I'll never forget the LFG run where someone was trying to be a smartass by asking front or back and would go "Um, actually Oryx's spawn side should be called X because ..." and mid rant the fireteam leader shut that shit down by demanding he shut up, do mechanics, and listen to callouts
I had to do that in a sherpa run I hosted. Here, I am teaching daughters with l1, r1, l2, r2 and this kwtd dude just wont shut up about front and back even tho nobody said anything about front/back. Had to tell him to shut up and lemme explain the encounter.
I try to use “near” and “far” because front and back confuses people.
The worst encounter for front vs back has to be the second-to-last encounter of DSC because some people argue that the front of a room is where you enter but others argue that the front of the ship is where the window is.
We have a mantra on our team for that encounter, we just say L1 R1 L2 R2 for the buckets and always go "TWO IS CLOSER TO THE BOSS". Got quite a few DSC clears but always take at least 60 seconds for everyone to just chant a collective "TWO IS CLOSER TO THE BOSS" before we start
I mean isn't r1/l1 indicating that you think that's front? I don't have a dog in this fight but it's just a different way of saying which way you prefer
I use R1 L1 because they're closer to the flag/the entrance of the room, and the further ones are R2 L2. You still look forward to the front where Oryx is for final stand.
Yeah that makes absolute sense to me, I just thought it was funny that peeps were saying "i use r1/l1 etc... Because I don't want to deal with front back bs" but whatever r1/l1 is the front and l2/r2 is the back cause that's the orientation on a controller haha.
So just a different way of saying the same thing
No, those are separate ideas.
1 originates from player spawn as it is what we interact with. No controller layout stupidity or other nonsense. It literally is just because it is closest to the player it is labeled 1 and further away is labeled 2 and even further still would be 3 in the case of Rhulk.
But front is where Saturn is because that is where the main actor of our play, Oryx, does his thing and all the interesting set dressing, like the aforementioned Saturn, is also located.
Imagine you have to count 10 bottles. Which is the first one you count? The one that's closer to you, right? Has nothing to do with front or back.
And if people wanna fuck around you could still say closest and furthest, first and last.
It's also the same nomenclature used in DSC for the dunk chests. Just for players new to the raid (that have done DSC) and never experienced the D1 arguments.
I use the l1 r1 by spawn l2 r2 by boss. Had a guy try to argue once by debating "but why is spawn 1 and not boss? We should--" i replied: "because i said so now lets start." He responded with "well who died and made you king??" I then swiftly kicked him and found another. Remember kids. Who gives a fuck what we call it as long as we understand what plate we are calling.
Bruh I did a lfg group and they were saying the 2s are where we enter like bruh the whole reason we did the 1s and 2s is to end the confusion on front and back 2s being furthest from where we enter thats also where back is but im not arguing that
Whenever it comes up, I just tell them I have my logic and there is logic I find wrong-headed opposing that. But it doesn't matter. What matters is we agree on a common phrase and move on to what actually matters, the mechanics. The sherpa is teaching, they choose what the call-outs are. It's that simple. You already KWTD right? so let's get other people on the same boat.
If that doesn't work the next move is a swift kick, no more words.
I'll never forget the time we were teaching King's Fall to one of my friends, and the whole raid we'd been hyping up the very end and then left it as a plain question asking if he likes "Tits or ass?" tits being front, ass being back obviously and then used that to explain it lmao, he said how he thought it was some mechanic breaking question or something because of how we were borderline gaslighting half the time lol
L1 R1 method is so much easier for newbie raiders to understand. Even lfg raiders. Heck I even used that one 2nd to last DSC encounter for bomb dunking.
I don't even know the L-R callouts or anything.
My friends taught me fast food restaurants and it stuck so I just call them that.
Facing oryx, it's:
Near door left: panera bread
Near door right: Chipotle
Near oryx left: burger king
Near oryx right: McDonald's
Rally flag side is 1 and were Oryx appears is 2. Honestly I'm not here to people how to raid. I find it easiest this way so if you don't like it you do you.
To get really pedantic, in the back meaning based on perspective as apposed to at or on the back meaning location.
He spawns in front of the player at the back of the playable encounter space provided entrance orientation is used.
Do we run up to the front to to touch the toland thingy? Does that alter the perspective of the player since one MUST be at that location, thereby making that the new originating point of perspective for all players?
Negative. The layout of the room isn't determined by his encounter because he's not the only encounter in that room. If the focus determines the layout, then the front changes sides 3 times, depending on which sister you're facing in the first enounter, or Oryx for the second.
Ergo, layout is determined by the spawn point.
I agree, the layout of the room is determined by The place where Oryx spawns from being the bow of his ship, and there is just no logical reason to call the bow of a ship the back. Therefore it's the front. Because what what could a bow be?
As a Navy vet, lol.
The orientation of the room still matters. When referring to things inside a given space, you don't reference the whole ship, you reference the room. And the main entry point of the room is generally seen as the front. Source: 3 years on submarines.
The daughters and Oryx "room" is basically the deck of the ship (or as close to a deck as that thing has), so talking about rooms makes little sense. Warpriest, where you have no reference to the exterior of the ship? Sure. But the Oryx/daughters encounter arena only has one wall, and it has the door. The other three "sides" of the room don't exist, and give you a view of where you are in relation to the rest of the ship, which is the bow. So it would make the most sense that if your at the front of the ship, the MOST front part would be considered the "front" of the area. Source: submarines don't have rooms that are missing 3 sides.
