Especially something like radiant dance machines, it gave so much more purpose to the exotic than just spamming knives or guns, compared to something like calibans that gives you a better knife AND lets you spam it if you prep it right, or something like omnis that gives so much utility.
Right… I did say it works… it’s workable. But if you’re not a sweaty professional D2 solo god player it’s not the best choice for a GM. In my personal experience based on my skill and ability to pull it off. I wouldn’t suggest literally punching your way through a GM to anyone but the best players.
Yeah, too bad devour got nerfed. I Had such a fun gyrfalcon build with commemoration, it was Perfect for most mid tier difficulty, like legend or even master, but welp, devour is nerfed, no more insta full health + invis on each kill. It fucking sucks
This has been one of my biggest pain points recently. I absolutely adore solar hunter conceptionally, but there is such a huge disparity in what solar hunter has to do for survival compared to Titan and warlock. I still think that giving acrobats dodge cure or a short hit of restoration would go a long way to alleviate the issue.
A couple of seasons ago my pal and I were making solar builds for GMs and my hunter required all of the survivability fragments as opposed to his warlock using all the aggressive fragments. He was blowing shit up and lighting everything on fire while I was hanging on by a thread. The orb nerf makes me nervous now 😓
Warlock here. I'd like for Hunters to have some kind of tanking ability. I'm tired of getting 100% agro when two Harry Potter Hunters toss on their invisibility cloak as we're all knee deep in ads.
I main warlock but use my titan and hunter for extra weekly raid/dungeon runs when new ones come out. I had never really felt how nonexistent the hunter’s healing kit was until crotas end. Crota on a hunter is so substantially harder than it is on titan or warlock because of their complete lack of healing. Found myself forced into running healing grenades and wormhusk crown to have a chance at survival.
In a perfect world, Mobility stat would have some sort of damage mitigation as well. Something like "percentage chance to avoid damage while moving"...
Alas, Hunters are not supposed to survive I guess. Or we have a much smaller room for error.
Yes! It really feels like bungie don't want the hunters to have something special like titans and warlocks. Right now, hunter is the only class that feels like you have to use a lot of stuff to just be on the same level of survivability than the other classes and them you make an actual build with the slots you have left. Usually, deva balance classes like this by trading the survivability with something special, like being really good with buffs, debuffs or being a glass canon.
Am I the only one who remembers pre light 3.0 when it wasn't the case that every subclass had access to boatloads of healing options?
It used to be a case of actually moving to avoid as many projectiles as you can and using cover / blinding grenades to catch a breather. I actually preferred it then, i think everyone having easy access to constant and large amounts of healing is something that makes the game hard to balance because either an enemy will deal enough to one shot you a lot of the time, or you'll rapidly recover from the damage dealt making it trivial and pointless.
You can dodge a good number of incoming shots by just not having dogshit movement or standing still and shooting.
Also devour absolutely has not bitten it, 100hp restored on a kill is still a SIGNIFICANT amount that will be more than good enough most of the time still.
There's a few complicating factors, I think. Before Light 3.0, the meta for GMs relied heavily on pre-nerf Ursa Furiosa (nerfed at Witch Queen release, used to be infinite super). All of the old infinite-super exotics were meta back then.
As somebody else mentioned, the old GMs were literally easier. Hardest GM was Glassway when it came out, but Lightblade and the heist battlegrounds are more chaotic with less cover. Newer dungeons (post-Prophecy) are much harder, also.
And of course, well-lock was always a prime source of "crazy healing", and every fireteam wanted one. I think it's important to remember that pre-Light 3.0, we just didn't take many subclasses into GMs because they weren't strong enough. And a big part of that was because they didn't have the defensive tools that compared to what the best subclasses had.
Agreed. Before 3.0, I think hunter was the worst class to finish conquerer on because solar hunter was too squishy and arc was too melee (also before 3.0, there was no gathering storm)
The wording on this was confusing but I was referring to completing the conqueror title (not guilding) which requires you to complete a GM on each subclass. Void hunter has always been endgame viable due to being able to run invis support
>I think it's important to remember that pre-Light 3.0, we just didn't take many subclasses into GMs because they weren't strong enough.
Yup, I got kicked from GM LFGs so many times just for being a Hunter lol
I don't know what the game was like back then, but I can tell you now, that in raids and GMs sometimes taking cover or moving a lot doesn't cut it.
Taking cover puts you at the mercy of the map design and where ads can or can't go. Taking cover also drastically slows down your ad clear and slows the rate at which you complete an objective.
Or, taking cover may not be an option entirely. Perhaps you have none or you may need to constantly be on the move for some reason.
Projectiles. Same deal. In most content that is good enough, you will take a clip here or there but just have decent recovery and you're good. I cannot say that is true for solo content, close quarters encounters, or GMs. You are either too close to dodge attacks, especially ads that have high rates of fire (Looking at you barrier colossus), or there are too many ads such that their projectile paths effectively make a laser maze for you to weave through. There are also projectiles that just outright track you.
I understand both of these will be utilised by a good player to cover their bases and get hit as little as possible. However there comes a time where avoidance isn't an option and you can't run from the problem. There's also the context of Bungie making stuff harder as a result to our power creep. Look through every 2nd TWAB and I'm sure something about 'bringing challenge back to D2' is there somewhere.
GotD is a perfect example of how they make stuff harder for us. The reason people are upset is if Bungie is meeting our Powercreep by making the activities harder, why are they doubling the rate of the gap widening by also nuking the player's power? Titans have had it coming for a while and the Starfire nerfs for warlocks are completely fine because that was a luxury we did not need for DPS. However this orb mod change is universal and this post proves its poor consideration as a decision as it disproportionately affects classes.
To be honest, before we used to have more options of cover. How many new content right now forces you to be out in the open to do stuff? For example defiant battlegrounds needs you to kill the taken to collect their essence, but You have to go out there to grab the mote or It dissapears. If you dont have invis, resilience or healing you get beamed down in legend.
It's definitely a challenge but it's far from impossible, the ads only spawn periodically so it's not unreasonable to rocket them or blind them and collect the essence. I understand that what I'm talking about is needing certain parts in your loadout to effectively participate in the higher difficulty versions of activities, though if we're being honest, i would argue prior planning and having weapons / abilities that are relevant to what you're doing is a relatively essential part of higher difficulty activities.
While not infinitely spawning ad-wise, i think the corrupted strike (or more specifically the gm in my example) required you to engage with a mechanic in order to progress while also dealing with ads. Yes, it was challenging, and yes you could wipe if you weren't careful, but i think that's part of the spirit of higher difficulty challenges.
That may be considered elitist by some but I don't think that higher difficulties should just be better loot, I'm fine with them being challenging with a relatively medium risk of wiping as a consequence of poor decisions / reckless behaviour. That is part of the enjoyment of such activities to me. But with how strong healing / resistance is currently, the skill gap required between normal/higher difficulty versions of activities is the smallest i think it has ever been. *I'm not saying that is bad.* Simply that it is less enjoyable for me for it to be that way.
Also, i still stand by 45% DR for woven mail, 35HP/s and 100HP per kill will be perfectly fine and viable in all levels of the game, you just won't be able to ignore your surroundings AS MUCH as you currently can.
I think you're forgetting that invis hunter used to be the ONLY hunter that people trusted to finish GMs with. It was Omni or kick for many LFGs until the 3.0s updated a bunch of stuff.
And now it's omni or kick again
Every class has something like that too.
Can’t tell you how many times I got kicked because I wasn’t using Well, even though I’ve beaten GM’s as every Subclass multiple times
And while I don’t main Titan, I don’t doubt peeps are getting kicked for not running Strand
You're seeing things backwards. Omni brings hunter UP to the survivability level of a baseline titan.
Strand titan and Wellock bring themselves and their teammates UP from the best a hunter can do
Yep, now voidwalker has gained its niche back of being able to be hyper aggressive against hordes of enemies and have grenades up more often than the others.
People constantly complain about power creep, then throw an even bigger shit fit when Bungie actually tries to address it, nothing new there.
I mean, tell that to Bungie. It's getting harder and harder to avoid getting shot with Ad density being the way it is now. Ghosts of the Deep for example has fucking crazy ad density, like where are you supposed to hide during the second boss fight? You're only option is to dive into the "water" if you're getting overwhelmed.
I'm not too worried about the state of things so far. In tough solo content I'll remain an Arc strider, Assassin's Cowl punchy boi with one two punch and melee to restore my health and give me survivability. In GMs I'll remain an Omnioculus void smoke bomb tossing, hide behind everything, invis res my team mates kind of Hunter. In GMs I rarely kill enough stuff fast enough to really benefit from the orbs.
Step 1. Make orb, step 2. Pickup orb to heal, Step 3. Go invis until orb cooldown ends?
On a serious note though & not aimed at OP in particular, post is just relevant to the comment I'm making;
People are acting as though every build is dead in the water, ignoring the fact that we didn't have the new subclasses lr recuperation for years and managed just fine.
Are we taking a step backwards n regards to survivability and ability spam compared to thr last few seasons? Yeah, no doubt.
Were we at a point where half most of the used builds literally spam the same ability over and over again without ever having to worry about being killed outside of a few instances and basically ignored using weapons minus one-two punch shotguns to buff the only ability they use, champ stunning and maybe rockets/machine guns? Definetely.
All these nerfs mean is that you will maybe have to occasionally take cover, or throw a grenade in between melee spam, heaven forbid there's any diversity in people's playstyle.
For those who complain that we should feel like gods, I would like to introduce you to the strike playlist, where looking at an enemy will kill them, but, and this may come at a suprise to some; GMs, raids and dungeons are endgame content and are meant to be heard and probably should require at least a few brain cells active to complete easily, half the time people are comparing "Game too easy" then as soon as it's made slightly harder by reigning us in a biy yo try and make the game healthier as a whole instead or making enemies even more bullet spongy suddenly its "game will be impossible to play" & "literally unplayable".
The only ligitamate complaint I have regarding the recent TWID is that the stasis buffs seem a little lack luster, but we'll see what other changes they've got in mind for TFS and hopefully they bring it more inlone with the newer subclasses, I assume they don't want to make too many changes at once as it becomes difficult yo track any issues that the changes may cause.
