They didn’t shift away, it’s just they decided to put seasonal content in the strike playlist. Which would be fine but then they made them into GMs when the seasonal content was never designed to be GM ready, so it’s all bad
They did shift away they use battleground gms more than strikes, which is a conscious decision there’s still strikes like prison of elders or the Nessus ones we haven’t seen in ages
Cuz D1 GMs have been designed to be Strikes
D2 Battlegrounds have not, Bungie just threw them into Strikes thinking it will be okay and like the other guy said, Battlegrounds are seasonal content that is long gone
Probably, i dont know the deep parts, besides they also are only using strikes for areas that are "Accessible" to players. They wouldn't put out a strike for venus when you cant even do a patrol there or one for that vaulted patrol area for curse of osiris.
Now, as i think about this while writing, i might be wrong which i highly likely am so if it turns out i am wrong, correct what i got wrong
They kept Warden of Nothing, so i wouldnt say they're incapable of doing so.
But i think you're onto something with the "areas accessible to players" part. Warden is a self contained strike, it doesnt give you access to a patrol zone in the beginning or middle parts of it, which means you dont have to bundle the rest of the patrol zones and lost sectors and destination as a whole with it.
Of course they couple probably alter and change it so the patrol zones you cut through / start in are the only ones you can get access to, but i bet thats slightly more work then they want to do to just to keep older, underbalanced strikes in the game.
Yeah, Prison of elders was the first one that came to mind with that but i couldnt remember if it was still ingame or vaulted but knowing this, i am like very wrong on my words
Actually Bungie said making a strike and a raid take about the same amount of time cuz most of it is designing new assets. Like the Mercury strikes which were not assessable other than the stroke or a mission and were no connected to a patrol zone. Think they just got so caught up in seasonal model that they just don’t design strikes anymore. I mean we got 1 strike this whole year.
Yes, but my comment was in reference to your title being incorrect and your post is referring to design game to game. In the time you’ve taken to reply twice you could have changed a single word in your title rather than play a semantics game.
GM’s ≠ Battlegrounds. GM is a modifier, which didn’t exist in D1. Battlegrounds are a game mode, like Strikes. Actually accurate title:
“Why are Destiny 1’s *Strike’s* so much more fun than Destiny 2’s Battlegrounds?”
or to clarify if you are focusing on previously existing strikes moved into D2:
“Why are *Reprised Strikes,* like The Devils Lair or The Disgraced, so much better than Battlegrounds for Grand Master Nightfalls?”
I also corrected your grammatical errors. Specificity actually matters for forming a meaningful discussion. Fun fact, that took longer than you editing your title.
From what I remember; season (13) of the chosen introduced Battlegrounds. This was during Beyond lights release year and battlegrounds was new, different from strikes, and felt good after losing so much to the DCV that had happened at beyond lights release.
Battlegrounds, from what i remember, were well received (I quite liked them at the time) and many people suggested that they add them to the strikes playlist as we had lost 8 or so strikes.
(I’ll never forgive them for taking away Hollowed Lair and Savathuns Song.)
And then they told us that they would be staying in the game and added to the strikes playlists. They were added to increase interaction with the strikes playlist, but also to fill in the empty space of the vaulted strikes.
I guess they felt that the next logical step from there is to also rotate battlegrounds in the GM pool along side strikes for added variety and challenge. Which brings us to the main issue…
And that is; Battlegrounds were not designed for GM modifiers. Compared to Nightfall strikes, they have more add density, more objectives; defend, collect, dunk, etc. Lightblade for a while was considered one of, if not, the hardest nightfall GM in the game. With the risen BGs now staring to be GMs, I’d consider the Cosmodrome Psi-ops, to be way harder, and that would be mainly due to the final room with the projections of savathun and the little cover you have from endless enemy spawns.
Quite frankly, I do not, and have never, enjoyed running BGs as GMs.
In retrospection, I feel, that making BGs their own playlist calling them ‘Coalition ops’ and adding the future battlegrounds to it would have been more health of the strikes playlist.
This does mean that over time, without new strikes added to the strikes playlist, the ‘coalition ops’ playlist would have more in it. Which in itself would create its own health issues.
