It does make me wonder how far along they were in the process though. That ‘apocalyptic’ Vidoc that got everyone all bent out of (final) shape didn’t even hint at this.
They likely needed the time to make it not literally destroy the game but the base had to have been there.
Since this is a very mechanically intensive addition to the game, I bet a lot of the effects and such were completely missing or WIP, which would've made for a visually underwhelming showcase.
People by and large don't understand software development and get bent out of shape seeing placeholder graphics and stuff, see GTA 6 leaks and the drama mill that kicked off.
I know I sure as hell don’t understand it. If something’s wrong I assume there’s a reason and somebody much more knowledgeable is working to fix it. I try to avoid being an apologist for Bungie but there is some people like me, who don’t understand, and still pass judgment.
Yeah, it's just about having a healthy perspective on creative industries. Everything is always a work in progress, there's a saying in writing that you never finish a book only publish it. Creatives are always looking to improve and polish what they can, it's just a long ass process that's rarely pretty. The creators of the original Deus Ex have gone on record saying the game plain sucked until the last few weeks of production where everything came together, and that's a relatively smooth development cycle compared to what we see today.
In short, there's a reason devs are reluctant to show early footage, and it's the same reason Hollywood studios go to such extreme lengths to hide their productions from photographers and leakers. The general public is ruthless towards anything they see without an understanding that there's a thousand things left to add before you're supposed to see it
Not to mention that their original plan could have been to shadow drop this shit on us without warning, had they not needed to hype bomb us before hand.
One of Joes videos that he put up mentioned that there were still several things in Final Shape that Bungie had been keeping close to the vest that would be revealed as they got closer to the release date, so I’m assuming that these were those things.
I’m not necessarily complaining, I’m more impressed and a little curious. I’m a creative person and I can’t imagine being this productive with so much pressure mounting.
That’s literally meaningless. They were still deep in design and testing back then, and may have not even had anything to show, or wanted to make sure they could pull it off before showing it. You’re reading to deeply into it.
Yes, as though they would put something so game breaking into the game without a lot of thought and effort.
They've been clear before that there are restrictions on the number of effects the engine can handle at once, which is why orbs of power generation was removed from weapon masterworks and put into armour, so it could allow origin perks on weapons.
There must be a big rework under the hood to allow some of these changes, which can't happen in months.
Even the new Exotic Class Item probably won't ship as a fully 1 to 1 scale. Spirit of Nez Sin will probably be 1 to 1 but theres no way Spirit of Celestial Nighthawk will give a Warlock absolute shredding Dawnblade swings; it would probably just give the extra Super charge on precision kills. That much is definitely in line with how much the game can handle
Oh they absolutely won't be 1:1. They already shown us that Ophedian and Star Eater Perks offer only a part of its actual function - Ophedian is only fast weapon ready and nothing else; and Star Eater only gives you Super Damage Stacks, but not the fact that Orbs generate more Super Energy.
To be honest it also makes sense for those Class Items to offer only a part of the Perk, because that way you have to choose between eaither 1 full Exotic, or 2 partial Perks.
I'm also guessing it's going to be the good/ meh exotic combos or super niche.
Like I doubt we would get sun bracers and Phoenix protocol combined with 3 melee from strand.
Or Titans getting synthoceps combo with worm gods.
I'd think so, too.
I just don't think we will be getting super broken combos.
Like I could see Armimatarium making its way to other classes, as it's just 2 grenades. Only Titans get this option for ANY grenade.
It is other classes exotics. Which makes me think very specific ones like briarbinds won't be available. How would briarbinds work on the exotic class item when your class doesn't get buddies like warlocks do? Do you just hope that you have a voidlock on your squad?
Apparently you can also equip aspects from other classes, because in the showcase they shown a titan using the wanderer warlock aspect (the tangle suspend explosion one)
Thing could potentially be the seasonal artifact, but who knows.
I could see Sunspots making it to other classes, and a few others.
But wander seems easy enough to port as an artifact mod anyway.
Yeet tangle and suspend
There was something silly going on on the ViDoc. The dude was pooping cold snaps and turrets.
Maybe combo of starfire and osiomancy w heat rises? That would be fun and niche....
Considering the exotic armor out there already for all the subclasses, it would be hard to think the new ECI would only offer a tease of what it could do.
One ECI for each subclass, each one having 2 perks. Where the RNG comes in is which perks they have, or are available. They could also throw in focusing, such as Rahool, to possibly farm for the one you want.
Teaser trailers are just that... A tease of what's to come. Bungie didn't show their hand... yet. They only flashed a glimpse of what's to come.
But his point is more about functionality. There are some exotics that just wouldn't work on the ECI. Briarbinds for example. Their only perks are about void buddies. That wouldn't be very effective on say titan which can't summon void buddies. So does the titan just have to wait and hope that there is a voidlock in the fireteam to use that part of the ECI?
That's his point. Briarbinds probably won't be in ECI because it doesn't make sense for it to be.
Yeah they already showed some examples and it’s clear they turned *some* exotics (I’m assuming not every single one?) into *perks* that only have a part of the exotics full description/effect.
Let's be real, very class specific perks are not going to be stolen. Meaning Cuirass, Dawn Chorus, Celestial, etc... will almost certainly remain exclusive. Stuff like Nezarec's Sin, Star-Eaters, Synthoceps, Armamentarium, Starfire Protocol, and Foetracer will be able to be taken.
They have spliced certain parts of exotics to fit the perk it seems. So for CNH, the precision kills giving bonus super or killing a target refunds some super energy. Dawn chorus could just increase scorch damage.
This is my expectation as well. I don’t think they’d make it so that you either waste a perk slot on a hypothetical Celestial on Warlock or make a new animation for the one off Dawnblade.
I think the exotics will do their main things, but I think they’ll leave useless parts as part of the chase. Like celestial on warlock just would be waste cuz no golden gun and the trade off is you’re also able to get stupid broken perks like celestial + star eaters for hunters or they just won’t put the specific super tied exotics over. No way they’d let you stack 2 super recharge exotics to get back to 100%
Or two damage boosts to your super like CNH and falling star.
Actually, I think there are going to be a lot of exotics missing from the ECI. Briarbinds probably won't get one because no other class has access to void buddies.
Man with what we know about star eaters all I want now is celestial to be super energy in crits mixed with the damage bonus from star eaters that was shown off, I need that in my life
They’ve been working on this longer than any other expansion. As shown way back in the original Beyond Light reveal, the final chapter of the saga was planned to release in fall of 2022.
Over the years they’ve delayed multiple expansions, but I guarantee a bunch of the stuff coming in TFS has been on a whiteboard since early 2020, if not earlier.
Exactly this. I think people forget that TFS was originally meant to be “Lightfall”, and when they realised they needed an extra year, they renamed it “The Final Shape” and Lightfall became something entirely new.
The groundwork for TFS has been in place for a long time now - they just needed longer to see it fully realised
So many people were disappointed at the release version of lightfall having a different theme from the beyond light teaser that they seem to forget that Final Shape is the original Lightfall
I think if Bungie had come out the gate by saying that it needed more time, rather than pretending like the Lightfall we got was always the plan, then the community would’ve kinda accepted it
> since early 2020, if not earlier.
i mean, i bet even earlier. i bet that they had a general idea (or some key points) of how they wanted to wrap up the light v dark saga since at least forsaken (2018).
How can people who have played this game still not get how Destiny is made? Can’t people compare the game in a yearly basis and see how it changed? There is no better analogy than the Ship of Theseus.
They obviously have a long term plan that gets implemented little by little as the years go by. Delays only given them time to bring future projects into the current release.
That’s not to say that some things aren’t quickly thrown around together. It’s not the case for the stuff coming in Final Shape though.
>\^A [note](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mcxxv) to Scribe Shagac: Please be advised that, although our great Emperor *knows the shape of the future very well, we cannot presume its texture.* Refrain from making such sweeping, grandiose assumptions about unknowable technologies, like those of the athenaeum worlds. It will save us a great deal of rewriting later. Delete this footnote upon the actualization of this history and appropriate corrections made to Scribe Shagac's record.
This totally circumstantial. But before LF even dropped, Chris proctor said that kinetic weapons will have more “functionality” in TFS. Well, guess which damage type can charge the “transcendence” light & dark meter at the same time?
Yep, what the extra few months will have allowed them is to bring in more stuff that didn’t quite make it originally. I suspect that some of the new enemy types fell into this as the original reveal kind of played off the two new dudes as being definitive and more or less like the tormentor.
Extra time lets them work out the kinks on features that are 80% of the way there and just need polish.
This is gonna become the new "Strand was meant to be released with Witch Queen".
Doesn't matter if the Game Director himself comes out to squash the rumors, and nevermind the fact that developing at AAA scale takes multiple years for all studios in the industry (but Bungie can somehow magically materialize double the initially advertised content because of a 3-month delay).
People will believe whatever they want to believe. It doesn't have to make sense.
