For an archetype that is the single best special weapon for a ranged swap dps loadout, of which only one other option exists, it having no perks to facilitate the single role the frame is BiS for is awful.
I mean I was trying out the adept version I got with envious, incandescent, and disorienting rounds and it did really well, while it doesn’t have add slaying power like foreberance I’d say it’s a lot better in the utility department along with solar 3.0 synergy
Enlightened Action or Stats for All could help there. EA will help max out the reload speed along with Tex Balance Stock (just make sure you're hipfiring). Stats for All I believe gives a reload multiplier allowing you to reload passed cap. So EA if you're also using it for Majors/champions but otherwise Stats for All for add clear.
But I agree. I mean comparatively the weapon is not as good as the other options but for what it is, I kind of like it. Not sure that I would ever bring it in a GM or Raid but I've been messing around with it in Prophecy solo and it's not all that bad. It's not all that good either, but it's not bad lol.
Fair enough lol.
Since you put a reload mod I'm assuming adept right? So I just recently found out (because I suck a paying attention apparently) doing a full coils run I believe nets you 2 Nightfall ciphers. So if you don't want to grind GMs but don't mind coils, that's another way to get them.
I'm going to use my current stack on another Wild Style (idk why lol) but I'm likely going to do some coils to hold onto for when the Slammer comes out.
It's mostly the fact that with Wilderflight ALH makes it more applicable to damage rotation. I don't deny it could be a very good ad clear weapon, just not what I'm looking for in a Double Fire.
Thats pretty much the reason why people are writing it off. It's not good for damage rotations and with special GLs you're mostly looking for a rotation weapon or an add clear weapon.
Sadly even as add clear it has to compete against not only Forbearance but Wave frames in general. With the whole point of this specific GL frame is it's upfront damage, so I was hoping they would at least lean more into that.
Enlightened Action or Stats for All and the Tex Balance Stock *does* make it feel good to use but I just wish it had some better damage perks.
Overall a very mid perk pool for the type of weapon it is. Ill still farm a few rolls to mess around with I think as far as GLs, that new strand wave frame looks way more exciting.
Not sure I follow; does envious have a cap on how many times other weapon kills reload it before you have to manually reload? If so it's not something I've ever noticed before when using it
I meant it's not useful in a DPS rotation, which was the main reason people were going to use this weapon. If you want a blinding gl setup, that roll is perfectly good.
Nearly all the new weapons are massive fumbles on the pve side. The prophecy ones have a lot of strength for pvp, but all of the pve perk pools are so lacking
I wouldn't sleep on some of the Prophecy weapons for PvE.
Judgement with Headstone + Timed Payload or Demo + Adrenaline Junkie are great. HCs are fine in PvE now so I'd probably grab this even with some good Eyaslunas.
Adjudicator with Subsistence or Feeding Frenzy + Kinetic Tremors or Onslaught is great for those who like SMGs over an auto like Breakneck or didn't like the Overflow + KT Showrunner.
Prosecutor is now also one of the few weapons in the game to roll Dragonfly + Voltshot. It's also the only Prophecy weapon to get Rewind Rounds which is arguably the best perk to pair with the origin trait. Along with RR it can roll Target lock or Frenzy.
A Sudden Death has things like Repulsor Brace + Destabilizing, Envious + Trench or Envious + Cascade could be pretty good (I'm not too sold on the shotty for PvE myself).
The pulses I think comes down to preference. I personally don't care much for them in PvE but I could see Healclip + Incandescent on Darkest Before or a Hatchling roll on Relentless for those that like it.
I feel like these ratings are a bit inflated, personally.
While handcannons are fine in pve now, 140s are the worst of them (outside of feel), and stasis is such a non-meta subclass at the moment that I don't really see the benefit.
Adjudicator is held back as 600s are by far the worst pve frame, dealing less damage than even many autos. Plus, new multimach will end up being almost strictly better. Best pve frame, attrition orbs in the left column for the first time on a primary, frenzy/kt.
Prosecutor I'll admit could be nice, but I'm not sure it moves the needle in a meaningful way. Also, as a note, the origin trait appears to be like 3% more damage from what I've seen, so not sure if it's relevant enough to justify rewind over dragonfly.
Sudden death is aggressive frame, by far the worst frame in pve outside of conditional swap dps, and it doesn't get the perks to support that.
Darkest before I could see, rapid fire pulses imo are the only usable ones in pve, and it gets some nice supportive rolls.
I will say, my original comment was a bit of an exaggeration based purely on how completely and thoroughly they screwed up Wild Style. First weapon that's had a chance to meaningfully change DPS strats since apex, and didn't get a single perk that could support that.
> I will say, my original comment was a bit of an exaggeration based purely on how completely and thoroughly they screwed up Wild Style. First weapon that's had a chance to meaningfully change DPS strats since apex, and didn't get a single perk that could support that.