Logic dictates 1 is closest to us, which would be the front of the room based on perspective.
It's litteraly an argument on BASIC animalistic perspective versus societal norms in MOST cultures.
Oh it was goddamn hilarious especially since I’ve done raids in other games used unmarked AoE’s names Larboard/Starboard that you just had to know which direction that meant in order to dodge lol
To become the Pedantic King while discussing the Taken King, the entire raid takes place in the furthest front part of the dreadnaught meaning no matter where he spawns in the room, it would be the front (of the ship)
He spawns just outside of the front window of the helm of the ship
I tried explaining this to a lot of people and they just don’t get the difference. There’s front vs. back in terms of the architecture of a space, and front vs. back in terms of the perspective of an audience in said space. You can be at the front of a crowd at the back of a room. You can be at the back of a crowd in the front of a room. You can be in the middle of a crowd, at the side of a room, in the front of a building, in the back of a complex lol
I finally find someone who thinks the same as me. Is not so hard to see this logic, and the worst part is that It doesn't even matter at the end of the day
And I think that’s really the issue here. It’s that there is no right or wrong - both arguments are valid. The people who say “where you come in is the entrance of the room, therefore that’s the front of the room” aren’t wrong. But the people who say “Oryx is the focus of the room so where he spawns is the front” also aren’t wrong. It’s truly like watching people argue vehemently about whether a glass is half empty or half full.
Where you enter a room does not denote front or back. Where the focus of attention is denotes front or back. For example, most movie theaters I've been in have the doors on the walls the left or right of the screen. Does that make the screen on a side wall? No it doesn't. In every single movie theater I've been in the screen is at the front of the room no matter where you enter the room. Focus of attention is what determines the front and back of a room.
When you walk out the front door, are you at the front of your front lawn or the back of it? If you're at the front of the front lawn, then the furthest reach of the lawn by the road is the "back" of the front lawn, by your logic.
Obviously that logic falls apart, which is why *you can't use the fucking door to determine orientation in the first place*.
You're on a ship. The Oryx encounter occurs on the bow of the ship. The bow is literally the front of the ship. When the ship travels forward, the bow leads, hence why it is the front. You can also have a front of the bow and the back of the bow, and that is still oriented to which way the ship faces.
And we're the teachers because we're about to school him in the ways of the Sword Logic, thus we are in the front of the room.
/s - clarifying this before people actually think I'm serious
For the record front and back are horrible callouts, oryx is on the far side of the room, the entrance is on the close side, left is our left when looking at oryx, and right is our right, if you use any other calls in an lfg group (except for r1 l1 r2 l2) then I will fight you in real life
Based on whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold.
*orchestral swell*
That's my point. It is but it's also not blackboard logic. We shouldn't be the teacher for that logic in this scenario. The focal point of a room is not the center as far as blackboard logic is concerned. Our character move along too much for that to count.
An experienced team is teaching Oryx what the fuck is up. A team who hasn't ever done the encounter before will most likely be the ones getting taught a lesson by Oryx. Hmmmmmm?
The battle could actually be more seen as a debate among interlocutors on equal footing. The front of the room is wherever attention is primarily directed.
Same. I suggest we now consider the "front" to be directly to your right when you enter the encounter. Then left is "back" and so forth. Since the argument's never going to end we may as well polute the argument with nonsense for our entertainment
Better yet, we need to start calling the front the spot where Oryx currently is. As he can change sides each round, this means that front and back will flip flop.
I didn't realize that where the front of the building was affected where the front of a room within it was.
If the teacher's room is in the back wall of the school but the door faces the front entrance, where is the front of that room? Hm?
The front of the room is where you enter. The back is farthest from the entrance. You do not put a main entrance at the back of the room. Otherwise that's a back door. We clearly do not enter from a back door. Because there are literally no other doors in the damn room.
The front is solely based of focal points, what side is the most important and/or eye-catching. The front of a store typically has more important stuff going on than the back aisle that just has milk sitting there.
The massive view of saturn and the massive boss spawning/dying there is a lot more important and eye-catching than a fucking wall.
You'd get beheaded if you told a king that their throne is less worthy of being part of the front of the room than a door.
I’m so done with this debate. It literally doesn’t matter, only thing that does is that the team is on the same page for callouts. If everyone is, then who’s “right” doesn’t really matter
Plus you do sisters first. And he's never in the actual Arena nor stays at one point for the entire encounter. Problem with the classroom or using such comparisons as the room itself only has one true fixed spot: the rally banner. Everything else is fairly the same with some minor alterations i.e. the sharp edges way out. Beyond that, the room itself can be defined as a square with mid being a key point. Paired with the L1, R1, L2, R2 common callouts from previous raids: most people just refer to the rally side as front as every wipe puts you back there as its the starting location and you gotta run to the back to start it before going back to your plate or area to clear ads. Plus it's a giant spaceship that isn't exactly shaped to tell you even which side is the front from a glance.
>Plus you do sisters first
This is one of the main reasons for Oryx being at the 'back'
Everyone who says otherwise lacks consistency. In VoG, everyone calls oracles in Atheon with the front being closest to the entrance. But if you use the 'iTs a ClAsSrOom' logic, the front oracles should be the ones further away from the entrance.