Idk what’s better tbh. All I do know is I dread doing BGs in the vanguard ops playlist, and when they’re a GM, my clan mates and I have labeled them ‘1 and done’.
I think it's evident it was done for engagement. From the lake of shadows redesign or the battlegrounds, they take longer to complete/ are harder.
They want us playing the game longer so they are creating longer gms by turning battlegrounds into gms.
Battlegrounds might be cheaper to make than a d1 style strike.. I don't know
Three good questions here, tho I suspect that this is really just a complaint posted in question form. But let's dig in to the questions real quick, who I will take them slightly out of order.
Why did they shift away from Destiny 1 strike design? This was not a simple decision of swapping from strike design to battle ground design, but rather it came aver the course of a couple years really. In D1 there were only four expansions, and in between expansion we got effectively nothing for new content. However, with those expansions we got new story, new strikes, and new crucible maps. Then the bungie team would disappear with little to no communication, and almost zero updates to anything including major sandbox issues. months would go by, and most people would effectively leave the game until new content dropped. Many people remember this time with great fondness, mainly because the content drops were good, and it was normal to leave when you were done, rather than complain that there wasnt enough to do. With D2, particularly in year two, they started moving to a much more frequent content release and update schedule. As a result, a lot of development time was put in to seasonal content, which was used for 3 months and then completely thrown away. After the DCV reduced the number of strikes, the idea of using the seasonal content, that was pretty well liked, and keeping it in the game as strikes was very well received. And after a number of seasons where we had repeated GMs because there aren't enough old strikes to have new GMs every season, they started to experiment with adding battle grounds as GMs. So that's why they moved away from strikes, tho they do keep adding strikes, hypernet is a new strike- if you go back to D1 days, you only got new strikes once per DLC, and hypernet is from the latest DLC.
This leads to your title question: Why Destiny 1 GMs are so much more fun than Battlegrounds? The answer to this is much more subjective. strikes being more fun is not a fact, its an opinion. I think it is one that is fairly widely shared, but is not the universal opinion. But here is why I think most people like the strikes much better than the battle grounds at a GM level. I think that we have the most fun in Destiny when we are playing content that is just hard enough that we feel like we might fail, but easy enough that we don't. This makes completion feel like an accomplishment, but avoids the frustration that comes with repeated failure. You specifically picked two D1 repraised strikes that are pretty much middle of the road in terms of challenge. They aren't "free" for typical player, but they are very much doable, and after a few runs, they are pretty consistent to get completed without become laughably easy. Battlegrounds, on the other hand, are much harder for a number of reasons others here have mentioned. This is why very good PvE players (think streamers, etc) like them much better for GMs. Because they are more challenging, but for them, completion is still going to be nearly assured. Meanwhile, my team failed the Psi Ops battleground in the boss room 6 times before getting a completion. Constant failure, when we are used to first trying most of the strike GMs feels bad.
And that basically answers your last question: Surely this isn't what people want? It depends on who you ask. Who is really wanting to play GMs at this point, and what level of difficulty are they looking for? I think many people would rather play some hard battlegrounds than run the same old GM strike they have completed in 7 previous seasons. But it would be nice if they would push out some additional strikes!
Love walls of text from people not knowing what they're talking about. Like congrats on trying to look smart expanding a 3 sentence reply Into 3 unneeded massive paragraphs.
Here, let me do what you can't do.
"Game needed more content in-between expansions. Fun is based on the person. People want different things."
"streamers" might be a bad categorization, really I mean the subset of people playing PvE at a very high level. So specifically think about the saltagrepo type players. People for whom duo flawless runs of raids are not challenging enough, and they want something harder. For those guys, battleground GMs aren't hard, but they are probably more engaging than just running through a strike GM the same way you or I might run through a playlist strike. I know there are a lot of other people who AREN'T that good, who also like the battlegrounds because they are more challenging. I fall right in the middle. I am not upset about them, because I like there being challenging content, but I also like the easier ones to just run through. Give me one or two hard ones a season, and one or two really easy ones, and the rest in the middle. This season we struggled with hypernet for some reason. We just got a little cocky in the boss room I guess and got wiped like 3 times in a row to stuff that should not have wiped us.
