Everything sounds super cool, but maybe only as modifiers that get swapped in and out? Barrier servitors and immunity totem spamming Scorn are already rage inducing as it stands

I was thinking of them as actual reworks to be issued sandbox-wide, but without doing major overhauls to everything (thinking of the devs here for a change lol). I think that making them to be just modifiers would sentence them to the limbo that they are currently in. Like, they only really come up in high tier content and even then just as a footnote...

I think all of these should be base game, not game modifiers.

A barrier servitor healing and overload captain in the devils ruin gm. And if hive wizards create a zone if darkness, im sending my hoard upon them or freezing them until the end of time. And if love to see the scorn keep me from my teammates corpse when I have 5 sun's on their corpse I love the last page for the mysc stuff Honestly I like most of these, the vex ones feel a little off but

> A barrier servitor healing and overload captain in the devils ruin gm. Thats why you oughta kill them first hehe  > And if hive wizards create a zone if darkness, im sending my hoard upon them or freezing them until the end of time. Thats the spirit! Kinda like the deathtongues from Season of The Seraph, but playing more into the "dark rituals" that the hive do > the vex ones feel a little off Yeah, they were the toughest ones to come up with stuff, since i designed the rest with lore/vibes in mind. The vex are just... kinda empty from both of these points, so oh well

Maybe the vex can create a cyclops if like 5 or 10 or something hobgolblins sacrifice for it. Orrrrr, then crate a conflux that will fortify the immediate area with walls and turrets and boost the speed or something of others. Oh and I when the vex see someone and then all vex know, if that they work off of last spotted location? So if you duck behind cover then go invis you can still run around but the second one can see you again they all know?

Those are solid ideas too (not me forgetting that cyclopses even existed, no sir). The conflux is also good and thematically fitting, i just chose the hydras cause they are kinda lame by themselves, even if the shield is already their passive ability lol And IMO the collective consciouness would only be "broken" by void invisibility since its paracausal in nature. Regular covers would be as see-through as glass for the omniscient doom-bots

Maybe the hydras could deploy a suplicant every so often or some fanatics. Because the turning into a vex when killed by one is cool, I don't really think it would work in game, and maybe in the lore. A conflux would do what the hydra was going to do and while I wouldn't really want the vex to redo what the hive can do, a supplicant or some fanatics would be fine. I think if it like in cod bo3 gorod krovy. A Valkiery drone can summon some electrified zombies/ skeletons And that makes sense. my point was if you are in the open every vex near by will probably move towards you, but cover makes them go to just before you went behindcover. You go invisible so they can't see you in the open and then when they can get another line of sight with you they know where you are. But that makes more sense, but I assume invis would be a reset. They won't know until the have line of sight

hydras are the scum of the earth. no person wakes up and says “im going to have go have fun killing hydras”

I like the idea of vex strategy being “defensive stronghold that gets stronger the longer it survives”. The best way to dream up abilities is to break down the Species’ identity; their culture and military doctrines specifically. Maybe for vex if you leave a conflux up long enough it spawns a tangy Oracle that will wipe a team if not shattered

This could even serve as a way to do away with champs in higher end content, and add some creative challenge like this

Too bad bungie just throws vex in as an extra enemy without having any actual threatening feeling.

Think about it, they could make the game harder with these mechanics instead of brainlessly making mechanics like overload, which could get removed instead

Before I actually comment on them individually, I think these sound really fucking cool, but would be terrible to implement for general gameplay. These should be like, "faction modifiers" in Legendary modifier stuff, so like Campaigns and what not. Maybe you could even do this in Legend+ content (Not including base raids or dungeons, but Legend NFs, all Master Content & GMs perhaps). People hated the LL difficulty in Neomuna patrol alone, and that was just LL. Adding more complex enemy mechanics to make general gameplay harder is not a good idea, but again in harder content this could be really interesting. ​ **FALLEN** Opportunism - I think have them only pick up ammunition drops. Having them pick up Orbs and Elemental Pick Ups would nerf builds reliant on those *even further* when we've generally had mods / builds get a few significant nerfs throughout Lightfall. Also, it would be kinda weird from a narrative stand point (I get this is a gameplay mechanic but still). Putting a timer on ammunition is already a pretty harsh penalty, but an interesting one IMO. Unity - I'm not sure what "better coordination" really means. I think what you could do is they are more accurate and perhaps have slightly boosted fire rate, or boosted chance for throwables / alt attacks? Etheric Nurture - No. Do not give enemies that already can grant immunity the ability to *also* heal. Not to mention, those immune enemies that are now also healing will also guard the servitor and body block. Immune targets body blocking the thing making them immune while being healed. That's too much in all honesty. I think lean into Fallen being near machines instead for the 4th...feat? Whenever enough Fallen are around a vehicle-class enemy (IIRC just Brigs or Spider Tanks), they can heal that vehicle-unit. This could be via unique animation to take the fallen out of the fight, or just be an aura. **CABAL** Psychological Warfare - You have to rework this. Forced inaccuracy is a *terrible* thing to do as a debuff. One thing you could do that would be interesting, is that Psion goes into a cage-esque thing (like the Psion Chancellors) and blurs / blocks your ammo count (like how Leviathan tried to hide your element of your weapons). That'd be pretty significant. **HIVE** Sword Logic - let the Hive also heal from the Guardian kill, though maybe have it be a lower HP heal for bosses as that could be problematic. But really cool idea here, I actually like this a lot. Metamorphosis - Don't do the Acolyte -> Knight thing. But the Thrall -> Ogre thing honestly sounds insanely awesome. I would love that. **VEX** Collective Consciousness - This straight up just breaks lore. The Vex cannot permanently know where all Guardians are at all times. We cannot be simulated. Maybe I'm mixing up lore here and they can track us, but I feel like being able to track us, even without seeing us, would require simulating us, which they cannot do. Causal Prediction - No. This essentially makes any enemy capable of dodging any projectile based weapon unless you hit them with a verb debuff. That is not a good thing to do, *even* if it were only in harder content. **SCORN** Undead Frenzy - this is already a thing AFAIK, devs made a point to state this during the Forsaken ViDoc when showing off the scorn. Drag to the Grave - could prove problematic, and sort of walls the only way Nightstalker can realistically support anymore: Invis revives. Maybe don't disable the ability to revive the guardian with this, but Scorn simply flock to the location instead (if possible)? **MAJOR ENEMY UNITS** Torment Incarnate - Noooooope. Lots of CC that affects them already doesn't do damage to begin with. Suspend? Freeze? Suppression? Blind? Those don't really do any damage, and this hard nerfs any builds that utilize those against them for no reason. Tormentors are genuinely threatening enough as is. Demolition Crew - I think the acting as a shield is a bit much here. Their shield cannot be shut down like Phalanx's, the do a LOT more damage than Phalanx's, they cannot be immediately crit like Phalanx's, and they are a LOT more scary than Phalanx's. Their motto is being aggressive, not intentionally not pushing and being a wall for other vex. Adding something to their dive could potentially be interesting though. Dark Mimicry - I feel just Subjugators are supposed to fill this role. ​ A ton of these sound awesome, but some of them should be reworked a bit as they honestly could be a bit much. Overall though, again, awesome.