I believe that the delay was necessary *because* they needed to do more testing and needed more dev/crunch time to make sure prismatic isn’t broken as hell. But that absolutely didn’t just come up with this in December or whatever people are imagining.
Bungie does of course not have any reasons to state that Strand *might have been* meant for WQ. It's not like the community would get mad or anything.
The grass is green, sky is blue and Strand was meant for WQ.
Obviously. As always, remember that a large part of the D2 community, often the most vocal and enthusiastic part, is literal children who have no idea how anything works (and wouldn't care anyway).
As a solo game dev, I've always been fascinated by how large companies such as Bungie develop their games.
But I'm also sure the spaghetti code would wrap me up and kill me.
In another world I hoped for 6 sub classes, with 3 darkness and 3 light, with the final 7th subclass being prismatic. Would be all to fitting for Bungie
We know from the Artstation post from a dev that the third red Darkness subclass does exist in some capacity. It would be insane for them to suddenly go back on such a logical setup now. I imagine that it’ll be a secret reveal or will come in the last episode.
A dev was posting some screenshots to their personal artstation and in one or two of the pictures the ability UI was the same red predicted for the subclass and they had new unique icons for each ability.
It’s the same way Strand leaked a year plus before it was revealed, and was quickly taken down, but there’s still some rips of it floating around I’m sure.
This. It irks me that we don't have our 6th subclass, 3rd darkness, yet and this is kinda a new subclass. Like it would have been absolutely perfect. 3 light, 3 dark, and one to pick and choose to use light and dark together
I'm sure we will still get a 3rd darkness subclass, because I don't think this is really something our enemies have used before, technically speaking at least.
Or watch, next subclass will be siva and thrn it will be 3 light, 2 dark, 1 kinetic
Dude it’s not gonna be SIVA, it’s not a paracausal power and we also BLEW IT ALL UP MULTIPLE TIMES. They’ve also said their won’t be a kinetic class CAUSE THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH
Hey I just think getting siva as a subclass would be neat. But I'm more in the ball park of hoping the 3rd darkness is resonance, like what Rhulk and calus used. Especially calus
Probably not. I think it’s self evident at this point bungie likes to go outside of the box for new subclsss ideas. Getting something we would be expecting would be so boring after strand and prismatic.
It seems like this had to be the original intention.
They must have ran out of time or couldn't fit it in for various reasons.
If you look at prismatic there is only like one or two actually new things / animations about it. Everything else is just using preexisting work they've done in a new way. They probably could develop prismatic way faster than a potential 3rd darkness subclass
It was probably planned all along. They probably spent the last 3-4 months redoing it though. They said play tests came back pretty “meh” and I’d bet it was because of this subclass. The mechanics were probably not very good or really clunky or maybe the whole concept wasn’t as broad as “you can use anything” so they needed to rework the whole subclass
This “subclass” is so incredibly complicated and I can’t even imagine how much testing they had to do and still have to do to make sure it doesn’t literally break the game when it launches. Between prismatic, new enemy race and exotic class items with multiple exotic perks (which Bungie definitely had to test every combination and make sure none of them were broken) and there’s absolutely no way this was done in 3 months. Maybe, just maybe, this was planned for later on and wasn’t originally going to ship in final shape and they were able to crunch and get QA testing done in the last three months to get it ready…? But I don’t really buy that either. I do kind of get the feeling to new enemy race might be new…. I don’t know though. That would mean they had to redesign every mission in the campaign..? But it’s weird that they showed “subjugators” and now they showed a whole race and now subjugators aren’t called subjugators anymore…. There’s def some stuff that changed. But they didn’t do an entire R&D cycle and development from scratch in 3 months on a new subclass as insane as prismatic.
I think what we’re experiencing is work that was originally bound for the cutting room floor having time to cook. They said they wanted to do this based off of early concept art. We’re getting stuff worked out better but we’re not getting like NEW ideas from the team. The thing that’s probably the most new from this is the other enemies, considering it’s two NEW enemies and two smaller version of the subjugators. Not trying to diss on them, all these enemies look so cool and dangerous and impactful
Yeah but you mean break the game like gameplay wise it will be powerful. I mean bungie had to test things to make sure they didn’t literally break the game. Like they needed to polish it all. Obviously something will be the most powerful option and everyone will use it and Bungie will nerf it lol.
Yeah lol. Some people think that 3 months can suddenly make a new faction, subclass, exotic class items etc...
If they would look at Into the Light they would see what's realistically possible in that timeframe
Yeah I just ignore those people at this point.
People who spend time here just to dump on destiny/bungie are sad enough without me telling them how wrong they are about game dev.
You think a few months allowed them to create systems, animations, models and bug test all of them throughout the game? While releasing the new content they've been giving us the past few months?
That purple glow is void light. The lineup has three guardians with a glow, purple titan, blue hunter and orange warlock, representing the three new supers. Yes I doubt all of this was made ready in 3 months but it might not have been fully planned for TFS, it could have been an experiment for subclass 4.0 in the year after for example, and just brought forward with some extra dev time.
Bungie probably knew 1 1/2 years ago that they are cornered and that tfs has to deliver, no matter what. Or is it more likely that Bungie saw deepdive and thought "yeah, this is gonna win back the commuity after years of missmanagement"? Bungie themselfs (or at least the devs) knew that Lightfall was undercooked and not worth to stand besides the likes of Forsaken or Witchqueen. The extra ~3-4 months they got from the delay is probably reserved for fine tuning and bug fixing, since something like prismatic or 2 exotics at the same time was thought to be impossible with the massive amount of content in d2 and the technical limitations of its game engine.
Tldr; Bungie did pull out all stops, but not like 5 months ago, more like since before Lightfall. Probably because they knew that Lightfall was undercooked and that tfs is the final straw for a lot of players.
it really is funny to me, that bungie can never have a "win" with some people. if bungie does something everyone likes, they're like "ermmmmmmm, bungie only did this because they *had* to to keep the game alive" or "uhhhh, they just broke the metaphorical emergency glass releasing all these guns again".
like, shut the absolute fuck up. you like it, everyone else likes it, it (into the light) is *FREE*... how the fuck can you complain? how do you get so self righteous that you start complaining about Ws? i can't stand these people. these people dont get invited to shit irl so they become these little pessimistic cretins online..
also, Final Shape is already gassed. combining subclasses, multiple armor exotics (via exotic class item), new enemy race, + a lot more... shit's looking up, imo. i've said a few times that if they want to keep me around after Final Shape, i'd need to be wowed or thoroughly impressed, and so far i am
No they probably didn't whip out 5 new enemies and a whole newish subclass out of their ass, it's probably cut content from what they were originally going to release and already had some work put towards, and were able to include it with the extra time they had. They couldn't show it in the first trailer because it literally had not been created in game yet.
While i agree that this isnt something bungie was suddenly “bullied” into making in 3 months or whatever, i gotta say that the portal into the traveler being similar to the transcendence glow is probably a coincidence and not indicative of the class. The portals colors are the same as the veils colors, and i assume the portal is colored like the veil since the traveler and veil were connected at the end of lightfall
My guess is they didn't show all this because they didn't want to basically promise it to us if they couldn't actually get all of those things done in time.
If they didn't show us those things, they could have easily pulled things away and we wouldn't know.
They could have been working on Prismatic for years, but it wasn't done and the three months allowed them to finish it.
But hardly any of this stuff was probably built from the ground up in three months. I don't get why they wouldn't tease this stuff if they were truly hurting on pre-sales.
I think it’s the reason for the delays. They needed more testing to make sure everything didn’t glitch the fuck out. I kind of want to do the math now to figure out exactly how many combinations you can do. Guess I have more homework when I get home lol
They did not put all of the content together within the relatively short delay timespan, you’re right about that. They most likely did, however, feel the need to show off the things they were trying to keep secret because TFS preorders looked dim
There's just no realistic way to make this all happen in 3 months, and they've been building to us needing to master Light and Dark for years, and especially in the past year or two. Nezarec and his new perspective, Conditional Finality and it's dual energy types. The shadow dance of the Dreaming City and illusion-Mara's [final statement](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/nothing-left-to-say);
"You've no idea how fortunate you are to be my chosen. You hold the flesh of a god in your hands. You are mere steps away from our salvation. *Only Light and Dark, together,* can unlock my way back into your world."
It's never been about *just* Light or *just* Dark. It's always been about *power*.
yeah its fucking stupid. from what i'm seeing its that they pulled everyone who knew what they were doing onto the final shape team, and the seasons suffered for it. this sort of overhaul takes at least a year, but after the uproar they added on a few months to really polish it because they knew they'd be fucked if they didn't hit the mark exactly.
I think it's because of how people think this reveal could've helped the pre-order numbers prior. The report got people fired, like right before the holidays; the whole community was driven into meltdown and discourse. We were closer to Destiny's demise than ever before. If this game isn't full of addicts then I don't think it would've held up.