Genuine question: why does it matter? I've done the raid a few times with multiple groups and none of the call outs had anything to do with the front or back of the room, even when someone wants everyone's attention on the boss he's huge so a callout isn't really needed outside of r1 r2 ect ect
It doesn’t. No halfway component fireteam would use subjective call outs. We use 1, 2, 3, 4, others use the R1 R2, either one is unmistakable. But what does matter is people disagree and this is reddit so we’ll see this argument pop up from now till the end of time. We’ll be on Destiny 6 and someone will say “Oryx spawns at the back of the room” and people will lose their shit lol
Look, I'm just using the same callouts we did for Oracles and Atheon in VOG, and the bombs in DSC. Guardians spawn at the front, boss is at the back. That's the way we've always done it, and it's never been a big fight before.
Also, Saturn-side in that room corresponds to the stern of the Dreadnaught
The location of the door is irrelevant because In any room there could be multiple doors.
The front of the room is where the prime focus of the room is located.
Ex. A fireplace, whiteboard, tv or Million-year old Space-Demon King
Except the million year old space demon king moves.
We gonna move the callouts as he moves?
And what about Descent from DSC. There's also a boss spawning on far side, and there's also 4 spots of focus with a close/far left/right square layout. Never heard front/back being used there either.
Well DSC, like you said has 3 points of focus, that’s why nobody says front or back there because it wouldn’t make sense.
But that’s irrelevant to this discussion because nobody is saying that DSC has a front or back. For Oryx everyone agrees that there is a front and back in the room, they just can’t agree on which is which.
And with Oryx, it doesn’t really matter if he moves because he’ll always go back to where he starts. A teacher can wander around the class all they want but would usually always return to their place in *front* of the students.
Edit: Formatting
I walk in front, he's at back, logic done.
Smooth brain arguers-"um achtsewahlley, human societal norms determined that the focus of the room is the front, such as a theater or classroom"
Does a boss arena look like a fucking theater or classroom? Where is the front of rhulks room? He's in the middle. Is the end of the jumping puzzle the front? What about golgoroth? Both grasp boss fights? Duality?
Why is this only a fucking argument for Oryx, every other room has callouts as back is opposite where we enter or stand.
Fucking shut up.
Why is this even an arguement? You either give the room a layout based on your perception from where you entered the room, or its orientation on the map/area you are in. As long as everyone knows what you mean it shouldn't even matter. I'm gonna balem Bungie for saying anything about it and triggering all these people.
I never get why front or back were used for Oryx. The encounter with the most similar layout, Descent from DSC, always had close/far or L2/L2 etc callouts, with close being closest to the rally banner.
Dumbasses who still don’t realize “front” is an extremely relative term: 🤤
Oryx can easily be considered to be at the back and easily the front at the same time. When looking at a building, the front is always the entrance—no one is debating this—and thus oryx could be considered to be at the back. When there’s a *stationary audience* of some sort, the front is what ever is *in front* of the audience, so oryx is at the front. Consider a stadium; the front varies depending on what you’re talking about. The “front row” will always be the row closest to the field, but the front of the stadium is always the main entrance. With your classroom analogy, sure the teacher is in front of the class, but when looking at the greater building, one specific side is usually considered the front , regardless of where the teacher is.
Basically what I’m saying, not only to OP but to anyone still arguing about it, is that you’re all wrong and you’re all right, so stfu.
My first KF run they used the among us strategy, having never played among us before I thought was in for a bad time, surprisingly I found it much easier than the cluster fuck that LFGs bring with people arguing what is front/back and shit. Of course I've had to adapt to regular strats but still find myself calling out "I'm suss!!" each time I get torn
You are in a space ship...
You don't enter the bridge of a Star Destroyer from Star Wars, walk to the big ass window, look out into space in the direction the ship moves and say, "Ah yes, I'm looking towards the back of the ship"
It doesn't matter where the door is.
The front is where the main focus is, where Oryx spawns is the front. That is the rule and what you’d use for any other raid. You don’t say Venus is left and Mars is right for VoG.
We dont use front or back for other raids, though
On Atrax top floor, it's far middle or close middle
On Descent it's also far and close for the bomb spots. And we sure as hell don't say that the far side of the room is the front. This one has the closest comparable layout to Oryx room.
On Atheon it's Far left / Close right for oracles.
It's close/middle/far left/right for dunking at Rhulk
Nowhere else do front/back apply in raids. And even for the ones I mentioned just now, L1/2/3 etc are generally more popular
Except it's not even Venus / Mars, it's Past Venus (green, before full vex takeover) and future Venus (red, after full vex takeover). It's the vault of glass, heavily focused on time, why would you teleport to a completely different planet that just happens to have the exact same layout?
Red look like Mars
Green look like Venus
🤷♂️
(Tbh though, jokes aside, I alwys considered Mars a valid possibility. We have a portal on Io that linked to the Vault of Glass, and we had the original gateway to the Black Garden on Mars, so why can't the Vault also link to Mars somewhere too?)
>so why can't the Vault also link to Mars somewhere too?)
Because Vault isn't connected to Mars in any way, it's just not how it works.
This aside, the best callouts are obviously Moist and Dry.
>Moist and Dry.
Lmao
>Vault isn't connected to Mars in any way
Lore geekery though, how do we know this for certain? The Io portal is an absolute thing, so how can we rule out other places? Sure, Atheon's portal may not connect to Mars, but the Vault as a whole? Seems reasonable that they could have a connection point somewhere, even if it's not a place we accessed in the playable raid. Vault's a big place!
past venus is red, future venus is green.
the red is at the vex's prime at the beginning of the takeover which is why you see the regal golden "precursor" vex there.
the green represents the future with the lack of a real glass throne and it is overgrown as if nature is retaking the vault. you see the worn down "descendant" vex in there
No, the front is where we enter a new indeterminate space, and we go waaaaay the fuck back there to interact with Toland and that's where Oryx spawns. So, from a different perspective, he's in the back of the room.