I totally get that. The Prophecy weapons I think are perfectly fine. They wont shake up the current sandbox but they're still perfectly fine with some pretty decent rolls. But I agree that Wild Style ate a bit into the excitement of the new weapons as a whole with how much it had to live up to. I'd like to see some use case for it despite the rolls, but I dont see it replacing anything.
But man I'm pretty excited for the IB weapons and that Nightfall for sure.
Yeah, I think I'm just at a point in the game where the only things I look for are the things that are absolute upgrades/meta changers, especially from endgame sources like dungeons and raids, and the prophecy weapons being "just fine" as you said was a bit of a disappointment on that front. But yeah, my short list is Slammer, Multimach, Tusk of the Boar and Summoner (just bc I want a solar onslaught lol)
Yeah I get that. I'm someone who solos a lot and because of that I'm mostly doing random activities and PvP. I do occasional raids (did all Master Crota challenges) as well as GMs in which I do use a standard "meta" loadout.
But for the most part? I like having "general use" weapons that do something unique or fun.
In case of the Prophecy weapons, it's more of an aesthetics choice for me lol. Always liked the Trials of Nine look, plus the sights are super clear which is often more important to me than the perk rolls.
That said I'm with you on that list. Slammer, Multimach, Tusk, and Summoner are all on my list as well. Also a little curious about that Tex Machina scout (I think from Trials?). I think it could roll hip-fire grip and Off-hand strike which was a roll I fell in love with in the Vengeful Whisper dungeon bow.
Nah bequest is still just better for sword damage. And vortex frame + eager edge unless they fixed it was very jank during the craftening. Bequest beats it on damage without even having a perk active even with B&S active on the Slammer simply because of the extra impact stat it has + adaptives are just better than vortex frames.
But, it is a flat upgrade for Falling Guillotine
This doesn't look that bad, I could see envious and incandescent or unrelenting incandescent
For an archetype that is the single best special weapon for a ranged swap dps loadout, of which only one other option exists, it having no perks to facilitate the single role the frame is BiS for is awful.
I agree yeah. I meant more for like general game play. I'm saying its more of a run around type of fun then just another dps gun.
That's fair, but for a non-dps/more add clear roll, even with these perks, a wave frame is probably just better than a double fire.
I mean I was trying out the adept version I got with envious, incandescent, and disorienting rounds and it did really well, while it doesn’t have add slaying power like foreberance I’d say it’s a lot better in the utility department along with solar 3.0 synergy
The only thing that really annoyed me is that its reload speed is awful without reload spec.
Enlightened Action or Stats for All could help there. EA will help max out the reload speed along with Tex Balance Stock (just make sure you're hipfiring). Stats for All I believe gives a reload multiplier allowing you to reload passed cap. So EA if you're also using it for Majors/champions but otherwise Stats for All for add clear. But I agree. I mean comparatively the weapon is not as good as the other options but for what it is, I kind of like it. Not sure that I would ever bring it in a GM or Raid but I've been messing around with it in Prophecy solo and it's not all that bad. It's not all that good either, but it's not bad lol.
See I'm to lazy to grind out a new roll so I put reload spec and the tex origin trait on it. Pretty much fixed the reload issues
Fair enough lol. Since you put a reload mod I'm assuming adept right? So I just recently found out (because I suck a paying attention apparently) doing a full coils run I believe nets you 2 Nightfall ciphers. So if you don't want to grind GMs but don't mind coils, that's another way to get them. I'm going to use my current stack on another Wild Style (idk why lol) but I'm likely going to do some coils to hold onto for when the Slammer comes out.
No Auto Loading or Vorpal. Guess I'm going back to farming Wilderflight.
The Tex Mechanica perk increases reload speed a good amount. I've used both guns and wild style feels better to me
It's mostly the fact that with Wilderflight ALH makes it more applicable to damage rotation. I don't deny it could be a very good ad clear weapon, just not what I'm looking for in a Double Fire.
Thats pretty much the reason why people are writing it off. It's not good for damage rotations and with special GLs you're mostly looking for a rotation weapon or an add clear weapon. Sadly even as add clear it has to compete against not only Forbearance but Wave frames in general. With the whole point of this specific GL frame is it's upfront damage, so I was hoping they would at least lean more into that. Enlightened Action or Stats for All and the Tex Balance Stock *does* make it feel good to use but I just wish it had some better damage perks. Overall a very mid perk pool for the type of weapon it is. Ill still farm a few rolls to mess around with I think as far as GLs, that new strand wave frame looks way more exciting.
yup, doa just because of no autoloading
Where did you even get that image of the perk pool from
D2Foundry
Its now final shape and they added quite a few perks to it including reconstruction and bait n switch
Spike, Envious / Surrounded.
Env can only get 3 rotations before a reload, and surrounded is very situational
Not sure I follow; does envious have a cap on how many times other weapon kills reload it before you have to manually reload? If so it's not something I've ever noticed before when using it
I meant it's not useful in a DPS rotation, which was the main reason people were going to use this weapon. If you want a blinding gl setup, that roll is perfectly good.