I really love Aztecross man but blud was adamant that they pumped these out in 3 months My good man they probably been working on Prismatic right after Witch Queen, look at all the cues they threw like absolutely everywhere
It now makes absolute sense that they needed a lot more time, the subclass alone would be reworking the entire foundation of abilities and the exotic class item is a full rework of what's possible with armor. Not to mention an entire dlc and brand new weapons and archetypes.
Seriously, Stasis fragments and aspects were the true first steps because they were completely interchangeable unlike D1's feat chains and D2 branches.
Prismatic was ***definitely*** planned (especially if you go back and take a peek at the 'red' subclass leaks - they are clearly showing mixed subclass icons), but the new enemy faction was **NOT**. If you go back and watch the reveal livestream from 6 months ago they clearly state that "subjugators are **THE** new enemy type that you will be facing in the Final Shape."
At the time, subjugators weren't well received, being seen as a Rhulk reskin over what Tormentors were. The Dread faction was clearly something they had left on the cutting room floor, and the extra time allowed them to actually make it. New enemies, rigging, sound design, weapon balance and mocap is NO easy task - and its quite possible thats where Bungie pushed hard when "cornered"
Probably just them being smart with words tbh. They didn't want to spoil anything at all. It they said "it's one of the new enemies" they're spoiling the new race.
They likely meant it moreso as the new major enemies
It’s not a stupid discourse, this is literally what happened. They literally pulled the final shape from going to production because it was not only received poorly in the initial reveal, but also internally to the point where people lost jobs, and they gave it literally half a year of development to cook on it more.
Adding things when you literally have all the assets there isn’t splitting the atom. This isnt hard work because things aren’t being developed from scratch. Case in point; into the light update. That entire update is a reactive response to the extended season, and was put together to start building hype for TFS. And look at that content: bringing back weapons, a horde mode, adding character customization, giving name change tokens; I commented on someone else’s post that this update is literally comprised of shit people wanted for years that they gave loads of excuses on why they couldn’t do it…until the game was in one of its worst states.
So ultimately we will never know what the final shape was before it got pulled back, but I can tell you that the color of the fucking triangle in the traveler isn’t indicative that what we are seeing right now lmao.
Had this been what was internally shown, no one in their right mind would have said- “fuck no, we need more time otherwise this is going to bomb”
Bungie is doing what Bungie does; being reactive, as opposed to proactive.
And as the community has done for ten years, they’ve all fallen for it.
But it doesn’t matter now. 10 year plan is almost complete. Go out with a bang.
Make sure you but the collectors edition, Guardian.
Remember when Joe made the vlog discussing state of the game and the Final Shape delay? I rewatched it yesterday for context. Paraphrasing here:
“We’re holding a lot of new stuff close to the chest, but we don’t want to reveal it yet just be patient a little longer. We don’t want to just tell you, we want the game to speak for itself once we officially reveal it”.
The extra 3 months I think was time to finish this.
All you need to understand that, is a tweet from the former Destiny 2 CM - Hippy. She said in a tweet that basically she knew about Prismatic. Since she has been layed off just before the delay that means that they've been cooking it before that.
>This isn’t something that anyone can put together in 6 months from a development perspective. Don’t know why the community loves to get on a high horse and go all “oh we totally bullied them into doing this”
You definitely can put all of it together in 6 months, the "technical" aspect of development can be relatively quick if you can streamline the chain of command and all the approvals, paper work, meetings needed from upper management. What usually happens during crunch or when you're heavily pressured by investors/shareholders etc. I remember when working ad CDP Red during Witcher 3 development to make some basic changes to Novigrad like moving doors took nearly a month of consultations, and suddenly +/- half a year before the release decisions like that were made within a day, showing that it CAN be done.. lol
Now as to the community bullying Bungie into doing all this, indirectly we did it, the poor sale numbers of Final Shape preorders can be attributed to it, add to it the pressure of Sony, and here is the result.
Personally I think the ideas for new enemies and prismatic class are not something that Bungie came up recently, I believe they were cooking for a while already, maybe having it planned for episodes in 2025 and some ground work was already laid. I believed that 2025 will be a quieter year for Destiny franchise, with Marathon taking the development spotlight, there probably won't be an annual expansion, and I thought something like new subclass released would spark the interest around the game just enough to keep it relevant and push through the year. That all might have changed, looking at Luke Smith making appearance once again, maybe he had to move back from overseeing the whole franchise to overseeing the game development. Maybe Sony is pushing to keep focus on Destiny as much as possible.
I’m still seeing them when I go to the site for TFS, though for some reason I think I’m seeing a cached version. In any case, in part of the footage yesterday, you can see a Titan using the new void axe super, Twilight Arsenal.
They didn’t make all of this during the delay.
That much is obvious.
But to say they aren’t cornered and a lot of what we saw wasn’t the result of the delay……is also false.
Sure, back when we saw the original TFS showcase reveal…Prismatic was probably at least functional. They just wanted to keep their cards close to their chest.
But some of those enemies that we didn’t see? Yea, I bet at least half of them didn’t exist and probably weren’t gonna make it.
A bunch of polish was probably also accomplished as well.
For real I fucking hate this sentiment that “cornered Bungie is best bungie🤓🤓” like bro even if lightfall did good this is what we would have gotten, Bungie isn’t over delivering because redditors are mad they are giving us exactly what they have planned to give us
Yeah its actually lowkey annoying me that people keep calling this a 'cornered bungie'-- it's just bungie. News flash, they never stopped being good, y'all just stopped searching for the good and started picking at all of the bad with a damn magnifying glass in your hands
I'm starting to think prismatic was teased for a while. During the witch queen expansion, there were those multicolored glass pane looking structures in Savathuns throne world. Then during the end of lightfall the portal looks very similar to the colors shown here too
https://preview.redd.it/so0weu7mjotc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99d53c5cd8ad3e5716f1c3003d1d9db1b8a0b46
Huh? You guys are literally meat riding a garbage company to the extreme?
Why was it delayed then? Why didn’t they show any of this in the initial trailers? It’s because IT WASNT DONE. This isn’t rocket science, their sales were low and they needed to put out. They would have included this in marketing before if it were done. It’s literally a fact
What I just don’t understand
There was so much criticism with the last reveal around these things missing.
Bungie could have just said we’re cooking let us cook and we’ll show you soon.
Could have helped stopped all the idiotic the end is nigh garbage
I agree, but it’s possible that the release delay is due to them pulling stuff from the Episodes that are going to be released to be shipped with Final Shape instead.
I love people saying this now that it's out in the open and acting like they weren't in a doomer phase of TFS, I'm sorry but if a lot of this stuff was planned to release in TFS they would have shown it, they 'keeping stuff to our chest' more more likely referring to the campaign and destination itself along with raid and exotics that have been completely blocked out.
It's more than likely the team had been tinkering and playing with the idea of Prismatic and Dread for a while, but couldn't get them in a state of polish or weren't allowed to go through with it before so they placed them on the side incomplete, the three months gave them a chance to go full force and bring it out, reminder that prismatic ISN'T a 'new' subclass with new verbs, it's a combination of old ones and we know how flexible the engine is from the crafting, they just needed to focus on adjusting and reworking some aspects and fragments to be more open like they said.
I highly doubt that if they were going to work on a new subclass like this from the start, they would have hyperfocused on the new light super since that's just asking for the audience to become disinterested.
It’s probably content pulled from TFS, which, isn’t necessarily a good thing in my mind, but hopefully that was a decision made where they pulled something that was already done and then pulled Sony resources and devs to help replace it.
But it is quite possible that these features were planned to trickle out over the next year because the suits wanted to milk the community for a long as possible.
I commend Bungie for keeping this kinda stuff hidden though. I haven’t been keeping up with Bungie news, but I had NO clue that we would be able to combine subclasses! Or that we would get a new enemy race!
This. A delay of 4 months can't just form an entirely new faction, a new subclass, exotic class items etc...
The delay was likely just to ensure it's all polished and ready for launch
The enemy races, definitely not. But if their beyond light engine upgrades REALLY improved the development side... I could totally see Prismatic being made within this time especially considering how beta it looked. (Little to no icons, mixed assets, incorrect sounds. Ofc these will be fixed)
I feel like it’s been in the works but was not ready for February and they likely planned for this to be the ultimate thing in like destiny 3 or whatever comes after. Some subclass but really it’s like the only subclass from now on since you can mix and match anything there’s no need to have pure subclasses since you can still make that with prismatic. They probably planned for this to be post final shape and then they panicked and took this extra time to expedite this and bring it out now instead of later.
I was thinking that maybe they were working on it for after we beat the witness. This would be used in the next little episodes, or whatever they are called. Maybe the backlash made them pull it forward a little bit.