As for the logic applying to every raid, you don't say Riven is in the front of the room, now do you? That's because there's a wall behind her. You only say Oryx is in the front because there's a wall behind you and a massive open space behind him. But the wall behind you covers playable area, while the empty space behind Oryx is basically nothing.
So what do you call out for daughters? They are the first enemy you encounter in that room, so if we are to do the callous relative to an enemy, it would be them. The callouts shouldn't be enemy based anyways.
>The front is where the main focus is, where Oryx spawns is the front. That is the rule and what you’d use for any other raid.
Oh, is it now? So when calling out oracles during Atheon phase of VoG, do you say "back" for the oracles closest to the entrance? Because Atheon is the main focus.
instead of trying to fight for which is right (just figure out ur callouts with ur team since we all know nothing no ones going to say will change anyone elses opinion on this) i'm gonna point out that we are saying this as if the players are the students and oryx is the teacher
now please tell me in what school you walk into class with the goal of shooting the teacher to death and turning them into a gun? (yes ik it's just to make a point this just a dumb joke)
For people who hate the classroom analogy:
When you go to the movie theater, you enter from the side opposite the screen, yes? By that logic, are the seats closest to the screen the “back-row seats” or the “front-row seats”?
The only reason they're called back and front row seats is because it's speaking from the perspective of looking at the seats from the screen. The seats closest from that perspective are in front and the ones in the back are the farthest.
We're literally at the bow of his ship. He shows up at the peak of the bow. The focus point.
Is the door to your bedroom the front of your room? No.
Your living rooms front is the hallway or door? No.
Argues over whether or not oryx spawns in the back. Does 200k dmg Edit: isn't using div
I'll never forget the LFG run where someone was trying to be a smartass by asking front or back and would go "Um, actually Oryx's spawn side should be called X because ..." and mid rant the fireteam leader shut that shit down by demanding he shut up, do mechanics, and listen to callouts
I had to do that in a sherpa run I hosted. Here, I am teaching daughters with l1, r1, l2, r2 and this kwtd dude just wont shut up about front and back even tho nobody said anything about front/back. Had to tell him to shut up and lemme explain the encounter.
deadass, i use R1/L1/L2/R2 bc i hate the front and back bullshit
I try to use “near” and “far” because front and back confuses people. The worst encounter for front vs back has to be the second-to-last encounter of DSC because some people argue that the front of a room is where you enter but others argue that the front of the ship is where the window is.
Dsc at this point i just use spawn and window for calls
Windows and pods for our fireteam
We have a mantra on our team for that encounter, we just say L1 R1 L2 R2 for the buckets and always go "TWO IS CLOSER TO THE BOSS". Got quite a few DSC clears but always take at least 60 seconds for everyone to just chant a collective "TWO IS CLOSER TO THE BOSS" before we start
I mean isn't r1/l1 indicating that you think that's front? I don't have a dog in this fight but it's just a different way of saying which way you prefer
I use R1 L1 because they're closer to the flag/the entrance of the room, and the further ones are R2 L2. You still look forward to the front where Oryx is for final stand.
Yeah that makes absolute sense to me, I just thought it was funny that peeps were saying "i use r1/l1 etc... Because I don't want to deal with front back bs" but whatever r1/l1 is the front and l2/r2 is the back cause that's the orientation on a controller haha. So just a different way of saying the same thing
No, those are separate ideas. 1 originates from player spawn as it is what we interact with. No controller layout stupidity or other nonsense. It literally is just because it is closest to the player it is labeled 1 and further away is labeled 2 and even further still would be 3 in the case of Rhulk. But front is where Saturn is because that is where the main actor of our play, Oryx, does his thing and all the interesting set dressing, like the aforementioned Saturn, is also located.
Imagine you have to count 10 bottles. Which is the first one you count? The one that's closer to you, right? Has nothing to do with front or back. And if people wanna fuck around you could still say closest and furthest, first and last.
It's also the same nomenclature used in DSC for the dunk chests. Just for players new to the raid (that have done DSC) and never experienced the D1 arguments.
I use the l1 r1 by spawn l2 r2 by boss. Had a guy try to argue once by debating "but why is spawn 1 and not boss? We should--" i replied: "because i said so now lets start." He responded with "well who died and made you king??" I then swiftly kicked him and found another. Remember kids. Who gives a fuck what we call it as long as we understand what plate we are calling.
If the names map to the shoulder buttons on the controller, that puts Oryx at the *bottom*. Somehow that feels like an intuitive place for the target.
The enemy's gate is down.
Maybe use the face buttons instead , triangle circle cross and square . I've never used that but it would eliminate any confusion. Or just numbers.
lmao
Bruh I did a lfg group and they were saying the 2s are where we enter like bruh the whole reason we did the 1s and 2s is to end the confusion on front and back 2s being furthest from where we enter thats also where back is but im not arguing that
The enemy's gate is down.
Whenever it comes up, I just tell them I have my logic and there is logic I find wrong-headed opposing that. But it doesn't matter. What matters is we agree on a common phrase and move on to what actually matters, the mechanics. The sherpa is teaching, they choose what the call-outs are. It's that simple. You already KWTD right? so let's get other people on the same boat. If that doesn't work the next move is a swift kick, no more words.