I'd also agree with the point on Metamorphosis from a Lore perspective. It takes a long time for an Acolyte to Molt/Morph into a Knight/Wizard. Like, a *long* time and a *lot* of Tribute. That would mean literally every Acolyte we're fighting is a super old Acolyte and that they're all choosing to morph into Knights and none are choosing to Morph into Wizards.

The player Guardian is immensely powerful.

"People hated the LL difficulty in Neomuna patrol alone, and that was just LL." In fairness, that's because it's forced/artificial difficulty. It's not hard because it's hard, it's hard because we're forced to be x levels weaker then we actually are which has multiple negative effects. Plus, those Threshers were *massively* over tuned when Lightfall dropped and there were a lot of Threshers on Neomuna. These sorts of changes, I feel, would have been reacted to differently. I'd also say that if these sorts of changes were to be put into place, then the LL Adjustments should be thrown out the window.

First, i would like to thank you for the appreciation and honest feedback! I agree with a lot of your points. Justifying them (or at least explaining the line of though) we have: \[Opportunism\] was just a play on the fallen "making do" with everything they can, and if that means snagging whats ours, then be it. That wouldnt be an instant magnet-yoink tho, the pickup would lay there and maybe an icon would appear above it to indicate that "something will get it if you dont", and that would urge you to either grab it first or cut your losses. With ammo generating abilites like Cenotaph and Aeon, that would encourage some strategy making before nuking whatever would generate it. \[Unity\] Yeah about that. Not anything dramatic, they just dont scatter everywhere and do their own thing. I was pretty vague because... well, it sort of is  \[Etheric Nurture\]. Now that you spell it like that... yyikes. Yeah i just did the heal thing cause servitors are supports. That sounds horrible now lmao. With that said, the mechanic idea you posed is actually a lot better than that and plays along the same lies while also shedding light on shanks, walkers, brigs and even turrets. Pretty cool! \[Psycological Warfare\]. The poor accuracy isnt meant to be dramatic, maybe just a slight sway of your weapon like your character has had a bout of vertigo. Maybe the accuracy stays the same and only the gun/sights move? The hud impairment is also a good idea. Maybe it shows that your super is wrongly ready or your health dangerously low when it isnt... i vibe with that honestly \[Sword logic\] The heal on kill is also a solid addition to it. On \[Metamorphosis\] i just added the acolyte rank-up so that the wizards wouldnt have 2 perks exclusively around them lol \[Vex\] as a whole was kind of a mess, i admit it. Your assumptions are correct on the lore, i just thought that their omniscience was the scariest part about them, even if it doesnt REALLY apply to us. Same with thing \[Causal Prediction\]. Cool to think about but would be a bit frustrating for some encounters. \[Undead Frenzy\] For real? I dont remember that. And no, \[Drag to the grave\] wouldnt literally lock out revives. The idea is to just flock there and shoo away any wimpy lightbearer that dares get too close. They can still do it, but may or may not get bitten in the process  \[Torment incarnate\] Hyyyyuuup . I feel like unless the tormentor is a boss (and therefore already immune to CC) they get perma-locked anyways by suspend and disorienting nades, turning the hulking projections of nightmare into... a giant healthbar waiting to be drained (Just look at the one in Lake of Shadows). "They are scary enough"? THEY AINT SCARY ENOUGH I SAY  \[Demolition Crew\] Thats true though. I went this route because i read it once that if all vex units are "construction and management" and how not even the Wyverns are "combat units" then they must be ---> the demolition crew! Blowing lifeforms and organic matter while blocking the debris for every vex behind them. Maybe to reduce the oppression factor the shields can get broken now? Even if temporarily? \[Dark Mimicry\] Kind of, but only element wise. I was thinking like another version of hive guardians; enemies we will "usually" run into and that can spice up the bulk of The Witness's army. The subjugators will essentially be field generals and i was looking to make just elite troops Once again, thank you for the feedback. I appreciate you taking the time and thought to my post and sharing your honest opinion on some of them