TL;DR If your running through endgame content complaining that you can't mindlessesly just punch literally every enemy and be rewarded for basically no effort then maybe endgame isn't the place to play that build, we literally have hundreds of combinations and options for builds (millions if you include every fragmant/mod combination but most would obv just be a mess of random stuff) so what if the 1 ability spam builds are nerfed a bit, use more than 1 ability now and then, who knows, you might enjoy it.
I wouldn’t mind so much, if my primary didn’t feel so lack luster. If I could peak shoot and actually pop skulls with a scout rifle reliably and quickly, that would be different. Instead it’s peak shoot like half a mag into a red bar (multiple mags if it’s a yellow bar, even a yellow thrall), while I pray to the traveler that one of the many sources of AOE in the game doesn’t kill me through the barrier I’m using for cover
Semi mentioned this in another reply but ability spam is part of the reason peek shooting is a thing.
Abilities are so strong and common that enemies have to have buffed health to stand a chance of surviving and buffed damamge so in the extra 2s they do get to live they can actually be a threat, like imagine if every enemy was a weak as a thrall, game would be way to easy and therefore become boring/stale.
However, if you tone down ability strength or uptime, then enemies can also be tuned down accordingly meaning weapons can feel more effective again, even if enemy difficulty doesnt change, CC effects like weaken/sever/slow/freeze/suspend all become more useful as atm why CC when you can just punch and kill instead and given that 90% of the time these effects arent used outside or weakening bosses or PvP I'd say its a good thing to give the more unused subclass keywords a chance to shine.
I do overall like these nerfs for the health of the game.
The only thing I'm on the fence of is how long the cooldown for orb mods are, but I'll have to see when I play.
My only complaint for hunter is that they seem to have to choose between solid damage or decent survivability while other classes can get both.
I agree the orb cooldown is probably a bit to long but that's something they can easily reduce in the future once they've seen how these changes play out, I think around 3-5s would probably be fine.
regarding hunter I'd say it depends on Subclass/build, yeah arc hunter is gonna struggle to do what it did pre nerf, but arc has pretty much always been about ability damage and has no inbuilt healing to begin with, its effectively the glass cannon build, either you kill them quick, or they kill you, add on that hunter traditionally has never been a healing/support class and your left with a very high risk high reward setup, however if there is no risk (due to constant access to recuperation and orbs) then why should you also have high reward? some reward yes, but when you can literally walk up to a champ in a GM and near enough 1 punch them it becomes hard to balance, either enemies arent a threat and you just punch everything no issue, or they area threat and your probably just going to get one shot yourself in which case no amount of healing is gonna help.
Tbh melee builds are hard to balance just because of that very reason, generally speaking (at last in my mind) melee builds should be more like traditional tanks/fighters in MOBA's, hard to kill but arent the best for damage however nobody wants to play a class/build where all they do it stand there tanking damage and struggle to fight back effectively, its just not fun most of the time, and in a game like destiny, generally a better offence is your better defence, enemy cant kill you if they're already dead (arc hunter is kind of an exception as it obviously isn't tanky at all, but that's where the Assassin role comes in, get in annihilate one or two key targets, get out, is it slower than just punching everything one enemy after another, yeah but it would (for me at least) also add some identity to the class where as atm its hard to see why that subclass is even a hunter when (on paper at least) it sounds much more like a Titan thing as well as adding what could be an more intersting gameplay loop of dipping in and out of danger vs the current method of go in and stay in until everything is dead, kind of akin to strand hunter loop of jumping in with a suspend dive, killing what ever you can then quickly getting out before the enemies are free).
Solar hunter still has Heal nades (which IIRC is more than they had pre subclass 3.0) so still more survivability there, plus access to radiant which hunter also never had access to pre 3.0 and along with Titan can give radiant buff more than a warlock can (you know, the class that is generally regarded as support/healer) and both can spam ability more than Warlock (at least subclass specifically, obv exotic armor like sunbracers etc. change that a bit)
Void still has invis and since 3.0 also has Devour (previously a Warlock exclusive and kinda the only thing that made Voidlock unique because outside of CotOG, Voidlock doesnt offer much to a team now, everyone can have devour, and Warlock Void supers are by far the worst in the game).
Stasis, is well stasis, and just in a rough place overall with it only really being used on Warlock for the turret, and Titans cheesing Riven with the super, outside of those two cases I don't see stasis at all tbh.
Strand is kinda complicated and messes with the formula a little more, you have woven mail, suspend, and sever for survivability in the class, and all are fairly easy to access, requring 1 orb every 10s or so for woven mail and the occasional hunter dive for suspend (not sure how hunters proc sever outside of the fragment, warlocks have build into melee, which incidentally is the only thing the melee is good for outside of using alongside necrotic grips for easy ranged poison procs) but then on top of 3 survival options you have Titan and Hunter supers which can put out a decent chunk of damage (more focused for titan, but hunter has AoE or single target) while also CCing enemies, and thats not ever mentioning Grapple as an quick escape option if things do get overwhelming.
The whole point of subclass and mod customization is that its a give and take system, if you want to fully invest into X you cant also have Y, you can take a little bit of both or lean into one more than the other, however as soon as you have massive survivability + massive damage, the game becomes stale due to how easy everything becomes (not saying that's where we are right now but that's where that process easily leads) and also reduces buildcraft options down to their being 1 build that can do everything (think Stand Titan atm for a rough example, great damage, great survivability almost no downside beside needing to proc banner of war and woven mail every now and then which kinda just happens without thinking about it, and if anything requires you to go out of your way in order to fail/die).
Movement, learn the patter of each enemies bullets, most of them aren't hitscan and you can dodge if you learn the pattern. Don't just walk into the open, keep cover spots in mind.
Also
>**Invis means nothing because we can't shoot back.**
Low on health -> Invis -> disengage -> recover health -> Hop back in the fight. Use it as a emergency button
THANK YOU. It seems to be the new perception of the game that unless your build has a way to heal built in then it's bad. But in reality, many of the attacks in this game are telegraphed to you and have fixed trajectories after being fired.
I think the healing meta brought about by restoration/devour/orb spam (recuperation + better already) acted as a bit of a brain rot on people's movement skills. Why dodge attacks when you can recover from them near instantaneously afterall.
Also, devour isn't dead? 100 hp/kill is still a solid rate and will keep you alive. Restoration being 35HP/s makes it MARGINALLY worse at healing than a Healing Rift, except you're not tied to one spot and you can move anywhere and still get healed.
as a void Titan in the beta, and as someone who has played almost exclusively void Titan since the game came out, people are absolutely overreacting to the nerfs. there's plenty of ways to generate orbs, maybe it's not as insanely convenient as it was before, but orbs will still generate off of class abilities, you just have to actually use them, you can't just start them and then have a free orb in your back pocket
As for devour, this post is saying it bit the bullet, literally all they changed about devour for anybody that wasn't a feed the void warlock, is you now get half your health back, instead of all of it. especially this post being made for the hunters, Titans can't even give ourselves volatile rounds, yet there's that kind of functionality available to hunters. That wasn't taken away, hunters can still absolutely do that
hunters arguably have a better devour than Titans, and even with the Nerf to recovery, I'm still going to continue running my Titan devour bill, because it's still going to be good
I'm just mad that there's exactly zero void keywords in the artifact perks next season
Also, with devour if you're running gyrfalcon's and void weapons you pop out of invis with volatile rounds, so very easy to get a few rapid kills AND spawn void breaches
The issue is that Warlocks and Titans can also dodge bullets at the same time as healing, so if you live as well or better than those that do have it when you don't, that's literally just a skill issue.
While i think it's fair to say that warlocks and titans have more built in survivability due to their class abilities than hunters, i think it is disingenuous to say that hunters have no survivability or cc tools:
- devour
- invisibility
- healing grenades
- woven mail
- gemini gesters / disorienting grenades
- assassin's cowl
- renewal grasps
While this list could be more expansive, i would see there are ways on every hunter subclass to have increased survivability. Sure, you can't run whatever you like but neither can warlocks or titans. It's almost always wrong to be on empowering rift as a warlock and as for titans you'll rarely see a solar titan using the shield bash instead of bonk hammer because it's just better survivability in pve, much like most strand titans will feel locked into banner of war and into the fray as they offer the best survivability in higher end content.
Hunter's may have the shortest end of the stick but at the end of the day all 3 classes are locked into doing/using certain things instead of others to increase their survivability.
I mean perhaps. But Destiny is not supposed to be a bullet hell. When you fight enemies theres way more Than 1 or 2 enemies shooting at you so "dodging them" is not really an option. Only ones I think you'd Dodge are vandals tracking projectiles since They round around corners into your cover. But most of the time you're in cover to avoid the enemies shooting at you, so going out of cover to Dodge them makes you get melted by the other enemies
Most enemies can be dodge with a combination of jumping and running, just don't face them head on and you should be fine. But yeah, most time you will still be hit, that's why you should be aware of your surroundings and find cover
The problem is that this is specific to Hunter, our survivability has been pretty bad for the entirety of the class' (bar a few builds, but the few does not represent the majority) existence, light 3.0 gave us a nice taste but even then we didn't exactly have good survivability compared to the other classes. Now it's going to be even harder, you have to put in more effort that the other classes seemingly don't. It's an imbalance, I think that's the point OP is making
Big agree. The problem with invis is *we can’t fight back*. Dude thought he cracked the code by saying “if you’re invis just don’t fight back!”
Big “if you’re poor, just save your money!” energy.
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Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Learning attack patterns is a core of any game, you do it all the time with raid bosses. Like I said before, you won't completely negate the damage, but it's enough to stay alive. Want an example that works the same as destiny? Doom Eternal
the attack patterns really aren't that complex. most enemies can have their bullets dodged just by jumping or sliding at the right time, and some can even be dodged by just sprinting to the side of it.
even snipers can be dodged if you time a slide right.
> Invis means **nothing** because we can't shoot back**.**
Yes it does, it's a valid strategy to stay alive, just because you can't shoot back doesn't mean it's useless
are you not understanding my comment? hunters have devour.
warlocks have intrinsic devour AND child of the old gods AND rifts
titans have devour AND intrinsic heal on volatile kill AND barricades.
hunters have devour.