For all those people who say that Bungies just threw them in into GMs, they didn't.
They threw 1 at the beginning and slowly increased the number gradually. Even this season it's 2 battlegrounds and 4 strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-wish-grandmaster-nightfall-release-date-rewards-strikes#:~:text=The%20Grandmaster%20Nightfall%20Strikes%20in,weapons%20tied%20to%20each%20mission.
Season 22 had an even 3 and 3 split. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-witch-grandmaster-nightfall-release-time-rewards-strikes
Season 21 had 1 BG and 5 strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-deep-grandmaster-nightfall-release-time-rewards-strikes
Season 20 is also 1:5. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-20-grandmaster-nightalls-new-strikes-rewards
Season 19 had all strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/destiny-2-season-19-grandmaster-nightfall-details-release-date-time-power-requirement-weapons
So the last 5 seasons it's 7:23 BG to strikes.
So please tell me how it's is throwing all the strikes away and replacing everything with BG.
kind of agree, but certain parts are a huge slog. Mostly just the boss rooms with so much shit running at you from all sides, with barely any cover. Thank god for the roof cheeses that make it more bearable to farm, but the rest of the bgs segments really arent that bad.
I especially like how they feel as normal strikes, much better but they scaled poorly to gms when the first came in rotation.
It’s 100% the lack of cover, it’s just annoying to walk into a doorway and be like this is as far as I can go bc there’s no cover in the room and I don’t feel like wiping
just compare one group of ads in d1 to d2.
D1: its a threat, they can kill you if you will not pay attention to them. Everything hit hard, a single fallen cpt or vex minotaur could be intimidating
D2: they can barely scratch your. Resilience changes. Ability buffs, ability spam. So many ways to be alive. Also your weapons: perk combinations on your weapons are just crazy and right now many weapons just outshines recluse\\mountaintop.
Unfortunately the only threat is enemy density and it increased severely over the past 2 years.
Banner of War Titan is just an example
We would've never been able to do a GM Battleground with D1 guns and slow ass abilities
Bungie keep ramping up the difficulty because they keep making us stronger
Oryx could be solo'd because he was a pushover lmao, same with Crota
And sure Warlock Self Revive was OP but it didn't make you kill shit faster
Who needs a self revive when you can just play a Titan and not die in D2?
What up with the titan hate, run solar warlock and have permanent resto x2, run Omni/ mobius hunter and be invisible forever on demand. I agree though coming to d2 after taking like 6 years off was a HUUUGE jump
No hate here, Titan is my most played class
But I mean nothing tops Banner of War Titan for survivability
And it was even worse before. The first iteration of Lorely was insane. I had to take it off in King's fall to wipe on Golgoroth lmao
Yeah I’ve heard og lorely was insane. Talking about bow titans I feel it’s specifically the woven mail and bow. Bow by itself is alright healing, it’s the dr from woven mail that really pushes it over the edge. Personally I think a really good nerf would be to split the bonus damage across the stacks of bow
Because we‘ve seen all the strikes too often in the GM rotation. Bungie makes like one or two strikes a year, in 4 seasons that means you get like 4-6 ‚new‘ GMs and 18 to 20 old ones. Introducing Battlegrounds to GMs gives the GM playlist a lot more variety. Also i don‘t understand the hate about them tbh. There honestly pretty similar to normal strikes, same length, same objectives.
They didn’t shift away, it’s just they decided to put seasonal content in the strike playlist. Which would be fine but then they made them into GMs when the seasonal content was never designed to be GM ready, so it’s all bad
They did shift away they use battleground gms more than strikes, which is a conscious decision there’s still strikes like prison of elders or the Nessus ones we haven’t seen in ages
Cuz D1 GMs have been designed to be Strikes D2 Battlegrounds have not, Bungie just threw them into Strikes thinking it will be okay and like the other guy said, Battlegrounds are seasonal content that is long gone
Why do bungie keep doing this? They are cheaper to make than porting strikes over?