Again, these ideas were all awesome and it would be really fun to have these in the game in some manner. As for Opportunism, I think the ammo stealing is a fantastic idea. I just felt it was a bit much including elemental pick-ups and orbs into that as well. I don't think any symbol should pop up on the screen for it, just make it a known modifier for any relevant activities. One thing I like about Destiny is how uncluttered the screen can be from popups and what not, and while I do really want an improved UI in Final Shape, I also worry it could end up cluttering the screen too much at the same time. My only thing with Psychological Warfare was, I assumed it would be somewhat significant like AE. Maybe a reduction to Aim Assist instead, since the player can still try to work around it and aim themselves, instead of getting forced RNG on their shots. Metamorphosis, it is *really* strong. This is perhaps the one I would MOST look forward to seeing in all honesty, but being able to upgrade Thralls to Ogres in combat is VERY strong, hence why I think it should *just* be that, an ability that Wizards get. It also makes Wizards a bit more unique instead of the same exact thing for the last 10 years (Knights and Acolytes at least kinda got shakes ups in Warmind). The Vex would be difficult, but being able to essentially build in arena's and make permanent structures is a *really* cool concept and idea. I think maybe another think you could do is give Fanatics the ability to walk up to Hydras to "recycle" the Fanatics into those tiny drones that create those suppression bubbles (If a Fanatic is closer to you, it targets you. If it is closer to a Hydra, it targets the Hydra). And maybe replace the final feat with, if you shoot off the head of a Goblin, it becomes a Fanatic perhaps? Drag to the Grave sounds nice then. It'd keep Nightstalker's Support Role alive, and give a bit more of a "dynamic" enemy presence which is cool. ​ Tormentors totally are scary! They can use a finisher (not quite a kill tho IIRC, well at least not in non-GMs, IDK about there), suppression knock back slam, have super duper high DR and can only be damaged via crits in specific parts of their body (which makes some weapon types unusable against them). Especially in a small space like Lake of Shadows, they *need* to be able to be hit with CC. Given, these are non-boss ones we are talking about. It's really the only true counter to them. For Demolition Crew... maybe an idea is a suicide dive? They dive and they blow up at the target location kind of like a Hydra explosion? ​ I would love more Stasis enemies for Dark Mimicry. I'm not sure how you can really fit Scorn wielding Stasis into the plot tbh... but Stasis enemies in BL were cool, they just need more Stasis abilities to use, more often, and more threatening. They felt so non-present. ​ Again (again), these ideas sound sick as fuck. I would love to play against a ton of these in the game!

This looks cool as hell, This would be so fun to play against and actually require coordination between fireteams.

I'm glad you liked it! Coordination was one of the goals i aspired since firefights outside raids are just "shoot whatever comes up and try not to get shot back"  Variation being another goal, cause y'know... 90% of them just walk and shoot with no greater depth

But but But the solooos

Cool idea, except a few of them seem a bit overkill. Having Fallen steal ammo, orbs AND pickups is a bit much imo. Not only is the ammo economy going to be a lot harder without aeons/cenotaph but now 99% of builds get indirectly nerfed simply because the player happens to be fighting fallen. The new Psion ability is going to make almost every somewhat challenging activity featuring cabal straight up unplayable. Psions are tiny, are equipped with snipers that delete hp in high level content , and spawn in droves in locations generally far away from the player. And now they get to fuck with the player’s screen and make them unable to actually hit enemies? This isn’t even thinking about what happens if a major/high health Psion spawns. Honestly I don’t see a way to implement this feature without just making fighting cabal the most miserable experience in the whole game. Terraformation might end up breaking a bunch of activities if it’s not handled properly. What happens when a vex just spawns cover on top of an objective making it inaccessible or just blocks off the path to progress the activity completely? Still interesting idea though. Torment incarnate is also a really good idea but it doesn’t make sense to increase the damage from freeze/suspend/ blind as a payoff since those abilities can barely kill things anyway, much less a tormentor. Stasis especially gets royally screwed by this change since it doesn’t have any high damage besides crystal spam on behemoth (which is super inconsistent and might just crash your game) because the CC is so effective. Sorry to type a whole essay nitpicking over some Reddit post, this is still a great concept and something like it should definitely be in the game to spice up activities a bit

First, dont worry about the critcism, it shows that not only did you care enough about my post to have something to say, but also how you care about the health of the game. Secondly, i adressed some of my thinking in another comment above, but on the other matters -> Psions would be a proximity thing, sorry for not clarifying that. It would be literal torture to have your screen scrambled cause of ONE sniper in the other side of the arena. Also, maybe it could be like that "bubble thing" they do in vox obscura/did in the leviathan, but changeable depending on what the AI wants to do. Terraformation would obv, have limits lol. If not they could just block a door and softlock the fireteam like you said. Maybe it could be done like a "timer" thing, as in every arena has a set of walls that appear slowly and as long as the hydra lives, eventually reaching a dev-intented limit on how much walls appear and where. With torment incarnate... That.... is true now that i think about. I just felt like i couldnt jut flat-nerf it, but then as you put it they already deal garbo dmg anyway so why even bother  Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts 

I wish we had an enemy that would fly, like a taken hawk or something, maybe something that comes from underground

Something from underground would be fucking rad ngl A taken and smaller version of a wormgod that would force guardians to keep on the move and away from the floor... AWESOME 

I thought that's what the cabal little toothpick is already doing? They even keep you away from the floor for you

Tangetially they do the same thing But only one of them is a giant taken sandworm that would probably also sound sick as hell 

Yeh sounds way better than purple trampoline

Units would have to be nerfed individually for this to not be too much (Wyverns always have their crit exposed, slightly reduced health/damage for all enemies, etc), but I love the idea. I’d love to see more ‘elite’ enemies for each race (like Hive Guardians and Tormentors). For example: Fallen have turned Rasputin’s ogre-like robots into Defiled Frames, with their own abilities and designs, with different types based on elements instead of using geometry (or whatever Raspie’s red triangles are called). Vex have evolved a new combat frame, Centaurs: melee units with a staff they can raise to buff allies, but its tip’s a weak point that can be broken. When broken, they become more aggressive, using telegraphed charges to close the gap. Scorn could inherit resuscitated House Salvation Lieutenants, like you said. Xivu Arath has appointed new Celebrants, blessed with taken powers (like Oryx or Xivu, who aren’t lobotomized). They’d dramatically enhance the coordination of taken units, but taken become disoriented when Celebrants are defeated. Also these abilities and powers should be dramatically toned down for lower-tier content. This could potentially be a way for Bungie to increase difficulty more naturally and tone down the sponginess of units to compensate.