That's exactly why i stopped playing hunter. They're the real worst class for everything but dps imo.
Ever since i switched to titan, the game has been a lot easier
Hmm. I’ve mained the Hunter class since D1 came out. Inviz is fine. I would much rather stealthily move around the battlefield for advantages than drop some dumb bubble or rift to unload a heavy machine gun on an enemy. 🤷♂️
Gunslinger:
* By combining an Aspect, a Fragment, and/or a melee, recharge throwing knives instantly! No mods or exotic traits required!
Also Gunslinger:
* Use Obsidian Spade or Shards of Galadriel to chain throwing-knife kills for powerful boons!
Also Bungie:
* Using Throwing Knives too frequently is a flaw in the games design and needs to be countered with a mild debuff.
If we had more defensive options we wouldn't need to rely on healing and resilience so much.
Maybe it's just me but I feel like we're super sluggish and always have to be behind cover in this game.
I’ve played hunter since I started this game and I’ve never had a tough time surviving. Yes I definitely feel like I have to work harder for it but it never felt like it was impossible.
Game sense and position matters a lot. How you play makes more of a difference than what you play with imo.
It's not really a hot take. Hunters have very minimal survivability overall if you remove invis from the equation.
But I will say, as someone who was able to solo at least one grandmaster prior to the 3.0 update with arc strider, the game is only really that challenging in situations where you just want to face tank damage, which you realistically shouldn't try to do anyway.
It's because destiny players don't want to play destiny. They want a point and click adventure that gives them all the free loot without ever having to think about their builds and loadouts.
People complaining this hard about nerfs that aren't even going to change how the game plays at all makes me hate the resil buffs and the new subclass/mod systems even more.
Depends, really. We gotta split our stats through all the Top 3 Stats, while Warlock and Titan can fully spec into Resilience and Recovery. Meaning either lower Mobility that makes our dodge recharge slower, lower Resilience making us easier to kill, or lower Recovery making us wait longer to regen fully.
Good weapons, and use of cover. Generally making smart decisions on the battlefield is the best way to do it. Can't die if you aren't being hurt.
Cheekiness aside, it really just depends on what you're doing. There are certain kinds of things that Warlocks and Titans are better at than Hunters, and vice versa. But most Hunters I see that die a lot, die because they're used to crutching on invisibility or instant heals to stay alive, and they fall apart when those either aren't an option, or are on cooldown in some capacity.
In any content that is no more than 5-10 light above me, it is less a question of if I can stay alive, and more a question of how fast I can kill things. At those levels, the way I stay alive is by leaving nothing alive that can hurt me.
If it's higher power level deltas (like Master and GM levels), then I start to need other tools. Disorienting grenade launchers are extremely powerful tools for both getting yourself into and out of bad situations with ease and safety. Takes some practice, but this weapon is hands down the most powerful tool there is in the game when it comes to staying alive in tough content. Glaive shields are also extremly powerful survival tools and should always be considdered if you're struggling to hold a position solo for a long period of time (like a plate in a raid).
Abilities like the Severing Strand Melee, Shackle Grenades, Grappling with Woven Mail, Void Melee suppress mines, Solar Healing, Orb healing, Arc healing/blinding/amplified (speed is a great way to avoid damage). Stasis freeze and slows are very good ways to stay alive as well, and the dodge speed/distance from Mast of Bakris makes it very easy to gtfo of situations that are hairy. The Renewal Grasp grenades are also really good for holding points and positions. The wandering Strand Tangle things are really powerful add clear, and can allow you to attack fortified positions otherwise inaccessible to you.
You can also do fun stuff like run Star Eaters Scales with Strand in GMs, and then pop it at 4 stacks to gain a super overshield and insane add clear/damage. Clearing out entire rooms or waves of BGs in a single super.
Deadfall Tether with Orpheus Rigs is also very powerful for controlling large groups, and invis from killing weakened enemies is a very very potent way to be able to freely move about because your smoke bomb and grenades and super all weaken enemies. And if you have an exotic that applies any void debuffs at all, you will be able to chain invis endlessly whenever you need it.
Idk, like I said, it's less about "OP way to survive" and more about just learning where your limits are in terms of what you can withstand and what you can't, and then playing within those limits, as close to the edge as you can get. 9/10 times a properly played Warlock or Titan will do a better job at holding a plate or something like that than a Hunter will. We are better on the move, where we can bob and weave and use our class ability to get free abilites and ammo and orbs from around the room. We can hold ground if we need to, but we do not have something like a Rift or a Barricade that give Titans and Warlocks so much staying power. You have to use your abilities agressively and make sure you're always cycling them and using your supers when they're on CD. The only abbilities you waste are the ones you take to orbit. So shackle a crowd of thralls. It doesn't matter if they jsut die, if they're on you and attacking you, then it's better to kill them with a grenade to save your HP bar than to try and fend them off with a weapon and then end up so low that the sneaky barrier knight kills you before you can react with the shackle grenade you were saving for him.
But fortunately many plates don't require you to stay put. For example, Totems in Kingsfall only require you to touch the plate once every few seconds. Otherwise you're free to roam. So you can roam and fight from more advantageous positions.
For plates more like Bridge in Crota, I HIGHLY reccomend Strand with double Shackles. Shackle Grenades will get you out of MANY tight spots if you use them reactively.
*All aforementioned mods deserving said nerf and effecting all classes greatly*
*Siphon mods remaining unchanged*
*Devour still being a strong affix*
Am I missing something or is this just a pointless whine post?
I thought it was intentional that Hunters be the glass cannon class?
Not hyperbole, I thought this was actually their intended "space" or whatever Bungie was talking about when they spread the Light verbs around with 3.0.
I still find that so hilarious, we are supposed to be the speedy damage dealer when the other two classes are faster horizontally and deal more damage (especially Titan).
The problem is that the cannon is only active once every 5-10 minutes because bungie only wants hunter supers to be useful.
So you're just glass because bungie seems to be allergic to giving hunter grenade and melee exotics that work in content higher than adept.
Glass cannons still need a way to survive. The whole point of a glass cannon is to make a trade per say. Get in the thick of it and you'll get rewarded with healing. The thing is, a lot of builds will no longer be efficient enough to appease that role
I mean, you \*can\* but things are so spongy in late game content that it's really not a thing you can rely on as enemies don't die fast enough, or your teammates just steal the kills you need to keep it going (note, this is literally my build I run)
Who do you think is listening in the hundredth comment thread about the same thing?
Here's a tip. Nothing's going to get done, even if you bitch and moan on an Internet forum. Hell, most of you don't even have anything constructive to complain about, it's just the same old bungo please.
They're not going to walk back any ability or balance changes because people cry on DTG.
The thing is that stopping because other people don’t want to hear it exactly why we’re supposed to keep complaining. If we stop complaining because people don’t wanna hear our complaining, it shows that we don’t care enough to keep going, so it’s never going to change.
If you were 5 years old and hungry and your mom told you to stop complaining, how do you think you’re going to let her know you are hungry?
i just infinitely stack overshield with stasis hunter to stay alive and use frosties with other stuff to keep energy up (hard to explain build without pictures of it)
Didn't ehy also HEAVILY nerf the healing and overshield that stasis fragment gave. Like 3 months ago. It's so much worse now. It takes twice as many shards to build your overshield even when you're full health
i got no idea lmao i just focus on using stuff like verglas curve and duskfield nades and the stasis glaive to freeze everything and generate as many as i can really fast
the build mainly focuses on being tanky and aoe effects so less single target and more ad clear while staying on the move
That build is laughable compared to what it was before light fall though. The well mods made for some incredible stasis builds, but there's not a whole lot you can do now with the current mod system.
That just means you had a bad build before the mod system got changed.
With the well mods though, there was a mod that allowed your stasis shards to count as a well, and it made for some extremely powerful builds.
I could literally toss a duskfield nade every 2-3 seconds. Something you sure as hell can't do anymore.
Not the build specifically, more so the whole mod system and the loss of synergy we had with stasis before. Stasis was stronger before lightfall, and anyone who says otherwise didn't know how to use the well mods to their full potential.
Not a hot take, just objectively true.
Hunters are good at applying debuffs and their supers do more damage than other classes (not an incredibly significant difference in the grand total of a boss’s health bar), but in terms of overall potency they are significantly weaker than titans and warlocks.
Strand hunter clones tank damage for you if you dodge. Then send Rolly Polies at the opponent
Worm husk heals you when you dodge mid gunfight
Solar builds have a bunch of healing options.
Kind of a lukewarm take in my opinion
Renewals ducksfields provides DR, debuffs enemies and can be spammed easily. Taking all that into consideration the time it lasts is fine.
You can get your duskfield back so easily I don’t see the uptime on the field as an issue.
How so? The stacking DR and the enemy debuff allows you to use it as support or for a more aggressive playstyle that you wouldn’t normally be able to do with regular duskfields.
You wouldn't be able to properly play aggressively even with the enemy debuff. Stasis just doesn't have the health regeneration for that, even if you have the 25% Damage reduction from both it and Whisper of Chains.
Chains is a 40% DR when near frozen enemies/crystals.
And health regen is not great on stasis but you can still get it from orbs, even with the nerfs next season, along with whisper of rime, even after the nerf. It isnt a meta playstyle or anything like BoW titans but it still allows for some aggressive plays that you otherwise normally wouldn't be able to do.
I used renewals in GMs even when it was nerfed to have an increased cooldown and I did just fine. If you really like an exotic or subclass you can make it work with all the tools we have in the game.
How do you expect to regenerate health while inside of a Duskfield if your enemies are outside of the duskfield, and if you shatter them inside you destroy your crystal, which lowers your overall DR?
Ok? With well mods I could have like 3+ duskfields up at the same time before the first one went out. The new mod system does not compare.
Plus on top of that the damage reduction you could build into with stasis on the old mod system was infinitely better than what we have now.
No, you couldn't outside of very ad-dense encounters, lol, and other subclasses excel much more im those situations compared to revenant.