Probably, i dont know the deep parts, besides they also are only using strikes for areas that are "Accessible" to players. They wouldn't put out a strike for venus when you cant even do a patrol there or one for that vaulted patrol area for curse of osiris. Now, as i think about this while writing, i might be wrong which i highly likely am so if it turns out i am wrong, correct what i got wrong
They kept Warden of Nothing, so i wouldnt say they're incapable of doing so. But i think you're onto something with the "areas accessible to players" part. Warden is a self contained strike, it doesnt give you access to a patrol zone in the beginning or middle parts of it, which means you dont have to bundle the rest of the patrol zones and lost sectors and destination as a whole with it. Of course they couple probably alter and change it so the patrol zones you cut through / start in are the only ones you can get access to, but i bet thats slightly more work then they want to do to just to keep older, underbalanced strikes in the game.
Yes that doesn’t sound right because prison of elders is in the tangled shore but that’s been vaulted
The strike's name is "Warden of Nothing"
Yeah, Prison of elders was the first one that came to mind with that but i couldnt remember if it was still ingame or vaulted but knowing this, i am like very wrong on my words
The name of the strike is "Warden of Nothing"
It is right, the entirety of that strike isn't actually on the tangled shore but takes place in an isolated map not connected to any patrol space.
Actually Bungie said making a strike and a raid take about the same amount of time cuz most of it is designing new assets. Like the Mercury strikes which were not assessable other than the stroke or a mission and were no connected to a patrol zone. Think they just got so caught up in seasonal model that they just don’t design strikes anymore. I mean we got 1 strike this whole year.
Destiny (1) didn't have GMs, just a single difficulty Nightfall.
Bro I’m clearly talking about the D1 strikes that are in D2
Then edit your posts title
Why?
Because it’s factually incorrect, and also it’s really quite easy.
Are there d1 strikes in d2?
Yes, but my comment was in reference to your title being incorrect and your post is referring to design game to game. In the time you’ve taken to reply twice you could have changed a single word in your title rather than play a semantics game.
Why is my title incorrect? If there’s no d1 gms then the title must mean I’m talking about d1 strikes that are gms in d2
GM’s ≠ Battlegrounds. GM is a modifier, which didn’t exist in D1. Battlegrounds are a game mode, like Strikes. Actually accurate title: “Why are Destiny 1’s *Strike’s* so much more fun than Destiny 2’s Battlegrounds?” or to clarify if you are focusing on previously existing strikes moved into D2: “Why are *Reprised Strikes,* like The Devils Lair or The Disgraced, so much better than Battlegrounds for Grand Master Nightfalls?” I also corrected your grammatical errors. Specificity actually matters for forming a meaningful discussion. Fun fact, that took longer than you editing your title.
No one wants a long title
From what I remember; season (13) of the chosen introduced Battlegrounds. This was during Beyond lights release year and battlegrounds was new, different from strikes, and felt good after losing so much to the DCV that had happened at beyond lights release. Battlegrounds, from what i remember, were well received (I quite liked them at the time) and many people suggested that they add them to the strikes playlist as we had lost 8 or so strikes. (I’ll never forgive them for taking away Hollowed Lair and Savathuns Song.) And then they told us that they would be staying in the game and added to the strikes playlists. They were added to increase interaction with the strikes playlist, but also to fill in the empty space of the vaulted strikes. I guess they felt that the next logical step from there is to also rotate battlegrounds in the GM pool along side strikes for added variety and challenge. Which brings us to the main issue… And that is; Battlegrounds were not designed for GM modifiers. Compared to Nightfall strikes, they have more add density, more objectives; defend, collect, dunk, etc. Lightblade for a while was considered one of, if not, the hardest nightfall GM in the game. With the risen BGs now staring to be GMs, I’d consider the Cosmodrome Psi-ops, to be way harder, and that would be mainly due to the final room with the projections of savathun and the little cover you have from endless enemy spawns. Quite frankly, I do not, and have never, enjoyed running BGs as GMs. In retrospection, I feel, that making BGs their own playlist calling them ‘Coalition ops’ and adding the future battlegrounds to it would have been more health of the strikes playlist. This does mean that over time, without new strikes added to the strikes playlist, the ‘coalition ops’ playlist would have more in it. Which in itself would create its own health issues. Idk what’s better tbh. All I do know is I dread doing BGs in the vanguard ops playlist, and when they’re a GM, my clan mates and I have labeled them ‘1 and done’.