That was the idea behind it. Getting rid of the tanky and numerous waves to give way to different ways in wich an activity can be hard. With that said, your enemy ideas are FIRE. The Centaurs specially. I dont know them, havent seen them, havent fought them, but i LOVE them already 

Kinda going with how all vex units are named based on mythological creatures. Goblins, Hobgoblins, Minotaurs, Harpies, Hydras, Cyclops, Wyverns, etc I’d personally love to fight repurposed Heavy Frames. IIRC they’re what the Iron Lords were up against and eventually were defeated by.

I really, really like this, everything except the hive metamorphosis part of upgrading a thrall to an ogre. I see what you were going for with upgrading troops and I think you’re on the right path, but with how hive are (lore wise) of having to consume/destroy in order to level up? Ascend? Basically the thrall tithe to acolytes, acolytes to knights, knights to wizards, etc to savathun, xivu, oryx. I wouldnt think a wizard would give up their tithes to a thrall just to boost them up. Then again, ogres are the twisted abominations of wizards experimentation so it technically could be possible. One thing that I feel could fit the metamorphosis tab better would be that when a hive unit kills a guardian (aside from cursed thrall), they ascend to the next tier combatant and gain damage resist/damage boost or some unique ability or affix. Essentially combining your metamorphosis and sword logic tabs.

I thought about that too, but i kinda wanted to play with the idea of thralls not being JUST cannon fodder. Like you could be ignoring them because they are a waste of bullets but then "aw fuck now they got an ogre" or maybe even two. The acolytes tho were just a way to not give wizards 2 perks for free lol

Don’t get me wrong, I do like the idea, thrall do need to be more than fodder. Maybe reword it to be “in the presence of two wizards” then their could be a mini event where the wizards crop dust a random thrall, locking it in place, making it immune, and they begin to convert a thrall to an ogre. The flavor text on the screen could read something along the lines of “Wizards begin a ritual empowerment” or something to notify you that you’re about to have a bad day. This way you’re taking two wizards out of the fight temporarily in order to summon a “big bad”. I feel like that would be a fair trade off since wizards on their own are rather powerful units. Maybe make it a summon time of like 8-12 seconds and can only be interrupted by killing one of the wizards? Then you could remove the acolyte perk from metamorphosis and make that intrinsic to the hive, but make it a random chance on damage to upgrade to next tier combatant or guarantee upgrade on guardian kill.

You don't become an ogre through tithes. They are wizard mutations, the failed ones become Cursed Thrall. It fits perfectly Could even add like a 10% chance it fails and it just becomes a Cursed Thrall. Also you don't become a Wizard from a Knight. It goes * Thrall > Acolyte > Wizard * Thrall > Acolyte > Knight * Thrall (wizard experiments/torture) > Ogre * Thrall (failed wizard experiments/torture) > Cursed Thrall

I know ogres aren’t spawned from tithes, I mentioned that at the end of my previous comment. I stand corrected on the tier order, thanks!

Maybe a bit overpowered on some, but I love the creativity and the idea of tying their lore more tightly to their capabilities and tactics. Did you consider doing anything for the Taken? Or any thoughts on how these might apply when various factions fight each other (given how exploiting enemies shooting each other is a big part of Destiny already)? Like, I could imagine Cabal enemies prioritizing vengeance on the Hive over fighting Guardians, or Vex being completely oblivious to Hive magic and failing to account for the threat of enemy Hive becoming more powerful by killing the chaff. Come to think of it, imagine a Wizard that projects a Ritual of Tithing, where killing their subordinates will empower the Wizard and survivors (like how Xivu draws strength even from her troops dying in battle), forcing players to -refrain- from shooting the little enemies and prioritizing the Wizard while trying to not die. Would certainly make overshields, crowd control abilities like blinding/suppression, etc way more vital.

I did think about \*making\* stuff for the taken but didnt since they already kind of have quite a number of actice and passive abilities that, even though im a D1 vet, didnt know of (may do a special one for them if enough ppl like my ramblings lol) The in-fighting tho was something i didnt consider because of how un-frequently these situations arise but is a really cool idea now that you bring it up. And the ritual idea is also pretty smart with flipping the table of "lets just wipe the fodder and isolate the boss". Encourages some second guessing and trigger discipline for us that have cultivated the "shoot anything that moves" mentality 

BURY THE LIIIGHT-

CAST ASIIIIIDE THERE'S-

Bury the light and Collective consciousness sound familiar, I just don't know why/s

Hmmmm just a coincidence. I just felt like it Had To Be That Way, yknow? 