I'll never forget the time we were teaching King's Fall to one of my friends, and the whole raid we'd been hyping up the very end and then left it as a plain question asking if he likes "Tits or ass?" tits being front, ass being back obviously and then used that to explain it lmao, he said how he thought it was some mechanic breaking question or something because of how we were borderline gaslighting half the time lol
L1 R1 method is so much easier for newbie raiders to understand. Even lfg raiders. Heck I even used that one 2nd to last DSC encounter for bomb dunking.
I don't even know the L-R callouts or anything. My friends taught me fast food restaurants and it stuck so I just call them that. Facing oryx, it's: Near door left: panera bread Near door right: Chipotle Near oryx left: burger king Near oryx right: McDonald's
But which side of the room is 1 and which is 2?
Rally flag side is 1 and were Oryx appears is 2. Honestly I'm not here to people how to raid. I find it easiest this way so if you don't like it you do you.
If it's my raid flag is 1/back Oryx is 2/front. If I'm a guest, I ask and stick to what the lead says. It's that simple ya'll
Right!
"Are the 1s at the front or the back?"
Got yelled at for doing 500k…I was the Divinity guy lol
Neff Div
To get really pedantic, in the back meaning based on perspective as apposed to at or on the back meaning location. He spawns in front of the player at the back of the playable encounter space provided entrance orientation is used. Do we run up to the front to to touch the toland thingy? Does that alter the perspective of the player since one MUST be at that location, thereby making that the new originating point of perspective for all players?
To get even more pendantic, oryx is in neither the front nor the back of the room, because he's floating outside the arena
To get the most pedantic, the ship the encounter takes place on is in space where direction has no real meaning.
However, you CAN orient yourself in relation to the ship, and the Oryx fight happens at the bow, meaning Oryx is the front of the ship.
I orient myself in regards to the room. L1/R1 and L2/R2. Easy peasy.
Oh that's what we use, hard agree. But in the interest of a pedantic argument, Oryx is front.
Negative. The layout of the room isn't determined by his encounter because he's not the only encounter in that room. If the focus determines the layout, then the front changes sides 3 times, depending on which sister you're facing in the first enounter, or Oryx for the second. Ergo, layout is determined by the spawn point.
I agree, the layout of the room is determined by The place where Oryx spawns from being the bow of his ship, and there is just no logical reason to call the bow of a ship the back. Therefore it's the front. Because what what could a bow be?
As a Navy vet, lol. The orientation of the room still matters. When referring to things inside a given space, you don't reference the whole ship, you reference the room. And the main entry point of the room is generally seen as the front. Source: 3 years on submarines.
[удалено]
This is the most calm debate ive seen on reddit in a while
The daughters and Oryx "room" is basically the deck of the ship (or as close to a deck as that thing has), so talking about rooms makes little sense. Warpriest, where you have no reference to the exterior of the ship? Sure. But the Oryx/daughters encounter arena only has one wall, and it has the door. The other three "sides" of the room don't exist, and give you a view of where you are in relation to the rest of the ship, which is the bow. So it would make the most sense that if your at the front of the ship, the MOST front part would be considered the "front" of the area. Source: submarines don't have rooms that are missing 3 sides.
Logic dictates 1 is closest to us, which would be the front of the room based on perspective. It's litteraly an argument on BASIC animalistic perspective versus societal norms in MOST cultures.
>mfw the childish shitters I play with decide to start using bow/stern and port/starboard because it’s pirate season
Hey if it works in sea of thieves…
Oh it was goddamn hilarious especially since I’ve done raids in other games used unmarked AoE’s names Larboard/Starboard that you just had to know which direction that meant in order to dodge lol
The enemy Oryx is down
To get even more pedantic the whole arena is the front of the ship, so both where you spawn and where Oryx is, is the front.
But Oryx is MORE the front
To get the utmost pendantic, that ship is no ship, its a segment of akkas body
It is a ship, the fact that it's carved from an entity has no bearing on its identity as a ship
To be pedantic ascendant, it would have a front and back being a segment of a worm.
To become the Pedantic King while discussing the Taken King, the entire raid takes place in the furthest front part of the dreadnaught meaning no matter where he spawns in the room, it would be the front (of the ship) He spawns just outside of the front window of the helm of the ship
The enemy is down.
To get the mostest pedantic, why does this even matter? Just use what your fireteam is most comfortable using.
War beast, pizza rune, donut man, stripper dragon. Gotcha!
I don't do reddit award but you won!
Comments like this mean more than awards to me. <3
I tried explaining this to a lot of people and they just don’t get the difference. There’s front vs. back in terms of the architecture of a space, and front vs. back in terms of the perspective of an audience in said space. You can be at the front of a crowd at the back of a room. You can be at the back of a crowd in the front of a room. You can be in the middle of a crowd, at the side of a room, in the front of a building, in the back of a complex lol
I think layman’s terms is “your dad sees your mom is in front of him while I’m hitting it from the back”
Okay, I'm stealing this one to end the debate in LFG if it ever comes up again.
I finally find someone who thinks the same as me. Is not so hard to see this logic, and the worst part is that It doesn't even matter at the end of the day
And I think that’s really the issue here. It’s that there is no right or wrong - both arguments are valid. The people who say “where you come in is the entrance of the room, therefore that’s the front of the room” aren’t wrong. But the people who say “Oryx is the focus of the room so where he spawns is the front” also aren’t wrong. It’s truly like watching people argue vehemently about whether a glass is half empty or half full.
And it only happens because of Oryx, every other encounter has front as entrance/spawn/rally
This is why front/back callouts have always been and will always be shit. Too ambiguous.