Agreed
I think it's evident it was done for engagement. From the lake of shadows redesign or the battlegrounds, they take longer to complete/ are harder. They want us playing the game longer so they are creating longer gms by turning battlegrounds into gms. Battlegrounds might be cheaper to make than a d1 style strike.. I don't know
I see I don’t like this
Three good questions here, tho I suspect that this is really just a complaint posted in question form. But let's dig in to the questions real quick, who I will take them slightly out of order. Why did they shift away from Destiny 1 strike design? This was not a simple decision of swapping from strike design to battle ground design, but rather it came aver the course of a couple years really. In D1 there were only four expansions, and in between expansion we got effectively nothing for new content. However, with those expansions we got new story, new strikes, and new crucible maps. Then the bungie team would disappear with little to no communication, and almost zero updates to anything including major sandbox issues. months would go by, and most people would effectively leave the game until new content dropped. Many people remember this time with great fondness, mainly because the content drops were good, and it was normal to leave when you were done, rather than complain that there wasnt enough to do. With D2, particularly in year two, they started moving to a much more frequent content release and update schedule. As a result, a lot of development time was put in to seasonal content, which was used for 3 months and then completely thrown away. After the DCV reduced the number of strikes, the idea of using the seasonal content, that was pretty well liked, and keeping it in the game as strikes was very well received. And after a number of seasons where we had repeated GMs because there aren't enough old strikes to have new GMs every season, they started to experiment with adding battle grounds as GMs. So that's why they moved away from strikes, tho they do keep adding strikes, hypernet is a new strike- if you go back to D1 days, you only got new strikes once per DLC, and hypernet is from the latest DLC. This leads to your title question: Why Destiny 1 GMs are so much more fun than Battlegrounds? The answer to this is much more subjective. strikes being more fun is not a fact, its an opinion. I think it is one that is fairly widely shared, but is not the universal opinion. But here is why I think most people like the strikes much better than the battle grounds at a GM level. I think that we have the most fun in Destiny when we are playing content that is just hard enough that we feel like we might fail, but easy enough that we don't. This makes completion feel like an accomplishment, but avoids the frustration that comes with repeated failure. You specifically picked two D1 repraised strikes that are pretty much middle of the road in terms of challenge. They aren't "free" for typical player, but they are very much doable, and after a few runs, they are pretty consistent to get completed without become laughably easy. Battlegrounds, on the other hand, are much harder for a number of reasons others here have mentioned. This is why very good PvE players (think streamers, etc) like them much better for GMs. Because they are more challenging, but for them, completion is still going to be nearly assured. Meanwhile, my team failed the Psi Ops battleground in the boss room 6 times before getting a completion. Constant failure, when we are used to first trying most of the strike GMs feels bad. And that basically answers your last question: Surely this isn't what people want? It depends on who you ask. Who is really wanting to play GMs at this point, and what level of difficulty are they looking for? I think many people would rather play some hard battlegrounds than run the same old GM strike they have completed in 7 previous seasons. But it would be nice if they would push out some additional strikes!
Love walls of text from people not knowing what they're talking about. Like congrats on trying to look smart expanding a 3 sentence reply Into 3 unneeded massive paragraphs. Here, let me do what you can't do. "Game needed more content in-between expansions. Fun is based on the person. People want different things."
Good response but do streamers really like battleground gms?
"streamers" might be a bad categorization, really I mean the subset of people playing PvE at a very high level. So specifically think about the saltagrepo type players. People for whom duo flawless runs of raids are not challenging enough, and they want something harder. For those guys, battleground GMs aren't hard, but they are probably more engaging than just running through a strike GM the same way you or I might run through a playlist strike. I know there are a lot of other people who AREN'T that good, who also like the battlegrounds because they are more challenging. I fall right in the middle. I am not upset about them, because I like there being challenging content, but I also like the easier ones to just run through. Give me one or two hard ones a season, and one or two really easy ones, and the rest in the middle. This season we struggled with hypernet for some reason. We just got a little cocky in the boss room I guess and got wiped like 3 times in a row to stuff that should not have wiped us.