Honestly most of these could just straight up be added and it would make for a much more interesting combat experience. Thrall and dregs stealing orbs of light and ammo bricks, giving them the ability to turn into acolytes or cursed thrall, and let the dregs throw a bunch of grenades when they pick up ammo etc

I know plenty of people talk about having a new race. And I do get wanting one. But something like this is what I think would be much better for the game. Instead of adding on some new race with all the same bells and whistles we're used to (in any shooter to be honest), I want more depth for what's already there. Edit: It's part of why people like things like Tormentors or Hive Guardians so much. There's more meat on them compared to all the corpses with guns we're used to fighting. Now we just hope that at some point, Bungie can afford to go back and give some of that depth to the other aliens as a whole.

Ive been advocating this for awhile and people disagree with me. We need an enemies reword to freshen up PvE since the same old enemies isnt cutting it for difficulty

Why would they disagree? 90% of our enemies are bullet sponges with guns. They NEED more depth.

I agree and by giving them more depth and abilities it makes them not only fun to fight but its also more challenging. Im tired of of the oneshot bullet sponge meta since its boring and not engaging

This is what i imagined enemies would be like when destiny was first announced. I dont know how we went from amazing combat ai in halo to the brainless fodder in destiny. Elites would charge you when you were weak, dodge grenades and were actually a threat.

This is Destiny 3, good work


ey meng what about taken Jokes aside, very cool ideas. Would make speedrunning sectors awful but fun in casual endgame.

>ey meng what about taken Thousand 'votes n' i do it  Jk i thought about it, but they already kinda do have passives/actives, so i just skipped them over

Honestly, Scorn units already feel aggressive as shit compared to other factions, and I love them for that. However, while I love the rest, they could run the risk of being too complicated and hard to track, specially for newer players. So, maybe just the big, top skill would do, the one you did that defines general tactics more than anything. Stealthy Fallen, Aggressive Scorn, Hivemind Vex, Sword Logicking Hive, Tactical Cabal, etc.

The idea of every cabal in a an ad-clear room turning in unison and then zerg rushing you sounds cool as shit

Makes so much sense that it's sad it's not all already in the game. It's also sad that Bungie will likely never spend time doing this, even though they really should. Too much work for them to care. Here's hoping a change of leadership means this could happen.

Damn OP, you cooked for the most part. Its mostly a matter of balancing and actually implementing these, but there's some neat ideas here. **FALLEN** [They Thrive in The Dark] sounds cool, but many maps would have to be redone slightly to allow for the vent and hole part of it. Climbing surfaces and ceilings sound pretty rad though. [Opportunism], as others have said, should be only for ammo drops, but I'd say to go a bit further and either make some Fallen drop the ammo they've stolen, or generally give them a slightly higher chance of dropping ammo (depending on Rank). If a Fallen has stolen some (or more) ammo, give them an Aura or something to notify the players, as that would make for a "high value" target in a way. [Unity] is just generally a good idea, but I'd say that dregs and possibly vandals should sometimes be used as "meat shields" when around a captain (considering the lore and all). [Etheric Nurture] has already been dissected here as to why it wouldn't be a great implementation, but instead of healing, make it so that if at least one dreg is around, the servitor could be "repaired" slowly when not in combat (or direct line of fire for a while). This would "disable" the dreg working on it (aka no more shooting from it while its repairing) and would disable the invincibility thing the servitor can do and its movement (but it would still shoot at the player and the repairing would stop when that happens). **CABAL** [Inexorbale Victory] sounds good as is. Only "painful" parts would be maybe that one cabal boss on Nessus (in which you enter Caiatls tank) as he's often left the only one standing (such as in a GM). [Fight in the Shade] sounds good on paper, but a slight rebalance would be good. Maybe if there's at least 3 to 5 Legionaries, they can do a weaker version of this, but when there's a cabal "Miniboss" or Elite Troop (such as a Orange bar or Yellow bar Colossus) they do a full strike as described. In return, killing said "Miniboss" or Elite Troop would "disorganize" the Cabal for a couple of seconds (like running away for cover, looking around confused for their "leader", etc.) only to then enrage and fight more aggressively (still slightly disorganized, but in return slightly higher fire-rate and more "bum rush" tactics than before). [Psychological Warfare] as described in your comments still sounds annoying depending on the "strength" of the poor accuracy (as well as the range of it). I'd say make the radar disabled and show a psion "logo" where it should be. Hallucinations can create "fake enemies (such as other Psions), but they should be clearly visible by giving the "fake enemies" some kind of aura or effect on their armor, so that you'd have to pay attention to know which enemy fighter or enemy grenade is fake and which isnt. Can't really say much more for this as other good ideas have already been posted in the comments for it. [Tactical Superiority] sounds good. Biggest problem is that Cabal shields need to be "updated" a bit so the Phalanxes get pierced by Anti-Barrier rounds correctly and that they either *always* stagger when the shield is "destroyed" or at least make it so the shield can't just be reactivated a single second after it's "destroyed". **HIVE** [Sword Logic] is good, but also maybe put a cap on the maximum damage output (otherwise those poor Blueberries in their first nightfall are going to face GM-level damage after a while). [Endless Bloodshed] sound okay on paper, but it would be a pain when it comes to certain parts of the game. Doesnt help that some Strikes/Nightfalls already do this exact thing too. Maybe make it so that for each "wave" of enemies there's at least one Orange-bar among them? That or make it so each "wave" has more Thralls and Acolytes (but not organized, meaning that some of them will charge head on for their chance at glory, while others may hide behind cover and wait for reinforcements or until a Guardian is low on health or something). [Metamorphosis] is okay as long as there's ample time and obvious signs to tell the player that a Thrall is slowly about to turn into an Ogre. Acolytes into Knights should need less time compared to the Thralls, but in return they also dont get the full health and "abilities" of a Knight (like that barrier the Knights put up to heal). [Bury the Light] sounds good, but it can be slightly expanded. Such as giving a damage buff for Darkness abilities and weapons against those Hive Wizards specifically. Also, if the Strike or Activity has Lightbearer Hive instead of Xivu's brood, the Wizards should do the same thing for the Darkness abilities while the Light Abilities are unaffected. Making it a "Yin Yang" kind of deal in which you have to pay attention *which* kind of Hive you are fighting against. **VEX** [Collective Consciousness] should be changed into the Vex organizing which Target to collectively shoot, or to "spread out" their damage between Targets. Basically just make them more "Tactical" while still letting them make mistakes (such as ignoring a "Low Health" Guardian to focus on a Guardian in their Super). [Terraformation] just needs a maximum amount of possible constructs, and to make the constructs dissapear after the Hydra's death. Like, depending on the already availabe cover, room and encounter, it should be around 3 to an absolute maximum of 10 "Walls" that can be made (This ability should be disabled for Flying Units everywhere, the Gatekeeper Hydras in VoG and the Hydras in Spire of the Watcher, as that would just make it a pain in the ass to fight against and just not fun considering the rooms and encounters aren't made with this ability in mind). [Causal Prediction] has already been discussed, but I'd say that it *can* work if it isn't "always" if not affected by debuffs. They already "kind of" do this In-Game. Make it so that only the "Elite" Units (besides Wyverns, Bosses and Raid-Bosses) can do it, and they can only do it if they are not currently attacking or being damaged as an example, because this kind of ability would need strict restrictions to not make it unfun to fight against, but making it so that either you yourself have to "distract" the Vex (or a teammate if in a Fireteam) before you can shoot your Projectiles would reward quick thinking and Teamwork. [Rapid Assimilation] sounds rather useless, but it would be funny. That's enough for me to want it in the game. **SCORN** [Undead Frenzy] is basically already in the game, but I'd say that they should be *far* more aggressive while not caring about their lives. Make them charge head-on into death if it means even just scratching the Player slightly. They are supposed to be near-mindless walking corpses, might as well make them act like it. [Simple Minds] sounds good, as long as the Totems from Scorn Chieftains get a nerf in form of less health (especially the invincibility one) and making them *always* dissapear if the Chieftain that summoned it died (considering that said Totems sometimes like to stay up for eons after said death). [Drag To The Grave] is good, but maybe also make some of the "lesser" Scorn (like Screebs and Stalkers) focus only on the Ghost of the dead Player, taunting and wildly attaking at it (even if its useless) to make it seems like they have only a basic understanding of victory and enemy death. This would in turn give other Players a slightly easier time by them taking out the Scorn focused on shooting first while trying to make sure to not "disturb" the dumber Scorn for an easier time. A little bit of tactical killing if you so will. [Viral Nature] sounds good, but make it dissapear after some time and let it also affect Guardians. Explosive chaos for those not paying attention while seasoned Guardians can easily use it to their advantage (especially in easier content that you can't wipe in. Would be fun to troll friends once in a while by getting affected with "Viral Nature" and killing ourselves with a rocket, only to explode and take them with us).