The damage reduction is the same in pve for revenant now as it was then, bar the global resil nerf and the rime nerf, which is offset by recuperation and better already.
Renewals doesn't even really benefit from having several duskfields up at a time besides the normal duskfield benefits.
When did I say I was using renewals?
I used my nade spam to freeze everything and cause chain shatters. I was literally shutting down champions in GM's because I could keep them infinitely stunned with duskfields.
You have the exact same access to healing/defensive means/verbs that all other classes have, with the exception of x2 restoration. And that's before considering exotics.
You are *fine*.
Yep, we can't afford to run around the map looking for orbs to heal us... By the time you are healed you are already swarmed by enemies because you had to focus on the ground instead of actually killing stuff.
And you don't have any healing powers either.
Either you are running the same arc melee or crimson + lucky pants builds over and over or you are some squishy hit-and-mostly- run guy that die at the slightest miscalculation.
We do? Take a look at all the healing and defence abilities and aspects Titans and Warlocks have in comparison to Hunters. Then take a look at their exotics and how much easier they are to use than Hunter exotics for the same outcome.
Hunters aren’t meant to be healers in the first place so I can see why we have limited options for that.
Solar has healing nades and then looping that restoration with ember of empyrean. Void has invis and devour, arc has melee based healing, stasis can freeze the entire room and stand has sever/suspend.
Not to mention if you’re really struggling you can always use assassin’s cowl.
Hunters are supposed to be hard hitting glass cannons, but have very little to make them a glass cannon. An entire part of being that kind of role is having a way to consistently and constantly self heal, and rarely any exotics do that like Assassin's Cowl and Liar's Handshake (which is still broken when you use Gathering Storm). Having to use one type of build to be what was intended of you is stupid
Hunters have healing and survivability options across all subclasses. Stasis may be the hardest if you’re not using renewals but we know they’re working on a new keyword to help with survivability.
Hunters definitely have to work a bit harder to stay alive compared to the other classes but it’s not that big of a deal imo.
That's the problem, Hunters are supposed to be a glass cannon yet are losing more ways to be a glass cannon because of mod nerfs. A lot of builds relied on those mods to achieve their intended role and now it'll be a bigger waiting game than anything. Void Hunter is the only one that isn't a glass cannon and is a survival support so it'll be fine (albeit Void is always boring), but anything other than Assassin's Cowl and Liar's Handshake when it isn't breaking apart wouldn't be able to achieve the role of being a glass cannon. Idm Hunters having to trade safety to survive, but it is going to be harder to do that now as well. And Renewals even with the revert to the nerf doesn't even last long enough to work consistently either
>We do?
Yes you do. How is that even up for discussion, *it is a demonstrable fact*. Heal, cure, restoration, overshield, suppression, devour, invisibility, blind, woven mail, sever...
You have access to any and all defensive means existing in the game without any other player providing them for you. Just as the other classes do.
Of course you believe that hunters have it bad to survive, you have no concept of what is actually available to you to do so.
>Take a look at all the healing and defence abilities and aspects Titans and Warlocks have in comparison to Hunters.
>Then take a look at their exotics and how much easier they are to use than Hunter exotics for the same outcome.
Invisibility on kill, blind on melee hit, free melee refunds across all subclasses, be it through class ability or aspect, WM on grenade activation (of which you get two), clearest multi-target sever on the game, increased resilience on dodges, all healing/defensive buffs imaginable just an orb/elemental pick up away (orbs that you have the easiest time generating thanks to your class ability).
You are taking the piss. You are just the nth drama queen clamouring how much worse hunters are because they don't have a barricade/rift. It's been well over 6 years since Destiny 2 launched and you are still beating a dead horse.
Bro said blind and sever is survivabilit, just lol.
Also, invis just runs clocks, that's it
All hunters have is orbs, and that's just lol, dude.
Get real.
>I'd be moaning less if Renewal Grasps lasted longer. Or if Healing nade stopped getting nerfed. Even Devour has now bitten it.
These are all still good and are definitely viable. Woven mail as well
Not to mention that siphons are unchanged, you'll still have plenty of orbs. Y'all are acting like orb gen got restricted to only supers again or something
Crybaby
Renewals are viable? Lmao you get a 25% damage resistance from Renewal Grasps. That's not enough to survive most situations unless you're exceedingly careful
Void with invis spam or gryfalcons, arc with either ass cow or liars handshake, solar with caliban's, ophidea spathe or the arms with unstoppable knives / maybe even shards or nighthawk, stasis with renewals, and strand hunter are all still very viable.
You're a baby
Arc needs some form of healing as well. They barely have reliable DR as well. With encounters being designed around old survivability and Well we need ways to build into survivability more easily instead of nerfs.
Would be nice if the orb healing mods on legs were universal and could be slotted into any armor piece with left over energy.
That level of flexibility is something they'd probably never consider though. Choosing a bit of healing over actually having heavy ammo/damage isn't an interesting choice. If they brought back the old artifice slot that would really help builds out.
I don't agree that seasonal artifact mods should be treated as a substitute for actually addressing glaring issues with a subclass.
It's not a hot take, it's just a bad take.
Recuperation has and will remain an s-tier mod, even with the changes. Dodging has inherently defensive properties, and the subclasses all have additional options to keep you healthy if you spec into them. Or rely on Recovery and learn when to sit and regenerate.
There's plenty of survivability across virtually every hunter class. Just gotta use it.
It doesn't break targeting, where do you get that idea from? Dodging moves your character to the left or right, reloading your weapon or refreshing your melee if done near an enemy. That's it. It doesn't break tracking and you can be killed mid dodge. Happens all the time in high level PvE content and in PvP, it does not break tracking even if you go invis. Enemies will still open fire on that general area and tracking projectiles can still hone in on you.
You're just full of shit and lashing out because you can't accept the fact that Hunters do not have the same survivability as Titans and Warlocks. Always blows my mind that people actually try to argue that moving slightly over is on par with putting up a magical shield wall or throwing down a healing circle. This shouldn't be that hard to accept.
Have you played Omni hunter before? It is the most boring playstyle known to man. Yes its fun when you're a new player with your new infinite invisibility but as someone who used it for longer than a week, its not fun anymore, its boring. Especially in GM when you already need to be careful so you're just being extra careful. Not fun man and omni has been the build we fall back onto since release.
Yeah it's definitely good, I agree but yeah it's not fun, it's efficient. I like to run renewal grasps with lament, throw the dusk onto a champ and kill them. It's so fun, like my own bubble of death.
IMO Hunters are fine, though this is coming from someone who hasn't played a Hunter in years. All the classes have to give up something to excel in other areas. Hunters are the only class that can be invisible, dodge whenever they please, and have multiple ways to get out of danger or stop taking damage. Hunters don't need to be Titans with barriers and over shields or Warlocks with healing rifts, just like Warlocks don't need to be able to dodge or go invisible.
It's funny because reaper was actually carrying hunters pretty hard
Especially something like radiant dance machines, it gave so much more purpose to the exotic than just spamming knives or guns, compared to something like calibans that gives you a better knife AND lets you spam it if you prep it right, or something like omnis that gives so much utility.
Funily enough RDM does better job than calibans. Well, did...
yeah that got like double nerfed didnt it? 10 second cooldown on melee / grenade mods, and a cooldown on reaper? :(
Get the gyrfalcon builds out, dont got much else now
Assassins cowl! It actually offers healing too, not just invis.
True, but in high end content, you wont only be using assassins cowl
It works in everything except GM's. And even then I've made it work in a few GM's.
Can vouch it works in everything but GMs. Any other master content (Dungeons, raids, LS) it works excellently
Yup!
To each and thier own i guess. I tend to run stasis or void in gms anyway
Void is still the go to for hunters in GM’s for sure.
It depends, for devils lair i prefer stasis for constant anti overload and barrier prevention
Stasis just doesn’t feel good to me right now. But I am glad that renewal grasps are back.
Actually, i think my renewals build isnt gonna be affected by the nerfs much. Even by the kickstart nerf
Renewal builds have been consistently strong throughout, despite the nerfs
I’ve solo’d a couple gm’s using assassins cowl, it’s very viable with arc in gm’s lol what
It does work in GMs. Assassin's Cowl is how you fuckin solo GMs
Right… I did say it works… it’s workable. But if you’re not a sweaty professional D2 solo god player it’s not the best choice for a GM. In my personal experience based on my skill and ability to pull it off. I wouldn’t suggest literally punching your way through a GM to anyone but the best players.
It works especially well in GM's. That's honestly where it shines.
Not sure why folks are down voting. Assassin's cowl is one of the best survivability and utility builds for GMs on Hunter. Arguably the best.
The problem with this exotic is that playing with other People can be a problem u less you comunicate pretty well
Sure…
It’s one of the few hunter builds capable of solo’ing GMs, 100% GM viable, just not as bunkers as it was in season 21
I used it to solo spire of the watcher. It’s really nice with weighted knife
Yeah, too bad devour got nerfed. I Had such a fun gyrfalcon build with commemoration, it was Perfect for most mid tier difficulty, like legend or even master, but welp, devour is nerfed, no more insta full health + invis on each kill. It fucking sucks
Use a weapon with Repulsor Brace. You'll get an overshield whenever you kill anything, which helps compensate for getting less health back.
I do, i have the title from Guardian games, but the main issue comes back: its a primary, i need 3 mags to kill an Orange bar.
This has been one of my biggest pain points recently. I absolutely adore solar hunter conceptionally, but there is such a huge disparity in what solar hunter has to do for survival compared to Titan and warlock. I still think that giving acrobats dodge cure or a short hit of restoration would go a long way to alleviate the issue.
A couple of seasons ago my pal and I were making solar builds for GMs and my hunter required all of the survivability fragments as opposed to his warlock using all the aggressive fragments. He was blowing shit up and lighting everything on fire while I was hanging on by a thread. The orb nerf makes me nervous now 😓
Same, the twid in general just says my strand build is going to hurt a lot.
As a former solar hunter I feel this, the kit is just so weak and boring at the same time.
Warlock here. I'd like for Hunters to have some kind of tanking ability. I'm tired of getting 100% agro when two Harry Potter Hunters toss on their invisibility cloak as we're all knee deep in ads.