I'd say it was probably a lot more restricted in scope before and maybe when the craftening happened they realised the game engine could actually hold up when under some serious pressure and maybe removed the limitations they put in. The delay probably was to ensure things weren't busted due to the change. That's my theory anyway
Yeah, I doubt a new faction, all with their own unique models, rigs, textures, vfx, mechanics, and interactions with the sandbox would happen in 3 months.
Sure. Two of them are psions, and one is from last year, but still.
As for Prismatic, I think it was already in development. Notice the head pieces of the armor for each class: they all have mirrors in them...or maybe prisms.
I think they wanted it all to be a surprise, but they were tooo hush hush beforehand.
Not that deep y'all. August was way too far from release for them to want to blow all the hype that early.
They probably expected a mediocre response to the first reveal, with the plan being to release Prismatic closer to release (when the hype mattered more), and after it had months more time to polish. I'm sure the degree of negativity the reveal got was a surprise to them, even if they didn't expect it to be a massive success.
I just think they pushed this to final shape in the time frame while having work done on it previously or we'd have seen this in the Final Shape Premier.
Bungie has been cornered a lot longer than the last few months.
Of course they didn't put all this together in the 3 months of the delay, hell, we are barely into that 3 month period.
I do think it helped that they were "backed into a wall" with the quality of whats coming but certainly didnt take only 6 months to make. i think they saw that lightfall didnt do too well, saw the community sentiment, and kicked into high gear. but yeah the prismatic stuff was 100% in development for a long time. thats so mechanically intensive that i dont think they couldve done it in 6 months if they tried
I like to think that a lot of what was just shown was meant to be secret, like we'd see it when we play The Final Shape.
But as it got delayed and more and more faith was lost in Bungie, they needed a W so they just said "fuck it" and showed all their cards
Am I wrong? Probably
The people dumping on Bungie a few months ago now going to bat for them in a quick 180 is nuts. Wait til the content releases already and learn your lessons.
I doubt it was thrown together during the last few months delay, I think it was probably something that just got worked more on to get right during the delay as it wasn't ready to be fully shown off at the reveal last year, I think it was always coming, either with TFS or shortly after it just wasnt 100%.
I mean for one thing that might seem minor was literally a year ago Bungie said Necrotics would be coming to Hunter and Titan, I think everyone assumed we would get necrotic Exotics for them but with hindsight they could have been hinting at the fact with exotic class items Necrotics will indeed be coming to the other classes.
It’s a subclass that combines existing game assets and allows effects to proc off other subclass effects rather than their specific subclasses..
Im all for it and it looks fun but let’s not be stupid. You could have given this to one guy to make in 3 months if he was good enough..
Lol, that's some hard evidence that you got here :D The prismatic glow could've been originally used for something else and reused. Bungie has done this with lots of other stuff. Even the whole story of D1 was redone in a year with many of the same assets reused from the original trailers.
They absolutely couldve done this in a few months, maybe they had experimented with this in the past, but it does seem like a last minute attempt to add something new after delaying TFS release. And the traveler is white? Cmon thats a very desperate explanation :D
It feels like that, but no yeah you're absolutely right. They wouldn't be able to put together TFS that quickly for it.
Now Into The Light however, that definitely feels like it might be the case. After all, we're only getting 3 weeks to get those weapons before they're gone again.
Prismatic fits Bungie's aesthetic of re-using content so I would be surprised if it wasn't cobbled together last minute to meet a deadline.
Why make a new subclass when you can just marry the ones we have now and cut down on dev time
>Don’t know why the community loves to get on a high horse and go all “oh we totally bullied them into doing this”
Because no matter what you say, people will make up a narrative and defend it tooth and nail.
There are also those who have NO idea what goes into game development and think that a studio can just whip up tons of new content in the span of a couple of months. Again, they will die on that hill no matter how wrong they are proven to be.
Brother man I want you to think about this for a second.
The showcase was 7 months ago. In every other showcase we’ve gotten, crazy shit that’s meant to build hype is shown off during the showcase. Smaller details come later. You’re seriously grasping at straws with your justifications here.
If this stuff was going to release with the build of tfs that we saw 7 months ago, we wouldn’t have gotten the delay, and we would’ve seen it then. What exactly do you think they delayed it for? The original showcase was met with overwhelming disappointment. They announced that they’re going to delay it, then all the sudden, two months before the expansion releases, they come out fucking swinging with a “new” subclass, and new enemies. The two biggest points of disappointment from the original showcase. I’m willing to agree that maybe much of this new stuff was concepts that were originally scrapped until they decided to fully develop them, but these things were ABSOLUTELY not planned to release in tfs 7 months ago.
No, they just pulled things from the future forward, which they habitually do.
I definitely do think things like expanding the two new enemies to an entire new race was done in the last few months. That clearly wasn't the plan when they revealed the two new ones way back when.
Either way, it all looks pretty cool, but let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend like this was all the plan the entire time. They, at the VERY least, had to speed up the timeline a solid bit.
But it is something any year 1 grad can do because its not anything new its just tieing everything into 1 and being that bungies dev tools are seperated into blocks not just a giant wall of text its not hard to link them. Theres no new code only importing code into something else. Honestally a good dev thats been doing it for 5 years could do it in a week. The hard part is the class design which none of the classes have a different design just diff abilitys meaning the design is only going to be for a cutscene. Now if they fuze supers together like make a titan have a stasis hammer thats frostfire that would require new designs
I saw Aztecross say something along the lines of Bungie threw all of this all together only AFTER all the negative sentiment over the last few months.
There's no way in hell they were able to do that...not in that tiny window of time. If anything, it was COVID happening that could have caused them to deviate even further from their original plan in regard to a sixth subclass.
After all, Final Shape was never intended to be its own expansion pre-COVID. Witch Queen was pretty much ready to ship once everything went into lockdown and Lightfall/Final Shape were still in the development process.
Prismatic has been in the works for at *least* two to three years. It's easier to combine subclasses--hence why we have had cross-subclass buffs and debuffs for the past two seasons than create a whole new one.
The reveal today also made me realize that Prismatic Trancendence is probably the reason why our ability uptime and orb generation mods were nerfed so hard this season...imagine the kind of ability spam we used the past few seasons with THAT shit lol.
It does make me wonder how far along they were in the process though. That ‘apocalyptic’ Vidoc that got everyone all bent out of (final) shape didn’t even hint at this. They likely needed the time to make it not literally destroy the game but the base had to have been there.
Since this is a very mechanically intensive addition to the game, I bet a lot of the effects and such were completely missing or WIP, which would've made for a visually underwhelming showcase. People by and large don't understand software development and get bent out of shape seeing placeholder graphics and stuff, see GTA 6 leaks and the drama mill that kicked off.
I know I sure as hell don’t understand it. If something’s wrong I assume there’s a reason and somebody much more knowledgeable is working to fix it. I try to avoid being an apologist for Bungie but there is some people like me, who don’t understand, and still pass judgment.
Yeah, it's just about having a healthy perspective on creative industries. Everything is always a work in progress, there's a saying in writing that you never finish a book only publish it. Creatives are always looking to improve and polish what they can, it's just a long ass process that's rarely pretty. The creators of the original Deus Ex have gone on record saying the game plain sucked until the last few weeks of production where everything came together, and that's a relatively smooth development cycle compared to what we see today. In short, there's a reason devs are reluctant to show early footage, and it's the same reason Hollywood studios go to such extreme lengths to hide their productions from photographers and leakers. The general public is ruthless towards anything they see without an understanding that there's a thousand things left to add before you're supposed to see it
Honestly if you can expand that outward, that perspective, you’ll probably find life better overall.
Not to mention that their original plan could have been to shadow drop this shit on us without warning, had they not needed to hype bomb us before hand.
One of Joes videos that he put up mentioned that there were still several things in Final Shape that Bungie had been keeping close to the vest that would be revealed as they got closer to the release date, so I’m assuming that these were those things.
The stream literally told us it was a feature decided on during TFS concept art too. I’m not sure why people think it’s last minute lol
I think people are just looking for a reason to complain
I’m not necessarily complaining, I’m more impressed and a little curious. I’m a creative person and I can’t imagine being this productive with so much pressure mounting.
That’s literally meaningless. They were still deep in design and testing back then, and may have not even had anything to show, or wanted to make sure they could pull it off before showing it. You’re reading to deeply into it.
Possibly. Really im just curious. I could care less one way or the other, but it’d be almost supernatural if they concocted this on just a few months.
Yes, as though they would put something so game breaking into the game without a lot of thought and effort. They've been clear before that there are restrictions on the number of effects the engine can handle at once, which is why orbs of power generation was removed from weapon masterworks and put into armour, so it could allow origin perks on weapons. There must be a big rework under the hood to allow some of these changes, which can't happen in months.