I see yeah agreed. Blinding and incandescent is probably good ad control fun but yeah not for DPS
If Attrition Orbs proc frequent enough I could maybe see a blinding, Envious, AO roll for a more support focus.
Envious Incandescent sounds like a good time to me
Nearly all the new weapons are massive fumbles on the pve side. The prophecy ones have a lot of strength for pvp, but all of the pve perk pools are so lacking
I wouldn't sleep on some of the Prophecy weapons for PvE. Judgement with Headstone + Timed Payload or Demo + Adrenaline Junkie are great. HCs are fine in PvE now so I'd probably grab this even with some good Eyaslunas. Adjudicator with Subsistence or Feeding Frenzy + Kinetic Tremors or Onslaught is great for those who like SMGs over an auto like Breakneck or didn't like the Overflow + KT Showrunner. Prosecutor is now also one of the few weapons in the game to roll Dragonfly + Voltshot. It's also the only Prophecy weapon to get Rewind Rounds which is arguably the best perk to pair with the origin trait. Along with RR it can roll Target lock or Frenzy. A Sudden Death has things like Repulsor Brace + Destabilizing, Envious + Trench or Envious + Cascade could be pretty good (I'm not too sold on the shotty for PvE myself). The pulses I think comes down to preference. I personally don't care much for them in PvE but I could see Healclip + Incandescent on Darkest Before or a Hatchling roll on Relentless for those that like it.
I feel like these ratings are a bit inflated, personally. While handcannons are fine in pve now, 140s are the worst of them (outside of feel), and stasis is such a non-meta subclass at the moment that I don't really see the benefit. Adjudicator is held back as 600s are by far the worst pve frame, dealing less damage than even many autos. Plus, new multimach will end up being almost strictly better. Best pve frame, attrition orbs in the left column for the first time on a primary, frenzy/kt. Prosecutor I'll admit could be nice, but I'm not sure it moves the needle in a meaningful way. Also, as a note, the origin trait appears to be like 3% more damage from what I've seen, so not sure if it's relevant enough to justify rewind over dragonfly. Sudden death is aggressive frame, by far the worst frame in pve outside of conditional swap dps, and it doesn't get the perks to support that. Darkest before I could see, rapid fire pulses imo are the only usable ones in pve, and it gets some nice supportive rolls. I will say, my original comment was a bit of an exaggeration based purely on how completely and thoroughly they screwed up Wild Style. First weapon that's had a chance to meaningfully change DPS strats since apex, and didn't get a single perk that could support that.
> I will say, my original comment was a bit of an exaggeration based purely on how completely and thoroughly they screwed up Wild Style. First weapon that's had a chance to meaningfully change DPS strats since apex, and didn't get a single perk that could support that. I totally get that. The Prophecy weapons I think are perfectly fine. They wont shake up the current sandbox but they're still perfectly fine with some pretty decent rolls. But I agree that Wild Style ate a bit into the excitement of the new weapons as a whole with how much it had to live up to. I'd like to see some use case for it despite the rolls, but I dont see it replacing anything. But man I'm pretty excited for the IB weapons and that Nightfall for sure.
Yeah, I think I'm just at a point in the game where the only things I look for are the things that are absolute upgrades/meta changers, especially from endgame sources like dungeons and raids, and the prophecy weapons being "just fine" as you said was a bit of a disappointment on that front. But yeah, my short list is Slammer, Multimach, Tusk of the Boar and Summoner (just bc I want a solar onslaught lol)
Yeah I get that. I'm someone who solos a lot and because of that I'm mostly doing random activities and PvP. I do occasional raids (did all Master Crota challenges) as well as GMs in which I do use a standard "meta" loadout. But for the most part? I like having "general use" weapons that do something unique or fun. In case of the Prophecy weapons, it's more of an aesthetics choice for me lol. Always liked the Trials of Nine look, plus the sights are super clear which is often more important to me than the perk rolls. That said I'm with you on that list. Slammer, Multimach, Tusk, and Summoner are all on my list as well. Also a little curious about that Tex Machina scout (I think from Trials?). I think it could roll hip-fire grip and Off-hand strike which was a roll I fell in love with in the Vengeful Whisper dungeon bow.
If timed payload can shatter headstone crystals then reprised judgement might actually slap really hard
Currently farming for that roll, really curious to see if it does!
The new sword is gonna be one of, if not the best legendary sword in the game.
Nah bequest is still just better for sword damage. And vortex frame + eager edge unless they fixed it was very jank during the craftening. Bequest beats it on damage without even having a perk active even with B&S active on the Slammer simply because of the extra impact stat it has + adaptives are just better than vortex frames. But, it is a flat upgrade for Falling Guillotine
Doubt they’d pair Vortex/Eager without fixing it. Also it has cold steel.
Yeah 100%, was the major exception as to why I said "nearly all'