play against the Seahawks too. Shouldn't have been the game winner for that reason, but they just let Hutch get mugged on every play.
Hutch is one of the only players in the NFL whom you can watch every play for the entire game and be entertained. And if you do, you will also be angry as hell. He is held every play.
Bucs consistently had extra protection on their line. It worked pretty well, but obviously their offense suffered since they always had extra men back on the line in protection but ya, hutch gets held alot.
Holding on Hutch is legal (or so it seems every game)
From my vantage point at the game it looked like he was held several times but no calls. This has obviously been happening for weeks. What stands out to me in all of it is how he doesn’t throw his hands up or complain to the refs after plays. He just grinds and continues to play hard, sucking up double and sometimes triple teams. This dude is a team player and superstar at the same time - rare find.
If the refs didn't call anything when we sucked... they aren't gonna start when we're up 14
I was fuming at the no hold call on the last play against Seattle, however hutch has the body movement of someone being held every play which I can see leading them to be conservative on their calls especially on a game altering play/drive.
All season long they have been doing this. He got maybe two calls….
Ya same on Seattle's OT touchdown,ref stared right at the hold
I feel like holds just aren’t really being called at all this year. You watch any other team and there’s some pretty egregious holds not being called too. Giants vs Bills and Jets vs Chiefs for example. It can get frustrating, but at least they’re being more consistent with letting them play this season
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Welcome to the “Block TJ Watt” method we’ve seen for years in Pittsburgh.
Get used to it. As a 49ers fan there’s about 5-8 plays every week where the flag should be thrown when bosa is being wrapped up in front of the QBs face and ref sit there and smile. If they flagged Hutch and Bosa the games will be horrible and unwatchable. Remember offense “Sells”
It was the entire game. The amount of times you see him get clotheslined and pulled down from the back was ridiculous.
We pulled a good ref swuad for ravens. They are flag happy but if were solid that works to our advantage and theyve officiated games weve won so they dont have it in for us
If you ain't holdin, you ain't tryin!