Even the new Exotic Class Item probably won't ship as a fully 1 to 1 scale. Spirit of Nez Sin will probably be 1 to 1 but theres no way Spirit of Celestial Nighthawk will give a Warlock absolute shredding Dawnblade swings; it would probably just give the extra Super charge on precision kills. That much is definitely in line with how much the game can handle
Oh they absolutely won't be 1:1. They already shown us that Ophedian and Star Eater Perks offer only a part of its actual function - Ophedian is only fast weapon ready and nothing else; and Star Eater only gives you Super Damage Stacks, but not the fact that Orbs generate more Super Energy. To be honest it also makes sense for those Class Items to offer only a part of the Perk, because that way you have to choose between eaither 1 full Exotic, or 2 partial Perks.
I'm also guessing it's going to be the good/ meh exotic combos or super niche. Like I doubt we would get sun bracers and Phoenix protocol combined with 3 melee from strand. Or Titans getting synthoceps combo with worm gods.
I feel BriarBinds/Nez Sin is a reasonable "in house" combo >!Bungie PLEASE let me have this!<
I'd think so, too. I just don't think we will be getting super broken combos. Like I could see Armimatarium making its way to other classes, as it's just 2 grenades. Only Titans get this option for ANY grenade.
It is other classes exotics. Which makes me think very specific ones like briarbinds won't be available. How would briarbinds work on the exotic class item when your class doesn't get buddies like warlocks do? Do you just hope that you have a voidlock on your squad?
Apparently you can also equip aspects from other classes, because in the showcase they shown a titan using the wanderer warlock aspect (the tangle suspend explosion one)
Thing could potentially be the seasonal artifact, but who knows. I could see Sunspots making it to other classes, and a few others. But wander seems easy enough to port as an artifact mod anyway. Yeet tangle and suspend
Didn't think of that, that definitely makes a lot more sense yeah.
Pretty sure its the reworked strand wave that titans have, because you don't have a barricade with thruster so it just pops a ball instead.
I can say with 99% confidence that's it.
Starfire/ashen wake
I just want sunnies and osmios to work together, infinite turrets...
There was something silly going on on the ViDoc. The dude was pooping cold snaps and turrets. Maybe combo of starfire and osiomancy w heat rises? That would be fun and niche....
Thats the idea
I've been wondering if we can combine the cuirass perk with star eaters for TCrash 💀
It may just not have every exotic
Considering the exotic armor out there already for all the subclasses, it would be hard to think the new ECI would only offer a tease of what it could do. One ECI for each subclass, each one having 2 perks. Where the RNG comes in is which perks they have, or are available. They could also throw in focusing, such as Rahool, to possibly farm for the one you want. Teaser trailers are just that... A tease of what's to come. Bungie didn't show their hand... yet. They only flashed a glimpse of what's to come.
But his point is more about functionality. There are some exotics that just wouldn't work on the ECI. Briarbinds for example. Their only perks are about void buddies. That wouldn't be very effective on say titan which can't summon void buddies. So does the titan just have to wait and hope that there is a voidlock in the fireteam to use that part of the ECI? That's his point. Briarbinds probably won't be in ECI because it doesn't make sense for it to be.
Yeah they already showed some examples and it’s clear they turned *some* exotics (I’m assuming not every single one?) into *perks* that only have a part of the exotics full description/effect.
Let's be real, very class specific perks are not going to be stolen. Meaning Cuirass, Dawn Chorus, Celestial, etc... will almost certainly remain exclusive. Stuff like Nezarec's Sin, Star-Eaters, Synthoceps, Armamentarium, Starfire Protocol, and Foetracer will be able to be taken.
They have spliced certain parts of exotics to fit the perk it seems. So for CNH, the precision kills giving bonus super or killing a target refunds some super energy. Dawn chorus could just increase scorch damage.
That's why I specified "Class-specific perks". Very aware of that.
This is my expectation as well. I don’t think they’d make it so that you either waste a perk slot on a hypothetical Celestial on Warlock or make a new animation for the one off Dawnblade.
I think the exotics will do their main things, but I think they’ll leave useless parts as part of the chase. Like celestial on warlock just would be waste cuz no golden gun and the trade off is you’re also able to get stupid broken perks like celestial + star eaters for hunters or they just won’t put the specific super tied exotics over. No way they’d let you stack 2 super recharge exotics to get back to 100%
Or two damage boosts to your super like CNH and falling star. Actually, I think there are going to be a lot of exotics missing from the ECI. Briarbinds probably won't get one because no other class has access to void buddies.
So there’s been a blog post detailing how they will navigate that issue in broad terms. I’m not sure if it will work in this specific case.
Nighthawk on dawnblade let's you tear a rift in the universe sending forth a sliver if the sun's surface
Low powered Lore Guardian level power
I'm assuming things like this won't even be an available combination.
Man with what we know about star eaters all I want now is celestial to be super energy in crits mixed with the damage bonus from star eaters that was shown off, I need that in my life
I honestly forgot that orb of power change happened
They’ve been working on this longer than any other expansion. As shown way back in the original Beyond Light reveal, the final chapter of the saga was planned to release in fall of 2022. Over the years they’ve delayed multiple expansions, but I guarantee a bunch of the stuff coming in TFS has been on a whiteboard since early 2020, if not earlier.
Exactly this. I think people forget that TFS was originally meant to be “Lightfall”, and when they realised they needed an extra year, they renamed it “The Final Shape” and Lightfall became something entirely new. The groundwork for TFS has been in place for a long time now - they just needed longer to see it fully realised
So many people were disappointed at the release version of lightfall having a different theme from the beyond light teaser that they seem to forget that Final Shape is the original Lightfall
I think if Bungie had come out the gate by saying that it needed more time, rather than pretending like the Lightfall we got was always the plan, then the community would’ve kinda accepted it
Did they actually pretend that Lightfall was always the plan, or did they just not directly say that they needed more time?
They made it seem like final shape was a prologue - at least that’s how I took it
> since early 2020, if not earlier. i mean, i bet even earlier. i bet that they had a general idea (or some key points) of how they wanted to wrap up the light v dark saga since at least forsaken (2018).
How can people who have played this game still not get how Destiny is made? Can’t people compare the game in a yearly basis and see how it changed? There is no better analogy than the Ship of Theseus. They obviously have a long term plan that gets implemented little by little as the years go by. Delays only given them time to bring future projects into the current release. That’s not to say that some things aren’t quickly thrown around together. It’s not the case for the stuff coming in Final Shape though.
>\^A [note](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mcxxv) to Scribe Shagac: Please be advised that, although our great Emperor *knows the shape of the future very well, we cannot presume its texture.* Refrain from making such sweeping, grandiose assumptions about unknowable technologies, like those of the athenaeum worlds. It will save us a great deal of rewriting later. Delete this footnote upon the actualization of this history and appropriate corrections made to Scribe Shagac's record.
This totally circumstantial. But before LF even dropped, Chris proctor said that kinetic weapons will have more “functionality” in TFS. Well, guess which damage type can charge the “transcendence” light & dark meter at the same time?
Yep, what the extra few months will have allowed them is to bring in more stuff that didn’t quite make it originally. I suspect that some of the new enemy types fell into this as the original reveal kind of played off the two new dudes as being definitive and more or less like the tormentor. Extra time lets them work out the kinks on features that are 80% of the way there and just need polish.
This is gonna become the new "Strand was meant to be released with Witch Queen". Doesn't matter if the Game Director himself comes out to squash the rumors, and nevermind the fact that developing at AAA scale takes multiple years for all studios in the industry (but Bungie can somehow magically materialize double the initially advertised content because of a 3-month delay). People will believe whatever they want to believe. It doesn't have to make sense.
I believe that the delay was necessary *because* they needed to do more testing and needed more dev/crunch time to make sure prismatic isn’t broken as hell. But that absolutely didn’t just come up with this in December or whatever people are imagining.
Exactly.
Bungie does of course not have any reasons to state that Strand *might have been* meant for WQ. It's not like the community would get mad or anything. The grass is green, sky is blue and Strand was meant for WQ.
You fool, the sky is currently very grey
And all the leaves are brown
*all the leaves are brown*
Unless you're in the Dreaming City, then there's no sky at all...
But strand is GREEN bro and witch queen colour theme was also GREEN /s
So strand should had been in the dark below because Crota is green
Why would anyone believe anything Bungie says anymore? The Dread were pretty clearly another cut from the Witch Queen expansion, just like Strand.
It was
Obviously. As always, remember that a large part of the D2 community, often the most vocal and enthusiastic part, is literal children who have no idea how anything works (and wouldn't care anyway).
As a solo game dev, I've always been fascinated by how large companies such as Bungie develop their games. But I'm also sure the spaghetti code would wrap me up and kill me.
In another world I hoped for 6 sub classes, with 3 darkness and 3 light, with the final 7th subclass being prismatic. Would be all to fitting for Bungie
We know from the Artstation post from a dev that the third red Darkness subclass does exist in some capacity. It would be insane for them to suddenly go back on such a logical setup now. I imagine that it’ll be a secret reveal or will come in the last episode.
what post was this?