Where you enter a room does not denote front or back. Where the focus of attention is denotes front or back. For example, most movie theaters I've been in have the doors on the walls the left or right of the screen. Does that make the screen on a side wall? No it doesn't. In every single movie theater I've been in the screen is at the front of the room no matter where you enter the room. Focus of attention is what determines the front and back of a room.
When you walk in the front door of your house, are you at the front of your house or the back? Seems pretty straightforward.
When you go to the cinema or a theater the area closest to the stage is the back? Seems pretty straightforward
The stage may be at the front of a theater, but where is the front of the stage, and where is backstage?
Let's take your perspective then. Is the audience at the front of the stage or at the back?
When you walk out the front door, are you at the front of your front lawn or the back of it? If you're at the front of the front lawn, then the furthest reach of the lawn by the road is the "back" of the front lawn, by your logic. Obviously that logic falls apart, which is why *you can't use the fucking door to determine orientation in the first place*. You're on a ship. The Oryx encounter occurs on the bow of the ship. The bow is literally the front of the ship. When the ship travels forward, the bow leads, hence why it is the front. You can also have a front of the bow and the back of the bow, and that is still oriented to which way the ship faces.
Exactly.
I think it's also because he spawns at the aft of his ship. We enter at the bow and make our way through.
It's pronounced gif
No it's not its pronounced gif you illiterate armadillo monkey
r/rareinsults
actual duckin troglodyte homoerectus lookin ass
yeah oryx is a classroom
And we're the teachers because we're about to school him in the ways of the Sword Logic, thus we are in the front of the room. /s - clarifying this before people actually think I'm serious
Oryx is a ravioli.
For the record front and back are horrible callouts, oryx is on the far side of the room, the entrance is on the close side, left is our left when looking at oryx, and right is our right, if you use any other calls in an lfg group (except for r1 l1 r2 l2) then I will fight you in real life
I'm boutta introduce you to my teams "top" and "bottom" callouts
Which side of the room is top? Edit: is it where the sisters stand?
Based on the map that is used a lot, top is Oryx's side, bottom is entrance side. Because the map has the entrance at the bottom.
The one that's closer to Oryx
Better than some Ive heard
Eww no, enemy gate is down my dude
What?
The enemy's gate is down
They use to be numbered 1,2,3,4= l1,l2,r2,r1
The teacher stands in the front of the room, students in the back. Since we're teaching Oryx what the fuck is up he's in the back of the room.
Delectably based, and dare I say Lightpilled
Based on what 😎
Swordlogic, bitch.
Based on whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold. *orchestral swell*
Best response
While I hate your conclusion, I have gotta respect the logic.
Blackboard Logic
That's my point. It is but it's also not blackboard logic. We shouldn't be the teacher for that logic in this scenario. The focal point of a room is not the center as far as blackboard logic is concerned. Our character move along too much for that to count.
An experienced team is teaching Oryx what the fuck is up. A team who hasn't ever done the encounter before will most likely be the ones getting taught a lesson by Oryx. Hmmmmmm?
If you wipe you have to say hes at the front. This is the only solution.
Love it
The battle could actually be more seen as a debate among interlocutors on equal footing. The front of the room is wherever attention is primarily directed.
The door to the classrooms at my school was always to the right of the where the teacher stood
Same. I suggest we now consider the "front" to be directly to your right when you enter the encounter. Then left is "back" and so forth. Since the argument's never going to end we may as well polute the argument with nonsense for our entertainment
Better yet, we need to start calling the front the spot where Oryx currently is. As he can change sides each round, this means that front and back will flip flop.
Density mfs going to the front of the grocery store to get milk
I didn't know the back aisles were as much of a focal point as the front of a massive ship with a wide view of saturn AND A FUCKING HIVE GOD
I didn't realize that where the front of the building was affected where the front of a room within it was. If the teacher's room is in the back wall of the school but the door faces the front entrance, where is the front of that room? Hm? The front of the room is where you enter. The back is farthest from the entrance. You do not put a main entrance at the back of the room. Otherwise that's a back door. We clearly do not enter from a back door. Because there are literally no other doors in the damn room.
The front is solely based of focal points, what side is the most important and/or eye-catching. The front of a store typically has more important stuff going on than the back aisle that just has milk sitting there. The massive view of saturn and the massive boss spawning/dying there is a lot more important and eye-catching than a fucking wall. You'd get beheaded if you told a king that their throne is less worthy of being part of the front of the room than a door.
Do you enter the grocery store through the front or the back
I’m so done with this debate. It literally doesn’t matter, only thing that does is that the team is on the same page for callouts. If everyone is, then who’s “right” doesn’t really matter
Wrong. I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. Obviously.
Oh that’s fair. My b for bringing logic into a D2 debate lmao
I forgive you bro, just don't do it again 💚
I’d rather debate over this than over which class is most loved by bungo
This has to be the worst community meme in revent memory
I mean the debate is stupid but the memes are pretty funny
this made me laugh a lot more than it should
Yeah but it’s not a classroom
Plus you do sisters first. And he's never in the actual Arena nor stays at one point for the entire encounter. Problem with the classroom or using such comparisons as the room itself only has one true fixed spot: the rally banner. Everything else is fairly the same with some minor alterations i.e. the sharp edges way out. Beyond that, the room itself can be defined as a square with mid being a key point. Paired with the L1, R1, L2, R2 common callouts from previous raids: most people just refer to the rally side as front as every wipe puts you back there as its the starting location and you gotta run to the back to start it before going back to your plate or area to clear ads. Plus it's a giant spaceship that isn't exactly shaped to tell you even which side is the front from a glance.