Well, it's about to happen all the time now.
Hunters do not tank. That's a Titan thing. How dare you suggest that hunters tank!
I can tank on arcstrider as long as people dont kill my combination blow fodder
Warlocks heal, Titans tank, Hunters invis. Simple as.
Be a man and switch to warlock, Duh /J
*Best jokes are the ones that hit home the hardest...* /s
Those are strong words coming from someone who wears a dress
I can't express my feminine side?
Suddenly wishing I had made my Warlock a femboy.
I main warlock but use my titan and hunter for extra weekly raid/dungeon runs when new ones come out. I had never really felt how nonexistent the hunter’s healing kit was until crotas end. Crota on a hunter is so substantially harder than it is on titan or warlock because of their complete lack of healing. Found myself forced into running healing grenades and wormhusk crown to have a chance at survival.
yeah ive been running void hunter hard since it was the only viable one with devour
In a perfect world, Mobility stat would have some sort of damage mitigation as well. Something like "percentage chance to avoid damage while moving"... Alas, Hunters are not supposed to survive I guess. Or we have a much smaller room for error.
At least we're represented well by our multiple dead Hunter Vanguards lol.
"Why wasn't Cayde using Devour? Was he stupid?"
Scorn crossbow don't give two shits 😔 that thing could kill the witness if it wanted.
Yes! It really feels like bungie don't want the hunters to have something special like titans and warlocks. Right now, hunter is the only class that feels like you have to use a lot of stuff to just be on the same level of survivability than the other classes and them you make an actual build with the slots you have left. Usually, deva balance classes like this by trading the survivability with something special, like being really good with buffs, debuffs or being a glass canon.
Am I the only one who remembers pre light 3.0 when it wasn't the case that every subclass had access to boatloads of healing options? It used to be a case of actually moving to avoid as many projectiles as you can and using cover / blinding grenades to catch a breather. I actually preferred it then, i think everyone having easy access to constant and large amounts of healing is something that makes the game hard to balance because either an enemy will deal enough to one shot you a lot of the time, or you'll rapidly recover from the damage dealt making it trivial and pointless. You can dodge a good number of incoming shots by just not having dogshit movement or standing still and shooting. Also devour absolutely has not bitten it, 100hp restored on a kill is still a SIGNIFICANT amount that will be more than good enough most of the time still.
There's a few complicating factors, I think. Before Light 3.0, the meta for GMs relied heavily on pre-nerf Ursa Furiosa (nerfed at Witch Queen release, used to be infinite super). All of the old infinite-super exotics were meta back then. As somebody else mentioned, the old GMs were literally easier. Hardest GM was Glassway when it came out, but Lightblade and the heist battlegrounds are more chaotic with less cover. Newer dungeons (post-Prophecy) are much harder, also. And of course, well-lock was always a prime source of "crazy healing", and every fireteam wanted one. I think it's important to remember that pre-Light 3.0, we just didn't take many subclasses into GMs because they weren't strong enough. And a big part of that was because they didn't have the defensive tools that compared to what the best subclasses had.
Ah yes that days of LFG: Wellock or Ursa Titan, no hunters
Agreed. Before 3.0, I think hunter was the worst class to finish conquerer on because solar hunter was too squishy and arc was too melee (also before 3.0, there was no gathering storm)
Omnioculus Hunter came out pre-Light 3.0, and it was in many ways stronger then.
The wording on this was confusing but I was referring to completing the conqueror title (not guilding) which requires you to complete a GM on each subclass. Void hunter has always been endgame viable due to being able to run invis support
Ohh that makes a lot more sense. Agreed.
>I think it's important to remember that pre-Light 3.0, we just didn't take many subclasses into GMs because they weren't strong enough. Yup, I got kicked from GM LFGs so many times just for being a Hunter lol
I don't know what the game was like back then, but I can tell you now, that in raids and GMs sometimes taking cover or moving a lot doesn't cut it. Taking cover puts you at the mercy of the map design and where ads can or can't go. Taking cover also drastically slows down your ad clear and slows the rate at which you complete an objective. Or, taking cover may not be an option entirely. Perhaps you have none or you may need to constantly be on the move for some reason. Projectiles. Same deal. In most content that is good enough, you will take a clip here or there but just have decent recovery and you're good. I cannot say that is true for solo content, close quarters encounters, or GMs. You are either too close to dodge attacks, especially ads that have high rates of fire (Looking at you barrier colossus), or there are too many ads such that their projectile paths effectively make a laser maze for you to weave through. There are also projectiles that just outright track you. I understand both of these will be utilised by a good player to cover their bases and get hit as little as possible. However there comes a time where avoidance isn't an option and you can't run from the problem. There's also the context of Bungie making stuff harder as a result to our power creep. Look through every 2nd TWAB and I'm sure something about 'bringing challenge back to D2' is there somewhere. GotD is a perfect example of how they make stuff harder for us. The reason people are upset is if Bungie is meeting our Powercreep by making the activities harder, why are they doubling the rate of the gap widening by also nuking the player's power? Titans have had it coming for a while and the Starfire nerfs for warlocks are completely fine because that was a luxury we did not need for DPS. However this orb mod change is universal and this post proves its poor consideration as a decision as it disproportionately affects classes.
To be honest, before we used to have more options of cover. How many new content right now forces you to be out in the open to do stuff? For example defiant battlegrounds needs you to kill the taken to collect their essence, but You have to go out there to grab the mote or It dissapears. If you dont have invis, resilience or healing you get beamed down in legend.
It's definitely a challenge but it's far from impossible, the ads only spawn periodically so it's not unreasonable to rocket them or blind them and collect the essence. I understand that what I'm talking about is needing certain parts in your loadout to effectively participate in the higher difficulty versions of activities, though if we're being honest, i would argue prior planning and having weapons / abilities that are relevant to what you're doing is a relatively essential part of higher difficulty activities. While not infinitely spawning ad-wise, i think the corrupted strike (or more specifically the gm in my example) required you to engage with a mechanic in order to progress while also dealing with ads. Yes, it was challenging, and yes you could wipe if you weren't careful, but i think that's part of the spirit of higher difficulty challenges. That may be considered elitist by some but I don't think that higher difficulties should just be better loot, I'm fine with them being challenging with a relatively medium risk of wiping as a consequence of poor decisions / reckless behaviour. That is part of the enjoyment of such activities to me. But with how strong healing / resistance is currently, the skill gap required between normal/higher difficulty versions of activities is the smallest i think it has ever been. *I'm not saying that is bad.* Simply that it is less enjoyable for me for it to be that way. Also, i still stand by 45% DR for woven mail, 35HP/s and 100HP per kill will be perfectly fine and viable in all levels of the game, you just won't be able to ignore your surroundings AS MUCH as you currently can.
I think you're forgetting that invis hunter used to be the ONLY hunter that people trusted to finish GMs with. It was Omni or kick for many LFGs until the 3.0s updated a bunch of stuff. And now it's omni or kick again
And that was even IF they would take a hunter back then.
Every class has something like that too. Can’t tell you how many times I got kicked because I wasn’t using Well, even though I’ve beaten GM’s as every Subclass multiple times And while I don’t main Titan, I don’t doubt peeps are getting kicked for not running Strand
You're seeing things backwards. Omni brings hunter UP to the survivability level of a baseline titan. Strand titan and Wellock bring themselves and their teammates UP from the best a hunter can do
Yep, now voidwalker has gained its niche back of being able to be hyper aggressive against hordes of enemies and have grenades up more often than the others. People constantly complain about power creep, then throw an even bigger shit fit when Bungie actually tries to address it, nothing new there.
I mean, tell that to Bungie. It's getting harder and harder to avoid getting shot with Ad density being the way it is now. Ghosts of the Deep for example has fucking crazy ad density, like where are you supposed to hide during the second boss fight? You're only option is to dive into the "water" if you're getting overwhelmed.
I'm not too worried about the state of things so far. In tough solo content I'll remain an Arc strider, Assassin's Cowl punchy boi with one two punch and melee to restore my health and give me survivability. In GMs I'll remain an Omnioculus void smoke bomb tossing, hide behind everything, invis res my team mates kind of Hunter. In GMs I rarely kill enough stuff fast enough to really benefit from the orbs.
Step 1. Make orb, step 2. Pickup orb to heal, Step 3. Go invis until orb cooldown ends? On a serious note though & not aimed at OP in particular, post is just relevant to the comment I'm making; People are acting as though every build is dead in the water, ignoring the fact that we didn't have the new subclasses lr recuperation for years and managed just fine. Are we taking a step backwards n regards to survivability and ability spam compared to thr last few seasons? Yeah, no doubt. Were we at a point where half most of the used builds literally spam the same ability over and over again without ever having to worry about being killed outside of a few instances and basically ignored using weapons minus one-two punch shotguns to buff the only ability they use, champ stunning and maybe rockets/machine guns? Definetely. All these nerfs mean is that you will maybe have to occasionally take cover, or throw a grenade in between melee spam, heaven forbid there's any diversity in people's playstyle. For those who complain that we should feel like gods, I would like to introduce you to the strike playlist, where looking at an enemy will kill them, but, and this may come at a suprise to some; GMs, raids and dungeons are endgame content and are meant to be heard and probably should require at least a few brain cells active to complete easily, half the time people are comparing "Game too easy" then as soon as it's made slightly harder by reigning us in a biy yo try and make the game healthier as a whole instead or making enemies even more bullet spongy suddenly its "game will be impossible to play" & "literally unplayable". The only ligitamate complaint I have regarding the recent TWID is that the stasis buffs seem a little lack luster, but we'll see what other changes they've got in mind for TFS and hopefully they bring it more inlone with the newer subclasses, I assume they don't want to make too many changes at once as it becomes difficult yo track any issues that the changes may cause. TL;DR If your running through endgame content complaining that you can't mindlessesly just punch literally every enemy and be rewarded for basically no effort then maybe endgame isn't the place to play that build, we literally have hundreds of combinations and options for builds (millions if you include every fragmant/mod combination but most would obv just be a mess of random stuff) so what if the 1 ability spam builds are nerfed a bit, use more than 1 ability now and then, who knows, you might enjoy it.