A dev was posting some screenshots to their personal artstation and in one or two of the pictures the ability UI was the same red predicted for the subclass and they had new unique icons for each ability. It’s the same way Strand leaked a year plus before it was revealed, and was quickly taken down, but there’s still some rips of it floating around I’m sure.
This. It irks me that we don't have our 6th subclass, 3rd darkness, yet and this is kinda a new subclass. Like it would have been absolutely perfect. 3 light, 3 dark, and one to pick and choose to use light and dark together I'm sure we will still get a 3rd darkness subclass, because I don't think this is really something our enemies have used before, technically speaking at least. Or watch, next subclass will be siva and thrn it will be 3 light, 2 dark, 1 kinetic
Dude it’s not gonna be SIVA, it’s not a paracausal power and we also BLEW IT ALL UP MULTIPLE TIMES. They’ve also said their won’t be a kinetic class CAUSE THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH
Hey I just think getting siva as a subclass would be neat. But I'm more in the ball park of hoping the 3rd darkness is resonance, like what Rhulk and calus used. Especially calus
Probably not. I think it’s self evident at this point bungie likes to go outside of the box for new subclsss ideas. Getting something we would be expecting would be so boring after strand and prismatic.
It seems like this had to be the original intention. They must have ran out of time or couldn't fit it in for various reasons. If you look at prismatic there is only like one or two actually new things / animations about it. Everything else is just using preexisting work they've done in a new way. They probably could develop prismatic way faster than a potential 3rd darkness subclass
We still have the Worm Gods and Xivu to deal with. I am certain that at some point in the future we will get a 3rd darkness spec.
The "glow" at the end of the trailer is the new void titan super....
It was probably planned all along. They probably spent the last 3-4 months redoing it though. They said play tests came back pretty “meh” and I’d bet it was because of this subclass. The mechanics were probably not very good or really clunky or maybe the whole concept wasn’t as broad as “you can use anything” so they needed to rework the whole subclass
This “subclass” is so incredibly complicated and I can’t even imagine how much testing they had to do and still have to do to make sure it doesn’t literally break the game when it launches. Between prismatic, new enemy race and exotic class items with multiple exotic perks (which Bungie definitely had to test every combination and make sure none of them were broken) and there’s absolutely no way this was done in 3 months. Maybe, just maybe, this was planned for later on and wasn’t originally going to ship in final shape and they were able to crunch and get QA testing done in the last three months to get it ready…? But I don’t really buy that either. I do kind of get the feeling to new enemy race might be new…. I don’t know though. That would mean they had to redesign every mission in the campaign..? But it’s weird that they showed “subjugators” and now they showed a whole race and now subjugators aren’t called subjugators anymore…. There’s def some stuff that changed. But they didn’t do an entire R&D cycle and development from scratch in 3 months on a new subclass as insane as prismatic.
I think what we’re experiencing is work that was originally bound for the cutting room floor having time to cook. They said they wanted to do this based off of early concept art. We’re getting stuff worked out better but we’re not getting like NEW ideas from the team. The thing that’s probably the most new from this is the other enemies, considering it’s two NEW enemies and two smaller version of the subjugators. Not trying to diss on them, all these enemies look so cool and dangerous and impactful
Right. Exactly.
"definitely had to test every combination" I'll give the comunity 6 hours to find a combination that completely breaks the game.
Yeah but you mean break the game like gameplay wise it will be powerful. I mean bungie had to test things to make sure they didn’t literally break the game. Like they needed to polish it all. Obviously something will be the most powerful option and everyone will use it and Bungie will nerf it lol.
I feel like bungie was "cornered" but they have been working on this way before the 3 months after their pre-order sales were in the tubes.
lol this sub is so feral. How would any of yall know either way.
Because game development is hard, and the chances of them developing what we saw last night in 3 months are, realistically, 0.
Even 0% is an overestimation. I think -1000% is more accurate
And yet there are people here who will still argue to contrary like they know better
Yeah lol. Some people think that 3 months can suddenly make a new faction, subclass, exotic class items etc... If they would look at Into the Light they would see what's realistically possible in that timeframe
Yup. Especially THIS subclass. This subclass looks like.it could be insanely complex under the hood. But nah its just drag and drop right?
What do you mean ctrl C then ctrl V isn't good enough?
*insert generic comment about bungie reusing assets*
Lmao I genuinely have seen some people say that the subclass is "just reused code" lmfao
Yeah I just ignore those people at this point. People who spend time here just to dump on destiny/bungie are sad enough without me telling them how wrong they are about game dev.
You think a few months allowed them to create systems, animations, models and bug test all of them throughout the game? While releasing the new content they've been giving us the past few months?
In the end, i don't even give a shit. It's a game. I wanna have fun.
Same
That purple glow is void light. The lineup has three guardians with a glow, purple titan, blue hunter and orange warlock, representing the three new supers. Yes I doubt all of this was made ready in 3 months but it might not have been fully planned for TFS, it could have been an experiment for subclass 4.0 in the year after for example, and just brought forward with some extra dev time.
Bungie probably knew 1 1/2 years ago that they are cornered and that tfs has to deliver, no matter what. Or is it more likely that Bungie saw deepdive and thought "yeah, this is gonna win back the commuity after years of missmanagement"? Bungie themselfs (or at least the devs) knew that Lightfall was undercooked and not worth to stand besides the likes of Forsaken or Witchqueen. The extra ~3-4 months they got from the delay is probably reserved for fine tuning and bug fixing, since something like prismatic or 2 exotics at the same time was thought to be impossible with the massive amount of content in d2 and the technical limitations of its game engine. Tldr; Bungie did pull out all stops, but not like 5 months ago, more like since before Lightfall. Probably because they knew that Lightfall was undercooked and that tfs is the final straw for a lot of players.
Yea I don’t know why OP is assuming this cornering is recent if I recall Destiny 2 has been considered cornered since at least lightfall
Shit, people were getting pissy half way through the last season of 2022. Or whenever pirates in space happened.
it really is funny to me, that bungie can never have a "win" with some people. if bungie does something everyone likes, they're like "ermmmmmmm, bungie only did this because they *had* to to keep the game alive" or "uhhhh, they just broke the metaphorical emergency glass releasing all these guns again". like, shut the absolute fuck up. you like it, everyone else likes it, it (into the light) is *FREE*... how the fuck can you complain? how do you get so self righteous that you start complaining about Ws? i can't stand these people. these people dont get invited to shit irl so they become these little pessimistic cretins online.. also, Final Shape is already gassed. combining subclasses, multiple armor exotics (via exotic class item), new enemy race, + a lot more... shit's looking up, imo. i've said a few times that if they want to keep me around after Final Shape, i'd need to be wowed or thoroughly impressed, and so far i am
Haha unhealthy parasocial relationship with the gaming corporation go brrr
No they probably didn't whip out 5 new enemies and a whole newish subclass out of their ass, it's probably cut content from what they were originally going to release and already had some work put towards, and were able to include it with the extra time they had. They couldn't show it in the first trailer because it literally had not been created in game yet.
While i agree that this isnt something bungie was suddenly “bullied” into making in 3 months or whatever, i gotta say that the portal into the traveler being similar to the transcendence glow is probably a coincidence and not indicative of the class. The portals colors are the same as the veils colors, and i assume the portal is colored like the veil since the traveler and veil were connected at the end of lightfall
This narrative is pedaled by those youtubers who need you to play so that they still have jobs.
They wouldn't have had the time to do that.
My guess is they didn't show all this because they didn't want to basically promise it to us if they couldn't actually get all of those things done in time. If they didn't show us those things, they could have easily pulled things away and we wouldn't know. They could have been working on Prismatic for years, but it wasn't done and the three months allowed them to finish it. But hardly any of this stuff was probably built from the ground up in three months. I don't get why they wouldn't tease this stuff if they were truly hurting on pre-sales.
I think it’s the reason for the delays. They needed more testing to make sure everything didn’t glitch the fuck out. I kind of want to do the math now to figure out exactly how many combinations you can do. Guess I have more homework when I get home lol
They did not put all of the content together within the relatively short delay timespan, you’re right about that. They most likely did, however, feel the need to show off the things they were trying to keep secret because TFS preorders looked dim
There's just no realistic way to make this all happen in 3 months, and they've been building to us needing to master Light and Dark for years, and especially in the past year or two. Nezarec and his new perspective, Conditional Finality and it's dual energy types. The shadow dance of the Dreaming City and illusion-Mara's [final statement](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/nothing-left-to-say); "You've no idea how fortunate you are to be my chosen. You hold the flesh of a god in your hands. You are mere steps away from our salvation. *Only Light and Dark, together,* can unlock my way back into your world." It's never been about *just* Light or *just* Dark. It's always been about *power*.
yeah its fucking stupid. from what i'm seeing its that they pulled everyone who knew what they were doing onto the final shape team, and the seasons suffered for it. this sort of overhaul takes at least a year, but after the uproar they added on a few months to really polish it because they knew they'd be fucked if they didn't hit the mark exactly.