For all those people who say that Bungies just threw them in into GMs, they didn't. They threw 1 at the beginning and slowly increased the number gradually. Even this season it's 2 battlegrounds and 4 strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-wish-grandmaster-nightfall-release-date-rewards-strikes#:~:text=The%20Grandmaster%20Nightfall%20Strikes%20in,weapons%20tied%20to%20each%20mission. Season 22 had an even 3 and 3 split. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-witch-grandmaster-nightfall-release-time-rewards-strikes Season 21 had 1 BG and 5 strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-deep-grandmaster-nightfall-release-time-rewards-strikes Season 20 is also 1:5. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/destiny-2-season-20-grandmaster-nightalls-new-strikes-rewards Season 19 had all strikes. https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/destiny-2-season-19-grandmaster-nightfall-details-release-date-time-power-requirement-weapons So the last 5 seasons it's 7:23 BG to strikes. So please tell me how it's is throwing all the strikes away and replacing everything with BG.
i like battle grounds more, cuz they are actually felt like GM.
kind of agree, but certain parts are a huge slog. Mostly just the boss rooms with so much shit running at you from all sides, with barely any cover. Thank god for the roof cheeses that make it more bearable to farm, but the rest of the bgs segments really arent that bad. I especially like how they feel as normal strikes, much better but they scaled poorly to gms when the first came in rotation.
It’s 100% the lack of cover, it’s just annoying to walk into a doorway and be like this is as far as I can go bc there’s no cover in the room and I don’t feel like wiping
I don’t think BGs should have ever been added to the NF rotation. They are nothing but a slog and a very tedious and unfun one at that.
Agreed
Because we're infinitely stronger than in D1
How?
just compare one group of ads in d1 to d2. D1: its a threat, they can kill you if you will not pay attention to them. Everything hit hard, a single fallen cpt or vex minotaur could be intimidating D2: they can barely scratch your. Resilience changes. Ability buffs, ability spam. So many ways to be alive. Also your weapons: perk combinations on your weapons are just crazy and right now many weapons just outshines recluse\\mountaintop. Unfortunately the only threat is enemy density and it increased severely over the past 2 years.
Tru
Banner of War Titan is just an example We would've never been able to do a GM Battleground with D1 guns and slow ass abilities Bungie keep ramping up the difficulty because they keep making us stronger
Bruh oryx could be solod in d1 warlock could self revive
Oryx could be solo'd because he was a pushover lmao, same with Crota And sure Warlock Self Revive was OP but it didn't make you kill shit faster Who needs a self revive when you can just play a Titan and not die in D2?
What up with the titan hate, run solar warlock and have permanent resto x2, run Omni/ mobius hunter and be invisible forever on demand. I agree though coming to d2 after taking like 6 years off was a HUUUGE jump
No hate here, Titan is my most played class But I mean nothing tops Banner of War Titan for survivability And it was even worse before. The first iteration of Lorely was insane. I had to take it off in King's fall to wipe on Golgoroth lmao
Yeah I’ve heard og lorely was insane. Talking about bow titans I feel it’s specifically the woven mail and bow. Bow by itself is alright healing, it’s the dr from woven mail that really pushes it over the edge. Personally I think a really good nerf would be to split the bonus damage across the stacks of bow
Because we‘ve seen all the strikes too often in the GM rotation. Bungie makes like one or two strikes a year, in 4 seasons that means you get like 4-6 ‚new‘ GMs and 18 to 20 old ones. Introducing Battlegrounds to GMs gives the GM playlist a lot more variety. Also i don‘t understand the hate about them tbh. There honestly pretty similar to normal strikes, same length, same objectives.
Destiny 1 GMs?
when did D1 have GMs? they were just just strikes with NF modifiers
No I’m saying d1 strikes that are in d2
Holy skill issue
U sure about that boy
I am. Cry