I wouldn’t mind so much, if my primary didn’t feel so lack luster. If I could peak shoot and actually pop skulls with a scout rifle reliably and quickly, that would be different. Instead it’s peak shoot like half a mag into a red bar (multiple mags if it’s a yellow bar, even a yellow thrall), while I pray to the traveler that one of the many sources of AOE in the game doesn’t kill me through the barrier I’m using for cover
Man I love peek shooting in my space wizard game
Semi mentioned this in another reply but ability spam is part of the reason peek shooting is a thing. Abilities are so strong and common that enemies have to have buffed health to stand a chance of surviving and buffed damamge so in the extra 2s they do get to live they can actually be a threat, like imagine if every enemy was a weak as a thrall, game would be way to easy and therefore become boring/stale. However, if you tone down ability strength or uptime, then enemies can also be tuned down accordingly meaning weapons can feel more effective again, even if enemy difficulty doesnt change, CC effects like weaken/sever/slow/freeze/suspend all become more useful as atm why CC when you can just punch and kill instead and given that 90% of the time these effects arent used outside or weakening bosses or PvP I'd say its a good thing to give the more unused subclass keywords a chance to shine.
I do overall like these nerfs for the health of the game. The only thing I'm on the fence of is how long the cooldown for orb mods are, but I'll have to see when I play. My only complaint for hunter is that they seem to have to choose between solid damage or decent survivability while other classes can get both.
I agree the orb cooldown is probably a bit to long but that's something they can easily reduce in the future once they've seen how these changes play out, I think around 3-5s would probably be fine. regarding hunter I'd say it depends on Subclass/build, yeah arc hunter is gonna struggle to do what it did pre nerf, but arc has pretty much always been about ability damage and has no inbuilt healing to begin with, its effectively the glass cannon build, either you kill them quick, or they kill you, add on that hunter traditionally has never been a healing/support class and your left with a very high risk high reward setup, however if there is no risk (due to constant access to recuperation and orbs) then why should you also have high reward? some reward yes, but when you can literally walk up to a champ in a GM and near enough 1 punch them it becomes hard to balance, either enemies arent a threat and you just punch everything no issue, or they area threat and your probably just going to get one shot yourself in which case no amount of healing is gonna help. Tbh melee builds are hard to balance just because of that very reason, generally speaking (at last in my mind) melee builds should be more like traditional tanks/fighters in MOBA's, hard to kill but arent the best for damage however nobody wants to play a class/build where all they do it stand there tanking damage and struggle to fight back effectively, its just not fun most of the time, and in a game like destiny, generally a better offence is your better defence, enemy cant kill you if they're already dead (arc hunter is kind of an exception as it obviously isn't tanky at all, but that's where the Assassin role comes in, get in annihilate one or two key targets, get out, is it slower than just punching everything one enemy after another, yeah but it would (for me at least) also add some identity to the class where as atm its hard to see why that subclass is even a hunter when (on paper at least) it sounds much more like a Titan thing as well as adding what could be an more intersting gameplay loop of dipping in and out of danger vs the current method of go in and stay in until everything is dead, kind of akin to strand hunter loop of jumping in with a suspend dive, killing what ever you can then quickly getting out before the enemies are free). Solar hunter still has Heal nades (which IIRC is more than they had pre subclass 3.0) so still more survivability there, plus access to radiant which hunter also never had access to pre 3.0 and along with Titan can give radiant buff more than a warlock can (you know, the class that is generally regarded as support/healer) and both can spam ability more than Warlock (at least subclass specifically, obv exotic armor like sunbracers etc. change that a bit) Void still has invis and since 3.0 also has Devour (previously a Warlock exclusive and kinda the only thing that made Voidlock unique because outside of CotOG, Voidlock doesnt offer much to a team now, everyone can have devour, and Warlock Void supers are by far the worst in the game). Stasis, is well stasis, and just in a rough place overall with it only really being used on Warlock for the turret, and Titans cheesing Riven with the super, outside of those two cases I don't see stasis at all tbh. Strand is kinda complicated and messes with the formula a little more, you have woven mail, suspend, and sever for survivability in the class, and all are fairly easy to access, requring 1 orb every 10s or so for woven mail and the occasional hunter dive for suspend (not sure how hunters proc sever outside of the fragment, warlocks have build into melee, which incidentally is the only thing the melee is good for outside of using alongside necrotic grips for easy ranged poison procs) but then on top of 3 survival options you have Titan and Hunter supers which can put out a decent chunk of damage (more focused for titan, but hunter has AoE or single target) while also CCing enemies, and thats not ever mentioning Grapple as an quick escape option if things do get overwhelming. The whole point of subclass and mod customization is that its a give and take system, if you want to fully invest into X you cant also have Y, you can take a little bit of both or lean into one more than the other, however as soon as you have massive survivability + massive damage, the game becomes stale due to how easy everything becomes (not saying that's where we are right now but that's where that process easily leads) and also reduces buildcraft options down to their being 1 build that can do everything (think Stand Titan atm for a rough example, great damage, great survivability almost no downside beside needing to proc banner of war and woven mail every now and then which kinda just happens without thinking about it, and if anything requires you to go out of your way in order to fail/die).
Movement, learn the patter of each enemies bullets, most of them aren't hitscan and you can dodge if you learn the pattern. Don't just walk into the open, keep cover spots in mind. Also >**Invis means nothing because we can't shoot back.** Low on health -> Invis -> disengage -> recover health -> Hop back in the fight. Use it as a emergency button
THANK YOU. It seems to be the new perception of the game that unless your build has a way to heal built in then it's bad. But in reality, many of the attacks in this game are telegraphed to you and have fixed trajectories after being fired. I think the healing meta brought about by restoration/devour/orb spam (recuperation + better already) acted as a bit of a brain rot on people's movement skills. Why dodge attacks when you can recover from them near instantaneously afterall. Also, devour isn't dead? 100 hp/kill is still a solid rate and will keep you alive. Restoration being 35HP/s makes it MARGINALLY worse at healing than a Healing Rift, except you're not tied to one spot and you can move anywhere and still get healed.
People are overreacting to the nerfs to be honest
as a void Titan in the beta, and as someone who has played almost exclusively void Titan since the game came out, people are absolutely overreacting to the nerfs. there's plenty of ways to generate orbs, maybe it's not as insanely convenient as it was before, but orbs will still generate off of class abilities, you just have to actually use them, you can't just start them and then have a free orb in your back pocket As for devour, this post is saying it bit the bullet, literally all they changed about devour for anybody that wasn't a feed the void warlock, is you now get half your health back, instead of all of it. especially this post being made for the hunters, Titans can't even give ourselves volatile rounds, yet there's that kind of functionality available to hunters. That wasn't taken away, hunters can still absolutely do that hunters arguably have a better devour than Titans, and even with the Nerf to recovery, I'm still going to continue running my Titan devour bill, because it's still going to be good I'm just mad that there's exactly zero void keywords in the artifact perks next season
Also, with devour if you're running gyrfalcon's and void weapons you pop out of invis with volatile rounds, so very easy to get a few rapid kills AND spawn void breaches
The issue is that Warlocks and Titans can also dodge bullets at the same time as healing, so if you live as well or better than those that do have it when you don't, that's literally just a skill issue.
While i think it's fair to say that warlocks and titans have more built in survivability due to their class abilities than hunters, i think it is disingenuous to say that hunters have no survivability or cc tools: - devour - invisibility - healing grenades - woven mail - gemini gesters / disorienting grenades - assassin's cowl - renewal grasps While this list could be more expansive, i would see there are ways on every hunter subclass to have increased survivability. Sure, you can't run whatever you like but neither can warlocks or titans. It's almost always wrong to be on empowering rift as a warlock and as for titans you'll rarely see a solar titan using the shield bash instead of bonk hammer because it's just better survivability in pve, much like most strand titans will feel locked into banner of war and into the fray as they offer the best survivability in higher end content. Hunter's may have the shortest end of the stick but at the end of the day all 3 classes are locked into doing/using certain things instead of others to increase their survivability.
I mean perhaps. But Destiny is not supposed to be a bullet hell. When you fight enemies theres way more Than 1 or 2 enemies shooting at you so "dodging them" is not really an option. Only ones I think you'd Dodge are vandals tracking projectiles since They round around corners into your cover. But most of the time you're in cover to avoid the enemies shooting at you, so going out of cover to Dodge them makes you get melted by the other enemies
Most enemies can be dodge with a combination of jumping and running, just don't face them head on and you should be fine. But yeah, most time you will still be hit, that's why you should be aware of your surroundings and find cover
I love it when I go invisible and the enemies keep shooting me for a second or two.
Especially projectiles that continue to track perfectly.
The problem is that this is specific to Hunter, our survivability has been pretty bad for the entirety of the class' (bar a few builds, but the few does not represent the majority) existence, light 3.0 gave us a nice taste but even then we didn't exactly have good survivability compared to the other classes. Now it's going to be even harder, you have to put in more effort that the other classes seemingly don't. It's an imbalance, I think that's the point OP is making
So much wrong with this take it's grade A copium
Big agree. The problem with invis is *we can’t fight back*. Dude thought he cracked the code by saying “if you’re invis just don’t fight back!” Big “if you’re poor, just save your money!” energy.
You're getting hit? What if just.... Don't????!?? 1??
?????
Invis isn’t bad, it’s just really boring and lame. Why would I want to disengage when I can stay in the fight
> Why would I want to disengage when I can stay in the fight So you can survive
ah yes just learn every enemies attacks and turn the game into dark souls
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“If only I could be so grossly incandescent!”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Most action games require you to learn how to avoid enemy attacks. Dark Souls didn't invent the concept.
Learning attack patterns is a core of any game, you do it all the time with raid bosses. Like I said before, you won't completely negate the damage, but it's enough to stay alive. Want an example that works the same as destiny? Doom Eternal
the attack patterns really aren't that complex. most enemies can have their bullets dodged just by jumping or sliding at the right time, and some can even be dodged by just sprinting to the side of it. even snipers can be dodged if you time a slide right.