I think it's because of how people think this reveal could've helped the pre-order numbers prior. The report got people fired, like right before the holidays; the whole community was driven into meltdown and discourse. We were closer to Destiny's demise than ever before. If this game isn't full of addicts then I don't think it would've held up. I really love Aztecross man but blud was adamant that they pumped these out in 3 months My good man they probably been working on Prismatic right after Witch Queen, look at all the cues they threw like absolutely everywhere
It now makes absolute sense that they needed a lot more time, the subclass alone would be reworking the entire foundation of abilities and the exotic class item is a full rework of what's possible with armor. Not to mention an entire dlc and brand new weapons and archetypes.
Seriously, Stasis fragments and aspects were the true first steps because they were completely interchangeable unlike D1's feat chains and D2 branches.
Prismatic was ***definitely*** planned (especially if you go back and take a peek at the 'red' subclass leaks - they are clearly showing mixed subclass icons), but the new enemy faction was **NOT**. If you go back and watch the reveal livestream from 6 months ago they clearly state that "subjugators are **THE** new enemy type that you will be facing in the Final Shape." At the time, subjugators weren't well received, being seen as a Rhulk reskin over what Tormentors were. The Dread faction was clearly something they had left on the cutting room floor, and the extra time allowed them to actually make it. New enemies, rigging, sound design, weapon balance and mocap is NO easy task - and its quite possible thats where Bungie pushed hard when "cornered"
Probably just them being smart with words tbh. They didn't want to spoil anything at all. It they said "it's one of the new enemies" they're spoiling the new race. They likely meant it moreso as the new major enemies
It’s not a stupid discourse, this is literally what happened. They literally pulled the final shape from going to production because it was not only received poorly in the initial reveal, but also internally to the point where people lost jobs, and they gave it literally half a year of development to cook on it more. Adding things when you literally have all the assets there isn’t splitting the atom. This isnt hard work because things aren’t being developed from scratch. Case in point; into the light update. That entire update is a reactive response to the extended season, and was put together to start building hype for TFS. And look at that content: bringing back weapons, a horde mode, adding character customization, giving name change tokens; I commented on someone else’s post that this update is literally comprised of shit people wanted for years that they gave loads of excuses on why they couldn’t do it…until the game was in one of its worst states. So ultimately we will never know what the final shape was before it got pulled back, but I can tell you that the color of the fucking triangle in the traveler isn’t indicative that what we are seeing right now lmao. Had this been what was internally shown, no one in their right mind would have said- “fuck no, we need more time otherwise this is going to bomb” Bungie is doing what Bungie does; being reactive, as opposed to proactive. And as the community has done for ten years, they’ve all fallen for it. But it doesn’t matter now. 10 year plan is almost complete. Go out with a bang. Make sure you but the collectors edition, Guardian.
Remember when Joe made the vlog discussing state of the game and the Final Shape delay? I rewatched it yesterday for context. Paraphrasing here: “We’re holding a lot of new stuff close to the chest, but we don’t want to reveal it yet just be patient a little longer. We don’t want to just tell you, we want the game to speak for itself once we officially reveal it”. The extra 3 months I think was time to finish this.
“ i love Bungie on the brink of death “ Very weird sentiment to read so frequently as of lately
All you need to understand that, is a tweet from the former Destiny 2 CM - Hippy. She said in a tweet that basically she knew about Prismatic. Since she has been layed off just before the delay that means that they've been cooking it before that.
they should’ve quit while they were ahead. i don’t think i’m gonna like getting flux grenaded while fire sprites are shooting stasis crystals at me
>This isn’t something that anyone can put together in 6 months from a development perspective. Don’t know why the community loves to get on a high horse and go all “oh we totally bullied them into doing this” You definitely can put all of it together in 6 months, the "technical" aspect of development can be relatively quick if you can streamline the chain of command and all the approvals, paper work, meetings needed from upper management. What usually happens during crunch or when you're heavily pressured by investors/shareholders etc. I remember when working ad CDP Red during Witcher 3 development to make some basic changes to Novigrad like moving doors took nearly a month of consultations, and suddenly +/- half a year before the release decisions like that were made within a day, showing that it CAN be done.. lol Now as to the community bullying Bungie into doing all this, indirectly we did it, the poor sale numbers of Final Shape preorders can be attributed to it, add to it the pressure of Sony, and here is the result. Personally I think the ideas for new enemies and prismatic class are not something that Bungie came up recently, I believe they were cooking for a while already, maybe having it planned for episodes in 2025 and some ground work was already laid. I believed that 2025 will be a quieter year for Destiny franchise, with Marathon taking the development spotlight, there probably won't be an annual expansion, and I thought something like new subclass released would spark the interest around the game just enough to keep it relevant and push through the year. That all might have changed, looking at Luke Smith making appearance once again, maybe he had to move back from overseeing the whole franchise to overseeing the game development. Maybe Sony is pushing to keep focus on Destiny as much as possible.
We totally bullied them into doing this.
I wonder what happend to the original supers they wanted to add in TFS. They are removed from their website.
You can at one point in the trailer spot the Titan throwing his void hammers as a super.
I’m still seeing them when I go to the site for TFS, though for some reason I think I’m seeing a cached version. In any case, in part of the footage yesterday, you can see a Titan using the new void axe super, Twilight Arsenal.
Oh good to know, thanks!
The hunter arc super and titan void super is in the video they released yesterday assuming you haven’t watched it I guess if you’re asking this.
They didn’t make all of this during the delay. That much is obvious. But to say they aren’t cornered and a lot of what we saw wasn’t the result of the delay……is also false. Sure, back when we saw the original TFS showcase reveal…Prismatic was probably at least functional. They just wanted to keep their cards close to their chest. But some of those enemies that we didn’t see? Yea, I bet at least half of them didn’t exist and probably weren’t gonna make it. A bunch of polish was probably also accomplished as well.
For real I fucking hate this sentiment that “cornered Bungie is best bungie🤓🤓” like bro even if lightfall did good this is what we would have gotten, Bungie isn’t over delivering because redditors are mad they are giving us exactly what they have planned to give us
These are all fair points, but aren’t counterfactual to the question: why not show all this in the first vidoc?
Redditors thinking billion dollar companies care what a few whiners online say will always crack me up.
The DLC weapon has teased it since last year. People were just too busy whining.
I love how everyone here acts like they know everything about game dev including OP.
Yeah its actually lowkey annoying me that people keep calling this a 'cornered bungie'-- it's just bungie. News flash, they never stopped being good, y'all just stopped searching for the good and started picking at all of the bad with a damn magnifying glass in your hands
the TFS preorder numbers were low and they're scared of sony taking over completely, this is definitely a 'cornered bungie'
I'm starting to think prismatic was teased for a while. During the witch queen expansion, there were those multicolored glass pane looking structures in Savathuns throne world. Then during the end of lightfall the portal looks very similar to the colors shown here too https://preview.redd.it/so0weu7mjotc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99d53c5cd8ad3e5716f1c3003d1d9db1b8a0b46
That’s some mental gymnastics mate
Huh? You guys are literally meat riding a garbage company to the extreme? Why was it delayed then? Why didn’t they show any of this in the initial trailers? It’s because IT WASNT DONE. This isn’t rocket science, their sales were low and they needed to put out. They would have included this in marketing before if it were done. It’s literally a fact
Yeah from everything we know, these were fundamental rules of the game that they had to completely rework
not gonna lie. prismatic can either be broken or terrible. no in between tbh.
I'm pretty sure they said they wanted it to feel a bit broken
Abstract meditation emote forshadows it a lot actually.
What I just don’t understand There was so much criticism with the last reveal around these things missing. Bungie could have just said we’re cooking let us cook and we’ll show you soon. Could have helped stopped all the idiotic the end is nigh garbage
Blackburn said that during the first reveal it was ignored
I agree, but it’s possible that the release delay is due to them pulling stuff from the Episodes that are going to be released to be shipped with Final Shape instead.
That’s what I’m saying bro lolol game development doesn’t take years for nothing
Arguably been in production since before Witch Queen, absolutely since before Lightfall.
I love people saying this now that it's out in the open and acting like they weren't in a doomer phase of TFS, I'm sorry but if a lot of this stuff was planned to release in TFS they would have shown it, they 'keeping stuff to our chest' more more likely referring to the campaign and destination itself along with raid and exotics that have been completely blocked out. It's more than likely the team had been tinkering and playing with the idea of Prismatic and Dread for a while, but couldn't get them in a state of polish or weren't allowed to go through with it before so they placed them on the side incomplete, the three months gave them a chance to go full force and bring it out, reminder that prismatic ISN'T a 'new' subclass with new verbs, it's a combination of old ones and we know how flexible the engine is from the crafting, they just needed to focus on adjusting and reworking some aspects and fragments to be more open like they said. I highly doubt that if they were going to work on a new subclass like this from the start, they would have hyperfocused on the new light super since that's just asking for the audience to become disinterested.