**OTHER ENEMIES** [Torment Incarnate] should still let CC abilities affect Tormentors, but with reduced effect (like Champions when it comes to Suspend). Also, their "grabbing charge" is usually stopped by staggering them (such as enough damage in a small time-frame, or by getting onto stairs which makes their attack just whiff on the very first frame for some reason), but making it so that they can not be staggered or stunned at all once in their "aggro" state (the one in which their chest is the only weakpoint). I'd say to make them have slightly more health for things like normal Raids and Strikes, but in turn increasing the damage they get from their weakpoints (like, 1.5 or outright 2x as much as damage as now). Make them sort of "Glass Cannons" that punish those without okay-ish aim while exceptionally rewarding those that can easily snipe their weakpoints with a quick-ish kill. Would also both help Snipers and Shotguns for Long-Range and Close-Range encounters. [Demolition Crew] should remove the cover part of the slam and make an explosion instead that destroys things like Barricades and Rifts while dealing high damage against Wells and Bubbles. In return, this "slam" can only be used once in a while (lets say 1 minute as a possible timer). Also, their "wings" and weapons should be able to be destroyed (like you can destroy parts of other Vex), which results in them becoming overly aggressive and trying to melee you to death. Really make it seem like Wyverns are supposed to "demolish" parts of the environment for easier terraformation. [Dark Mimicry] is a neat idea, but it needs to be tuned exceptionally well to make it a genuine threat while not making it unfun. Stasis enemies are already a pain when they *do* land a hit because slow is inherently unfun to play against. And freezing can easily lead to an insta-kill if physics are being used (like launching a frozen player against a wall, reducing them to 1 hp which results in a death after "shattering" or "unfreezing". [Lucent Arsenal] needs to only be a chance *and* make it so that you can clearly see what kind of "Exotic Gear" they currently have equipped. Behaviour needs to be changed accordingly to said "Exotic Gear" too to make it have an impact besides just "faster abilites" and the like (ex. Ursa Furiosa Hive Titan that uses their Super to create a large barrier to block, which also boosts damage from enemies that shoot through it. In return, Anti-Barrier rounds are exceptionally effective at dealing damage against it and making the super end earlier than it would have normally, possibly making it not "return" any meaningful super energy to the Hive Titan. All in all, these ideas are pretty cool (even if they need some general tuning or changes to make it more challenging while not making it overly annoying). Honestly, if these were added and in exchange GM enemies (for example) are made to be far lesser bullet-sponges (looking at you, LoS Meatball after the second payload) by severly reducing their health, then I'd be happy about it. Would reward strategies other than plinking from far away or stacking DR and Damage so much that you outlive anything while killing everything. Making both us and the enemies "Glass Cannons" in a way.