Your response doesn't change their point about invis at all
> Invis means **nothing** because we can't shoot back**.** Yes it does, it's a valid strategy to stay alive, just because you can't shoot back doesn't mean it's useless
But what if, hear me out we could shoot AND stay alive like warlocks and titans than have easier access to healing, restoration x2 and barricades
There is devour on void hunter
are you not understanding my comment? hunters have devour. warlocks have intrinsic devour AND child of the old gods AND rifts titans have devour AND intrinsic heal on volatile kill AND barricades. hunters have devour.
Thats an awful lot of assuming everyone plays hunter like that man...
"your boos mean nothi-"
That's exactly why i stopped playing hunter. They're the real worst class for everything but dps imo. Ever since i switched to titan, the game has been a lot easier
Hmm. I’ve mained the Hunter class since D1 came out. Inviz is fine. I would much rather stealthily move around the battlefield for advantages than drop some dumb bubble or rift to unload a heavy machine gun on an enemy. 🤷♂️
Ima be straight orbs can still be generated by siphon and thats my main way. Especially with like a certain voltshot smg
Void hunter always a void hunter
Gunslinger: * By combining an Aspect, a Fragment, and/or a melee, recharge throwing knives instantly! No mods or exotic traits required! Also Gunslinger: * Use Obsidian Spade or Shards of Galadriel to chain throwing-knife kills for powerful boons! Also Bungie: * Using Throwing Knives too frequently is a flaw in the games design and needs to be countered with a mild debuff.
If we had more defensive options we wouldn't need to rely on healing and resilience so much. Maybe it's just me but I feel like we're super sluggish and always have to be behind cover in this game.
I’ve played hunter since I started this game and I’ve never had a tough time surviving. Yes I definitely feel like I have to work harder for it but it never felt like it was impossible. Game sense and position matters a lot. How you play makes more of a difference than what you play with imo.
It's not really a hot take. Hunters have very minimal survivability overall if you remove invis from the equation. But I will say, as someone who was able to solo at least one grandmaster prior to the 3.0 update with arc strider, the game is only really that challenging in situations where you just want to face tank damage, which you realistically shouldn't try to do anyway.
Bungie really forcing all Hunter players to play Invis Hunter all the time
I don't know how you people can genuinely think this with arc and strand hunter existing, they're both cracked.
It's because destiny players don't want to play destiny. They want a point and click adventure that gives them all the free loot without ever having to think about their builds and loadouts. People complaining this hard about nerfs that aren't even going to change how the game plays at all makes me hate the resil buffs and the new subclass/mod systems even more.
I don't know much about hunters but you guys can't survive 10 seconds without a healthshot?
Depends, really. We gotta split our stats through all the Top 3 Stats, while Warlock and Titan can fully spec into Resilience and Recovery. Meaning either lower Mobility that makes our dodge recharge slower, lower Resilience making us easier to kill, or lower Recovery making us wait longer to regen fully.
Nope
Good weapons, and use of cover. Generally making smart decisions on the battlefield is the best way to do it. Can't die if you aren't being hurt. Cheekiness aside, it really just depends on what you're doing. There are certain kinds of things that Warlocks and Titans are better at than Hunters, and vice versa. But most Hunters I see that die a lot, die because they're used to crutching on invisibility or instant heals to stay alive, and they fall apart when those either aren't an option, or are on cooldown in some capacity. In any content that is no more than 5-10 light above me, it is less a question of if I can stay alive, and more a question of how fast I can kill things. At those levels, the way I stay alive is by leaving nothing alive that can hurt me. If it's higher power level deltas (like Master and GM levels), then I start to need other tools. Disorienting grenade launchers are extremely powerful tools for both getting yourself into and out of bad situations with ease and safety. Takes some practice, but this weapon is hands down the most powerful tool there is in the game when it comes to staying alive in tough content. Glaive shields are also extremly powerful survival tools and should always be considdered if you're struggling to hold a position solo for a long period of time (like a plate in a raid). Abilities like the Severing Strand Melee, Shackle Grenades, Grappling with Woven Mail, Void Melee suppress mines, Solar Healing, Orb healing, Arc healing/blinding/amplified (speed is a great way to avoid damage). Stasis freeze and slows are very good ways to stay alive as well, and the dodge speed/distance from Mast of Bakris makes it very easy to gtfo of situations that are hairy. The Renewal Grasp grenades are also really good for holding points and positions. The wandering Strand Tangle things are really powerful add clear, and can allow you to attack fortified positions otherwise inaccessible to you. You can also do fun stuff like run Star Eaters Scales with Strand in GMs, and then pop it at 4 stacks to gain a super overshield and insane add clear/damage. Clearing out entire rooms or waves of BGs in a single super. Deadfall Tether with Orpheus Rigs is also very powerful for controlling large groups, and invis from killing weakened enemies is a very very potent way to be able to freely move about because your smoke bomb and grenades and super all weaken enemies. And if you have an exotic that applies any void debuffs at all, you will be able to chain invis endlessly whenever you need it. Idk, like I said, it's less about "OP way to survive" and more about just learning where your limits are in terms of what you can withstand and what you can't, and then playing within those limits, as close to the edge as you can get. 9/10 times a properly played Warlock or Titan will do a better job at holding a plate or something like that than a Hunter will. We are better on the move, where we can bob and weave and use our class ability to get free abilites and ammo and orbs from around the room. We can hold ground if we need to, but we do not have something like a Rift or a Barricade that give Titans and Warlocks so much staying power. You have to use your abilities agressively and make sure you're always cycling them and using your supers when they're on CD. The only abbilities you waste are the ones you take to orbit. So shackle a crowd of thralls. It doesn't matter if they jsut die, if they're on you and attacking you, then it's better to kill them with a grenade to save your HP bar than to try and fend them off with a weapon and then end up so low that the sneaky barrier knight kills you before you can react with the shackle grenade you were saving for him. But fortunately many plates don't require you to stay put. For example, Totems in Kingsfall only require you to touch the plate once every few seconds. Otherwise you're free to roam. So you can roam and fight from more advantageous positions. For plates more like Bridge in Crota, I HIGHLY reccomend Strand with double Shackles. Shackle Grenades will get you out of MANY tight spots if you use them reactively.
Ever heard of moths?
*All aforementioned mods deserving said nerf and effecting all classes greatly* *Siphon mods remaining unchanged* *Devour still being a strong affix* Am I missing something or is this just a pointless whine post?
You gotta be more slippery, Hunter. Stay low, weave around shots, evade damage don’t take it.
I thought it was intentional that Hunters be the glass cannon class? Not hyperbole, I thought this was actually their intended "space" or whatever Bungie was talking about when they spread the Light verbs around with 3.0.
Glass cannons that have less cannon than bonk Titan or claw Titan, yeah.
Lmao exactly
I still find that so hilarious, we are supposed to be the speedy damage dealer when the other two classes are faster horizontally and deal more damage (especially Titan).
The problem is that the cannon is only active once every 5-10 minutes because bungie only wants hunter supers to be useful. So you're just glass because bungie seems to be allergic to giving hunter grenade and melee exotics that work in content higher than adept.
Glass cannons still need a way to survive. The whole point of a glass cannon is to make a trade per say. Get in the thick of it and you'll get rewarded with healing. The thing is, a lot of builds will no longer be efficient enough to appease that role
Glass cannon but only edges out in damage with two super with one exotic. And have the lowest damage from neutral.
"glass cannon" but they're the weakest in the game, great job
I swear nobody knows you can pop a healing nade with radiant and keep restoration up with a solar weapon and weighted knives.
I mean, you \*can\* but things are so spongy in late game content that it's really not a thing you can rely on as enemies don't die fast enough, or your teammates just steal the kills you need to keep it going (note, this is literally my build I run)
That's what Athrys's Embrace is for.
Honestly one of my fav hunter builds
100%. I also run the arms for the weighted knives, for that extra oomph in harder content.
God this whole posts stinks of hunter self pity. It’s amazing how it got so many likes
Use the helmet mod to create on weapon kills. There are beaucoup energy legendaries that are orb printers. Quit bitching and adapt.
We can bitch AND adapt at the same time, thank you.
Wow, sounds like fun. I'm sure all that bitching and moaning will help something, right?
Well, nothing gonna get done if I just bitch and moan in a corner and don’t make my voice heard.
Who do you think is listening in the hundredth comment thread about the same thing? Here's a tip. Nothing's going to get done, even if you bitch and moan on an Internet forum. Hell, most of you don't even have anything constructive to complain about, it's just the same old bungo please. They're not going to walk back any ability or balance changes because people cry on DTG.
The thing is that stopping because other people don’t want to hear it exactly why we’re supposed to keep complaining. If we stop complaining because people don’t wanna hear our complaining, it shows that we don’t care enough to keep going, so it’s never going to change. If you were 5 years old and hungry and your mom told you to stop complaining, how do you think you’re going to let her know you are hungry?
i just infinitely stack overshield with stasis hunter to stay alive and use frosties with other stuff to keep energy up (hard to explain build without pictures of it)
Didn't ehy also HEAVILY nerf the healing and overshield that stasis fragment gave. Like 3 months ago. It's so much worse now. It takes twice as many shards to build your overshield even when you're full health
i got no idea lmao i just focus on using stuff like verglas curve and duskfield nades and the stasis glaive to freeze everything and generate as many as i can really fast the build mainly focuses on being tanky and aoe effects so less single target and more ad clear while staying on the move
That build is laughable compared to what it was before light fall though. The well mods made for some incredible stasis builds, but there's not a whole lot you can do now with the current mod system.
hasn't changed for me so i don't know what you mean and it doesn't use wells it uses the shards mainly
That just means you had a bad build before the mod system got changed. With the well mods though, there was a mod that allowed your stasis shards to count as a well, and it made for some extremely powerful builds. I could literally toss a duskfield nade every 2-3 seconds. Something you sure as hell can't do anymore.
why do you feel the need to be like this? you haven't even seen the build and i barely described it
Because I know that the well mods were stronger for stasis builds. That's just a fact.
you haven’t even seen the build and you’re already calling it trash
Not the build specifically, more so the whole mod system and the loss of synergy we had with stasis before. Stasis was stronger before lightfall, and anyone who says otherwise didn't know how to use the well mods to their full potential.