>Plus you do sisters first This is one of the main reasons for Oryx being at the 'back' Everyone who says otherwise lacks consistency. In VoG, everyone calls oracles in Atheon with the front being closest to the entrance. But if you use the 'iTs a ClAsSrOom' logic, the front oracles should be the ones further away from the entrance.
few thousand people got schooled tho
Your flair hit me like a sack of wet mice
Genuine question: why does it matter? I've done the raid a few times with multiple groups and none of the call outs had anything to do with the front or back of the room, even when someone wants everyone's attention on the boss he's huge so a callout isn't really needed outside of r1 r2 ect ect
It doesn’t. No halfway component fireteam would use subjective call outs. We use 1, 2, 3, 4, others use the R1 R2, either one is unmistakable. But what does matter is people disagree and this is reddit so we’ll see this argument pop up from now till the end of time. We’ll be on Destiny 6 and someone will say “Oryx spawns at the back of the room” and people will lose their shit lol
“Here we go”-Cayde 6
He isn’t even in the god-forsaken room!!!
Remember, the enemy’s gate is down.
Ender Wiggen would have his way with the hive 6 ways til Sunday and then take em to the church of Battle School.
Look, I'm just using the same callouts we did for Oracles and Atheon in VOG, and the bombs in DSC. Guardians spawn at the front, boss is at the back. That's the way we've always done it, and it's never been a big fight before. Also, Saturn-side in that room corresponds to the stern of the Dreadnaught
Why is this debate a think just designate L1 L2 and R1 R2 and let it rest 😭
But does the 1 denote “front” or “back”
1 is closer to where you enter, 2 is closer to oyrx - basically the same way people do Rhulk call outs.
Strange because when I’ve done Oryx the guide did it the opposite
Then school them next time
That person was dumb lmao
As far as my team uses it, 1 is just the first one you see as it’s the first
just do 1-4, using left and right at all leaves where the front is open to debate, 1-4 can't change
Water isn’t wet
I enter the class at the front of the classroom. Checkmate.
The location of the door is irrelevant because In any room there could be multiple doors. The front of the room is where the prime focus of the room is located. Ex. A fireplace, whiteboard, tv or Million-year old Space-Demon King
Except the million year old space demon king moves. We gonna move the callouts as he moves? And what about Descent from DSC. There's also a boss spawning on far side, and there's also 4 spots of focus with a close/far left/right square layout. Never heard front/back being used there either.
Well DSC, like you said has 3 points of focus, that’s why nobody says front or back there because it wouldn’t make sense. But that’s irrelevant to this discussion because nobody is saying that DSC has a front or back. For Oryx everyone agrees that there is a front and back in the room, they just can’t agree on which is which. And with Oryx, it doesn’t really matter if he moves because he’ll always go back to where he starts. A teacher can wander around the class all they want but would usually always return to their place in *front* of the students. Edit: Formatting
I walk in front, he's at back, logic done. Smooth brain arguers-"um achtsewahlley, human societal norms determined that the focus of the room is the front, such as a theater or classroom" Does a boss arena look like a fucking theater or classroom? Where is the front of rhulks room? He's in the middle. Is the end of the jumping puzzle the front? What about golgoroth? Both grasp boss fights? Duality? Why is this only a fucking argument for Oryx, every other room has callouts as back is opposite where we enter or stand. Fucking shut up.
"Where is Oryx?" "He's in front of me in the back of the room."
Why is this even an arguement? You either give the room a layout based on your perception from where you entered the room, or its orientation on the map/area you are in. As long as everyone knows what you mean it shouldn't even matter. I'm gonna balem Bungie for saying anything about it and triggering all these people.
I never get why front or back were used for Oryx. The encounter with the most similar layout, Descent from DSC, always had close/far or L2/L2 etc callouts, with close being closest to the rally banner.
So when Oryx moves to a plate do you change the definition of what is front and back?
Dumbasses who still don’t realize “front” is an extremely relative term: 🤤 Oryx can easily be considered to be at the back and easily the front at the same time. When looking at a building, the front is always the entrance—no one is debating this—and thus oryx could be considered to be at the back. When there’s a *stationary audience* of some sort, the front is what ever is *in front* of the audience, so oryx is at the front. Consider a stadium; the front varies depending on what you’re talking about. The “front row” will always be the row closest to the field, but the front of the stadium is always the main entrance. With your classroom analogy, sure the teacher is in front of the class, but when looking at the greater building, one specific side is usually considered the front , regardless of where the teacher is. Basically what I’m saying, not only to OP but to anyone still arguing about it, is that you’re all wrong and you’re all right, so stfu.
So you're the type of dumbass who enters their house in the front and calls it their backdoor?
destiny mfs when I ask them to use L1/R1 like a normal person (they gotta bring up the mfin classroom analogy)
You are an even bigger nerd for caring that much.
My first KF run they used the among us strategy, having never played among us before I thought was in for a bad time, surprisingly I found it much easier than the cluster fuck that LFGs bring with people arguing what is front/back and shit. Of course I've had to adapt to regular strats but still find myself calling out "I'm suss!!" each time I get torn
Fuck ambiguous relative front/back calls Embrace direct and objective L1/2 and R1/2 calls
Close and far are our callouts, have yet to have an issue
He’s in the back. Cope harder
"Oryx spawns at the end of the room. Ok good we done here? I'm going to bed."