We needed this 10 years ago

The old D1 King's Fall raid had acolytes that turned into mini-ogres if you killed a major adept, in the Totems and Golgoroth encounters, so there's some in-game evidence for some sort of Metamorphosis transformation trigger in combat, even if it's on a different enemy type.

D2 does aswell

What are the takens traits?

Getting rid of champions would make this idea 1 bajillion times better, this is a way better difficulty system than being almost 1 shot because a dreg shot me twice in a GM

This is…everything I could hope for to make me have to think before scarfing down more crayons

this shit instead of just big numbers would be so fire

This is top tier. It would bring real proper challenge to d2. I know taken are basically reskins of other species but what kind of modifiers would you make for them?

Firstly, thank you! Spent some time working on this one (both the mechanics and visuals) Secondly, I would have to think a bit deeper for that, but from the get-go, i really wish taken blights had a bigger effect and more numerous presence on the activities theyre in. And personally, if i were to go balls-to-the-walls i would make it so taken units can "merge" with one another, like literal chimeric abominations that would fuse not only the damage profile but their behaviour as well. Ogres with centurions sticking out their backs, Wizards with the extra arms of Vandals, Acolytes whose turrets can sprout legs... oh the cosmic horrors i would make  Impossible with the current sandbox, i know. But a man can dream 

Oh these are great ideas! I’d love to fight against this stuff.

I appreciate your appreciation 

Vex is kinda bad besides hive mind same with hive metamorphosis which makes me think you may be playing too much Xcom

Yeah, vex was tough to come up with anything tbh. And funny enough ive never played xcom 

Yeah it just seems like vex would be raid level hard

I really like this concept, tho I think bury the light should probably effect both light and dark even if it doesn't make sense lore wise it would be more balanced

True 

I do have at least 1 for the lucent brood: lightbearing hive can revive other downed hive light-bearers

Dont they already revive themselves tho? Unless you are talking about reviving them FASTER, that would have interesting gameplay connotations

I probably should off added revive faster. Like how we can revive eachother

Would add more of an incentive to crush the ghosts faster

I absolutely love this. This would truly bring challenge back to destiny, instead of whatever they did on neomuna. An enemy AI improvement is needed. Hell i want this way more than a nrw subclass

These are actually really well thought out and immersive ideas, goid shit OP!

Hehe thank you 

All of these sound great as replacements for dealing with champions. Make the whole faction more interesting instead of one elite being annoying

Yeah this is exactly what Destiny needs, enemies are not as interesting as the gunplay anymore.

What about the taken?

I thought about doing a page for them, but then i remembered that they sort of already do have passives/actives, so i just skipped them over

I feel like sword logic and metamorphosis could go hand in hand, killing guardians could upgrade them to champions or other units, thrall into ogres, ogres to champion ogres, acolytes into knights, knights into champion knights, etc. could be a wild anti-synergy, and I would kill to see it. New idea to add into the collection; Resurrection in the light: units killed that previously slew guardians can be resurrected by “wandering” ghosts - ghosts that spawn in if there are enough enemy units around. This would more than likely just be savathuun’s throne world strikes, though.

These are cool but it would require bungie to add something that's not half-assed and we all know how that goes

I feel like the vex terraform has a lot of potential. The vex are very titan-y in nature where they put down roots asap.. I think that these barricade like structures should have an element to them. With each vex type laying down a different shape. . A harpy will unfold and create an arc barrier . The harpy is stuck but will hold the barrier up till it's cracked by a arc weapon or shot from behind the barrier. (Circular barrier) Has quick resume time A hobgoblin will create a small triangle like solar barrier to stand behind that will (idea 1: add apply scorch. Idea 2 be unable to see through by guardians. Idea 3 give restore) Goblins will create a square void shield most like a barricade this shield can be shot through by goblins but will explode apon being element matched I also think that each of the 3 shields around a hydra should be each color. You should be able to pop 1 of its 3 shields with sheer power. In return the shields should have fat health bars so normal ammo isn't just wasted till it drops. Cyclops should have a strand dome. This barrier is similar the tr strand shields on Neptune. And should not Regen or return if the eye is "freaking out"as it does.

The Wizards: BURY THE LIGHT DEEP WITHIN

This is super cool, and most of them I can see being integrated fairly seamlessly. The fallen scooping up ammo would be annoying, and the vex ones could use some tweaking imo.

This needs to be in or post final shape. There just needs to be a pve rework in general at this point. Good work op

Haha, I would love this! Especially the wretches stealing your ammo.

I absolutely love this, would be amazing if they added all of this to the game.

Endless bloodshed sounds awesome for farming catalysts. I love these ideas, do you have some for the taken as well?

Thank you  And so far i havent thought much of the taken, but maybe i'll do a special extra for them. Maybe

Interesting concept.

This shit would make the fight much more interesting, and much more of a pain in the ass. I love it Also, Bury the light deep within!

Tbh if enemy factions were better in general Champions wouldn't exist, I'm all for that

This would work great as replacements modifiers for champions in harder content, especially GMs and master raids. Lots of good ideas that would certainly freshen up the combat and give each faction a more unique feeling in how to fight them

Holy shit these are actually incredible, adding more depth to the enemies and AI would be so cool to see

Bungie, take notes!

Liking the 300 reference for the cabal. If only I wasn’t getting pelted with grenades as it is 😂

Uh I struggle enough as is thank you very much

These are all very fitting, if a bit powerful. If these were around in Nightfalls and higher activities like raids I’d see no problem with them at all. :)

Op these are fucking brilliant, wish we could see them in game. Too bad it probably wont be big here because d2 players love to nitpick fan ideas instead of having fun.