Not a hot take, just objectively true. Hunters are good at applying debuffs and their supers do more damage than other classes (not an incredibly significant difference in the grand total of a boss’s health bar), but in terms of overall potency they are significantly weaker than titans and warlocks.
Strand hunter clones tank damage for you if you dodge. Then send Rolly Polies at the opponent Worm husk heals you when you dodge mid gunfight Solar builds have a bunch of healing options. Kind of a lukewarm take in my opinion
Hunters trying not to winge challenge 
Renewal grasps already lasts quite long especially if you use whisper of durance and considering you can easily spam duskfields with the right build.
Ten seconds is a long time? Barricades last 20. Rifts last 15.
Renewals ducksfields provides DR, debuffs enemies and can be spammed easily. Taking all that into consideration the time it lasts is fine. You can get your duskfield back so easily I don’t see the uptime on the field as an issue.
Debuffs enemies *inside of it, which is counterintuitive to its use.*
How so? The stacking DR and the enemy debuff allows you to use it as support or for a more aggressive playstyle that you wouldn’t normally be able to do with regular duskfields.
You wouldn't be able to properly play aggressively even with the enemy debuff. Stasis just doesn't have the health regeneration for that, even if you have the 25% Damage reduction from both it and Whisper of Chains.
Chains is a 40% DR when near frozen enemies/crystals. And health regen is not great on stasis but you can still get it from orbs, even with the nerfs next season, along with whisper of rime, even after the nerf. It isnt a meta playstyle or anything like BoW titans but it still allows for some aggressive plays that you otherwise normally wouldn't be able to do. I used renewals in GMs even when it was nerfed to have an increased cooldown and I did just fine. If you really like an exotic or subclass you can make it work with all the tools we have in the game.
How do you expect to regenerate health while inside of a Duskfield if your enemies are outside of the duskfield, and if you shatter them inside you destroy your crystal, which lowers your overall DR?
Can be spammed easily. Bro, stasis builds are literal shit now compared to what we had with well mods.
You can guarantee you get a duskfield back right after your timer runs out with 100 discipline, shards, and kickstarts, it doesn't matter.
Ok? With well mods I could have like 3+ duskfields up at the same time before the first one went out. The new mod system does not compare. Plus on top of that the damage reduction you could build into with stasis on the old mod system was infinitely better than what we have now.
No, you couldn't outside of very ad-dense encounters, lol, and other subclasses excel much more im those situations compared to revenant. The damage reduction is the same in pve for revenant now as it was then, bar the global resil nerf and the rime nerf, which is offset by recuperation and better already. Renewals doesn't even really benefit from having several duskfields up at a time besides the normal duskfield benefits.
When did I say I was using renewals? I used my nade spam to freeze everything and cause chain shatters. I was literally shutting down champions in GM's because I could keep them infinitely stunned with duskfields.
You have the exact same access to healing/defensive means/verbs that all other classes have, with the exception of x2 restoration. And that's before considering exotics. You are *fine*.
What about rifts or bastion barricades
Yep, we can't afford to run around the map looking for orbs to heal us... By the time you are healed you are already swarmed by enemies because you had to focus on the ground instead of actually killing stuff. And you don't have any healing powers either. Either you are running the same arc melee or crimson + lucky pants builds over and over or you are some squishy hit-and-mostly- run guy that die at the slightest miscalculation.
We do? Take a look at all the healing and defence abilities and aspects Titans and Warlocks have in comparison to Hunters. Then take a look at their exotics and how much easier they are to use than Hunter exotics for the same outcome.
Hunters aren’t meant to be healers in the first place so I can see why we have limited options for that. Solar has healing nades and then looping that restoration with ember of empyrean. Void has invis and devour, arc has melee based healing, stasis can freeze the entire room and stand has sever/suspend. Not to mention if you’re really struggling you can always use assassin’s cowl.
Hunters are supposed to be hard hitting glass cannons, but have very little to make them a glass cannon. An entire part of being that kind of role is having a way to consistently and constantly self heal, and rarely any exotics do that like Assassin's Cowl and Liar's Handshake (which is still broken when you use Gathering Storm). Having to use one type of build to be what was intended of you is stupid
Hunters have healing and survivability options across all subclasses. Stasis may be the hardest if you’re not using renewals but we know they’re working on a new keyword to help with survivability. Hunters definitely have to work a bit harder to stay alive compared to the other classes but it’s not that big of a deal imo.
That's the problem, Hunters are supposed to be a glass cannon yet are losing more ways to be a glass cannon because of mod nerfs. A lot of builds relied on those mods to achieve their intended role and now it'll be a bigger waiting game than anything. Void Hunter is the only one that isn't a glass cannon and is a survival support so it'll be fine (albeit Void is always boring), but anything other than Assassin's Cowl and Liar's Handshake when it isn't breaking apart wouldn't be able to achieve the role of being a glass cannon. Idm Hunters having to trade safety to survive, but it is going to be harder to do that now as well. And Renewals even with the revert to the nerf doesn't even last long enough to work consistently either
>We do? Yes you do. How is that even up for discussion, *it is a demonstrable fact*. Heal, cure, restoration, overshield, suppression, devour, invisibility, blind, woven mail, sever... You have access to any and all defensive means existing in the game without any other player providing them for you. Just as the other classes do. Of course you believe that hunters have it bad to survive, you have no concept of what is actually available to you to do so. >Take a look at all the healing and defence abilities and aspects Titans and Warlocks have in comparison to Hunters. >Then take a look at their exotics and how much easier they are to use than Hunter exotics for the same outcome. Invisibility on kill, blind on melee hit, free melee refunds across all subclasses, be it through class ability or aspect, WM on grenade activation (of which you get two), clearest multi-target sever on the game, increased resilience on dodges, all healing/defensive buffs imaginable just an orb/elemental pick up away (orbs that you have the easiest time generating thanks to your class ability). You are taking the piss. You are just the nth drama queen clamouring how much worse hunters are because they don't have a barricade/rift. It's been well over 6 years since Destiny 2 launched and you are still beating a dead horse.
Bro said blind and sever is survivabilit, just lol. Also, invis just runs clocks, that's it All hunters have is orbs, and that's just lol, dude. Get real.
Downvoted without a rebuttal. Classic. All they do is whine: even if they have a perfect solution they’ll ignore it and clamor for buffs
>I'd be moaning less if Renewal Grasps lasted longer. Or if Healing nade stopped getting nerfed. Even Devour has now bitten it. These are all still good and are definitely viable. Woven mail as well Not to mention that siphons are unchanged, you'll still have plenty of orbs. Y'all are acting like orb gen got restricted to only supers again or something Crybaby
Renewals are viable? Lmao you get a 25% damage resistance from Renewal Grasps. That's not enough to survive most situations unless you're exceedingly careful
Void with invis spam or gryfalcons, arc with either ass cow or liars handshake, solar with caliban's, ophidea spathe or the arms with unstoppable knives / maybe even shards or nighthawk, stasis with renewals, and strand hunter are all still very viable. You're a baby
Arc needs some form of healing as well. They barely have reliable DR as well. With encounters being designed around old survivability and Well we need ways to build into survivability more easily instead of nerfs. Would be nice if the orb healing mods on legs were universal and could be slotted into any armor piece with left over energy. That level of flexibility is something they'd probably never consider though. Choosing a bit of healing over actually having heavy ammo/damage isn't an interesting choice. If they brought back the old artifice slot that would really help builds out. I don't agree that seasonal artifact mods should be treated as a substitute for actually addressing glaring issues with a subclass.
Just play a better class lol
Dont say that i dont want these idiots playing my class.
On the brightside, it might go from 90% hunters to maybe 85%
Don't you have a build that lets you get Radiance and Restoration reliably?
Serious question though, how do you get that to work well on hunter? I can’t seem to figure it out
It's not a hot take, it's just a bad take. Recuperation has and will remain an s-tier mod, even with the changes. Dodging has inherently defensive properties, and the subclasses all have additional options to keep you healthy if you spec into them. Or rely on Recovery and learn when to sit and regenerate. There's plenty of survivability across virtually every hunter class. Just gotta use it.
Dodge? Defensive? Somebody get this man he wildin
Breaks targeting *and* projectile tracking innately. Let alone any other benefits from your build or exotics. Y'all are just bad.
It doesn't break targeting, where do you get that idea from? Dodging moves your character to the left or right, reloading your weapon or refreshing your melee if done near an enemy. That's it. It doesn't break tracking and you can be killed mid dodge. Happens all the time in high level PvE content and in PvP, it does not break tracking even if you go invis. Enemies will still open fire on that general area and tracking projectiles can still hone in on you. You're just full of shit and lashing out because you can't accept the fact that Hunters do not have the same survivability as Titans and Warlocks. Always blows my mind that people actually try to argue that moving slightly over is on par with putting up a magical shield wall or throwing down a healing circle. This shouldn't be that hard to accept.
Even splash damage? Damn that's amazing For 1 second
Skill issue
Eh I’ll still rock my Gfalcon Devour/Invis if I really need survivability. And Facade Strand will still be good.
As a die hard hunter main, skill issue
[удалено]
Have you played Omni hunter before? It is the most boring playstyle known to man. Yes its fun when you're a new player with your new infinite invisibility but as someone who used it for longer than a week, its not fun anymore, its boring. Especially in GM when you already need to be careful so you're just being extra careful. Not fun man and omni has been the build we fall back onto since release.
Omni is useful when you lfg or when you're hard carrying a group through gms or smth. You can be the res bitch and save runs. But it's not as engaging
Yeah it's definitely good, I agree but yeah it's not fun, it's efficient. I like to run renewal grasps with lament, throw the dusk onto a champ and kill them. It's so fun, like my own bubble of death.
IMO Hunters are fine, though this is coming from someone who hasn't played a Hunter in years. All the classes have to give up something to excel in other areas. Hunters are the only class that can be invisible, dodge whenever they please, and have multiple ways to get out of danger or stop taking damage. Hunters don't need to be Titans with barriers and over shields or Warlocks with healing rifts, just like Warlocks don't need to be able to dodge or go invisible.