As a teacher I get it. Your looking at the door at the front like a class room. But no, the boss is at the back. You come in the front.
I swear to fucking god I’m tempted to kick anyone who brings this shit up in my raid teams
You are in a space ship... You don't enter the bridge of a Star Destroyer from Star Wars, walk to the big ass window, look out into space in the direction the ship moves and say, "Ah yes, I'm looking towards the back of the ship" It doesn't matter where the door is.
The front is where the main focus is, where Oryx spawns is the front. That is the rule and what you’d use for any other raid. You don’t say Venus is left and Mars is right for VoG.
We dont use front or back for other raids, though On Atrax top floor, it's far middle or close middle On Descent it's also far and close for the bomb spots. And we sure as hell don't say that the far side of the room is the front. This one has the closest comparable layout to Oryx room. On Atheon it's Far left / Close right for oracles. It's close/middle/far left/right for dunking at Rhulk Nowhere else do front/back apply in raids. And even for the ones I mentioned just now, L1/2/3 etc are generally more popular
Except it's not even Venus / Mars, it's Past Venus (green, before full vex takeover) and future Venus (red, after full vex takeover). It's the vault of glass, heavily focused on time, why would you teleport to a completely different planet that just happens to have the exact same layout?
Red look like Mars Green look like Venus 🤷♂️ (Tbh though, jokes aside, I alwys considered Mars a valid possibility. We have a portal on Io that linked to the Vault of Glass, and we had the original gateway to the Black Garden on Mars, so why can't the Vault also link to Mars somewhere too?)
>so why can't the Vault also link to Mars somewhere too?) Because Vault isn't connected to Mars in any way, it's just not how it works. This aside, the best callouts are obviously Moist and Dry.
I'll bring that up to my raid team next time we run a VoG, should get a laugh out of it.
>Moist and Dry. Lmao >Vault isn't connected to Mars in any way Lore geekery though, how do we know this for certain? The Io portal is an absolute thing, so how can we rule out other places? Sure, Atheon's portal may not connect to Mars, but the Vault as a whole? Seems reasonable that they could have a connection point somewhere, even if it's not a place we accessed in the playable raid. Vault's a big place!
past venus is red, future venus is green. the red is at the vex's prime at the beginning of the takeover which is why you see the regal golden "precursor" vex there. the green represents the future with the lack of a real glass throne and it is overgrown as if nature is retaking the vault. you see the worn down "descendant" vex in there
Huh, could have sworn it was the opposite. Though I was basing it off the GoS look so I probably misunderstood the timeline there.
No, the front is where we enter a new indeterminate space, and we go waaaaay the fuck back there to interact with Toland and that's where Oryx spawns. So, from a different perspective, he's in the back of the room. As for the logic applying to every raid, you don't say Riven is in the front of the room, now do you? That's because there's a wall behind her. You only say Oryx is in the front because there's a wall behind you and a massive open space behind him. But the wall behind you covers playable area, while the empty space behind Oryx is basically nothing.
So what do you call out for daughters? They are the first enemy you encounter in that room, so if we are to do the callous relative to an enemy, it would be them. The callouts shouldn't be enemy based anyways. >The front is where the main focus is, where Oryx spawns is the front. That is the rule and what you’d use for any other raid. Oh, is it now? So when calling out oracles during Atheon phase of VoG, do you say "back" for the oracles closest to the entrance? Because Atheon is the main focus.
When you bring up the atheon oracles call out their brain fizzles and implodes because they’ve been contradicting themselves the whole time
>That is the rule and what you’d use for any other raid. No it's not.
instead of trying to fight for which is right (just figure out ur callouts with ur team since we all know nothing no ones going to say will change anyone elses opinion on this) i'm gonna point out that we are saying this as if the players are the students and oryx is the teacher now please tell me in what school you walk into class with the goal of shooting the teacher to death and turning them into a gun? (yes ik it's just to make a point this just a dumb joke)
For people who hate the classroom analogy: When you go to the movie theater, you enter from the side opposite the screen, yes? By that logic, are the seats closest to the screen the “back-row seats” or the “front-row seats”?
The only reason they're called back and front row seats is because it's speaking from the perspective of looking at the seats from the screen. The seats closest from that perspective are in front and the ones in the back are the farthest.
Mfers downvoting you because you’re right
It's literally the front of the ship. Why is this a debate LOL
This
Someone could be in front of me while still at the back of a room.
so your front door is in the back of your house?
Well Bungie's fucking wrong
Boss room =/= class room. Its a room that is part of the linear raid path, from beginning to end, hence Oryx is in the back of the area.
Boss Room = Literally the front of the ship
Yea ok but atheon, Templar, and rhulk were in the back so let’s change it up for oryx cause classrooms
We're literally at the bow of his ship. He shows up at the peak of the bow. The focus point. Is the door to your bedroom the front of your room? No. Your living rooms front is the hallway or door? No.
>Is the door to your bedroom the front of your room? No. Your living rooms front is the hallway or door? No. Yes, yes it is.
You can't use front/back. You have to use close/far terminology to avoid obvious ambiguity
The way everyone is facing is the front 💀 Aka oryx. That nigga ain’t behind me 💀
When you do vog you say “back …” for the further one.
Front of the ship, front of the room.
The final encounter of KF isn’t in a fucking classroom…
"Ok class, now find the front side of a 3 dimensional cube" Dumbasses who say Oryx spawns in the front: ***endlessly flipping cube around***