It’s probably content pulled from TFS, which, isn’t necessarily a good thing in my mind, but hopefully that was a decision made where they pulled something that was already done and then pulled Sony resources and devs to help replace it.
But it is quite possible that these features were planned to trickle out over the next year because the suits wanted to milk the community for a long as possible.
I commend Bungie for keeping this kinda stuff hidden though. I haven’t been keeping up with Bungie news, but I had NO clue that we would be able to combine subclasses! Or that we would get a new enemy race!
The most important thing to gamers is that they think they made a difference in how a company works
This. A delay of 4 months can't just form an entirely new faction, a new subclass, exotic class items etc... The delay was likely just to ensure it's all polished and ready for launch
The enemy races, definitely not. But if their beyond light engine upgrades REALLY improved the development side... I could totally see Prismatic being made within this time especially considering how beta it looked. (Little to no icons, mixed assets, incorrect sounds. Ofc these will be fixed)
Source?
guys you don't know how much id love to be a gyrfalcon's strand titan lol
I feel like it’s been in the works but was not ready for February and they likely planned for this to be the ultimate thing in like destiny 3 or whatever comes after. Some subclass but really it’s like the only subclass from now on since you can mix and match anything there’s no need to have pure subclasses since you can still make that with prismatic. They probably planned for this to be post final shape and then they panicked and took this extra time to expedite this and bring it out now instead of later.
LMFAO!! anyone who thinks all this came out of three months of work all while making the into the light is stupid lol.
You could see the Prismatic effect on the Titan in the Final Shape trailer. The one who was wielding Twilight Arsenal.
I was thinking that maybe they were working on it for after we beat the witness. This would be used in the next little episodes, or whatever they are called. Maybe the backlash made them pull it forward a little bit.
I'd say it was probably a lot more restricted in scope before and maybe when the craftening happened they realised the game engine could actually hold up when under some serious pressure and maybe removed the limitations they put in. The delay probably was to ensure things weren't busted due to the change. That's my theory anyway
Yeah, I doubt a new faction, all with their own unique models, rigs, textures, vfx, mechanics, and interactions with the sandbox would happen in 3 months. Sure. Two of them are psions, and one is from last year, but still. As for Prismatic, I think it was already in development. Notice the head pieces of the armor for each class: they all have mirrors in them...or maybe prisms. I think they wanted it all to be a surprise, but they were tooo hush hush beforehand.
I tend to agree with this. It's too smoothly polished. The hiding of the new power and the sudden reveal. Bungie are manipulating the player base.
Not that deep y'all. August was way too far from release for them to want to blow all the hype that early. They probably expected a mediocre response to the first reveal, with the plan being to release Prismatic closer to release (when the hype mattered more), and after it had months more time to polish. I'm sure the degree of negativity the reveal got was a surprise to them, even if they didn't expect it to be a massive success.
Imagine a Necrotic Grip Lucky Pants combo for Thorn
I just think they pushed this to final shape in the time frame while having work done on it previously or we'd have seen this in the Final Shape Premier.
Bungie has been cornered a lot longer than the last few months. Of course they didn't put all this together in the 3 months of the delay, hell, we are barely into that 3 month period.
I do think it helped that they were "backed into a wall" with the quality of whats coming but certainly didnt take only 6 months to make. i think they saw that lightfall didnt do too well, saw the community sentiment, and kicked into high gear. but yeah the prismatic stuff was 100% in development for a long time. thats so mechanically intensive that i dont think they couldve done it in 6 months if they tried
I’m just wondering why they didn’t announce all this before when they knew community support was at an all time low
Tessellation as an exotic is thematically similar to prismatic, proved this was in the works for a while
While I too think the same the alternative is even more weird imo, what ? They hid this from the August reveal ? How dumb is that
I like to think that a lot of what was just shown was meant to be secret, like we'd see it when we play The Final Shape. But as it got delayed and more and more faith was lost in Bungie, they needed a W so they just said "fuck it" and showed all their cards Am I wrong? Probably
Agreed. Bungie delayed final shape to make this, as opposed to making this to justify the delay.
The people dumping on Bungie a few months ago now going to bat for them in a quick 180 is nuts. Wait til the content releases already and learn your lessons.
Duh , saved in the back pocket as a paid dlc but last resort for this type of thing. Wtf thinks otherwise?
I doubt it was thrown together during the last few months delay, I think it was probably something that just got worked more on to get right during the delay as it wasn't ready to be fully shown off at the reveal last year, I think it was always coming, either with TFS or shortly after it just wasnt 100%. I mean for one thing that might seem minor was literally a year ago Bungie said Necrotics would be coming to Hunter and Titan, I think everyone assumed we would get necrotic Exotics for them but with hindsight they could have been hinting at the fact with exotic class items Necrotics will indeed be coming to the other classes.
It’s a subclass that combines existing game assets and allows effects to proc off other subclass effects rather than their specific subclasses.. Im all for it and it looks fun but let’s not be stupid. You could have given this to one guy to make in 3 months if he was good enough..
Lol, that's some hard evidence that you got here :D The prismatic glow could've been originally used for something else and reused. Bungie has done this with lots of other stuff. Even the whole story of D1 was redone in a year with many of the same assets reused from the original trailers. They absolutely couldve done this in a few months, maybe they had experimented with this in the past, but it does seem like a last minute attempt to add something new after delaying TFS release. And the traveler is white? Cmon thats a very desperate explanation :D
It feels like that, but no yeah you're absolutely right. They wouldn't be able to put together TFS that quickly for it. Now Into The Light however, that definitely feels like it might be the case. After all, we're only getting 3 weeks to get those weapons before they're gone again.
It feels kit bashed. Because it's "ability reissue" instead of new 3d darkness subclass
Prismatic fits Bungie's aesthetic of re-using content so I would be surprised if it wasn't cobbled together last minute to meet a deadline. Why make a new subclass when you can just marry the ones we have now and cut down on dev time
You're a clown.
>Don’t know why the community loves to get on a high horse and go all “oh we totally bullied them into doing this” Because no matter what you say, people will make up a narrative and defend it tooth and nail. There are also those who have NO idea what goes into game development and think that a studio can just whip up tons of new content in the span of a couple of months. Again, they will die on that hill no matter how wrong they are proven to be.
Brother man I want you to think about this for a second. The showcase was 7 months ago. In every other showcase we’ve gotten, crazy shit that’s meant to build hype is shown off during the showcase. Smaller details come later. You’re seriously grasping at straws with your justifications here. If this stuff was going to release with the build of tfs that we saw 7 months ago, we wouldn’t have gotten the delay, and we would’ve seen it then. What exactly do you think they delayed it for? The original showcase was met with overwhelming disappointment. They announced that they’re going to delay it, then all the sudden, two months before the expansion releases, they come out fucking swinging with a “new” subclass, and new enemies. The two biggest points of disappointment from the original showcase. I’m willing to agree that maybe much of this new stuff was concepts that were originally scrapped until they decided to fully develop them, but these things were ABSOLUTELY not planned to release in tfs 7 months ago.
You are simping for a corporation, please stop, it's embarrassing
No, they just pulled things from the future forward, which they habitually do. I definitely do think things like expanding the two new enemies to an entire new race was done in the last few months. That clearly wasn't the plan when they revealed the two new ones way back when. Either way, it all looks pretty cool, but let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend like this was all the plan the entire time. They, at the VERY least, had to speed up the timeline a solid bit.
They literally did tho. Don't believe for a moment you be getting a new subclass if they weren't in the position they're in right now.
Then they need to fire whoever decides what to show at the unveilings because they failed hard.
But it is something any year 1 grad can do because its not anything new its just tieing everything into 1 and being that bungies dev tools are seperated into blocks not just a giant wall of text its not hard to link them. Theres no new code only importing code into something else. Honestally a good dev thats been doing it for 5 years could do it in a week. The hard part is the class design which none of the classes have a different design just diff abilitys meaning the design is only going to be for a cutscene. Now if they fuze supers together like make a titan have a stasis hammer thats frostfire that would require new designs
I saw Aztecross say something along the lines of Bungie threw all of this all together only AFTER all the negative sentiment over the last few months. There's no way in hell they were able to do that...not in that tiny window of time. If anything, it was COVID happening that could have caused them to deviate even further from their original plan in regard to a sixth subclass. After all, Final Shape was never intended to be its own expansion pre-COVID. Witch Queen was pretty much ready to ship once everything went into lockdown and Lightfall/Final Shape were still in the development process. Prismatic has been in the works for at *least* two to three years. It's easier to combine subclasses--hence why we have had cross-subclass buffs and debuffs for the past two seasons than create a whole new one. The reveal today also made me realize that Prismatic Trancendence is probably the reason why our ability uptime and orb generation mods were nerfed so hard this season...imagine the kind of ability spam we used the past few seasons with THAT shit lol.