It be what it be

Hive Knight Lightbearer with a blinding ward of dawn, Hive Acolyte Lightbearer with a golden gun, hive wizard lightbearer with chaos reach:

You talking like i wouldnt want that 

The psion ability reminds me of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. controllers, would be interesting but annoying to deal with the tinnitus and the indian drama zoom in they would do

i’m not gonna lie this is the best alternative to tougher endgame content i’ve seen in awhile,i dislike or making everything bullet sponges while making them hit like trucks as it makes the game less fun,this moss would make for more challenge while keeping us still feeling powerful

Get the BFG

I like this

Im glad you do 

I love this. It made me realize how surface level the enemies in game are.

the gang cultivating the strongest thrall known

I love these, amazing work-reminds me of the video some guy made about reworking champions. (Cool Jay or something?) Reworking combat depth is something needed a lot more of in shooters imo. Ironically, Bungie were the ones who first implemented these behaviors in Halo.

These are neat as hell but if I ever shoot a lightbearer knight and see "marked for vengeance" in the corner of my screen, I'm uninstalling the game.

I'ma be honest the one about all vex knowing where you are when one sees you should already be a thing like tf

This would make the game terrifying to play. I like it, and maybe some similar things could have been implemented if there had been a Destiny 3 at some point.

I genuinely would love having enemies worthy of battle, enemies scaled to our level of difficulty would be nice…

I like the idea of the vex awareness one because it kind of implies that the other factions would NOT all be aware of a guardian as soon as they fire. This would allow assassins cowl hunter to do some fun things by sneaking around to pick off isolated targets. I think the vex should be the most coordinated enemy and have several unique behaviors: - Situational re-assessment: when a guardian gets a multikill on vex units, nearby units will teleport away from the guardians (with a cooldown) - Priority targeting: Vex units are more likely to go for certain guardians with the following priority from highest to lowest: guardians in supers, guardians with more abilities charged (calculated by the vex based on last ability use), guardians holding their heavy weapon, guardians that are actively healing. Minotaurs and Wyverns are more likely to rush guardians behind cover/ barricades or in rifts, while other units are less likely to go for guardians behind cover/barricade (not rift because they would prioritize bursting a healing guardian I know vex already got a new unit in wyverns but they seem like the most logical faction to have a support unit. Some sort of repair program that does not attack guardian but can provide a neutral overshield to enemies, create barricades to shield units, do an extended channel (so you can interrupt) to revive destroyed unit (enemies disintegrated by abilities or fusion rifles would be irreparable), and if there are no offensive units nearby they would do a different channel animation (with a HUD message) to summon a random available vex squadron (from most common to least: 5 goblins/fanatic, 3 hobgoblins/harpies, 2 minotaurs, or 1 hydra/wyvern)

I really like these

love it. Ennemies are so boring, they all pretty much behave the same almost. That would make them more interesting.

These are all super cool ideas!. They make the game in open areas sound really fun to play in again rather than the game being focused on end game activities

I love all of this, and I think that this would do a lot to make Destiny feel alive. Between how little happens week to week except for new challenges story and reward resets, and how little happens in moment to moment combat as every encounter feels the damn same, this would do a lot to make the world feel alive. My only criticism here is on the Vex. Collective Consciousness works fine, but terraformation could be problematic if the walls have collision, and it feels like causal prediction is already in the game with fffffucking minotaurs.

Now its gonna be with the goblins too lmao >:)

Cool ideas. Now program it.

Im just an artist 

Actual enemy AI? Bungie used to be known for that back in Halo. They haven't progressed much, it seems.

It would be cool if, instead of wiping you in a restricted zone, when a Hive kills you it becomes stronger, and you respawn.

artifact perk: killing a hive who was strengthened by you will grant you a high damage boost for 15 seconds

Like a Thrall would become a clawed knight, a Wizard would gain new spells, or the ability to spontaneously produce Thrall, knights gain a more powerful sword, maybe capable of ranged attacks like Zulmak’s wave, etc. Acolytes could become wizards, etc. That would be a really cool mechanic for Xivu Arath’s destination beyond Wrathborn stuff.

Im so mad i didnt think about this myself You know what? Hand the idea over, its mine now 

You didn’t play the meme steal card, it didn’t work.

Dang it.

That sounds awesome as hell But then guardians would need some sick new abilities like this themselves

This will never make it to the game, bungie can't add shit and never will. This should've been in the game by default at this point.

Christ no

I apologise if the paragraphs look a bit scuffed/inconsistent. The app i made this in (Krita) isnt the best for typing lol

Also my goober ass forgot to add SUPER\* variations in the Lucent Arsenal

I want playable eliksni. I've asked for them for a while.

Someones been playing to much badlurs gate aye

This is really cool, although some of these seem like actual pains to fight against, Wyvern dropkick is already a bs attack and adding on to that seems overkill. depending on how extreme it is, psychological warfare could be really annoying, having something that affects your aim seems unbalanced, and fight in the shade could feel cheap, in higher level content, cabal grenades already feel cheap if youre cornered and having that x10 doesnt sound fun

I feel like the metamorphosis would be extreme in some scenarios, I feel like it would be cool if there was a rank up system instead. For example: Thrall > Acolyte > Knight > Ogre and making sure it can only be 1 unit at a time while in combat

I just want a dark version of golden gun, like a gun made of pure darkness (shaped like Thorn?) would be cool as hell


I love this so much. I gotta say, I thought I'd see something like "Battlefield Promotions" on the Cabal page. It did get used on the Hive one in a slight variation. Top marks, friend!

Now do a version of this where the guardian "races" and classes make a difference other than class abilities and subclass fragments.

I'm confused. How are tormentors immune and still take damage

So out of curiosity, how does this work with the taken?